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Carbohydrates offer some help in muscle protein synthesis, but not enough for the desired effect

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Diarmid Logan - 25 Feb 2004 17:43 GMT
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php

Carbohydrates offer some help in muscle protein synthesis, but not
enough for the desired effect

(February 25, 2004) - Bethesda, MD – A visit to the meat counter at
any supermarket is proof positive that a good number of Americans are
avoiding carbohydrates and consuming high levels of protein and fat,
in accordance with the Atkins diet. This carbohydrate-free, fat- and
protein- rich diet is for those seeking immediate weight loss, which
means most of us.

But what do others, such as weight lifters and callisthenic
enthusiasts, do about carbohydrates? Their goal is muscle preservation
and strengthening, but for years, different theories have been offered
about the effectiveness of carbohydrates in maintaining an appropriate
muscle protein balance. A new study may lead to a truce in the debate
at the nation's gymnasiums, and those dedicated to resistance training
may finally have an answer as to whether carbohydrates have a positive
role in muscle development.

Resistance exercise -- also called strength training -- increases
muscle strength and mass, bone strength, and the body's metabolism.
The different methods for resistance training include free weights,
weight machines, calisthenics and resistance tubing. When using free
weights, dumbbells, and bars stacked with weight plates, you are
responsible for both lifting the weight and determining and
controlling your body position through the range of motion.

The body's net muscle protein balance (i.e., the difference between
muscle protein synthesis and protein breakdown) generally remains
negative in the recovery period after resistance exercise in the
absence of nutrient intake, i.e., the muscle's protein is breaking
down complex chemical compounds to simpler ones. However, it has been
demonstrated that infusion or ingestion of amino acids after
resistance exercise stimulates muscle protein synthesis. Furthermore,
as little as six grams of essential amino acids (EAA) alone
effectively stimulates net protein synthesis after a strenuous
resistance exercise session.

The body's response to the six grams of EAA does not appear to differ
when 35 grams of carbohydrates are added. This reflects the
uncertainty of the independent effects of carbohydrates on muscle
protein metabolism after resistance exercise. Additionally, it is
unclear how carbohydrate intake causes changes of net protein balance
between synthesis and breakdown and how it relates to changes in
plasma insulin concentration.

Interpretation of the response of muscle protein to insulin is
complicated by the fact that a systemic increase in insulin
concentration causes a fall in plasma amino acid concentrations, and
this reduced amino acid availability could potentially counteract a
direct effect of insulin on synthesis. A past study found that the
normal postexercise increase in muscle protein breakdown was slowed by
insulin, thus improving net muscle protein balance. However, whereas
local infusion of insulin may effectively isolate the effect of
insulin per se, the response may differ from when insulin release is
stimulated by ingestion of carbohydrates.

Accordingly, a new study set out to investigate the independent effect
of carbohydrate intake on muscle protein net balance during recovery
from resistance exercise. The authors of "Effect Of Carbohydrate
Intake on Net Muscle Protein Synthesis During Recovery from Resistance
Exercise," are Elisabet Børsheim, Melanie G. Cree, Kevin D. Tipton,
Tabatha A. Elliott, Asle Aarsland, and Robert R. Wolfe, all from the
Department of Surgery, Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for
Children-Galveston, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX.
Their findings appeared in the February 2004 edition of the Journal of
Applied Physiology. The journal is one of 14 peer-reviewed scientific
journals published each month by the American Physiological Society
(www.APS.org).

Sixteen recreationally active and healthy subjects took part in the
study. At least one week before an experiment, subjects were
familiarized with the exercise protocol, and their one repetition
maximum, a maximum weight possible with a leg extension, was
determined. The subjects were assigned to one of two groups:
carbohydrate group (CHO; n = 8) or placebo group (n = 8). Subjects
were instructed not to exercise for at least 48 hours before an
experiment, not to use tobacco or alcohol during the 24 h before an
experiment, and not to make any changes in their dietary habits.

The two groups of eight subjects performed a resistance exercise bout
(10 sets of eight repetitions of leg presses at 80 percent of one
repetition maximum) before they rested in bed for four hours. One
group (CHO) received a drink consisting of 100 grams of carbohydrates
one hour after exercise; the placebo group received a noncaloric
placebo drink. Leg amino acid metabolism was determined by infusion of
2H5- or 13C6-labeled phenylalanine, sampling from femoral artery and
vein, and muscle biopsies from vastus lateralis, the lateral head of
quadriceps muscle of anterior (extensor) compartment of thigh.

