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Lisa - 22 Aug 2007 18:59 GMT
In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
program female need per day?

I could google it of course but I think people who've lived the weight
loss and are maintaining are better sources of info than some online
calculator or insurance company suggestions.
thanks
determined - 22 Aug 2007 19:08 GMT
> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> calculator or insurance company suggestions.
> thanks

I would shoot for around 10 calories per pound of current bodyweight.
Lisa - 23 Aug 2007 14:31 GMT
>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I would shoot for around 10 calories per pound of current bodyweight.

That would be too much currently, but I see what you mean.  Thanks.
Chris - 22 Aug 2007 19:54 GMT
> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> calculator or insurance company suggestions.
> thanks

This question is a bit too open-ended to answer.  It isn't clear
whether you mean calories needed to maintain your current weight or
calories needed to lose weight at a healthy rate (1-2 lbs/week).
Either way, the answer is dependent on your current body weight, not
on your frame size or height.  (Those will influence your ideal
weight, but not how many calories your body burns.)  Also, what does
your exercise program consist of?  To figure out calories needed to
maintain or lose weight, the two main factors that go into the
equation are your current bodyweight and the calories you burn through
exercise.  (Your age, which you've told us, is another factor.)  If
you'd rather not share this information here, you can use an online
calculator like the one at http://www.internetfitness.com/calculators/bmr.htm.
(This site will tell you your caloric needs to maintain weight.  If
you cut that by about 500 calories per day you should lose about 1 lb/
week.)

Whatever you find out by asking us or using a calculator, it will be
only an approxmation, and you'll have to experiment a bit to see what
works for you.  If you keep track of the calories consumed and the
effect on your weight, you'll be able to adjust as needed.

Chris
262/130s/130s
maintaining since June 2004
Lisa - 23 Aug 2007 15:04 GMT
>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> whether you mean calories needed to maintain your current weight or
> calories needed to lose weight at a healthy rate (1-2 lbs/week).

To lose, preferably at a safe, healthy rate, as you suggested.

> Either way, the answer is dependent on your current body weight, not
> on your frame size or height.  (Those will influence your ideal
> weight, but not how many calories your body burns.)

I see.

> Also, what does
> your exercise program consist of?

At the moment, walking and yoga specially geared toward morbidly obese
women. Pretty tame but it's enough for now.

> To figure out calories needed to
> maintain or lose weight, the two main factors that go into the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> works for you.  If you keep track of the calories consumed and the
> effect on your weight, you'll be able to adjust as needed.

Thanks a lot Chris, that helped very much!
Doug Freyburger - 22 Aug 2007 22:41 GMT
> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> loss and are maintaining are better sources of info than some online
> calculator or insurance company suggestions.

Simple starting point - Insurance tables run 10 pounds to low.  Look
up your height, add 10 pounds to its recommendations, then use a
guideline like 10 calories per pound.
Lisa - 23 Aug 2007 15:05 GMT
>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> up your height, add 10 pounds to its recommendations, then use a
> guideline like 10 calories per pound.

Noted.  Thanks Doug.
LFM - 23 Aug 2007 01:55 GMT
> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> calculator or insurance company suggestions.
> thanks

If you want to lose weight go for 1200 to 1600 calories per day.

And get off your butt and MOVE!  Increase your physical activity.  The more
you increase the better you'll do.
Lisa - 23 Aug 2007 15:06 GMT
>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> If you want to lose weight go for 1200 to 1600 calories per day.

Wow, that sounds low.

> And get off your butt and MOVE!  Increase your physical activity.  The more
> you increase the better you'll do.

Baby steps, LFM.  I don't want to burn out, be overwhelmed or give
myself a heart attack.  Thanks for your opinion, appreciated.
determined - 23 Aug 2007 17:07 GMT
>>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Baby steps, LFM.  I don't want to burn out, be overwhelmed or give myself
> a heart attack.  Thanks for your opinion, appreciated.

LFM is right of course - increasing your physical activity will help you in
leaps and bounds over diet alone, although diet is probably the most
important aspect.  You hadn't hinted in your original post that you were
morbidly obese, so obviously your physical activities are going to be
somewhat limited.  Do what you can.

Probably also if you are morbidly obese, 1200 calories IS too low.  How much
do you weigh?  Are you under a doctor's care?  With the extra considerations
for someone who is very overweight, it's important to be closely monitored
by a professional.

Congratulations on taking your first steps.
Cynthia P - 23 Aug 2007 23:40 GMT
>>>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>>>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> morbidly obese, so obviously your physical activities are going to be
> somewhat limited.  Do what you can.

Yes, be careful with the exercise, even walking can get you injured if
you are very heavy. I developed plantar fasciitis from mild walking
(mile a day/5-6 days a week at 3mph) and also from riding a recumbent
bike. Not that you shouldn't do exercise, but listen carefully to your
body, and if pain develops, see a doctor.

Water exercise is also very good when one is heavy. Less chance of
injury, it's fun and feels good.

> Probably also if you are morbidly obese, 1200 calories IS too low.  How much
> do you weigh?  Are you under a doctor's care?  With the extra considerations
> for someone who is very overweight, it's important to be closely monitored
> by a professional.
>
> Congratulations on taking your first steps.

1200 calories is, to my mind, ridiculously low for someone who is
morbidly obese. Seriously... don't go that low, because what will you
do if you hit a stall, hmmm?

I'm 5'7", medium frame, 50 years, and losing in a range of 1900-2200
calories a day, eaten as 5-6 small meals over the course of the day. I
do cardio by water aerobics, swimming, a very little walking
(currently suffering from plantar fasciitis), a little upright bike
riding, some Nordic Track ski machine and weights.

