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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / September 2009Need an opinion
My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and doing pretty good so far. Just wanted his opinion of what he thought of it and he is totally against it. He sent me this enclosed email. Any opinions on it?? Thanks, Eileen 198/180/? Atkins since 2/12/04 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- You can't argue good fundamental science. High fat content, particularly over a long period is bad. If it wasn't, more would be doing it without detrimental consequences. As I said earlier, the bodybuilding community, which to me is the utmost authority on nutrition, has said all along for over 50 years, that a low carb diet IS the way to go for bodyfat reduction. Their lean bodies prove that method. However, they also agree with a lower fat content. Protein/Carbs/Fat= 40%-40%-20% There is not one bodybuilder or fitness expert on the Atkins diet. That tells you something. Most people on the Atkins diet are typically overweight, sedentary people without the motivation to do it right and healthy. This is no slam on you per se. Losing weight is not an easy task. If it was, then everyone would be in great shape. Americans in general are always looking to find a quick fix and the Atkins Diet is a prime example of that! You will lose weight.....quickly. But it's just a fix. Keeping off the weight requires a lifestyle change. A lifestyle change of proper nutrition (40/40/20) and excercise(cardio and weights). This doesn't mean a person needs to live in the gym like a bodybuilder and it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their life. Ask him if he's ever heard of Dave Draper.  SignatureMost of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :) Becky P. > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > life. PLONK! > Ask him if he's ever heard of Dave Draper. > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > > life. > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > life. From Draper's web sight The best cutting strategy is a combination of gleaning your menu and eating less food, letting the body fat fall away. This means continuing the frequent eating, yet eliminating the excess sugary carbs (less fruit, no juice, light-light-light on the pasta, breads and potatoes), plus a medium drop in the fat intake, while continuing to lean heavily on the protein intake. More chicken and fish and less red meat. Milk products other than your protein powder will be the first protein foods to go (tend to thicken the skin). Drink water by the buckets as always and eat salads and vegetables by the bushel. Works for me !!! Haven't you heard the saying, no matter what you do, there is always someone who says something negative about it? Forget him and do what you want! If it's working, continue! You can worry about maintaining it after you accomplish your goals. > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > life. Oh, I do plan to continue! And I do know someone is always there to give you something negative but just wondering what a good 'come back' would be because I really do not believe low carb is detrimental to your health. I'd like to be able to substantiate something back to him in an email. I do not know who Dave Draper is but I will do a search on him. Eileen > Haven't you heard the saying, no matter what you do, there is always someone > who says something negative about it? Forget him and do what you want! If [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > > life. >And I do know someone is always there to give >you something negative but just wondering what a good 'come back' would be >because I really do not believe low carb is detrimental to your health. Try giving him an Atkins book. Jean M Loser and Quitter Signature348/313/180 - 5'10" Atkins Since 01/28/04 Quit Smoking On 03/07/04 Curves Since 03/19/04 Eileen Dougal burbled across the ether: > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and > training for a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I > am on Atkins diet and doing pretty good so far. Just wanted his > opinion of what he thought of it and he is totally against it. Oh naturally. He > sent me this enclosed email. Any opinions on it?? Responses interspersed below. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > You can't argue good fundamental science. Very true. www.lowcarbresearch.org/results.asp a collection of the best science done today from prestigeous institiutions. High fat content, > particularly over a long period is bad. Any study that purports to show fat as bad does so in the presence of high carbs. There are no studies on fat alone and it's affect on the human body. It does appear, from what information we do have, that it's not that fat is bad, but the combination of the two that clogs arteries. Lowfat was pushed politically --without the science to back it up I might add--read Gary Taube's articles on fat. "The soft science of dietary fat" and "What if it's all been a big fat lie?" both easily available by googling. You can even read the response to "fat lie" and the counter response. And finally, "fat is bad" is overly simple. Trans-fats are bad. Saturated fat, in the absence of carbs is neutral. Poly oils is better. Monounsaturated is best. Your simple "fat bad" advice would mean you avoid EFAs like Omega3, absolutely necessary for good health. Bad advice. > If it wasn't, more would be doing it without detrimental consequences. Plenty of folks do. Eskimo/Inuit for one. Some tribe down in Africa of very tall thin mean