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CNN: Man counted calories, watched the pounds go

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Sage - 19 Jul 2008 02:46 GMT
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/diet.fitness/07/18/weight.loss.sujit/index.html

Man counted calories, watched the pounds go
Story Highlights

* Sujit Bhattacharya, 39, lost 40 pounds in six months

* He ate 1,500 calories per day in the form of six small meals

* Dietitians say they would recommend his method, but check with doctor
first

* iReport.com: Share your weight-loss success story

By Elizabeth Landau
CNN
(CNN) -- Sujit Bhattacharya knew he felt sluggish and had trouble putting
on his socks and shoes. One day, when he tried on a pair of size 30 shorts,
his wife pointed out that they fit only under his belly.

Yet Bhattacharya, of Coppell, Texas, never paid attention to his weight
problem until his doctor told him he had high cholesterol in summer 2006.
His friends also told him that he had become heavy and needed to do
something about it.

The feedback was upsetting, he acknowledged, but the combination of his
friends' prodding and the cholesterol numbers motivated him to start
trimming down his 193-pound frame.

"I needed some tough love: things I didn't want to hear but needed to
hear," Bhattacharya said.

He researched how to lose weight extensively on the Internet, including
CNN.com's health section. He learned that 3,500 calories add up to one
pound of weight and tried to figure out how to eat to decrease his daily
caloric intake.

Instead of eating a few large meals every day, he ate six small meals,
keeping track of how many calories he consumed. He had been eating more
than 2,500 calories a day, perhaps 3,000, so he cut this down to 1,500
calories a day. That meant losing a pound every two or three days.

"As long as you know how many calories you need and how many calories you
eat, it's just math," he said.

He also included more fruits and vegetables in his diet and ate fewer fatty
meats. For exercise, he changed his routine from three days a week of
limited cardio and heavy weights to six days a week with the same heavy
weights but increased cardio.

In six months, he lost 40 pounds. Since then, he's put on about 5 pounds of
"good" or muscle weight but has otherwise sustained his new physique
through diet and exercise.

Today, at age 39, he said he's starting to look more like when he was in
high school.

Losing weight has improved Bhattacharya's overall frame of mind, he said.
He also noticed that he doesn't get colds or the flu and fights off
infections faster than before.

Sometimes Bhattacharya wonders why he didn't start losing weight earlier
and can say only that he felt "fat, dumb and happy."

"I didn't understand what I was doing was hurting me," he said.

He actively encourages friends to try his weight loss method. One friend
lost 20 pounds following his advice. See more photos of weight loss success
stories from iReport.com »

"What I tell friends is: You've got to have a burning platform, something
to make you start, a goal or desire," he said. "For me, it was the bad
cholesterol test and friends. Someone else may want to fit into a bikini in
the summer."

Dietitians say they would encourage others to follow Bhattacharya's example
of reducing calories and spreading them more throughout the day instead of
eating big meals.

If you try it, make sure you have enough energy, feel good while doing it
and eat foods you enjoy so you can stick to it long-term, said Dawn Jackson
Blatner, a registered dietitian and spokeswoman for the American Dietetic
Association.

In fact, Bhattacharya did twice as well as the average person in a weight
loss program, Blatner said. He lost 20 percent of his body weight in six
months, beating the national average of 10 percent.

Tara Gidus, ADA spokeswoman and team dietitian for the NBA's Orlando Magic,
recommends that women never eat fewer than 1,200 calories and men no fewer
than 1,500 calories per day.

She typically does not recommend cutting out 1,000 calories at a time, "but
if someone is really motivated to lose weight and they eat snacks that are
filling in between meals, then they can cut a significant number of
calories, lose weight and not feel overly hungry," she said.

Blatner said she would also encourage anyone who wants a drastic diet
change to consult a doctor.

Bhattacharya emphasizes that anyone can shed unwanted pounds as long as he
or she compares the number of calories needed to maintain weight and the
number of calories he or she eats.

"I firmly believe it is not hard to lose weight," he said.
Lady Veteran - 19 Jul 2008 04:05 GMT
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/diet.fitness/07/18/weight.loss.sujit/i...

Dizum posts sh.t and we can give it the attention it deserves:

<garbage tossed>

LV-posted in SSFA
The Oracle - 19 Jul 2008 04:50 GMT
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/diet.fitness/07/18/weight.loss.sujit/
> > i...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> LV-posted in SSFA

The Official Lady Veteran FAQ v1.17

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?
2. What does Lady Veteran look like?
3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?
4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered.  What say you?
5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?
6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?
7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?
8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?
9. What is Lady Veteran built like?
10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?
11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?
12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?
13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who disagree
with her?
14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster chihauhaus?
15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?
16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?
17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?
18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?
19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?
20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?
21. Lady Veteran is a net loon.  Is she also insane in real life?
22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?
23. Where does Lady Veteran work?
24.  Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?
25. Lady Veteran is barely literate.  Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?
26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?
27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she
brands those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards".  Is this
hypocritical?
28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?
29.  Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a
coherent sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The
Wordsmith"?
30. Is Lady Veteran a spammer?
31. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?
32. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?

Bobbi Sanchez

2. What does Lady Veteran look like?

http://fatreality.netfirms.com/blobbi.htm

3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?

Yes.

4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered.  What say you?

LV will claim that the picture was altered, but only the name tag was
added.  LV used to have the original picture posted on her personal web
site at http://profiles.yahoo.com/lady_veteran .  It was taken down
after a dentist was shocked by the color of her teeth (Message-ID:
<43ms20p62nc280ro3q88en4h3vugdafg3l@4ax.com> ).  LV subsequently
replaced the picture to avoid further embarrassment.

5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?

Yes.  Message-ID:
<38C814E536AE9844.15B8C70F1948AFC3.F2AA7341D7E8B721@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <fj14n210qe47ge5g69nm5poqvl5vqk0eqs@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

>It was she who disclosed that her car was repossessed because she did
not make the payments.

In a legal newsgroup seeking legal advise...you left out that part.

6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?

Yes.  Not only did she beg a priest for money to pay her rent
(Message-ID:
<33FBD47F044F1402.9414A74F8938BCC8.AA82604960F75E42@lp.airnews.net>#1/1)
, she also posted a message on NAAFA's web board and created a
Geocities web site for the sole purpose of begging for money for her
war on trolls.

7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?

Yes.  Message-ID:
<AFDA5075017A206D.9F8B3834FF2B162D.2BCF533C17527402@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?

5' 6 1/2", 240 pounds.

Message-ID: <em98lso2rg326hfelsrc10crvqjt1435dj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5utfctkamapne0sqh0v8c0gp3qhjon2i1g@4ax.com>

9. What is Lady Veteran built like?

Like a wrestler, according to LV herself.  

Message-ID: <ubfbqs4r0koopeg7fa86or27b9mpcmf2db@4ax.com>

10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?

Apart from her unfeminine looks and Usenet behavior, LV admits to
wearing men's pants ( Message-ID:
<0spvlskkdg305qpeibhltspl04qv12ipsu@4ax.com>#1/1).

11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?

Yes.  

alt.blobbi.veteran-c.nt
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka.aka.lady-veteran

12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?

Yes.  Note her personal profile posted at
http://www.bestjobsus.com/bt-empd-armyvet.htm .  This address is for
the Budget Suites of America.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: CNN: Tired of slights, embarrassment, man sheds 87 pounds
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:48:22 -0600
Message-ID: <l2okj39m70on27jn0nms22j8jb4hdd79ik@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diet,alt.sup
port.diet.low-carb

>You were homeless and using the cheap motel address to conduct
business.

Er, no. I was living in a one-bedroom suite owned by the hotel. Not
homeless, fuckwit. People who live in hotels live in a home of their
own making and you cannot change that.

<end quote>

13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who disagree
with her?

Yes.  As financially distressed as she is, LV paid a private
investigator $500 to track down a 20 year old Canadian named Marty who
was besting her with their every encounter.  LV later took things to
real life with Jim Dutton and contacted his employer.  LV's mission is
to take things to real life with anyone who disagrees with her,
assuming she can track the person down.

LV re-affirms that she will continue to stalk people who post from work
as she did with Jim Dutton.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi, Robin, others=read.
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:42:36 -0600
Message-ID: <5rq3m31c5dci477cf7r5idtfk209ho0p7o@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.fucknozzles,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,
alt.troll

>Let's get to the facts here.  You netKKKop Jeem for posting from work,
then
>your headers show you doing the same.  The postings that you made from
your
>workplace were forwarded to your employer, just like you did to Jeem.
Now
>you're whining that you are a victim of stalking?  ROTFLMAO!!!!

Yes I did. I will do it again and again and again to you or any other
f.ck that tries it. Want to dare me?

<end quote>

14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster chihauhaus?

Yes.  Message-ID: <0humj0d03gj1qr6karknuucc29ngtql9vg@4ax.com>

Barbara Richardson the so-called moderator of DFW Cares just denied me
for a member because she said I lied about not getting a home visit
from Chihuahua Rescue. I have been waiting for a home for going on two
years now so I can foster Chihuahuas. I am still waiting.

Apparently The moderator has her own notions about what is right and
wrong and doesn't bother to check facts!

<end quote>

15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?

Yes.  Message-ID: <010d01c265d6$9467ea00$18ea3040@MAIN>

16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?

Yes.  She suffers from lupus and boils.  LV probably has some
co-morbidities associated with obesity as well.

17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?

Speculation surrounds her lesbianism.

18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?

Yes.  Quoting from Message-ID:
<svebc0h9nbj6955bsurqic2bhck2e05t4i@4ax.com> :

The lower half of 1 black man is worth 10 complete white men. When
I f.ck I like MEN, not little sissyboys that have to talk from
behind their mommy's skirt.

I lova da bothas:-)

<end quote>

Quoting from Message-ID:
<news:32593110AEB31ACC.AE57CF2C8A1A20A9.F0DCF962F6552859@lp.airnews.net>

You talk about the Asian is very gifted. You should follow their
example by being polite,



AND QUIET!!!!!!!!!!

<end quote>

Quoting from Message-ID: <rdk191lcntvrmhi0nldfn6mfvi9170gogp@4ax.com>

>I live in Dublin and I'd agree with that study. Plenty of fatties
>waddling around here.

So are you sure you just aren't alcohol-challenged and are seeing
double. I thin you have pickled what passed for a brain in your empty
head-and your empty head is as empty as your shorts.

<end quote>

Quoting from Message-ID:  <polc61hsggatd6mo6rlfj29tbtib1uvv7e@4ax.com>

Unfortunately most of the idiots here happen to male Anglo-Saxon
idiots.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation for Bobbi
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 22:25:09 -0600
Message-ID: <89njp2h10bh09so5vtr175ad5lgd8mni2j@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

Yes 9 out 10 idiots are Caucasian males between 13 and 25. That is the
very group that will triple auto insurance rates for the rest of us
when they reach 16.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: How many of the readers her ...
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:24:44 -0600
Message-ID: <bg6rp2hcbb33h23s07cr7jttiltsrnrf22@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

They screwed it up anyway. I said that most if the idiots bothering me
are white Caucasians who are between 13 and 25.

I am willing to wager that males in that other age group belonging to
other racial families have better things to do.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Why Are American Women So Fat And Ugly?
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:58:48 -0500
Message-ID: <g787c3petbk44blv5dijcuqklcu323s5de@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.men,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.divorce,alt.support.marri
age,soc.culture.jewish

Awwww, you say that like it is a bad thing.  I bet you are jealous as
hell and are in some third world idiocracy calling the USA the great
Satan.

