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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004

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Atkins and serotonin

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MSchwartz - 29 Mar 2004 15:21 GMT
I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
better on low carb and even reduce psych meds. Does anyone know why the
discrepancy?  Sorry if this has already been covered.
Skinny pre-diabetic-hypoglycemic - 29 Mar 2004 18:33 GMT
>I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
>The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
>This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
>better on low carb and even reduce psych meds.

Dunno who is right, but there's more detail on a similar plan at
www.radiantrecovery.com  It connects with a book called POTATOES NOT
PROZAC.

Skinny --
pre-diab hypo
Harold Groot - 30 Mar 2004 03:30 GMT
>>I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
>>The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
>>This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
>>better on low carb and even reduce psych meds.

>Dunno who is right, but there's more detail on a similar plan at
>www.radiantrecovery.com  It connects with a book called POTATOES NOT
>PROZAC.

The human body has many, many biological processes going on at once.
Very often there are several factors involved in any biological
process (like "production of serotonin").

In the PNP book, they are looking at one specific factor - transport
of the amino acid tryptophan across the blood/brain barrier so it is
available in the brain to be used in making serotonin.

The basic idea is this: there are a limited number of transport cells
for getting amino acids into the brain, and all the amino acids
compete for them.  Under normal conditions, then, not a whole lot of
tryptophan gets through because of the competition from all the other
amino acid molecules that are around.  When insulin is produced,
however, it not only forces glucose into cells, it also forces all the
other amino acids into cells - but not tryptophan.  With the
competition from other amino acids reduced, more typtophan is
transported to the brain.

A great number of people looking at lowcarb diets, however, are not
producing insufficient insulin.  If you look at Dr. Atkins book, he
spends time going into the mechanics of how many people are producing
TOO MUCH insulin.  His diet is aimed at reducing this down to normal
levels.  His main thrust is that EXCESS insulin produces
quickly-falling blood sugar numbers, which causes hunger.  

Even here, the idea is that the insulin actually produced is WORKING.
A great number of overweight people have a condition known as "Insulin
Resistance" or "IR".  This means that the insulin does not work as it
should to get glucose to enter the cells, so in general people with IR
need to produce MORE insulin to reduce their blood sugar.  This is the
first step towards type 2 diabetes.  Now, while I have seen lots of
articles that mention how IR affects =glucose= transport into cells, I
have not seen a study that applied this term to =amino acid= transport
into cells. =IF= (and I want to emphasize that this is an IF, I have
seen no data either way) amino acid transport into cells goes on at a
regular rate when glucose transport is reduced, then every person with
IR is going to have oodles and oodles of tryptophan available in the
brain to make serotonin.  

The idea that "low carb means low serotonin means depression" may well
be true for SOME people.  If their insulin levels are normal (or
perhaps low, because there are built-in margins for error) to begin
with, a low carb diet might reduce their insulin levels and create a
typtophan (and thus a serotonin) deficiency.

In =general=, however, most of the people who have posted on this
newsgroup report that their mood was either unchanged or improved by
going to lowcarb.  That does not, however, give a =random= sample.
There may well be others who tried lowcarb, got depressed and stopped.
Such people would be unlikely to continue to contribute to a lowcarb
support newsgroup. So while we have a lot of anecdotal evidence that
many people reported better moods on lowcarb, we really don't have
hard evidence of what lowcarbing does to the moods of average people,
nor do we have evidence of what lowcarbing does to the moods of people
with high insulin levels (from IR or other causes).
rosie - 30 Mar 2004 16:37 GMT
: >Dunno who is right, but there's more detail on a similar plan at
: >www.radiantrecovery.com  It connects with a book called POTATOES NOT
: >PROZAC.

excellent book for those suffering with chemical
imbalance/depression.

POTATOES NOT PROZAC: A NATURAL SEVEN-STEP PLAN TO: CONTROL YOUR
CRAVINGS AND LOSE WEIGHT RECOGNIZE HOW FOODS AFFECT THE WAY YOU FEEL
STABILIZE THE LEVEL OF SUGAR IN YOUR BLOOD -

- by Kathleen DesMaisons Ph. D.
marengo - 29 Mar 2004 19:39 GMT
>> I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> meds. Does anyone know why the discrepancy?  Sorry if this has
>> already been covered.

It's bull, pure and simple.  The author is trying to sell her own diet.

Many of us have been able to permanently get off of antidepressant
medictions such as Prozac (was Paxil for me) because of our low-carb way of
eating.  It's been know for over a centuryand a half that sugar and starches
can contribute to chemical imbalances in the brain (aka,  hyperactivity in
children).

Sure, sugars and starches are "feel good"  works by giving  a sudden
serotonin rush.  This rush is followed by a devastating crash, leaving a
craving for more sugar and starches.  That's partly why so many of us
are/were fat.    This combined with the same basic rebounds insulin levels
amounts to classic addiction, and she is suggesting more of the addictive
substance to make you feel good.