warrior/cattlemen who live off of their herds-- no veggies or grains or fruits which I can't remember the name of right now. And no they are not genetically different from other humans. Grain eaters have just overpopulated the planet and pushed out older lifestyles almost everywhere. I might add that there are no detrimental consequences on record, regardless of how many times the 'experts' have bleated about what might happen. No kidney failures. No calcium leaching. No clogged artieries. No strokes or heart attacks directly attributable to lowcarb eating. No ketones damaging unborn babies. No ketosis deaths. Not one. Lots of accusations, but no proof, and much growing evidence that says diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure, inflamation of arterial walls, arthritis, IBS and a host of other ailments are helped if not completely controlled by lowcarbing. The lowfat crowd is reduced to making lame claims along the lines of lowcarb makes you stink. > As I said earlier, the bodybuilding community, which to me is the > utmost authority on nutrition, has said all along for over 50 years, > that a low carb diet IS the way to go for bodyfat reduction. Interesting that the community you believe in endorses lowcarb for weightloss. Your authorities use this method themselves. Yet still you carp about how unhealthy it is- a quick fix you say and not a lifestyle change-- you are showing a disconnect here. Don't you think that is odd. I don't consider bodybuilders or fitness experts to be authorities on this subject when nutritionists (who supposedly study this stuff) and dietitians and doctors can't seem to keep up to date on the information. > Their lean bodies prove that method. However, they also agree with a > lower fat content. Low fat meme is everywhere. Doesn't make it true. > Protein/Carbs/Fat= 40%-40%-20% Yes? You assume that lowcarb plans (there are several) continue the "high fat" phase after weight loss. They don't. Maintenence eating constitutes your 40/40/20, but the carbs being twenty percent. Note: percentages are misleading anyway. If you eat the same amount of protien and fat as on a 'regular' diet and just cut the refined carbs from your diet, your fat and protien percentages skew up. Doesn't tell you squat about what you are really eating or how much. > There is not one bodybuilder or fitness expert on the Atkins diet. > That tells you something. It tells you nothing. And I suspect you are looking in the wrong places. Most people on the Atkins diet are typically > overweight, sedentary people without the motivation to do it right and > healthy. Your imagination is limited. There are other reasons to eat lowcarb, primarily insulin and blood sugar related, but also many people just want to eat healthily and lowcarb works fine for that. Lowcarb isn't only about weight loss. In any case, you can reasonably speculate on the average weight of the person who might try lowcarb, but you can't reasonably speculate on their motivation or lack thereof if you don't bother to ask them, which I gather you haven't. > Losing weight is not an easy task. If it was, then everyone would be > in great shape. It's not as difficult as you think it is either. However I will admit that lowcarb takes work. It's not a miracle diet. Calories still count. Lowcarb is not sexy. Vegetables are boring compared to pasta and pastries. Americans in general are always looking to find a > quick fix and the Atkins Diet is a prime example of that! You haven't read the plan I take it. Atkins, in particular, takes quite a bit of work. > You will lose weight.....quickly. But it's just a fix. Keeping off the > weight requires a lifestyle change. I repeat. You haven't read the plan. > A lifestyle change of proper nutrition (40/40/20) and > excercise(cardio and weights). I repeat. You haven't read the plan. > This doesn't mean a person needs to live in the gym like a > bodybuilder and it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet > for the rest of their life. You said lifestyle change. (Atkins, by the way, is only one lowcarb plan-- there are plenty of them out there). Lowcarb, done properly, *is* a lifestyle change. Since you don't know much about lowcarb, it behoves you to avoid giving out advice about it until you do. ************ How's that for an opinion? Signaturerevek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June 2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please There's no plate like chrome, there's no plate like chrome... Awesome post! Very good stuff. And in addition to all that, there is increasing evidence that a bit of protein in wheat, gliadin, triggers an IgA and IgG immune response in the epithelium of the small intestine, damages the mucosa there, and leads to a variety of *autoimmune disorders* as well as increased risk of intestinal cancer and other lymphomas. There is hard scientific research by gastroenterologists that supports the cancer claim for untreated sufferers of celiac disease. Any dieters who eliminate wheat, barley and rye and then experience improved gut performance should be tested for celiac disorder. It may save your life later. > Eileen Dougal burbled across the ether: > > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and [quoted text clipped - 146 lines] > > How's that for an opinion? :: Eileen Dougal burbled across the ether: ::: My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] :: It tells you nothing. And I suspect you are looking in the wrong :: places. His statement is not true anyway. Atkins is just a low carb diet, and many bodybuilders do low carb to lose fat. However, Atkins or any LC