Slightly slowed down by gym closure this week for maintenance, sigh...
but trucking along with my Nordic Track and some bodyweight exercises
as best I can.

Signature

Cynthia
262/229/152

Lisa - 24 Aug 2007 14:54 GMT
>>>>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>>>>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> bike. Not that you shouldn't do exercise, but listen carefully to your
> body, and if pain develops, see a doctor.

Ouch.  You have my sympathy.  I developed that a few years back and it
was incredibly painful.

> Water exercise is also very good when one is heavy. Less chance of
> injury, it's fun and feels good.

If you can ignore the sniggers, shaking of numerous heads, giggling,
mumbled fat jokes and comments, and general shock etc., then yes, it's
fun.  I try to avoid going to the pool.  I hope that won't be my only
choice to exercise and remain uninjured. :-/

>> Probably also if you are morbidly obese, 1200 calories IS too low.  How much
>> do you weigh?  Are you under a doctor's care?  With the extra considerations
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I'm 5'7", medium frame, 50 years, and losing in a range of 1900-2200
> calories a day, eaten as 5-6 small meals over the course of the day.

That's what I want to do too, eat several small meals over the course of
a day.  I hope it works to keep my blood sugar leveled out and reduces
the feeling of hunger and the urge to binge.

> I
> do cardio by water aerobics, swimming, a very little walking
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> but trucking along with my Nordic Track and some bodyweight exercises
> as best I can.

Continued success to you and thanks for your story.
Cynthia P - 24 Aug 2007 17:33 GMT
>> Cynthia P wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Ouch.  You have my sympathy.  I developed that a few years back and it
> was incredibly painful.

Fortunately, I got treatment and changed my exercise up before it got
to the really awful point, but I definitely had a bad week or two.

>> Water exercise is also very good when one is heavy. Less chance of
>> injury, it's fun and feels good.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> fun.  I try to avoid going to the pool.  I hope that won't be my only
> choice to exercise and remain uninjured. :-/

OK, in general, I've found that a lot of the folks in water aerobics
are older, overweight, and I haven't seen a giggle or fat joke yet. To
be honest about it, at 50, I think I'm the youngest person or close to
it in the class. My husband goes on occasion and he is usually the
only male in the class. And also younger than most participants. And
he's more overweight than I am.

And even if I did, if it was the only safe way for me to exercise, I'd
do it anyway. Because folks who laugh at someone trying to improve
their bodies and lifestyle don't bear giving any attention to.

Don't let ignorant, rude people stop you from doing what you need to
do! I mean, whether it's the pool, or the weight room, there's always
someone who could make a joke or whatever, but ya gotta get past it.
It's about you and what you need to do, not them.

It probably isn't your only safe choice of exercise, but it is a good
choice, and if your gym is like that, you might want to look around
and see if there is a better one out there. Some gyms have quite a
compliment of folks who are overweight, elderly, physically
challenged, etc...  and mostly what you see is encouragement.

People start to notice that you are working hard after you've been
going a while and they respect it!

>> 1200 calories is, to my mind, ridiculously low for someone who is
>> morbidly obese. Seriously... don't go that low, because what will you
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> a day.  I hope it works to keep my blood sugar leveled out and reduces
> the feeling of hunger and the urge to binge.

It should. Be sure to get good lean protein with each meal, vegetables
and healthy fats. Fruits are OK too, but keep the ratio of veggies
higher than that of fruits. Watch portion sizes on starchy carbs and
if possible eat them after exercising and that will help.

It may not entirely drive away feelings of hunger, because those can
be mental as well as physical, but it does a good job on the physical
hungries for me!

I try to keep about 90% compliant... which means I get about 3-4 10%
meals a week. Those are the meals where I can eat something I want,
like pizza, or starches when I haven't exercised, etc...  I'll be
having one tonight... husband's office picnic/BBQ, though I plan to
try and keep the splurges to a minimum.

>> I
>> do cardio by water aerobics, swimming, a very little walking
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Continued success to you and thanks for your story.

You are welcome and I hope things go well for you on you weightloss
journey.

Signature

Cynthia
262/228.5/152

Chris - 24 Aug 2007 21:46 GMT
> Some gyms have quite a
> compliment of folks who are overweight, elderly, physically
> challenged, etc...  and mostly what you see is encouragement.
>
> People start to notice that you are working hard after you've been
> going a while and they respect it!

I had much the same thought, reading the original message.  At my gym
there are many members who are overweight or otherwise physically
outside the norm.  There are also lots of really buff younger folks.
But I think pretty much everyone respects the people who are coming to
the gym and doing something about it.  If you think about it, it seems
more likely that people would be laughing at an overweight person
hitting the buffet line at a restaurant than working out in a gym
(not, of course, that either is appropriate).

Chris
262/130s/130s
Lisa - 26 Aug 2007 10:46 GMT
>>> Cynthia P wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> You are welcome and I hope things go well for you on you weightloss
> journey.

Dear Cynthia, because of this encouraging post I took your advice and
suggested the family go swimming yesterday.  My husband took us to the
new pool that's opened up near where we live.  It wasn't crowded at all,
new and very nice.  I decided to look at the ceiling or down at the
floor and try not to pay attention to the reaction the sight of me in a
bathing suit might cause.  When I walked out into the main swim hall I
noticed after a while there were three women there easily as big as I
was.  The women who weren't as big as me had other flaws.  There wasn't
a perfect person in the place.  I swam five half laps of the pool,
played with my children, really enjoyed myself, and I feel better today
than I have in a long time.  My husband lost a pound but I'm too happy
to get on the scales.  I don't want to know, just want to enjoy the fact
that I went.  We're going again soon.  I just wanted to say thanks.