Crack cocaine also works by giving a sudden rush of a "feel-good"
substance -- dopamine.  Wold any rational person suggest smoking more crack
in order to get off of antidepressants? It amounts to the same thing IMO.
Signature

Peter
270/226/180
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

wossoyi - 30 Mar 2004 02:56 GMT
> Sure, sugars and starches are "feel good"  works by giving  a sudden
> serotonin rush.  This rush is followed by a devastating crash, leaving a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> substance -- dopamine.  Wold any rational person suggest smoking more crack
> in order to get off of antidepressants? It amounts to the same thing IMO.

HEHE.. that's pretty much what freud used cocain for, as an anti-depressant  :)

-i
marengo - 30 Mar 2004 03:41 GMT
>>> Sure, sugars and starches are "feel good"  works by giving  a sudden
>>> serotonin rush.  This rush is followed by a devastating crash,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>
>> -i

Yeah -- I wonder what he did about the paranoid stage that set in after
extended use, followed by the bugs crawling all over him ...  <g>
Signature

Peter
270/226/180
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

TavliGal - 29 Mar 2004 19:43 GMT
>> I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> meds. Does anyone know why the discrepancy?  Sorry if this has
>> already been covered.

I'm not sure who is right or not, or even if there is a right or wrong
answer.  It may very well be a YMMV type of thing.  As for me, who is prone
to depression, but thankfully not bi-polar (it does run in my family), lo
carbing has seemed to lift my spirits a bit.  I do still get depressed and
emotional and generally cannot handle too much stress, but overall my moods
have been better and I'm not so moody.  The question is though, have my
spirits been lifted because I'm now losing weight and am in more control of
what I eat?  Or is the diet itself making me feel this way?  I still don't
know the answer to that, and it would be nice to know.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Monica
Signature

Started 01/20/04
362/323.4/250
________________________________________________________
"Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover
what they lack. - Harry Emerson Fosdick

Priscilla H Ballou - 29 Mar 2004 20:11 GMT
MSchwartz <schwartznospam1@enter.net> quoth:
>I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
>The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
>This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
>better on low carb and even reduce psych meds. Does anyone know why the
>discrepancy?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

They're probably talking about plasma serotonin rather than brain
serotonin.  

Priscilla
tcomeau - 29 Mar 2004 20:20 GMT
> I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
> The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
> This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
> better on low carb and even reduce psych meds. Does anyone know why the
> discrepancy?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

They got it ack basswards. They're doing a chicken and the egg logic
reversal thing here. Friggin' typical of 'em. Not to mention dishonest
and scientifically bogus.

Sugars and other carbs, in nature, come with their own vitamins (ie.
fruits and veggies). The body needs some of these vitamins and folate
to metabolize the sugars and starches. If you eat a lot of refined
carbs (without these vitamins), as on a high carb diet, the body will
use up its stores of b vitamins and folate to metabolize the carbs.
This eventually leads to a depletion of these vitamins.

Tryptophan and niacin are turned to serotonin in the body. Tryptophan
is readily available in our diets. Niacin is a b vitamin. Our bodies
need the same b vitamins and folate mentioned above for our bodies to
be able do convert the tryptophan and niacin to serotonin. Without the
b vitamins and folate we become low in serotonin and thus suffer from
anxiety and depression.

Refined carbs give us a small quick temporary boost of serotonin,
hence the sugar buzz and feeling better for a short period and then
becoming depressed again. The mood swings associated with high-carb
dieting. Meanwhile we are still depleted of b vitamins, folate and
serotonin.

When we go onto a low carb diet we are still deficient of these b
vitamins and we will not get these periodic little boosts of quick
serotonin that high-carbers get. We may get more depressed before we
get enough good carbs to replenish our b vitamin and folate stores.

How do we fix this? Stay away from refined carbs and take a good b
vitamin stress formula supplement. I use Jamieson brand StressEase.
Two a day. In the morning, with breakfast.

Keep on low-carbing. Keep eating the good low-GI vitamin rich foods
that you get on a low-carb diet.

TC
Steven Cook - 29 Mar 2004 23:22 GMT
>I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
>The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
>This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
>better on low carb and even reduce psych meds. Does anyone know why the
>discrepancy?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

I didn't bother reading the link, every time I step on the scales and
see how much weight I've lost on Atkins and feel the joy that brings I
KNOW I have no problems with seratonin levels!

SC
213/176/160
LC since 3/Jan/2004
ATKINS_IS_A_QUACK@ATKINS_IS_A_QUACK.com - 30 Mar 2004 05:04 GMT
>I found this in a bipolar newsletter:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1160088,00.html
>The author says low-carb (Atkins specifically) stops serotonin production.
>This doctor is selling her own diet to enhance serotonin. I know many feel
>better on low carb and even reduce psych meds. Does anyone know why the
>discrepancy?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

ATKINS_IS_A_QUACK
 
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