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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / May 2009The Worst Restaurant Foods for Kids
http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> 1=31036 The Worst Restaurant Foods for Kids By Dave Zinczenko and Matt Goulding, Men's Health Men's Health Childhood obesity rates in America have tripled since 1980. Today, 16 percent of children between the ages of 6 and 19 are overweight or obese. In addition to those 9 million children who are already in trouble, an additional 15 percent of American kids are classified as at risk of becoming overweight or obese. Were not just talking baby fat here70 percent of overweight adolescents end up overweight or obese in adulthood. And since obesity increases your odds of heart attack, stroke, and early death of all causes (sometimes by as much as 33 percent), consider the impact of an entire generation of overweight children on our countrys health care systemand families. Its a chilling thought, especially if one of those children is your own. In spite of these terrifying statistics, the restaurant industry has done little to help combat the problem. If anything, the overstuffed, fat- and calorie-packed kids meals on many chain restaurants menus indicate that theyre just making things worse. Whats even more frustrating is that its hard to tell how goodor atrociousany particular food item can be just by looking at the name. Who knew a kids turkey burger could pack half a days worth of calories? Or a simple plate of spaghetti and red sauce could have the sodium equivalent of FOUR large orders of McDonalds french fries? Luckily, Eat This, Not That! is here to help you order smart and sensible food for your children when youre eating away from home. Skip these dietary disasters to help keep your kids lean, strong, and healthy. Worst Kids Side: Bob Evans Smiley Face Potatoes 524 calories 31 g fat (6 g saturated, 0 g trans) 646 mg sodium 57 g carbs Not even an extended bath in hot oil could wipe the grins from the faces of these creepy-looking potatoes. When eating out, side dishes make or break a meal, and with more fat and calories than Bobs Sirloin Steak, this side falls woefully into the latter category. Let this be a lesson to all the kids out there: Just because theyre smiling doesnt mean theyre nice. Choose the Home Fries instead for a fraction the calories and a quarter the fat. Eat This, Instead: Home Fries 86 calories 7 g fat (1 g saturated) 547 mg sodium 27 g carbs Worst Kids Sandwich: Au Bon Pain Kids Grilled Cheese 670 calories 41 g fat (25 g saturated, 0.5 g trans) 1,060 mg sodium Au Bon Pain turns a simple sandwich into a complicated messthis grilled cheese has as much saturated fat as 25 strips of bacon! The Au Bon Pain kids menu contains just as many items over 500 calories as under, so its important to be vigilant. Choose the small mac n cheese to satisfy your kids cheese cravings for a mere one-third the calories and none of the heart-harming trans fats. And to keep your own diet trans fat-free, avoid any item on this list of the trans-fattiest foods in America. Eat This, Instead: Kids Macaroni and Cheese 250 calories 14 g fat (9 g saturated, 0 g trans) Worst Kids Mexican Meal: On the Border Cheese Quesadilla 850 calories 66 g fat (26 g saturated) 1,250 mg sodium 26 g carbs This quesadilla accounts for half the calories your child should consume in an entire day (thats nearly 3 McDonalds cheeseburgers, for comparison). It also comes super-stuffed with sodium, which is especially bad for kids because it makes them thirsty, which means theyre more likely to drink an excess of super-sweetened, high-calorie fruit juice or soda to compensate. Talk about a real diet disaster. Choose a soft chicken taco, but order it without the fat- and calorie-packed rice and beans. Eat This, Instead: Soft Chicken Taco 250 calories 11 g fat (4.5 g saturated) 910 mg sodium 24 g carbs Worst Kids Healthy Burger: Ruby Tuesday Kids' Turkey Minis and Fries 873 calories 46 g fat 88 g carbs (Sodium content not listed) In a perfect world, ground turkey is leaner than ground beef and a turkey burger is a decent thing to feed your kid. But Ruby Tuesday finds a way to confound all expectations by cramming half a days worth of calories into these tiny burgers. We chose the turkey version because it presents itself as a healthier alternative to the beef burgers, but in reality it has only 44 fewer calories than the mini-cheeseburger with fries. Not exactly a healthy alternative at all. Discover other atrocious health foods on our list of the 14 worst healthy foods in America. Eat This, Instead: Chop Steak with Mashed Potatoes 403 calories 30 g fat 15 g carbs Worst Kids Spaghetti: Romanos Macaroni Grill Fettuccine Alfredo 890 calories 67 g fat (38 g saturated) 1,450 mg sodium 53 g carbs This simple dish of spaghetti and white sauce serves up nearly three-fourths of your kids daily sodium allowanceor, about as much salt as youd find in 4 large orders of McDonalds french fries. Its also packed with saturated fat and has the caloric equivalent of 6 Hostess Twinkies. Order a kids cheese pizza to trim nearly half the calories away. Discover other cool calorie-saving tricks from 10 ways to make fast-food healthy. Eat This, Instead: Mona Lisas Cheese Masterpizza 480 calories 14 g fat (8 g saturated) 940 mg sodium 62 g carbs Worst Kids Drink: Baskin Robbins Made with M&Ms shake (small) 980 calories 36 g fat (22 g saturated, 1 g trans) 129 g sugars 153 g carbs Its a marvel of modern food science that Baskin Robbins can fit this much fat and sugar into a 16-ounce cup. To do so, it took a reckless sense of abandon and over 70 ingredients (including many from this list of the most controversial food additives). All told, it has more calories than 4 packs of M&Ms and as much sugar as youll find in 13 Krispy Kreme Original Glazed Doughnuts! A word of warning about super-sweetened drinks: the average American consumes an extra 400 calories from sugar-sweetened beverages every day. The fastest way to see your kids belly grow is to feed him super-sweetened juices, smoothies, sodas and milkshakes. The Drink This, Instead: Smoothie should be consumed only as a dessert, and only on very special occasions. Drink This, Instead: Strawberry Citrus Fruit Blast (small) 350 calories 1 g fat (0 g saturated, 0 g trans) 85 g sugars 89 g carbs Worst Kids Meal in America: Chilis Pepper Pals Little Chicken Crispers with Ranch Dressing and Homestyle Fries 1,110 calories 82 g fat (15 g saturated) 1,980 mg sodium 56 g carbs Most kids, if given the choice, would live on chicken fingers for the duration of their childhood. If those chicken fingers happened to come from Chilis, it might be a pretty short life. A moderately active 8-year-old boy should eat around 1,600 calories a day. This single meal plows through 75 percent of that allotment. So unless he plans to eat carrots and celery sticks for the rest of the day (and we know he doesnt), find a healthier chicken alternative. Chilis Pepper Pals menu has one of the most extensive collections of kids entrees and side dishes in America, all of which prove considerably healthier than this fried chicken disaster. Eat This, Instead: Pepper Pals Grilled Chicken Platter with Cinnamon Apples 340 calories 8 g fat (2.5 g saturated) 755 mg sodium 38 g carbs The trouble with your kids waistlines isnt limited to fat-packed entrees and oil-dripping sides. Avoid any of these 14 worst healthy smoothies no matter how much your kid begs. As for food that you can feed your kids, check out our list of the best foods for kids. It should show you that the battle with the bulge isnt over yet. Provided by Men's Health >http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >1=31036 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Childhood obesity rates in America have tripled since 1980. This is due to genetics. >>http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >>1=31036 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This is due to genetics. Sure, as long as eating fries and burgers, and sugary drinks, and hot dog is a genetic issue.. >> http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >> 1=31036 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This is due to genetics. Genetic makeup of the population has changed such since 1980! Amazing! That turns science on its head. > >>http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237... > >> 1=31036 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Genetic makeup of the population has changed such since 1980! Amazing! That > turns science on its head. Yes ... always blame genetics, and of course, when science "proves" it we are instant converts! Science also gave us aerosol sprays that killed the ozone, anway.. "My kid is morbidly obese" ... "I'll get him the newest xbox, wii, pc, cellphone, playstation" and then the already over-indulged brat gets taken to Mc D's for comfort food. Genetics: 0 Poor Parenting: 1 Get them walking, cycling, RUNNING ..... get them out of the house for heaven's sakes! They don't need to sit 24/7 bad genes, if there are any can be really helped by a tad of physical activity. Sure, they won't become six pack -toting models overnight, but they will be healthier. >>> http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >>> 1=31036 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Genetic makeup of the population has changed such since 1980! Amazing! That > turns science on its head. Cloff! Tea on monitor... GMNT (then aged 5) ordered rare steak in pubs and restaurants. And fresh veg or salad rather than baked beans. He likes chips (fries), but has been known to abandon those that are not up to scratch. He always preferred real food to the crap on 'kids menus'. Give him a choice of the pub that offers home made lasagna and a decent steak, or McDeadstuff, he'll choose the pub.  SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! >>>> http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > choice of the pub that offers home made lasagna and a decent steak, or > McDeadstuff, he'll choose the pub. Hey! What do you mud islanders put in your baked beans? I was wondering if they were different than the ones we have in the US. >>>>> http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > What do you mud islanders put in your baked beans? I was wondering if > they were different than the ones we have in the US. Less of the mud, mate! We have rocks too, you know! ;) A pale and rather bland canned substitute. Having once had *real* baked beans made by the American mum of one of my sister's friends (long ago in my dim and distant childhood as an RAF brat), I have to say the two are as distantly related as Gekos and T Rex. I remember them being closer to a French Cassolet than Heinze Little Red Beans (hoc! Ptui!). Must dig out genuine USAian baked bean recipe.. Do you have a good one? BB seem to be a bit like Lancashire Hotpot over here - every family has its own, slightly different, method of doing it. SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! >>>>>> http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479> >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > BB seem to be a bit like Lancashire Hotpot over here - every family has > its own, slightly different, method of doing it. I have had cassoulet made in the area that made cassoulet famous, and I love it. But it is different than what we make here. American style baked beans are good, too. I don't have a real recipe - I just add whatever I'm in the mood for or that is handy. This recipe: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/dave-lieberman/baked-beans-recipe/index.html is close. I typically use already made canned baked beans, sauce and all, and dress them up. I throw them in the microwave or oven depending on what's happening. Bacon is best in them and we're talking the American style rashers or whatever. Small pieces cooked and drained added with chopped sauteed onion, sometimes molasses or brown sugar. Smoked sausage works too. > I have had cassoulet made in the area that made cassoulet famous, and I > love it. But it is different than what we make here. Cassoulet made with confit d'oie is the best... With added slivers of truffle... A couple of holidays on the Dordogne made me an addict, but these days I can't manage the fats, so I have to work on a leaner version... > American style baked beans are good, too. I don't have a real recipe - I > just add whatever I'm in the mood for or that is handy. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > all, and dress them up. I throw them in the microwave or oven depending > on what's happening. Lovely. That I can work with. > Bacon is best in them and we're talking the American style rashers or > whatever. Small pieces cooked and drained added with chopped sauteed > onion, sometimes molasses or brown sugar. What are American style rashers like? I want to know how they differ from things like yer syandard British short back and streaky, or the Scots Ayreshire bacon. > Smoked sausage works too. I can get a low fat version of a German smoked sausage that might do. Do you use red (kidney) beans, or white (haricot) type beans? Either works for me. I love both. SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! >> I have had cassoulet made in the area that made cassoulet famous, and >> I love it. But it is different than what we make here. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Do you use red (kidney) beans, or white (haricot) type beans? Either > works for me. I love both. Here's a guy who talks about American bacon vs other county's bacon: http://www.tonychor.com/archive/2006_08.html his commentary, along with a picture starts a little over halfway down the page. Personally, this is the way I *really* like bacon. :-) http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/2009/02/the_bacon_taked.html Truthfully, I hardly ever eat bacon and use it mainly for flavoring things like baked beans. I still have a package in the freezer I have been using for over a year. This kind: http://www.hormelfoods.com/brands/hormel/BlackLabelBacon.aspx I like red beans, kidney beans, white beans. Just no lima or butterbeans. Starting with canned baked beans or even plain pork and beans helps speed up the process, but isn't necessary - you can soak the beans and start from scratch if you like - and witnessing you in action, you'll probably start by growing them. :-) > Drink This, Instead: Strawberry Citrus Fruit Blast (small) <<snip>> > Eat This, Instead: Pepper Pals Grilled Chicken Platter with Cinnamon Apples Who ever wrote this list has never had a kid, or never had a kid that liked junk food and tried to make them eat healthy instead. What "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" 8 year old do you have that will drink and eat the above "alternatives"? > Provided by Men's Health Waste of time provided by Men's Health you mean... On Apr 29, 11:07 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote: > > Drink This, Instead: Strawberry Citrus Fruit Blast (small) > <<snip>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Waste of time provided by Men's Health you mean... No it's not a waste of time. The problem lies with parental control. Too many people today want to be friends with their children and f.ck the parenting stuff. The very idea of giving a young child a choice between healthier food and junk food at dinner is ludicrous. In a properly parented household it’s the healthier alternative of nothing. The kid won’t starve because like any other animal it will eat when it gets hungry enough. Sure the child will want to eat the junk in many cases but as a parent your job is to say "NO" at times. OMG, what a novel concept. Ragnar >On Apr 29, 11:07 am, The Master ><tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Ragnar What Ragtard is trying to say is that you are a lousy parent, TM. >> Drink This, Instead: Strawberry Citrus Fruit Blast (small) > <<snip>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" 8 year old do you have that will > drink and eat the above "alternatives"? Anyone for whom - modelling healthy eating choices is a part of every day life (and prefereably started when the kid was born rather than adopted later. An ounce of prevention...) - parents don't allow them to eat crap on a regular basis any more than they allow them to stick knives in their eyes. >> Provided by Men's Health > > Waste of time provided by Men's Health you mean... >> Who ever wrote this list has never had a kid, or never had a kid that >> liked junk food and tried to make them eat healthy instead. What [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > - parents don't allow them to eat crap on a regular basis any more than they > allow them to stick knives in their eyes. In other words, the ones that are already eating this way, and who never ate the other way... So what? It's easy as hell to not drink Coca-Cola, if you have never had it. However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, what then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken breast strips, he or she will ask what the white stuff is (the chicken) and refuse to eat it. Pointing to healthy alternatives the child will REFUSE to eat does no one any good! How about some alternatives that they might actually give a try? >>> Who ever wrote this list has never had a kid, or never had a kid >>> that liked junk food and tried to make them eat healthy instead. What [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > never ate the other way... So what? It's easy as hell to not drink > Coca-Cola, if you have never had it. It is easier. But it is not the end of the world for a child to change either. > However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, what > then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken breast > strips, he or she will ask what the white stuff is (the chicken) and > refuse to eat it. And thene what? Proceed to starve to death on thee spot? Assuming that you speak to your child anywa, you explain about healthy eating habits and learning new ways. You call upon the health classes that they have received in school (assuming that they dont think the teacher is a dork) or whatever. Then you do it. There was a generation of kids who started out not wearing bicycle helmets. They had to adjust. BFD. A human animal, in the absence of one food, will eat anotherl. Only if you pitch a battle or have other issues of weirdness going on in your family, they won't starve themselves. sh.t is hard. But it is better to do the hard thing of transforming eating habits (particularly when it is relatively easy as a young person) than have to deal with the conseuqences of a lifetime bad eating habits. > Pointing to healthy alternatives the child will > REFUSE to eat does no one any good! How about some alternatives that > they might actually give a try? for how long is a child going to starve himself? I have no objection to alternatives that will be tried. I saw nothing particularly interesting or disinteresting about the alternatives provided. But the tendency I see for parents to throw up their hands and say ... they won't eat! is a bunch of crap and nonsense. Most people eat some huge amount more than they need anyway. >> However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, what >> then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken breast [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > speak to your child anywa, you explain about healthy eating habits and > learning new ways. You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! Oh sh.t, you mean you are being serious? *shaking head* There have been studies that show that forcing a child to eat healthy food only re-enforces the idea that the food isn't good to begin with. Giving the child the choice of eating good food or not eat, many will pick to not eat or eat very little. However, what that does is make them associate healthy food with punishment. >>> However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, >>> what then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! I have one. If you don't treat your child like a moron, it is amazing what results you get. My five year old can make the right food choices. She is not a moron. She is not treated like a moron. > Oh sh.t, you mean you are being serious? *shaking head* What is scarier still is that you think your child is so weak and pathetic that he or she cannot manage something as simple and brainless as garbage in, garbage out. > There have been studies that show that forcing a child to eat healthy > food only re-enforces the idea that the food isn't good to begin > with. Did I say anything at all about forcing any eating? I did not. Please read for understanding. > Giving the child the choice of eating good food or not eat, > many will pick to not eat or eat very little. That's LOVELY! The child can make a *choice* abot eating based on whether or not they are hungry rather than wehether or not they can soothe their woes or whatever in a bucket of ice cream. Why do we think, in this society, that on the one hand one ought to eat healthily and on the other hand that if the child does not eat very much theere is something wrong? Every animal will not choose to starve. > However, what that > does is make them associate healthy food with punishment. Not unless the parent views it as punishment. >> You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! > > I have one. If you don't treat your child like a moron, it is amazing what > results you get. My five year old can make the right food choices. She is > not a moron. She is not treated like a moron. Then you just bore the sh.t out of her? Ever hear "ok, whatever you say mom"? Is she really making her own mind up, or are you making it up for her and she goes along with it just to get you to shut up? I know my children aren't morons. They are much smarter then most people give them credit for. But they also think they know better then stupid parents. Boring them to death only hurts your point. >>> You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mom"? Is she really making her own mind up, or are you making it up for > her and she goes along with it just to get you to shut up? If you think that healthy food is boring, then you'll never teach your kids to eat right. I guess you have to grow up before you can raise kids? > I know my children aren't morons. They are much smarter then most people > give them credit for. But they also think