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Stalled - second time around

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Sb083459 - 25 Mar 2004 05:35 GMT
I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.

After slacking off over the winter, I've gone back on it and seem to have
stalled after losing only 7 lbs or so after a month. The only possible cheating
I've been doing is drinking diet soda (which I also did the first time) and
drinking a glass of Merlot every evening. I've also been eating tofu, but this
shouldn't be a problem.

Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
JC Der Koenig - 25 Mar 2004 05:38 GMT
Try eating less.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Lorelei - 25 Mar 2004 07:53 GMT
now that is original
> Try eating less.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
JC Der Koenig - 25 Mar 2004 12:56 GMT
It's not especially original, but it seems to work.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> now that is original
> > Try eating less.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > >
> > > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Crafting Mom - 25 Mar 2004 13:45 GMT
>now that is original

Sure, he may not have been the first person to ever
dream up the concept, but it is worth considering.

>> Try eating less.
Sseaott - 25 Mar 2004 07:58 GMT
well aren't you just a ray of sunshine hun?

PLONK!

> Try eating less.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
revek - 25 Mar 2004 09:08 GMT
Sseaott  burbled across the ether:
> well aren't you just a ray of sunshine hun?
>
> PLONK!

Have you figured out how to use your killfile yet?  This is what the
third? fourth? time you've plonked JC.  Try actually doing it instead of
talking about it.

Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
The only stupid question is one that doesn't get asked.

Renee70 - 25 Mar 2004 18:19 GMT
> Sseaott  burbled across the ether:
> > well aren't you just a ray of sunshine hun?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> third? fourth? time you've plonked JC.  Try actually doing it instead of
> talking about it.

Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
Lorraine - 25 Mar 2004 10:00 GMT
>PLONK!

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."  -- Inigo Montoya
smartasp - 26 Mar 2004 04:19 GMT
I love that movie...I love Inigo's line most in the movie....are you
my brother? Not with a name like Lorraine...

Trying to get back on target. Lost 45 good pounds in 7
months....stalled, and this is my second time around....how do I get
strict again? I have support only at work, but not so much at home. I
felt so great doing this....want to be there again....loved the
changes. Help overcoming difficult loved ones welcome.

Sue

>>PLONK!
>
>"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
>means."  -- Inigo Montoya
Ignoramus20562 - 25 Mar 2004 17:25 GMT
I cannot count the number of times you "plonked" JC...

Just how stupid people can be, unbelievable.

i

> well aren't you just a ray of sunshine hun?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>> >
>> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Jean Staffen - 25 Mar 2004 13:39 GMT
Truth, without love, is cruelty.

> Try eating less.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
JC Der Koenig - 25 Mar 2004 13:56 GMT
I love the truth.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> Truth, without love, is cruelty.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> > >
> > > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Roger Zoul - 25 Mar 2004 21:55 GMT
:: Truth, without love, is cruelty.

In this world, truth is love.
Doug Freyburger - 26 Mar 2004 16:46 GMT
> Truth, without love, is cruelty.

You got it the wrong way.  Love without truth is cruelty.
Truth without love remains truth.

JC is a pain in the butt and a broken record.  But he
recommends the simple minded big hammer approach.  Brute
force approaches do indeed work although the Atkins
process uses skill rahter than brute force.  Shrug, so
JC doesn't push the core Atkins process.
JC Der Koenig - 27 Mar 2004 02:24 GMT
> > Truth, without love, is cruelty.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> process uses skill rahter than brute force.  Shrug, so
> JC doesn't push the core Atkins process.

That's an interesting perspective.

I also don't believe that Atkins is the start or end of low carb dieting.
Low carb worked long before Atkins.
Sseaott - 25 Mar 2004 07:58 GMT
damn it took u 3 months to lose 20 pounds?  I lost that in the first 2
weeks!

I'm glad I'm not a female...

> I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Jeri - 25 Mar 2004 12:10 GMT
> damn it took u 3 months to lose 20 pounds?  I lost that in the first 2
> weeks!
>
> I'm glad I'm not a female...

How supportive! And here I thought you didn't like JC's style. For someone
who runs around this group whining about how mean and unsupportive he is
you're certainly trying your best to emulate him.

How many times do you need to be told that not everyone loses at the same
rate? That the more you have to lose the faster it comes off in the
beginning? That most of the weight you lost in the first 2 weeks was water
not fat? That when you only have a small amount of fat to lose or you're
near the end of your weightloss phase it comes off slowly? Are you really
that dense or do you just play stupid on Usenet?
Crafting Mom - 25 Mar 2004 13:46 GMT
>damn it took u 3 months to lose 20 pounds?  I lost that in the first 2
>weeks!

Nothing wrong with that... it's nice to lose weight without
starving.

CM
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 25 Mar 2004 14:42 GMT
> damn it took u 3 months to lose 20 pounds?  I lost that in the first 2
> weeks!

it's not a competition, dipshit.
Hueyduck - 25 Mar 2004 09:48 GMT
> I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
> After slacking off over the winter, I've gone back on it and seem to have
> stalled after losing only 7 lbs or so after a month.
Hi , Sb083459 (please give us a nickname to call you with :-)
Don't you think that 7lbs a month is even better than 20 lbs  for 3 month ?