Key findings of the study included:

Plasma glucose concentration was significantly increased in the
carbohydrate group until 210 min after intake of drink.

Plasma concentration of insulin reflected the changes in glucose
concentration. The drink intake did not affect arterial insulin
concentration in the placebo group, whereas arterial insulin increased
by several times after the drink in the CHO group.

Arterial phenylalanine (a common amino acid in proteins) concentration
did not change after intake of drink in the placebo group but
decreased and stabilized in the CHO group.

Net muscle protein balance between synthesis and breakdown did not
change in the placebo group but improved in the CHO group during the
second and third hour after the drink. The improved net balance in the
CHO group was due primarily to a progressive decrease in muscle
protein breakdown.

Conclusions:

This study is the first to compare net muscle protein balance (protein
synthesis minus breakdown) after carbohydrate ingestion with control
after exercise. The principal finding was that intake of 100 grams of
carbohydrates after resistance exercise improved muscle net protein
balance.

The findings from this research demonstrate that carbohydrates intake
alone can improve net protein balance between synthesis and breakdown.
In this work, the gradual improvement in net muscle protein balance
after carbohydrate intake was due principally to a progressive
reduction in breakdown. However, the improvement was small compared
with previous findings after intake of amino acids or amino acids and
carbohydrates.

The researchers conclude that intake of carbohydrates alone after
resistance exercise will modestly improve the anabolic effect of
exercise. However, amino acid intake is necessary for a maximal
response, one desired by most participating in resistance exercise
programs.

Source: February 2004 edition of the Journal of Applied Physiology.
The journal is one of 14 peer-reviewed scientific journals published
each month by the American Physiological Society (www.APS.org).

The American Physiological Society (APS) was founded in 1887 to foster
basic and applied science, much of it relating to human health. The
Bethesda, MD-based Society has more than 10,000 members and publishes
3,800 articles in its 14 peer-reviewed journals every year.
Lyle McDonald - 25 Feb 2004 18:05 GMT
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>
> Carbohydrates offer some help in muscle protein synthesis, but not
> enough for the desired effect

This comes to you from the Dept. of No sh.t we Knew this 10 years ago
Sherlock. The only confusion comes in that carbs don't appear to affect
protein SYNTHESIS (an increase in insulin prmiarily affecting protein
breakdown, decreasing it).  HIgh AA concentrations stimulate protein
synthesis.  Cobmining the two (high insulin + high AA) gives better
results, something that's been known for years.

But thanks for being on the cutting edge of about 1995 or so.

Lyle
Mark Kvale - 25 Feb 2004 19:18 GMT
>> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Lyle

That is a harsh reply to an informative article,
one that you yourself learned something from.

Perhaps you could give us a reference to the 1995 studies you refer to
above, so that we may place the current work in better perspective.

Mark
John M. Williams - 25 Feb 2004 19:55 GMT
>>> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Perhaps you could give us a reference to the 1995 studies you refer to
>above, so that we may place the current work in better perspective.

Here's a review that contains most of that:

Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Exercise, protein metabolism, and muscle growth.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Mar;11(1):109-32.
gps - 26 Feb 2004 03:32 GMT
> >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> That is a harsh reply to an informative article,

Not really.

> one that you yourself learned something from.

I doubt it.

> Perhaps you could give us a reference to the 1995 studies you refer to
> above, so that we may place the current work in better perspective.
>
> Mark

This ought to be good.
ps
William Brink - 28 Feb 2004 16:07 GMT
> >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> That is a harsh reply to an informative article,

It was how? There was nothing informative about it, though it did
support what is already known and has been known for a decade or so.

> one that you yourself learned something from.

He did?

> Perhaps you could give us a reference to the 1995 studies you refer to
> above, so that we may place the current work in better perspective.
>
> Mark

Signature

Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

Mike V - 25 Feb 2004 19:49 GMT
> > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Lyle

A nasty SOB are you not? I am delighted not to be one of your friends.
MikeV
Lee Michaels - 25 Feb 2004 19:59 GMT
"Mike V" whined

> A nasty SOB are you not? I am delighted not to be one of your friends.
> MikeV

This may help you understand this newsgroup.

http://home.comcast.net/~mfw/

Pay particular attention to # 19, # 23, # 24 and the closing remarks.
David - 25 Feb 2004 20:06 GMT
> "Mike V" whined
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Pay particular attention to # 19, # 23, # 24 and the closing remarks.

stick your stupid charter up your a.s, you dumb w.nker
Mark Gebhard - 25 Feb 2004 20:34 GMT
> > "Mike V" whined
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >
> stick your stupid charter up your a.s, you dumb w.nker

That's the MFW we all know and love.
Lee Michaels - 25 Feb 2004 20:44 GMT
> > > "Mike V" whined
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> That's the MFW we all know and love.

