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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2008Trans Fat?
I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it crackers What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then ". . .vegatable oil (canola, cottonseed, palm, sunflower and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil with tbhq for greshness) . . ." How can they use partially hydrogenated oil then state 0 grams trans fat? Tom. > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers > What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then ". . .vegatable oil (canola, > cottonseed, palm, sunflower and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil with > tbhq for greshness) . . ." How can they use partially hydrogenated oil then > state 0 grams trans fat? Below a certain threshold level (I think it's a gram per serving), they are allowed to say "no trans fats" or whatever they said. C'mon, that much won't hurt you. Nobody ever died from smoking one cigarette. > > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > > crackers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > C'mon, that much won't hurt you. Nobody ever died from > smoking one cigarette. Sure, and when someone died from smoking hundreds of thousands of cigarettes, it was not any single particular one of those cigarettes that did him in. (Certainly not the last one; he had advanced cancer already when he was having /that/ one, so it was a freebie!) Doh. > > > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > > > crackers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that did him in. (Certainly not the last one; he had advanced cancer > already when he was having /that/ one, so it was a freebie!) http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/168 says that 1 g of trans fats have the equivalent harm of 10 g of saturated fat. But alcohol consumption can reverse the effect of saturated fat intake. -- Ron >http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/168 says that 1 g of >trans fats have the equivalent harm of 10 g of saturated fat. But >alcohol consumption can reverse the effect of saturated fat intake. Thank goodness. Jo Anne >>>> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >>>> crackers [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > Ron Thanks for the link, but it doesn't say "alcohol consumption can reverse the effect of saturated fat intake." What it says is that the correlation is stronger among people who rarely or never consume alcohol (and that more research is needed).  SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >> crackers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > C'mon, that much won't hurt you. Nobody ever died from > smoking one cigarette. How often have you heard of somebody buying one pack of cigarettes in his lifetime and throwing 19 of them away? Chances are, Tom would like to eat the whole box sooner or later. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom. A certain TV personality says we have the best government money can buy. Thus, it is legal to lie. >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat >> Cheez-it crackers What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > A certain TV personality says we have the best government money can > buy. Thus, it is legal to lie. A mix of completely hydrogenated with non-hydrogenated oil would have the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. On Mar 7, 10:02 pm, DZ <16...@2884513823.202125527.21602.8715.4584> wrote: > >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat > >> Cheez-it crackers What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be > called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. I first became aware of this when I realized that COFFEE-MATE contains an ingredient called sodium caseinate which is a milk derivative, but is classified as a non-dairy product. But why is the American cuisine comprised of Coffeemate, Splenda and Cheezit crackers? Needing to eat items of this kind is just as foolish as quibbling over the tiny bits of "trans fat" or similar things they might contain. >>> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat >>> Cheez-it crackers What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be > called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. Ah, but waters are still muddy. Hydrogenation uses catalysts, such as nickel, a known carcinogen. I have read that trace amounts of the catalyst remain in the end product. > A mix of completely hydrogenated with non-hydrogenated oil would have > the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be > called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. Why would it not have trans fat? >> A mix of completely hydrogenated with non-hydrogenated oil would have >> the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be >> called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. > > Why would it not have trans fat? Because completely hydrogenated oil has no double bonds. >>> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat >>> Cheez-it crackers What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the intermediate consistency and the melting point, and can also be > called "partially hydrogenated oil". That would have no trans fats. But wouldn't "completely hydrogenated soybean oil" (I've never heard of such a thing!) also have to be listed as a potential ingredient? I'm curious what the serving size is, and what the saturated and total fat figures are. I do remember reading somewhere that up to a gram (or perhaps up to 1.5 grams) could be represented as "0g" on the Nutrition Facts panel. