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What has happened to society?

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GG - 17 Feb 2005 06:59 GMT
This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how
I feel about this matter.

My wife and I have been in the food service business for three years now.
We see lots of dining customers on a daily basis.  The shopping center we're
located in has a Wal-Mart and other stores that are frequented by similar
customers to ours.  I'd guess that we see over 2,000 dining or retail store
customers every day, a cross-section of the Los Angeles population, mostly
between 25 - 60 years of age.

What I find shocking is the physical condition of at least half of these
people.  This half ranges from flabby/overweight to morbidly obese,
sometimes including teenagers and those in their 20's.  Some of the heaviest
even need electric carts to move around in Wal-Mart, or oversized chairs to
sit in the restaurant because they can't fit into booths.   Some can't even
walk properly as they enter our restaurant.  The other half are either older
and just a bit overweight, or young/normal weight.  We see almost no
athletic-looking middle-aged people, meaning people who appear to be into
physical training or capable of running more than a few hundred feet at a
time.  In some other countries they make jokes about the size of our people
and our restaurant portions.

What has happened to society?

I'm 56 years of age.  In my childhood and early adult life I don't remember
people looking like this.  "Plump" was about as big as folks got, and there
weren't that many of them.  Certainly, very few kids were fat.  And, funny
thing, gyms were not a household word as they are today.  So it wasn't gym
memberships that kept people at normal weight back then, it was their
lifestyles, a societal issue.

And how does society deal with today's overweight folks?  Well, we just
accept them.  We know from studies that many overweight people are in denial
and take offense at the mention of their condition.  For many it's a
sensitive subject that mustn't be discussed.  Many take offense at being
told what they should weigh despite scientific evidence of the inverse
relationship between weight and longevity.  Also according to studies, many
blame their weight on failed relationships, lack of support and other
emotional issues that "aren't their fault".  Anything except their own
behavior.  This newsgroup exists because some people believe they could lose
weight if they just had someone empathize or cheer them on.  As if early
death wasn't sufficient motivation.  The evidence, sadly, is that it's not!

How did more people keep their weight normal in the previous generation?
They had no "support groups", gastric bypass operations or other crutches to
divert attention from the fact that being overweight was simply due to their
inability to control their own destructive behavior.  There is no doubt,
based on clear scientific evidence, that by eating properly and in
moderation, and by getting regular physical exercise, people can live
longer, healthier lives and the rest of our society can be relieved of the
burden of supporting them through insurance premiums and taxes for health
care.  Folks took responsibility for their actions more back then than they
do today.  That was society back then.  But not today.

What has happened to society?

Constructive replies welcome.
Stormstruck - 17 Feb 2005 07:17 GMT
Greater minds than ours have wrestled with this phenomenon :o)

The basic thoughts are that we have too many "labour saving" devices eg
remote controls etc and also more disposable income to buy things like cars,
instead of walking.  Foods are processed more now as well.  Then there is
the "supersize meals" for 39c extra or whatever it is.  The tide is starting
to turn, but the problem took a while to become apparent and it will take a
while to solve.

All this adds up to a population of overweight people.

I'm sure others will add to this thread, but your post is not offensive to
me, I can't speak for others though!

Personally I know why I am overweight, I used to be more active and burn off
my intake.  I am at the beginning of relearning how to eat and making time
and opportunity to exercise and the benefits have become very obvious in a
very short amount of time (to my surprise).

Motivation is a personal thing, the stick may be (in the distant future)
death or chronic ill health, the carrot in most cases is an immediate threat
to life or health like diabetes, acute spinal or joint problems or even
something else.

> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:23 GMT
Email replies to:
> Greater minds than ours have wrestled with this phenomenon :o)
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> to life or health like diabetes, acute spinal or joint problems or even
> something else.

Good for you!  I understand that modern society throws many more
difficulties
in our paths than in the past that encourage obesity.  Keep up that great
attitude!
Anna H. - 17 Feb 2005 15:48 GMT
>What has happened to society?
>
>Constructive replies welcome.

A few things:

1. The rampant capitalism of the food industry, which has a profit
motive with absolutely no social conscience.

It is more profitable to sell cheap rubbish in large quantities rather
than quality with smaller margins and many "junk" foods have been found
to have addictive properties which over-ride the brain's "full" signals,

In many countries outside the USA, companies would simply not be allowed
to conduct themselves in this fashion.

2. The rise and rise of the automobile. It seems to me, as a European,
that the USA has sacrificed itself to the god of the car, with the
majority of families having more than one and cities and transport
mechanisms designed on that assumption - that everyone will drive
everywhere. The UK is unfortunately following that bad example.

So, you have drive-in everythings, vast car-parks round all amenities
and no need to actually walk anywhere.

3. The urbanisation of culture ie. More and more of the population live
in crowded cities, where all amenities are near-by and can be reached by
car.

4. The loss of blue-collar industries and the manual labour they
provided, to be replaced by low-skill white collar jobs, generally
sedentary in nature.