 The only possible cheating
> I've been doing is drinking diet soda (which I also did the first time) and
> drinking a glass of Merlot every evening. I've also been eating tofu, but this
> shouldn't be a problem.
>
> Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Is Merlot a red wine? If so, the wine is not the culprit because Red
wine contain almost no carb ( all the sugar is transformed into alcohol).

20lbs is a lot of weight . Your body is probably resting a little.
Try and compare what you eat naw and what you were eating during the
time you were losing the 20 lbs.
Are you sure you don't eat a little more ? (a piece of cheese, or
peanuts, or something ) ?

H u ey
~{}~H??K~{}~ - 25 Mar 2004 12:20 GMT
> Is Merlot a red wine? If so, the wine is not the culprit because Red
> wine contain almost no carb ( all the sugar is transformed into alcohol).

hmmmm but alcohol is an energy source that the body loves and will use it
before it bothers to break down other calories, anyway it aint the glass of
wine, I drank wine right through. I guess JC is probably right, try eating
basic food like fish and salad, omlette, chicken beansprout stir fry, bacon
and scrambled eggs and stay away from high calorie low carb foods. Enjoy the
wine its doing you good.
Roger Zoul - 25 Mar 2004 21:59 GMT
::: Is Merlot a red wine? If so, the wine is not the culprit because Red
::: wine contain almost no carb ( all the sugar is transformed into
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:: chicken beansprout stir fry, bacon and scrambled eggs and stay away
:: from high calorie low carb foods. Enjoy the wine its doing you good.

Wine has calories....I'd give up wine first before giving up nutritious
food.  Wine can be added back later once maintenance is reached.

Also, some say that alcohol is toxic in the body, so the body burns it off
quickly -- because it doesn't like it.
Bob - 26 Mar 2004 00:42 GMT
> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
> Is Merlot a red wine? If so, the wine is not the culprit because Red
> wine contain almost no carb ( all the sugar is transformed into alcohol).

Quit reading that nonsense about NO carbs in red wine over at about.com.
Pure nonsense. If all the sugar in red wine was converted to alcohol, you
would have a drink that was pure alcohol, something that can't be achieved
except through distillation. Wines, like beers vary in carbohydrate content.

Bob Skilnik
PJx - 25 Mar 2004 13:24 GMT
>I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?

I've been on Atkins a year and hit a stall.  I am now in the middle
of Atkins 'Fat Fast'.   In 4 days, I have lost 5.5 pounds but it is
not easy. You must actually want to lose weight - and be disciplined
about it.  

See the  Atkins Fat Fast at
http://atkinscenter.com/Archive/2001/12/21-237659.html

Pj
Jenny - 25 Mar 2004 15:27 GMT
The second time you low carb, the losses are much slower.  Your body is no
longer taken by surprise.

Stick with it.

-- Jenny  - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit  http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

> I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
JC Der Koenig - 26 Mar 2004 02:40 GMT
So should I sneak up on my body, or set up an ambush to surprise it better?

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> The second time you low carb, the losses are much slower.  Your body is no
> longer taken by surprise.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> >
> > Could the sugar content of the wine be the culprit?
Doug Freyburger - 25 Mar 2004 19:50 GMT
> I did Atkins last year and lost 20 lbs fairly fast - in about 3 months.
>
> After slacking off over the winter, I've gone back on it and seem to have
> stalled after losing only 7 lbs or so after a month.

What's your CCLL?  I ask this because staying low is an *extremely*
common cause of stalls.  Many people stall if they remain near 20
grams per day, yet they lose fine once they've spent a week out of
ketosis to find their CCLL.  Less is not more.

Try posting a few daily menus of everything that went in your
mouth with quantities so folks can comment on your food.  Atkins
is something very specific and plenty of folks make errors in
their food without knowing it.
Sb083459 - 25 Mar 2004 22:49 GMT
Please refresh my memory - what is the CCLL? The point at which you stop
losing? I thought that 20 grams was allowed during induction.

Here is a typical day:

Breakfast - 2 eggs or an omelet w/ onions, 2 pcs bacon.

Lunch - Burger without condiments or bread plus salad w/ oil and vinegar.

Dinner - Steak, porkchop or salmon plus salad.

Drinks - diet soda, lots of water, 1 glass of red wine per day.

Snacks - Cashew nuts, tofu, cheese (not much). Occasional low carb chocolate
bars. Low carb peanut butter. I might have a treat every few days, such as one
small piece of candy, 4 or 5 potato chips, etc.

The salad dressing and soy sauce I use may have a bit of sugar in them, but not
enough to result in over 20 g of daily carbs.

I was hoping for a faster loss. If my rate of loss is only gonna be 1 or 2 lbs
a week on Atkins this time around, I may just start a low cal regimen and
exercise more, which worked for me in the past. Any thoughts?