they know better then stupid > parents. Boring them to death only hurts your point. And it's the parent's job to teach them otherwise. I usually find your posting to be humorous and intelligent, I even agree with you from time to time. But of all the arguments I've seen from you in the long long time I've read them.. this is by far the dumbest position you have ever taken. Let the kids do what they want, because if not, they won't like it. That's not even sad parenting, it's no parenting at all.. > If you think that healthy food is boring, then you'll never teach your kids > to eat right. I guess you have to grow up before you can raise kids? You are assuming there is a problem with being fat. Typical arrogance, believing that anything not like you is bad. Yes, healthy food IS boring... If it wasn't, I'd be skinny. Rather, I like flavor, taste, and all that other stuff that you run away from screaming. I have a fantastic quality of life, enjoying what I eat rather then dreading it. >> If you think that healthy food is boring, then you'll never teach >> your kids to eat right. I guess you have to grow up before you can [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > screaming. I have a fantastic quality of life, enjoying what I eat > rather then dreading it. You assume wron when you assume that people who eat healthy food deem it boring OR dreadful. The notion that one is going to dodge the bullet presented by teh many, many inreased risk factors from being fat is happy horseshit. And people don't really have the right to do that to their kids. Feel free to do it to yourself. > You assume wron when you assume that people who eat healthy food deem it > boring OR dreadful. If you like food I think is boring, fine... I'm not calling you an ignorant slob for liking food I won't touch. But in the case of those that show rabid hate for the obese, the other way around cannot be said. >> You assume wron when you assume that people who eat healthy food >> deem it boring OR dreadful. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that show rabid hate for the obese, the other way around cannot be > said. You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to ww is called something something fat.ACCEPTANCE. But what that really seems to mean that facts and realities surrounding the *risks* of being fat need to be squelched at all costs. Things like not every fat person gets type 2 diabetes becomes an argument that a fat person's risk does not, in fact go UP for type 2 diabetes. Which is darn right weird. Will YOU get type 2 diabetes? Or joint issuses? Or heart disease? Stroke? Cancer? Liver disease? Gall bladder disease? Youo may not. But what a freaking long list! Not everyone gets these diseases and non-obese people do too are not really very cogent arguments about the risk that any individual will goes up dramatically depending on the level of obesity, the disease and other factors. Pretending that fact does not exist does not exists does not further your fat accepance cause, if you ask me. Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as such, I guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful fer pete's sake. > Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as such, I > guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful fer pete's > sake. If you consider that you own your own body, correct. If you consider that your body was a gift from God, then you are way off base. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 >> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as >> such, I guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be >> truthful fer pete's sake. > > If you consider that you own your own body, correct. If you consider > that your body was a gift from God, then you are way off base. I don't beleive in God. And actually, in so far as anyone else has the right to tell someone ELSE their rights, the person making the decision is the final arbiter. Our two cents don't matter. Now a person who DOES believe in God of the Christian persuasion, I do wonder how they can damage the temple... But not my busines.. >>> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as >>> such, I guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Now a person who DOES believe in God of the Christian persuasion, I do > wonder how they can damage the temple... But not my busines.. Wonder if when the Jews reached the "land of milk and honey" after the Exodus whether they continued to eat the same amount as they did with the omer of manna. >>> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as >>> such, I guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't beleive in God. Then you are correct, that is, you live under the erroneous assumption that you own your body. Have at it. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 >>>> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as >>>> such, I guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Then you are correct, that is, you live under the erroneous assumption > that you own your body. Please keep your religion in the PEW! > Have at it. >> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. And as such, >> I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you consider that you own your own body, correct. If you consider > that your body was a gift from God, then you are way off base. Please leave religion in the pew where it belongs. %A wrote: >You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to ww is >called something something fat.ACCEPTANCE. But what that really seems to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful fer pete's >sake. This issue is so fraught with pontification and moralizing on both sides. If fat people weren't automatically branded glutons who are so morally bankrupt that they can't control their eating, there would be no need for fat acceptance as a response. Orlando > %A wrote: >> You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Orlando On the flip side, if every person who attempted a conversation weren't disended upon as a person of raging hate, at lease insofar as the group were concerned, then there would be less dismissing as psychotic blathering. > %A wrote: >>You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to ww is [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Orlando Yes, much like branding of anyone with a physical disability. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 efacsimiles@gmail.com wrote: >Yes, much like branding of anyone with a physical disability. Being blind has made the serenity prayer vividly real to me. I can't change my lack of sight, but I can change how I behave and educate people about it. Of course, people are going to close up their little minds if it makes them feel good, but I can at least try. Orlando > efacsimiles@gmail.com wrote: >>Yes, much like branding of anyone with a physical disability. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orlando Peace is always in the effort, the trueness of the effort, and never in the results of it. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 > You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to ww You can blame the tolls for cross-posting. They get bored very easily and want to "stir up sh.t" as one of them once put it. is > called something something fat.ACCEPTANCE. But what that really seems to > mean that facts and realities surrounding the *risks* of being fat need to > be squelched at all costs. Squelched? I doubt we could, considering the anti-fat messages blared at us constantly, like propaganda in Orwell's _1984_. Things like not every fat person gets type 2 > diabetes becomes an argument that a fat person's risk does not, in fact go > UP for type 2 diabetes. I don't believe I've claimed that. However, fat doesn't CAUSE diabetes (it might even be the other way around); you still need to have the gene for that. Which is darn right weird. Will YOU get type 2 > diabetes? Or joint issuses? Or heart disease? A fat person's recovery rate is better than a thin person's when it comes to heart disease. > Stroke? Cancer? Less likely for the latter one. > Liver disease? > Gall bladder disease? Often brought on by certain commercial diet plans. And fat people are more likely to enroll in those plans. Youo may not. But what a freaking long list! Not > everyone gets these diseases and non-obese people do too are not really very > cogent arguments about the risk that any individual will goes up > dramatically depending on the level of obesity, the disease and other > factors. How dramatically? Is it due to lifestyle or fatness per se? How much ill health can be attributed to poor treatment by society in general? Not all, of course, but we won't know until the bigotry stops. And while you can't lose someone else's weight, you can protest ill treatment and fight perpetuation of stereotypes. Pretending that fact does not exist does not exists does not > further your fat accepance cause, if you ask me. Then it's a good thing I didn't ask you. There are already too many people who drop by just to say "This isn't helping your cause!" when they clearly have no intention of listening to us no matter what we say. > Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. Beg pardon, it wasn't my choice any more than I chose my height, race, or skin color. And as such, I > guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful fer pete's > sake. We are, as far as we can. But it's not what most people want to hear. Robin To the diet groups: apologies for the intrusion. >> You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to >ww [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Squelched? I doubt we could, considering the anti-fat >messages blared at us constantly, like propaganda in Orwell's 1984. Facts, not propaganda. >Things like not every fat person gets type 2 >> diabetes becomes an argument that a fat person's risk does not, in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >diabetes (it might even be the other way around); you still need to >have the gene for that. Prove this claim. >Which is darn right weird. Will YOU get type 2 >> diabetes? Or joint issuses? Or heart disease? > > A fat person's recovery rate is better than a thin person's >when it comes to heart disease. A fat person is much more likely to develop heart disease. >> Stroke? Cancer? > > Less likely for the latter one. Bullshit! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080217211802.htm "ScienceDaily (Feb. 18, 2008) Researchers from the University of Manchester, Christie Hospital and University of Bern in Switzerland have today published findings in the Lancet medical journal which further support the link between obesity and risk of developing cancer." >> Liver disease? >> Gall bladder disease? > > Often brought on by certain commercial diet plans. And fat people >are more likely to enroll in those plans. Horseshit! >Youo may not. But what a freaking long list! Not >> everyone gets these diseases and non-obese people do too are not [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >bigotry stops. And while you can't lose someone else's weight, you can >protest ill treatment and fight perpetuation of stereotypes. More fat acceptance propaganda. >Pretending that fact does not exist does not exists does not >> further your fat accepance cause, if you ask me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cause!" when they clearly have no intention of listening to us no >matter what we say. All you spew is propaganda. >> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. > > Beg pardon, it wasn't my choice any more than I chose my >height, race, or skin color. Propaganda, once again. >And as such, I >> guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > We are, as far as we can. But it's not what most people want >to hear. Bullshit! >Robin > >To the diet groups: apologies for the intrusion. You should put down the ham hock and beg them for help. >> You know what strikes me... The group that keeps getting xposted to >> ww [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > diabetes (it might even be the other way around); you still need to > have the gene for that. I was not speaking directly to you. But I have heard it iin the group. Let mee ask you. Do you have the gene? Do you realize that your risk of actually aquiring the disease increases with obesity? > Which is darn right weird. Will YOU get type 2 >> diabetes? Or joint issuses? Or heart disease? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Often brought on by certain commercial diet plans. And fat people > are more likely to enroll in those plans. Ok let's see - you have to have a gene for that - Recover faster... - unsubstantiated claim gthat gall bladder disease is brought on by diet plans. Says to me that no you don't want to accept that your risk of certain ilnesses go up from beinig obese. I guess you have made my point. > Youo may not. But what a freaking long list! Not >> everyone gets these diseases and non-obese people do too are not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How dramatically? > Is it due to lifestyle or fatness per se? What difference does it make? What do you want? You want any reason to remain fat? You don't need one. Say to yourself, I would rather be fat with liver or heart disease than skinny thin it. Then in my book you are square. > How much ill health can be attributed to poor treatment by > society in general? Not all, of course, but we won't know until the > bigotry stops. And while you can't lose someone else's weight, you can > protest ill treatment and fight perpetuation of stereotypes. Mount a study. In the meantime, all evidence suggests that obesity is not good for you. Can you type the words "obesity increases my risk for certain illnesses?" > Pretending that fact does not exist does not exists does not >> further your fat accepance cause, if you ask me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cause!" when they clearly have no intention of listening to us no > matter what we say. Well say something compelling, and I will listen. So far, there hasn't been much that is sensible coming out of the group. >> Fat people have every right to be fat. That is thei choice. > > Beg pardon, it wasn't my choice any more than I chose my > height, race, or skin color. Yes. It is. You can DO something about your weight. Zillions of people before you did. You may not want to choose to do so because it is a big fat PITA at first. You cannot choose to do something with your skin color. But you can choose to do something about your weight. That is a FACT. The number of people who really CANNOT do anything are so small as to make the likelihood that you ae one of them, along with the many otheer people who say the same, is very, very small. > And as such, I >> guess you could say that I, for one, accept fat. But be truthful >> fer pete's sake. > > We are, as far as we can. But it's not what most people want > to hear. I do not concur. But then, who cares. > Robin > > To the diet groups: apologies for the intrusion. >> If you think that healthy food is boring, then you'll never teach your >> kids >> to eat right. I guess you have to grow up before you can raise kids? > > You are assuming there is a problem with being fat. You just lost the argument. Even the most strident fat acceptance wackoids admit that there are problems with their chosen fatass lifestyles. Typical arrogance, > believing that anything not like you is bad. Yes, healthy food IS > boring... If it wasn't, I'd be skinny. Rather, I like flavor, taste, and > all that other stuff that you run away from screaming. I have a fantastic > quality of life, enjoying what I eat rather then dreading it. >I know my children aren't morons. They are much smarter then most people >give them credit for. So apart from your kids being fat, they are also mistaken for retards? >>> You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > people give them credit for. But they also think they know better > then stupid parents. Boring them to death only hurts your point. Okaaaaaay then. Next converation. >> Boring them to death only hurts your point. > > Okaaaaaay then. Next converation. So, did I win, or are you doing that just to make me shut up? Sort of proves my point, doesn't it? You are welcomed. >>> Boring them to death only hurts your point. >> >> Okaaaaaay then. Next converation. > > So, did I win, or are you doing that just to make me shut up? Sort of > proves my point, doesn't it? You are welcomed. You cannot even speak to your owwn child for fear that he or she would be bored by you. The whole dang thing is pointless so you might as well throw upyour hands and have another donut. You and I have nothing to say to each other if you think that you cannot even speak to your own child. > You cannot even speak to your owwn child for fear that he or she would be > bored by you. Did your kid try a salad right away instead of chicken nuggets? Then why bitch at me for objecting to such an idea when presented by a health magazine? I am saying that you are at the sit down restaurant, pull out the magazine with the article in question, and try to reason Junior into seeing things your way, isn't going to work. That's not how you got your kid to change, is it? That's not how you yourself changed, is it? Then why bitch at me for objecting to such an idea when presented by a health magazine? Again, you are welcomed. >> You cannot even speak to your owwn child for fear that he or she >> would be bored by you. > > Did your kid try a salad right away instead of chicken nuggets? Can you explain to me why you are hyper focused on this right away business? It sesems to me more than a reasobable exercise to the reader to determine the path from crap to alternatives. Maybe that is too much of a stretch for you. > Then why bitch at me for objecting to such an idea when presented by a > health magazine? > > I am saying that you are at the sit down restaurant, pull out the > magazine with the article in question, and try to reason Junior into > seeing things your way, isn't going to work. Well now damn, that;'s just dumb enough to even cross my mind that anyone would think that is a good idea. > That's not how you got your kid to change, is it? > That's not how you yourself changed, is it? > Then why bitch at me for objecting to such an idea when presented by a > health magazine? > > Again, you are welcomed. >> Did your kid try a salad right away instead of chicken nuggets? > > Can you explain to me why you are hyper focused on this right away business? I believe I have been abundantly clear time and time and time again. While I am talking about the lack of middle steps to get your child from point A to point B, the bashers complain that I don't know how to talk to my child. I am saying that article is of no use, since it is only a list of goals and offers no instruction on how to get there. And for that, I am attacked with rabid hate. Honestly, I expected nothing else. But please, don't act so shocked when I object... >>> Did your kid try a salad right away instead of chicken nuggets? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is only a list of goals and offers no instruction on how to get > there. And for that, I am attacked with rabid hate. You call that rabid hate? I am blown away by your sense that what you received was rabid hate. Given the cryptic nature of your responses "Reasone with an eight year old?" as a completely ridculous without further qualifications makes me disgree that you have been "abundantly clear." Peace out. > Honestly, I expected nothing else. But please, don't act so shocked > when I object... %A wrote: >You cannot even speak to your owwn child for fear that he or she would be >bored by you. The whole dang thing is pointless so you might as well throw >up your hands and have another donut. >You and I have nothing to say to each other if you think that you cannot >even speak to your own child. If he thinks he cannot speak to his own child, he's in dire need of your help. Why turn your back on him and ostracize him because he can no longer muster up the strength to be a parent? Such people need our encouragement and resources rather than our scorn. It's always easier to scorn than help. Orlando > %A wrote: >> You cannot even speak to your owwn child for fear that he or she [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Orlando I am the wrong person to seek help from, nor would he hear it if I offered, as evidenced by his responses. %A wrote: >On the flip side, if every person who attempted a conversation weren't >disended upon as a person of raging hate, at lease insofar as the group were >concerned, then there would be less dismissing as psychotic blathering. Let's be part of the solution. I haven't directed any hatred at you. In fact, I've agreed with most of your points, which indicates that we're beginning a fruitful conversation. It's easy for both sides on the fat issue to blame rather than help each other. Those who condemn the overweight need to realize that we're not fat because of insufficient will power, control over eating or understanding of health. On the other side, those of us who've begun turning our lives around and losing weight shouldn't get so cocky that we forget those who haven't yet gotten to the point of needing to take desperate measures, let alone figuring out which measures to take. Thue truth is that on South Beach, I eat lean protein and vegetables most of the time, supplemented with some fruit, whole grains and even an occasional "whatever meal" with refined carbs. My total cholesterol is down more than a hundred points. My fasting glucose is within a normal range. I no longer get gout attacks or debilitating knee pain. My blood pressure is at its lowest. I'm better able to walk without my feet hurting or running out of breath. But, as though all these health benefits weren't enough, I'm gradually attaining a balance between eating what I love ahdn what works best for my body. All in all, even though I can't always eat what I want, I can usually find something truly enjoyable. I don't count calories or worry about portion sizes, except with carbs and sweets, which I must curtail. The point is that losing weight consistently and healthily hasn't been as much of a drag as I thought it would be. But, I had to get away from the moralizers around me who told me I'd have to do without nearly everything and put up with persistent hunger in order to reach my goal. Fact is, I don't have to be hungry to lose