Your turban is WAAAAAY to tight.

LV

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat?
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 19:30:43 -0500
Message-ID: <a0ok1453k0deq6163ud2lme78ms6j10fj2@4ax.com>

There are many Aryan wannabes in SSFA.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: REPOST: When Trolls, Flame Wars and Cyber-Rage go too Far
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:54:28 -0500
Message-ID: <k55944122k6auiq80a5jfat0f0s1tl16um@4ax.com>

>Then why dd you write several posts speaking negatively about whites?
>You have yet to offer an explanation for yourself.

OH.....saying that most of the trolls here are white boys under 21?
You know why that people of color do not spend time poking sticks. In
some cases, it could purely financial-they may not have their own
computer. Another reason could be that their parents raised them
better. Yes that is anti parent-not anti whit you sh.t eating whore.

<end quote>

When pressed on how she could discern a person's race from their
writing style, Lady Veteran failed to respond.

Racist and sexist.  

19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?

Lady Veteran is on the record stating that Air Force pilots are
cowards.  Quoting from Message-ID:
<FD61BA67148006B8.0AC8A33AD0FC8798.555ED8B384D327D0@lp.airnews.net>

They are most definitely cowards if they can't call a person fat to
their face and reap the benefits their comments so richly deserve.
BTW, I don't find hotshot pilots so brave. They fly up above the war
and could care less where their bombs fall. If they cared, maybe there
would be less war.

<end quote>

20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?

Yes.  

Quoting from Message-ID: <qu0571l8r39c8m1ib7a46dv63cai7hig6n@4ax.com>

Well when you get to the sigmoidoscopy just tell him that he is going
where no man has gone before...LOL!!

The idiots on this group sure can't say that.

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Whoooeee! Lookit this porker.
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:19:32 -0500
Message-ID: <6l9r835f5emlt0htrij2nomrbn3jd6t9s0@4ax.com>

>Guys who say they like fat women are the ones who have never had a hot
>chick.  This is how they rationalize their lack of quality trim.

You couldn't keep up with a gay man on your best day bubba. Who the
hell are you kidding?

<end quote>

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Please limit comments ref LV
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:55:22 -0500
Message-ID: <ki34e318lnq0siri67k4ejo6907b8i2sq8@4ax.com>

Another delusional fool who thinks a pecker will solve everything.
Fuckfaces like you are the reason there are lesbians.

<end quote>

21. Lady Veteran is a net loon.  Is she also insane in real life?

Yes.  In Lady Veteran's own words:

From: bbi@airmail.net (Bobbi Sanchez)
Subject: Jacque champion's Best Friend
Date: 1998/11/09
Message-ID:
<AA5737F4407BF438.75053B83A5011CDC.5BC343E27A269025@library-proxy.airnew
s.net>#1/1
Newsgroups: dfw.flame

I am trying to locate a lady named Terri who used to be a friend of
Jacque champion (mainden name Krippen). Both were involved in the
psychic community and Jacque is an experienced Tarot reader. She has
told people that Terri is languishing in some mental asylum and has
probably killed herself. I need to compare notes with Terri because
Jacque is saying the same thing about me.

<end quote>

22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?

Yes.  Proof was posted in Message-ID:
<2H8XKYQV38075.0543865741@Gilgamesh-Frog.org>

23. Where does Lady Veteran work?

Lady Veteran is currently unemployed after being terminated, due to
either her Usenet postings or poor job performance, by the MMC Group.

MMC Group
105 Decker Court, Suite 150
Irving, Texas 75062

Phone: 972-893-0100
www.mmcgrp.com

24.  Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <fj14n210qe47ge5g69nm5poqvl5vqk0eqs@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

> It was she that disclosed the she was evicted from her dwelling
because she did not
>pay the rent.

No one else in the entire universe has ever been evicted due to job
layoff except fir me...

<end quote>

25. Lady Veteran is barely literate.  Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?

Yes.  Lady Veteran posted this advertisement on Usenet:

Wordsmith Services and Pricing
www.georicites.com/ladyveteran@sbcglobal.net

Resumes (1-2 pages)
$35.00
Resumes (additional pages - including addendums)
$10.00
Cover Letters
$10.00
Envelopes
$5.00
Mailing
ask for pricing
Dossiers
$25.00
Business Cards (50 cards)
$15.00
Brochures
$40.00
Websites (design only)
$100.00
Reports/Term Papers Composition
$50.00
Reports/Term Papers Typing only
$25.00
Research
$20.00 per hour
Personal letters composition
$25.00
Personal Letters typing only
$10.00
Bumper Stickers
$1.50

August Special!!! Get a free custom bumper sticker with each order.
Good
until august 31, 2004
Payment can be made by cash or credit card, no checks please
A 50%payment is due at beginning of assignment with balance due prior
to
delivery.

Thanks!
We look forward to working with you.
The Wordsmith at your service.
We look forward to hearing from you

<end quote>

Quoting Gumshoe McFindy :  "[note the creative spelling of geocities.
Typo's aren't usually a good sign in someone who fancies themself a
linguist...HTH]"

26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?

Yes.  At least she aspires to be one.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi Sanchez of esoftsolutions.com makes another death
threat.
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:03:20 -0600
Message-ID: <9mj1l3161tsq004l7r9tc9ieml7ntaaajt@4ax.com>

How many swastikas can I draw on your forehead before I run out of
ammo, sock puppet?

<end quote>

27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she
brands those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards".  Is this
hypocritical?

Yes, of course it is.  This is not the only area where she displays
blatant hypocrisy.  In the example below, Lady Veteran actually posted
from Google Groups and even that post did not show up there.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Whar's Ole Yellar?
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<b54e1411-4d10-470b-af41-db64614460cf@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
References: <9i4r749rmilp2ohglpdvb1kmd717hekk3q@4ax.com>
Lines: 9
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance
Organization: http://groups.google.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.25.55.102
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1216212203 30511 127.0.0.1 (16 Jul 2008
12:43:23 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:43:23 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=3D66.25.55.102;
posting-account=3DdrqrdQkAAADFgPDI_mkq1r35_j_zEdDx
User-Agent: G2/1.0

28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?

Lady Veteran's degree came from Academy International of Santa Barbara,
California.  This school has no website, no listed phone number, no
references from alumni, and above all, there is now a chiropractor's
office at  Academy International's last known address.

29.  Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a
coherent sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The
Wordsmith"?

She has made various excuses, "dyslexia" being the latest.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: po'folks loans?
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:19:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1crs54llar832ipqtsddvlptru9l6vtadb@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,dfw.general,aust
in.general

>She writes at about the the level of a 4th grade student.
>
>Jan

I do not need to justify anything to you, skanky, but since you asked
so nicely...I have a form of dyslexia.

<end quote>

30. Is Lady Veteran a spammer?

Yes.   Lady Veteran's mass, unsolicited email was a topic of
conversation on an online bulletin board:

From http://clue.denver.co.us/pipermail/clue-talk/2008-July/009212.html

[clue-talk] Fw: Bobbi Sanchez wants to add you as a friend
David Rudder david.rudder at reliableresponse.net
Wed Jul 9 16:13:12 MDT 2008

Previous message: [clue-talk] Fw: Bobbi Sanchez wants to add you as a
friend
Next message: [clue-talk] Fw: Bobbi Sanchez wants to add you as a
friend
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
-----

I got an invite from Bobbi today, too.  I think your timing was
coincidence.  I've been a member of the group for years.

Grouply apparently makes it easy to "invite" a whole yahoo group.  When
I went to check it out, I got some pages which would allow me to spam
all my Yahoo groups.  I turned it down, obviously, but it seems an
awful
temptation.  Perhaps we could complain to Yahoo before moving everyone
off?  Yahoo can always just ban Grouply's API key.

-Dave

David L. Willson wrote:
> I think it may be time to move CLUE-jobs off from Yahoo\!.  I got
> Grouply-spammed by
> gr8t_recruiter at yahoo.com as soon as I joined the group so I could
post
> my opening.  See
> below:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> We share the CLUEJOBS group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply
so
> you can
> see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group
messages.

> Here is the link:
> http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=172098&amp;vt=1243446 
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ====================
> This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who uses
Grouply instead
> of email to access your shared group. Grouply blocks additional
> invitations like
> this from being sent to you by anyone for 30 days.
> ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>
> -- David

31. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?

Yes.  Lady Veteran swept several awards in April, 2008.  

KOOK OF THE MONTH
CLUELESS NEWBIE OF THE MONTH
COWARD OF THE MONTH

Lady Veteran also swept all six kook awards that she was nominated for
in May, 2008.

Congratulations, Lady Veteran!

32. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

Home phone: 972-447-2109
Work phone:  unemployed
Mobile number: 972-786-6275
Personal email: armyvet@bigfoot.com or gr8t_recruiter@yahoo.com or
imagoodrecruiter@gmail.com
Work email:  unemployed
Employer:   unemployed
Employer website:   unemployed

--
Lady Veteran - 21 Jul 2008 14:15 GMT
Here is the long-awaited response to the so-called FAQ by the DIZUM
Stalker.

The Official Lady Veteran FAQ v1.16

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?
2. What does Lady Veteran look like?
3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?
4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered.  What say you?
5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?
6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?
7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?
8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?
9. What is Lady Veteran built like?
10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?
11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?
12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?
13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who
disagree with her?
14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster Chihuahuas?
15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?
16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?
17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?
18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?
19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?
20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?
21. Lady Veteran is a net loon.  Is she also insane in real life?
22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?
23. Where does Lady Veteran work?
24.  Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?
25. Lady Veteran is barely literate.  Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?
26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?
27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she
brands those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards".  Is this
hypocritical?
28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?
29.  Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a
coherent sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The
Wordsmith"?
30. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?
31. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

1. What is Lady Veteran's real name?

Bobbi Sanchez
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The idiots love to call me "blobbie" in order to dehumanize. They will
have to try a lot harder than that.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2. What does Lady Veteran look like?

http://fatreality.netfirms.com/blobbi.htm
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
An idiot and her money are soon parted. Did you know that some brain
stem is actually paying to have this altered picture on a site to
vilify me? I am so HONORED!
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

3. Are Lady Veteran's teeth really that brown?

Yes.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
No. The picture has been altered and I will be happy to send the real
picture to anyone who asks. No one has asked because they would rather
believe the lie. It is much more exciting
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4. Lady Veteran will claim that picture was altered.  What say you?

LV will claim that the picture was altered, but only the name tag was
added.  LV used to have the original picture posted on her personal
web site at http://profiles.yahoo.com/lady_veteran.  It was taken down
after a dentist was shocked by the color of her teeth (Message-ID:
<43ms20p62nc280ro3q88en4h3vugdafg3l@4ax.com>).  LV subsequently
replaced the picture to avoid further embarrassment.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
See above.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

5. Did Lady Veteran have her car repossessed?

Yes.  Message-ID:
<38C814E536AE9844.15B8C70F1948AFC3.F2AA7341D7E8B721@lp.airnews.net>#1/1

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <fj14n210qe47ge5g69nm5poqvl5vqk0eqs@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

>It was she who disclosed that her car was repossessed because she did not make the payments.

In a legal newsgroup seeking legal advise...you left out that part.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Now if you were reading you would think in the near recent past-right?
It actually happened in 1999. A lot has past since them. The idiots
like to make me look like an accomplished n'er do well who will not
pay her bills.