Thanks.
>What's your CCLL?  I ask this because staying low is an *extremely*
>common cause of stalls.  Many people stall if they remain near 20
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>is something very specific and plenty of folks make errors in
>their food without knowing it.
Saffire - 26 Mar 2004 00:45 GMT
> Please refresh my memory - what is the CCLL? The point at which you stop
> losing? I thought that 20 grams was allowed during induction.

Are you on induction right now?

> Drinks - diet soda, lots of water, 1 glass of red wine per day.
>
> Snacks - Cashew nuts, tofu, cheese (not much). Occasional low carb chocolate
> bars. Low carb peanut butter. I might have a treat every few days, such as one
> small piece of candy, 4 or 5 potato chips, etc.

Assuming you think you are on induction, I have to point out that several of
these items are NOT allowed during induction:

wine
nuts
peanut butter
candy
potato chips
low-carb bars*

*You MAY be ingesting MANY more carbs than you think via the low-carb bars -- it
all depends on how your body processes certain sugar alcohols.  Personally, I
NEVER believe the "net carbs" claims touted in advertising -- I subtract fiber
from the total carb count on the nutrition label and nothing else.  

> I was hoping for a faster loss. If my rate of loss is only gonna be 1 or 2 lbs
> a week on Atkins this time around, I may just start a low cal regimen and
> exercise more, which worked for me in the past. Any thoughts?

Post induction, 1-2 lbs a week is average and healthy (on ANY weight loss plan).  
DURING induction, your body is using up the excess glycogen stores in the liver
and shedding the associated water -- THAT'S where the BIG initial loss comes
from.  If you are eating non-induction foods, you may be partially refilling the
glycogen stores and hindering any progress as you keep losing and regaining the
same amount of water.  

Signature

Saffire
205/163/125  -  5'2.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Roger Zoul - 26 Mar 2004 16:09 GMT
:: Please refresh my memory - what is the CCLL? The point at which you
:: stop losing? I thought that 20 grams was allowed during induction.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
:: cal regimen and exercise more, which worked for me in the past. Any
:: thoughts?

Yeah...why can't you exercise now while on Atkins?  Atkins typically becomes
a low cal diet for anyone who loses weight on it...because LC results in
appetite suppression for most people.  Exercise is good, whether doing LC or
not, and LC has several benefits beyond mere weightloss.  Finally, what
exactly is wrong with losing at a rate of 1 or 2 lbs a week?  Any faster is
not generally considered safe and likely will end with you regaining all of
the weight and more.  Rapid weight loss doesn't usually bring a time for one
to learn to make lasting changes in habits.  I note you said "this time
around", which sort of implies that you've lost and regained before....is
that true?
Doug Freyburger - 26 Mar 2004 16:41 GMT
> Please refresh my memory - what is the CCLL?

It is the single most important concept in the entire book, that
every person has a level ideal for loss and it generally isn't
the initial 20.  The initial 20 is merely a deliberate undershoot
to get people into ketosis, but the initial 20 also causes the
thyroid to start decreasing T3 hormone output after 2 weeks.
Hmmm, conveniently enough Induction on the core process lasts
2 weeks.  Quite convenient that.

> The point at which you stop losing?

The scale can NOT be used to find CCLL.  The fact is extremely
many stall if they stay at 20 yet resume loss at higher carb
levels.  Hence the scale is irrelevant to finding CCLL.  The
fact is the time scale for loss is month to month (of courcse
everyone hates this fact but hating a fact does not convert it
to fiction) and the time scale for ketosis is week to week.
Hence the scale is irrelevant to finding CCLL.

CCLL is the point where you fall out of ketosis and spend a
week at a fixed carb intake level to be certain.  5-10 under
the amount that kicks you out, just barely in ketosis, gives
the ideal loss with the fewest stalls.  The exact definition
is ambiguous if it is CCLL out of ketosis and CCLL-5 for ideal
loss or vice versa, but that's a semantic arguement to debate
while in the maintenance phase.

> I thought that 20 grams was allowed during induction.

So?  You stayed at 20 longer than the core 14 days, and you
stopped losing?  What do you care about Induction now other
than it no longer gives you loss?  Induction can be extended
up to 6 months.  Okay, so what?  Do you really want to spend
6 months or even 6 days at a level that no longer gives you
loss?  Screw Induction.  Move on to OWL and lose.

Take a step back and think about your subject line:

"Stalled - second time around".  Stalls are *caused* by
staying at 20, and this is the second time you have done
exactly that.  Stop frittering around with the excuse that
extending Induction is allowed because extending Induction
has been *zero* help for you.  Move on to the core proces,
the one that has Induction last 14 days then leaves it in
the dust.

Step out in faith!  The 14 days of Induction have worked
great for you twice.  And sure enough the core process of
the table of contents lists Indcution as 14 days.  Following
the core process has worked great for you twice.  Extending
Induction has failed for you twice.  Go with what has worked
for you twice, the core process.  Move on to OWL, spend a
week out of ketosis, stablize at 5-10 under that level for
the rest of OWL.
 
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