Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / August 2007
Dieting that is meaningful
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Mal - 02 Aug 2007 05:42 GMT Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from a diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and slow aging. So why not go all the way, while losing that unwanted fat?
A holistic approach is to aim for raising the body pH level (“cancer cannot survive in an alkaline environment”,) lowering salt intake (the less salt the more healthy the blood pressure,) and balancing the body needs.
It is not useful to start on a ‘one size fits all diet’ – one must take in factors like age, weight, amount of convenient exercise, what tastes good and how much time we are willing to dedicate. Diet failure can result from exercise that is too punishing or lousy tasting food – we just rebel and binge.
People usually get interested in dieting when age and bulging belly lines catch up to them. Or maybe when they get the big scare of a stroke or diagnosis of diabetes. If this is you and you have to diet, schedule the time for it and do it the right way.
The following is advice on how to go about a serious diet. Take it, modify it or leave it – up to you:
Start a computer spread sheet to list the food you eat. Enter Diet targets: Food name, Calories per day, Weight, Blood pressure, Protein, Carbohydrates, Fat, Cholesterol, Sodium, pH, Fiber, Glysemic Load, Potassium, Omega fatty acid – 3 and Omega fatty acid – 6; If you are pre-diabetic, you will need a column for blood glucose readings.
You will need a blood pressure meter from a pharmacy and if you are concerned about blood sugar, a diabetic’s testing kit. Ph test strips would be good too.
For example, if you are a male over 50 of medium build, I would suggest a daily calorie target of 1200. At first you will go over it, but as you learn good eating habits by experience you will probably be well under target after a few days. Eat what you want, but chart every morsel. Real soon you will be avoiding certain foods (such as commercial diet foods,) like Count Dracula avoids the sun. You can get most of the data you need to rate the food at http://www.nutritiondata.com/. For pH data, use http://www.eidusa.com/Theory_pH_FOOD.htm.
There needs to be three more columns in the spreadsheet, for ratios. The daily total line should end with ratio data for sodium/calories, sodium/potassium and the Omega fatty acids 3 and 6 ratio. The ideal targets for sodium/calories is 1 mg sodium per calorie, for sodium/potassium is 2.5 to 4 mg of sodium to 1 mg of potassium and for the fatty acids it should be 1 g Omega - 3 to 4 g Omega - 6. But sorry, that fatty acid ratio can’t easily be obtained with diet alone – you have to supplement the Omega 3 with fish oil. That is, unless you only eat fish and olives, which maybe they do in Greek fishing villages.
While we are on target amounts, I’ll give you the daily targets for the example 1200 calorie diet mentioned above. You can modify them with research for your body type, sex, age and exercise (which I’ll get to below.)
Calories: Under 1200 Blood Pressure About: 120/80 (ask your M.D.) Protein: Over 25 g Carbs: Under 180 g Fat: Under 42 g Cholesterol; Under 150 mg Sodium: Under 1200mg pH: Daily average over 7 Fiber: Over 14.5 g Glysemic Load: Daily average under 10 Potassium: About 400 mg Glucose level: about 100 mm/hg(ask M.D.)
If you have the time, it is possible to chart your vitamin and mineral intake, so you can supplement what your food lacks. That takes a lot more columns in the old spreadsheet and a lot more of your time. Instead, check out the ‘1 a day’ compounds to see if they meet your needs. The best way is to chart them, but we don’t want to make charting into a non-enjoyable chore or we risk rebellion. Actually, when you are in the routine of entering your food and filling out the contents, it only takes a few minutes a day. For the most part you will be cutting and pasting previous entries, so it goes quickly after a few days.
It is a goal to make the food intake enjoyable, so you can’t be eating “diet” foods, most of which aren’t palatable. Fresh fruit and vegetables, chicken cooked sensibly and fish from areas not polluted with heavy metals. Wash everything to get rid of pesticides. Use AlsoSalt instead of salt for cooking – it is potassium.
With regard to exercise: If you do some yardwork or pump iron, you will see a direct result in weight loss. But to most of us exercise is a chore and we would rather see our weight go down slower with diet alone. What they say about ‘diet and exercise’ being the way to go is quite right. What you do depends on your energy level – exercise is best, but if you can’t, at least walk the dog (burn 5 calories a minute) or running in place will burn 11.5 calories a minute. If you exercise, you will always have to, to keep the weight off. If you just diet, the weight comes off slowly but at least you don’t face a lifetime ahead of exercise and the weight tends to stay off while you eat sensibly.