6. Is Lady Veteran really a serial beggar?

Yes.  Not only did she beg a priest for money to pay her rent
(Message-ID:
<33FBD47F044F1402.9414A74F8938BCC8.AA82604960F75E42@lp.airnews.net>#1/1)
she also posted a message on NAAFA's web board and created a Geocities
web site for the sole purpose of begging for money for her war on
trolls.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Again this happened in early 2000. Anyone can lose their job. Not that
it should matter to the sociopaths of SSFA, but I am a technical
recruiter. In early 2000, I could not get a job in my field and my
savings was evaporating very fast. Anybody can have financial hardship
but it is a crime when I have problems. Somehow I am some sort of
dregs or something or another. The site I put up in Geocities was done
during this time frame as well. I was trying to raise money to hire a
CANADIAN lawyer to bring MARTY (poor Canada-they don't want him
either.) up on charges. The reasons will become clear later.

7. Does Lady Veteran use pay day loans?

Yes.  Message-ID:
<AFDA5075017A206D.9F8B3834FF2B162D.2BCF533C17527402@lp.airnews.net>#1/1
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
See above. I make no apologies for being out of work wwhen three
quarters of my colleagues were pounding the payment with me.

8. What is Lady Veteran's height and weight?

5' 6 1/2", 240 pounds.

Message-ID: <em98lso2rg326hfelsrc10crvqjt1435dj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5utfctkamapne0sqh0v8c0gp3qhjon2i1g@4ax.com>
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I make no apologies for my height and weight. This also was a very old
post, circa 2000
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

9. What is Lady Veteran built like?

Like a wrestler, according to LV herself.  

Message-ID: <ubfbqs4r0koopeg7fa86or27b9mpcmf2db@4ax.com>

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have very dense body tissue. I am what Eastern Europeans call good
sturdy peasant stock.

10. Is Lady Veteran a lesbian?

Apart from her unfeminine looks and Usenet behavior, LV admits to
wearing men's pants ( Message-ID:
<0spvlskkdg305qpeibhltspl04qv12ipsu@4ax.com>#1/1).

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So wearing men's pants makes one a lesbian? That is NEW to me.

11. Does Lady Veteran have her own newsgroups?

Yes.  

alt.blobbi.veteran-c.nt
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka
alt.fan.boar-semen.blobbi-sanchez.aka.aka.lady-veteran

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is the "brain-child" of two idiots name Jim (pig-f.cker) Dutton
and Michael Cranston, former shyster lawyer. They should seriously
consider removing them or there is a good change I will own every
possession these two pieces of garbage own.

12. Did Lady Veteran really live in a cheap, extended stay motel?

Yes.  Note her personal profile posted at
http://www.bestjobsus.com/bt-empd-armyvet.htm .  This address is for
the Budget Suites of America.  

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: CNN: Tired of slights, embarrassment, man sheds 87 pounds
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:48:22 -0600
Message-ID: <l2okj39m70on27jn0nms22j8jb4hdd79ik@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diet,alt.suppor
t.diet.low-carb

>You were homeless and using the cheap motel address to conduct business.

Er, no. I was living in a one-bedroom suite owned by the hotel. Not
homeless, fuckwit. People who live in hotels live in a home of their
own making and you cannot change that.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Why can't a single woman live in an extended stay hotel? It was a nice
place and I had maid service. Had a chance to save money and start a
business that idiots promptly sabotaged. Yes these idiots owe me a
great deal.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

13. Does Lady Veteran take things to real life with people who
disagree with her?

Yes.  As financially distressed as she is, LV paid a private
investigator $500 to track down a 20 year old Canadian named Marty who
was besting her with their every encounter.  LV later took things to
real life with Jim Dutton and contacted his employer.  LV's mission is
to take things to real life with anyone who disagrees with her,
assuming she can track the person down.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Pigfucker Dutton wrote bestiality pornography from his work issued
computer in his work-issued office on his work-issued job.  You will
see some of that later.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

LV re-affirms that she will continue to stalk people who post from
work as she did with Jim Dutton.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi, Robin, others=read.
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:42:36 -0600
Message-ID: <5rq3m31c5dci477cf7r5idtfk209ho0p7o@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.fucknozzles,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,alt
troll

>Let's get to the facts here.  You netKKKop Jeem for posting from work, then your headers show you doing the same.  The postings that you made from your workplace were forwarded to your employer, just like you did to Jeem.  Now you're whining that you are a victim of stalking?  ROTFLMAO!!!!

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I turned Dutton in because of his bestiality porn written about me.
There is a difference.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes I did. I will do it again and again and again to you or any other
f.ck that tries it. Want to dare me?

<end quote>

14. Was Lady Veteran turned down to foster Chihuahuas? (Spelling
corrected)

Yes.  Message-ID: <0humj0d03gj1qr6karknuucc29ngtql9vg@4ax.com>

Barbara Richardson the so-called moderator of DFW Cares just denied me
for a member because she said I lied about not getting a home visit
from Chihuahua Rescue. I have been waiting for a home for going on two
years now so I can foster Chihuahuas. I am still waiting.

Apparently The moderator has her own notions about what is right and
wrong and doesn't bother to check facts!

<end quote>

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx
Rescuers will not place dogs in a home where there is an unspayed
female. That is why my home is unsuitable. I was caring for a little
Shih-Tzu for a friend in a nursing home and she did not want her dog
spayed. That is why this happened.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

15. Is Lady Veteran so broke that she could not fix her computer for
over 3 months when it crashed?

Yes.  Message-ID: <010d01c265d6$9467ea00$18ea3040@MAIN>
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The computer needed to be replaced. Why is that a crime when it
happens to me?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

16. Is Lady Veteran really diseased?

Yes.  She suffers from lupus and boils.  LV probably has some
co-morbidities associated with obesity as well.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Let's see, I haven't had a boil for a long time. Idiots apparently
have nothing better to do than follow me around….?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

17. Why was Lady Veteran kicked out of the Army?

Speculation surrounds her lesbianism.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That is an outright lie. Anyone saying that in a public forum will be
liable for defamation of character. End of subject.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

18. Is Lady Veteran a racist?

Yes.  Quoting from Message-ID:
<svebc0h9nbj6955bsurqic2bhck2e05t4i@4ax.com>

The lower half of 1 black man is worth 10 complete white men. When I
f.ck I like MEN, not little sissyboys that have to talk from behind
their mommy's skirt.

I lova da bothas:-)

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This was in response to a troll named Leroy. The inference was that I
could only get black men to be interested in me and that somehow is a
bad thing. My response was not the best it could have been but it got
the point across: If black men was all I could get, then HALF of a
BLACK man was beter then a whole white idiot. I had a hunch that
"LeRoy" was as black as what the KKK would allow. I was proven right
when the idiots hollered "racism!" Anyone notice that I never
referenced the word "white" n that post? I referred to "sissboys."
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quoting from Message-ID:
<news:32593110AEB31ACC.AE57CF2C8A1A20A9.F0DCF962F6552859@lp.airnews.net>

You talk about the Asian is very gifted. You should follow their
example by being polite,
 AND QUIET!!!!!!!!!!

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This was, again a "white" idiot pretending to be Asian. Suspecting
this, I succeeded in insulting the white idiot-not for being whit, but
for being an idiot.

Quoting from Message-ID: <rdk191lcntvrmhi0nldfn6mfvi9170gogp@4ax.com>

>I live in Dublin and I'd agree with that study. Plenty of fatties waddling around here.

So are you sure you just aren't alcohol-challenged and are seeing
double. I thin you have pickled what passed for a brain in your empty
head-and your empty head is as empty as your shorts.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ok so now the Irish are a RACE? To this idiot I guess the Jews and the
Germans are RACES also? I had a hunch that this bozo was a s Irish as
me (I am one-quarter Irish) and deserved what I gave him I make no
apologies for this statement at all.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quoting from Message-ID:  <polc61hsggatd6mo6rlfj29tbtib1uvv7e@4ax.com>

Unfortunately most of the idiots here happen to male Anglo-Saxon
idiots.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The posts here seem to bear that out. I have a hunch that people of
color have nor constructive things to do (that is a compliment n ot a
dig)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation for Bobbi
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 22:25:09 -0600
Message-ID: <89njp2h10bh09so5vtr175ad5lgd8mni2j@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

Yes 9 out 10 idiots are Caucasian males between 13 and 25. That is the
very group that will triple auto insurance rates for the rest of us
when they reach 16.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Again a hunch that has been borne out. I also said they tended to be
teenage boys.

You know-SKINHEADS!!!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: How many of the readers her ...
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:24:44 -0600
Message-ID: <bg6rp2hcbb33h23s07cr7jttiltsrnrf22@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

They screwed it up anyway. I said that most if the idiots bothering me
are white Caucasians who are between 13 and 25.

I am willing to wager that males in that other age group belonging to
other racial families have better things to do.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
See above. When they let peole of color into the skin heads then I
will change my attitude. No one has proven me wrong.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Why Are American Women So Fat And Ugly?
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:58:48 -0500
Message-ID: <g787c3petbk44blv5dijcuqklcu323s5de@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.men,soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.divorce,alt.support.marriage
,soc.culture.jewish

Awwww, you say that like it is a bad thing.  I bet you are jealous as
hell and are in some third world idiocracy calling the USA the great
Satan.

Your turban is WAAAAAY to tight.

LV

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Again another write teenager. A real Arabic person would not be in
SSFA showing his stupidity. See: Osama bin Ladin. He is a bastard and
a monster, but he is intelligent-something these brain stems are not.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat?
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 19:30:43 -0500
Message-ID: <a0ok1453k0deq6163ud2lme78ms6j10fj2@4ax.com>

There are many Aryan wannabes in SSFA.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I stand by that one and there is not doubt in my mind…do you say "8-8"
a lot?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: REPOST: When Trolls, Flame Wars and Cyber-Rage go too Far
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:54:28 -0500
Message-ID: <k55944122k6auiq80a5jfat0f0s1tl16um@4ax.com>

>Then why dd you write several posts speaking negatively about whites? You have yet to offer an explanation for yourself.

OH.....saying that most of the trolls here are white boys under 21?
You know why that people of color do not spend time poking sticks. In
some cases, it could purely financial-they may not have their own
computer. Another reason could be that their parents raised them
better. Yes that is anti parent-not anti whit you sh.t eating whore.
<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Supposition is not racism. I stand by that one too.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When pressed on how she could discern a person's race from their
writing style, Lady Veteran failed to respond.

Racist and sexist.  

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
No apologies, brain stem. Your attitude is your problem not mine. I
will change my tune with people of color are allowed to become
Skinheads.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

19. What does Lady Veteran think of Air Force pilots?

Lady Veteran is on the record stating that Air Force pilots are
cowards.

Quoting from Message-ID:
<FD61BA67148006B8.0AC8A33AD0FC8798.555ED8B384D327D0@lp.airnews.net>

They are most definitely cowards if they can't call a person fat to
their face and reap the benefits their comments so richly deserve.
BTW, I don't find hotshot pilots so brave. They fly up above the war
and could care less where their bombs fall. If they cared, maybe there
would be less war.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

HOT SHOT PILOTS get people killed. No apologies here either. Good
pilots and missions are lost because of hotshots.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

20. Is Lady Veteran, despite being a lesbian, homophobic?

Yes.  

Quoting from Message-ID: <qu0571l8r39c8m1ib7a46dv63cai7hig6n@4ax.com>

Well when you get to the sigmoidoscopy just tell him that he is going
where no man has gone before...LOL!!

