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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / February 2007Do you count calories/fat in supplements?
I am on a very structured, but healthy, weight loss journey, which includes taking a number of vitamins and supplements. My only complaint is that my daily 6 Flax Seed Oil capsules, 3 Fish Oil, and 4 CLA add up to 15 grams of fat, which is HALF of my daily allowance. (it also uses up 150 calories of my allowance, but that's not usually a problem) I've been including my supplements in my intake diary for four months, but it's hard to stay within my fat allowance, especially on days when I have to eat out. Is it standard to track calories/fats in supplements? Would appreciate feedback, especially from any nutritionists/trainers. Thanks for your input. (By the way, I am commited to this either way - lost 32 pounds so far.) > I am on a very structured, but healthy, weight loss journey, which > includes taking a number of vitamins and supplements. My only [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > (By the way, I am commited to this either way - lost 32 pounds so > far.) I'm not a nutrtionist or trainer but I can answer your question. The reason you take the supplements is to make sure you get good fats into your diet, right? And if you were getting those good fats from foods you ate you'd count them, right? So, yes the fat grams and calories need to be counted. > My only complaint is that my daily 6 Flax Seed Oil capsules, 3 Fish Oil, and 4 > CLA add up to 15 grams of fat, which is HALF of my daily allowance. Most people I know that supplement with dietary oils do not count them in their daily calorie or fat totals - mind you, I supppose it depends on how much they add up to ;-) The reason being that these are good healthy fats that the body readily uses instead of storing them - so they are processed differently than other fats. The idea is to limit your other fats to be 20% or under. So say on a 1500 calorie a day intake your 'other fats' intake would be about 33 grams total for the day. Reference reading: http://www.udoerasmus.com/FAQ.htm joanne >> My only complaint is that my daily 6 Flax Seed Oil capsules, 3 Fish Oil, >> and 4 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > joanne Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to be stored as fat, all things being equal? > >> My only complaint is that my daily 6 Flax Seed Oil capsules, 3 Fish Oil, > >> and 4 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to be > stored as fat, all things being equal?- Hide quoted text - Yes because the body uses EFA's differently than regular fats. A few links below I could find explained it rather well but research this and you'll see it explained over and over in similar ways. Read farther down in section by the graph: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/omega-3-omega-6.html And more explanations here fartehr down in the do you count them section, which like yes but not really answer and it explains why: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/the-role-of-essential-fats-in-bodybuil ding.html joanne > > Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to be > > stored as fat, all things being equal?- Hide quoted text - > > Yes because the body uses EFA's differently than regular fats. And, also, it requires only tiny quantities of them. You wouldn't / want/ to get a lot of calories from EFA's and other mono and polyunsaturated fats, because they are toxic to your body in large amounts. For instance, when polyunsaturated fats are bombarded by UV light, their carbon-carbon double bonds can break, leading to free radicals. So you don't want these substances to be stored in or under your skin. That is what people are doing when they guzzle polyunsaturates, thinking they are being smart by avoiding saturated fat. Saturated fat is only fattening, but otherwise safe and non-toxic by virtue of its unreactivity. You can put it in a jar and keep it on the shelf for years, and it won't go bad, even though it wasn't chemically treated in any way. It will nicely sit in your body and not do anything. So if you don't care about being lean, and allow yourself to consume fat quite liberally, most of it should be the safe, clean saturated fat. >> > Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to >> > be [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > fat quite liberally, most of it should be the safe, clean saturated > fat. Are you a goofball troll or just a maroon? In either case, no one should pay any attention to your blathering. I certainly won't. del >>>> Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to >>>> be [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > del You're not alone in your thinking, del :) On Feb 24, 10:13 am, "Del Cecchi" <delcecchioftheno...@gmail.com> wrote: > Are you a goofball troll or just a maroon? In either case, no one should > pay any attention to your blathering. I certainly won't. <blather> That is a rather embarassing emotional response to being presented with a few non-mainstream ideas. The ``saturated-bad/unsaturated-good'' hypotheses are certainly widely accepted, but not universally so. Not everyone who doesn't accept them is a moron, either. I don't feel anywhere near strongly enough about this topic to be interested in continuing a debate, let alone one that has already devolved to ad-hominem within one round trip. Information is out there, eat whatever you like. This is a particularly nice, information-dense article: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html If anything, I deserve to be lambasted for the other over-the-top things I said about saturated fat being nutritionally void. The saturated fat in many good traditional foods carries some important nutrients, like fat-soluble vitamins. In re-reading the article, by the way, I was pleasantly suprised by something I had missed previously, namely that coconut oil (which is more than 90% saturated fat) is actually two thirds MCT's: medium chain triglycerides. That's very cool. I know from other research that MCT's behave differently from long-chained fats. They are a more available form of energy. I was thinking of looking for this in supplement form to experiment with on long runs; turns out I already have it in a jar on my shelf! </blather> > On Feb 24, 10:13 am, "Del Cecchi" <delcecchioftheno...@gmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > This is a particularly nice, information-dense article: > http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html Your website reference says it all..... If you google for "Weston Price quack" you'll get thousands of hits :) > > On Feb 24, 10:13 am, "Del Cecchi" <delcecchioftheno...@gmail.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Your website reference says it all..... If you google for "Weston Price > quack" you'll get thousands of hits :) To help you understand the folly of substituting keyword searches for critical thinking, try searching for "einstein quack". That one nets more than a quarter million hits. Weston Price has been dead almost 60 years, and had nothing to do with that article. If you want to attack a text through the credentials of its author, it behooves you to accurately determine who that author is. Can you construct a plausible argument whose conclusion is that Mary Enig is a quack? And by that I don't mean the number of hits in keyword Google search. > The ``saturated-bad/unsaturated-good'' hypotheses are certainly widely > accepted, but not universally so. Not everyone who doesn't accept them > is a moron, either. Essentially all studies used to justify it have used low fat or standard American diet. The hypothesis is false for low carbers. > If anything, I deserve to be lambasted for the other over-the-top > things I said about saturated fat being nutritionally void. The > saturated fat in many good traditional foods carries some important > nutrients, like fat-soluble vitamins. Viewing saturated fat not as a nutrient itself but as a vehicle for fat soluble micronutriets? Okay. The body can synthesize its own saturated fat so it isn't essential. There is little or no downside to replacing saturated fat with well chosen polyunsaturates and monounsaturates and the micronutrients are part of that "well chosen" bit. > In re-reading the article, by the way, I was pleasantly suprised by > something I had missed previously, namely that coconut oil (which is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > supplement form to experiment with on long runs; turns out I already > have it in a jar on my shelf! I've found coconut oil cheap at WalMart Supercenter. Let's see if I understand this: The length of the chain in independent of the polyun/monoun/saturated issue. Saturated chains tend to be solid at room temperature but length of chain might has some effect. Plant and animal fats tend to have different length chains but I don't remember which is which. Some humans lack the ability to convert chain lengths so they much get some EFAs from seafood. > Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to be > stored as fat, all things being equal? I believe that saturated fat will be stored even if you are maintaining a caloric deficiency. Even very lean individuals still have several pounds of fat in their bodies, enough to run a hundred miles or more. Eating some superfluous substance of which you already have pounds and pounds of in your body is completely counter-productive. If your body needs it for something, it can just pull it from its existing /vast/ inventory. So eating it is like shipping refridgerators to the Arctic or hair-dryers to the Sahara, all the while cheerfully reciting the mantra that that revenue is about dollars in minus dollars out. :) You might as well strike it from your caloric calculations and just figure that it went right into body fat. E.g. suppose that saturated fat makes up 400 calories in a 2000 calorie intake. Well, that's really a 1600 calorie diet, which stores 400 calories of fat into adipose tissue. I.e. it's like eating just 1600 calories, plus undergoing lipoinjection to get the remaining 400. > You might as well strike it from your caloric calculations and just > figure that it went right into body fat. E.g. suppose that saturated > fat makes up 400 calories in a 2000 calorie intake. Well, that's > really a 1600 calorie diet, which stores 400 calories of fat into > adipose tissue. I.e. it's like eating just 1600 calories, plus > undergoing lipoinjection to get the remaining 400. If your total calorie burn rate is 2000 for the same period, where did the extra 400 calories of energy come from? RCE > > You might as well strike it from your caloric calculations and just > > figure that it went right into body fat. E.g. suppose that saturated [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If your total calorie burn rate is 2000 for the same period, where did the > extra 400 calories of energy come from? It could come from fat, glycogen or catabolism of lean tissue. Okay, ``strike it from your caloric calculations'' is an inept way of putting it, as I read it back. I didn't mean to say that the 400 should just be erased, but that's the obvious interpretation of what I wrote. Doh! The burn rate of 2000 will still balance the 2000 intake, on paper. But what you care about is fat in versus fat out. If 400 calories from fat are take in, but fewer than 400 are burned from fat, then there is net fat gain within that energy balance. >> Please clarify - are you saying that healthy fats are less likely to be >> stored as fat, all things being equal? > > I believe that saturated fat will be stored even if you are > maintaining a caloric deficiency. Do you have a site for that? My understanding is saturated fat may cause levels of cholesterol to raise but I never heard it was always stored. http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Erg-Foo/Fats.html > Even very lean individuals still have several pounds of fat in their > bodies, enough to run a hundred miles or more. Eating some superfluous [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > adipose tissue. I.e. it's like eating just 1600 calories, plus > undergoing lipoinjection to get the remaining 400. |
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