David Forgot Why (an appropriate screen name) is obviously an individual who
has issues with clear communication and practical knowledge.
David - 25 Feb 2004 20:52 GMT
> > > > "Mike V" whined
> > > > >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> David Forgot Why (an appropriate screen name) is obviously an individual who
> has issues with clear communication and practical knowledge.

sure, and you are obviously a genius
Mike V - 25 Feb 2004 21:54 GMT
> "Mike V" whined
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Pay particular attention to # 19, # 23, # 24 and the closing remarks.

Thanks for the fine info, Lee.
Had I realized I was including the viagra users' group in my comment, I
would have made appropriate allowance for the general level of intellectual
discourse attained over there!
Sorry, ;-(
MikeV
David - 25 Feb 2004 23:00 GMT
> > "Mike V" whined
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Sorry, ;-(
> MikeV

there are some pretty good people in this group - this guy just happens to
be a prick
Mike V - 26 Feb 2004 00:43 GMT
> > > "Mike V" whined
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > >
> > > Pay particular attention to # 19, # 23, # 24 and the closing remarks.

> > Thanks for the fine info, Lee.
> > Had I realized I was including the viagra users' group in my comment, I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> there are some pretty good people in this group - this guy just happens to
> be a prick

I'm relieved, Dave.
Apologies to all said 'good people', sidenafil citrate users, and all
disadvantaged folks wherever they may be surfing.
Sincerely,
Mike
David - 26 Feb 2004 03:30 GMT
> > > > "Mike V" whined
> > > > >
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Sincerely,
> Mike

LOL!
DRS - 26 Feb 2004 11:46 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au

[...]

> there are some pretty good people in this group - this guy just
> happens to be a prick

Lyle also happens to be a supremely well-informed prick.  Unfortunately, he
knows it.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

John HUDSON - 26 Feb 2004 12:08 GMT
>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Lyle also happens to be a supremely well-informed prick.  Unfortunately, he
>knows it.

McD is a "big fish" in a small pond; His area of 'expertise' is
narrowly defined and confined, with the consequent effect upon those
other minnows who he considers to be less well-informed!!

He is also a self-confessed pervert who obsesses about his
self-administered sexual 'adventures'!
David - 27 Feb 2004 09:25 GMT
> >David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> He is also a self-confessed pervert who obsesses about his
> self-administered sexual 'adventures'!

Put another way he is a bit player in a lucrative industry that has largely
passed him by.

You know he is approaching or in middle age - could not cut it in his chosen
field - still doing personal training gigs for $25 an hour or whatever the
lesbians can afford. Worse he is wasting his time in this newsgroup -  his
'fans'  use him up as an information  source - just tell him he is a good
guy and he performs on cue - doubt he even sells many of his electronic
books to his 'friends' - reminds me of  a busker spends all day performing
and no one throws him a dime

Probably never held a real job  - would you hire a an ego driven physchotic?
Cranky all the time - unhappy with the world and sputtering 'fucktard'  and
'moron' with every breath?

The sort of person that needs his ego stroked all the time (among other
things probably)

And this thing about throwing around insults because he knows more about
fitness than the average person - this has been his business for 20 odd
years - It's hard to get to middle age without knowing *something* about
your chosen field.  I'm sure there are many in this newsgroup who are
experts in their  field  - so what? It doesn't qualify you for a knighthood
because you know something you have spent your life doing.  But what is this
thing about  ridiculing people who know less than he does?

I think the only thing lower than a skunk is someone who tries to big note
himself by putting other people down - by trying to ridicule and humiliate
with the objective of making himself look good.

I can understand he feels a little bitter, maybe "hardly done by" as he
looks around at  most of  these 'dipshits' and 'morons' around him - his
peers - earning decent money in their fields -  probably quadrupling what he
is earning.