5. The loss of an eating culture, replacing family meals and social
restaurant eating with food-on-the-go and take-aways. When eating is a
sociable experience, it has been shown that people tend to eat less. For
instance, comparing France (where obesity is rare, despite a traditional
diet rich in pate, butter, high fat cheeses and cream) with USA, is it
clear that the average French worker would never dream of not having a
proper, sit-down lunch time with his friends or family, whereas the
average American worker eats a hasty sandwich at his desk.

6. To paraphrase one French journalist "There word translated 'food' in
French means 'cooking ingredients', provisions; the average Frenchman
doesn't talk about food, he talks about meals, about Cuisine. The French
don't have a food industry, they have a restaurant industry and a
provisions industry."

In Britain and USA we don't have a culture of cooking and of fine
restaurants any more. We just have the Food Industry, which feeds us
like so much livestock.

7. The changes in family structure. Families are smaller, have fewer
children and are more fragmented with up to 40% of families in some
parts of USA and UK being headed by a lone parent, and extended family
such as grandparents are often not as available in the past: society is
more mobile and people work longer into old age, so the grandparents are
simply not around to help out.

These leaves many unsupported parents struggling to bring up fewer
children, creating many emotional issues and a lack of consistency in
parenting. If the time comes to be strict and you are not backed up by
anyone, it is easier to give in, particularly if everyone around you is
in the same situation.

In addition, in lone parent families the parent often has to work and
even in two parent families it is common for both parents to have to
work, leaving less time for shopping, preparation and cooking of food.

8. The greater choice and accessibility of food, coupled with rising
incomes. Our evolutionary design is based on a situation where food is
scarce, especially high fat, high salt, high sugar food. So we are
programmed to seek out such food and gorge on it when we can and store
the excess as fat - by trying to control this urge, we are actually
fighting a very deep, primal, survival instinct.

It has been shown that given more choice, people eat more than if they
are given limited choice. If all you had to eat was rice and vegetables,
you'd be highly unlikely to over-eat on it; but look at the average
supermarket shelf if you want to see what we are confronted with today.
That very choice, which is provided as a result of commercial pressures,
and nothing to do with what humans actually *need*, is one major reason
many of us get fat.

9. The total lack of responsible nutrition education in schools, coupled
by a failure to teach by example via the school meals service.

10. The lack of physical education in schools. One interesting fact is
that there is a direct correlation between the increasing weights of UK
girl students and the replacement of dance-based activities with sports
like net-ball and hockey over the last half century.

--
I've mentioned a few factors in this immensely complicated issue. None
of these factors require us to be judgemental or unkind to people who
are obese - it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases. But
the culture of blame fits very nicely into the culture of
profits-before-people and allows those of us with the power to change
things, off the hook.

If you own a restaurant, you are part of the problem. Maybe you should
consider whether you could promote healthy eating instead of blaming
your customers for eating what you serve? Have you ever considered going
Novelle Cuisine? ;)
Signature

Anna (in UK)
Start Weight: 174 lbs
Goal Weight: 146 lbs
Current Weight: 163 lbs

"The revolutionary new diet pill that turns body fat into Rolex watches" -
Dilbert Online

GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:33 GMT
> >What has happened to society?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 100 lines]
> your customers for eating what you serve? Have you ever considered going
> Novelle Cuisine? ;)

"it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I
truly believe, the real
problem.  Many overweight people are in denial.  The majority of overweight
people
are overweight because they CHOOSE to eat more calories than they expend.
It's
that simple.  All of the facts you cited are true.  They contribute to the
problem of
obesity by making it more difficult to control weight gain than it was in
the past.  The
choice to become overweight, however, is the individual person's.  AKA lack
of
will power.
Anna H. - 19 Feb 2005 20:22 GMT
>"it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I
>truly believe, the real problem.  Many overweight people are in denial.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>of
>will power.

Actually, since I'm not overweight, how on earth can my post be
construed as me being "in denial"?

And if it's willpower, please define willpower and explain how a person
comes by it? Because if your rantings are true, why have I got it and
other people don't? And what about the person who was very heavy but is
now slim? Have they suddenly gained willpower?

Almost everyone on this group has lost weight and has made major life
changes to ensure they lose more. It's not just about willpower, it's
about learning how to eat healthily, how to incorporate more activity
into your daily life, how to regulate portion sizes, how to control
cravings, how to replace emotional eating with more healthy coping
mechanisms etc.

So don't have a go at the people who are making positive steps to avoid
obesity - you have a very inappropriate target. And don't have a go at
people who's issues you don't even begin to understand.

The only reason I'm responding to you, btw, is that people who don't
realise you're a troll might read your stuff and be very upset.
Presumably you get some sort of kick out of it because you're not doing
any constructive to help or support them. They might be obese, but at
least they're doing something about *their* problem!
Signature

Anna (in UK)
Start Weight: 174 lbs
Goal Weight: 146 lbs
Current Weight: 163 lbs

"The revolutionary new diet pill that turns body fat into Rolex watches" -
Dilbert Online

Willow - 20 Feb 2005 01:21 GMT
The more things change.. the more they are the same..