weight. In fact, the more lean protein and veggies I eat, the fewer cravings I feel and the more weight I lose. Bringing this back around to our original topic, let's face it, the food industry is on the take; it wants to produce cheap foods that seem to satisfy broad desires for grease, salt, processed meat and sugar. Fast food restaurants make a profit because people continue patronizing them. They're not in the business of sadistically serving unhealthy food; they want to earn a profit. If millions of Americans wanted leaner meat that isn't fried, fewer carbs and no high fructose corn syrup, they'd get on the ball to provide that to people. So, why do we continue wanting these foods even though so many of us know how unhealthy they are? In many neighborhoods, those foods are the only convenient and affordable choices we have. It takes time and skill to cook. With both parents working in many families, no one has time to shop or cook. But, I think Americans could learn quite a lot from immigrant populations who, despite hectic work schedules and grinding poverty, often still find time and energy to cook in order to maintain vital cultural connections via food. That might be part of the problem here. We've forgotten food as culture, home cooking as an expression of family traditions and ethnic identity. We've bought the lie that food is just an engineered product intended to keep us on the go and working for the man. Food can mean so much more than the animalistic satisfaction of primal taste urges. While I'm not suggesting that we ignore what tastes good to us, I am suggesting that we're getting far more negative side effects from following the tastes encouraged by the food industry. Folks, stop trying to find the healthiest options on fast food menus, get back home and into your kitchens. Orlando > %A wrote: >> On the flip side, if every person who attempted a conversation [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Let's be part of the solution. What is the problem, exactly? Well I suppose that since I am posting from WW, that I should ignore the crap intended for ssfa. But it is interesting to me. > I haven't directed any hatred at you. > In fact, I've agreed with most of your points, which indicates that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > insufficient will power, control over eating or understanding of > health. Ok. What is the cause then? When I said to another that she did not choose to be fat any more than she chose her skin color, I am sorry, I cannot agree. One can change in their lives. That some people can eat cheesecake and never get fat is true. And for some of us, we could as kids but not as adults as the metabolism and activity levels slow. Unfortunate that we aren't all dealt the same cards. But something CAN be done about it in the vast majority of people. Now I would not contend that failure to do something about it is a matter of laziness or whatever. For anyone who wishes to change anything, the process is a journey. i did nnot quit smoking the first 10 or so times I tried. I did not loose weight the first time I tried. Each person takes that journey in their own way. >On the other side, those of us who've begun turning our lives > around and losing weight shouldn't get so cocky that we forget those > who haven't yet gotten to the point of needing to take desperate > measures, let alone figuring out which measures to take. Certainly not. My only objection is the rabid schlepping of falsehoods in order to remain confident in their current place. I like truthfulness. Call me nuts. And I am not sure where thee "needing to take desparate measures" comes from. Many people make change in their lives as a gradual, contemplative thing. Not a dramatic thing. >Thue truth > is that on South Beach, I eat lean protein and vegetables most of the > time, supplemented with some fruit, whole grains and even an > occasional "whatever meal" with refined carbs. My total cholesterol > is down more than a hundred points. My fasting glucose is within a > normal range. I no longer get gout attacks or debilitating knee pain. Yay for you! Pat yourself on the back. > My blood pressure is at its lowest. I'm better able to walk without > my feet hurting or running out of breath. But, as though all these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > something truly enjoyable. I don't count calories or worry about > portion sizes, except with carbs and sweets, which I must curtail. Whatever works. I know nothing about atkins. I would prefer the Zone to WW, myself. But preparing the carefully balanced meals is too fussy when you have 2 small kids. Just the education process of figuring out what to do is daunting. Then I think folks get discouraged that they "failed" with something. I don't think of it as failing. I think of it just like quitting smoking. Try one down. Wait and try again when it is right. > The point is that losing weight consistently and healthily hasn't > been as much of a drag as I thought it would be. But, I had to get [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the more lean protein and veggies I eat, the fewer cravings I feel > and the more weight I lose. Well whoevere told you those things had better not be a weight loss counselor or dietician! Though I do say that the first week or two I was hungry. There is a process of learning what keeps you satisfied as well as your mind and/or body adjusting to the new scene. > Bringing this back around to our original topic, let's face it, the > food industry is on the take; it wants to produce cheap foods that > seem to satisfy broad desires for grease, salt, processed meat and > sugar. Fast food restaurants make a profit because people continue > patronizing them. They're not in the business of sadistically serving > unhealthy food; they want to earn a profit. So? What does that have to do with it? We can choose not to patronize them. I actually let my kids eat McNasty every once in a blue mood. I beleive that you have to treat. I don't like the stuff. > If millions of Americans > wanted leaner meat that isn't fried, fewer carbs and no high fructose > corn syrup, they'd get on the ball to provide that to people. So, why > do we continue wanting these foods even though so many of us know how > unhealthy they are? Animals are not meant to live in the absence of competition and want. High calorie foods are desirable because animals are frequently in want. The high carb stuff is available... in the summer. Animals' jobs during teh growing season is to pack on fat for the winter. Thus the carb addiction you hear about. Eat the berries, the wild grains, the wild bagels :) so that you store fat for winter. We are no longer in want. We live in excess. But our bodies are still that of nature. > In many neighborhoods, those foods are the only > convenient and affordable choices we have. It takes time and skill to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > poverty, often still find time and energy to cook in order to > maintain vital cultural connections via food. Cooking just isnt that BFD. It is just another thing to do. I love it when people say I don't know how to do laundry. Geez you put the crap in one machine then the other. Same with cooking. You don't h ave to be Julia Child's to put dinner on the table. Any library hass probably 2 shelves of cookbooks. The internet has a zillion cooking resources. > That might be part of > the problem here. We've forgotten food as culture, home cooking as an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Folks, stop trying to find the healthiest options on fast food menus, > get back home and into your kitchens. Not bad advice. > Orlando > The point is that losing weight consistently and healthily hasn't > been as much of a drag as I thought it would be. But, I had to get away from > the moralizers around me who told me I'd have to do without nearly everything > and put up with persistent hunger in order to reach my goal. Fact is, I don't > have to be hungry to lose weight. In fact, the more lean protein and veggies I > eat, the fewer cravings I feel and the more weight I lose. Key points. In the case of the 2PD, the reduction of consumption is a slow progression from X lbs to 2 pounds at 1/4 to 1/2 pound intervals weekly. Although we have no evidences of the physical shrinking of the stomach, there is 100% in related experiences in feeling "stuffed" and uncomfortable when 2 lbs is reached and X is once again consumed. For me, this is my personal check, how do I feel after eating, at the end of the day, etc. As to the moralizers, as you shrink, you would expect to find acceptance, what you found, which is true in most situations, is people who, imo, are jealous. They either knowingly or unkowingly wish to sabotage your weight loss. Sad but true. Another check point. When I began the 2PD, I noticed Mu wifey began to up the portion amounts when I was served dinner. I had to take my plate and scrape off the excess. She was not happy. Soon, following, I just always left something on my plate. Not happy. Tough sh.t. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 > %A wrote: >> On the flip side, if every person who attempted a conversation weren't [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Orlando Wow! Looks like a sugar buzz to me. %A wrote: >I am the wrong person to seek help from, nor would he hear it if I offered, >as evidenced by his responses. I might seek help from you if I could reach you at a valid email address. Who's to say you couldn't help someone like him? Stranger things have happened when people start talking sincerely. Orlando > %A wrote: >> I am the wrong person to seek help from, nor would he hear it if I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orlando He doesnt want or need help, it seems to me. >>> However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, >>> what then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're funny... Reasoning with an 8 year old? ROTFLMAO! You know what, you don't have the advantage of my whole story. So why don't I share. Wen my son was born, I was a smoker who had quit smoking while pregnant. I resumed smoking nearly the millilsecond my son was done nursing. I was very large at that point having never had very good eating habits to begin with. Some years went by. And as they did, I had helped my son adopt some pretty crappy eating habits of his own. He did not eat "enouogh" so I made something else. Pickiest eatere you ever saw. Over time two things dawned on me. I was not healthy. I also, frankly, was not as attractive as I wanted to be. How can you be with that stinky thing hanging out of your face?!? Etcetera and so forth. Over quite a bit of time a journey followed which involved DH and I quitting smoking. We both slimmed down, me by Weight Watchers and then learning how to exercise with a personal trainer (whose patience I tested by being such a weenie) and him by exercising like a maniac and just eating nearly nothing but lean meat, fruit and veggies. I went from an 18 to a a 6. (I don't know what the weights are/were since weight has no meaning to me.) At the same time we looked at our son's diet and concluded it was crap. We floundered with what to do abouot it. We did not want to make him miserable! The in-laws