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Weight Loss Forum / WeightWatchers / May 2005How long does it take you to feel full?
I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really hungry or not. While my thin friends tell me their "fullness trigger" (or whatever it is called) kicks in about 15-20 minutes after they have eaten enough my time is *definitely* much longer - closer to one hour! Is that a typical problem with very overweight people? It would certainly go a long way to explaining overeating. doug Interesting question. I have been trying to eat slower, put my fork down bwt bites and drink more water with dinner to lengthen the time that it takes me to eat. Remember with Core the idea is that you only eat until satisfied. This is way before full. And somewhere past "not hungry". I haven't truely figured out where that magical stopping point is either but I think I am making progress. I try and stop eating as soon as I can feel a bit of pressure on my stomach. To me this is the beginning of getting full. My biggest challenge is leaving food on my plate as I grew up as part of the "you must clean your plate club". I also have made it a habit of only taking a normal serving size of food, 4-6 oz meat, 1/2c rice and a large portion of veggie, as a way of limiting the amount of food on my plate. If I am still hungry then I take some more food or just wait until later and have my yogurt/fruit for dessert. This always fills me up and satisfies my sweet tooth in the evening. I also need to work on not always having this dessert at night. It is more a habit and not out of hunger that I have this treat. I need to knock this one out somehow. You might need to start cutting back on the quantity of food on your plate. It takes time to shrink your stomach. This might also help you get "in touch" with your stomach more. Give it some time. > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > doug > I also have made it a habit of only taking a normal serving size of food, > 4-6 oz meat, 1/2c rice and a large portion of veggie, as a way of limiting > the amount of food on my plate. That is what I am trying to do too. It's interesting that 180 gm of meat basically is as satisfying as 400 gm of meat when you mix it with plenty of vegies and prepare it right! doug it is very heartening to me that you are learning what is satisfied, I am concentrating right now on getting the last bit off but I am working myself into trying core again in the future because I would like to learn this, Lee > Interesting question. I have been trying to eat slower, put my fork down bwt > bites and drink more water with dinner to lengthen the time that it takes me [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > doug My leader says that this concept should also be applied to Flex. This might be one way to silently keep portion size under control. I can also see how this can play an important role in maintenance. Only eating when hungry and only eating until satisfied. Not an easy thing to do. It might not work for you since you need to eat every couple of hours. I know that this was a stumbling block for you the last time. But if you follow this guideline then you might find that you don't really need to eat so often. You body/mind may just be used to it which is why you continue with this pattern. It may be habit not need but only you can figure that one out. > it is very heartening to me that you are learning what is satisfied, I am > concentrating right now on getting the last bit off but I am working myself [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > > > doug I tend toward hypoglycemia and that is why I eat often, having said that, as I lose and eat better it does seem that the time in between does get longer. This is also affected by level of activity and quality of the food I eat. My goal is to be able to comfortable go for 4 hours without eating, some days I can do it other I can't, Lee > My leader says that this concept should also be applied to Flex. This might > be one way to silently keep portion size under control. I can also see how [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > > > > > > doug Another great NSV for you. > I tend toward hypoglycemia and that is why I eat often, having said that, as > I lose and eat better it does seem that the time in between does get longer. [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > > > > > > > doug thanks I never thought of it that way but going for longer periods of time without eating is a pretty nice NSV as it means less thinking about food, being more "normal", thanks again for pointing that out, and I guess it also means I am healthier overall, Lee, feeling great now > Another great NSV for you. > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > doug For me it is a by-product of doing the core program. My cravings and thinking of food have been greatly diminished. This makes it possible to go longer between meals. I think it also is an indication that the blood sugar levels are being kept level. That is a good thing. > thanks I never thought of it that way but going for longer periods of time > without eating is a pretty nice NSV as it means less thinking about food, [quoted text clipped - 113 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doug you are right of course, Lee > For me it is a by-product of doing the core program. My cravings and > thinking of food have been greatly diminished. This makes it possible to go [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doug That's a great NSV Lee! Congratulations! >I tend toward hypoglycemia and that is why I eat often, having said that, >as [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] >> > > > >> > > > doug as I said to Laura, I never thought of it that way but it is actually a terrific one as it not only means less focus on food but being a real representation of improved health, Lee, thanking you for pointing it out > That's a great NSV Lee! Congratulations! > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > >> > > > > >> > > > doug Hmmm.. I'm here as a MEMBER not a leader... so take what I say as a friend to friend advice.. not as a WW leader on duty ! ;op You don't have to do core to work on that.. I sure don't and am starting to get it.. (finally ;op) In your Week one (p. 29) book you have the "hunger scale" with the 6 levels of hungers (or however you call it).. use it.. put it on the fridge.. make yourself a little plastified hand held model of it.. WHATEVER... but don't forget the mark the "comfort zone" BUT when you go to eat, start by seeing where you are on that chart.. just that.. am I hungry really ? just getting hungry ? not hungry at all ? starving ? take time to figure it out... After you've eaten (about 20-25 minutes) look at the chart again.. where are you now ? Did you eat enough ? too much ? just fine ? are you satisfied or totally rolling off the table ? practice practice practice.. the first MONTH I did that I couldn't really figure it out.. I was always starving... then I started to make the difference between starving and just being bored/mad/nervous.. takes time.. takes practice ! You've come a long way M'lady.. listen to your body.. it'll reward you for all your good work ;o)  SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > it is very heartening to me that you are learning what is satisfied, I am > concentrating right now on getting the last bit off but I am working myself [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > > > doug I can tell hunger and when I get the shakes I know what I