 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsLow CarbWeightWatchers WeightAdviser.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2004PSMF-Protein Sparing Modified Fast question!?!
I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins alone? Do i have to make sure i get zero carbs and zero fats? or is a little bit of fat ok? and how much? As i understand,i can only get 600-800 calories daily on this diet.Is it ok to get them from lean meats, or do i have to do the shakes? I also hear that using this approach will yield about 2/3lbs fat loss daily.Is this correct? Is excercise essential when following such a regimen? or optional...and how much should i do? Before I start this regimen,i will make an appointment with my doctor and make sure that I be medically supervised for the entire time(blood checkups,electrolyte checkups,etc...) to make sure everything is going smoothly. And i also understand i will need potassium,magenesium supplements,and also about 4-5g of salt daily+some sort of sugar-free fiber supplement.But how long is it safe to stay on this diet for? After I get to my goal weight,is it advisable to go onto maintenace using a low-carb diet approach?I have been on low-carb before and I don't mind it at all,I actually didn't get annoyed or felt sick(and please don't tell me why did i stop,I just want to try the PSMF because it's a more aggresive fat-loss regimen). Is there anything else I should know that I maybe have missed to address? Please I don't want anyone telling me i won't learn anything using this diet,or give me another healthier approach,etc...I just came here to get some answers and not a lecture.I don't mean to sound mean,but sometimes i get annoyed when posting questions then people waste your time with something that you didn't even want to hear.Your feedback will be greatly appreciated,thanks. By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/21-237659.html couldn't help myself :) ... here is the controled carbohydrate approach you are seeking John > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) Sorry. You are going to get a lecture in hopes that you will learn something from it. But I doubt it. Your attitude is "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts." We deal only in facts here. Start an exercise program and eat moderate amounts of a wide variety of high-fiber low fat foods. > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) > Sorry. You are going to get a lecture in hopes that you will > learn something from it. But I doubt it. Your attitude > is "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts." We > deal only in facts here. Start an exercise program and eat > moderate amounts of a wide variety of high-fiber low fat foods. then maybe you should get your head out of your a.s and read up on the FACTS rgarding a PSMF, you stupid bitch. Lyle >>I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start >>I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> >>By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) >then maybe you should get your head out of your a.s and read up on the >FACTS rgarding a PSMF, you stupid bitch. > >Lyle ...er, what *he* said!!! Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com > Sorry. You are going to get a lecture in hopes that you will > learn something from it. But I doubt it. Your attitude > is "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts." We > deal only in facts here. Start an exercise program and eat > moderate amounts of a wide variety of high-fiber low fat foods. <snipped> facts? the fact is he should avoid high fat foods? wtf? >facts? the fact is he should avoid high fat foods? > >wtf? Patricia appears to be fat-phobic. The low-fat faddists have had their day, and their ideas are headed for the dustbin of history, where they belong. I've lost over 100 lbs on a diet that happened to be high-fat at first. I've had to reduce the fat percentage as I lost weight, in order to keep the optimal calorie level (ah, there's the rub -- CALORIES DO COUNT!). Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com >Your attitude >is "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts." We >deal only in facts here. Pot. Kettle. Black. If you want to promote an unnatural and unhealthy low-fat diet, do it the low-fat newsgroups. I've lost over 100 lbs on low-carb, and have kept it off now for a little over a year. Oh, I forgot, to you low-fat faddists, that's 12.5 gallons of water. Note: The *only* thing that Ornish's 'research' shows is that exersize is so good for you that it can actually reverse some of the damage done by his diet. For all that, he recommends the wrong kind of exersize anyway -- lifting weights is much better for you, but his diet makes that too difficult. Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com You would have to reduce your intake by 7000 calories per day to lose 2 pounds in a day. Make that 10,500 to lose 3 pounds per day. That is just out of the realm of possibility unless you are eating 20,000 calories per day, which is also very unlikely. Eating so little, 600-800 calories per day is just plain NOT good for your heart either. Eat 10x your current weight, and safely lose 2-3 pounds per week (depending on your current weight and how much you have to lose) Why not make permenant sensble changes in your eating and in your exercise habits? People who do such drastic low calorie type "diets" almost ALWAYS gain back what they lose and more. You have to do something forever. Melissa 140/132/125 > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) >You would have to reduce your intake by 7000 calories per day to lose 2 >pounds in a day. Make that 10,500 to lose 3 pounds per day. That is just out [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Eating so little, 600-800 calories per day is just plain NOT good for your >heart either. Why is that? The heart is not picky about where it gets its calories from. Straight fat freshly released from your blubber will make its day. Proton Soup >I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start >I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins >alone? Do i have to make sure i get zero carbs and zero fats? or is a >little bit of fat ok? and how much? As i understand,i can only get >600-800 calories daily on this diet.Is it ok to get them from lean >meats, or do i have to do the shakes? It sounds to me as if you are looking to do a "home version" PSMF, since if you were actually doing Opti-Fast or any of the other commercial programs you wouldn't be looking at options. In the Opti-Fast program program you are given 5 packets per day (around 750 calories, I forget the exact number) of powder (Vanilla, Chocolate, Cherry, Orange) to be mixed with your choice of zero-calorie drink (water, diet soda, etc.) to make "shakes". The powder gets essentially all its protein from egg whites, and it has nutritional supplements as well. There is essentially no fat or carbs, so it DOES qualify as a lowcarb diet. The shakes do not supply enough potassium, so you require a PRESCRIPTION strength Slow-K of, as I recall, 600mg three times per day. You are also required to get a regular blood test (every other week, as I recall) to make SURE your potassium is in the normal range. It's not a permanent WOE (way of eating), but there HAVE been people who start out with a PSMF and then switch over to a lowcarb diet (such as Atkins) when they get closer to their desired weight. In addition to the powder/shakes, you have the option to add a sort of chicken broth twice a day. As I recall it has 25 calories, so you had an allowed total of 50 calories from the "soup". >I also hear that using this approach will yield about 2/3 lbs fat loss >daily.Is this correct? That's too high to be a TYPICAL weight loss, though there may be some people who can achieve it. More typical values would be 3/7 pound per day for women and 4/7 pound per day for men, i.e. women tend to lose 3 pounds per week and men tend to lose 4 pounds per week. Just like on other lowcarb diets, there is some extra water loss in the beginning as your glycogen stores are used up, but this varies a lot from person to person anyway. Still, 2/3 pound (fat) means a deficit of roughly 2400 calories. =If= you have been holding steady at 3200 calories per day (and some people are heavy enough or exercise enough to do this), dropping to 800 calories/day could lead to that amount of weight loss. >Is excercise essential when following such a regimen? or >optional...and how much should i do? Let's just say it is really, really helpful. Most people starting a PSMF are quite out of shape, so the TYPICAL exercise begins at a low level - say, a 30-minute walk once per day. Almost everyone can do that, even at the start. As you go through the program, the amount of exercise should increase. >Before I start this regimen,i will make an appointment with my doctor >and make sure that I be medically supervised for the entire time(blood >checkups,electrolyte checkups,etc...) to make sure everything is going >smoothly. And i also understand i will need potassium,magenesium >supplements,and also about 4-5g of salt daily+some sort of sugar-free >fiber supplement.But how long is it safe to stay on this diet for? The typical Opti-Fast program runs for 20 weeks, but that is not the maximum allowed. >After I get to my goal weight,is it advisable to go onto maintenace >using a low-carb diet approach? I have been on low-carb before and I >don't mind it at all,I actually didn't get annoyed or felt sick (and >please don't tell me why did i stop,I just want to try the PSMF >because it's a more aggresive fat-loss regimen). Quite a lot will depend on your individual body chemistry. For example, some people see a big decrease in hunger when they go on lowcarb. Others (such as me, unfortunately) do not. If you were one of the fortunate ones who saw a decrease in