The idiots on this group sure can't say that.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Calling me a lesbian is defamation of character. It is not true. The
idiots on SSFA can't do a colonoscopy anyway-their head is in the way.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Whoooeee! Lookit this porker.
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:19:32 -0500
Message-ID: <6l9r835f5emlt0htrij2nomrbn3jd6t9s0@4ax.com>

>Guys who say they like fat women are the ones who have never had a hot chick.  This is how they rationalize their lack of quality trim.

You couldn't keep up with a gay man on your best day bubba. Who the
hell are you kidding?

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I asked an honest question and got no reply.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Please limit comments ref LV
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:55:22 -0500
Message-ID: <ki34e318lnq0siri67k4ejo6907b8i2sq8@4ax.com>

Another delusional fool who thinks a pecker will solve everything.
Fuckfaces like you are the reason there are lesbians.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I stand by that one too.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

21. Lady Veteran is a net loon.  Is she also insane in real life?

Yes.  In Lady Veteran's own words:

From: bbi@airmail.net (Bobbi Sanchez)
Subject: Jacque champion's Best Friend
Date: 1998/11/09
Message-ID:
<AA5737F4407BF438.75053B83A5011CDC.5BC343E27A269025@library-proxy.airnews.n
et>#1/1
Newsgroups: dfw.flame

I am trying to locate a lady named Terri who used to be a friend of
Jacque champion (mainden name Krippen). Both were involved in the
psychic community and Jacque is an experienced Tarot reader. She has
told people that Terri is languishing in some mental asylum and has
probably killed herself. I need to compare notes with Terri because
Jacque is saying the same thing about me.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Trying to stop a rumor monger is not insanity. Right Jape? All they
way back to 1989?
You must LOVE ME!!!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxx

22. Was Lady Veteran forging Jean C?

Yes.  Proof was posted in Message-ID:
<2H8XKYQV38075.0543865741@Gilgamesh-Frog.org>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have never used an anonymous remailer. Not even once. I stand by
what I say and do, unlike the author of this FAQ.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

23. Where does Lady Veteran work?

Lady Veteran is currently unemployed after being terminated, due to
either her Usenet postings or poor job performance, by the MMC Group.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lady Veteran is unemployed because of the work of all of you gossip
mongers and innuendo slinger. You have really done a great job of
shooting fish on a barrel. Aren't you proud of yourselves?  You have
now become official stalkers. Congrats!

MMC Group
105 Decker Court, Suite 150
Irving, Texas 75062

Phone: 972-893-0100
www.mmcgrp.com

24.  Was Lady Veteran evicted from her apartment?

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: A question
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:19:38 -0600
Message-ID: <fj14n210qe47ge5g69nm5poqvl5vqk0eqs@4ax.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance

> It was she that disclosed the she was evicted from her dwelling because  she did not pay the rent.

No one else in the entire universe has ever been evicted due to job
layoff except fir me...

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This never happens in idiot world. It happened to me in 2001. I am
human. Bite me.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

25. Lady Veteran is barely literate.  Was she trying to sell writing
services under the alias of 'Wordsmith'?

Yes.  Lady Veteran posted this advertisement on Usenet:

Wordsmith Services and Pricing
www.georicites.com/ladyveteran@sbcglobal.net

Resumes (1-2 pages)  $35.00
Resumes (additional pages - including addendums) $10.00
Cover Letters $10.00
Envelopes $5.00
Mailing ask for pricing
Dossiers$25.00
Business Cards (50 cards) $15.00
Brochures $40.00
Websites (design only) $100.00
Reports/Term Papers Composition $50.00
Reports/Term Papers Typing only $25.00
Research  $20.00 per hour
Personal letters composition $25.00
Personal Letters typing only $10.00
Bumper Stickers $1.50

August Special!!! Get a free custom bumper sticker with each order.
Good  until august 31, 2004
Payment can be made by cash or credit card, no checks please  A
50%payment is due at beginning of assignment with balance due prior to
delivery.

Thanks!
We look forward to working with you.
The Wordsmith at your service.
We look forward to hearing from you

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thank you for reaching out and sabotaging my real life. Another case
of stalking
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quoting Gumshoe McFindy :  "[note the creative spelling of geocities.
Typo's aren't usually a good sign in someone who fancies themself a
linguist...HTH]"
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
anti-Social behavior is not a good sign in someone who fancies himself
a human being.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
26. Is Lady Veteran a neo Nazi?

Yes.  At least she aspires to be one.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Bobbi Sanchez of esoftsolutions.com makes another death
threat.
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:03:20 -0600
Message-ID: <9mj1l3161tsq004l7r9tc9ieml7ntaaajt@4ax.com>

How many swastikas can I draw on your forehead before I run out of
ammo, sock puppet?

<end quote>

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hell, swastikas are easy to shot. I could have asked him how many
pictures of Mona Lisa could I draw on his stomach before I ran out of
ammo? To Indians, swastikas are symbols of good fortune. He should
have been honored (heh)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

27. Lady Veteran contacted Google not to archive her posts, yet she
brands
those who use "no archive" headers as "cowards".  Is this
hypocritical?

Yes, of course it is.  This is not the only area where she displays
blatant hypocrisy.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have NEVER one asked Google not to archive my postings. If things
were removed or not posted, it was the news server and not Google that
is responsibly.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

28. Did Lady Veteran receive her degree from a "diploma mill"?

Lady Veteran's degree came from Academy International of Santa
Barbara, California.  This school has no website, no listed phone
number, no references from alumni, and above all, there is now a
chiropractor's office at  Academy International's last known address.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
How many small colleges are in business after 25 years? Again this is
defamation of character. My degree has withstood ALL verification of
education done in the past 25 years. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Not having a current website dies not qualify.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

29.  Why does Lady Veteran have such a difficult time composing a
coherent sentence, especially since she runs a business called "The
Wordsmith"?

She has made various excuses, "dyslexia" being the latest.

From: Lady Veteran <armyvet@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: po'folks loans?
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:19:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1crs54llar832ipqtsddvlptru9l6vtadb@4ax.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,soc.singles,alt.usenet.kooks,dfw.general,austin.
general

>She writes at about the the level of a 4th grade student.
>
>Jan

I do not need to justify anything to you, skanky, but since you asked
so nicely...I have a form of dyslexia.

<end quote>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
And so I did. Also, I don't speak "idiot."
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

30. Has Lady Veteran won Usenet's coveted 'Kook of the Month' award?

Yes.  Lady Veteran swept several awards in April, 2008.

KOOK OF THE MONTH
CLUELESS NEWBIE OF THE MONTH
COWARD OF THE MONTH

Congratulations, Lady Veteran!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is the direct responsibility of the poster called JADE. She will
be heald accountablet and she has been advised several times to get a
lawyer.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

31. How can I get in contact with Lady Veteran?

Home phone: xxxxxxxxxx
Work phone:  unemployed
Mobile number: xxxxxxxxxx
Personal email: armyvet@bigfoot.com or gr8t_recruiter@yahoo.com or
imagoodrecruiter@gmail.com
Work email:  unemployed
Employer:   unemployed
Employer website:   unemployed

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My thanks to all the brain stems that were instrumental in making that
happen. I can say with all honesty and sincerity that you will get
yours and not at my hand. However if I get the urge to smile broadly I
will know that one or more of you has been cursed in some way.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

LV-Posted to SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Pooma - 20 Jul 2008 04:23 GMT
>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/diet.fitness/07/18/weight.loss.sujit/i...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> LV-posted in SSFA
f.ck YOU WHORE
┏┫  | |   ┣|   ┣┫
┗┫━━ ┃ ━━ ┣┛  ┣┫
 ┃ ━━━━━  ┃ ┏┳┫┣┳┓ 
 ┗━━┳━┳━━┛┃     ┃ 
━━━━┃ ┃    ┗━┳┳━┛
━━━━┃ ┗━━━━━━┛┃
BLOBBI
SANCHEZ SWALLOWS
Mxsmanic - 19 Jul 2008 05:26 GMT
Whenever you create a calorie deficit, you lose weight.  So what's the
surprise here?
Lady Veteran - 21 Jul 2008 14:15 GMT
>Whenever you create a calorie deficit, you lose weight.  So what's the
>surprise here?

Whenever a brain posts it is in a group that is not interested-why is
that?

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Seth - 21 Jul 2008 19:49 GMT
>* Sujit Bhattacharya, 39, lost 40 pounds in six months
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Remember those numbers for later.

> He had been eating more
>than 2,500 calories a day, perhaps 3,000, so he cut this down to 1,500
>calories a day. That meant losing a pound every two or three days.
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Compare with the above.

>"As long as you know how many calories you need and how many calories you
>eat, it's just math," he said.

Um, yeah, or something.

Seth
Signature

Wow! This math stuff works.  -- Tom Morley

The Master - 21 Jul 2008 20:13 GMT
>> * Sujit Bhattacharya, 39, lost 40 pounds in six months
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Compare with the above.

Well, let's see...

40 pounds, at 1 pound every 2.5 days, would take 100 days.
6 months, at 30 days per month, is 180 days.

Looks like a reporter failed basic math.

He was losing 1 pound every 4.5 days.

Good catch.
Kaz Kylheku - 21 Jul 2008 21:13 GMT
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.support.diet.low-carb.]

>>> * Sujit Bhattacharya, 39, lost 40 pounds in six months
>>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Looks like a reporter failed basic math.

No, looks like you're failing reading comprehension.

The reporter is simply reporting Sujit's reasoning.

It's Sujit's reasoning about energy balance which is naive.

> He was losing 1 pound every 4.5 days.

And that is with added exercise, too.  

The reason is that the metabolism compensates for changes in intake by
adjusting expenditure. Consequently weight can be maintained on a range of
caloric intake.

If you're maintaining at 3000 calories per day, and then drop the intake to
1500, this doesn't naively translate to a 1500 calorie deficit, because your
caloric expenditure will change in response to the intake drop. And the
metabolism demonstrates both short-term and long-term adaptations.

Also, a given fat loss rate cannot be sustained all the way until you have no
fat left, otherwise every successful dieter could get completely ``shredded''
just by continuing with the same program for a while longer.

If you have a large amount of body fat, then a deficit of X calories quite
neatly translates to the corresponding amount of fat lost, even when X is quite
a large daily figure.  Not so for the lean individual. The lean individual who
wants to get leaner faces an increasingly slow fat loss rate.  The only way to
accelerate it is drugs, intense exercise or surgical intervention. A naive
increase in the caloric deficit will simply cause wasting of lean mass.
Mxsmanic - 22 Jul 2008 04:09 GMT
> The reason is that the metabolism compensates for changes in intake by
> adjusting expenditure. Consequently weight can be maintained on a range of
> caloric intake.

The range is extremely small, and metabolic changes are also insigificantly
small except in extreme cases such as starvation.

> If you're maintaining at 3000 calories per day, and then drop the intake to
> 1500, this doesn't naively translate to a 1500 calorie deficit, because your
> caloric expenditure will change in response to the intake drop. And the
> metabolism demonstrates both short-term and long-term adaptations.

So it might be 1400 or 1600.  Still, as I've said, the difference is very
small.

> Also, a given fat loss rate cannot be sustained all the way until you have no
> fat left, otherwise every successful dieter could get completely ``shredded''
> just by continuing with the same program for a while longer.

Every dieter can.  People in places where there is very little food manage it
all the time.