would bich that he was not eating 'enough' and would do what I had... short order cook until DS could not stand thee sight of food, it caused such a ruckus of oooh and wringing of hands. Thi Was Just Wrong. We dutifully reported that DS's diet was crap and thata it was our fault and that we were cogitating. He would smile and patiently remind us that no one ever starved on brussel sprout island. Slowly and over time, with a couple of strng shoves at important points, we lessened the amount of crap food available ton the table. We spoke to him about our responsibility as parents to help him grow up to be the best him he could be. Usually did that NOT at meal time ... And then we smiled understandingly and said No we are sorry, we are not making you mac n cheese for the 100th time this week. Dinner tonight is meatloaf, mashed potatoes and peas, carrots and grapes. When you have finished the microscopic amounts of the things you don't like on your plate, you can have more potatoes. Would you like to try the peas or the grapes tonight for a new food? Now among his list of favorite foods: - beef terryaki - home made mac n cheese with whole wheat pasta - baked chicken fingers - salmon in pretty much any form you give it to him from grilled, loaf, patties... - peaches - bananas - corn (he does not fight veggies, but he doesnt really love them either) - home made baked fish sticks - yougurt smoothies with fruit... - cheese slices on whole wheat crackers - bagels with hummous (I bought hummus as some kind of mental collapse thinking that there was no WAY he would like it. But if he didn't at least I would. He loved it from the first try.) Oh I cannot even go on. We have a few cookbooks now that they get to pick what to cook out of, including "Deceptively Delicious" by Seinfeld's wife. .I never decieve them, though I do spin. The beets in the cake are to make it purple. My daughter has chosen to try tuna salad because the recipe is made inside a pipe crust shaped like a fish even though she does not like tuna.... And then there are things that they willingly accept though they dont care about one way or the other. I mix pureed cauliflower into the home made mac n cheese. It gives it a little extra tang that they like... And we DO eat crap too, just not as a regular event. We make cookies like everyone else, thoguh we don't expect dessert every night. When we have bbq's, we buy a bag of chips. We have treats that are exactly that, treats. And BOY the extra fun involved in the treat is so ... well.... fun! So obviously your guffaws of you can't be serious and whatnot are not very compelling to me. > Wen my son was born, I was a smoker who had quit smoking while pregnant. I > resumed smoking nearly the millilsecond my son was done nursing. I was very [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and veggies. I went from an 18 to a a 6. (I don't know what the weights > are/were since weight has no meaning to me.) My bet is your husband trimmed his eating to less than 2 pounds per day. > At the same time we looked at our son's diet and concluded it was crap. > The in-laws would bich that he was not eating 'enough' Typical complaint as you near and remain at 2PD and under. > Slowly and over time, with a couple of strng shoves at important points, we > lessened the amount of crap food available ton the table. We spoke to him [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for the 100th time this week. Dinner tonight is meatloaf, mashed potatoes > and peas, carrots and grapes. Better choices, perhaps, but in the long run, it is the amount not what you eat that will matter the most. > When you have finished the microscopic amounts > of the things you don't like on your plate, you can have more potatoes. > Would you like to try the peas or the grapes tonight for a new food? > And we DO eat crap too, just not as a regular event. We make cookies like > everyone else, thoguh we don't expect dessert every night. When we have > bbq's, we buy a bag of chips. We have treats that are exactly that, treats. > And BOY the extra fun involved in the treat is so ... well.... fun! Fun and food can be a dangerous mixture. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 > Slowly and over time, with a couple of strng shoves at important points, we > lessened the amount of crap food available ton the table. Sounds like a long road, probably made up by small steps along the way... Can you imagine if instead of step 1 to step 2 to step 3 to step 4, you went from step 1 to step 96 directly? This article in question tells you point A, then gives you point B, and says nothing of steps in the middle. Trying to do that right away will only HURT your goal, not help it. On Apr 29, 3:48 pm, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote: > > Slowly and over time, with a couple of strng shoves at important points, we > > lessened the amount of crap food available ton the table. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > says nothing of steps in the middle. Trying to do that right away will > only HURT your goal, not help it. To better protect our kids from these deadly restaurant foods. You can prepare these very recipes of your favorite restaurants at home. Checkout this website <a href="http://www.smash-marketing.com/ cooking&reciepes.htm> Recipes from your Favorite American Restaurants</ a> for some great recipe secrets. >>> However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, what >>> then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken breast [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > eat or eat very little. However, what that does is make them associate > healthy food with punishment. You know "Master"... you're a great exemple of what's wrong with America... If you can't teach an 8 years old to deal with things he/she isn't happy about, what kind of teenager/adult will that kid become? I love it, feed a kid junk food crap because they kid will REFUSE to eat anything else.. that's so sad it's funny. It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. >>>>However, in the real world, where kids already eat the junk food, what >>>>then? Give a chicken nugget eating child some grilled chicken breast [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. TM does not have custody of his fat kids. The court found him to be an unfit parent. His wife left him after she lost weight, gained self-esteem, then realized that he's scum and left him. > TM does not have custody of his fat kids. The court found him to be an > unfit parent. His wife left him after she lost weight, gained self-esteem, > then realized that he's scum and left him. "Truth hurts" - is that why you don't tell it? The ex-Mrs. Master took quite a drop in living standards when she got divorced. Besides, what does getting yourself eviscerated in order to conform to the beauty standards of the day have to do with self-esteem? I'd rather be fat. Robin >> TM does not have custody of his fat kids. The court found him to be > an >> unfit parent. > > "Truth hurts" - is that why you don't tell it? Anyone who has gone through a divorce can tell you, the mother is ASSUMED to be the better parent, and unless it can be proven that she abuses them or is an active criminal, she gets the children, even in Texas. I didn't try to fight her for custody for 2 simple reasons: 1) Making it more bitter and painful then it had to be would only harm the children. 2) I was going to lose anyhow. As it is, I get them most weekends, she keeps them only 5 or so weekends a year for special events. And considering she lives in one of the best school districts in the state of Texas, I felt it would cause more harm then good to be the a.shole that "truth" would have rather me be. > The ex-Mrs. > Master took quite a drop in living standards when she got divorced. Oh yeah... Even with child support taken from my check, I still make above the US median household income. On the other hand, my ex wife and her now husband each make about what my child support payment is, and thus accounts for 1/3rd of their total household income. > Besides, what does getting yourself eviscerated in order to conform to > the beauty standards of the day have to do with self-esteem? I'd > rather be fat. Weak minded people who base their self worth on the opinions of others... > You know "Master"... you're a great exemple of what's wrong with America... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. And that's fine and dandy. But that's not what the article was talking about Willow and you know it. You take your family out to eat, and your kid wants unhealthy choice number 4. You, as a reader of whatever magazine this "list" came from, gladly suggests healthy alternative 4 instead. What the f.ck will your kid do? I'm not talking about working with them, teaching them to make good choices over a period of time. I am talking about right then, when your kid wants the bad choice, as the first time you are going to do something about it, how would the result go? As I said, how about a choice they will actually try? >> You know "Master"... you're a great exemple of what's wrong with America... >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You take your family out to eat, and your kid wants unhealthy choice > number 4. You don't go out to eat where there is an unhealthy choice number 4. So your kids have never been there, and don't know that there is such a thing. > >> You know "Master"... you're a great exemple of what's wrong with America... > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So your kids have never been there, and don't know that there is such a thing. Kids find every possible bad choice because they are driven to it by mass marketing targeted at children. > Kids find every possible bad choice because they are driven to > it by mass marketing targeted at children. Quite so, sadly. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 > >> You know "Master"... you're a great exemple of what's wrong with America... > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So your kids have never been there, and don't know that there is such a thing. Kids find every possible bad choice because they are driven to it by mass marketing targeted at children. willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net wrote: >If you can't teach an 8 years old to deal with things he/she isn't happy >about, what kind of teenager/adult will that kid become? A teenager demanding that life make them happy all the time. >I love it, feed a kid junk food crap because they kid will REFUSE to eat >anything else.. that's so sad it's funny. If I had behaved that way during my childhood, I would have starved because my family was not about to feed me junk food on a daily basis. >It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. Agreed. So far, we've gotten no rational explanation why it's better to let a kid eat all the junk food they want. Orlando > willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net wrote: >>If you can't teach an 8 years old to deal with things he/she isn't happy >>about, what kind of teenager/adult will that kid become? > > A teenager demanding that life make them happy all the time. As a highschool teacher, I can tell you it's no pretty sight. >>I love it, feed a kid junk food crap because they kid will REFUSE to eat >>anything else.. that's so sad it's funny. > > If I had behaved that way during my childhood, I would have starved > because my > family was not about to feed me junk food on a daily basis. *grin* My mother never "forced" us to do anything, she just prepared dinner and if you don't want it, then you can prepare yourself something else, but there were only healthy foods in the fridge. We did have treats, but they were treats, occasional. You know, not only we survived, but we were the kids who got sick the less often in the entire neighborhood. We did rebel, throw fits, which Mom ignored, at worst putting us in our room while it lasted, and since it didn't lead anywhere, we stopped doing it fairly fast. >>It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Orlando I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Will~ willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net wrote: >As a highschool teacher, I can tell you it's no pretty sight. I can only imagine what you must go through, trying to explain to teenagers that they're not entitled to much of anything and should figure out how to give more and take less. >*grin* My mother never "forced" us to do anything, she just prepared dinner >and if you don't want it, then you can prepare yourself something else, but >there were only healthy foods in the fridge. I was a picky eater, to be sure, going through phases where I couldn't tolerate certain textures. But, I never parleyed my picky eating into a junk food preference. >We did have treats, but they were treats, occasional. You know, not only we >survived, but we were the kids who got sick the less often in the entire >neighborhood. Same here. >We did rebel, throw fits, which Mom ignored, at worst putting us in our room >while it lasted, and since it didn't lead anywhere, we stopped doing it >fairly fast. I didn't even bother throwing fits over food. Orlando >> willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net wrote: >>> If you can't teach an 8 years old to deal with things he/she isn't happy >>> about, what kind of teenager/adult will that kid become? >> A teenager demanding that life make them happy all the time. > > As a highschool teacher, I can tell you it's no pretty sight. Yeah... I've had to deal with far too many 14 YO's having a brat-tantrum that I'd grown out of by the time I was four. >>> I love it, feed a kid junk food crap because they kid will REFUSE to eat >>> anything else.. that's so sad it's funny. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and if you don't want it, then you can prepare yourself something else, but > there were only healthy foods in the fridge. No alternatives in our fridge. The choice was eat it or be hungry until the next meal. Occasional concessions were made: I wasn't forced to eat fried eggs, but no extra something else was offered, and Little Sis wasn't forced to eat cooked cabbage, but if sha wanted her portion made into salad, she did that herself. > We did have treats, but they were treats, occasional. You know, not only we > survived, but we were the kids who got sick the less often in the entire > neighborhood. Oddly, I see a parallel with my family here... ;) > We did rebel, throw fits, which Mom ignored, at worst putting us in our room > while it lasted, and since it didn't lead anywhere, we stopped doing it > fairly fast. Yup, before I was four. Mum took my shoes off, too, on the grounds that A: naked drumming heels made less noise, and B: I was likely to kick less and stop sooner as I wasn't about to hurt myself. Anything I broke of mine while in a tantrum was thrown out and not replaced. Anything I broke of someone elses was replaced out of whatever birthday and Christmas money I recieved BEFORE I got the rest to spend... >>> It has nothing to do with food, it has to do with actually raising a kid. >> Agreed. So far, we've gotten no rational explanation why it's better to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Me neither. I have always taken the lazy way out with my kid: nip the undesireable behaviour in the bud before it develops into a major problem, and it's easier to deal with. Result: a 14 YO who is waaaay bigger than I am that does what he's supposed to most of the time, and when he doesn't and is hauled over the coals for it, realizes that the resulting loss of priviledge is entirely his responsibility. And once he's over the sulk about it (takes about 20 minutes), usually apologizes without much promting (if any), and attempts to do better in future. Kids are kids. Some errors they repeat a time or two before the lesson sticks. Having to replace the coat they lost or the new shoes they destroyed playing footie in them rather than changing to trainers/soccer boots out of their hard won pocket money (has to be earned in this house!) so they can't afford the latest PS II game or pair of designer sunglasses they were saving for is a lesson worth learning. He almost lost the coming weekend's field training camp with the cadets last night by being stupid. Today he's a shining example of angelic helpfulness. When teased gently about this, he produced a rueful grin, and a 'Yeah, well... I'm stoooopid sometimes'. This lesson will stick for a good few months, I think. No, it really isn't about food. It's about teaching your kids to be people. They are apprentices of life and need help, guidance, a safe place to learn to correct errors, and the secure knowledge that they are loved. Teaching good eating habits that will give them a longer and healthier life starts when they are too tiny to know the difference between good nutrition and bad. It means teaching them to try all sorts of different things. It means giving them the skills to decline some things and accept others gracefully, based on experience and knowledge. Kids WILL eat the unfamiliar and the strange, and the stuff they find vaguely unpleasant when they know this won't happen every day, and when they know that someting is good for them. And when they see friends and family trying them. They need to learn to make choices when they are quite young. For little ones, offer broccoli or beans as a green veg, rather than copping out altogether. Once they make the choice, they are usually quite happy to eat a reasonable portion of the results of that choice. Now the GMNT is at the stage when he'll take a bite out of the broccoli and say, 'Hm... I let this cook too long!' and then finish it anyway, and choose the peppers, onion and tomatoes out of the roasted vegetables, but leave the courgettes and mushrooms rather than rejecting the whole lot out of hand. Yes, he'll eat junk food if he needs refuelling and there's no alternative, but on the other hand he still waxes lyrical about the hand-crafted pizza he had in Biaritz last year, and dwells on the way they were cooked in stone bottomed ovens and had charcoaly bits off the oven on the bottom. Horrid brat, teasing me like that! SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! >> I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. > > Me neither. I have always taken the lazy way out with my kid: nip the > undesireable behaviour in the bud before it develops into a major > problem, and it's easier to deal with. What my favorite parenting author calls "investment discipline." > Result: a 14 YO who is waaaay > bigger than I am that does what he's supposed to most of the time, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > apologizes without much promting (if any), and attempts to do better > in future. Sounds like my 8yo. And my 5yo for that matter. Freedom comes with responsibilty. You want to be able to play in the woods and not just thee yard. You are responsible to stay in earshot and stay out of the road. Demonstrate you are not responsible. you loose the freedom. It is not punishment. It is reality. > Kids are kids. Some errors they repeat a time or two before the > lesson sticks. Having to replace the coat they lost or the new shoes [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > He almost lost the coming weekend's field training camp with the > cadets last night by being stupid. I remember having my kids and 2 other kids. We were taking a trip to the beach (lake :( ). They were being total jerks, not listening to a single thing I said. I pulled the car over. I said to all four of them. It is unsafe for me to take 4 children who will no listen to my requests for safe and considerate behavior. I will not have you be unsafe. If you want to go to the beach, it is time to start listening to me. If any ignoring continues, we will turn around and go home. Understood? We pulled out, and the older boy of the other 2 kids immediately starts in on the previous behavior (unbuckling his belt). My son says Stop It. She is not kidding. Put your belt on now or she will bring us home. No she won't says the kid. YES SHE WILL says my son. They were angels for the rest of the day. >>> I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. >> Me neither. I have always taken the lazy way out with my kid: nip the [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > your belt on now or she will bring us home. No she won't says the kid. YES > SHE WILL says my son. They were angels for the rest of the day. We've done that before now... On the other hand, he's also been given free ice cream by the landlady (as a treat, with my permission granted first and out of his hearing) for behaving impeccably in a pub at lunch time, to the embarassment of another family with an older tantrum in tow. GMNT was two and a bit at the time. He was, I have to say, irritatingly cherubic as a very small, about 98% of the time. Boiled Goblin fits were few and far between and usually lasted less than half an hour, especially if ignored. Strangers would say 'He's on his best behaviour today', and I'd say, 'No, this is normal!' I admit it. I was spoiled as a mum! ;) SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! noway@nohow.com wrote: >Sounds like my 8yo. And my 5yo for that matter. Freedom comes with >responsibilty. You want to be able to play in the woods and not just thee >yard. You are responsible to stay in earshot and stay out of the road. >Demonstrate you are not responsible. you loose the freedom. It is not >punishment. It is reality. Excellent! I'll remember that if I ever have kids. >I remember having my kids and 2 other kids. We were taking a trip to the >beach (lake :( ). They were being total jerks, not listening to a single [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >your belt on now or she will bring us home. No she won't says the kid. YES >SHE WILL says my son. They were angels for the rest of the day. Good on you! I admire your parenting. Orlando >>> Who ever wrote this list has never had a kid, or never had a kid that >>> liked junk food and tried to make them eat healthy instead. What [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > to eat does no one any good! How about some alternatives that they might > actually give a try? WAHHHH It's not my fault!! Typical whining fatass American > WAHHHH It's not my fault!! So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for children, the expectation that the children in question will actually eat it is