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I do remember reading somewhere that up to a gram (or perhaps up to 1.5 > grams) could be represented as "0g" on the Nutrition Facts panel. I found the following: "Moreover, FDA notes that the increment for listing trans fat is consistent with increments used for listing total fat and saturated fat. Therefore, the agency is finalizing Sec. 101.9(c)(2)(ii) to state that trans fat shall be expressed, as proposed, to the nearest 0.5 g increment below 5 g and to the nearest gram increment above 5 g." -- Ron >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >> crackers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thus, it is legal to lie. Will Rogers was a TV personality? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom. The legal definition is that if there is less that 500 mg of trans-fats per serving, they can state on the package that there is "0 grams of trans-fat per serving". The law allows them to "round" to the nearest gram. SignaturePramesh Rutaji p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom. It's the miracle of rounding and small serving sizes. You really have to watch what companies consider 'one serving'. Some are ridiculously small so that they can round the trans fats, saturated fats, etc to zero. SignatureJeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines." > > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > > crackers [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Jeri > "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines." Even non-nutritive sweetners like Splenda and Equal contain 4 calories per pack...just under 5. At 5, they would have to call it 5 and they don't want to do that. Nowhere on Splenda's website does it tell you that and I had to email the Co. several times to get them to admit there were 4 cal per package. They were very defensive about it telling me how many fewer calories than sugar there are in their product and that it is made from sugar. Still, when people bake with the stuff, they do get significant calories. I'm certain a good chemist starting with sugar could make any number of deadly poisons too, so that made from sugar tidbit is just misleading hype. dkw On Mar 7, 11:06 am, "dkw12...@yahoo.com" <dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm certain a good chemist starting with sugar could make > any number of deadly poisons too, so that made from sugar > tidbit is just misleading hype. Of course, there are terrible poisons which are made of protein or peptides. And the ``chemists'' responsible for them are living cells: plants, animals and bacteria. So just by combining the amino acids, the building blocks needed by your body, in a certain sequence, you can make something nasty like snake venom, ricin, botulin, tetanospasmin, ... On Mar 7, 1:06 pm, "dkw12...@yahoo.com" <dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Even non-nutritive sweetners like Splenda and Equal contain 4 calories > per pack...just under 5. At 5, they would have to call it 5 and they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > chemist starting with sugar could make any number of deadly poisons > too, so that made from sugar tidbit is just misleading hype. dkw For equivalent sweetening effects Splenda and Equal have considerably less calories. -- Ron > On Mar 7, 1:06 pm, "dkw12...@yahoo.com" <dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Ron And grey market liquid sucralose has no carbs or calories. > > On Mar 7, 1:06 pm, "dkw12...@yahoo.com" <dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What is grey market liquid sucralose? dkw <snip> >> And grey market liquid sucralose has no carbs or calories.- Hide >> quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > What is grey market liquid sucralose? dkw Disclaimer: This is my opinion and you'll probably find many who buy the stuff who have different opinions. It's liquid sweetener made from pure sucralose (that's the claim) and water by this person who makes it and sells it online for quite a lot of money. So far McNeil refuses to sell liquid Splenda or pure sucralose in the US so who knows where this person is getting it from, how pure it really is, or even how sanitary the conditions are where it's being made. People who buy it call it grey market because they don't want to admit they're buying black market. SignatureJeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines." > <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > People who buy it call it grey market because they don't want to admit > they're buying black market. I can't say I know for sure, but my understanding is that sucralose is available to food manufacturers in a concentrated form without additives. My guess is that someone has a connection in the food industry. Also, I have read that sucralose is available in Japan. Presumably, it could be imported. I have tried four grey market sources. Three taste like the real stuff. The fourth was obviously sugar in water. Of the three good ones, one went out of business. That leaves two, that I know of. By weight, the powder sold in the supermarkets is almost identical to sugar. Somebody is exaggerating the claim as to the ratio of the supermarket product to sugar. For a diabetic, maltodextrine is a concern. Since the hypothesis is that the product came from the folks who control the patent and was then diverted after they were paid, I felt grey market seemed right. It is not like the mafia had a lab that made sucralose. I read somewhere that the patent is not on sucralose itself, but on a technique for manufacturing it. >> <snip> >>>> And grey market liquid sucralose has no carbs or calories.- Hide [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I read somewhere that the patent is not on sucralose itself, but on a > technique for manufacturing it. By volume the stuff in the supermarket is like sugar. By weight it is much less. A large pouch, claimed to be equivilent to 6.75 pounds of sugar is actually 13.1 oz (371 gms) and the first ingredient is maltodextrin. Maltodextrin has 4 cal per gram. So the pouch has about 1500 calories. The equivilent sugar is about 3000 gms or 12000 calories. As for patents, I bet there are both composition of matter and manufacturing method patents, unless the compound was previously discovered long ago or by someone who didn't patent it. >>> <snip> >>>>> And grey market liquid sucralose has no carbs or calories.