He seems to be going for this reputation as a cool gay guy,  bad a.s
maverick who doesn't suffer fools etc etc

People who behave like this generally are insecure,  have low self esteem -
always trying to prove themselves

In the end he is an insecure little guy trying to find some status in life
the only way he knows how.

I feel sorry for him
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 10:05 GMT
>> >David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> >SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
>I feel sorry for him

This is a generous tribute to MFW's self-appointed 'guru' and could
well be a fitting obituary.

No doubt you feel better for having got that off your chest David!!
;o)
David - 27 Feb 2004 10:12 GMT
> >> >David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >> >SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> No doubt you feel better for having got that off your chest David!!
> ;o)

ha ha - didn;t mean to write a book, sorry!
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 11:06 GMT
>> >> >David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> >SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>
>ha ha - didn;t mean to write a book, sorry!

Don't be sorry; it was very fitting and well thought out!
David - 27 Feb 2004 11:38 GMT
> >> >> >David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >> >> >SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
>
> Don't be sorry; it was very fitting and well thought out!

well . . . just have a thing about people who try to put others down.  Lee
Michaels is another like that - absolute dildos in my book
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 14:29 GMT
[..]

>> >> >I feel sorry for him
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>well . . . just have a thing about people who try to put others down.  Lee
>Michaels is another like that - absolute dildos in my book

I do believe that Lee is mellowing but the other goon has his head
well wedged up his venereal arse!!
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 14:35 GMT
>>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
>
> ha ha - didn;t mean to write a book, sorry!

Incidentally, if I'm such a total loser, what does that make people who
have nothing better to do in their lives than talk about me all the time?

Thanks for the clarification.

Lyle
David - 27 Feb 2004 15:18 GMT
> >>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 121 lines]
>
> Lyle

touche

(pronounced "tooshay",  like in French)
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 15:27 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
PcJ%b.78987$Wa.8594@news-server.bigpond.net.au
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message

[...]

>> Incidentally, if I'm such a total loser, what does that make people
>> who have nothing better to do in their lives than talk about me all
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> (pronounced "tooshay",  like in French)

For f.ck's sake, learn to snip, both of you.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 15:34 GMT
no.

Lyle

> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> PcJ%b.78987$Wa.8594@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> For f.ck's sake, learn to snip, both of you.
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 15:50 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103uorv4h1cajae@corp.supernews.com

[...]

>> For f.ck's sake, learn to snip, both of you.

> no.
>
> Lyle

Have some consideration for others for a change.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

AlphaOmega2004 - 27 Feb 2004 16:41 GMT
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  f.ck Off You Idiot!

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103uorv4h1cajae@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Have some consideration for others for a change.
David - 27 Feb 2004 15:46 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> PcJ%b.78987$Wa.8594@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> For f.ck's sake, learn to snip, both of you

you're being snippy again
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 15:50 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
HDJ%b.78996$Wa.78377@news-server.bigpond.net.au

[...]

>> For f.ck's sake, learn to snip, both of you
>
> you're being snippy again

No sh.t.  Have some consideration for others for a change.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

David - 27 Feb 2004 15:55 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> HDJ%b.78996$Wa.78377@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> No sh.t.  Have some consideration for others for a change.

sheeesh!
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 16:04 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
_LJ%b.79000$Wa.65167@news-server.bigpond.net.au
>> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> HDJ%b.78996$Wa.78377@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> sheeesh!

My sentiments exactly.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 16:03 GMT
>>>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 117 lines]
>Incidentally, if I'm such a total loser, what does that make people who
>have nothing better to do in their lives than talk about me all the time?

Oh we've got plenty to do, but it's well worth the little time it
takes, to give you a kick up the arse, and perhaps a taste of your own
medicine! ;o)
David - 27 Feb 2004 16:15 GMT
[......]

> >>>>the only way he knows how.
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> takes, to give you a kick up the arse, and perhaps a taste of your own
> medicine! ;o)

John, seems I got it wrong . He's happy with his life. Maybe he's just
socially challenged
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 16:32 GMT
>[......]
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>John, seems I got it wrong . He's happy with his life.

Well given that he knows no better, that has got to be the case. He's
much like a f.cking chimp in a zoo, complete with festering arse and
constantly playing with his dick!!

>Maybe he's just
>socially challenged

I think this is where I'm supposed to say "duh", so that I am in the
right vernacular and for McD!!