Naturally, I do not suggest you stay on the example diet above (or a similar one) permanently. When you reach your target weight you can go onto a 2000 calorie maintenance program and you won’t have to keep track of it any more. By then you will be educated to the foods that you should or should not eat and the supplements you need. You will easily maintain the 2000 cal eating regimen – it won’t be any problem at all – you won’t even need to think about it. Your grocery cart and hand will be guided by firm knowledge and your bod will stay healthy.
Here are some gems of wisdom:
It takes 50 to 80 glasses of pure water to counteract the damage done by one can of pop; (Or so I read somewhere – I don’t know if its true.)
Nevia (or Stevia) is the ONLY sweetener that won’t hurt you and it has a high pH level too; (does have the same after taste as the others though.)
¼ lb Buffalo meat burger has only 190 cals, 60 mg sodium, 50 mg cholesterol, 0 carbs and 11 g of fat – a whole lot better than hamburger;
Try not to cook vegetables at over 115 degrees – it preserves the good stuff;
Bread has a lot of calories and salt – try open faced (1 slice) sandwiches;
Mushrooms are low in everything and really spice up a meal or omelet;
Scrambled egg whites (no yoke) are low in everything and make a fine omelet; (Add onions or scallions too or omelets can be bland.)
A teaspoon of baking soda in water or whatever you drink raises your pH beautifully. Alka Seltzer does too;
A can of Guava nectar (6 oz) tastes great and is low in everything except it does have 143 calories. It is fine when you are trying to get your calories up to target without increasing salt; (Yep, you will be faced with that to keep your cal/sodium ratio in balance.)
A squirt of lemon juice in whatever raises your pH; (Even though it is an acid.)
Leave your drinking water in a glass jar out in the sun for a few hours. The sun purifies it and it tastes better;
Quaker Oats has zero salt (use AlsoSalt) but most other cereals are loaded with it;
T.V dinners – even diet ones - have too much salt;
CONCLUSION:
The above suggestions are aimed at a no hunger diet that won’t encourage rebellion, but I believe a weekly diet holiday a good idea. Take the family out for dinner and you won’t have to burden them with your food fads.
There are some few foods that are contra-indicated for some medications. For instance if you are taking blood thinners, the vitamin K in green leafy vegetables reduces their effectiveness. If you are on meds, its probably a good idea to fax or e-mail a couple of weeks of your diet to your doctor, so he can give you any warnings appropriate. It is also a bad idea to ever take diuretics while on a diet – they flush out what you are carefully putting in.
There is much emotion attached to diets and an opinion available from every dieter. Never buy a diet or take one on faith, figure one out for yourself so you learn what your bod needs. Do it this way and the learning stays with you. Live for the day when you can type ‘End of Diet’ on your spreadsheet and go on to undocumented maintenance eating.
I’m not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job – and you already know about it. Good luck to you.
dkw12002@yahoo.com - 02 Aug 2007 06:34 GMT > Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from > a diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and [quoted text clipped - 157 lines] > I'm not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job - and > you already know about it. Good luck to you. Hmmm. Sounds like some good advice mixed with myths.....come on. "cancer can't survive in an alkaline environment". Sunlight purifies water...I don't think so. Filtering, reverse osmosis, and boiling or distilling work though. 50-80 glasses of water to counteract a can of pop. Pop is essentially sugar water. You get that with the guava. Do you drink 50-80 glasses of water to counteract that? Also, there is a difference of opinion about whether supplements even do anything useful, so this is more myth and so is the artificial sweetner statement. Such silliness. Your food recommendations: egg whites, oats, and mushrooms are excellent food choices though and low salt intake is also a good idea for most people. dkw
sycochkn - 02 Aug 2007 12:49 GMT On Aug 1, 9:42 pm, Mal <malhamil...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from > a diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > I'm not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job - and > you already know about it. Good luck to you. Hmmm. Sounds like some good advice mixed with myths.....come on. "cancer can't survive in an alkaline environment". Sunlight purifies water...I don't think so. Filtering, reverse osmosis, and boiling or distilling work though. 50-80 glasses of water to counteract a can of pop. Pop is essentially sugar water. You get that with the guava. Do you drink 50-80 glasses of water to counteract that? Also, there is a difference of opinion about whether supplements even do anything useful, so this is more myth and so is the artificial sweetner statement. Such silliness. Your food recommendations: egg whites, oats, and mushrooms are excellent food choices though and low salt intake is also a good idea for most people. dkw
Comprehensive food nutrient information can be found here.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
You can download the database to your computer here.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/nutrientdata
Bob
sycochkn - 02 Aug 2007 15:01 GMT > On Aug 1, 9:42 pm, Mal <malhamil...@verizon.net> wrote: >> Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from [quoted text clipped - 185 lines] > > Bob http://home.earthlink.net/~sycochkn1/breakfast.pdf
This is the information on my breakfast according to the USDA nutrient database software.