Signature

Will~

196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs
89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg

Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg

> >"it really isn't their fault in the majority of cases" as you say is, I
> >truly believe, the real problem.  Many overweight people are in denial.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> any constructive to help or support them. They might be obese, but at
> least they're doing something about *their* problem!
Amberle3 - 17 Feb 2005 16:12 GMT
Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago,
named George, who owned a buffet restaurant.  Started out with wondering how
people got to be overweight and then rapidly degraded into name calling....

Hmm....

Now after a bit of checking I found this:

Original posting was on 30 Jun 2004 titled "Why does this newsgroup exist",
From: "George" look@signature_to.reply, at the time he was with Earthlink.
This posting is From: "GG" <look@signature_to_reply.com> and he seems to
have moved over to Prodigy.

I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring
things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll".

Signature

Amberle3
249/225/210-minigoal/150?
Renewed my commitment to me 3/30/03

- Generic Exercise Challenge: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/ge.htm
   November 29-February 27
- It's Never Too Late Weight Loss Challenge:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/intl.htm
   December 6-February 27
- Weight Loss Challenge Summary:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/travelgirl/summary.htm

> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
Lesanne - 17 Feb 2005 20:24 GMT
Go Am, I figured it was him also, but didn't care enough to look. Must be a
slow month at the food court.

Signature

Lesanne

> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago,
> named George, who owned a buffet restaurant.  Started out with wondering
[quoted text clipped - 93 lines]
>>
>> Constructive replies welcome.
Laura - 17 Feb 2005 22:40 GMT
Good catch Amberle. I thought his speel sounded familar.

> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago,
> named George, who owned a buffet restaurant.  Started out with wondering how
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> >
> > Constructive replies welcome.
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:38 GMT
Email replies to:
> Good catch Amberle. I thought his speel sounded familar.

"speel" ???
Old Gringo - 18 Feb 2005 04:37 GMT
> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago,
> named George, who owned a buffet restaurant.  Started out with wondering how
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring
> things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll".

My hat is off to you, very well done.

Signature

Old Gringo George
Magic Weaver Of Life
Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-industries.com/>

GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:39 GMT
My hat is off to you, very well done.

Whew!! HUGE accomplishment!
GG - 19 Feb 2005 07:36 GMT
Email replies to:
> Gosh, this sounds awfully like the guy that came around a few months ago,
> named George, who owned a buffet restaurant.  Started out with wondering how
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I therefore conclude that GG=George, and since he's also tried stirring
> things up last year with this I hereby label him as "Troll".

Your reply is totally useless.  Is this how you spend your time - sitting in
front
of your PC waiting to pounce on anyone who dares to tell the truth about
individual responsibility for weight gain?  There are better ways to burn
calories.
Lesanne - 17 Feb 2005 20:23 GMT
This is so similar to a post that showed up here maybe a year ago.
Incredibly similar. And you would be posting to a weightwatchers newsgroup
for what reason? Are you in weightwatchers? As a 50 something woman who used
to be morbidly obese and has been "normal" for 19 months and counting, and
is fit and active, I ought to agree with your post, but don't. Go express
how you feel somewhere else, we heard you last time. Maybe your restaurant
is drawing those people with the food you serve.

Signature

Lesanne

> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
Willow - 18 Feb 2005 04:16 GMT
Interesting post, wrong place to post it though..

Signature

Will~

196.2 / 131.8 / 137 lbs
89 / 59.8 / 62.1 Kg

Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg

> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
GG - 18 Feb 2005 08:04 GMT
Reading all the replies above, I see two common themes.  Either: 1) I'm a
bad person, or 2) obesity is the fault of society, food suppliers, cars or
evil businessmen.  Not even a hint of personal responsibility?  Or am I
mis-reading the replies?

Email replies to:
> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
Laura - 18 Feb 2005 15:41 GMT
> Reading all the replies above, I see two common themes.  Either: 1) I'm a
> bad person, or 2) obesity is the fault of society, food suppliers, cars or
> evil businessmen.  Not even a hint of personal responsibility?  Or am I
> mis-reading the replies?

Since you asked....

You are not a bad person just a troll. Good bye.
HoneyDew - 19 Feb 2005 22:29 GMT
> "And how does society deal with today's overweight folks?  Well, we just
> accept them."

What do you mean accept them???  They're people!!  What do you want us to
do?? Kill them because their overweight??
You also stated all you ever saw growing up was "plump" people go back a
little further when overweight was a sign of the wealthy. I have an idea
maybe we should take all the people like you, you know the old people that
put their nose into other peoples affairs and complain about everything
under the sun even when it's of no concern to them and hell i don't know
maybe kill em. Why are you posting on the Weight Watcher's newsgroup anyway?
You obviously don't belong here. THANK GOODNESS!

> This is not meant to be offensive.  I understand the sensitivity of the
> subject and regret if anyone here feels offended, but I want to express how
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Constructive replies welcome.
 
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