Weight Loss Forum / WeightWatchers / February 2005
What has happened to society?
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GG - 17 Feb 2005 06:59 GMT This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how I feel about this matter.
My wife and I have been in the food service business for three years now. We see lots of dining customers on a daily basis. The shopping center we're located in has a Wal-Mart and other stores that are frequented by similar customers to ours. I'd guess that we see over 2,000 dining or retail store customers every day, a cross-section of the Los Angeles population, mostly between 25 - 60 years of age.
What I find shocking is the physical condition of at least half of these people. This half ranges from flabby/overweight to morbidly obese, sometimes including teenagers and those in their 20's. Some of the heaviest even need electric carts to move around in Wal-Mart, or oversized chairs to sit in the restaurant because they can't fit into booths. Some can't even walk properly as they enter our restaurant. The other half are either older and just a bit overweight, or young/normal weight. We see almost no athletic-looking middle-aged people, meaning people who appear to be into physical training or capable of running more than a few hundred feet at a time. In some other countries they make jokes about the size of our people and our restaurant portions.
What has happened to society?
I'm 56 years of age. In my childhood and early adult life I don't remember people looking like this. "Plump" was about as big as folks got, and there weren't that many of them. Certainly, very few kids were fat. And, funny thing, gyms were not a household word as they are today. So it wasn't gym memberships that kept people at normal weight back then, it was their lifestyles, a societal issue.
And how does society deal with today's overweight folks? Well, we just accept them. We know from studies that many overweight people are in denial and take offense at the mention of their condition. For many it's a sensitive subject that mustn't be discussed. Many take offense at being told what they should weigh despite scientific evidence of the inverse relationship between weight and longevity. Also according to studies, many blame their weight on failed relationships, lack of support and other emotional issues that "aren't their fault". Anything except their own behavior. This newsgroup exists because some people believe they could lose weight if they just had someone empathize or cheer them on. As if early death wasn't sufficient motivation. The evidence, sadly, is that it's not!
How did more people keep their weight normal in the previous generation? They had no "support groups", gastric bypass operations or other crutches to divert attention from the fact that being overweight was simply due to their inability to control their own destructive behavior. There is no doubt, based on clear scientific evidence, that by eating properly and in moderation, and by getting regular physical exercise, people can live longer, healthier lives and the rest of our society can be relieved of the burden of supporting them through insurance premiums and taxes for health care. Folks took responsibility for their actions more back then than they do today. That was society back then. But not today.
What has happened to society?
Constructive replies welcome.
Stormstruck - 17 Feb 2005 07:17 GMT Greater minds than ours have wrestled with this phenomenon :o)
The basic thoughts are that we have too many "labour saving" devices eg remote controls etc and also more disposable income to buy things like cars, instead of walking. Foods are processed more now as well. Then there is the "supersize meals" for 39c extra or whatever it is. The tide is starting to turn, but the problem took a while to become apparent and it will take a while to solve.
All this adds up to a population of overweight people.
I'm sure others will add to this thread, but your post is not offensive to me, I can't speak for others though!
Personally I know why I am overweight, I used to be more active and burn off my intake. I am at the beginning of relearning how to eat and making time and opportunity to exercise and the benefits have become very obvious in a very short amount of time (to my surprise).
Motivation is a personal thing, the stick may be (in the distant future) death or chronic ill health, the carrot in most cases is an immediate threat to life or health like diabetes, acute spinal or joint problems or even something else.
> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome. GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:23 GMT Email replies to:
> Greater minds than ours have wrestled with this phenomenon :o) > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > to life or health like diabetes, acute spinal or joint problems or even > something else. Good for you! I understand that modern society throws many more difficulties in our paths than in the past that encourage obesity. Keep up that great attitude!
Anna H. - 17 Feb 2005 15:48 GMT >What has happened to society? > >Constructive replies welcome. A few things:
1. The rampant capitalism of the food industry, which has a profit motive with absolutely no social conscience.
It is more profitable to sell cheap rubbish in large quantities rather than quality with smaller margins and many "junk" foods have been found to have addictive properties which over-ride the brain's "full" signals,
In many countries outside the USA, companies would simply not be allowed to conduct themselves in this fashion.
2. The rise and rise of the automobile. It seems to me, as a European, that the USA has sacrificed itself to the god of the car, with the majority of families having more than one and cities and transport mechanisms designed on that assumption - that everyone will drive everywhere. The UK is unfortunately following that bad example.
So, you have drive-in everythings, vast car-parks round all amenities and no need to actually walk anywhere.