One could probably write a program to do dietary analysis and print out the information in whatever format is desired, using the data base or selected portions with midifications for specific brands.
Bob
Mal - 03 Aug 2007 00:50 GMT >> Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from >> a diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and [quoted text clipped - 169 lines] > oats, and mushrooms are excellent food choices though and low salt > intake is also a good idea for most people. dkw Dkw: Thanx for the response.
It is true that there is controversy over whether it is possible to alkalize the body to the extent of starving out cancer. Most of the (many) people who say you can are Naturopaths or Phd's, or are promoting some health product. I was persuaded by Theodore Baroody (M.D.) in his writings (‘Alkalize or Die’ book) until I saw he also endorsed 'Alkaline water.' The only other M.D.'s I found were two Japanese doctors - Hayashi and Keijiroo - other than the classical work of Otto Warburg M.D. early in the 20th century. The Japanese doctors also endorse 'Alkaline water', which is probably just potassium bicarbonate. It makes one skeptical of what they say. I wouldn't classify the matter as a myth, but I agree there seems to be little science behind it.
There is sense to the contention that the stomach acidifies whatever goes in the mouth and that alkalizing takes place in the upper digestion tract - thus, what use is alkalizing additive? Warburg just proved that lack of O2 allows cancer to ferment, thus feed in an oxygen poor (acidic) environment. He didn't get into how to alkalize cells to allow cell oxygen absorption and to stimulate apoptosis of cancer cells. Dichloroacetate will cause cancer cells to switch from glycolysis to mitochondrial energy production and thus trigger apoptosis. If specific site delivery is a problem, I suppose one could just spray it on with a hypodermic but where a tumor is behind soft tissue you could try dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO) - it penetrates tissue and can deliver whatever you mix with it. Of course dichloroacetate is pretty safe stuff and shouldn't hurt the bod, so a general infusion would be the logical first step. It has been used a long time to treat mitochondrial impaired patients. Warburg suggested dichloroacetate use for cancer treatment, but no drug companies will do trials on a non-patentable drug in the public domain. But I digress - ok. I agree, it may or may not be useful to strive for a high pH level. I'm going to keep doing it anyway, it doesn't harm me and there is a barrage of anecdotal evidence that says it does help.
The quote about all that water to neutralize a can of pop, refers to the effect of Nutraweet they use in many soft drinks (not guava nectar.) The aspartame content of Nutrasweet is thought to be harmful and needs flushing - probably not as much water as quoted - that was why I said I didn't know if it was true. However, the controversy about aspartame still rages, with conflicting studies. It is interesting though that Coca-Cola is trying to get approval for Stevia thru the FDA. Do you suppose they see the writing on the wall?
A quote from Dr Bill Deagle M.D.:"Aspertame converts to methanol and formaldehyde in the stomach, known neurotoxins and cancer induction agents........" Of course he has been rebutted with back and forth arguments. Big bucks involved.
Wikipedia says of Stevia:"In 2006, the World Health Organization (WHO) performed a thorough evaluation of recent experimental studies of stevioside and steviols conducted on animals and humans, and concluded that "stevioside and rebaudioside A are not genotoxic in vitro or in vivo and that the genotoxicity of steviol and some of its oxidative derivatives in vitro is not expressed in vivo." The report also found no evidence of carcinogenic activity. Furthermore, the report noted that "stevioside has shown some evidence of pharmacological effects in patients with hypertension or with type-2 diabetes" but concluded that further study was required to determine proper dosage. Indeed, millions of Japanese people have been using stevia for over thirty years with no reported or known harmful effects. Similarly, stevia leaves have been used for centuries in South America spanning multiple generations in ethnomedical tradition as a treatment of type II diabetes."