- Hide [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > manufacturing method patents, unless the compound was previously > discovered long ago or by someone who didn't patent it. Sucralose was discovered in 1976. >>>> <snip> >>>>>> And grey market liquid sucralose has no carbs or calories.- Hide [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sucralose was discovered in 1976. So the patent would have expired, being good for 17 years. In this case, 1976 counts as "long ago" in my book. thanks. > >>> dkw12...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > manufacturing method patents, unless the compound was previously > > discovered long ago or by someone who didn't patent it. Its so cute to say "Sucralose was discovered in 1976." Like there was a big pile of it somewhere and lo and behold, someone discovered it and now we can all live on it, revel in it and have it and hold it and we named it YumYumLand. > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers > What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then ". . .vegatable oil (canola, > cottonseed, palm, sunflower and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil with > tbhq for greshness) . . ." How can they use partially hydrogenated oil then > state 0 grams trans fat? You might as well eat crackers made out of sawdust! Why do you eat such garbage? >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >> crackers [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Why do you eat such garbage? My mother used to buy Arnold's Protein Bread, perhaps because they were a sponsor of Carleton Fredericks' radio show. But we never ate much bread anyway, and why we needed protein in our bread, considering we were getting plenty of high-quality protein in our diets from real protein foods, is beyond me. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers > What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then ". . .vegatable oil (canola, > cottonseed, palm, sunflower and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil with > tbhq for greshness) . . ." How can they use partially hydrogenated oil then > state 0 grams trans fat? I need a lot more clarity on the whole trans fat issue. For one thing, I'm not sure how much of it appears in foods generally considered wholesome, and this business about (artificially) hydrogenated fats has me confused. (I've long been annoyed at the way ingredients lists have gotten away from the simple idea of listing *all* the ingredients in descending order of weight.) Here's what I glommed from a Little Debbie Fudge Brownie box. It's nice to see they avoid the "may contain" nonsense, but these morsels are really rich, and I can't understand how they can get away with the 0g trans fat claim. Perhaps we should avoid all partially (or totally!) hydrogenated fats, though the term is apparently used sometimes for saturated fats which have never been treated by hydrogenation. Note that this box costs about a dollar and contains a whole day's fat, not to mention a whopping 100g of sugar. When I was depressed, I used to put away a box at one go! Nutrition Facts Serving Size 1 Brownie (61g) Servings Per Container 5 Amount Per Serving Calories 290 Calories from Fat 120 %Daily Value* Total Fat 13g 20% Saturated Fat 3.5g 18% Trans Fat 0g Cholesterol 10mg 3% Sodium 150mg 6% Total Carbohydrate 40g 13% Dietary Fiber 1g 4% Sugars 21g Protein 3g Ingredients: enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin b1), riboflavin (vitamin b2), folic acid), corn syrup, partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil with tbhq to preserve flavor*, sugar, dextrose, water, cocoa, walnuts, high fructose corn syrup, whey (milk), eggs, sey lecithin (emulsifier), corn starch, salt, leavening (sodium aluminum phosphate, baking soda), colors (caramel color, red 40), natural and artificial flavors, egg whites, citric acid, sorbic acid (to retain freshness), almonds. *contributes a trivial amount of trans fat. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it > crackers > What's interesting is trans fat 0 grams, then ". . .vegatable oil (canola, > cottonseed, palm, sunflower and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil with > tbhq for greshness) . . ." How can they use partially hydrogenated oil then > state 0 grams trans fat? This one's even more confusing. It costs less than ten cents per serving. Note that by weight, it's one sixth fat. When you make it, it's quite greasy, and it leaves plenty of fat in the bowl. But it feels dry, not fatty at all. Rubbing the noodle block against paper doesn't leave a grease streak. Yet there's no mention of mono- and di-glycerides or hydrogenation. What gives? Nissin 0g Trans Fat Top Ramen Oodles of Noodles Cooks in 3 minutes Chicken Flavor Ramen Noodle Soup Net Wt. 3 oz. (85g) Nutrition Facts Serving Size 1.5 oz (42g/about 1/2 dry noodle block and 1 tsp seasoning mix) Servings Per Container 2 Calories 190 Calories from Fat 60 Amount/Serving %DV* Total Fat 7g 11% Saturated Fat 3.5g 18% Trans Fat 0g Cholesterol 0mg 0% Sodium 910mg 38% Total Carbohydrate 26g 9% Dietary Fiber 2g 8% Sugars less than 1g Protein 5g Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0% Calcium 0% Iron 10% Ingredients: *Ramen noodles* - enriched flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), vegetable oil (contains one or more of the following: canola oil, cottonseed oil, palm oil) preserved by tocopherols and/or tbhq and/or ascorbyl palmitate, contains less than 2% of last, sodium tripolyphosphate, potassium carbonate, sodium carbonate, sodium alginate. *Seasoning mix* - salt, monosodium glutamate, hydrolyzed soy, corn and wheat protein, chicken powder, soy sauce powder (wheat, soybeans, maltodextrin, salt), onion powder, garlic powder, spices, chicken fat, calcium silicate (anticaking agent), celery powder, sugar, dehydrated leek, turmeric color, autolyzed yeast extract, citric acid, disodium guanylate, disodium inosinate, natural flavors, artificial flavors. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c >> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >> crackers [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > leek, turmeric color, autolyzed yeast extract, citric acid, disodium > guanylate, disodium inosinate, natural flavors, artificial flavors. I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. >>> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >>> crackers [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the > processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. Yum ... Saturated fat. On the other hand, I avoid noodles, partially hydrogenated fats, monosodium glutamate, "enriched flour", vegetable oils, soy, artificial flavors, and quite a few other things mentioned above. I'll take veggies, fruit, nuts, and 3-8 oz of something that had to be killed and if it's beef, I'll take it rare. SignaturePramesh Rutaji p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply >>> I'm reading the ingredients on a box of kellogg's reduced fat Cheez-it >>> crackers [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the > processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. I guess it's a "one or more of" problem. Assuming that they use pure palm oil, and that there's a fair amount of chicken fat in the seasoning mix, that could account for the 50% saturated fat content. Even so, I'm surprised that it's so well hidden. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > > I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the > > processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. > I guess it's a "one or more of" problem. Assuming that they use pure > palm oil, and that there's a fair amount of chicken fat in the seasoning > mix, that could account for the 50% saturated fat content. Even so, I'm > surprised that it's so well hidden. The palm oil is in the noodles. Saturated fat isn't oily like vegetable oils when combined with other foods so people more readily accept those French fries or cookies. IIRC, Paul Newman thinks that his cookies containing palm oil are healthy because the palm oil is "organic". -- Ron >>> I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the >>> processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > his cookies containing palm oil are healthy because the palm oil is > "organic". (I noticed that his salad dressings contain soy oil.) I wonder whether you could help me decide how worried I ought to be about trans fats. Do you have any good links? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c >>>> I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the >>>> processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I wonder whether you could help me decide how worried I ought to be > about trans fats. Do you have any good links? This web site is a good start. For each 2% of dietary calories that come from trans fats, cardiovascular risk doubles. That's only cardiovascular; incorporating trans-fatty acids into brain tissue sounds down right alarming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat SignaturePramesh Rutaji p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply >>>>> I believe that traditionally the noodles are deep fried as part of the >>>>> processing. Palm oil is high in saturated fat. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat (Actually, I'm looking for a better start.) I notice the link to Crisco fails, but the pages are still available on The Wayback Machine. Original Crisco had 1.5g of trans per Tbs and the "0g-trans" Crisco says 0g on the nutrition panel. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > > The palm oil is in the noodles. Saturated fat isn't oily like > > vegetable oils when combined with other foods so people more readily > > accept those French fries or cookies. IIRC, Paul Newman thinks that > > his cookies containing palm oil are healthy because the palm oil is > > "organic". > (I noticed that his salad dressings contain soy oil.) The soy oil is OK, but it is high in calories. > I wonder whether you could help me decide how worried I ought to be > about trans fats. Do you have any good links? http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/168 concludes that 1 g/ day of trans fats induces as much thickening to the artery walls as 10 g/day of saturated fat. Trans fats are metabolized by the body, so one can clear it from the body by cutting consumption of trans fats. -- Ron >>> The palm oil is in the noodles. Saturated fat isn't oily like >>> vegetable oils when combined with other foods so people more readily [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > The soy oil is OK, but it is high in calories. All oils are high in calories, but soy oil is high in scandals: The History of Soy Pioneers Around the World - Unpublished Manuscript http://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/archer_daniels_midland.php At Archer Daniels, a bitter taste lingers http://www.iht.com/articles/2002/03/23/march_ed3_.php Supermarket for Scandal http://www.upenn.edu/gazette/1100/1100books.html Books of the Times - A Crime Story of the White-Collar Kind http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E1D6153DF931A35753C1A9669C8B6 3&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print The Pet Food Scandal http://www.trustme.com/story.php?title=pet-food-scandal-Whodunnit-will-it-affect -humans-1 >> I wonder whether you could help me decide how worried I ought to be >> about trans fats. Do you have any good links? > > http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/168 concludes that 1 g/ > day of trans fats induces as much thickening to the artery walls as 10 > g/day of saturated