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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004Results vs. positive thinking (was Re: A Bump in then Road)
In article <ffq860d7e3plck2jaibjmeqs0mu037h9hu@4ax.com>, Damsel in dis Dress wrote: > On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:26:45 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanymalcontents.com> > wrote: > >>ig, >>that is SUCH BULLSHIT! > > You GO, Rosie! *grin* No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? > Carol, the fit and trim person who is temporarily wearing a fat suit It is funny because, being a fit and trim person presently, I consider myself a fat person who is temporarily slim (at normal weight for almost 7 months). I know that as soon as I start being too optimistic and neglect my diet, I will become my regular fat self. Try to think which attitude is more productive. The results oriented one or the positive thinking oriented one. i 223/172/180 >Ignoramus27771 ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid writes: >In article <ffq860d7e3plck2jaibjmeqs0mu037h9hu@4ax.com>, Damsel in dis Dress >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Try to think which attitude is more productive. The results oriented >one or the positive thinking oriented one. They're not mutually exclusive for everyone, Ig. Maybe for you they are, but your personal truths are not universal. The results-oriented attitude and the positive-thinking attitude *can* be the same thing for *some* people. I think of myself as a thin person who screwed up and is now correcting her mistakes. That motivates me -- I feel more power to change and more reason to change if I think I'm correcting a mistake. If it works for Carol, too, to think that she's a thin person who's solving a problem and headed back to being her true self, then more power to her! While everyone here has some things in common -- an interest in low-carb, a belief it will work, at least some success with it (in most cases) -- dieting and eating are not a matter of one size fits all. You cannot prescribe motivation. You cannot dictate how another person will respond psychologically to certain statements. We each know ourselves better than anyone else here knows us, and ultimately we are responsible for learning and applying what works best for us in terms of weight loss and eating habits. We're individuals, not a bunch of blue widgets from the blue widget factory. Daria 166/147/140 sugar-free since 2/1/04 low-carb since 2/17/04 >>Ignoramus27771 ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I think of myself as a thin person who screwed up and is now correcting her > mistakes. which is realistic, given your weight numbers that you posted. That is, you are grounded in reality and not fantasy. Your total weight loss plan is to lose 26 lbs, a relatively small amount. Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. > That motivates me -- I feel more power to change and more reason to > change if I think I'm correcting a mistake. which is not at all incosistent with reality. > If it works for Carol, too, to think that she's a thin person who's > solving a problem and headed back to being her true self, then more > power to her! Would it not be more effective to try to use reality as a basis for making decisions, though. > While everyone here has some things in common -- an interest in low-carb, a > belief it will work, at least some success with it (in most cases) -- dieting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > works best for us in terms of weight loss and eating habits. We're > individuals, not a bunch of blue widgets from the blue widget factory. I agree with that. i > Daria > 166/147/140 > sugar-free since 2/1/04 > low-carb since 2/17/04 >Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as >she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. Ever heard the phrase "thin person wanting to get out?" or "thin person trapped inside a fat person's body?". I'm currently "fat" (well duh still have 40 pounds to go), but once the fat is chiseled off me by my own hard work, the remaining ME will be slender. CM >>Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as >>she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fat is chiseled off me by my own hard work, the remaining ME will be > slender. Do you mean your slim spiritual self, or do you mean that you will stay slim without an effort? i >>>Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as >>>she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Do you mean your slim spiritual self, or do you mean that you will >stay slim without an effort? When something becomes a life-long habit, it's not really so much of an "effort" anymore. For me, once I reach goal, to regain the fat would take more of an "effort" than staying where I am, doing what I've been doing... CM :: In article <20040326144853.22520.00000393@mb-m04.aol.com>, DG511 :: wrote: [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] :: as she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not :: mistaken. It doesn't matter if it is realistic or not, visualization is an important step in making lasting change and achieving an important goal. 'What a person can conceive, a person can achieve.' ::: That motivates me -- I feel more power to change and more reason to ::: change if I think I'm correcting a mistake. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] :: Would it not be more effective to try to use reality as a basis for :: making decisions, though. She's not that big, Ig. ::: While everyone here has some things in common -- an interest in ::: low-carb, a belief it will work, at least some success with it (in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] ::: sugar-free since 2/1/04 ::: low-carb since 2/17/04 >Ignoramus27771 ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid writes: <snip, to a statement I made> >> I think of myself as a thin person who screwed up and is now correcting her >> mistakes. > >which is realistic, given your weight numbers that you posted. That >is, you are grounded in reality and not fantasy. Your total weight >loss plan is to lose 26 lbs, a relatively small amount. Yes, a small amount, but not irrelevant. I'm viewing this as a learning experience and problem solving, and in that respect, I think the amount of weight I'm losing *is* irrelevant, because anyone could take that approach to any amount of weight. >Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as >she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. I think each person losing weight has to put the process in terms that will help them succeed. That will be different for each individual. If a heavy person wants to think of herself as really being a thin person who has to diet, and if that way of thinking motivates her more than anything else, then that's what she should do. >> That motivates me -- I feel more power to change and more reason to >> change if I think I'm correcting a mistake. > >which is not at all incosistent with reality. It's the problem-solving mentality, which knows no size. >> If it works for Carol, too, to think that she's a thin person who's >> solving a problem and headed back to being her true self, then more >> power to her! > >Would it not be more effective to try to use reality as a basis for >making decisions, though. Who gets to determine reality? I say each individual has a responsibility to be realistic with him or herself, but reality will differ for each of us. So I still take issue with you saying anyone else is unrealistic. (And FYI, I agree with you in a fair number of other discussions, btw. Just not this one.) >> While everyone here has some things in common -- an interest in low-carb, a >> belief it will work, at least some success with it (in most cases) -- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I agree with that. Then I think you would likely agree with most of the rest of what I said. Daria 166/147/140 sugar-free since 2/1/04 low-carb since 2/17/04 > Damsel's visualisation of herself as a thin person is not realistic as > she is fat and has been so for quite a while, if I am not mistaken. she's certainly not going to get reach her goal overnight, but if she doesn't visualize it for herself then she's NEVER going to reach it. she knows she's not "thin" at this moment, but if keeping that image in her mind is something that helps her keep working toward her goal i say more power to her. > No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about > yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? I believe Carol should be feeling good about herself because she is daily getting closer her goal. It's like mountin climbing. She's on her way to getting to the top of the mountain, shouldn't she feel good that she is actually progressing toward's her goal? Each step is an accomplishment, Carol *is* doing something, not just sitting butt and whining. ig, I'm sorry...I dont understand your reasoning at all. Laura LC since 01/04/04 5'8" 212/180/140 >> No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about >> yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? > > I believe Carol should be feeling good about herself because she is daily > getting closer her goal. Exactly what I was saying. The reason for feeling good should be accomplishments. > It's like mountin climbing. She's on her way to > getting to the top of the mountain, shouldn't she feel good that she is > actually progressing toward's her goal? Yes. And if she is not progressing in what she feels is important, then she should not feel good about herself. i >Each step is an accomplishment, > Carol *is* doing something, not just sitting butt and whining. > ig, I'm sorry...I dont understand your reasoning at all. > Laura > LC since 01/04/04 > 5'8" 212/180/140 :: Yes. And if she is not progressing in what she feels is important, :: then she should not feel good about herself. Correction: she should not feel good about that one aspect of what she is doing and seek to improve (and just doing that is an accomplishment). That is much different than not feeling good about oneself. >No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about >yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? How about being a worthy human being? How about her actual willingness to change her habits for the better? It might not fit your definition of accomplishment, but if my differently-abled daughter (for example) had to wait until she fit someone else's narrow definition of "accomplishment" she'd be feeling the sh*ts about herself except for the rare occasion. Instead, she IS accomplishing a lot, because she believes she can. CM On 26 Mar 2004 17:55:58 GMT, Ignoramus27771 <ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid> announced in front of God and everybody: >In article <ffq860d7e3plck2jaibjmeqs0mu037h9hu@4ax.com>, Damsel in dis Dress wrote: >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:26:45 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanymalcontents.com> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about >yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? And what, exactly, is to be gained by feeling *bad* about yourself? Better she see herself as attractive and dynamic than have that attitude of, 'Well, I guess I can feel good about myself sometime in the future, after I've toiled and denied myself and worked hard." Sounds too much like certain self-flagellating, I'm-miserable-now-but-I'll-get-my-reward-in-heaven religions for my taste. >It is funny because, being a fit and trim person presently, I consider >myself a fat person who is temporarily slim (at normal weight for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Try to think which attitude is more productive. The results oriented >one or the positive thinking oriented one. Frankly, it sounds like you're the one with the lousy attitude. Jeez.. you can't even enjoy your weight loss and feel good about yourself. Dawn > On 26 Mar 2004 17:55:58 GMT, Ignoramus27771 ><ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid> announced in front of God and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > And what, exactly, is to be gained by feeling *bad* about yourself? maybe wanting to change > Better she see herself as