Lisa
Cynthia P - 26 Aug 2007 16:36 GMT
> Dear Cynthia, because of this encouraging post I took your advice and
> suggested the family go swimming yesterday.  My husband took us to the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> to get on the scales.  I don't want to know, just want to enjoy the fact
> that I went.  We're going again soon.  I just wanted to say thanks.

Lisa, I'm so proud of you! I know it isn't easy to face these kinds of
fears, but when we do, often, we find out they were groundless or
mostly so.

Walking is a good exercise and you can certainly do that too, but it
is especially good to have more than one exercise to turn to. Water
exercise is easy on the joints and often more enjoyable for those who
are starting back to an exercise program.

Glad you had fun! That's important too... because while we may, during
the course of losing weight, have to do some exericse we are not
entirely fond of, having some we really enjoy helps keep us on track
and progressing.

Signature

Cynthia
262/227/152

Lisa - 24 Aug 2007 14:23 GMT
>>>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>>>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Probably also if you are morbidly obese, 1200 calories IS too low.  How much
> do you weigh?  

340lbs., down from 370 in March of this year.  As of now had I continued
to lose I would weigh anywhere from 344-318 (@ 1-2lbs. per week), but I
find my initial ideas only got me so far and I'm going to need a more
solid plan to continue.  Just reducing the amounts I eat isn't helping
as much as I thought it would.

I'm also having difficulty with what to do about the stress I'm feeling
because of the lifestyle change.  That's the biggie because I'm a stress
eater to begin with and live with an anxiety disorder.  I don't take
drugs for that, I don't like to take them or be dependent on them if I
can help it.  To deal with it I use relaxation techniques and this has
helped somewhat, but there's a great deal to be considered and changed
before I reach the finish line.

From lurking here and the bit of research I've done so far I see I've
got to have both reachable short term goals and a long term goal, count
my calories every day, forever, exercise, basically change everything
about the way I was living before.  That's what I'm in the process of
doing now - setting up a plan for the rest of my life.

(sorry, TMI, but I got into it and kinda took off)

> Are you under a doctor's care?

For health problems caused by obesity, yes*.  For obesity, no.  I asked
and was told insurance doesn't cover anything to do with weight
reduction, which is considered to be under my own control and elective.
 I guess that makes sense but I sure could do with help for a
nutritionist.  I've eaten the wrong way for so long I'm not quite sure
where to start.  What I'll do to compensate is educate myself as much as
possible as to what a normal healthy person eats and how much they need.
 Posting here was my first step.

*(I developed high blood pressure back in March, the meds given me to
treat that have caused Glucose Intolerance, and I'm anemic.  Those are
the primary problems.  There are myriad lesser problems brought on by
stress to my muscles and joints.  In short I can still get around
reasonably well but my health is going south quickly.)

> With the extra considerations
> for someone who is very overweight, it's important to be closely monitored
> by a professional.

My doctor has agreed to and must monitor me, but he won't counsel or
help, so it's up to me to do what needs to be done.  As is fair, I
guess.  After all I got myself in this condition.

> Congratulations on taking your first steps.

Thanks.
Cynthia P - 24 Aug 2007 17:45 GMT
> 340lbs., down from 370 in March of this year.  As of now had I continued
> to lose I would weigh anywhere from 344-318 (@ 1-2lbs. per week), but I
> find my initial ideas only got me so far and I'm going to need a more
> solid plan to continue.  Just reducing the amounts I eat isn't helping
> as much as I thought it would.

It's not unusual to get to a point and then have to change up strategy
some. Portion control is good... you may also need to change what you
eat . I've never been much of a protein eater before, but I've found
it has helped me in the weight loss wars to eat plenty of protein,
healthy fats, lots of veggies, some fruit and some whole
grains/legumes.

> I'm also having difficulty with what to do about the stress I'm feeling
> because of the lifestyle change.  That's the biggie because I'm a stress
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> helped somewhat, but there's a great deal to be considered and changed
> before I reach the finish line.

Exercise, even mild forms like walking, can help some with the stress.
Relaxation techniques are also good. I'm starting to look into doing a
little yoga myself, have a DVD or two to try out.

It's an ongoing process, so don't beat yourself up that these changes
happen slowly.

>  From lurking here and the bit of research I've done so far I see I've
> got to have both reachable short term goals and a long term goal, count
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> (sorry, TMI, but I got into it and kinda took off)

Yep, that's about it. It's a lifestyle change. Keep telling yourself
what you want, keep telling yourself that you are the kind of person
who exercises and enjoys it, tell yourself you are the kind of person
who eats healthy foods and doesn't buy junk, etc... It's a sort of
reprogramming.

> *(I developed high blood pressure back in March, the meds given me to
> treat that have caused Glucose Intolerance, and I'm anemic.  Those are
> the primary problems.  There are myriad lesser problems brought on by
> stress to my muscles and joints.  In short I can still get around
> reasonably well but my health is going south quickly.)

Well, you are making the choice to change... and that's a good thing.
Small changes can make great improvements to health. I'm lucky, in
that my weight has only really impacted me on joints and energy
levels, but not particularly otherwise. My hubby though, he's
diabetic, has cholesterol and high blood pressure issues.

He's seen that through walking most days, his cholesterol and high
blood pressure are doing much better. He is on meds for both, but
improvement really came with better diet and exercise after we got
married.

If there is one thing I can say... keep an eye on ALL progress and not
just the scale. You may want to take a set of girth measurements and
watch to see if you are losing inches. Watch how clothes fit changes,
or jewelry or watch fit. Sometimes it is the smallest signs of
progress that will help keep you motivated. The scale can be quite
fickle and the body doesn't always lose fat in a straight line
process, so keeping track of things like how you feel after walking,
energy levels, inches lost, strength gained, blood pressure, blood
work readings, is all important.