fat. I saw that before, but it's just one study. What I'd really like is a big-picture overview of trans fats in general. > Trans fats are metabolized by the body, so one can clear it from the > body by cutting consumption of trans fats. I know, but just because we stop eating them doesn't mean we'll stop making them. How common are they in natural foods, and how important are they in fighting off fungal skin infections (if at all) and immune system defense reactions? I'm hoping for serious inflammation when and where inflammation is called for! SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > I saw that before, but it's just one study. What I'd really like is a > big-picture overview of trans fats in general. The books on the subject don't seem to cover the big picture adequately. > I know, but just because we stop eating them doesn't mean we'll stop > making them. How common are they in natural foods, and how important > are they in fighting off fungal skin infections (if at all) and immune > system defense reactions? I'm hoping for serious inflammation when and > where inflammation is called for! AFIK, the human body doesn't make trans fats. Ruminants has there trans fats from bacterial action in their rumen. Omega 6 fatty acids are important for skin health and inflammatory response. It's not quite clear how much omega 6 is too much and whether trans fats change that need. -- Ron >> I saw that before, but it's just one study. What I'd really like is a >> big-picture overview of trans fats in general. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > AFIK, the human body doesn't make trans fats. There are trans fatty acids in sebum, IIRC, and of course they're created, at least in passing, in the beta-oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids, such as linoleic acid. > Ruminants has there trans fats from bacterial action in their rumen. I didn't know that. Do they enter the circulation? > Omega 6 fatty acids are important for skin health and inflammatory > response. It's not quite clear how much omega 6 is too much and > whether trans fats change that need. Do you disagree with the notions that (1) a ratio of n-6 to n-3 fats of 20 or more is too high, and (2) that a ratio of about 3 is better? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > > Ruminants has there trans fats from bacterial action in their rumen. > I didn't know that. Do they enter the circulation? Sure, butterfat has those trans fats. The problem with ruminants is that the healthy fats (omega 6 and omega 3) get converted to saturated fats. > > Omega 6 fatty acids are important for skin health and inflammatory > > response. It's not quite clear how much omega 6 is too much and > > whether trans fats change that need. > Do you disagree with the notions that (1) a ratio of n-6 to n-3 fats of > 20 or more is too high, and (2) that a ratio of about 3 is better? I am not sure that looking at the ratio is the right approach since there is a need for the omega 3 fatty acids which is more important than the actual ratio. If one is taking 5 g/day of omega 3, a 20 to one ratio would up the fat intake to over 100 g/day which although in the realm of average fatty acid intake would be hard to do without taking in a similar amount of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids. -- Ron >> I saw that before, but it's just one study. What I'd really like is a >> big-picture overview of trans fats in general. > > The books on the subject don't seem to cover the big picture > adequately. What about a database of common fats in nutrition and the fatty acids they contain? Incidentally, I opened that can of coconut milk and drank the whole thing in one night. Not a good idea! I regretted it the following day. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > What about a database of common fats in nutrition and the fatty acids > they contain? They're good as far as they go. > Incidentally, I opened that can of coconut milk and drank the whole > thing in one night. Not a good idea! I regretted it the following day. Coconut macaroons seem to work for reestablishing normal bowel movements. Primate studies have shown that omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids are the only ones that don't induce atherosclerotic lesions. -- Ron >> What about a database of common fats in nutrition and the fatty acids >> they contain? > > They're good as far as they go. What I meant was to inquire whether you know of any free online databases like that, and to ask you to provide a link or two to them. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > What I meant was to inquire whether you know of any free online > databases like that, and to ask you to provide a link or two to them. http://www.nutritiondata.com/tools/nutrient-search looks pretty good because it can give nutrients for a fixed calorie portion. -- Ron >> What I meant was to inquire whether you know of any free online >> databases like that, and to ask you to provide a link or two to them. > > http://www.nutritiondata.com/tools/nutrient-search looks pretty good > because it can give nutrients for a fixed calorie portion. Brrrrrrilliant! But I suspect it's based on "Nutrition Facts" panels. When I looked for foods with maximum trans fatty acids and minimum total fat, all the listings contained integral values for trans fatty acids in grams. They say: "You'll find a line for "Total trans fats" near the bottom of the "Fats and Fatty Acids" table in the "Nutrients per Serving" section of our analysis. However, we don't yet have trans fat data for most foods in our system. Our data is provided by the USDA, restaurants, and food manufacturers, and they are just starting to measure this nutrient." It would be nice to get data from more scientific sources, and to be able to download the database, but thanks a lot for that link, Ron. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c |
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