3. The urbanisation of culture ie. More and more of the population live in crowded cities, where all amenities are near-by and can be reached by car.
4. The loss of blue-collar industries and the manual labour they provided, to be replaced by low-skill white collar jobs, generally sedentary in nature.
5. The loss of an eating culture, replacing family meals and social restaurant eating with food-on-the-go and take-aways. When eating is a sociable experience, it has been shown that people tend to eat less. For instance, comparing France (where obesity is rare, despite a traditional diet rich in pate, butter, high fat cheeses and cream) with USA, is it clear that the average French worker would never dream of not having a proper, sit-down lunch time with his friends or family, whereas the average American worker eats a hasty sandwich at his desk.
6. To paraphrase one French journalist "There word translated 'food' in French means 'cooking ingredients', provisions; the average Frenchman doesn't talk about food, he talks about meals, about Cuisine. The French don't have a food industry, they have a restaurant industry and a provisions industry."
In Britain and USA we don't have a culture of cooking and of fine restaurants any more. We just have the Food Industry, which feeds us like so much livestock.
7. The changes in family structure. Families are smaller, have fewer children and are more fragmented with up to 40% of families in some parts of USA and UK being headed by a lone parent, and extended family such as grandparents are often not as available in the past: society is more mobile and people work longer into old age, so the grandparents are simply not around to help out.
These leaves many unsupported parents struggling to bring up fewer children, creating many emotional issues and a lack of consistency in parenting. If the time comes to be strict and you are not backed up by anyone, it is easier to give in, particularly if everyone around you is in the same situation.
In addition, in lone parent families the parent often has to work and even in two parent families it is common for both parents to have to work, leaving less time for shopping, preparation and cooking of food.
8. The greater choice and accessibility of food, coupled with rising incomes. Our evolutionary design is based on a situation where food is scarce, especially high fat, high salt, high sugar food. So we are programmed to seek out such food and gorge on it when we can and store the excess as fat - by trying to control this urge, we are actually fighting a very deep, primal, survival instinct.
It has been shown that given more choice, people eat more than if they are given limited choice. If all you had to eat was rice and vegetables, you'd be highly unlikely to over-eat on it; but look at the average supermarket shelf if you want to see what we are confronted with today. That very choice, which is provided as a result of commercial pressures, and nothing to do with what humans actually *need*, is one major reason many of us get fat.
9. The total lack of responsible nutrition education in schools, coupled by a failure to teach by example via the school meals service.
10. The lack of physical education in schools. One interesting fact is that there is a direct correlation between the increasing weights of UK girl students and the replacement of dance-based activities with sports like net-ball and hockey over the last half century.
-- I've mentioned a few factors in this immensely complicated issue. None of these factors require us to be judgemental or unkind to people who are obese - it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases. But the culture of blame fits very nicely into the culture of profits-before-people and allows those of us with the power to change things, off the hook.
If you own a restaurant, you are part of the problem. Maybe you should consider whether you could promote healthy eating instead of blaming your customers for eating what you serve? Have you ever considered going Novelle Cuisine? ;)
 Signature Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 163 lbs
"The revolutionary new diet pill that turns body fat into Rolex watches" - Dilbert Online
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:33 GMT > >What has happened to society? > > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > your customers for eating what you serve? Have you ever considered going > Novelle Cuisine? ;) "it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I truly believe, the real problem. Many overweight people are in denial. The majority of overweight people are overweight because they CHOOSE to eat more calories than they expend. It's that simple. All of the facts you cited are true. They contribute to the problem of obesity by making it more difficult to control weight gain than it was in the past. The choice to become overweight, however, is the individual person's. AKA lack of will power.
Anna H. - 19 Feb 2005 20:22 GMT >"it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I >truly believe, the real problem. Many overweight people are in denial. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >of >will power. Actually, since I'm not overweight, how on earth can my post be construed as me being "in denial"?
And if it's willpower, please define willpower and explain how a person comes by it? Because if your rantings are true, why have I got it and other people don't? And what about the person who was very heavy but is now slim? Have they suddenly gained willpower?
Almost everyone on this group has lost weight and has made major life changes to ensure they lose more. It's not just about willpower, it's about learning how to eat healthily, how to incorporate more activity into your daily life, how to regulate portion sizes, how to control cravings, how to replace emotional eating with more healthy coping mechanisms etc.
So don't have a go at the people who are making positive steps to avoid obesity - you have a very inappropriate target. And don't have a go at people who's issues you don't even begin to understand.
The only reason I'm responding to you, btw, is that people who don't realise you're a troll might read your stuff and be very upset. Presumably you get some sort of kick out of it because you're not doing any constructive to help or support them. They might be obese, but at least they're doing something about *their* problem!