Signature

Cynthia
262/298.5/152

Doug Freyburger - 25 Aug 2007 02:04 GMT
> 340lbs., down from 370 in March of this year.  As of now had I continued
> to lose I would weigh anywhere from 344-318 (@ 1-2lbs. per week), but I
> find my initial ideas only got me so far and I'm going to need a more
> solid plan to continue.  Just reducing the amounts I eat isn't helping
> as much as I thought it would.

I would like to modify my previous suggestion about calories then.

1) Look up your target weight in insurance tables.  Add 10 because
they
run 10 pounds too  low.  Multiply by 10 calories per pound.

2) Take your current weight.  Multiply by 10 calories per pound.

3) Average numbers from 1 and 2 and use that as your daily target
calories.  Redo every couple of months.

The idea behind this is if you start out based on your target you will
be eating too little for your current size.  Plus figure stored fat as
consuming less calories than lean.  Split the difference because it is
an easy method that works okay as an approximation.
Lisa - 26 Aug 2007 10:47 GMT
>> 340lbs., down from 370 in March of this year.  As of now had I continued
>> to lose I would weigh anywhere from 344-318 (@ 1-2lbs. per week), but I
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> consuming less calories than lean.  Split the difference because it is
> an easy method that works okay as an approximation.

Okay, will do.  Saved and in use.  Thank you.
LFM - 24 Aug 2007 00:00 GMT
>>> In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5 ft. 10 inch,
>>> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Wow, that sounds low.

You received a very generic answer because you posed a very generic
question.  The amount I recommended works for me...   If you aren't goint to
provide details then you can't expect answer.   Also, you stated you don't
want to google or use online calculators - then by posing a question to a
group like this will give you even a larger variety of answers and lord
knows - we are not experts in the field so who knows if any of the
information you receive is correct or not.  If you want to do this right you
need to take responsibility for yourself and research for youself.   Let
this be a lesson to you.

>> And get off your butt and MOVE!  Increase your physical activity.  The
>> more you increase the better you'll do.
>
> Baby steps, LFM.  I don't want to burn out, be overwhelmed or give myself
> a heart attack.  Thanks for your opinion, appreciated.

Ya know, your attitude is setting you up for failure.  You already don't
want to do your own research, you don't want to eat limited calories and you
don't want to exercise (or simply, move...  which could mean anything from
parking a little further from the grocery store entrance and walking the
extra steps).

Best of luck to you...  you certainly need it.
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 24 Aug 2007 00:38 GMT
> > Baby steps, LFM.  I don't want to burn out, be overwhelmed or give myself
> > a heart attack.  Thanks for your opinion, appreciated.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Best of luck to you...  you certainly need it.

I couldn't agree more.
em - 23 Aug 2007 23:09 GMT
Say you way 300 pounds and you want to weigh 150. If that's the case, break
your goal down into chunks, then multiply by ten. First goal, maybe 250. Try
2500 calories a day and see how that goes for a while. Losing? If so, great.
If not, lower the bar. That's what I did, worked for me. --
Lisa - 24 Aug 2007 14:39 GMT
> Say you way 300 pounds and you want to weigh 150. If that's the case,
> break your goal down into chunks, then multiply by ten. First goal,
> maybe 250. Try 2500 calories a day and see how that goes for a while.
> Losing? If so, great. If not, lower the bar. That's what I did, worked
> for me. --

Yes, I recognize that method.  I'm glad to hear it's working for you.  I
asked my husband this question not long ago - and it's important to note
he was a career army guy at one time so his answer was biased - and that
answer was what prompted me to ask for opinions in this newsgroup.  He
said for office personnel the daily caloric intake was 1600-1800.  For
those working outside an office it was 2000-2500 depending if they were
men or women and the degree of physical work they did.  For those in
basic training it was up to but not over 2800 per day.

I have to take into consideration I'm not in the same category as a
normal weight person in the army, but the closest I'd come to that
scenario if I were normal would be those who take in 1600-1800 per day.
 This is where he suggested I begin.  I thought that too low so I
sought a second opinion.

The doctors I've spoken to in the past have consistently suggested I
begin at 1500 calories and stay there.  I know it'd bring quick results
but I don't know how long it can be reasonably maintained.  This is what
makes me hesitant to dive into something that feels that radical.
Radical steps feel like a recipe for failure.  As long as I'm not in
immediate danger a more gradual approach seems more correct.  Like you
said, if I'm eating 3400 calories per day to maintain the weight I'm at
now, starting at 2500 and seeing if that brings about a loss, then
reducing gradually if it doesn't, sounds more sensible.

I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot
of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
intervention.  (not a judgment there, just not my personal choice)
Thanks a bunch for your answer.
Del Cecchi - 25 Aug 2007 03:41 GMT
>> Say you way 300 pounds and you want to weigh 150. If that's the case,
>> break your goal down into chunks, then multiply by ten. First goal,
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> intervention.  (not a judgment there, just not my personal choice)
> Thanks a bunch for your answer.

I think you will find that 1500 to 2000 calories is a much smaller
amount of food than you visualize it as being.  I didn't have a huge
amount to lose, but losing it required eating much less than I had been.

Here is an experiment I just thought up.  Take the things you will be
eating or like to eat and measure out 1500 calories worth and put it all
on the table at once, just to see what a day's food looks like.

Signature

Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

Lisa - 26 Aug 2007 10:49 GMT
<snipped>
> I think you will find that 1500 to 2000 calories is a much smaller
> amount of food than you visualize it as being.  I didn't have a huge
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> eating or like to eat and measure out 1500 calories worth and put it all
> on the table at once, just to see what a day's food looks like.