TFIF!! {and I have achieved my target so this week-end I slip the
leash - yippee!!)
David - 27 Feb 2004 16:55 GMT
> >[......]
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> TFIF!! {and I have achieved my target so this week-end I slip the
> leash - yippee!!)

duh . . .ok, next week your target needs to be set a little higher, you know
how it works - and don;t forget . . if you drink, don;t drive!  (did I say
'if'?)  ava great time!
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:15 GMT
>>[......]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> much like a f.cking chimp in a zoo, complete with festering arse and
> constantly playing with his dick!!

Repeating it: for someone with such a low opinion of me, you sure spend
a LOT of time talking and thinking about me.

Look up irony in the dictionary.

Lyle
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 17:31 GMT
>>>[......]
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Look up irony in the dictionary.

The truth is McD is that I am in love with you, but my arch rival for
your affections appears to be winning! Of course given that my rival
is *you* then I really don't stand much of a chance, do I? ;o)

Have a great week-end, I'm just about to leave for my club!! Whoopee!!
David - 27 Feb 2004 17:42 GMT
> >>>[......]
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Have a great week-end, I'm just about to leave for my club!! Whoopee!!

I don;t think your arch rival has much of a chance - you appear to have
already won
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 14:34 GMT
>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> I feel sorry for him

When did 33 become middle age?

Lyle
David - 27 Feb 2004 15:21 GMT
> >>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
>
> Lyle

ok, mebbe you're not such a loser after all - make this a wake up call -
I'll check with you in 10 years . .
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 15:27 GMT
>>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 116 lines]
> ok, mebbe you're not such a loser after all - make this a wake up call -
> I'll check with you in 10 years . .

What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales (BTW, I
don't personal train for money anymore, I train people who are worth my
time to train and the lesbians make the cut) allow me to f.ck off all
day long.  I don't have to wake up at any set hours or go to a deadening
job that makes me miserable or work for some incompetent supervisor.  I
get to read, learn, train, have fun and goof off all day every day.

Much better than working some job you hate until you retire and then
look forward to death.

But nice try.

Lyle
David - 27 Feb 2004 15:41 GMT
> >>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 130 lines]
>
> Lyle
Ahh, what the heck . . . mebbe I got it wrong  . . .mebbe you're not the
a.shole I thought you were  . . . I take it all back  . . . except the part
where you are a prick
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 15:51 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
tyJ%b.78993$Wa.17154@news-server.bigpond.net.au

[...]

> Ahh, what the heck . . . mebbe I got it wrong  . . .mebbe you're not
> the a.shole I thought you were  . . . I take it all back  . . .
> except the part where you are a prick

A prick who would leave in 7k of extraneous material to say nothing in
particular.  Hang on, which prick would that be then?

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

David - 27 Feb 2004 15:57 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> tyJ%b.78993$Wa.17154@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> A prick who would leave in 7k of extraneous material to say nothing in
> particular.  Hang on, which prick would that be then?

you say what you wanna say. I say what I wanna say. It;s a free f.cking
world
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 16:09 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
5OJ%b.79001$Wa.41978@news-server.bigpond.net.au
>> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> tyJ%b.78993$Wa.17154@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> you say what you wanna say. I say what I wanna say. It;s a free
> f.cking world

Freedom is not licence.  When you engage in any sort of communal enterprise
you assume the responsibility for taking the other needs and rights of the
other participants into consideration as well as your own.  I have never
once suggested you say anything other than what you want to say, so you can
toss that strawman away right now.  But when you (and Lyle and whoever else
does it) leave in 7k of extraneous material it has nothing whatsoever to do
with your freedom of expression, it's simply that you're too damn lazy and
inconsiderate to be bothered with doing the right thing by everybody else.
It would take you two seconds to do the right thing but you can't be
bothered doing even that much.

Signature

"The central problem with the concept of the 'Axis of Evil' is that it
involves an assumption that the US is the 'fulcrum of virtue'."
Bob Hawke

David - 27 Feb 2004 16:17 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> 5OJ%b.79001$Wa.41978@news-

[.....]

h your freedom of expression, it's simply that you're too damn lazy and
> inconsiderate to be bothered with doing the right thing by everybody else.
> It would take you two seconds to do the right thing but you can't be
> bothered doing even that much.

alright already  . . . but could you then leave out that bit about Bob Hawke
on every post?
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 16:47 GMT
David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
j4K%b.79017$Wa.35095@news-server.bigpond.net.au
>> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> 5OJ%b.79001$Wa.41978@news-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>
> alright already  . . .