can eat to cure that. The real issue I think is that I never get full because I eat just enough to stop the shakes. What I am working towards is getting healthy enough that this problem is reduced. I started eating ever 4/5 hours and having the shakes so bad that I way over ate. now I can eat every 2/3 hours and eat small points and get by, I would really like to learn this but will be happy with keeping enough structure and getting healthy enough that I can go 4 hours without feeling shaky, Lee, working at it > Hmmm.. I'm here as a MEMBER not a leader... so take what I say as a friend > to friend advice.. not as a WW leader on duty ! ;op [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > > > > > > > doug Sounds like you are very in touch with your hunger-comfort zone. That is not an easy thing to understand. We had a "refresher" course discussion on it at our meeting Saturday morning. I'm trying to apply those ideas to my own eating now. So far I've done really well. I just hope that I can continue long enough so that it is imprinted in my brain. I'm getting better at only eating when hungry and using the 3 hour rule. Its the "stop when satisfied" part that needs a LOT of work. > I can tell hunger and when I get the shakes I know what I can eat to cure > that. The real issue I think is that I never get full because I eat just [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > > > > > > > > > doug I am like you, I can tell real hunger from I just want to eat, I know when I need to eat to fix my blood sugar levels, what is so hard is that I plain like the taste of food and I like the act of eating so when I get started I want to eat all that is prepared. Portion control and no seconds is what saves me, I am rarely really full but I hope to figure out satisfied one day, Lee > Sounds like you are very in touch with your hunger-comfort zone. That is not > an easy thing to understand. We had a "refresher" course discussion on it at [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > doug I would not be able to go 4 hours without food.. unthinkable.. which is why I eat 6-8 meals a day.. and when I don't I don't do well.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I can tell hunger and when I get the shakes I know what I can eat to cure > that. The real issue I think is that I never get full because I eat just [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > > > > > > > > > doug I can actually go four hours some days depending on my activity level, I think given my progress that it will always be more than three meals for me but I hope to get it up to four hours apart consistently, that would be enough for me, Lee > I would not be able to go 4 hours without food.. unthinkable.. which is why > I eat 6-8 meals a day.. and when I don't I don't do well.. [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > doug For me, it takes about ten minutes. Knowing this, I eat a carefully measured portion and then wait the ten minutes without additional eating. (I'm not a WW person, but I liked Doug's question.) > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > doug Great question Doug. I seem to feel full after about 15-20 minutes as well, but most times this full feeling means I've already eaten too much. I think what we need to concentrate on is figuring out when we're not hungry any longer and stopping at that point. Perhaps we should take lessons from our children - who seem to know when they are no longer hungry, but not "full" either. My son is good at this now - he's almost 4 and nice and slim - wonder what he'll be like when he's older??? SignatureBrenda 209/197/155 > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > doug I think that instead of trying to figure out "how much CAN I eat before the full sign clicks on" we should work on "How much do I NEED to eat for the hunger sign to go off"... I'm trying very hard to go away from the mentality of "ok how much can I get away with" and go to the idea of "what do I need to fuel my body"... Hey.. I'm a weirdo you know ? ;o) SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > doug This is a very good point and is probably a very sensible approach, Lee > I think that instead of trying to figure out "how much CAN I eat before the > full sign clicks on" we should work on "How much do I NEED to eat for the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > doug > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Is that a typical problem with very overweight people? It would > certainly go a long way to explaining overeating. ================================ The problem with almost all overweight/obese people is lack of portion control! They over eat constantly. Why not use common sense and eat only 1 small potato instead of several under a mound of butter? Why not 2 small pork chops instead of a plateful? Why buy a big Mac when a regular is quite enough? It's lack of self control and lack of portion control. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as being an overweight person) was just too stupid to make the right choices.. what was I thinking.. Oh.. and all the uneducated and illiterate people of the world are just too lazy to study that's all... Oh... and poor people should just be intelligent enough to get an education and a job... what are they thinking ????????? (by the way I lived on the street for a while) Everyday of my life I'm impressed by the new ways people find to be condescending and judgemental... that's one thing that really pisses me off... deliberate stupidity.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > > > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > pork chops instead of a plateful? Why buy a big Mac when a regular is quite > enough? It's lack of self control and lack of portion control. > OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as being > an overweight person) was just too stupid to make the right choices.. what > was I thinking.. ## Not stupid - uncaring. The food was more important than your health and figure. No need to be a nuclear physicist to figure that one out. > Oh.. and all the uneducated and illiterate people of the world are just too > lazy to study that's all... ## No need to study - it's on TV and in the papers all the time. > Oh... and poor people should just be intelligent enough to get an education > and a job... what are they thinking ????????? (by the way I lived on the > street for a while) ## Who's talking about a college degree to learn portion control??? > Everyday of my life I'm impressed by the new ways people find to be > condescending and judgemental... that's one thing that really pisses me > off... deliberate stupidity.. ## Lots of things piss me off too..... SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Hope you're happy under your bridge.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > > > OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... teehee. my thoughts exactly. She was labeled one back in 2003 for basically the same topic. > Hope you're happy under your bridge.. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... I kinda new at the first message... but couldn't resist.. you'd think that after over 10 years online I'd know better than waste my time but hey.. I'm a big mouth ! *gin* SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > teehee. my thoughts exactly. She was labeled one back in 2003 for basically > the same topic. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > > > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established she lives under a bridge! (G) But holding finger up to detect the wind and sniffing the air, I believe you may be right. Water and foolish eaters seem to be this year's driving force. Oh, yeah, and WW had it right 40 years ago. >teehee. my thoughts exactly. She was labeled one back in 2003 for basically >the same topic. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> > >> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... *Stares blindly in nothingness* Yes My lord... you are right my Lord... ;op SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established > she lives under a bridge! (G) [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >> > > >> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... > Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established > she lives under a bridge! (G) > > But holding finger up to detect the wind and sniffing the air, I > believe you may be right. Water and foolish eaters seem to be this > year's driving force. Oh, yeah, and WW had it right 40 years ago. ======================== Yep Fred! Forty years ago everyone who stuck to the WW plan lost weight, unlike today. Why is it so hard to accept that? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Strange that I lost nearly 100 pounds sticking to the actual plan. Then again I 'm probably anecdotal :-) SignatureNathalie from Belgium 134.1/92.9/minigoal 90.1/ Goal 68 Kg 295.6/204.8/minigoal 200.6/Goal 150 pounds WLL : 207.5/204.8/195.5 lbs 94.1/92.9/88.7 Kg > > > Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Yep Fred! Forty years ago everyone who stuck to the WW plan lost weight, > unlike today. Why is it so hard to accept that? I know Europe has some small countries and principalities but where exactly is Anecdotal? Is it close to Belgium? Listen, THE PROGRAM does not work for her. Water does not work for her (as we know NORMAL people feel thirst and drink - hey, maybe heavy people are not quite normal or they would not be heavy and maybe they do need to push water since it might actually curb their hunger!!! Why does she tend to bring out the worst or is that thirst in people? Okay, I will back off and bow out. >Strange that I lost nearly 100 pounds sticking to the actual plan. Then >again I 'm probably anecdotal :-) > Strange that I lost nearly 100 pounds sticking to the actual plan. Then > again I 'm probably anecdotal :-) ========================= But you're not "everyone" my dear. Have you read the article in the NYTimes about these diets? Of course there are those who lose weight on any diet, unfortunately, most people don't lose more than something like 5% of their body weight over time. Most people followed gain it back, plus MORE! I can honestly say I don't know anyone who failed on the original WW plan. All lost considerable weight, more than 5%, but how many kept it off? That I don't know.... Has WW posted or printed their statistics anywhere? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== me also, in one of the other groups when this happens we have a trollb q and at the first sign of this behavior we begin posting recipes, Lee Quick snack for the sweet tooth: 16 ounces your favorite coffee, 1 TBSP dry unsweetened cocoa Mix together sweeten to taste, > Strange that I lost nearly 100 pounds sticking to the actual plan. Then > again I 'm probably anecdotal :-) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > ========================================== because I have lost 95 pounds and have my life back from today's plan, Lee > > Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established > > she lives under a bridge! (G) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > ========================================== > because I have lost 95 pounds and have my life back from today's plan, Lee 48.5 on today's plan here. Works for me. SignatureKate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! Almost 70 pounds here. I think the current plan works just fine. > because I have lost 95 pounds and have my life back from today's plan, Lee > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > ========================================== I am going to chime in here. Almost 70 lbs on the current plan. Debbie > because I have lost 95 pounds and have my life back from today's plan, Lee >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> 171/ 167 / 140 lb >> ========================================== LOL till I fell off the couch, Lee > Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established > she lives under a bridge! (G) [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >> > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > >> > ========================================== I hope your tushy is okay since it has a lot less padding! (G) >LOL till I fell off the couch, Lee >> Buzzzzzzz - sorry - anedotal. You have not scientifically established [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> >> > 171/ 167 / 140 lb >> >> > ========================================== *grins widely but says nothing* SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I hope your tushy is okay since it has a lot less padding! (G) > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >> >> > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > >> >> > ========================================== was worth the pain, Lee > I hope your tushy is okay since it has a lot less padding! (G) > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >> >> > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > >> >> > ========================================== Mine too. I remember her in 2003. > teehee. my thoughts exactly. She was labeled one back in 2003 for > basically [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> > >> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... Was also trolling another group I used to belong to.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Mine too. I remember her in 2003. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >> > > >> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... I try to be friendly, but I'm thisclose to blowing a fuse with her. I had hoped it wouldn't degenerate into this this quickly.... SignatureJulie. 93.5/73.9/74 (WW)/72 (Personal) kg 205.7/162.6/162.8 (WW)/158 (Personal) lb Here's our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ and welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html > Mine too. I remember her in 2003. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>> > >>> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... I suggest we just ignore her. You know the old expression. "don't feed a troll".... > I try to be friendly, but I'm thisclose to blowing a fuse with her. I had > hoped it wouldn't degenerate into this this quickly.... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >>> > > >>> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... My thoughts exactly. In fact that's why I didn't react to her earlier reply to my posting to Glenn B. >I suggest we just ignore her. You know the old expression. "don't feed a > troll".... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >>> > >> >>> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... I was hoping that history would not repeat itself so I gave her a fair chance. Did not take long for her to show her true colors. Last time it took quite a while for us to catch on. I will refrain from responding to her messges here. > My thoughts exactly. In fact that's why I didn't react > to her earlier reply to my posting to Glenn B. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >> >>> > > >> >>> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... Me too. >I was hoping that history would not repeat itself so I gave her a fair > chance. Did not take long for her to show her true colors. Last time it [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > ## Lots of things piss me off too..... > I try to be friendly, but I'm thisclose to blowing a fuse with her. I had > hoped it wouldn't degenerate into this this quickly.... =========================== Why? Why act like we're discussing religion and someone is running into your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do not follow the WW program and then complain about it. You take exception to any suggestions. No, water is not gospel. Neither is being exactly on core (at least, that's my take) and I will discuss such merits or demerits. But you appear to be looking for something that does not exist. An old program which worked when you were in your 20's. And maybe all those folks regained which is why WW has tweaked the program. Maybe those strict rules and making one's own ketchup was too much for most NORMAL people with ABNORMAL weight problems. Folks can lose weight without exercise whether you believe it or not. Maybe they can't exercise. Maybe the hate exercise. They will lose slower but if they follow the program they can lose. Yup, there are clearly exceptions to any rule and any diet. I was sixty pounds overweight and got lots of exercise, tons of exercise, thousands of vertical feet of exercise and 100's of saddle-miles of exercise. It did not solve my problem. You're right - no willpower or divine power or diet power. My problem but at the moment WW has solved it for _ME_ You have already noted NORMAL people feel thirst and respond accordingly. Well, maybe those of us with weight problems don't and so drinking water works. Or it may be a placebo. Who the hell cares. Find some diet that works for you and start you own darn program. Yes, we all know many dieters fail but we hope against hope to fight the good fight and fight the tide. We are here to say we are going to be different. We support each other by suggesting water or suggesting exercise or suggesting alternative meals or ingredient or....This place is not sponsored by WW which does its program for profit. We are a mutual admiration society and you seem to not get off on that type of behavior. Why not drop into "fat acceptance" where they tend to slap others around. Or the weightlifters group where it sounds as if they take no prisoners either. Frankly, you have now, at least, twice come forward as a chronic complainer. So, either really try WW or take your negative thoughts to another group - PLEASE. >> I try to be friendly, but I'm thisclose to blowing a fuse with her. I had >> hoped it wouldn't degenerate into this this quickly.... >=========================== >Why? Why act like we're discussing religion and someone is running into >your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? Go Fred! > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. You take [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed > >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? Couldn't bow out? You said it well my dear! Congrats! SignatureBrenda 209/197/155 > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. You take [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >>your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed >>to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? I did try to restrain myself in some other threads or earlier in this one. But just got tired. Maybe she drove me to wasabi potato chips or they drove me. I hope I am finished. I plan on ignoring her complaints. I gave her references to older program materials maybe she will find her salvation. >Couldn't bow out? You said it well my dear! Congrats! Perhaps she will. At least I hope she does and as for the rest of us, well...we're here to support each other and that's what we'll continue to do and do so well! How much rain are you getting down there? Here's a link to Environment Canada's forecast for our area for the next 5 days. http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! SignatureBrenda 209/197/155 >I did try to restrain myself in some other threads or earlier in this > one. But just got tired. Maybe she drove me to wasabi potato chips [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >>Couldn't bow out? You said it well my dear! Congrats! Yesterday was dry and warm again - 62F, another new record. Rain today but on and off, and some hard and some thick mist. Friday sounds somewhat dry but the weekend is hose time. Our rivers are still way up and there's lots of flooding. I think most of our ski areas are closed. They lost a lot of what little snow they did have. Rocks and shrubs everywhere. A friend is heading up to the Kokanees outside of Nelson and is concerned about the terrible weather. And I heard an American (ah, our provincial way of saying a US citizen) was killed in an avalanche up there somewhere today. >Perhaps she will. At least I hope she does and as for the rest of >us, well...we're here to support each other and that's what we'll [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! I'm driving off to Napa again tomorrow.. I REALLY LOVE working those meetings.. the groups are so much fun and the drive IS incredible all the way through wine country (I'm in Rohnert Park between Santa Rosa and Petaluma in north Cali.. so it's about an hour of driving in gentle hills... around Farms.. and wineries...) Of course first time I drove it it was a rain storm.. and last week the fog was thick enough to walk on.. hopefully it'll be good tomorrow *grin* and I have to go to Santa Rosa first.. O-O SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Yesterday was dry and warm again - 62F, another new record. Rain > today but on and off, and some hard and some thick mist. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! Rub it in and we will arrange to have you sent back to Canada! (G) >I'm driving off to Napa again tomorrow.. I REALLY LOVE working those >meetings.. the groups are so much fun and the drive IS incredible all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >was thick enough to walk on.. hopefully it'll be good tomorrow *grin* and I >have to go to Santa Rosa first.. O-O Nooooooooooooooo nooooooooooooooo nooooooooo my aunt is a walker.. she walks everyday.. she lives about 10 minutes from my parent's house (on foot and that's taking the long way around) and the snow storm was so bad she stopped at my parents and asked if she could spend the night.. O-O I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv California.. here ain't San Diego.. we do get to the freezing point.. but it beats East Canada any time of the year !!! SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Rub it in and we will arrange to have you sent back to Canada! (G) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >was thick enough to walk on.. hopefully it'll be good tomorrow *grin* and I > >have to go to Santa Rosa first.. O-O best of luck on the drive, My best friend from high school lives in Santa Rosa near her mother, Lee > I'm driving off to Napa again tomorrow.. I REALLY LOVE working those > meetings.. the groups are so much fun and the drive IS incredible all the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! You gotta come and visit ! SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > best of luck on the drive, My best friend from high school lives in Santa > Rosa near her mother, Lee [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! I