I use FitDay and agree, 1500 calories compared to what I was used to
before looks and feels like starving.  I have to grow accustomed to that
gradually.
Cynthia P - 26 Aug 2007 17:17 GMT
> <snipped>
>> I think you will find that 1500 to 2000 calories is a much smaller
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> before looks and feels like starving.  I have to grow accustomed to that
> gradually.

One thing on this... eat plenty of vegetables with each meal and eat
fruit with some meals. I eat around 2200 calories per day... and I do
not feel remotely like it is a small amount of food, even split into
5-6 meals. A cup or two of veggies at every meal takes care of that
rather nicely!

If anything, there are days when it's hard to eat it all!

Most of my meals run around 350-400 calories, sometimes a little more,
sometimes a little less. I try to eat the more caloric meals in the
morning, tapering to slightly less caloric in the evening.

I can have a six egg white omelette (or sometimes 5 egg whites and 1
omega-3 egg) with a sliced zucchini and about a half cup of red pepper
and a piece of Alpine Lace reduced fat Swiss, plus either half a large
orange or a whole small orange for a meal. That's an entire plateful
of food! It looks like you are eating a restaurant sized omelet... but
it is far less calories.

I have chicken salads that are likewise, a nice satisfying plate full
of food. Not every meal fills a plate, others are only salad plate
sized, but those are meals that may have more fats included.

Here's a picture of one of my chicken salads... one is packed in the
ZipLoc container (I usually make up a couple days worth of salad meals
to have handy and store in the fridge this way.) and one is on the
plate about to be eaten, topped with some walnut pieces and low fat
dressing. (Other times I might skip the nuts and use an olive
oil/balsamic vinegar dressing.)

Add a piece of fruit and you ARE filling that plate.

Contents are about 3-3.5 ounces chicken breast (no skin), a good
handful of spinach, a slice of red onion, some red pepper, 5-6 baby
carrots, and maybe 9 slices of cucumber. Looks small packed in ZipLoc,
but definitely fills most of a plate.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z37/graycyn/Precision%20Nutrition/standard_ch
icken_salad_P7124103.jpg


Not that I eat salad for every meal, but usually at least two meals of
my 5-6 meal day are salad for convenience's sake. Plus they are
portable, should I need to take meals with me on the go.

Signature

Cynthia
262/227/152

Lisa - 27 Aug 2007 11:10 GMT
>> <snipped>
>>> I think you will find that 1500 to 2000 calories is a much smaller
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> my 5-6 meal day are salad for convenience's sake. Plus they are
> portable, should I need to take meals with me on the go.

That looks delicious!  *saving this post in a folder for later
reference*  Thanks! :)
em - 26 Aug 2007 05:21 GMT
> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot of
> weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
> intervention.  (not a judgment there, just not my personal choice) Thanks
> a bunch for your answer.

I don't know what you consider a "lot" of weight to lose. I started out at
300 & am on my way to 220, maybe a little bit less, and am currently ~245. I
did what I suggested to you -- cut back calories in a couple of steps.
Recently, I went to low-carb. I did pretty well for a while but the past two
weeks have been questionable. Time will tell.
Lisa - 26 Aug 2007 11:14 GMT
>> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot
>> of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> at 300 & am on my way to 220, maybe a little bit less, and am currently
> ~245.

Very well done.  I remember when you first began.  I was lurking back
then, interested in your progress.

> I did what I suggested to you -- cut back calories in a couple of
> steps. Recently, I went to low-carb. I did pretty well for a while but
> the past two weeks have been questionable. Time will tell.

I'm nowhere near considering what results eating a certain mixture of
foods will bring me.  That kind of fine-tuning is out of my galaxy atm.
 Sounds kinda scary, too.  Can one not get to the point where they're a
healthy weight and that's it?  Or does it take science to achieve that
where obesity is a factor?  Like, am I going to get to a point where my
body won't lose any more weight even though I'm still too heavy, and
I'll have to trick it through certain food combinations to go lower?
Chris - 26 Aug 2007 22:37 GMT
> >> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot
> >> of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> body won't lose any more weight even though I'm still too heavy, and
> I'll have to trick it through certain food combinations to go lower?

It's always going to be about calories in vs. calories out.  But most
people find it easier to limit calories, eat food they enjoy, and feel
best when they pay some attention to the macronutrient (carbs,
proteins, fats) content of their diet.  This becomes more important
when one is limiting calories than it might be otherwise.  Personally,
I eat a diet relatively higher in protein than average, and try
somewhat to limit "bad" carbs and fats, but not religiously.  ("Bad"
carbs are things like sugar and white flour; good carbs are things
like whole grains and veggies.  "Bad" fats are those in meat and
dairy; good fats are those in fish, nuts, etc.)  But for now, try to
eat a healthy mix of foods at the calorie level you've chosen and
don't worry about the fine points.

Chris
262/130s/130s
maintaining since June 2004
Lisa - 27 Aug 2007 11:14 GMT
>>>> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot
>>>> of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> eat a healthy mix of foods at the calorie level you've chosen and
> don't worry about the fine points.

Yeah, I think you're right.  Don't be concerned about the end of the
game until you get to the end of the game.  Concentrate on the now.

> Chris
> 262/130s/130s
> maintaining since June 2004

^^^ Hope!
em - 27 Aug 2007 19:45 GMT
>>> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a lot
>>> of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without surgical
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>> Recently, I went to low-carb. I did pretty well for a while but the past
>> two weeks have been questionable. Time will tell.

Hi Lisa!