 Signature Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 163 lbs
"The revolutionary new diet pill that turns body fat into Rolex watches" - Dilbert Online
Willow - 20 Feb 2005 01:21 GMT The more things change.. the more they are the same..
 Signature Will~
196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg
Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg
> >"it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I > >truly believe, the real problem. Many overweight people are in denial. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > any constructive to help or support them. They might be obese, but at > least they're doing something about *their* problem! Amberle3 - 17 Feb 2005 16:12 GMT Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago, named George, who owned a buffet restaurant. Started out with wondering how people got to be overweight and then rapidly degraded into name calling....
Hmm....
Now after a bit of checking I found this:
Original posting was on 30 Jun 2004 titled "Why does this newsgroup exist", From: "George" look@signature_to.reply, at the time he was with Earthlink. This posting is From: "GG" <look@signature_to_reply.com> and he seems to have moved over to Prodigy.
I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll".
 Signature Amberle3 249/225/210-minigoal/150? Renewed my commitment to me 3/30/03
- Generic Exercise Challenge: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/ge.htm November 29-February 27 - It's Never Too Late Weight Loss Challenge: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/intl.htm December 6-February 27 - Weight Loss Challenge Summary: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/summary.htm
> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome. Lesanne - 17 Feb 2005 20:24 GMT Go Am, I figured it was him also, but didn't care enough to look. Must be a slow month at the food court.
 Signature Lesanne
> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago, > named George, who owned a buffet restaurant. Started out with wondering [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >> >> Constructive replies welcome. Laura - 17 Feb 2005 22:40 GMT Good catch Amberle. I thought his speel sounded familar.
> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago, > named George, who owned a buffet restaurant. Started out with wondering how [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > > > > Constructive replies welcome. GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:38 GMT Email replies to:
> Good catch Amberle. I thought his speel sounded familar. "speel" ???
Old Gringo - 18 Feb 2005 04:37 GMT > Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago, > named George, who owned a buffet restaurant. Started out with wondering how [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring > things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll". My hat is off to you, very well done.
 Signature Old Gringo George Magic Weaver Of Life Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:39 GMT My hat is off to you, very well done.
Whew!! HUGE accomplishment!
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:36 GMT Email replies to:
> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago, > named George, who owned a buffet restaurant. Started out with wondering how [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring > things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll". Your reply is totally useless. Is this how you spend your time - sitting in front of your PC waiting to pounce on anyone who dares to tell the truth about individual responsibility for weight gain? There are better ways to burn calories.
Lesanne - 17 Feb 2005 20:23 GMT This is so similar to a post that showed up here maybe a year ago. Incredibly similar. And you would be posting to a weightwatchers newsgroup for what reason? Are you in weightwatchers? As a 50 something woman who used to be morbidly obese and has been "normal" for 19 months and counting, and is fit and active, I ought to agree with your post, but don't. Go express how you feel somewhere else, we heard you last time. Maybe your restaurant is drawing those people with the food you serve.
 Signature Lesanne
> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome. Willow - 18 Feb 2005 04:16 GMT Interesting post, wrong place to post it though..
 Signature Will~
196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs 89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg
Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg
> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome. GG - 18 Feb 2005 08:04 GMT Reading all the replies above, I see two common themes. Either: 1) I'm a bad person, or 2) obesity is the fault of society, food suppliers, cars or evil businessmen. Not even a hint of personal responsibility? Or am I mis-reading the replies?
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> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome. Laura - 18 Feb 2005 15:41 GMT > Reading all the replies above, I see two common themes. Either: 1) I'm a > bad person, or 2) obesity is the fault of society, food suppliers, cars or > evil businessmen. Not even a hint of personal responsibility? Or am I > mis-reading the replies? Since you asked....
You are not a bad person just a troll. Good bye.
HoneyDew - 19 Feb 2005 22:29 GMT > "And how does society deal with today's overweight folks? Well, we just > accept them." What do you mean accept them??? They're people!! What do you want us to do?? Kill them because their overweight?? You also stated all you ever saw growing up was "plump" people go back a little further when overweight was a sign of the wealthy. I have an idea maybe we should take all the people like you, you know the old people that put their nose into other peoples affairs and complain about everything under the sun even when it's of no concern to them and hell i don't know maybe kill em. Why are you posting on the Weight Watcher's newsgroup anyway? You obviously don't belong here. THANK GOODNESS!
> This is not meant to be offensive. I understand the sensitivity of the > subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Constructive replies welcome.
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