Purifying water with sunlight has good basis in science. Here are a couple of quotes:
"Drawing inspiration from water treatment practices developed in India as long ago as 2000 B.C., researchers at the American University of Beirut in Lebanon developed, with IDRC support, a low-cost, practical means to provide safe drinking water in rural and urban areas in developing countries. The key to this method lies in the ability of direct sunlight to destroy bacteria."
"More recent research carried out at Montreal's Brace Research Institute (BRI), in collaboration with international colleagues, indicates that transparent plastic bags are the best material for solar water disinfection. Researchers report that six litres of St. Lawrence River water can be disinfected in five hours during the summer."
Researchers: Dr. T.A. Lawand, Dr. Ron Alward and Dr. Joe Ayoub Brace Research Institute, Faculty of Engineering Macdonald College of McGill University Ste. Anne de Bellevue, Quebec, CANADA H9X 3V9
Dr. Aftim Acra Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering American University of Beirut Beirut, LEBANON
While these researchers do not mention improved taste in their work, I have found it to be so. Probably killing off any bacteria would improve taste and it seems to have a dechlorinating effect by the taste, but I don't have a chemical analysis for you. Certainly the distillation of water kills bugs but it removes the oxygen and the water tastes very flat. Reverse osmosis works fine but costs more – equipment and maintenance.
Again, thank you for your remarks.
po - 03 Aug 2007 04:06 GMT Mushrooms and oats have a lot of purines. (nobody ever talks about purines). Too much purine and you can get gout, which causes joint destruction. (your kidneys are supposed to filter out the purines) Uric acid crystals form in the joint fluid and literally tear them up. Very painful. I was dismayed to find that whole grains in genral have a lot of purines and are not advised for gout sufferers. Meats are bad too, but it isn't just the rich foods that give you gout. Even spinach is a problem.
On Aug 1, 9:42 pm, Mal <malhamil...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from > a diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > I'm not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job - and > you already know about it. Good luck to you. Hmmm. Sounds like some good advice mixed with myths.....come on. "cancer can't survive in an alkaline environment". Sunlight purifies water...I don't think so. Filtering, reverse osmosis, and boiling or distilling work though. 50-80 glasses of water to counteract a can of pop. Pop is essentially sugar water. You get that with the guava. Do you drink 50-80 glasses of water to counteract that? Also, there is a difference of opinion about whether supplements even do anything useful, so this is more myth and so is the artificial sweetner statement. Such silliness. Your food recommendations: egg whites, oats, and mushrooms are excellent food choices though and low salt intake is also a good idea for most people. dkw
Mal - 03 Aug 2007 05:01 GMT Hi po:
Yep, purines should be watched – and nobody talks about them. Not so prevalent in the mushrooms and oats as they are in animal organs consumed by us as food. They say plant purines act differently and are safer for consumption. Cooking breaks down the purines in vegetables, but probably not if they are just cooked at 115 degrees. Of course hot cooking takes the vitamins & minerals out vegetables too.
I thought that crackling in my knees going down stairs was calcium build up, but I’ll bet you are right and its uric acid from spent purines.
Do you know any cure for excess uric acid buildup? Other than cutting out one heck of a lot of foods? It would seem any acid could be dissolved. Come to think of it, I believe it was uric acid that gave my father gall stones and he held his nose and drank two glasses of lemon juice a day to dissolve them. Worked, whether it was caused by uric acid or not.
How about using DSMO as a carrier for pure lemon juice thru the knee cartilage? Do you think that would work?
I'm no expert on this stuff, but I'm enjoying the thread. We are forever students.
Mal
> Mushrooms and oats have a lot of purines. (nobody ever talks about purines). > Too much purine and you can get gout, which causes joint destruction. (your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for gout sufferers. Meats are bad too, but it isn't just the rich foods that > give you gout. Even spinach is a problem. po - 03 Aug 2007 15:36 GMT Your doctor can put you on allopurinol. He'll check your blood in follow ups to let you know if you're in danger of getting gout or stones. Supposedly, with modern medications like allopurinol, you needn't worry about getting gout. It's the kind of thing you have to take for the rest of your life once you've had a gout episode. The attacks come out of nowhere. Feeling good doesn't mean a thing.