> If you have a large amount of body fat, then a deficit of X calories quite
> neatly translates to the corresponding amount of fat lost, even when X is quite
> a large daily figure.  Not so for the lean individual. The lean individual who
> wants to get leaner faces an increasingly slow fat loss rate.  The only way to
> accelerate it is drugs, intense exercise or surgical intervention. A naive
> increase in the caloric deficit will simply cause wasting of lean mass.

If you have no fat, you should take care not to maintain a deficit in calorie
intake.  But that's not a problem for fat people.
Kaz Kylheku - 22 Jul 2008 22:46 GMT
>> The reason is that the metabolism compensates for changes in intake by
>> adjusting expenditure. Consequently weight can be maintained on a range of
>> caloric intake.
>
> The range is extremely small, and metabolic changes are also insigificantly
> small except in extreme cases such as starvation.

I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in energy
expenditure are not small.

Like I said before, cite something or go away.

>> If you're maintaining at 3000 calories per day, and then drop the intake to
>> 1500, this doesn't naively translate to a 1500 calorie deficit, because your
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Every dieter can.

``Can'' is quite a different word from ``does''.

Please look up the paper entitled ``A limit on the energy transfer rate from
the human fat store in hypophagia''.

In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can yield about
32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the amount of fat you can lose
by creating a deficit. It is hypothesized that fat mobilization may be
increased by intense exercise or drugs.

So if you have 10 pounds of body fat, about 320 kcal is your maximum deficit
for losing only fat. At that rate it takes 11 days to lose a pound.

From the paper's results, we can extrapolate a half life for the fat store of
86 days.  (I had to apply, like, logarithms and stuff to figure this out, way
over your head).

In other words, fat loss follows an inverse exponential curve, and it takes at
least twelve weeks to cut your body fat in half, whether you have a little of
it or a lot.  The less you have, the longer it takes to lose more.

> People in places where there is very little food manage it
> all the time.

That is false; people who starve severely usually become ``skinny fat''. Small
circumferences of torso and limbs, but not much muscle definition.

> If you have no fat, you should take care not to maintain a deficit in calorie
> intake.

That should read: ``If you have very low body fat ...''.

If you have /no/ fat, you're either an impossible human being or a dead one.
Mxsmanic - 23 Jul 2008 04:09 GMT
> I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in energy
> expenditure are not small.

The notion of dramatic changes in metabolism is routinely used by fat people
to explain why they "cannot" lose weight.  The reality is that you will always
lose weight if you eat less than you burn, and your metabolism changes very
little in the process.  The laws of thermodynamics cannot be set aside, and
you need a certain amount of energy for certain things; if you don't consume
enough to provide the energy, you burn fat to make up the difference.  There
are no exceptions, period.

> Like I said before, cite something or go away.

No.  The truth hurts, but you can't lose weight unless you accept the truth.

> ``Can'' is quite a different word from ``does''.

Yes.  Everyone can, but many obese people do not.

> In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can yield about
> 32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the amount of fat you can lose
> by creating a deficit.

A pound of body fat represents about 3500 kcal, not 32.

> It is hypothesized that fat mobilization may be increased by intense
> exercise or drugs.

Hypothesis = speculation

> So if you have 10 pounds of body fat, about 320 kcal is your maximum deficit
> for losing only fat. At that rate it takes 11 days to lose a pound.

No.  You can lose it as soon as you burn it, practically.  If you exercise and
burn 5500 kcal per day, and you consume only 2000, you'll lose a pound of fat
per day.

The deficit has to come from somewhere, and if it doesn't come from fat, it
has to come from destruction of lean body mass, glycogen, etc.  There isn't
enough of these to fill the deficit for more than a short period, so
ultimately you have to burn fat, or you die.  Rest assured, your body will
very willingly burn fat to find those extra calories needed.  There are no
exceptions to this rule.

If things were really as some people claim, people in Third World countries
during famines would die fat.  But they don't.  They are always skin and bones
when they die.  If they have fat, they stay alive.

> That is false; people who starve severely usually become ``skinny fat''. Small
> circumferences of torso and limbs, but not much muscle definition.

People who starve become "fat free," with essentially no significant fat
anywhere.
Lady Veteran - 23 Jul 2008 17:02 GMT
>> I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in energy
>> expenditure are not small.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>No.  The truth hurts, but you can't lose weight unless you accept the truth.

What truth? The truth that trolls are perpetual pests that have so
much time on their hands that they have to poke sticks at fat people.
The people in SSFA do not talk about diets becuase that is secondary
to LIVING. You and your fellow pests seem to think that a fat person
who is not obsessing about their weight is somehow deficient.

Why can't you let people be??

>> ``Can'' is quite a different word from ``does''.
>
>Yes.  Everyone can, but many obese people do not.

So are you so wealthy that you cannot think of anything else but why
fat people don't obsess over weight loss?

>> In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can yield about
>> 32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the amount of fat you can lose
>> by creating a deficit.
>
>A pound of body fat represents about 3500 kcal, not 32.

It takes the use of 3500 calories to make up a pound of fat. More to
hug, I think :-)

>> It is hypothesized that fat mobilization may be increased by intense
>> exercise or drugs.
>
>Hypothesis = speculation

On your side as well. why is it so important that you be right and
deliberately post off topic in SSFA?

Your presence is like a bad smell that fat people are expected to rub
their nose in.

No matter how you phrase it is still bull sh.t. YOu need to get a
life.

>> So if you have 10 pounds of body fat, about 320 kcal is your maximum deficit
>> for losing only fat. At that rate it takes 11 days to lose a pound.
>
>No.  You can lose it as soon as you burn it, practically.  If you exercise and
>burn 5500 kcal per day, and you consume only 2000, you'll lose a pound of fat
>per day.

I guess the gym nazis are supposed to run fat people around the block
with a whip and a chair...it won't happen without a fight.

>The deficit has to come from somewhere, and if it doesn't come from fat, it
>has to come from destruction of lean body mass, glycogen, etc.  There isn't
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>during famines would die fat.  But they don't.  They are always skin and bones
>when they die.  If they have fat, they stay alive.

Why yes they do. So fat is not all bad, is it?

>> That is false; people who starve severely usually become ``skinny fat''. Small
>> circumferences of torso and limbs, but not much muscle definition.
>
>People who starve become "fat free," with essentially no significant fat
>anywhere.

If we divest ourselves of out trolls, will we become troll free?

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Mxsmanic - 23 Jul 2008 20:01 GMT
> What truth? The truth that trolls are perpetual pests that have so
> much time on their hands that they have to poke sticks at fat people.
> The people in SSFA do not talk about diets becuase that is secondary
> to LIVING. You and your fellow pests seem to think that a fat person
> who is not obsessing about their weight is somehow deficient.

I don't care if someone wants to be fat.  However, when they say things that
aren't true in an attempt to hide the fact that they lack the desire or
discipline necessary to lose weight, I feel compelled to call them on it.

> Why yes they do. So fat is not all bad, is it?

Fat serves a purpose, but too much of it is sometimes bad for health.
Lady Veteran - 24 Jul 2008 02:38 GMT
>> What truth? The truth that trolls are perpetual pests that have so
>> much time on their hands that they have to poke sticks at fat people.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>aren't true in an attempt to hide the fact that they lack the desire or
>discipline necessary to lose weight, I feel compelled to call them on it.

I think that is an individual short coming. It is not a reason to
troll a whole group.

>> Why yes they do. So fat is not all bad, is it?
>
>Fat serves a purpose, but too much of it is sometimes bad for health.

So is the stress caused by ridicule and job loss. Thanks to the brain
stems, I know too much about both.

I don't see you as a brain stem. Please do not act like one.

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Amber - 24 Jul 2008 12:09 GMT
>So is the stress caused by ridicule and job loss. Thanks to the brain
>stems, I know too much about both.

You are ridiculed because you voluntarily come into a newsgroup and
ridicule people.

You are unemployed because your Usenet addiction negatively impacted your
job performance.

You are now homeless because of unemployment and your inability to save
money while you were employed for financial emergencies.

You have no one to blame but yourself for your dilemma.
The Master - 24 Jul 2008 14:43 GMT
> You are ridiculed because you voluntarily come into a newsgroup and
> ridicule people.

What about the people who don't ridicule others, but are ridiculed anyhow?
Care to excuse the actions of size nazis' attack on fat people in general
(not just against LV) also?
Lady Veteran - 24 Jul 2008 17:03 GMT
>> You are ridiculed because you voluntarily come into a newsgroup and
>> ridicule people.
>
>What about the people who don't ridicule others, but are ridiculed anyhow?
>Care to excuse the actions of size nazis' attack on fat people in general
>(not just against LV) also?

"Amber" is probably a pimple-faced skinny teenage that never bathes,
so I wouldn't count in anything it has to say.

I made new rules that I wouldn't battle with anyone using an anon
remailer any more. It has gotten much quieter here, hasn't it.

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
SneakyP - 24 Jul 2008 22:27 GMT
>>> You are ridiculed because you voluntarily come into a newsgroup and
>>> ridicule people.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I made new rules that I wouldn't battle with anyone using an anon
> remailer any more. It has gotten much quieter here, hasn't it.

RRRRRRight LoooneyVee.   Please tell your newsreader to post another
"IngPore this dizum post", thou hypocrite.

Signature

SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)

Lady Veteran - 24 Jul 2008 17:01 GMT
You are a dizum so whatever you spew isn't real. Get a pair and come
back and someone may believe you.

LV-posted from SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Howard - 24 Jul 2008 17:10 GMT
>You are a dizum so whatever you spew isn't real. Get a pair and come
>back and someone may believe you.
>
>LV-posted from SSFA

A pair of what?

Very lame retort.

This may be the best you can do when you can not  come up with a
credible reply.  

You have in the past made the same sort of statements about postings
coming via Motzarella.  Now you are using Motzarella yourself.  

Your credibility continues to drop,

Howard Pepper

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
SneakyP - 24 Jul 2008 22:27 GMT
Howard  <hpepper@acme.com> wrote in news:d3ah84lrlutk2g3kq826j5m8mif80861l0
@4ax.com:

>>You are a dizum so whatever you spew isn't real. Get a pair and come
>>back and someone may believe you.
>>
>>LV-posted from SSFA
>
> A pair of what?

Meatballs with mozarella, likely.

> Very lame retort.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Your credibility continues to drop,

She'll start using dizum when she figures out how.

Signature

SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)

SneakyP - 24 Jul 2008 22:27 GMT
> You are a dizum so whatever you spew isn't real. Get a pair and come
> back and someone may believe you.

B... b... B... B... but you just said you weren't replying to them.
Hypocrite!

Signature

SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)

Cujo DeSockpuppet - 23 Jul 2008 20:10 GMT
>>> I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in
>>> energy expenditure are not small.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> What truth? The truth that trolls are perpetual pests that have so
> much time on their hands that they have to poke sticks at fat people.

No, just stalking freaks like you, dipshit. Don't try to classify yourself
among good people who post here simply because you're fat. You're also an
a.shole and that's where the comparison breaks down, Obsessed One.

> The people in SSFA do not talk about diets becuase that is secondary
> to LIVING. You and your fellow pests seem to think that a fat person
> who is not obsessing about their weight is somehow deficient.

Nobody made that claim except you, Blobstress.

> Why can't you let people be??

Projection noted, stalker.  

>>> ``Can'' is quite a different word from ``does''.
>>
>>Yes.  Everyone can, but many obese people do not.
>
> So are you so wealthy that you cannot think of anything else but why
> fat people don't obsess over weight loss?