hunger, switching from a PSMF to Akins would probably be painfree and effective. You would be going from 800 calories of protein to slightly larger amounts of protein with some small amounts of carbs and fats, gradually raising it to somewhere around 1600-2000 calories total. You would not want to rush in to suddenly eating lots of fat (which Atkins allows), but a gradual transition. >Is there anything else I should know that I maybe have missed to >address? Opti-Fast required a FULL physical exam prior to starting, and the data needed to be reviewed by someone familiar with the dangers of a PSMF before you began. They also gave you a card to carry in case you were, say, in an accident and taken to an emergency room because your blood chemistry and such might not be typical. Sort of like a medic-alert bracelet to let attending physicians know why you were atypical in some respects. >Please I don't want anyone telling me i won't learn anything using >this diet,or give me another healthier approach,etc...I just came here [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) Thanks Harold for that information.I just have a few questions.Firstly,I checked the opti-fast website and there are no clinics in my area or anywhere close,i live in Canada.Anyways,how would I be able to find a doctor who I can see regarding this? What method should i use finding one? Also,since the opti-fast shakes are so expensive,do you know of any other alternatives that are just as effective? What about Medifast,or HMR,I hear they are similar. For excercise,can I do half hour cardio per day,and weight lift for half hour like 5 times a week,or is that too much? Thanks again Harold for all that info.Greatly appreciated. Mack, as I said, I lost a lot of weight on this diet. I used medi-fast and later bought some opti-fast. I exercised a lot. I started by only being able to walk a block but ended up running 6-7 miles each day. I never felt bad. I also started weight training to keep some muscle tone but it's not possible to gain muscle on such a regimen. Or so I was told. I can't help with the doctor question because I did this through my insurance. I will say you must see a doc while doing it. The blood work is essential. Potassium is required and be aware that gall bladder complications are common. There is a medication I took to prevent the gall bladder problems but I can't remember what it is. I did it in 1997 ( I think) and kept it off until 2002. Hope this helps a little.  Signature-Bear Grrrrrrrrr :o) 297/271/210 Highest weight 353 http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/index.html > Thanks Harold for that information.I just have a few > questions.Firstly,I checked the opti-fast website and there are no [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks again Harold for all that info.Greatly appreciated. >Thanks Harold for that information.I just have a few >questions.Firstly,I checked the opti-fast website and there are no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >so expensive,do you know of any other alternatives that are just as >effective? What about Medifast,or HMR,I hear they are similar. I gave information about Optifast because I was familiar with it. I am not familiar enough with the others to be able to give advice about them. I have heard that Medifast is similar, but I've never seen a comparison. I also don't know enough about the Canadian medical system to be able to give specific advice. I understand it can take a long time to get an appointment for non-emergency reasons (and I'd certainly think a PSMF would be considered non-emergency), but how long it would take and what referrals you would have to obtain - I don't know. Perhaps the Canadian health system will not support a voluntary PSMF at all. What you need to do is contact THEM and find out. >For excercise,can I do half hour cardio per day,and weight lift for >half hour like 5 times a week,or is that too much? A PSMF is designed to give you just enough protein that your body doesn't cannibalize it's already-existing muscle tissue to feed itself. It is NOT designed to give you the additional protein you would need to significantly INCREASE the amount of muscle you have. I do not know what sort of adjustments to the diet would be required to support weight lifting. In addition, lowcarb diets IN GENERAL make weight training difficult. Weight training uses quick bursts of energy, and carbohydrates are much better at providing that. So while you appear to be trying to get the best of several different plans, I think you will find that they do not work that well together. One thing you might want to investigate is a Cyclic Ketogenic Diet (CKD). This is lowcarb part of the time but also includes carb-up days to help support a weight training program. While not an expert, I do know that muscles need a recovery day between workouts. If you want to do weight training 5 days a week you would need to split your muscle groups into 