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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / February 2007Conflicting Accounts
Okay, a few true or falses: 1) Is excess protein stored as fat, or excreted as feces? 2) Does eating close to sleep "promote fat," or does it help stave off catabolic processes? 3) Is the USRDA of protein simply the minimum to avoid deficiency and malnutrition, or is it the healthy standard of the overwhelming majority of people, regardless of athletic activity? I ask because I read pro and con on every one of those issues from what appear to be respectable sources. Too bad that the government doesn't see the need to fund research into healthy lifestyles -- it's too concerned with the very fat, the very sick, and the very weak. The little study concerning athletes and the otherwise healthy seems limited to funding from the health industry. > Okay, a few true or falses: > > 1) Is excess protein stored as fat, or excreted as feces? Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess protein is not the bodies preferred energy source. > 2) Does eating close to sleep "promote fat," or does it help stave off > catabolic processes? Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to do with body composition. > 3) Is the USRDA of protein simply the minimum to avoid deficiency and > malnutrition, or is it the healthy standard of the overwhelming > majority of people, regardless of athletic activity? Neither. > I ask because I read pro and con on every one of those issues from > what appear to be respectable sources. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sick, and the very weak. The little study concerning athletes and the > otherwise healthy seems limited to funding from the health industry. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html  SignatureKeith > Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess > protein is not the bodies preferred energy source. Okay. I have this Time-Life Book (from the mid-'80s, though) which says excess protein is excreted. I've also read that in a few other places. > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to > do with body composition. Thing is, supposedly the lower metabolism of sleep somehow makes carbs floating in the blood more susceptible to capture as fat. So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light? > Neither. Huh?? So what does it have to do with??? > http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html HEY!! Great link; thanks!!! > -- > Keith > > Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess > > protein is not the bodies preferred energy source. > > Okay. I have this Time-Life Book (from the mid-'80s, though) which > says excess protein is excreted. I've also read that in a few other > places. Excess protein is burned to create glucose. The waste urea is excreted. So both views are true and not in conflict. >> Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to >> do with body composition. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an > hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light? not from scientific study, just from personal experience..... I lose more weight by not eating in the evenings - all other things being equal. For instance, if I stick to a 1200 caloried diet, and 1hr cardio 4 times a week plus 3 full body weight workouts, I lose weight better if I consume my 1200 calories before 6pm than if I start eating later in the day and finish consuming later at night. Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm. >>> Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to >>> do with body composition. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk > of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm. Here's the science: calories eaten - calories used = surplus stored energy (assuming the subtrahend is greater than the minuend). No exceptions. --Sir Jackery Sir Jackery <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote in part: >Here's the science: calories eaten - calories used = surplus stored >energy (assuming the subtrahend is greater than the minuend). No >exceptions. Bleeding, parasites, diarrhea, vomiting, diabetes (peeing glucose), amputation,... I could go on and on with exceptions. Don't you think bulimics have figured out how to cheat? -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu > Sir Jackery <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu I knew I was going to stir sh.t up with that one (-: > not from scientific study, just from personal experience..... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk > of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm. Interesting...my mother also thought that eating too close to sleeping promotes obesity -- but then again, she mistook my 17" biceps for fat! No joke, my sister had to explain to her that it was all muscle (she's from "the Old Country"). But in general, I haven't noticed putting on weight more easily after eating close to bedtime...though on the few occasions that I did notice, it may have more to do with a particularly gluttonous feast more than simple timing! And so I ask.... BTW, doesn't the body just shut down during sleep?? Digestion seems like a pretty big task (based on the old notion of not exercising right after a meal because your blood will be too busy with the digestive process to also carry oxygen around) for the body to be doing while it's totally resting, no? I do remember sometimes waking up in the middle of the night with my stomach (after one of them aforementioned feasts) all "busy"...nothing bad or painful, but I could definitely feel it, like, doing its thing, and being a bit annoyed thinking I was woken up by it! >> not from scientific study, just from personal experience..... >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > could definitely feel it, like, doing its thing, and being a bit > annoyed thinking I was woken up by it! Because "resting" is an active process. The body is repairing itself, and this is most easily done when you are not otherwise exerting yourself. Likewise for digestion. SignatureJim Janney > Because "resting" is an active process. The body is repairing itself, > and this is most easily done when you are not otherwise exerting > yourself. Likewise for digestion. > > -- > Jim Janney Aha -- so it does matter when we eat! Since digestion is "most easily done when...not otherwise exerting".... So I'm back to Square One. I think Hobbes here had said that it doesn't matter when we eat, but Muscle101.com claims that if one's to eat sugary foods, it's best done in the morning hours as a part of breakfast! I certainly find sugary or starchy foods most satisfying early on a drowsy morning myself.... I work out so hard, my concern now is that I may be just spinning my wheels...I know I don't get enough rest -- I think I only have a full eight hours of sleep once a month, if even that; it's usually five or six hours, tops, for various reasons...but little by little, now that I'm not so young anymore -- and so can't just do whatever I want however I want whenever I want -- I'm looking into details about diet and so forth in order to compensate...but there's just so much conflicting advice, all of which sound like common sense, stuff I can personally relate to! >>not from scientific study, just from personal experience..... >> >>I lose more weight by not eating in the evenings - all other things being >>equal. Makes sense if you are getting adequate nutition and energy from your breakfasst and lunch ime meals. All the body can then do with yourevening meal is to lay it down as fat. >>> not from scientific study, just from personal experience..... >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > breakfasst and lunch ime meals. All the body can then do with > yourevening meal is to lay it down as fat. if yuor mother is anything like mine, don't rely on her food advice when we went to Chef Tell, she asked asked Cheff about black radishes that he used in his dishes, and then thinking he lied because they are available only in fall, when she remembers having them in april talk about conflicting advice and taht she should go back weekly to stake out his restuarant to see whether she should plant black radishes or kale -- " 2) Intentional deception. The anti-gunners thrive on this and the number of instances are too numerous to even begin to list. However, I will give one example. The "assault-weapons ban" in the U.S. was a successful attempt (well, partially successful) to ban 19 different types of semi-automatic weapons."