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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004I have to know for sure
If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want to try one more time to bring myself back into ketosis, restrict just carbs again and keep track of calories carefully just to see what is really going on. In his "New Diet Revolution", in the chapter "The Metabolic Advantage" he describes a case study which adds up to 1,999 calories *per day* of metabolic advantage. Can that really be true? What have I got to lose? I'm going to attempt to bring myself back into ketosis again just to see if that happens. I'll report my journal of carbs and calories every once in a while and let people know what happens. I'm going to keep track of every little carb - even those in seasonings used, like black pepper. I have my scale out and will measure the exact number of grams in every cucumber or mushroom, etc., that I eat. I'm going to get to the bottom of this once and for all! One technical problem - I can't really tell if I am in ketosis or not without getting a urine check for ketone bodies at my doctor. I can't find ketostix here in Tokyo. doug > If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like > Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > doug The bottom line (in terms of enrgy balance),,, Fat is 9 calories/gram, ketones are 4 calories/gram. If you are in ketosis you excrete ketones in urine, breath, etc. Calories are a unit of energy. If you fully oxidise fat (exercise/diet) you release 9 calories/gram. If you partially oxiside fat (exercise/low carb diet) you excrete 4 calores/gram as ketones, and release 9-4=5 calories/grams energy. Your base metabolic rate remains about the same no matter what diet you are on. So if you have an energy deficit (ie are on a "diet" ), you will oxidise more fat when in ketosis. gtoomey > Fat is 9 calories/gram, ketones are 4 calories/gram. If you are in > ketosis you excrete ketones in urine, breath, etc. Calories are a > unit of energy. The ketones excreted represent a negligible amount of energy. Most ketones are further metabolized internally for energy. After the first couple of weeks, you may not excrete ketones at all, even when in ketosis. > Your base metabolic rate remains about the same no matter what diet > you are on. No, this is wrong. The reasons why it is wrong vary, but it is still wrong. >If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like >Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want to >try one more time to bring myself back into ketosis, restrict just carbs >again and keep track of calories carefully just to see what is really going >on. Yes, Doug. It's really true. Really, really, reall, true. But don't just believe me and everyone else who discussed it in the other thread you started on this subject, or even Dr. Atkins, whose book you say you read "cover-to-cover, several times." Listen to these no-kidding, honest-to-Gawd testimonies: "Being in ketosis made me lose weight. Lots of weight. I mean, like seven Backstreet Boys. Woooooo!" -- Little Richard "You know why low-carb works? Ketosis. Nothing but ketosis. Ketosis ketosis ketosis." -- Chow Yun Fat "The metabolic advantage of ketosis is why I'm so slender today. Man, I slip down chimbleys like NOBODY's bidness!" -- Santa Claus "Calories, schmalories. It's ketosis, I tells ya!" -- Joe Pesci "Go with God, my son. And yes, it's the metabolic advantage that makes low-carb work." -- Jesus H. Christ "Apes can read diet books, Otto. They just don't understand them." -- Jamie Lee Curtis. Dawn Dawn, it's hard to tell whether your sarcasm is meant to convey that you really do think ketosis works or that you are making fun of people who think it works. doug On 3/27/04 1:27 PM, in article i30a601usne7r080gcea64k417572erm2p@4ax.com, >> If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like >> Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want to [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dawn :: Dawn, it's hard to tell whether your sarcasm is meant to convey that :: you really do think ketosis works or that you are making fun of :: people who think it works. I think she believes it, at least for certain people (IRs, etc.). She's said as much over and over. And indeed, it may be true of those who are extremely IR...and that may be a part of the reason LC stopped working so easily for you....you started out extremely IR and your sensititivity increased as you lost weight, and now you get less of a metabolic advantage. Sorry, Doug, it happens to all of us :) :: doug :: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] ::: ::: "Apes can read diet books, Otto. They just don't understand them." > Dawn, it's hard to tell whether your sarcasm is meant to convey that you > really do think ketosis works or that you are making fun of people who think > it works. I "read" her as engaging in a bit of silliness as opposed to taking either side. As for your question about how many kilocalories the "metabolic advantage" provides, I think it varies based on a lot of things. I don't think it's a specific amount of energy, except from person-to-person. In other words, you might be able to eat 200 calories more per day in ketosis and lose at the same rate as when not in ketosis, and someone else might find that difference to be 500 calories. Generally, the calories necessary to lose weight on a ketogenic diet are higher than the amount necessary to lose weight when not in ketosis. How much that advantage is for you depends on your starting weight, how much you have to lose, and your insulin resistance. Probably depends on other stuff too. >Dawn, it's hard to tell whether your sarcasm is meant to convey that you >really do think ketosis works or that you are making fun of people who think >it works. Sigh. As Roger said, I believe it's the main reason LC works for people who are insulin resistant. Non-IR people seem to lose mainly because of the lowered calorie consumption. But actually, my sarcasm was aimed at you -- and the fact that you keep asking this same question over and over again, never really digesting the answers you get. Dawn >>If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like >>Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want to [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Dawn "Don't call me stupid!" LOL--I just watched that movie last Sunday... Here's another one: Ever hear of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates??? Low carbers! (probably true, since there was no such thing as refined carbs in their respective days, at least not to a great extent.) CD >Here's another one: >Ever hear of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates??? Low carbers! (probably >true, since there was no such thing as refined carbs in their >respective days, at least not to a great extent.) OOOH I love _The Princess Bride_! We have the Special Edition DVD and my children and I watch it a LOT, even mouthing/saying the words along with the characters! CM Well, if you're willing to do this, Doug, I certainly encourage it. I believe your type of attention to detail is exactly what will be needed to give me confidence in your findings. Honestly, I don't buy the metabolic advantage bullshit. However, I also don't mind being proven wrong, either. I don't remember how much the ketostix cost, but if they aren't overly expensive, I buy some and send them to you. It will my contribution to your "My body, my science experiment" endeavor. I'm going to be out of town today, but I'll check on the price soon. They can't be that much....I think :) :: If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, :: like Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] :: :: doug Thanks - I appreciate it. But I think I'll order them from Amazon and have them sent to my sister's place in Massachusetts. I'm sure she wouldn't mind forwarding them to me. And I promise to keep scrupulous records of both carbs and calories. I'm not going to eat *anything* that I can't find out the correct counts for. doug On 3/27/04 8:25 PM, in article 106ap61g5pr0mb1@corp.supernews.com, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote: > Well, if you're willing to do this, Doug, I certainly encourage it. I > believe your type of attention to detail is exactly what will be needed to [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > :: > :: doug > If there really is a huge metabolic advantage to being in ketosis, like > Atkins describes in his book, I want to know. If it really is true I want to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > doug I absolutely LOVE ketosis. On induction the weight just dropped off, and my energy went up, so I stayed on it (not perfectly, I make variations) for 2 months. I had lost the 15 pounds by then and since then I've been maintaining. When I feel myself gaining ( I use my clothes as a guide ) I go back on an induction path for a couple of days. I know I'm in ketosis because I feel stronger and not hungry. * |
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