Thank you.

> but could you then leave out that bit about
> Bob Hawke on every post?

You don't like the quote in my sig?

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

AlphaOmega2004 - 27 Feb 2004 16:43 GMT
Oh f.ck off with that communist crap.

> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> 5OJ%b.79001$Wa.41978@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> with your freedom of expression, it's simply that you're too damn lazy and
> inconsiderate to be bothered with doing the right thing by everybody else.

Snipping is NOT *THE* right way you f.cking IDIOT!

> It would take you two seconds to do the right thing but you can't be
> bothered doing even that much.
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:14 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> tyJ%b.78993$Wa.17154@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> A prick who would leave in 7k of extraneous material to say nothing in
> particular.  Hang on, which prick would that be then?

Ah, sweet irony.

You've easliy generated more than 7k of text with your little crusade
over top posting and everything else you whine constantly about.

Lyle
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 17:40 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103uunir5b1jv15@corp.supernews.com

[...]

>> A prick who would leave in 7k of extraneous material to say nothing
>> in particular.  Hang on, which prick would that be then?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You've easliy generated more than 7k of text with your little crusade
> over top posting and everything else you whine constantly about.

I'm not even close to your total of extraneous material.  You are one of the
laziest posters I've ever seen.

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:47 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103uunir5b1jv15@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I'm not even close to your total of extraneous material.  You are one of the
> laziest posters I've ever seen.

Am not.

Lyle
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:47 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103uunir5b1jv15@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I'm not even close to your total of extraneous material.  You are one of the
> laziest posters I've ever seen.

Nor have you geneated anything approximating the amount of amazing,
cutting edge information I've generated either.

But you sure do whine a lot.

Lyle
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 17:52 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103v0m2rutfqo02@corp.supernews.com

[...]

>> I'm not even close to your total of extraneous material.  You are
>> one of the laziest posters I've ever seen.
>
> Nor have you geneated anything approximating the amount of amazing,
> cutting edge information I've generated either.

If and when it can be found amidst the garbage you bury it in.

> But you sure do whine a lot.

Asking people to show some consideration for others is not whining.

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:56 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v0m2rutfqo02@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> If and when it can be found amidst the garbage you bury it in.

You can killfile me just as easily as anybody else cn killfile me.
I have no obligation to you or anyone to post in any way that I don't like.

If you don't like it, killfile me and don't read me.

BTW, as someone pointed out to me a while back, there is humorous irony
in the fact that:

a. the people who like what I have to say read me
b. the people who don't like it read me more

If you truly didn't like me, or my posting style, or whatever, you'd
killfile me and be done with it.  Instead you carefully read every post
I make just so you can bitch.

Curious, isn't it?

>>But you sure do whine a lot.
>
> Asking people to show some consideration for others is not whining.

It is when you post it a half dozen times.

Lyle
DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT - 27 Feb 2004 18:07 GMT
He is an idiot Lyle!

> > Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> > 103v0m2rutfqo02@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Lyle
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 18:14 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103v163saa1mh7f@corp.supernews.com

[...]

> You can killfile me just as easily as anybody else cn killfile me.
> I have no obligation to you or anyone to post in any way that I don't
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Curious, isn't it?

It's not half as curious as your lack of logic for someone who claims to be
so smart.  First of all, you do assume an obligation when you participate in
a communal forum such as this.  If nothing else, a truly intelligent person
would take care over their formatting if only out of self-interest, even
though the proper reason would be out of consideration for others, but you
and a fair number of other people in here clearly aren't even that smart.
You have just as much an obligation in here to do the right thing by others
as you do elsewhere.

Secondly, I do not read every post you make and those I do read I try to
read for content.  If you formatted properly I wouldn't complain but time
and time again it becomes too much so I speak up.  You and everybody else
who does it would benefit if you formatted properly as your posts would be
easier to read and you'd have a better chance of getting across what you
want to say but you lot seem more intent of spewing out words for the sake
of it than  communicating efficiently.

[...]

>> Asking people to show some consideration for others is not whining.
>
> It is when you post it a half dozen times.

Not even then.  That's just evidence of your intransigence.

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT - 27 Feb 2004 18:09 GMT
Caring about format in posts is like caring about what flavor douche your
mother uses.