attractive and dynamic than have that > attitude of, 'Well, I guess I can feel good about myself sometime in > the future, after I've toiled and denied myself and worked hard." > Sounds too much like certain self-flagellating, and yet that's what works in reality. > I'm-miserable-now-but-I'll-get-my-reward-in-heaven religions for my > taste. Why in heaven, usually, health improves with every stone of weight lost. >>It is funny because, being a fit and trim person presently, I consider >>myself a fat person who is temporarily slim (at normal weight for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Jeez.. you can't even enjoy your weight loss and feel good about > yourself. I enjoy my weight loss alright, I am just being realistic about where I am. Unfortunately, my fatness problem has not beel solved, but suppressed temporarily. I discovered that I am a naturally fat person. i On 27 Mar 2004 00:17:04 GMT, Ignoramus27771 <ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid> announced in front of God and everybody: >> On 26 Mar 2004 17:55:58 GMT, Ignoramus27771 >><ignoramus27771@NOSPAM.27771.invalid> announced in front of God and >> everybody: >>>No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about >>>yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? >> >> And what, exactly, is to be gained by feeling *bad* about yourself? > >maybe wanting to change Well, she already wants to make a change. Maybe deciding to change has made her feel GOOD about herself. Feeling good about oneself is a great motivator -- if you love yourself, then you want more and better things for yourself, because you believe you deserve it. >> Better she see herself as attractive and dynamic than have that >> attitude of, 'Well, I guess I can feel good about myself sometime in >> the future, after I've toiled and denied myself and worked hard." >> Sounds too much like certain self-flagellating, > >and yet that's what works in reality. Not for everyone, darling. Some of us do very poorly on a steady diet of depression, low self-esteem and misery. Dawn Self-love is something we all should cultivate, fat or thin. Being fat is not evil. Or sinful. Some people are happy large. It's all about feeling good. My late partner used to like to say *Other peoples opinion of me is none of my business.* I think I had to start from a place where I cared about who I was before I could make any decisions about the shape of my body. I can also say, one of the reasons I gained a lot of weight was because of all the attention from chubby chaser types. The only thing that matters is how we feel about ourselves.  SignatureBear- Grrrrrrrrrrrr :o) 297/258/210 > In article <ffq860d7e3plck2jaibjmeqs0mu037h9hu@4ax.com>, Damsel in dis Dress wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:26:45 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanymalcontents.com> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > i > 223/172/180 >No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about >yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? Duh! Feeling good about onesself IS a positive accomplishment. A foundation is built step by step. Lee Rodgers Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org CHATroom http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html Low-Carb Connoisseur puts the dash in low-carb http://www.low-carb.com > >No, really, if you have no accomplishments, why feel good about > >yourself? What is the *reason* to feel good about yourself? > > > Duh! Feeling good about onesself IS a positive accomplishment. A > foundation is built step by step. You can feel good about your SELF without feeling good about your BODY. They are two seperate things people. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > You can feel good about your SELF without feeling good about your BODY. > They are two seperate things people. Semantics: you cannot separate yourself from your body (esp. if you are atheist). >> You can feel good about your SELF without feeling good about your BODY. >> They are two seperate things people. > >Semantics: you cannot separate yourself from your body (esp. if you are >atheist). Sure you can. What does being a good person have to do with the container that that good person resides in? Carol, the fit and trim person who is temporarily wearing a fat suit Signature227/220.5/150 (mini-goal, One-derland) Low Carb (again) since March 12, 2004 Type 2 Diabetic since May 15, 2001 This is what backsliding does: http://photos.yahoo.com/carol_arie > Sure you can. What does being a good person have to do with the container > that that good person resides in? > > Carol, the fit and trim person who is temporarily wearing a fat suit I just mean that the body will always be part of you. Reg's disabled theory: If inline skating is your biggest hobby, and your life revolves around skating, and you are suddenly disabled, then you will have to change your life bigtime, e.g. become a serious book reader, and the way others see you will change. New people you meet will suddenly see as a bookworm, and think it strange that you once could not talk about anything else than skate brands, bearings, wheel materials, skating routes, and were never at home. > > Sure you can. What does being a good person have to do with the container > > that that good person resides in? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > talk about anything else than skate brands, bearings, wheel materials, > skating routes, and were never at home. Yes, but would you then be a broken, defective PERSON because you could no longer skate? If you don't handle it well, you could very well start to see yourself as just that, and it's a depressing downward spiral. You could take some time to adjust to the fact that you could never skate again, accept it and move on, or you could spend the rest of your life bemoaning the fact that you'll never skate again and nobody will love you anymore because YOU are not good enough to skate. It can be a fine line if you don't work on separating your sense of self from your broken body. SignatureSaffire 205/162/125 - 5'2.5" Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 > Yes, but would you then be a broken, defective PERSON because you could no longer > skate? I don't know who started the defective person thing, but I never said anything about that. I just said that the body is not separate from yourself, it is part of you, no matter what you do. But it is not the entire you, but it is part of you, not a separate thing. (deliberate redundancy) >> Yes, but would you then be a broken, defective PERSON because you >> could no longer skate? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > entire you, but it is part of you, not a separate thing. (deliberate > redundancy) I tend to agree with Archon here. It's very hard to feel good about oneself while not feeling good about one's body - not impossible, but very, very hard. Signaturecarla http://geekofalltrades.typepad.com/geek >I tend to agree with Archon here. It's very hard to feel good about oneself >while not feeling good about one's body - not impossible, but very, very >hard. Conversely, it can be very hard to feel good about your body -- and care enough to want to improve your health -- if you feel lousy about the person inside. Many people find that a positive attitude within goes a long way towards inspiring positive changes on the outside. Dawn >> I tend to agree with Archon here. It's very hard to feel good about >> oneself while not feeling good about one's body - not impossible, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > care enough to want to improve your health -- if you feel lousy about > the person inside. Oh, I totally agree with this. But I don't think everyone will. I tried to make this point a week or two ago, waxing introspective about some of the struggles I've sometimes had disliking the person I am. I was surprised at how horrified some of the responses were. > Many people find that a positive attitude within goes a long way > towards inspiring positive changes on the outside. The arrow points both ways. carla Signaturecarla http://geekofalltrades.typepad.com/geek > Oh, I totally agree with this. But I don't think everyone will. I tried to > make this point a week or two ago, waxing introspective about some of the > struggles I've sometimes had disliking the person I am. I was surprised at > how horrified some of the responses were. People always freak out when you hit bulls-eye. I told my SO (who lost 65 pounds on WW, and I feel like I was there for every bite he didn't take) about this thread, and I asked him about his body image. He's 5' 9", 187 pounds, and answered the question by saying that when he was in high school and weighed 170 at the same height, he played football in a position that was normally occupied by guys much larger than him. And he's always thought of himself as bigger than he is. Not "bigger" as in "weighs too much" but as in "taller, bigger boned, etc." So I then asked him what his body image was before he lost the weight. He said "a short, stocky guy who weighed too much." Now he's "a short, stocky guy." And if he lost more weight, he'd be "a short, stocky guy who weighs too little." Aside from the fact that he's average, not short, I found that kind of interesting. The weight is an addendum to his physical self-image, not part of his core description. I wonder if there's a gender difference here, or if it's just a matter of how individuals see themselves. Daria 166/147/140 sugar-free since 2/1/04 low-carb since 2/17/04 > > > Sure you can. What does being a good person have to do with the container > > > that that good person resides in? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It can be a fine line if you don't work on separating your sense of self from > your broken body. It is a downward spiral. I been there. It is hard to accept it. You do have to find another life to live, adjust. I been there moaning and groaning over all that I have lost. One day I woke up, and realized all that I can do, all that I am still worth. I am a hardhead. I accept it sometimes. I don't accept that I will never be able to do the things I once did. I think its from being optimitic, I have enough hope for us all. Thats why I am Sunshyne. It all starts on loving youself. Forgiving yourself too. I had a bad body image for a long time. Its what caused me to gain all the weight. Had to go back to the past to figure out why I have such a bad body image. It comes alot too, how you are programmed as a child. My bad body image came from emotional abuse. I can separate the outer body from the inner body. I just imagine that the inside is my spirit, what I am made of, the good and the bad. The outer body is just a vessel that holds my spirit. I got a grip on the inside of me, and all that I am. When I awakened to that, the body image came into factor. I did not care before about what I looked like outside, because I was too hurt on the inside to care. Now I care. So, it all does boils down to, you got to feel good inside. >> You can feel good about your SELF without feeling good about your >> BODY. They are two seperate things people. > > Semantics: you cannot separate yourself from your body (esp. if you are > atheist). Of course you can. If someone suffers an accident and wakes up permanently disabled are they any less of a human being than they were before? Are their positive human qualities at all diminished? The question answers itself. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com Sure you can, it's called mind over matter. There is no reality, only perception. In news:pM6dnR8_gs2kmPvdRVn-sQ@omsoft.com, Archon <sequoia@MAPSONtiscali.dk> stated || You can feel good about your SELF without feeling good about your || BODY. They are two seperate things people. | | Semantics: you cannot separate yourself from your body (esp. if you | are atheist). > Sure you can, it's called mind over matter. There is no reality, only > perception. An example: A combination of 2 physical signs, fat and bad hygiene, then you can be pretty sure the person has a negative aura (depressed and usually negative subjects to talk about) which will wear you down fast if you get too close and don't have lots of energy to spare. |
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