diet is simply not optimal for mass gain, so naturally a bodybuilder in a bulking phase is not going to follow a low carb plan. :: Most people on the Atkins diet are typically ::: overweight, sedentary people without the motivation to do it right [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] :: You haven't read the plan I take it. Atkins, in particular, takes :: quite a bit of work. What about those of us who have been at LC for over 2 years. Doesn't sound like a quick fix to me. :: > You will lose weight.....quickly. But it's just a fix. Keeping off :: the ::: weight requires a lifestyle change. :: :: I repeat. You haven't read the plan. Yes, he doesn't have a clue.... ::: A lifestyle change of proper nutrition (40/40/20) and ::: excercise(cardio and weights). [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] :: Since you don't know much about lowcarb, it behoves you to avoid :: giving out advice about it until you do. Agreed. :: ************ :: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :: please :: There's no plate like chrome, there's no plate like chrome... http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v428/n6980/full/ 428252a_fs.html > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their > life. > "Eileen Dougal" I dont think he seemed to far off the mark, Atkins centre have said to watch the fat intake, he was basically supporting your diet, but saying watch the fat level, I agree, to much of anything isnt good. If you eat fried bacon followed by heavy cream and splenda five times a day with a cup of veggies included, you will be following Atkins, but I doubt you would be slim or healthy on it. The first long term study of thousands of low-carbers eating high fat diets hasn't been done yet. So far, the evidence is very good that the diet is healthy and effective. Pj >My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for >a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their >life. > As I said earlier, the bodybuilding community, which to me is the utmost > authority on nutrition, has said all along for over 50 years, that a low > carb diet IS the way to go for bodyfat reduction. The bodybuilding community is the utmost authority on nutrition? That statement is absurdly hilarious and by itself enough to discount the rest of the letter. Mark. > My son is a health nut. So you understnad that he's biased and not completely rational on this topic then? Good. > As I said earlier, the bodybuilding community, which to me is the utmost > authority on nutrition He may believe that, but do YOU? Seriously. Step back and think about that for a bit. Do you honestly think that the bodybuilding community, with its extremely specialized goals, is really the best authority? Or do you beleive that ANY authority must automatically be correct? Before answering read about George Washington being bled by the best authorities of his day. > There is not one bodybuilder or fitness expert on the Atkins diet. That > tells you something. It sure does. That your son doesn't even know the bodybuilding community well. There are *plenty* of weightlifters including competing ones on Atkins. > Losing weight is not an easy task. He's slam-dunk correct on that point. > Americans in general are always looking to find a quick fix and > the Atkins Diet is a prime example of that! Says some random guy who's never bothered to read the book and has no clue what the Atkins process actually entials. Right. Check. Next expert, please. He's sincere but clueless. Do you think the cluelessness part is curable? Thanks for these comments. I would love to hear from someone who is actually into bodybuilding. He claims you cannot bodybuild on much less than 200 carbs. Doesn't really matter whether it is true or not because I don't plan to body build anyways. But the way he explains it is if you don't have enough carbs to convert into energy, your body will start using proteins to convert. Then there will be nothing left for muscle growth. Essentially, you will eat your own lean muscle for energy. Your muscle shrinks but your fat increases. This causes you to lose weight but you will be 'skinny-fat'. You need muscle for further fat loss. With muscle, your body burns fat 4 times as efficient. I am not doubting low carb works and is healthy. I am just trying to get him to understand where I am coming from but when I think about what he says, it also makes sense. Just trying to make sense of it all.... Eileen "Doug Freyburger" wrote in message . > > There is not one bodybuilder or fitness expert on the Atkins diet. That > > tells you something. > > It sure does. That your son doesn't even know the bodybuilding > community well. There are *plenty* of weightlifters including > competing ones on Atkins. Eileen Dougal burbled across the ether: > Thanks for these comments. I would love to hear from someone who is > actually into bodybuilding. He claims you cannot bodybuild on much > less than 200 carbs. Doesn't really matter whether it is true or not > because I don't plan to body build anyways. It is apparently easier if you 'carb up' if you want to build muscle. > But the way he explains it is if you don't have enough carbs to > convert into energy, your body will start using proteins to convert. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 'skinny-fat'. You need muscle for further fat loss. With muscle, your > body burns fat 4 times as efficient. True. This however applies far more to lowfat/lowcalorie dieters than to lowcarbers, who are supposed to make sure they eat enough protien. (Lowcarb is also called a protien sparing diet). If you get enough protien from your diet, then you won't cannablize your muscle tissue. > I am not doubting low carb works and is healthy. I am just trying to > get him to understand where I am coming from but when I think about > what he says, it also makes sense. Just trying to make sense of it > all.... His information is based on the assumption that high carb is natural and necessary. All the science he knows is also based on that assumption, so the data from these studies are going to reflect that bias. The human body is not a constant, but a dynamic that reacts to changing conditions with wide and varied responses. As in the above example, your son is applying conditions found in one environment (lowfat/lowcal) to a different environment (lowcarb) and not factoring in the effects of the changes. Signaturerevek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June 2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please Why be difficult? Put some effort in and be impossible. You are exactly right. He says we should all favor a lowfat/lowcarb diet rather than highfat/lowcarb diet. This would be fine in a perfect world but wouldn't everyone be walking around HUNGRY all the time on a lowfat/lowcarb diet? His answer: You need more discipline. I disagree with him but just try to disagree in a nice way. Eileen "revek" wrote in message > > His information is based on the assumption that high carb is natural and > necessary. All the science he knows is also based on that assumption, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please > Why be difficult? Put some effort in and be impossible. There are two distinct modes in bodybuilding: bulking and cutting. You must decide which one your are doing at the moment. If you are bulking, then carbs are a definite must. If you are cutting, then they are not. SignatureMost of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :) Becky P. > Thanks for these comments. I would love to hear from someone who is actually > into bodybuilding. He claims you cannot bodybuild on much less than 200 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > community well. There are *plenty* of weightlifters including > > competing ones on Atkins. :: Thanks for these comments. I would love to hear from someone who is :: actually into bodybuilding. He claims you cannot bodybuild on much [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] :: what he says, it also makes sense. Just trying to make sense of it :: all.... I suggest you not listen to your son on this, Eileen. You're not into bodybuilding and thus don't need his concepts. You son is obviously trying to help you, but like many, he is just seriously misinformed. LCing is good for preventing muscle loss while dieting and you'll be eating plenty of protein and fat, for your body to convert (along with burning bodyfat too because you'll be eating less food overall due to LCs appetite suppression brought on by reduction of carbs) to energy and spare your muscles. LC will leave you less "shinny-fat" than low fat will. And his arguement applies more to low-fat dieting than to low-carb dieting. :: Eileen :: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] ::: community well. There are *plenty* of weightlifters including ::: competing ones on Atkins. >My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for >a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >198/180/? >Atkins since 2/12/04 I would say that your son is sadly misinformed. I cant count how many body builders that have posted here who Lowcarb.. I would say if this diet works for you, dont bother asking for others advice.. Especially those who havent really reserched the diet or seen how much healthier people are on it.. Most of the studies that have been done on high fat were also high carb, so they really dont apply.. Many of the posters here have posted how much healthier they are and have the numbers to back them up.. I am one of them.. In two years I went down 30lbs, my cholesterol went down to normal, ,my triglicerides were cut in half.. My blood pressure is normal and my A1C(Im a diabetic) is in NORMAL range.. I havent felt this healthy in Years.. So has my husband.. In the 9 short weeks he has been on Atkins, he has brought his cholesterol down 54 points and dropped his triglicerides almost by half.. His blood pressure has normalized and his he looks and feels 100% better.. he has dropped 33lbs. He has gone down 2 clothing sizes.. His Dr is no longer recomending he go on blood pressure meds.. I would say this diet is NOT unhealthy.. Oh, just a thought.. My older dau lost 50lbs three years ago on Atkins, does maint level now and her Dr is thrilled at the change.. As is she..JMO As always YMMV and this is JMO Jeanne Type 2 Diagnosed 05/28/02 194/164/120 my nephew is a personal trainer and body builder. He does several competitions a year. We eat almost exactly the same he does eat some whole wheat bread now and then if his carbs are too low for the day. his diet consists of proteins veggies more protein and a little fruit. we both drink whey powder and take multi vitamins and pottasium. Sugar and white flour do not touch his lips same wtih carbonated water and caffeine. Example he took me to lunch last week. we both had the grillled chicken salad with extra chicken i had them keep the pecans off mine he ate them. He ordered chicken casasdias (sp?) for an appetizer. He pulled the tortila off before eating them. granted he is allowed a great deal more carbs then me because he has no stored fat. So he enjoys bannanas, pineapple and other fruits. Now he gets very very grumpy if he goes wtih out eating, if something happens