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OT: Chronic pain

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Luna - 23 Mar 2004 17:10 GMT
I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down
the side of my neck to the bottom of my right shoulder blade. It hurts all
the time.  OTC meds don't do a damn thing for it.  I haven't sought
treatment because I thought it was related to being so heavy, having that
extra strain on my neck from the excess weight in my front, but now I am
much closer to "normal" weight and the pain hasn't diminished at all.  

When I was learning how to do some stretches using this thing at the Y
(don't know what it's called, it's some sort of stretching device made of
bars with different places to put your feet and arms depending on which
stretch you're doing) the instructor had me do this crossed arm stretch,
and said "You should feel this in your right shoulder blade" and I said I
did, then he said to cross my arms the other way and I should feel it in
the left, and I said "I still feel it in the right", and he said "Well,
there's something wrong with you then."

So that got me thinking maybe this isn't from being overweight, maybe it
has something to do with that car wreck I was in back in 1999.  
Unfortunately I didn't document when the pain started, so it could be
something else entirely.  

No particular exercise or stretch makes it any better or worse, the only
thing that makes it worse is if I turn my head too fast, then it gets
really sharp for a second and goes back to the normal dull ache.

So I was wondering if anyone here had neck, back, or shoulder pain, and
what they did to fix it. Should regular massages do the trick? Or is
chiropracty a good option?  I'm wary of chiropracty, I've heard that it's a
quack pseudo science.   I don't have a regular doctor other than my gyno.  
And I also don't have insurance or a lot of money, so if you know of
anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
help, that would also be greatly appreciated.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Marcusj - 23 Mar 2004 17:54 GMT
Michelle,
I have had a chronic pain that is almost exactly like what you describe for
many years.
Like yours, mine *might* be related to a car crash from several years ago,
*might* be related to bad posture, who knows.
At first, I went to my regular doctor, and he gave me cortisone injections
in the muscles of my neck and upper back.  They eased the pain, but I really
didn't want to continue that for the rest of my life, so looked elsewhere.
I went to chiropractors, they practiced their voodoo, but I don't really
think it helped.

After trying many things, I finally found something that helps TREMENDOUSLY.
It is called the "McKenzie method".
You can read about it here:
http://www.mckenziemdt.org/

Here is a simple way to find out if the McKenzie method will work for you,
and this might actually be all you need to do:
Your public library probably has one of these books,
"7 Steps to a Pain-Free Life: How to Rapidly Relieve Back and Neck Pain"
or
"Treat Your Own Neck"
  by Robin McKenzie

Check one out, or if not available at your library they can be bought
cheaply used on Amazon.
Do the 7 exercises for the neck for a couple of weeks, and see if you have
relief.

You might be amazed, I was!

Mark.

> I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
> the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
> help, that would also be greatly appreciated.
Luna - 23 Mar 2004 18:27 GMT
Thanks!  I will definitely look at those books.  This might be just what I
need.

> Michelle,
> I have had a chronic pain that is almost exactly like what you describe for
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> > anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
> > help, that would also be greatly appreciated.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Nancy 8 03 - 23 Mar 2004 18:30 GMT
I have bad back pain from a car accident. I thought to it would get
better after a lost some weight. I've lost 80 pounds with no noticeable
improvement. I still have a long way to go before I'm at goal I hope my
back will be better then but I don't know if it will.
revek - 23 Mar 2004 18:59 GMT
Luna  burbled across the ether:
> So I was wondering if anyone here had neck, back, or shoulder pain,
> and what they did to fix it.

Building up the muscles on my lower back helped relieve the pain a lot,
but it's still damaged and will always be a weak link and easily trigger
pain again if I try to be too flexible (no limbo dancing for me).

Should regular massages do the trick? Or
> is chiropracty a good option?  I'm wary of chiropracty, I've heard
> that it's a quack pseudo science.