will when I figure out how to get DH to drive it, I am done flying, Lee > You gotta come and visit ! > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! ooooooooo long drive... SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I will when I figure out how to get DH to drive it, I am done flying, Lee > > You gotta come and visit ! [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! too long probably, Lee > ooooooooo long drive... > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > > > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! Beautiful though... can you imagine crossing hte rockies ????? not in winter ! SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > too long probably, Lee > > ooooooooo long drive... [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > > > > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > > > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! >Beautiful though... can you imagine crossing hte rockies ????? not in winter Did it many times between Calgary and Vancouver. That's what snowplows, and winter tires are for. Shirley Hicks Toronto, Ontario I know all about those... grew up and lived most of my life in snowcountry (Quebec)... doesn't mean I have to like it.. I'm good at driving in snow... as a result of flying off the road often enough to learn better *grin* but I can't imagine going up and down mountains.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > > >Beautiful though... can you imagine crossing hte rockies ????? not in winter [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Shirley Hicks > Toronto, Ontario don't want to imagine, Lee > Beautiful though... can you imagine crossing hte rockies ????? not in winter > ! [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > > > > > > > >http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 > > > > > > > > >We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! Rain here this morning, but nice in the afternoon and some sun too - not much mind you. I think I'll be hiding out inside and painting the spare room this weekend! This is the first I've heard of any avalanche. Unfortunate that things like this happen. I searched the Global BC site, but couldn't find any mention of it. Maybe wasn't even reported on our news here as there is so much "other" stuff going on with all the rain, floods, mudslides, etc. > Yesterday was dry and warm again - 62F, another new record. Rain > today but on and off, and some hard and some thick mist. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?BC-3 >>We're going to need hip waders before the week is up! > I did try to restrain myself in some other threads or earlier in this > one. But just got tired. Maybe she drove me to wasabi potato chips [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > references to older program materials maybe she will find her > salvation. ============================ If you gave reference to the 1960s material it did not show up on my news-server. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. ** How can anyone keep up with all the CHANGES in the program? Every few moths they're changing something. I am following what I was told was so effective in 2001/2002. You take > exception to any suggestions. No, water is not gospel. ** When I took your suggestions the last time there was no effect on weight loss. I tried the extra water and it made no difference. Neither is > being exactly on core (at least, that's my take) and I will discuss > such merits or demerits. But you appear to be looking for something > that does not exist. ** I am looking for a diet that works like the low-carb diet did for 5 months. I am also looking for the ORIGINAL WW diet plan that worked so well for everyone in the 1960s. An old program which worked when you were in > your 20's. And maybe all those folks regained which is why WW has > tweaked the program. ** It worked for all of us who tried it. I never regained the 20 lost lbs until my thyroid quit working. If it didn't why would I bother now? My Aunt was in her 50s at the time. Maybe those strict rules and making one's own > ketchup was too much for most NORMAL people with ABNORMAL weight > problems. ** I don't recall making Ketchup. :-) But then I don't like ketchup, mayo or mustard. > Folks can lose weight without exercise whether you believe it or not. > Maybe they can't exercise. Maybe the hate exercise. They will lose [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > power or diet power. My problem but at the moment WW has solved it > for _ME_ ** And I'm happy for you. :-) > You have already noted NORMAL people feel thirst and respond > accordingly. Well, maybe those of us with weight problems don't and > so drinking water works. Or it may be a placebo. Who the hell cares. > Find some diet that works for you and start you own darn program. ** I can't locate a copy of the original WW plan. I've looked everywhere including the local library and used book stores. > Yes, we all know many dieters fail but we hope against hope to fight > the good fight and fight the tide. We are here to say we are going to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > complainer. So, either really try WW or take your negative thoughts > to another group - PLEASE. ** Thanks! SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== > > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > months. I am also looking for the ORIGINAL WW diet plan that worked so well > for everyone in the 1960s. Here's the one from the 70's: http://www.dottisweightlosszone.com/WWinfo/old1972ww.html Maybe thats close enough to what you remember. > An old program which worked when you were in > > your 20's. And maybe all those folks regained which is why WW has [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > ** Thanks! > Here's the one from the 70's: > http://www.dottisweightlosszone.com/WWinfo/old1972ww.html > Maybe thats close enough to what you remember. ====================== Yes, thank you. This looks very close to what I remember. :o) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Don't hold back Fred ! Say it like it is ! *grin* well said ! SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. You take [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed > >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? thank you, If I were single I would be on your doorstep, Lee > People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do > not follow the WW program and then complain about it. You take [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >your church yelling "God doesn't exist?" Is everyone on this NG supposed > >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions asked? I am definitely no angel - far from perfect. She just got to me the other day. >thank you, If I were single I would be on your doorstep, Lee >> People are here for mutual support. Naysayers need not apply. You do [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions >asked? You ? No angel ? and I there I was thinking.. *shakes head* ;op we gotta let it out sometimes... SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I am definitely no angel - far from perfect. She just got to me the > other day. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions > >asked? You just ruined my day! I thought you were an angel too :-( >I am definitely no angel - far from perfect. She just got to me the > other day. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >>> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions >>asked? Well, sorry to dash so many hopeful humans! (G) >You just ruined my day! I thought you were an angel too :-( > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>>> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions >>>asked? How could you ??????????????? SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Well, sorry to dash so many hopeful humans! (G) > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >>>> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions > >>>asked? Hey, if I were an angel and perfect I would ignore the rain out THERE and go hiking rather than sitting at my computer. Altho, I did use the Nordic Track for 15 minutes this morning - boring >How could you ??????????????? I've got a treadmill downstairs, but can't bring myself to use the damn thing, I'd rather be outside too! It's pouring here, but I may get out later and do something :-) swimming??? > Hey, if I were an angel and perfect I would ignore the rain out THERE > and go hiking rather than sitting at my computer. Altho, I did use > the Nordic Track for 15 minutes this morning - boring > >>How could you ??????????????? > I've got a treadmill downstairs, but can't bring myself to use the damn > thing, I'd rather be outside too! It's pouring here, but I may get out > later and do something :-) swimming??? Well, if it's raining *that* hard... ;D SignatureKate XXXXXX Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! We're forecast to get 140mm over the next 24 hours ;-0 >> I've got a treadmill downstairs, but can't bring myself to use the damn >> thing, I'd rather be outside too! It's pouring here, but I may get out >> later and do something :-) swimming??? > > Well, if it's raining *that* hard... ;D I just spent a fortune on new telemark skis at REI about 10 minutes ago. I basically reserved them as this was the last pair in a good length. I may return them. Drizzling here. Most of the storm is UP your way from what doppler shows. A friend has to walk his dog so I agreed while his wife is out getting him a copy of Photoshop CS (the new one!!!) Swimming may work. They had some aerial shots of the mountains yesterday talking about spring/summer water. There is NO SNOW!!! It is a bit frightening. >I've got a treadmill downstairs, but can't bring myself to use the damn >thing, I'd rather be outside too! It's pouring here, but I may get out [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>>How could you ??????????????? tsk tsk tsk... Here it's foggy but no rain... or so they say.. we're planning a long walk with the doggie ! SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Hey, if I were an angel and perfect I would ignore the rain out THERE > and go hiking rather than sitting at my computer. Altho, I did use > the Nordic Track for 15 minutes this morning - boring > > >How could you ??????????????? good I wouldn't date an angel, Lee > I am definitely no angel - far from perfect. She just got to me the > other day. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >> >to chant the same thing and march to the same drummer; no questions > >asked? its almost time for that filter button again, Lee > Hope you're happy under your bridge.. > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > ========================================== The thing that pisses me off the most is useless advice from people who are not proving by results that what they say works. I hate using the kilfile but in this case I'll make an exception before I implode. Enough negativity already! Lynne Highest Weight - 308 WW Start Weight this time around - 222.4 Weight this week - 217.4 Goal - 150 (Subject to change) "Change doesn't happen while you're sitting around." >> OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as >being [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >## Lots of things piss me off too..... I swear we are related, Lee > OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as being > an overweight person) was just too stupid to make the right choices.. what [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > ========================================== ;o) SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > I swear we are related, Lee > > OF COURSE !!!!!!!!!! Why haven't I figured that all by myself ? I (as [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > > ========================================== >The problem with almost all overweight/obese people is lack of portion >control! They over eat constantly. Why not use common sense and eat only 1 >small potato instead of several under a mound of butter? Why not 2 small >pork chops instead of a plateful? Why buy a big Mac when a regular is quite >enough? It's lack of self control and lack of portion control. I agree with the lack of portion control I'm not sure that 'self control' comes into it. You open up an arguement about fat people being weak. Thats a stereotype that is unhelpful at best. I think the overweight are like everyone else (some 'weak-willed' some 'strong-willed'). The only reason people get overweight is that they eat too many calories, and you don't measure self control in calories. Ray Signature2002 1.8i eternal red > >The problem with almost all overweight/obese people is lack of portion > >control! They over eat constantly. Why not use common sense and eat only 1 > >small potato instead of several under a mound of butter? Why not 2 small > >pork chops instead of a plateful? Why buy a big Mac when a regular is quite > >enough? It's lack of self control and lack of portion control. > I agree with the lack of portion control ## They don't want to hear anything like that. It *IS* lack of portion control, plus eating a lot of empty calorie junk food that causes obesity. And lack of exercise. I've seen almost no posts here regarding exercise. Try talking about it and they call you a troll. You're either into their fantasy or you're a troll. The NYTimes recently had an article on these diet (like WW, L.A. Weight Loss etc) plans that simply do not work for the vast majority of people. Sometimes when I read this NG it's like some of the regulars (who are still obese after 4 years of WW dieting) are living in a fantasy world. > I'm not sure that 'self control' comes into it. You open up an > arguement about fat people being weak. ## Ray, the self control comes in right at the grocery store as on Dr. told me. Why put the items in the shopping-cart to start with? Why purchase them? Why have them in the house? So part of it is self-control. You think I'm not tempted when I walk pass the nuts and cookies etc.? Everyone is.... Thats a stereotype that is > unhelpful at best. I think the overweight are like everyone else (some > 'weak-willed' some 'strong-willed'). ## Exactly! > The only reason people get overweight is that they eat too many > calories, and you don't measure self control in calories. ## This is true. It all comes down to "eat less and move more!" > Ray > 2002 1.8i eternal red SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== >The problem with almost all overweight/obese people is lack of portion >control! They over eat constantly. Why not use common sense and eat only 1 >small potato instead of several under a mound of butter? Why not 2 small >pork chops instead of a plateful? Why buy a big Mac when a regular is quite >enough? It's lack of self control and lack of portion control. I don't eat butter. I've never eaten more than one pork chop in a meal, ever in my life. I hate McDonalds and most fast food. So why did I get fat? Why are you still over-weight, for that matter, if its so easy? The reasons for obesity are many and