One last thing, I think it's not advised to take allopurinol in the middle of a gout attack. There are other medications for that. Allopurinol is strictly for prevention.
> Hi po: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> purines and are not advised for gout sufferers. Meats are bad too, but it >> isn't just the rich foods that give you gout. Even spinach is a problem. po - 03 Aug 2007 18:55 GMT The cracking in your knees isn't uric acid or gout. You'd feel intense pain if it was gout. There'd be redness and swelling. The purines become uric acid if your kidneys can't filter them out. That floats in your blood. When there's too much or it gets too cold, it crystallizes. It's becomes a hard, needle shaped mineral and it chews up your joints by (i think) expanding and you moving the joint. It's like sand in the motor oil.
> Hi po: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> purines and are not advised for gout sufferers. Meats are bad too, but it >> isn't just the rich foods that give you gout. Even spinach is a problem. Cubit - 02 Aug 2007 15:55 GMT At the 1200 calories per day you recommend it doesn't matter if you are eating locusts or Oreos. You will lose weight.
> Most dieters are concerned with losing weight, but more can be had from a > diet. It is possible to get quite healthy, help preclude illness and slow [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > I’m not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job – and > you already know about it. Good luck to you. sycochkn - 02 Aug 2007 15:59 GMT > At the 1200 calories per day you recommend it doesn't matter if you are > eating locusts or Oreos. You will lose weight. [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] >> I'm not going to lambaste you about smoking or booze. Notta my job - and >> you already know about it. Good luck to you. What about your blood sugar and lipids. Is it good to lose fat or muscle. Underweight and obese?
Bob
Mal - 03 Aug 2007 01:27 GMT > What about your blood sugar and lipids. Is it good to lose fat or muscle. > Underweight and obese? > > Bob Bob:
Yes, it would be good to break out the lipids (fats/triglycerides.) It really isn’t sufficient to just list total fats in a food, a ratio of good & bad would be a helpful addition to a diet spreadsheet. I do have a column for blood sugar and test for glucose once a day, but I don’t have a sugar problem. It is just interesting to see the readings fluctuate with the diet contents.
Also, I go by the pharmacy once in a while and get a cholesterol & triglyceride check. They don’t charge much and you don’t need a prescription from the M.D.
I know the triglycerides bind together the fatty acids, but I need to do some research to see how and if such data would be useful. Do you have knowledge of this?
I think any diet will lose fat before muscle. Fat is the bod’s way to store readily accessible energy.
Mal
sycochkn - 03 Aug 2007 03:53 GMT >> What about your blood sugar and lipids. Is it good to lose fat or muscle. >> Underweight and obese? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mal Excessive triglycerides can damage the pancreas, and can be a sign of poor liver function. What my doctor told me is that alcohol messes up triglycerides and HDL The way to raise HDL and lower Triglycerides is Niacin and exercise. Niacin should not be acquired through supplements it can cause kidney stones.
Bob
Mal - 03 Aug 2007 17:06 GMT >>> What about your blood sugar and lipids. Is it good to lose fat or muscle. >>> Underweight and obese? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Bob Hi Bob: Yes, I recall niacin supplement getting a bad rap. I get a lot of it with Vegemite - a British product like beef paste used as a spread. The bottle isn't labled with the info we rely on, but an Australian web page gives it a very high niacin content.
If you read Po's comments about purines on this thread we have come full circle - if its high on niacinimide its no doubt also high on purines. Po says excess purines can damage the kidneys. They are, however required in the bod as an antioxidant and for a couple of other reasons.
I'm guessing it is probably wise to stay away from anything where those amazing chemical factories (kidneys/pancreas) are concerned. They know what they are doing - we just have to protect them from massive fat build up around them and let them do their work. Reducing sugar intake and cholesterol should (I hope)reduce triglycerides and help with HDL. Mal
sycochkn - 04 Aug 2007 03:11 GMT >>>> What about your blood sugar and lipids. Is it good to lose fat or >>>> muscle. Underweight and obese? [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > cholesterol should (I hope)reduce triglycerides and help with HDL. > Mal Triglycerides are made from sugar and alcohol I think they are meant to be consumed by use of the muscles, exercise. Niacin from supplements can have a lot of side efects all the vitamins and minerals should probably be gotten from food insead of a pill.
Bob
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