I also heard the worst horror stories, but the one time I was under the
care of a doctor who knew about bone maniplation it was heaven.  I never
knew how much discomfort I was in until he made it go away.

Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
Never do anything that you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics.

Lynne A - 23 Mar 2004 19:53 GMT
> I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
> the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
> help, that would also be greatly appreciated.

Luna, I"m usually a lurker, but I HAD to respond to this.  Be very, very
careful about pain like this.  It may be muscle pain, it may be a spinal
misalignment, and it may be what mine was-an exploded disk.  Which may or
may not need surgery.  I had no choice, I was lucky to be alive and with
less damage than the neuro expected.  My disk was off to one side, and
pressing on those nerves (which caused the pain), and also on the spinal
column.  If you DO choose chiropractic, investigate the Dr well first, and
insist on X-Rays at a bare minimum.

My .02 worth, but it IS the voice of experience, at least<G>

Lynne A.
embstop@rushmore.com
http://www.theembroiderystop.com
Damsel in dis Dress - 23 Mar 2004 20:52 GMT
Luna wrote:

>> So I was wondering if anyone here had neck, back, or shoulder pain, and
>> what they did to fix it.

Sorry I missed your original post.  I had a whiplash injury about 20 years
ago.  Pain pills, chiropractic ... no help.  Then my doctor sent me to a
physical therapist, who taught me some very simple exercies to do WHILE
TAKING A VERY WARM SHOWER.  These are the exercises that he gave me.

*  Bend your neck forward, almost touching chin to chest.  Then, tip it
back like you're looking up for the ceiling.  Only go as far as it still
feels comfortable.  Only try about three at a time at first.

* Turn your head to the right, then the left, again, very slowly.

* Make a motion like you're trying to touch your shoulder with your ear.
Slowly, carefully, and with few repetitions at first.

You should have the warm water running on your neck for a few minutes
before doing the exercises, and throughout the mini-workout.  And NEVER
roll your neck.  My PT told me that the human neck was not designed to move
that way, and that it can be damaging.

I'm just repeating what was taught to me.  It may or may not be helpful to
you.  

Since joining the gym, I've also found that I have to use the minimum
weight available (10 pounds), and only a few repetitions of anything moving
the arms forward or up and down.  I don't do ANYTHING involving bringing my
arms back behind me, like in a rowing motion.

I hope some of this helps.  When in doubt, check with your doctor.

Carol
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227/220/150
Low Carb (again) since March 12, 2004
Type 2 Diabetic since May 15, 2001

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Luna - 23 Mar 2004 23:42 GMT
> Since joining the gym, I've also found that I have to use the minimum
> weight available (10 pounds), and only a few repetitions of anything moving
> the arms forward or up and down.  I don't do ANYTHING involving bringing my
> arms back behind me, like in a rowing motion.
>
> I hope some of this helps.  When in doubt, check with your doctor.

Thanks, I'll try those. I actually have no particular problems with any of
the exercises I do.  In my original post I mentioned that nothing seems to
make the pain either better or worse, unless I turn my head to one side or
the other too quickly.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Irv Finkleman - 23 Mar 2004 22:24 GMT
> I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now....

I had the same symptoms and it was cured by physiotherapy.  As soon as I
described what I felt they seemed to know -- it turned out to be a pinched
nerve.  A simple exercise well known among physiotherapists called the
'chin tuck' cured it after a few sessions.  Now, when I feel it coming on
I do the exercise (sitting down in a chair) and it goes away and stays away
for weeks.

I didn't believe in physiotherapy before that -- it had plagued me for
some time, but now it is no longer a problem.  Hope this helps.

Irv
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--------------------------------------
Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001
Beating it with diet and exercise!
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--------------------------------------
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Marcusj - 24 Mar 2004 02:33 GMT
The chin tuck is one of the 7 McKenzie exercises for neck pain in the two
books I recommended at the start of the thread.

It worked for me!

Mark.