complex, neurological as well as psycho-social. Scientists have discovered a "fat gene", some people have a poorer appetite control mechanism than others, some people have emotional issues that make them feel compelled and obsessive about eating, even to their own detriment. To claim its all "self control and portion control" is utterly simplistic and doesn't work for most of us - including you, evidently. SignatureAnna H. > >The problem with almost all overweight/obese people is lack of portion > >control! They over eat constantly. Why not use common sense and eat only 1 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I've never eaten more than one pork chop in a meal, ever in my life. > I hate McDonalds and most fast food. ## Me too! :-) I gained all 80 lbs when my thyroid stopped working at the same time I developed fasciitis and was bed ridden for 18 months. I was thin all my life. Although I had all the symptoms of hypothyroidism my first Dr missed it completely. > So why did I get fat? Why are you still over-weight, for that matter, if > its so easy? ## No one said losing weight is EASY. We all know it isn't What's easy is portion control and avoiding fattening foods and treats. It's also easy to leave these foods at the supermarket when we shop and not buy them. > The reasons for obesity are many and complex, neurological as well as > psycho-social. Scientists have discovered a "fat gene", some people have > a poorer appetite control mechanism than others, some people have > emotional issues that make them feel compelled and obsessive about > eating, even to their own detriment. ## Unfortunately that is true. I never believed thyroid problems could cause massive weight gain - I found out it can! > To claim its all "self control and portion control" is utterly > simplistic and doesn't work for most of us - including you, evidently. ## I have no problem sticking to any diet I've been on. Portion control is no problem. I have a scale and measuring cup. I leave the high-calorie foods at the grocery store. Only one diet worked, and worked for only 5 months, and that was low-carb. Had my body not started to convert the protein to carbohydrates I would have reached goal weight that spring (2003). > Anna H. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== >## I have no problem sticking to any diet I've been on. Portion control >is no problem. I have a scale and measuring cup. I leave the high-calorie >foods at the grocery store. Only one diet worked, and worked for only 5 >months, and that was low-carb. Had my body not started to convert the >protein to carbohydrates I would have reached goal weight that spring >(2003). As you know, weight control is fairly simple. If you eat less than you expend and wait long enough your weight will come down. If your weight stays the same you are eating too much. Thyroid problem make it very difficult to lose weight but not impossible. Besides I understood your medical conditions were under control now. Don't try to kid us that your body started converting protein to carbs and that's why you got fat 'cos no-one here will buy that. You are still overweight cos you continue to eat too much. Ray Signature2002 1.8i eternal red > >## I have no problem sticking to any diet I've been on. Portion control > >is no problem. I have a scale and measuring cup. I leave the high-calorie [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > expend and wait long enough your weight will come down. If your weight > stays the same you are eating too much. $$ This is true. > Thyroid problem make it very difficult to lose weight but not > impossible. Besides I understood your medical conditions were under > control now. $$ Yes they are. :-) > Don't try to kid us that your body started converting protein to carbs > and that's why you got fat 'cos no-one here will buy that. $$ Read the low-carb and Atkin's information. You don't NEED carbs to live. Your body can convert protein to all the carbs you need. I didn't know that either. You are > still overweight cos you continue to eat too much. $$ This is true. Now, back on WW, I am "hungry" all the time, but am losing weight. So yes it takes a lot of self control and will power not to have that second pear or cup of Yogurt.. > Ray SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== >$$ Read the low-carb and Atkin's information. You don't NEED carbs to >live. Your body can convert protein to all the carbs you need. I didn't >know that either. Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest people don't need carbs please. And also those that suggest that the body converts protein to carbs in any appreciable quantity. Thanks Ray . Signature2002 1.8i eternal red > >$$ Read the low-carb and Atkin's information. You don't NEED carbs to > >live. Your body can convert protein to all the carbs you need. I didn't > >know that either. > > Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest > people don't need carbs please. ## Please see almost any website concerning low-carb diets. There are societies that seldom see any carbs such the Eskimos and other far northern societies of people. I don't save the URLS to all the websites I visit. > And also those that suggest that the body converts protein to carbs in > any appreciable quantity. $$ See above. You're body gets better at it as time passes. You will *not* suffer a carbohydrate deficiency. There are people (see the old NYTimes article on the subject) who have been on strict Atkins for over 15 years who are in perfect health. You can't live without consuming fats and proteins - you can survive nicely without carbs. :-) Keep in mind that carbs fatten humans as well and as quickly as they fatten animals or fowl. While low-carbing I consumed around 20g of carbs a day and remained in perfect health those 2+ years. I stuck to low-carb veggies so did not exist solely on meat. > Thanks > > Ray Wysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== >> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest >> people don't need carbs please. > >## Please see almost any website concerning low-carb diets. You keep telling others to stop saying that water helps weight loss 'cos there's no science behind it - so you come up with the papers that prove your points or shut up. Ray Signature2002 1.8i eternal red >>> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest >>> people don't need carbs please. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ray To say "people don't need carbs" is quite an exaggeration, although it could be true in the literal sense. Strictly speaking there are two problems with that statement: 1. It is possible to survive without more than trace carbohydrate - studies into the old pre-insulin, low-carb diabetic diet, and the ketogenic (low carb) diets for epileptics show that survival is possible. However, these extreme diets have many side-effects including vitamin deficiency, risk of kidney stones, pancreatitis, nausea, vomiting and symptoms of starvation. So, although you can survive, you can't survive very healthily and it's only really worth it if the alternative is worse ie. Diabetes in the world before insulin or epilepsy that doesn't respond to medication. 2. It is impossible to entirely avoid carbs as they are in every single food we eat, so the statement is a moot point anyway. SignatureAnna H. > >>> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest > >>> people don't need carbs please. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > To say "people don't need carbs" is quite an exaggeration, although it > could be true in the literal sense. ## It is true! You're body, just like an Eskimos, has the ability to remove one nitrogen atom from the protein molecule to make all it's own carbs. I think I remembered that sequence right. I read the articles almost 3 years ago. I did a lot of research before I started the Atkins-type diet in July of 2001. > Strictly speaking there are two problems with that statement: > 1. It is possible to survive without more than trace carbohydrate - > studies into the old pre-insulin, low-carb diabetic diet, and the > ketogenic (low carb) diets for epileptics show that survival is > possible. ## Keep in mind that even the low-carb diets allow some carbs. You get them from the greens and low-carb veggies you do eat. If your body needs MORE carbs it simply converts some protein to make what it needs. However, these extreme diets have many side-effects including > vitamin deficiency, risk of kidney stones, pancreatitis, nausea, > vomiting and symptoms of starvation. ## You're talking long-term *extreme* diets which the low-carb diets are not. Keep that in mind. According to what the NYTimes article reported last year there was no mention of the problems you mention above. Have you checked the low-carb chats or NG? So, although you can survive, you > can't survive very healthily and it's only really worth it if the > alternative is worse ie. Diabetes in the world before insulin or > epilepsy that doesn't respond to medication. ## Again, I remind you that low-carb diets are NOT no-carb diets. :-))) > 2. It is impossible to entirely avoid carbs as they are in every single > food we eat, so the statement is a moot point anyway. ## Exactly! Even a cup of spinach has a few carbs. > Anna H. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Go Ray! >>> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest >>> people don't need carbs please. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ray > >> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest > >> people don't need carbs please. > > > >## Please see almost any website concerning low-carb diets. ======================== > You keep telling others to stop saying that water helps weight loss > 'cos there's no science behind it - so you come up with the papers > that prove your points or shut up. ## Maybe you need to so some research for yourself or SHUT UP! Websites about carbs abound. You don't need someone to do it for you! Next you'll be claiming the Eskimos were secretly having carbs delivered by helicopter over the centuries. LOL!!! :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Ray you are my hero, Lee > >> Can you give me some details about the studies you read that suggest > >> people don't need carbs please. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > 2002 1.8i eternal red Sorry I resent being told I lack self control in this manner, some of us have medical issues, some of us have never been educated and some of us have emotional issues connected with food. Lee, not meaning to be rude but this is just too negative for me today > > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > ========================================== > Sorry I resent being told I lack self control in this manner, ## Sorry, but I resent being accused of specifically accusing *YOU* of lack of self-control. I don't go shopping with you nor do I know what's in your fridge and kitchen cabinets. For all I know you live in salads. some of us > have medical issues, ## My dear Miss Violette, there are no medical issues that cause a need to overeat empty calorie junk-food or grease laden foods. some of us have never been educated and some of us have > emotional issues connected with food. ## I find it hard to believe that anyone living where there are computer connections to the Internet is unaware that junk-food and fast-food is fattening and unhealthy. This information is on TV all the time. Surely you have a TV. I know some people have emotional issues where food is concerned. That too is on TV all the time. It comes down to the individual themselves as to whether they REALLY want to lose the weight or continue over-eating. Do you ever watch Dr. Phil? Lee, not meaning to be rude but this > is just too negative for me today ## Why is the truth negative??? What's wrong with, and so hard to understand about portion control? Isn't that what WW is all about? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== Hey Lee ! How's the weather in the midwest ? SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Sorry I resent being told I lack self control in this manner, some of us > have medical issues, some of us have never been educated and some of us have [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > ========================================== Well, it was 60F again in Seattle today and here's what one of the humorous tv-weatherman posted on their website today: "As temperatures soared to another 60 degree January day Friday, it might make you shake your head at the irony that Jan. 21 will probably end up being a better day to have a backyard barbecue than either July 4th or Labor Day this year :)" Too bad he is right - July 4th has been in the 50's on occasion!!!! As a matter of fact, I should send that to my sister who froze her buns off one 4th of July when the high that day was 54F and she was visiting from Tucson!!! (G) >Hey Lee ! How's the weather in the midwest ? Hey I'm in the Bay area... 2 years in San Francisco.. I've seen wearing my leather jacket over a thick sweater in July.. and I'm Canadian.. from the east where all the snow is... Last 4th of July was our last "on the bay" and we didn't go cause it was just too cold.. SignatureWill~ 196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg > Well, it was 60F again in Seattle today and here's what one of the > humorous tv-weatherman posted on their website today: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > >Hey Lee ! How's the weather in the midwest ? brrr to those July temps. Lee > Well, it was 60F again in Seattle today and here's what one of the > humorous tv-weatherman posted on their website today: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > >Hey Lee ! How's the weather in the midwest ? very cold, last 2 days have been wind advisories, Lee, not believing the weather guy who alleges it will warm up today > Hey Lee ! How's the weather in the midwest ? > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > 171/ 167 / 140 lb > > > ========================================== I am sure this is one of my major issues, I do not feel the physical effects of food nearly as soon as others, Lee > I've started measuring this to get a better feel for whether I am really > hungry or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > doug > I am sure this is one of my major issues, I do not feel the physical effects > of food nearly as soon as others, Lee ============================= At the WW meetings you will learn how *MUCH* food you need, so feeling full wont be and issue. (Going by our appetite alone we would probably all be obese on the typical hi-carb/high-fat diet of today.) For example when I cook I fill my plate with all MEASURED portions, i.e. one fillet of whitefish, 1/2 cup pinto beans and 3/4s cup spinach/1tsp butter. It's so easy! Then I don't go back for seconds or leftovers. If you have leftovers flush them down your toilet or feed then to your dog. My dinner runs 8 to 10 Pts. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 167 / 140 lb ========================================== |
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