> I'm nowhere near considering what results eating a certain mixture of
> foods will bring me.  That kind of fine-tuning is out of my galaxy atm.
> Sounds kinda scary, too.  Can one not get to the point where they're a
> healthy weight and that's it?  Or does it take science to achieve that
> where obesity is a factor?

Lisa, there's no science whatsoever. (Well, very little, anyway.) You need
to find a way to measure and control what you eat. For most people its
counting calories. I did that a long time. It works for everyone who commits
and sticks to it. Now I count carbs instead. That works for me but maybe not
for everyone.

If your goal is to lose weight, all you have to do is count calories. I kept
a log of all the foods I ate and how many calories, and added the calories
together throughout the day to see where I was at. Simple. This is what you
need: a pencil, a small pad of paper, info from the labels on the back of
food packages, a scale, measuring cups and spoons and the USDA database (to
look up calories content of different foods).

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

It might take a little learning and a bit of discipline to get started, but
once you get into the swing of things its not hard at all. As far as the
quality of the food you eat, don't worry about that for now. Get on-track
eating fewer calories. Stop drinking/eating really sugary stuff like soda
and cake 'cause it uses up your daily alotment of calories really fast.

A good technical explanation of calories and all that can be found at The
Hackers Diet website (google it, if you want). Otherwise... I don't know
what to recommend in terms of a book or whatever that teaches calorie
counting -- but there's got to be a website or something out there to help
you get started.

Em

> Like, am I going to get to a point where my body won't lose any more
> weight even though I'm still too heavy, and I'll have to trick it through
> certain food combinations to go lower?
Lisa - 29 Aug 2007 10:37 GMT
>>>> I'm especially interested in the experiences of those who've had a
>>>> lot of weight to lose and how they did it, if they did it without
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Hi Lisa!

Hi em. :)

>> I'm nowhere near considering what results eating a certain mixture of
>> foods will bring me.  That kind of fine-tuning is out of my galaxy
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Okay, I've started counting calories with FitDay.  Thanks so much for
this link.  I found it a while back and had deleted it since then.  I
was looking for it the other day and didn't know where to start looking.

> It might take a little learning and a bit of discipline to get started,
> but once you get into the swing of things its not hard at all. As far as
> the quality of the food you eat, don't worry about that for now. Get
> on-track eating fewer calories. Stop drinking/eating really sugary stuff
> like soda and cake 'cause it uses up your daily alotment of calories
> really fast.

Still with you - avoiding soda.  Started drinking tea instead (herbal
tea) and have always liked water.  There is a question I want to pose to
the group concerning this but that's for another thread.

> A good technical explanation of calories and all that can be found at
> The Hackers Diet website (google it, if you want). Otherwise... I don't
> know what to recommend in terms of a book or whatever that teaches
> calorie counting -- but there's got to be a website or something out
> there to help you get started.

I will check that out.  (really gonna do it, too)  Thanks for all your help!
Doug Freyburger - 28 Aug 2007 18:45 GMT
> > I did what I suggested to you -- cut back calories in a couple of
> > steps. Recently, I went to low-carb. I did pretty well for a while but
> > the past two weeks have been questionable. Time will tell.
>
> I'm nowhere near considering what results eating a certain mixture of
> foods will bring me.  That kind of fine-tuning is out of my galaxy atm.

Consider that your current idea of what food mixtures are normal
might be very badly off.  Both low fat and low carb work based on
eating food mixtures that tend to reduce total appetite and they
do in in very healthy ways for most people.  A certain percentage
of the population is never hungry on a low fat diet so those people
should do that.  A certain percentage of people is never hungry on
a low carb diet so those people should do that.  (Where "never"
actually means something like until they hit 10-20 pounds to lose
by which time it's all about calories and hunger no matter what).

>   Sounds kinda scary, too.

Why?  Broccoli and beef sounds scary?

> Can one not get to the point where they're a
> healthy weight and that's it?

If that was that no one would be fat.  The losing is actually the
easy part.  But so many lose and then regain.  Consider simple
cause and effect - Go back to what got us fat in the first place,
get fat all over again.  The "that's it" part must include a
maintenance phase and there is zero possibility that maintenance
will be eating the food that got us fat in the first place.

> Or does it take science to achieve that
> where obesity is a factor?

Designing a plan takes either science and/or gathering data
a detailed experiment plan that adjusts actions based on the
data.  Guess what?  Any popular book in the field has about
a decade of this sort of work behind it.

But following one of the plan, what that takes can be called
faith.  Step out in faith.  Read the book, follow the directions
in it.  Most especially any book out there is going to have
at least one point that you disagree with or don't understand.
Step out in faith and do it anyways - It's these points that are
what took the authors a decade of work to figure out.  The
good plans work better than anything obvious that you can
come up with.  Go ahead and read all the science you want
about your plan of choice, but the science isn't necessary to
step out in faith and follow the directions.

> Like, am I going to get to a point where my
> body won't lose any more weight even though I'm still too heavy,

It's a common enough complaint but it's one that only happens
to folks with under say 100 pounds to lose.  And a lot of the
time it's from not following the non-obvious parts of the
directions.

> and
> I'll have to trick it through certain food combinations to go lower?

I need to call you on playing a mind game when it comes to the
way you've worded this.  You have no reason to think that the
mixture of foods you've been eating is in any way healthly or
correct.  It very likely contributed to your gain.  So why is an
adjustment that makes things better to be called a trick?
Lisa - 29 Aug 2007 10:53 GMT
>>> I did what I suggested to you -- cut back calories in a couple of
>>> steps. Recently, I went to low-carb. I did pretty well for a while but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Consider that your current idea of what food mixtures are normal
> might be very badly off.  

'Very badly off' is a kind understatement in my case.