WARNING: Kookspeak alert. My kookbabble translator bit the dust on that
last sentence and I'm hoping nobody else loses theirs.

>>> In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can
>>> yield about 32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It takes the use of 3500 calories to make up a pound of fat. More to
> hug, I think :-)

Don't kid yourself, you really don't think and you seem incapable of it.

>>> It is hypothesized that fat mobilization may be increased by intense
>>> exercise or drugs.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> On your side as well. why is it so important that you be right and
> deliberately post off topic in SSFA?

Who set you up as judge, Blobster?

> Your presence is like a bad smell that fat people are expected to rub
> their nose in.

Wonderful imagery, dumbshit.

> No matter how you phrase it is still bull sh.t. YOu need to get a
> life.

Like yours? That's a joke, right?

>>> So if you have 10 pounds of body fat, about 320 kcal is your maximum
>>> deficit for losing only fat. At that rate it takes 11 days to lose a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I guess the gym nazis are supposed to run fat people around the block
> with a whip and a chair...it won't happen without a fight.

Damn, she's getting belligerent!

>>The deficit has to come from somewhere, and if it doesn't come from
>>fat, it has to come from destruction of lean body mass, glycogen, etc.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Why yes they do. So fat is not all bad, is it?

You'll grasp for any straw...

>>> That is false; people who starve severely usually become ``skinny
>>> fat''. Small circumferences of torso and limbs, but not much muscle
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> If we divest ourselves of out trolls, will we become troll free?

Not a chance. You'll still be here, won't you?

PS: Thanks for the froth, nutso!
Kaz Kylheku - 23 Jul 2008 20:05 GMT
>> I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in energy
>> expenditure are not small.
>
> The notion of dramatic changes in metabolism is routinely used by fat people
> to explain why they "cannot" lose weight.

So what? Be that as it may, that is neither here nor there. The truth doesn't
depend on how people use it or misuse it.

Fact is, those people are right, in the sense that their pitifully feeble,
half-assed attempts at losing do fail because of metabolic adjustment.

But think about this. Some fat people also claim that they eat like ``everyone
else'', but have a ``slow metabolism''. The finding that expenditure adjusts
for intake shows that this is false.  Fat people in fact have metabolisms that
are working extra hard to compensate for their monstrous overeating.  They can
put away a huge number of calories, not lift a finger all day, and not get any
fatter.

> The reality is that ...

you're a twit who makes up nonsense and presents it as fact, which explains why
you have not been able to come up with a shred of external evidence for
anything you have claimed.

> you will always
> lose weight if you eat less than you burn, and your metabolism changes very
> little in the process.

... no matter how much scientific research shows otherwise, right?

> The laws of thermodynamics cannot be set aside

... which is /isn't/ what is happening when expenditure adjusts to compensate
for intake! Nobody claimed anything such as that energy is created out of
nothing, etc.

> you need a certain amount of energy for certain things; if you don't consume

The minimum amount of energy you can live on is tiny, and much smaller than
what most people eat, even those who are maintaining body composition.

> enough to provide the energy, you burn fat to make up the difference.  There
> are no exceptions, period.

/Do/ you burn exclusively fat to make up the difference? So you say here, but
then later in the same article you (correctly) contradict it:

> The deficit has to come from somewhere, and if it doesn't come from fat, it
> has to come from destruction of lean body mass, glycogen, etc.  There isn't

Good grief.

>> Like I said before, cite something or go away.
>
> No.  

Fair enough; by your admission then, your present attitude is such that you are
not fit for this level of debate.

I can back up my statements by citing research, whereas you refuse.  Therefore,
the vast majority of the effort is mine.  You are just typing whatever pops
into your head, presenting it as fact.

> The truth hurts, but you can't lose weight unless you accept the truth.

I don't know which ``you'' you are talking about---the rhetorical or the
actual---but I've maintained (without much difficulty, I might add) a
single-digit body fat percentage for some four years now.

>> ``Can'' is quite a different word from ``does''.
>
> Yes.  Everyone can, but many obese people do not.

Not sure what you are talking about now. This was about successful dieters
going further. You're clearly unable to keep the conversation straight;
maybe trim a little less of the quoted material to help jog your memory?

Most successful dieters stop short (usually far short) of achieving that kind
of low-body-fat physique that gets attention at the beach.

>> In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can yield about
>> 32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the amount of fat you can lose
>> by creating a deficit.
>
> A pound of body fat represents about 3500 kcal, not 32.

If you read properly, this is not what the 32 represents. It represents the
amount of energy that a pound of body fat is able to liberate, per day, under
deficit conditions. That's what the above clearly says: ``each pound of body
fat can yield about 32 calories of energy per day''.

This finding is documented in the paper ``A limit on the energy transfer rate
from the human fat store in hypophagia''.

This is the last time I will repeat and clarify this; any further obtuse
misunderstanding will be ignored.

>> It is hypothesized that fat mobilization may be increased by intense
>> exercise or drugs.
>
> Hypothesis = speculation

Yes, the paper hypothesizes that more energy can be obtained from the fat
stores by these means. But the finding is that from dieting, only 32 calories
(give or take a little) can be pulled from a pound of stored fat.

>> So if you have 10 pounds of body fat, about 320 kcal is your maximum deficit
>> for losing only fat. At that rate it takes 11 days to lose a pound.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> burn 5500 kcal per day, and you consume only 2000, you'll lose a pound of fat
> per day.

Note that my paragraph above is qualified with ``if you have 10 pounds of body
fat''. The situation you describe is impossible.

Since a pound of fat can only release 32 calories, you need to be carrying
about 110 pounds of fat in order to release 3500 calories from your fat store.

So yes, someone severely obese, carrying 110 pounds of fat, can theoretically
lose a pound of fat by creating a 3500 Kcal deficit in a single day.

But someone carrying only 10 pounds of fat cannot, due to the ``limit on the
energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia'' (the title of
the paper).

The less fat you have, the less energy your fat stores can deliver.
Any deficit in excess of what the fat store can deliver will come from
other sources, like the breakdown of protein.

> If things were really as some people claim, people in Third World countries
> during famines would die fat.  But they don't.  They are always skin and bones
> when they die.  If they have fat, they stay alive.

``Skin and bones''? Is that a scientific observation? What body fat percentage
is that?

Can you cite some research about the body composition of people deceased from
famine?

Or is this more bullshit that you made up?

>> That is false; people who starve severely usually become ``skinny fat''. Small
>> circumferences of torso and limbs, but not much muscle definition.
>
> People who starve become "fat free," with essentially no significant fat
> anywhere.

Do you have a citation for this?

I do have a relevant citation:

``Body composition in female anorexia nervosa patients''. Probst,
Goris, et al., British Journal of Nutrition, 1996.

These researchers found anorexics to have quite a lot of body fat.

Results: whereas only 2% of the subjects had a BMI higher than 17, and 67%
were below 15 BMI, their mean body fat percentage was 13.5. Only 25% of them
were below 10% body fat, 61% of them below 15% BF, and 7% were actually above
20% bf.

These subjects are already dangerously emaciated, yet a substantial proportion
of their body mass consists of fat.

I hope you don't blame me for placing more credibility in something published
in the British Journal of Nutrition than in your unattributed drivel.
Mxsmanic - 23 Jul 2008 20:12 GMT
> Fact is, those people are right, in the sense that their pitifully feeble,
> half-assed attempts at losing do fail because of metabolic adjustment.

Their attempts fail because they are feeble and "half-assed," not because of
metabolic adjustment.

> But think about this. Some fat people also claim that they eat like ``everyone
> else'', but have a ``slow metabolism''.

They are wrong.

> The finding that expenditure adjusts
> for intake shows that this is false.  Fat people in fact have metabolisms that
> are working extra hard to compensate for their monstrous overeating.  They can
> put away a huge number of calories, not lift a finger all day, and not get any
> fatter.

The fatter you are, the more you burn.

> ... which is /isn't/ what is happening when expenditure adjusts to compensate
> for intake!

Expenditure _cannot_ adjust, because a given activity always requires a given
amount of energy.  Internal organs need the same amount of energy to
accomplish the same work, no matter what a person is or isn't eating.

> The minimum amount of energy you can live on is tiny, and much smaller than
> what most people eat, even those who are maintaining body composition.

If you are in a coma, you can live on your BMR.  Otherwise, you need more.

> /Do/ you burn exclusively fat to make up the difference?

For the most part, yes.  That's what fat is for.

> Most successful dieters stop short (usually far short) of achieving that kind
> of low-body-fat physique that gets attention at the beach.

A low-body-fat physique often gets more attention in a freak show, especially
in women.  People who try to eliminate all subcutaneous fat look very strange.

> If you read properly, this is not what the 32 represents. It represents the
> amount of energy that a pound of body fat is able to liberate, per day, under
> deficit conditions. That's what the above clearly says: ``each pound of body
> fat can yield about 32 calories of energy per day''.

It can yield 3500 kcal.

> This finding is documented in the paper ``A limit on the energy transfer rate
> from the human fat store in hypophagia''.

Anyone can write a paper.  I've done so myself.
The Master - 23 Jul 2008 20:16 GMT
>> Fact is, those people are right, in the sense that their pitifully feeble,
>> half-assed attempts at losing do fail because of metabolic adjustment.
>
> Their attempts fail because they are feeble and "half-assed," not because of
> metabolic adjustment.

When size nazi bigots disagree on how to best attack the target of their
hate, all hell breaks lose...  This should be entertaining...  Please
don't let us stop you too from having at it.  I'll get the popcorn.
Dr. Lippschitz - 26 Jul 2008 03:36 GMT
>>> Fact is, those people are right, in the sense that their pitifully
>>> feeble,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> hate, all hell breaks lose...  This should be entertaining...  Please
> don't let us stop you too from having at it.  I'll get the popcorn.

If it were only popcorn you were eating, you wouldn't have a problem. If you
ate all the popcorn you could get down your throat with all the melted
butter and salt on it all day long, you would lose weight.
The Master - 28 Jul 2008 16:40 GMT
> If it were only popcorn you were eating, you wouldn't have a problem. If you
> ate all the popcorn you could get down your throat with all the melted
> butter and salt on it all day long, you would lose weight.

Hu?  Wait wait wait...  You saying that melted butter and salt is good now
Doc?  Gee whiz Wally, I wonder why no one else knows that...  Probably
because you are full of sh.t actually, but what else is new?
Kaz Kylheku - 23 Jul 2008 22:06 GMT
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.support.diet.low-carb.]
> Expenditure _cannot_ adjust

You are contradicting research that I have dug up.

Unlike you, who makes things up as you type, I relayed information from a
source.

If you have a problem with that information, go chase down the researchers who
produced it and take it up with them.

I am not a researcher, only someone who is interested in the the results of
such research (and as well in anything that anyone has to say, provided
that whatever is being said lies within the limits of his credibility).

What you are saying directly contradicts some of the science.

I place greater credibility in the science, than I do in your claims.

> because a given activity always requires a given
> amount of energy.  Internal organs need the same amount of energy to
> accomplish the same work, no matter what a person is or isn't eating.

That is false. For instance, a heart that beats slower requires less
energy. Or, organs that are generating less heat require less energy.

> Anyone can write a paper.  I've done so myself.

I don't doubt that. But the difference is that when other people write papers,
they sometimes actually do some research which they then describe in the paper;
i.e, they don't just make up bullshit and write it down.

Then there is the matter of publication. Where has your paper appeared?
Who reviewed it? How widely is it cited by others?