> > I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now....
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Irv
Irv Finkleman - 24 Mar 2004 07:05 GMT
> The chin tuck is one of the 7 McKenzie exercises for neck pain in the two
> books I recommended at the start of the thread.
>
> It worked for me!
>
> Mark.

The funny things is that I had bad headaches and a sore arm.  I never really
noted it as neck pain!

Irv

Signature

--------------------------------------
Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001
Beating it with diet and exercise!
297/215/210 (to be revised lower)
58"/43"(!)/44" (already lower too!)
--------------------------------------
Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/
Visit my very special website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/
Visit my CFSRS/CFIOG ONLINE OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/
--------------------
Irv Finkleman,
Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Saffire - 23 Mar 2004 23:05 GMT
> So I was wondering if anyone here had neck, back, or shoulder pain, and
> what they did to fix it. Should regular massages do the trick? Or is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
> help, that would also be greatly appreciated.

I have chronic neck & shoulder pain from an injury in 1987.  I had to have
surgery to fix part of it, but it's still weaker and tightens up fairly rapidly.  
One thing that really helps is using a Thera-band attached to a doorknob.  Thera-
Bands are the colored bands you often see if you've ever gone to physical
therapy.  You can get them from a medical supply store by the foot (or maybe
inch), though.  I do best with the green one (different colors indicate different
strengths).  I have wrist problems, too, so I have to wear a wrist brace when I
use them.  the ones I do are:

1.  Stand at a sideways to the band.  Keep shoulder-to-elbow close to your side
and pull the band to the side away from the door.  

2.  Same as #1, but in opposite direction, and pull the band toward your abdomen.

3.  Face away from the band, arm straight, and pull forward.

4.  Face toward the band, arm straight, and pull backward.

5.  Stand sideways to band, arm straight, and pull band out to the side.  

Do each exercise 10 times.  It always helps to loosen things up and eases the
tension.  If I haven't been doing them for a while, though, it can be pretty sore
while doing it, and I can be REALLY weak at it, but it's an "exercise sore", not
an "injury sore".  You can, of course, work up to doing more sets, but just 10 a
day or even every other day can make a difference.

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Saffire
205/164/125  -  5'2.5"
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Sunshyne - 24 Mar 2004 04:58 GMT
> > So I was wondering if anyone here had neck, back, or shoulder pain, and
> > what they did to fix it. Should regular massages do the trick? Or is
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> an "injury sore".  You can, of course, work up to doing more sets, but just 10 a
> day or even every other day can make a difference.

I started physical therpay Monday. They showed me them exercises. I
have alot of pain when doing them. More on the right side. Its always
the right side. I can do them. I have been told at this time, chiro
care is not good. Until I get a MRI.

I was in a serious car accident 10 years ago. Shattered the bone in my
right arm. Had a rod, pins, wire put into the arm for six months. For
bone to grow back. Took a year to get use of the arm back. Since then,
downhill. Not the same since. I am lopsided in posture. The right side
of my body is taller by 2 inches. Chiroprators have tried to
straighten it. My hip is also not right. I most likely got a pinched
nerve. I have also scars that took quite a time to accept, but have
now.

Then came Fibromyalgia. Been in two whiplash car accidents now, in the
last 2 years.  Both times it causes the pain and everything to flare
up. All the accidents too, were not any fault of mine.

I have tried everything one can think of. Really. Its to the point I
can not afford it anymore. I have no health insurance. Its the last 10
years I have put the weight on.

I thought too that low carbing would help. Take the weight off, help
with the pain, you know carrying around extra weight does not help.

I started with over the counter pain relievers. Worked my way up to
Tylenol threes and fours. Then to vicodin. Now percocets. Thinking of
drying myself out on the pain killers. I am tired of taking them. They
can cause damage to the liver.