2 sections. You might exercise leg and back muscles on MWF, for example, and do arm/chest/stomach on TuTh. That gives muscles in each group time to recover. The next week you could do the arm/chest/stomach on MWF and the leg/back on TuTH. That lets you work out in consecutive days but gives the muscles the time they need to rebuild. But I'm not an expert on weight training. I see you've crossposted this to a weight training group, so perhaps one of them can advise you on setting up a M-F program, and perhaps someone there is more familiar with a CKD instead of a PSMF. > What about Medifast,or HMR,I hear they are similar. HMR is similar to Opti-fast. For full details on my success with HMR, see my web page. Signature¤bicker¤ 263/163 alt.support.diet@brianandrobbie.com BP: 130/80 -> 100/60 See web site for Total Cholesterol: 256->200 before and after photos. Waist: 46 -> 34 http://brianandrobbie.com BF%: 39% -> 16% > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins > alone? Um...doesn't the term 'protein-sparing' mean little to _no_ protein? >> I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start >> I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins >> alone? > >Um...doesn't the term 'protein-sparing' mean little to _no_ protein? Um... No. > >> I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > >> I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Um... No. Then I'm confused. 'Sparing' essentially means 'not' or 'little'. If I'm 'sparing the rod', I'm 'not' physically disciplining my child. If I'm eating 'sparingly' of fat, I'm eating 'little' fat. So it would follow that 'protein-sparing' means sparing protein - not eating it or eating sparingly of it. But hey - exceptions and oxymorons are rampant in the English language anyway, so I guess it makes sense, <g>. It spares the protein in your muscles from being depleted. What you are describing would be a spare protein diet, a diet that is spare in protein. In news:CP2_b.4593$ks2.1336@bignews5.bellsouth.net, Stargazer <me@privacy.net> stated ||| Um...doesn't the term 'protein-sparing' mean little to _no_ protein? || [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | oxymorons are rampant in the English language anyway, so I guess it | makes sense, <g>. > It spares the protein in your muscles from being depleted. What you are > describing would be a spare protein diet, a diet that is spare in protein. Gotcha - thanks (to both you and Howard) for the explanation! ;) > > >> I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > > >> I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Then I'm confused. Clearly. > 'Sparing' essentially means 'not' or 'little'. If I'm > 'sparing the rod', I'm 'not' physically disciplining my child. If I'm > eating 'sparingly' of fat, I'm eating 'little' fat. So it would follow that > 'protein-sparing' means sparing protein Meaning not losing it during the diet. > - not eating it or eating sparingly > of it. But hey - exceptions and oxymorons are rampant in the English > language anyway, so I guess it makes sense, <g>. SignatureWill Brink http://www.brinkzone.com/ http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/ http://www.aboutsupplements.com/ >Um...doesn't the term 'protein-sparing' mean little to _no_ protein? No. It means weight loss with minimal lean tissue loss. Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com Mack <powerdeals2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message c3447236.0402211351.7b9b4c3c@posting.google.com [...] > smoothly. And i also understand i will need potassium,magenesium > supplements,and also about 4-5g of salt daily+some sort of sugar-free FWIW, 4-5g of salt per day is about twice the recommended daily average (2400mg). Signature"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'." Bob Hawke I lost my original 143 pounds on a PSMF. There was no *food* on that diet. It consisted of shakes and soups and some powdered eggs you could nuke. It was 800 calories a day. I lost the 143 in 6 months. I've never heard of doing it with real food. Also, I had a weekly check in with a doctor or NP. Signature-Bear Grrrrrrrrr :o) 297/271/210 Highest weight 353 http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/index.html > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > By the way,I am 5"10, 250 pounds, 25 years of age :) >I lost the 143 in 6 months. I've never heard of >doing it with real food. So, it took me 3 years to lose 100 lbs. Big deal. The important part is that I continue to keep it off, and I have improved my health in the process. I did it with real food, too. Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com >>I lost the 143 in 6 months. I've never heard of >>doing it with real food. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I did it with real food, too. I don't think Bear's arguing with anyone or submitting his diet as the One and Only Way to go, Howard. He's just offering himself as an example of someone who lost weight on a protein sparing fast plan. Yeesh. Defensive much? Dawn >Yeesh. Defensive much? Nope. Just a fan of Real Food. Like meat, eggs, fish, veggies, nuts, and fruit. Works better than fake food, because you don't have to "get off" the diet after you've lost down to goal. Howard@FreshCoffee.biz http://freshcoffee.opportunity.com http://freshjava.opportunity.com > >Yeesh. Defensive much? > Nope. Just a fan of Real Food. There is a difference between being a "fan" and religious fanaticism. > Works better than ... Judgementalism and hubris are sure-fire signs of such religious fanaticism. Signature¤bicker¤ "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant limitations on their ability to enjoy something that they wish. > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast, Then consider something else, like a life long exercise and nutrition plan. You wont get much support here (mfw) for the above. >but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins > alone? Do i have to make sure i get zero carbs and zero fats? or is a > little bit of fat ok? and how much? As i understand,i can only get > 600-800 calories daily on this diet.Is it ok to get them from lean > meats, or do i have to do the shakes? I assume this would be a medically supervised thing? If so, ask the people that woild be supervising you vs a news group. Good luck. SignatureWill Brink http://www.brinkzone.com/ http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/ http://www.aboutsupplements.com/ > I am considering the protein sparing modified fast,but before i start > I have a few questions.Firstly,do all my calories come from proteins > alone? Do i have to make sure i get zero carbs and zero fats? or is a > little bit of fat ok? and how much? As i understand,i can only get > 600-800 calories daily on this diet.Is it ok to get them from lean > meats, or do i have to do the shakes? You can do a PSMF with food just as easaily as with shakes. Probably better in a sense b/c the food will have vitamins and minerals that the shakes might not. AS far as fat and carb content, it is generarlly minimized. PSMF is typiocally 1.5 g protein/kg ideal bodyweight (used as a proxy for lean body mass) with some veggies (you might also want to add a fiber supplement). I'd modify that further and get at least 6X1 grams fish oil caps per day (to cover EFA requirementss). > I also hear that using this approach will yield about 2/3lbs fat loss > daily.Is this correct? It depends on starting weight and overall metabolism. 1/2-2/3rd lb of fat is a rough average. > Is excercise essential when following such a regimen? or > optional...and how much should i do? At least one study suggested that exercise (cardio) in addition to a PSMF caused a greater reduction in metabolic rate than occurred without exercise. Frankly, when you've already got nearly a 2000 cal/day defici, exercise isn't going to contribute that much. Exercise will be more important when you move into a maintenance phase. A lot of it would depend on whether or not you were already on an exercise program at this point. If so, I'd say try to maintain it. If not, I'm not sure PSMF is a good time to start one. > After I get to my goal weight,is it advisable to go onto maintenace > using a low-carb diet approach?I have been on low-carb before and I > don't mind it at all,I actually didn't get annoyed or felt sick(and > please don't tell me why did i stop,I just want to try the PSMF > because it's a more aggresive fat-loss regimen). Go to the diet that you think you can stick to in the long-term after the PSMF. AS long as you're getting sufficient protein, EFA's and plenty of high fiber veggies (for both fiber and nutrient content), you're not missing out on anything nutritionally (and none of the asd nitwits can prove the essentiality of carbohydrates). If you want to add exercise of any intensity to your regimen after the PSMF, you'll need to add more carbohdyrates back to your diet. Lyle > You can do a PSMF with food just as easaily as with shakes. Probably > better in a sense b/c the food will have vitamins and minerals that the > shakes might not. So Lyle,tell me this,if i were to eat about 700-800 calories of chicken breast,tuna,or any other source of protein only from food,some high fiber veggies,it would be ok,just as if i'm doing the shake fast,but with more minerals/vitamins? I'd also be taking multivitamins daily,some pottasium and magnesium supplement,sugar free fiber supplement,and fish oil caps for EFA's.I'd also be medically supervised while doing this with bloodtests,electrolyte tests,etc.... weekly or bi-weekly. So will using this approach for about 5 months be ok if i can handle it? I'm about 250 pounds,5'10 male,25 years of age.I had already lost 64 pounds the last year following a keto diet,but i want something quicker to enjoy my summer and move on to start concentrating on building muscle. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.