Let's just agree that you're disagreeing with the results of the research which
is summarized in the paper ``A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human
fat store in hypophagia'', by Seymour S. Alpert.  of the department of Physics
and Astronomy, U. of New Mexico.  published in 2005 in the Journal of
Theoretical Biology.

Regardless of your uninformed ranting, I will continue to agree with the
results revealed in this paper.

If you have a problem with its content, go take it up with Mr. Alpert.
DZ - 23 Jul 2008 23:22 GMT
>> A pound of body fat represents about 3500 kcal, not 32.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> This finding is documented in the paper ``A limit on the energy
> transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia''.

The finding is less general than that.  The 1950 "Minnesota
experiment" data on 32 young soldiers who were put on a 1570 calories
diet, showed an exponential decrease in fat mass (FM). These data were
used to fit a model to obtain the 31 calories result.

However, the original model developed by the author earlier has the FM
and the fat free mass (FFM) both depending on time in a single
equation. Thus, the FFM was set to a constant value to obtain the
solution.

The claim is therefore this: under a diet that is largely sparing the
FFM, the fat mobilization would be about 31 calories. As acknowledged,
the model in the form as used in the paper is not applicable to many
situations, including complete starvation, overeating, vigorous
exercise, different population, etc.

>> Kaz Kylheku:
>>> I've already cited research which shows that the adapations in energy
>>> expenditure are not small.
>>
>> The notion of dramatic changes in metabolism is routinely used by
>> fat people to explain why they "cannot" lose weight.
...
>> you will always
>> lose weight if you eat less than you burn, and your metabolism changes very
>> little in the process.
>
> ... no matter how much scientific research shows otherwise, right?

"Overall, studies suggest that a decrease in energy expenditure does
occur initially after calorie restriction, but these changes are acute
and not consistently recordable over time. Such conclusions have been
drawn from a variety of studies using whole-body measurements of
energy expenditure including rodents (Ballor, 1991, Gonzales-Pacheco
et al., 1993, McCarter et al., 1985, McCarter and Palmer, 1992 and
Santos-Pinto et al., 2001), monkeys (Blanc et al., 2003, DeLany et
al., 1999 and Lane et al., 1996), and humans (Lammert and Hansen,
1982, Garby et al., 1988, Velthuis-te Wierik et al., 1995 and Weyer et
al., 2000)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16644290

Metabolic rate, properly adjusted for weight loss, does not slow
down during starvation.
Seth - 21 Aug 2008 00:02 GMT
>> In this paper the finding is given that each pound of body fat can yield about
>> 32 calories of energy per day, and this limits the amount of fat you can lose
>> by creating a deficit.
>
>A pound of body fat represents about 3500 kcal, not 32.

What part of "per day" don't you understand?

Seth
Signature

Of course, common logic fails to hold up here on mfw, as a general rule
of thumb. -- Lyle McDonald

The.Sargon@gmail.com - 25 Jul 2008 17:23 GMT
> >> The reason is that the metabolism compensates for changes in intake by
> >> adjusting expenditure. Consequently weight can be maintained on a range of
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> If you have /no/ fat, you're either an impossible human being or a dead one.

That's a rocking good paper but a pain to read; I personally prefer
the translation by Lyle MacDonald (and note that by using the formula
he discusses + bodyfat measurements (calipers) I've noted that it
tracks as predicted, i.e., if I 'underfeed' by more than a 100 caloris
AND do aerobics I bonk quickly).

*********************************************************************************************
Determining the Maximum Dietary Deficit for Fat Loss
by Lyle McDonald

The Question

A long-standing question in my mind has been, “What is the optimal (or
maximal) deficit for a fat loss diet?” Yes, I know I’m not the first
to address the issue but I’ve always wondered if we couldn’t figure
out exactly what an optimal deficit might be on a diet, rather than
relying on annoying trial and error.

I’m sure readers are familiar with previous approaches but let’s run
through them quickly. The simplest (read: totally retarded) method of
setting calories on a diet is to give everyone some fixed amount.
Usually women get 1200, men get 1500. How such an intake can magically
be correct regardless of bodyweight or activity, I have no idea. But
apparently a 300 lb man and a 150 lb man should both eat an identical
amount and that amount is 1500 calories/day when they diet. Amazingly,
in 2006, that kind of moronic stuff is still out there.

The second approach is along the lines of, “To lose one pound of fat
per week, eat 500 calories/day less than your maintenance; to lose 2
pounds, eat 1000 calories less per day.” Simple math, although not
entirely correct for a variety of reasons I don’t want to get into. I
addressed problems with both approaches in the big Ketogenic Diet
book.

In Bodyopus, Dan Duchaine (who was writing for lean folks, remember)
recommended a maximum deficit of 20% below maintenance. Better, as
this at least scales the deficit relative to maintenance. A big a.s
guy with a 4000 calorie maintenance gets a larger deficit (800 cal/
day) than a small female with a 1700 calorie maintenance (340 cal/
day). Of course, weekly fat/weight loss will be significantly
different for the two, which seems to pass the reality check. Bigger
males do lose more fat than smaller females. I regularly advocate this
approach.

In the Ketogenic Diet book, I suggested setting a deficit based on
current total bodyweight, since most people have trouble figuring out
their true maintenance intake. Assuming an average maintenance intake
of 14-16 cal/lb (you can use 15 cal/lb and split the middle), a 20%
deficit yields ~11-13 cal/lb (and 10-12 cal/lb for dieting has been
around in the bodybuilding world for at least a decade), which will
then have to be adjusted based on real world results. Some people, for
example, with low daily activity and shitty genetics, may have to go
to 8 cal/lb AND do aerobics to lose fat effectively. Back when I was
lifting twice/week and doing fuckall else activity, I had to do that.
Now that I’m training 16-20 hours/week, I get to eat more when I diet.
Hooray. In the two new books (The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook and A Guide
to Flexible Dieting (you should BUY THEM NOW), I offer my personal
scheme for adjusting intake based on what’s happening to bodyweight
and strength levels in the gym.

Now, empirically and based on research, it’s well established that…

a. fatter individuals lose more fat and less lean body mass (LBM) than
leaner individuals; and
b. bigger individuals lose weight more quickly

By corollary, smaller/leaner individuals not only lose total weight/
fat at a slower rate, they lose a greater proportion of LBM. The whole
issue of calorie partitioning has been discussed to death in my
various books, especially The Ultimate Diet 2.0.

It’s why those fat a.ses on “The Biggest Loser” can drop 8-10 lbs. a
week, well at least for the first week (and some of that is certainly
water, glycogen and clearing the sh.t out of their bowels), and
someone at 12% bodyfat may struggle to drop one pound per week without
sacrificing muscle.

And anybody who read the Rapid Fat Loss book notes that I sort of
worked the above into the schema: based on starting bodyfat, fatter
individuals end up with a larger deficit than leaner individuals.
Leaner folks ended up maybe 40% below maintenance but fatter folks
might have been as much as 75% below maintenance. But it was a rough
back of the hand kind of calculation; it was more that I wanted
protein intake set at a certain level and daily caloric intake sort of
fell out of that. As it turns out, the feedback I’ve received tells me
I was at least in the right ballpark: leaner folks aren’t losing LBM
(as long as they set it up correctly) and fatter folks are dropping
fat like crazy.

Now, some work on fasting had suggested a maximal rate of fat
oxidation (you’d expect this value to be largest during total fasting,
but the numbers never quite worked out how I wanted to express them.
So I gave up on the question for a bit.

The basic question in my mind, and the one I’m going to address here
is, “Based on an individuals’ current bodyfat/bodyweight level, do we
know what their maximum rate of weekly fat loss can or will be?”
Phrased differently, what’s the maximum deficit that they can run and
spare lean body mass?

The Answer
So imagine my surprise when this little theoretical paper (note the
journal title) showed up on my Pubcrawler last year (1). Titled, “A
limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in
hypophagia”, it examined (from a somewhat simplified and theoretical
way) exactly the question I gave above: what is the maximum rate at
which the body can derive energy from fat stores to cover a diet
induced deficit while sparing lean body mass.

It’s a nasty little paper, filled primarily with equations,
explanations of those equations and some more equations to boot.
Headache inducing to be sure. I’ll spare you the details. Based on a
somewhat simplified analysis of what data exists (including the
seminal Minnesota semi-starvation experiment), they conclude that the
maximal rate at which fat stores can provide energy to the body is 290
+- 25 kj/kg which is approximately 31 kcal/lb of fat per day.

So, if you are carrying a mere 10 lbs. of fat, you can sustain a 310
cal/day deficit.
20 lbs. = 620 calories.
30 lbs. = 930 calories

You get the idea and this is not difficult math. Multiply your total
fat mass in pounds by 31, that’s how much of a caloric deficit that
fat mass can support on a daily basis.

One quick note: the above values are for dieting only and one of the
simplifying assumptions in the paper was relatively ‘normal/moderate’
activity levels. The paper mentions specifically that the values above
might be varied through pharmaceutical means (which target the rate
limiting steps of fat energy transfer), or through high levels of
activity. It even mentions bodybuilders specifically as a group that
might exceed this value with a lot of training. For now, I’ll just
focus on the diet end, I’ll come back to drugs and exercise
afterwards.

So, the basic assertion of the paper is that, so long as the net daily
deficit does not exceed what your fat stores can provide, you should
spare lean body mass. And based on the small amount of research that
they found, this seemed to be generally true (many studies find an
initial rapid LBM loss but this is most likely glycogen and water and
stuff, not muscle mass). By extension, if your daily caloric deficit
exceeds the above, your body will have to mobilize LBM to cover the
difference. So let’s look at an example.

Say we have a 180 lb male at 15% bodyfat. He has 27 lbs. of fat, and
his maintenance calorie intake is 15 cal/lb or 2700 calories. With 27
lbs. of fat, he should be able to sustain a caloric deficit, from diet
alone, of 27 lbs. fat * 31 cal/lb = 837 calories/day. So he could
reduce his calories to 1863 (ha! 10 cal/lb) and shouldn’t lose any LBM
at that level of intake. He should get a weekly fat loss of just over
1.5 lbs./week.

If the same 180 lb guy was at 10% bodyfat, only 18 lbs. of fat, he
could only sustain a 558 calorie/day deficit (2150 cal/day or 12 cal/
lb), he’s down to 1 pound per week. By the time he’s at 8%, he’s down
to 14.5 lbs. of fat and a total deficit of 446 calories/day and about
2/3 a pound of fat loss/week. Oh yeah, if he were a fat sh.t at 30%
bodyfat, that’s 54 lbs. of fat, he could sustain a deficit of over
1500 cal/day and lose over 3 pounds per week of pure lard; of course
he’d only be eating 1300 cal/day. Again, the above all seem to roughly
pass the reality check in terms of what we see in human dieters.

Now, one implication of the above is that, as a diet proceeds and your
fat stores shrink, your net deficit has to decrease. Ok, step back,
take a breath and read that again. More importantly, note my use of
the word ‘net’ in the first sentence of that paragraph.

Now it’s going to get confusing.

At first glance, the above seems to be indicating that, as you get
leaner, you’ll need to raise calories to compensate, so that the
deficit isn’t as extreme. But that’s incorrect; it is saying that fat
loss will need to slow (because the net deficit you can sustain will
be smaller). By ‘net’ deficit, I mean the difference between your
current maintenance requirements and your intake. This is important
because, as you diet, your maintenance requirements go down due to the
loss of bodymass along with the adaptive component of metabolic rate
(due to insulin, leptin, ghrelin, peptide YY, etc). Let’s simplify
this by looking at the math.