After the first car accident. After recovering from the surgeries. I
just let the mild pain go, didn't go to a doc for it. I wish I did.
Sometimes I think if I did go early on for the pain, then all my
physcial health problems wouldn't of gotton so out of control like
they are now. I have and use a handicap parking plackard too. I also
use a tens unit.

Right now suffering from migraines, ear aches, jaw pain, tingling in
the face, hip pain radiating to the front and down my thigh. Lower
back pain, neck pain, knee pain. Morning aches and pain, hot showerd
do help.

The diet did do wonders, until the newest car accident. I was able to
stop using the cane, to walk long distances. Since low carbing, I have
had less pain in the hip and leg. Migraines have let up. I been
struggling to go to work. Been through Vocational Rehab even. Its all
down in medical files, how well I improved. I got a lawyer, not going
to get screwed this time around with the accident. Since the accident,
chronic pain has re entered the picture.  Well, its always there, in
less degrees and more stronger ones.

I remember when I first did a search on Chronic Pain and Illness. Its
shattering to say the least. To be in my thirties, and feel as bad as
I do. At one time I was almost in a wheelchair.

I am not giving up in the least. I will always fight this. I will
fight it until I get better. Got a job interview, as a leasing
consultant coming up Thursday. It pays so well, and they have a hot
tub and exercise equipment I can use if I work there and get a job.
Its close to home, so less driving time. I have a good feeling, I will
get the job. The pay is very good too.  Also I applied to back to
school, and do what I always dreamed of doing. Graphic design. I am a
born artist for sure. Never too old to follow your dreams. I wish I
woulda done it years ago though. I start in the fall.

So, Luna, don't wait. Please go to a doctor. If you feel something is
not right, get it checked out. One thing can lead into another. I
wouldn't want my worst enemy to feel like I do. It could also be
posture related. Chiro care can help some. Physical therapy too. I can
understand that its hard to do it, with no insurance. Try some free
clinics, or low cost ones if you need to. I found the best
understanding wonderful doc through one. Good Luck!
rosie - 24 Mar 2004 00:57 GMT
luna,
i have been suffering from a similar problem, and recently have had
an MRI to r/o tumors etc.
i DO have a small bulge in-between cervical vertebrae, but on the
WRONG side of the neck.
(i can't wear a regular bra, carry a purse (over the shoulder) and
haven't lifted in months.)

the doctor has ordered a physical therapy assessment for this
thursday.
in the meantime i take 800mg of ibuprofen at a time,(every four
hours) and FLEXERIL at bedtime as directed.  ( no narcotics, for me,
i am in recovery)

but guess what?
just this morning, i took a long look at how i sit at this damn
computer desk, and realize that my arms "hang down" from the wrists,
and have no place to rest and relieve "the pulling" on  my neck.
((i took the arms off my chair, a few years ago, because i was
LEANING on them (unconsciously) and giving myself a whole different
neck ache.))

so this is what i did today.
any and all computer work was done with me facing sideways and
resting my right arm on the desk.  the keyboard and the monitor are
turned sideways also.
i believe, it actually has helped!

Signature

rosie

My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.
................................... The Dalai Lama

> I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
> the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> anything I can do myself, any particular stretches or exercises that might
> help, that would also be greatly appreciated.
Marsha - 24 Mar 2004 01:16 GMT
> I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
> the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> extra strain on my neck from the excess weight in my front, but now I am
> much closer to "normal" weight and the pain hasn't diminished at all.  

Certainly the wreck may have had something to do with it.
Do you have degenerative disk disease maybe?  A CT scan
would help.  You're young, but is there a history of
osteoporosis in your family?  If so, maybe some glucosamine
chondroitin?

Marsha/Ohio
MereM?le - 24 Mar 2004 10:48 GMT
>I have had this pretty bad neck pain for several years now. It starts at
>the base of my skull just behind my right ear, and goes all the way down

..ummm dunno Luna,, you been craning your nick out the
windahs much lately ?

<chuckle>

MM
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