--kevin brandon > > Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess > > protein is not the bodies preferred energy source. > > Okay. I have this Time-Life Book (from the mid-'80s, though) which > says excess protein is excreted. I've also read that in a few other > places. I suppose some there is more possibility of excess protein being excreted as opposed to carbs or fat, but for practical purposes - nope. > > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to > > do with body composition. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an > hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light? Not really. It's pretty simple - calories in versus calories expended. If not eating in the evening helps control calories in - then mebbe. > > Neither. > > Huh?? So what does it have to do with??? I don't consider the gov't recommendations very good, which I why I linked to the Harvard site. Even so, it would depend on the person. goals, training, etc. > > http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html > > HEY!! Great link; thanks!!! Zalright. SignatureKeith >> Okay, a few true or falses: >> >> 1) Is excess protein stored as fat, or excreted as feces? > >Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess >protein is not the bodies preferred energy source. Protein is not stored well. Even the protein in muscle in constantly turning over. Excess protein is deaminated and converted to glucose or ketone bodies for energy. If the glucose is not used for energy, it's converted and stored as fat. > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to > do with body composition. Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around the time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean storing more bodyfat even if you are arent an athlete: "One study, for instance, showed that female gymnasts and runners who didn't eat or snack for three hours or longer had the highest body fat percentages--even if they weren't consuming more calories than they were burning. Furthermore, the longer the gap between eating times, the higher the body fat, especially if they exercised during those noneating periods. Keep in mind that these were competitive athletes training hours every day--they weren't overweight. But when compared to fellow runners and gymnasts, those who ate fewer and bigger meals retained higher levels of body fat. Perhaps even more surprising, the same study showed that those who ate less than their energy needs-- traditionally the recipe for weight loss-weren't losing weight. The runners, for example, ate an average of 200 to 400 fewer daily calories than they were burning, and some of these athletes reached points during the day when, because they were performing intense exercise without having eaten recently, they dipped into a caloric deficit of up to 1,100 calories for a few hours. But these exercisers were not losing weight, as you'd expect; in fact, they were among the "fattest" of the bunch. The reason, suspects Benardot, is that when deprived of food, even for just a few hours, the body desperately clings to any calorie it gets." http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KGB/is_6_5/ai_n6110816 "Others have found that some athletes with higher average within-day energy deficits (as measured by frequency and magnitude of deficit) have significantly higher body fat percentages. In a recent study by Deutz et al., the greater the energy deficit in gymnasts the higher the percentage of body fat. The authors theorized that the within-day energy restriction caused an adaptive reduction in resting energy expenditure and an increase in fat storage." http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/nutrition/tips-from-the-fuel-coach-000559-print.php joanne > > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to > > do with body composition. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > joanne AMAZING!!!! I burn almost 1,000 calories each Sunday doing my four or five-hour workouts (actually, that's a conservative estimate: if elliptical and treadmill read-outs are to be taken at face value, I burn a bit over 1,500 on aerobics alone!!)...I try to keep my daily caloric intake under 2,000 calories on top of all that (I also exercise Wednesdays and Fridays for two to three hours each, though with only half the aerobics involved)...I was wondering why I only manage losing a mere pound a week on average! Ah, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is fat.... > Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around > the time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean > storing more bodyfat even if you are arent an athlete: Have you ever thought - WHY an Olympic athlete would be skipping his meals? I eat only in the evening, sometimes skip a day, have 7% bf or less, and I'm also fitter than most people. My review of literature leads me to believe that this diet (as opposed to lots of small meals) has health benefits that are very similar to CR. However, that kind of diet ("intermittent fasting") would clearly be a bad choice if my life was structured around athletic competitions. Therefore, most likely, your "skippers" are a mixture of two categories: (1) Athletes who recognize themselves as being somewhat fatter than their peers; these individuals skip meals because of that fact, not the other way around. (2) Athletes who are paying less attention to their diet in general. These tend to make worse choices in the kind and the amounts of food they eat, compared to a determined athlete who is painstakingly counting everything that goes into the mouth, the timing etc. > > Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around > > the time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > painstakingly counting everything that goes into the mouth, the timing > etc. Good points both. The research has very little application to the average person anyhow. SignatureKeith >> Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around >> the time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >painstakingly counting everything that goes into the mouth, the timing >etc. I don't know if I would consider those gymnast healthy even if they are fit. They don't consider themselves training hard enough if they are still getting their period. > >> Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around > >> the time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > are fit. They don't consider themselves training hard enough if they > are still getting their period. Are 'gymnast' and 'male' mutually exclusive sets? SignatureKeith > > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to > > do with body composition. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/nutrition/tips-from-the-fuel-coach-000559-pri > nt.php Possibly people with huge caloric requirements (such as olympic athletes) should eat more often. But for the average person calories in - calories out should be the rule. Face it - have you ever seen a _fat_ olympic gymnast? Even the meal skippers? SignatureKeith |
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