> Both low fat and low carb work based on
> eating food mixtures that tend to reduce total appetite and they
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> actually means something like until they hit 10-20 pounds to lose
> by which time it's all about calories and hunger no matter what).

Interesting.

About the 10-20 lbs. to lose... is cutting my calories going to be a
matter of being hungry most of the time?  Of feeling and getting used to
an uncomfortable feeling of emptiness I'm not used to?  Because if it is
I need to be prepared and get my mind right about it.  It's having hope
that there must be a better more comfortable way where it's not so much
sacrifice and work that will defeat me.  In your personal situation has
it been getting used to that feeling of emptiness and maybe associating
it with something positive (ie. - doing healthy things for your body)?

>>   Sounds kinda scary, too.
>
> Why?  Broccoli and beef sounds scary?

No, not at all.  I love beef and love broccoli more.  See, this reminds
me that I wouldn't know a carb or low-fat way of eating if it snuck up
behind me and bit me on the patoot.  I've got a long way to go in
educating myself about food.

>> Can one not get to the point where they're a
>> healthy weight and that's it?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> maintenance phase and there is zero possibility that maintenance
> will be eating the food that got us fat in the first place.

So thin people are thin not because they have good genes (or not all of
them, anyway) but because they don't eat what they want in the amounts
they want every time they want it, and they exercise on a regular basis.

Drat those deceptive skinny people.  They make it look so easy.  Skinny
people should be forced to wear t-shirts that say "I may look good but
I'm still suffering".

>> Or does it take science to achieve that
>> where obesity is a factor?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> data.  Guess what?  Any popular book in the field has about
> a decade of this sort of work behind it.

Aha.  Looks like I've jumped in at a good time, then.  I can remember
when these diets/health plans were mostly guesswork and speculation.

> But following one of the plan, what that takes can be called
> faith.  Step out in faith.  Read the book, follow the directions
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> about your plan of choice, but the science isn't necessary to
> step out in faith and follow the directions.

:)  I like this.

>> Like, am I going to get to a point where my
>> body won't lose any more weight even though I'm still too heavy,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> correct.  It very likely contributed to your gain.  So why is an
> adjustment that makes things better to be called a trick?

An unconscious mind game but yes, I see what you mean.
Doug Freyburger - 29 Aug 2007 17:33 GMT
> > Both low fat and low carb work based on
> > eating food mixtures that tend to reduce total appetite and they
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> About the 10-20 lbs. to lose... is cutting my calories going to be a
> matter of being hungry most of the time?

With more than 20 to lose it should be doable to drop pounds steadily
without significant hunger.  For most either low fat or low carb will
do
it with nearly none at all.  A small number of people have broken
metabolisms where nothing works.  So pick either low fat or low carb
(My bias - I'm a low carber who was always hungry trying to low fat
so I suggest trying low carb first) and commit to it 6 months or so.
Good results stick with it forever, bad results switch to the other
side
for the next 6 months.

But in the last 10-20 pounds there doesn't seem much way out of
being hungry much of the time.  How hungry, that's a matter of
skill, fine tuning, patience.  It shouldn't take much hunger to get
the
rest of the way down but it won't be near zero like the earlier
pounds.

> Of feeling and getting used to
> an uncomfortable feeling of emptiness I'm not used to?

There are many aspects of hunger.  If you just mean the rumbling
in the stomach, that gets less interesting quickly.  And since
either low fat or low carb allow reasonable portions you'll eat
regularly so it won't happen.

But there's a less specific type of empty feeling that's really the
body craving a specific type of nutrient.  Much harder to figure
out.  I thought fat cravings were not sharp but they never let up
until I ate something greasy.  Of course eating something
greasy meant going off my low fat plan.  I thought carb cravings
were sharp but they let up if I either ate something starchy or
continued through the plan.  Turns out carb cravings go away
completely after some time of low enough carb intake.  It's like
there's a "carb tank" that alarms when it's partially full but not
when it's either empty or full.  That "carb tank" is the body's
glycogen stores.  I think that cut-off of cravings is low carbing's
biggest advantage - No fat cravings because it's high fat, no
carb cravings because the alarm turns off when the tank's
empty.

> Because if it is
> I need to be prepared and get my mind right about it.  It's having hope
> that there must be a better more comfortable way where it's not so much
> sacrifice and work that will defeat me.  In your personal situation has
> it been getting used to that feeling of emptiness and maybe associating
> it with something positive (ie. - doing healthy things for your body)?

My personal experience is I considered the Induction 2 weeks of
Atkins to be a boot camp I had to get through.  Then clear hunger
free all the way down to 10 pounds to go.  Then ponder the choice
of using hunger to force the rest or settle for being 10 over goal.
Make no mistake - The first 2 weeks weren't all that easy.
Especially not the anti-obvious part of dosing myself with very high
fat levels in response to any carb cravings.  Mentally difficult to
do that, but it reduced the time that was difficult down to several
days.

Atkins being high fat, the hunger just doesn't come back until far
longer than I expected.  Dr A claimed that fat is more satiating than
either carbs or protein, yet fat at a meal isn't any more filling than
protein.  Somehow fat has more staying power to keep the hunger
from coming back so that must be what he meant.  For me anyways.
Because I don't have any of the other types of emptiness the
rumble in my stomach becomes little more than a weird noise.
Bizarre experience but that's what happened and that's why I do
well on low carb.

> >>   Sounds kinda scary, too.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> behind me and bit me on the patoot.  I've got a long way to go in
> educating myself about food.

Read the book!  I may be a biased low carber but if you chose
a low fat plan I'll have the same stance - Read that book and
follow those directions.

> >> Can one not get to the point where they're a
> >> healthy weight and that's it?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> them, anyway) but because they don't eat what they want in the amounts
> they want every time they want it, and they exercise on a regular basis.