Our 180 lb man at 15% starts his diet. He has 27 lbs. of fat and can
sustain a maximum deficit of 27 lbs. * 31 cal/lb = 837 calories.
Assuming a maintenance of 15 cal/lb (2700), his starting calorie level
will be 2700 cal - 837 calories = 1863 calories/day. He’ll be losing
around 1.5 lb fat/week.

So now we check in 8 weeks later, he’s down 12 lbs., almost purely of
fat (we’ll ignore any small LBM losses). His new numbers are 168 lbs.
with 15 lbs. of fat = 9% bodyfat. Maximal sustainable deficit = 15 *
31 = 465 cal

Assuming his maintenance is still 15 cal/lb (not automatically a safe
assumption), his maintenance requirements should now be 2520 calories.
But the adaptive part of metabolic rate reduction has probably dropped
him a good 10% below that. So let’s say his maintenance is 2250 cal/
day or so. 2250 cal/day - 465 calories = 1785 calories. So, not much
of a reduction from his previous 1863 calorie/day diet. Basically, the
drop in his maintenance levels over the course of 8 weeks offsets the
fact that he can’t sustain as much of a deficit and is now leaner. Of
course, his fat loss has also slowed to just under a pound/week.

Now four weeks later, he’s dropped about 4 more pounds of fat. His new
numbers are
164 lbs. with 11 lb of fat = 6.7% bodyfat. Maximal sustainable deficit
= 11 * 31 = 341 cal

His maintenance will have dropped further, let’s say 14 cal/lb
(people’s daily activity tends to go down due to the hormonal changes
from extreme dieting) and a 15% adaptive reduction which brings him to
1951 calories/day. Reduce by 341 to get 1610 calories/day. He will
need to reduce daily calories by a couple of hundred (from 1785/day to
1610/day) to achieve the maximum deficit but his fat loss will be down
to 2/3rds pound per week.

Ok, step back for a second: the above calculations aren’t meant to be
the holy word of god, there are a lot of estimates upon estimates
being made, especially my guesses as to the changes in maintenance
level and how big of an impact the adaptive component is having. The
adaptive component is a big question mark with not enough data for my
liking. Tracking morning body temperature gives a rough guideline: for
every 1 degree drop in morning temperature below 97.8 degrees, your
metabolism is suppressed by about 10%. This was more to illustrate
what I meant by ‘net deficit’ with changes in both fat mass and
maintenance requirements.

But, again, the above seems to scale roughly with reality. As people
get leaner and leaner, fat loss slows drastically. To keep it moving,
they have to either cut calories further or increase activity, both
can cause muscle loss. Every bodybuilder who has had to move to 2
hours/day of aerobics to keep the fat coming off knows what I’m
talking about. Drugs become more and more attractive as the myriad
other systems start to fight back against you as well (on which note:
will someone please get the folks working on intranasal leptin to
hurry it up).

Drugs and exercise
As mentioned above, the paper I’m basing all of this nonsense on was
looking at non-exercising dieting or fasting men, not folks who were
training or taking drugs. And it mentioned specifically that both of
those could potentially increase the maximum rate of fat mobilization
value (above 31 cal/lb) without sacrificing lean body mass. Certainly,
once again, this idea passes the reality check. Even the addition of
the ephedrine/caffeine stack elevates fat loss while sparing muscle
mass. Clenbuterol is more potent, GH is great and DNP is like f.cking
magic.

Clearly, exercise also has an impact. Even back in Bodyopus, Dan
mentioned that only part of the total deficit (he used 20%) should
come from diet, the other part should come from increased activity.
This usually means aerobics, but some prefer to use high rep/short
rest period weight training or interval training and there is some
logic to picking one of the latter options. He suggested that men do
better with 15% calorie deficit and 5% aerobics and women at 10%
apiece. Given the issues women have with lower bodyfat blood flow, and
that aerobic activity can overcome some of the limitations that make
lower bodyfat so stubborn, that makes a lot of sense. As well, women
(because of their lower maintenance requirements), end up eating a
tiny amount of food if they cut too much out of their diet. Increasing
their net daily deficit via activity allows them to eat more and not
starve to death on a daily basis. I’ve been working on the stubborn
bodyfat issue for years now; my next book outlines not only the
problem but multiple solutions to that problem.

Conclusion
In this article, I’ve been able to give dieters a starting point for
the maximum sustainable deficit which can come from calorie
restriction. To summarize: simply determine how many pounds of fat
you’re carrying. Then multiply that value by 31 calories. That’s how
much you can potentially decrease your daily food intake. If you want
to try to increase fat loss, any further increase in the deficit
should either come from increased activity or compounds that either
increase the mobilization or burning of fatty acids for fuel. As well,
as you get leaner/lighter, you will need to periodically recalculate
your daily calories to take into account your diminishing fat mass and
decreased maintenance requirements due to both decreased bodymass and
the adaptive component of metabolic rate. An argument can also be made
for saving increases in activity for later in the diet when your diet
deficit has to be lower.

Please keep in mind, however, all of these theoretical calculations
sort of pale to real world results. If you’re losing strength in the
weight room like crazy, your deficit is too big regardless of what the
math works out too, increase them until you stop hemorrhaging strength
(and probably muscle). And even if you have to trial and error it a
bit, the above should at least give you a starting point.

References
1. Alpert SS. A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat
store in hypophagia. J Theor Biol. 2005 Mar 7;233(1):1-13.

Lyle McDonald is an all around physiology nerd with far too much time
on his hands who apparently enjoys doing math for his readers. You can
read more of his work or join his new weekly (no, really) newsletter
at www.bodyrecomposition.com. You should buy all of his books from his
store at store.lylemcdonald.com. You know you want to.
__________________
Seth - 22 Jul 2008 19:20 GMT
>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.support.diet.low-carb.]

and ignored.

>The reason is that the metabolism compensates for changes in intake by
>adjusting expenditure.

Mostly by limiting activity.

>If you're maintaining at 3000 calories per day, and then drop the intake to
>1500, this doesn't naively translate to a 1500 calorie deficit, because your
>caloric expenditure will change in response to the intake drop.

If you're maintaining at 3000 Calories/day, you're doing a lot of
work.  If you cut to 1500 and continues doing the same amount of work,
there is a 1500 Calorie deficit.  If you stop doing that much work,
the deficit drops.

>Also, a given fat loss rate cannot be sustained all the way until you have no
>fat left, otherwise every successful dieter could get completely ``shredded''
>just by continuing with the same program for a while longer.

They mostly lose muscle, too, so they won't get shredded.

Also, energy expenditure for a given amount of activity drops with
body weight.

Seth
Signature

There's no amount of rudeness in the world that can not be cured by the
judicious application of extreme violence. -- Roland Lee

Lady Veteran - 22 Jul 2008 23:35 GMT
>>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.support.diet.low-carb.]
>
>and ignored.

Of course it is. Do you like being a pest?

LV-posted in SSFA
Charlie - 23 Jul 2008 01:50 GMT
>>>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.support.diet.low-carb.]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>LV-posted in SSFA

Ignore this poster.  Bobbi Sanchez is unemployed and homeless due to her
Usenet activities.
Lady Veteran - 23 Jul 2008 02:20 GMT
Move along-this is a dizum.

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
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Jeremy - 23 Jul 2008 04:20 GMT
>Move along-this is a dizum.
>
>LV-posted in SSFA

Move along  - This is a  cross posting troll from Motzarella

Jeremy - Posted in good faith

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Lady Veteran - 23 Jul 2008 17:03 GMT
>>Move along-this is a dizum.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

You have no faith-good or otherwise.

LV-posted in SSFA

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."

---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Tired of being harassed on Usenet? Join my group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/antiCHU
"I am mad as hell and I will not take it anymore!"

---Network
Non scrivetemi - 23 Jul 2008 20:18 GMT
> Move along-this is a dizum.
>
> LV-posted in SSFA

Your face is a dizum.
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jul 2008 20:31 GMT
> >* Sujit Bhattacharya, 39, lost 40 pounds in six months
>
> Remember those numbers for later.

In particular at 3500 calories per pound of fat (a low
estimate) it's 140,000 calories.  In 6 months at 180
days that's 778 calories per day.

> > He had been eating more
> >than 2,500 calories a day, perhaps 3,000, so he cut this down to 1,500
> >calories a day. That meant losing a pound every two or three days.
>
> Compare with the above.

He cut 1000 to 1500 calories per day and lost 778 per
day.

> >"As long as you know how many calories you need and how many calories you
> >eat, it's just math," he said.
>
> Um, yeah, or something.

This shows that "a calorie is a calorie is a calorie" is false.

It also shows that when it comes to "calorie in equals
calories out" the calories out part is variable - His metabolism
dropped somewhere between 772 and 222 calories per day.

Except my 3500 calories per pound estimate is very
conservative.  Let's call it 4500 calories per pound instead
as that's the caloric count of fairly pure fat.  That's
180,000 calories lost in 180 days.  If he reduced by 1000
calories consistantly that would add up.  But sometimes
he cut 1500 calories.  That still leaves as much as 222
calories per day of metabolism decrease.

It also shows that calories are what matters when you're
doing a calorie counting system.  Funny how that works.

There are plans where calories matter less - Low carb for
many, low fat for some.  On those plans the best that can
be acheived is hungerless gradual reduction of portion sizes.
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 22 Jul 2008 04:46 GMT
To lose weight, eat fewer calories. But don't take it to extremes like
those who follow the REAL Hollywood diet which is starvation.
Doug Freyburger - 25 Jul 2008 20:49 GMT
The.Sar...@gmail.com quoted an article by Lyle M about
limited fat release rates and how to adjust caloric intake
to not lose lean.

That's a long winded article that ends up going with a
simple guideline I've suggested over the years -

How many calories should I target?

I've read guidelines that range from 10 calories per pound
of goal weight through 12 calories per pound of current
weight for dieters.  The guideline of 10 per pound of goal
weight treats body fat as needing no calories (sorta).  The
guideline of 12 per pound of current weight treats body fat
as needing the same calories as muscle (sorta).  A
simple compromise is to take those two calorie numbers
and average them.  As you lose, redo the average based
on your new current weight every month or two.  The
result will be a gradual taper down in calories.

If you note the calorie levels Lyle M discussed if you change
my 10's above to 12's and my 12's above to 14's it gives the
same pattern of tapering down as Lyle's long winded version.
He's a lot more focused on exercise than I am and that
abotu covers the difference in calories.  Huh, as long winded
as I normally am, I ended up more sucsinct than Lyle M.

There's an even less exact guideline that I've suggested over
the years that works the same without calculation -

How should I handle portion sizes and hunger levels?

With over 20 to lose, if you've seen a new low in the last
two weeks you're doing fine so don't change your portion
sizes.  With under 20 to lose, if you've seen a new low in
the last four weeks you're doing fine so don't change your
portion sizes.

If you haven't been hungry in the last two weeks, tweak
your portion sizes down a bit.  If you have been hungry
more than once in the last two weeks, consider tweaking
your portion sizes up a bit.  But in the last ten pounds you
likely won't be able to avoid hunger so chose which you
want more those last 10 pounds or lack of hunger.

Combine these two sets of decisions and you end up
drifting down, treating food as a way of preventing hunger,
and drifting portion sizes down to keep loss happening.
All with the only math being counting calories and watching
for a new low.
 
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