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v163saa1mh7f@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> so smart.  First of all, you do assume an obligation when you participate in
> a communal forum such as this.

Bullshit IDIOT!

>  If nothing else, a truly intelligent person
> would take care over their formatting if only out of self-interest, even
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Not even then.  That's just evidence of your intransigence.
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 20:39 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v163saa1mh7f@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> a communal forum such as this.  If nothing else, a truly intelligent person
> would take care over their form

How so?
I'm neither paying nor being paid, I and everyone else here choose to do
so by our own volition.  I signed no paper stating a certain set of
rules was to be followed and no agreement.  I an under no obligation to
anyone.

>atting if only out of self-interest, even
> though the proper reason would be out of consideration for others, but you
> and a fair number of other people in here clearly aren't even that smart.

It's got nothing to do with smarts: we don't give a f.ck about others.

> You have just as much an obligation in here to do the right thing by others
> as you do elsewhere.

No I don't and you're repeating that doesn't change that.

I have the same freedom of speech as you and everone else here does.

That some whiny little bitch doesn't LIKE it doesn't change anything.

NOW, if I were on a forum where I had clicked on an 'agree to follow
such and such rules' thing and I wasn't following them, you'd have a
point.  As usual, you're just making it up as you go along.

And, again, if you do'nt like how I play, you can always killfile me.

You remind me of the dipfucks who always complain about folks Howard
Stern, yet continue to listen to him continually.  You have all the
control in this matter to not read my posts, nobody is forcing you.

By your f.cked up logic, I can just as easily argue that in CHOOSING to
read my postts you are OBLIGATING yourself to deal with the
consequences.  Except that I'm right and your moronic bullshit about how
my choice to interact in a free forum somehow obligates me to act in a
certain way is just the rantings of a delusional troll fuckwit.

Face it, you just want an excuse to white and bitch and moan and I'm as
good a stimulus for that as anyone else.  If it wasn't me, you'd be
whining about something else and we all know it.  Just like the majority
of other pussies on the planet.  They'd rather whine than do anything
real (doing anything real means killfiling me in this case so you don't
have to read my posts).  But you wo'nt do that, will you.

You'd rather bitch and whine and moan than do anything about the
problem.  I suggest you go to one of the alt.support.groups.

> You and everybody else
> who does it would benefit if you formatted properly as your posts would be
> easier to read and you'd have a better chance of getting across what you
> want to say but you lot seem more intent of spewing out words for the sake
> of it than  communicating efficiently.

Perhaps.  Or maybe I don't care. Or maybe I do it deliberately to piss
you off.  Or maybe all three.  You'll never know will you.

But you'll continue to read me and respond and bitch and whine won't you?

Lyle
AlphaOmega2004 - 27 Feb 2004 23:59 GMT
> > Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> > 103v163saa1mh7f@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
> read my postts you are OBLIGATING yourself to deal with the
> consequences.  Except that I'm right and your moronic bullshit about how

Lyle - you have the argument here won!  I could not have said it better and
simpler.  Thanks.  Perhaps the IDIOT DRS will listen for ONCE and shut the
f.ck up because he is WRONG.

> my choice to interact in a free forum somehow obligates me to act in a
> certain way is just the rantings of a delusional troll fuckwit.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Lyle
Lyle McDonald - 28 Feb 2004 00:34 GMT
>>>Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
>>>103v163saa1mh7f@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
> simpler.  Thanks.  Perhaps the IDIOT DRS will listen for ONCE and shut the
> f.ck up because he is WRONG.

Yeah, but since when has that ever stopped him?

But my point is made: knowing how I post and how I write, any time he
CHOOSES to read my post, he is obligating myself to whatever is in
there.  He's in no position to bitch except for the fact that he's a
whiny little pussy who appears to get off on it.

Which is why I brought up the Howard Stern example.  The people who
bitch about him (yet listen to him constantly) know what he's like, know
what he's going to say.  By CHOOSING to listen to him, they are
obligating himself to listen to what he has to say.  They are in no
position to bitch about it for that very reason. Except for the fact
that they are whiny little pussies who appear to get off on it.

Nobody is forcing DRS to read me or anybody else.  By choosing of his
own free will to do so, it's his own problem to deal with the
consequences.  If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't read it, end of story.

Lyle
DRS - 28 Feb 2004 15:17 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103van7b7plob55@corp.supernews.com

[...]