unreasonable? >> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! > > So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for > children, the expectation that the children in question will actually > eat it is unreasonable? What is unreasonable about chicken? >> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for >> children, the expectation that the children in question will actually >> eat it is unreasonable? > > What is unreasonable about chicken? In it's own right, nothing. But forcing a child to eat it when they don't want to, will make them associate chicken with punishment. We are talking about children who are used to Chicken McNuggets, and trying to make them eat better. >>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for >>> children, the expectation that the children in question will [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > In it's own right, nothing. But forcing a child to eat it when they > don't want to, will make them associate chicken with punishment. Nobody said anything about forcing. I hardly see "forcing" as the oppositie of not offering crap. > We > are talking about children who are used to Chicken McNuggets, and > trying to make them eat better. So... youo... what? Give up and decide the chicken mcnuggets are loverly? >> In it's own right, nothing. But forcing a child to eat it when they >> don't want to, will make them associate chicken with punishment. > > Nobody said anything about forcing. I hardly see "forcing" as the oppositie > of not offering crap. And that goes back to this list is the most help BEFORE the kid gets into the bad habbits. As a way to change behavior, it's grossly lacking. >>> In it's own right, nothing. But forcing a child to eat it when they >>> don't want to, will make them associate chicken with punishment. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > into the bad habbits. As a way to change behavior, it's grossly > lacking. Yeah it would be nice if we were all perfect out of the gate. But that is not in the cards. So what.... you decide to throw up your hands and abdicate your responsibility to your child because you f.cked up in the first place? Great f.ck up once then follow up with a willful f.ck up because I Cannnnnnnn't. They woooooooon't. I can't talk tot hem. Blahdeeblah %A wrote: >Yeah it would be nice if we were all perfect out of the gate. But that is >not in the cards. So what.... you decide to throw up your hands and abdicate >your responsibility to your child because you f.cked up in the first place? >Great f.ck up once then follow up with a willful f.ck up because >I Cannnnnnnn't. They woooooooon't. I can't talk tot hem. Blahdeeblah I completely agree. I think many parents allow their children to eat badly out of sheer sloth and selfishness. Rather than take time to cook healthy food or at least seek it out in public, they just go for whatever's conveniently available. This fosters a mentality that food is purely intended for a feeling of convenient nourishment; never mind that unhealthy food is anything but nourishing. Fast food does not make memories. I've never heard anyone wax nostalgic about the calory-laden foods enumerated in the original article. If one is going to remember certain childhood comfort foods fondly, let them at least be home made from ingredients actually found in nature. Orlando > I think many parents allow their children to eat badly out > of sheer sloth and selfishness. Rather than take time to cook healthy food or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > one is going to remember certain childhood comfort foods fondly, let them at > least be home made from ingredients actually found in nature. I firmly believe that many parents, who are obese, don't want constant reminders of their obesity from slim, healthier children. It is where the phrase "eat your own" comes from. Signaturehttp://tinyurl.com/5gt7 >>> In it's own right, nothing. But forcing a child to eat it when they >>> don't want to, will make them associate chicken with punishment. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And that goes back to this list is the most help BEFORE the kid gets into > the bad habbits. As a way to change behavior, it's grossly lacking. Come on, the list recommends that a healthy alternative is a 350 calorie drink containing 85 grams of sugar. The article was written by a complete moron. >>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for >> children, the expectation that the children in question will actually >> eat it is unreasonable? > > What is unreasonable about chicken? Well, they don't pick up after themselves and they are forever crossing the road. But, they aren't all bad - they taste like alligator. >>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well, they don't pick up after themselves and they are forever > crossing the road. My favorite parenting author calls them "uncivilized bozos.' That's what they gave them parents for. But they sure as hell would not have the freedom outside without Mom if they were in the road. > But, they aren't all bad - they taste like alligator. >>>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> But, they aren't all bad - they taste like alligator. Chickens are uncivilized? I learn something new every day! >>>>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>>>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I learn something new every day! I am an idiot! >>>>>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>>>>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I am an idiot! Well, at least you're not an uncivilized chicken. >>>>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>>>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Chickens are uncivilized? Yes. And mad, and bloody-minded, and as stuborn as hell. Oh, and unbelievavbly stupid. The ones that lived at the bottom of our garden for several years were, anyway. > I learn something new every day! ;) SignatureKate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore! >>>>>>> WAHHHH It's not my fault!! >>>>>> So you believe that when posting a list of alternative foods for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > ;) Sounds like my ex-girlfriend... :) ROTFL Hoots, you made my day!! >> What is unreasonable about chicken? > > Well, they don't pick up after themselves and they are forever crossing > the road. > > But, they aren't all bad - they taste like alligator. >>>> Who ever wrote this list has never had a kid, or never had a kid >>>> that liked junk food and tried to make them eat healthy instead. What [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Typical whining fatass American It's sooo haaaaaaarrrrddd. From the original post: > Luckily, Eat This, Not That! is here to help you order smart > and sensible food for your children when youre eating away > from home. Skip these dietary disasters to help keep your > kids lean, strong, and healthy. From this, it is clearly implied, but I admit not flat out stated, that this list is intended for parents to pick healthy alternatives for their children. That is, you are already at On the Border, Ruby Tuesday, Romanos Macaroni Grill, etc. And your goal is to pick for your child a healthy alternative to their first choice. Now if your kids already eat this way, great. But for the rest of us, who's children don't, this list is utterly useless since it's a list of foods that our children will not currently eat. As a result, I have been accused of not knowing how to talk to my children. If I had the luxury of months to work with my child, help them make good choices, blah blah blah... But that is clearly not the case. The waitress is on her way back to the table with the drinks, and I have to talk junior into having the Home Fries instead of the Smiley Face Potatoes... That is CLEARLY what this article is trying to provide for, and it CLEARLY fails at it's goal. Why am I hyper focused on "right a way" results? Because I see the waitress walking to my table, that's why. That IS the situation this article was written for. I'm just trying to apply it the way it was intended, and I'm flamed for it... Go figure... > From the original post: >> Luckily, Eat This, Not That! is here to help you order smart [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of foods that our children will not currently eat. As a result, I > have been accused of not knowing how to talk to my children. For the rrecord, you were the one who countered that if one spoke to their children, they would become bored and thus not listen. That was all you. > If I had the luxury of months to work with my child, help them make > good choices, blah blah blah... But that is clearly not the case. You call working with your kids on health a luxury? %A wrote: >You call working with your kids on health a luxury? He clearly has trouble working on health with his kids. How is your criticism supposed to help him? Or, do you care more about criticizing him in order to make yourself feel good rather than his kids? Orlando > %A wrote: >> You call working with your kids on health a luxury? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orlando I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I dont know him well enough to say he has trouble working on health with his kids. His cryptic responses could mean anything. Far be it from me to try to "help" him with anything unless he deems me someone he is interested in being helped by. We had a spirited conversation about a stupid article in a stupid magazine. Viva la net! %A wrote: >I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I dont know him well >enough to say he has trouble working on health with his kids. His cryptic >responses could mean anything. Far be it from me to try to "help" him with >anything unless he deems me someone he is interested in being helped by. Your opinions seemed to be delivered in a very spirited manner. Are you sure you're not getting worked up over this? >We had a spirited conversation about a stupid article in a stupid magazine. >Viva la net! We're really talking about much more than a stupid article; we're talking about what food means to us and how parenting influences food choices. We're discussing our perpetuation of the sedentary culture that has made today's kids so obese. I think we're talking about important stuff here. Orlando > http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100237479>1=31036 > The Worst Restaurant Foods for Kids > By Dave Zinczenko and Matt Goulding, Men's Health > Men's Health This is an idiotic article which basically advocates that junk food should be replaced with junk food that has less fat and smaller portions, but is still high in calories. It propagates the misconception that all trans-fat is bad, even if it is natuarlly occuring in milk products and not the result of partial hydrogenation of polyunsaturates. > Drink This, Instead: Strawberry Citrus Fruit Blast (small) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 85 g sugars > 89 g carbs Regardless of what this is intended to replace, it's completely, utterly moronic to recommend that kids should quaff a drink that contains 350 calories and 85 grams of sugar. This drink might be appropriate for an adult who's just raced a half marathon. |
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