Or because their genes never told them to enter the vicious
cycle of cravings that got us fat in the first place.  "Be smart,
don't start" would be such nice advice if diet were as simple as
cigarettes.

> Drat those deceptive skinny people.  They make it look so easy ...

To read the unsympathetic and bluntly idiotic messages by the
skinnies, it's clear they *do* find it easy and they are too stupid
to realize that "it is true for me" does not equate to "it is true for
everyone".

On that front, have you ever heard any of those people who claim
there is pleasure in physical exercise?  *Classic* case of "it is
true for me" being extended to "it is true for everyone".  It is SO
tempting for me to fall into the trap that since it's false for me
others must be making it up.  I didn't enjoy high school soccer
because it released endorphins or whatever.  I just plain liked
the game.  But I figure I use my toothbrush every day and there's
no pleasure in that, so why shouldn't I use the treadmill the same?

> >> Or does it take science to achieve that
> >> where obesity is a factor?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Aha.  Looks like I've jumped in at a good time, then.  I can remember
> when these diets/health plans were mostly guesswork and speculation.

The fact is there are a lot of plans that are guesswork and
speculation.  Any of the fad diets - For example any plan that
lacks a chapter in maintenance.

But there are many types of plan and they all work and they
all have their own principles.  One isn't false just because the
next disagrees with it.  Metabolism isn't that simple.

Which plan will work for you, that part does seem guesswork.
It's why I suggest starting with one type and doing a reassessment
after 6 months.  For that matter if you're happy with you own
plan 6 months in then it will be time to take the strong parts of
related plans.  There's more to low carb than Atkins, more to
paleolithic than Neanderthin, more to combination systems than
Fit for Life and so on.  But in the first 6 months, pick a plan
and go with it.

> > But following one of the plan, what that takes can be called
> > faith.  Step out in faith.  Read the book, follow the directions
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> :)  I like this.

You won't like it the first time you hit a point in the directions
that tell you to do something that runs against the obvious.
On Atkins unlimited food for the first 14 days then that shuts
off like a switch?  Crazy!  But it does reduce the impact of the
early cravings.  Only 14 days in switching from a quota of 20
to a quota of 25?  But if low is good lower must be better!
(Except the science doesn't say that and neither does even
one popular low carb plan).  it says I can add a veggie for that
next 5 grams so I can add corn, right?  Nope, use the carb
ladder page for what to add when.  I'm in ketosis and losing,
so why does the "Ongoing Weight Loss" phase say I now
move up to get out of ketosis?  Yup, that's what the process
is.

Other plans have different anti-obvious parts.  It's what the
hard data said when the author did that decade of
experimentation.  It's why the book can do a better job than
doing the obvious.
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 26 Aug 2007 20:57 GMT
Lisa wrote: > In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5
ft. 10 inch,
> x-large frame (measured), previously sedentary/just starting an exercise
> program female need per day? I could google it of course but I think people who've lived the weight
> loss and are maintaining are better sources of info than some online calculator or insurance company suggestions.

Mary responds: Ah, but no matter what, one size fits all is unlikely
to fit you, and you'll be back saying I'm eating the calculated amount
and I'm not losing weight!! Or, if you are very lucky, you'll be
saying I'm eating the calculated amount and I'm losing too fast (ah,
to be one of those rarities). Seriously, metabolism, and your activity
level are something you must have to play with. You start with 2000
calories a day and a certain amount of exercise, and then you adjust
the calories and/or the activity level to the point where you are
losing at a consistent rate you can live with. You have to play with
it - and if you plateau (which many do), you have to do some further
tinkering to get things moving in the right direction again.
Lisa - 27 Aug 2007 11:11 GMT
> Lisa wrote: > In your opinion how many calories would a 40 yr. old, 5
> ft. 10 inch,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> it - and if you plateau (which many do), you have to do some further
> tinkering to get things moving in the right direction again.

Thanks for your answer Mary.  I'm taking everything I learn here into
consideration.  I'm seeing a pattern emerge, too, so I think it'll work
for me.
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 27 Aug 2007 22:53 GMT
Lisa, one thing you might want to do as a start is to get yourself a
small set of scales (you can get a good basic one for under $10) and
start keeping a food diary. The reason to do that is to get a baseline
of exactly what your current caloric intake is. The reason for the
SCALES is so you can't kid yourself on portion size - and lots of
people do - they just CAN'T understand why they are gaining weight,
and then you find out that they are basing their estimates of their
caloric intake on a really distorted notion of a serving.

Once you have an idea of what you currently eat daily, then you start
playing. If you run a deficit of 500 calories a day, you will lose a
pound a week (whether you accomplish that by eating less, or
exercising more, or some combination).

M
Lisa - 29 Aug 2007 10:39 GMT
> Lisa, one thing you might want to do as a start is to get yourself a
> small set of scales (you can get a good basic one for under $10) and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and then you find out that they are basing their estimates of their
> caloric intake on a really distorted notion of a serving.

Got one.  Measures down to grams.  Boy I never knew those little things
were so expensive!  The scales, not the grams.  Is that 'makin' a buck
off the fat folks and health conscious' I smell?

> Once you have an idea of what you currently eat daily, then you start
> playing. If you run a deficit of 500 calories a day, you will lose a
> pound a week (whether you accomplish that by eating less, or
> exercising more, or some combination).

That's my goal.  I ran this past the hubby and he scoffed but I think
it'll work.  He says I should start at 1600 cal./day and stay there
indefinitely until it all comes off.  He's not a bad guy but very
opinionated.  We'll see who's scoffing twenty pounds from now.  ;)
 
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