and he is running late etc. so he carries some type of protein at all times. i'm guessing that is because he has no stored fat his body has no energy to run on when his carbs and protein run out. He cooks all his food in olive oil and butter , i have had to fuss at him about fats making him eat a little more of the good fats. > >My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > >a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Jeanne Type 2 Diagnosed 05/28/02 > 194/164/120 Yeh, sounds like the same things he eats. He doesn't do sugar or flour either but eats more natural carbs. I think it is because he has to eat like every couple hours rather than just 3 meals a day like I do. The training burns off all the carbs he eats in no time at all so he is needing to always replenish them. Guess he is close to 5% body fat now. Said he can only do that during competition time though, if you go much lower than 5% body fat all the time, you would probably die. But like everyone else has said, bodybuilding is so much different than just low carbing for a way of life. And with so many health nut people in my family, it kind of embarrasses me to be so overweight. In fact, his wife just won some Golds Gym world wide training and weight challenge a few months ago. She won all kinds of prizes, money, training equipment, etc. Then along comes me at almost 50 lbs overweight so makes you feel kind of 'small'. haha. (They don't make fun of me though). Eileen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" > my nephew is a personal trainer and body builder. He does several > competitions a year. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > protein run out. He cooks all his food in olive oil and butter , i have had > to fuss at him about fats making him eat a little more of the good fats. :: Yeh, sounds like the same things he eats. He doesn't do sugar or :: flour either but eats more natural carbs. I think it is because he [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] :: at almost 50 lbs overweight so makes you feel kind of 'small'. :: haha. (They don't make fun of me though). Eileen -- you're in good company....keep working on your weight and getting some exercise and you'll be tell them what to do -- and they'll be proud of you. Show them what LCing can do for a body! :: Eileen :: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] ::: have had to fuss at him about fats making him eat a little more of ::: the good fats. fat itself is not bad. the wrong kinds of fat are bad--namely saturated fat. :: fat itself is not bad. the wrong kinds of fat are bad--namely :: saturated fat. Prove it. > :: fat itself is not bad. the wrong kinds of fat are bad--namely > :: saturated fat. > > Prove it. I don't care to prove it. I'll check back with you in 30 years or so and see how your health is though. >> :: fat itself is not bad. the wrong kinds of fat are bad--namely >> :: saturated fat. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I don't care to prove it. I'll check back with you in 30 years or so >and see how your health is though. So you just decided saturated fat is bad, without any reason? LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/217/140 & hubby- 6' 310/234/180 :: fat itself is not bad. the wrong kinds of fat are bad--namely :: saturated fat. In the absense of excessive carbs, sat fat is basically netural. Hence, eating it on a LC WOE is not harmful. > My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for > a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and > doing pretty good so far. Just wanted his opinion of what he thought of it > and he is totally against it. He sent me this enclosed email. Any opinions > on it?? If he listens to the high fat warnings, why not to the high protien warnings saying it will produce too much nitrogen in the body? Guess he does not eat 'too much' protein. He takes in 40% protein/40% fat/20% carbs. "Archon" wrote in message > > If he listens to the high fat warnings, why not to the high protien > warnings saying it will produce too much nitrogen in the body? > Guess he does not eat 'too much' protein. He takes in 40% protein/40% > fat/20% carbs. Those who are afraid of protein think of atkin's 25% as too high. I eat 30%, so I guess you can make nitroglycerin of my blood. He's pretty much correct. Except for the 40/30/30 thing he just about nailed it. Lots of saturated fat is just not good for you. >My son is a health nut. He is into body building right now and training for >a big competition. I happened to mention to him that I am on Atkins diet and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >it certainly doesn't mean to be on the Atkins Diet for the rest of their >life. I have been doing the high fat low carb diet for awhile .I haven't had any problems so far.I am a body builder,and I have more strenght on this diet than on any other diet.Most people that dont try this diet,doesn't have the willpower to do it,they make up reasons not to.Science is not set in stone, everything can be changed to work better.people that have high sugar,are not able to do a carb diet.It greatly improves your blood sugar.The combination of high carb,and high fat causes problems with health,not the fat its self. The reason why I know is that I work at enersys powerful solutions.And they do fastings blood work on your health because of the lead in the plant.And the test results showed I was healthy.So dont believe all the bad things you here about this diet.As long as your fiber is high enough and your taking centrium nothing should go wrong. |
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