> I have the same freedom of speech as you and everone else here does.

Freedom is not licence, fucktard.

Signature

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

Lyle McDonald - 28 Feb 2004 15:20 GMT
If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103van7b7plob55@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Freedom is not licence, fucktard.
DRS - 28 Feb 2004 15:24 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
1041cde7oehqd73@corp.supernews.com
> If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.

What you say is not the issue here.

Signature

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

Lyle McDonald - 28 Feb 2004 15:34 GMT
If you don't like how I say what I say, you don't have to read it.

Lyle

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 1041cde7oehqd73@corp.supernews.com
>
>>If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.
>
> What you say is not the issue here.
Dr. Dickie - 29 Feb 2004 10:51 GMT
>If you don't like how I say what I say, you don't have to read it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> What you say is not the issue here.

One more time Lyle, he is hanging on your every word it appears.

Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================
AlphaOmega2004 - 29 Feb 2004 16:44 GMT
> >If you don't like how I say what I say, you don't have to read it.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> One more time Lyle, he is hanging on your every word it appears.

Yes - DRS is obsessed with several people and for those with which he is not
so obsessed, since he has been so roundly defeated in debate by them, he now
must ignore them lest he get another thrashing.  Such it is with an idiot of
Mr. Reality's (DRS's) mental caliber - of a small, rusted manhole cover.

Omega

Caring about top posting is like caring whether one's neighbor has room in
his trashcan for another dead fish.

> Dr. Dickie
> Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Wallace Stevens-1923
> =====================================
John HUDSON - 29 Feb 2004 18:27 GMT
>> >If you don't like how I say what I say, you don't have to read it.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>must ignore them lest he get another thrashing.  Such it is with an idiot of
>Mr. Reality's (DRS's) mental caliber - of a small, rusted manhole cover.

Despite a long and acrimonious exchange with him in the "Gay Marriage"
thread, during which it was clear that we had 'opposing' <S> views, I
have several times attempted to engage him in less controversial on
topic posts, all to no avail.

It appears that he rather enjoys being out of step and something of a
pariah!
DRS - 29 Feb 2004 19:20 GMT
John HUDSON <jrh@fitnwell.net> wrote in message
peb440189vnhj99hn5362o5bg6laoac700@4ax.com

[...]

> Despite a long and acrimonious exchange with him in the "Gay Marriage"
> thread, during which it was clear that we had 'opposing' <S> views, I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> It appears that he rather enjoys being out of step and something of a
> pariah!

Between your bigotry and AlphaZeroBrains' almost total idiocy there's not a
lot to engage me there.

Signature

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

AlphaOmega2004 - 29 Feb 2004 20:53 GMT
> John HUDSON <jrh@fitnwell.net> wrote in message
> peb440189vnhj99hn5362o5bg6laoac700@4ax.com
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Between your bigotry and AlphaZeroBrains' almost total idiocy there's not a
> lot to engage me there.

You are the idot Mr. Reality!  It is obvious to all but other idiots by now.
AlphaOmega2004 - 28 Feb 2004 16:34 GMT
Hey Lyle - I thought you told me to ignore this IDIOT DRS?

> If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >
> > Freedom is not licence, fucktard.
John HUDSON - 28 Feb 2004 22:33 GMT
>> If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> >
>> > Freedom is not licence, fucktard.

>Hey Lyle - I thought you told me to ignore this IDIOT DRS?

He did, and many times Prof, which just demonstrates the extent of
his hypocrisy.
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 21:46 GMT
>> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
>> 103v0m2rutfqo02@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>a. the people who like what I have to say read me
>b. the people who don't like it read me more

What a lot of tosh!! I normally completely ignore any post from you
unless it happens to be a thread in which I happen to be involved.

You are so boring and long-winded, and never miss and opportunity to
try and impress by over-complicating an issue. You go into reams of
copied and pasted text-book jargon, which is normally quite
gratuitous, and means bugger all to anyone else other than yourself.

Your other contributions are normally centred on the variations of
your self-administered sex life, which by any normal standards are
quite sick. I had enough of your perverted rubbish a long time ago, so
the only rare contact I have with you and your contributions, are when
we have the odd confrontation like this.  

While you may have a lot of technical knowledge it is all in a very
specialist subject. Most of it is of no interest to me, or many others
who post here on a regular basis, notwithstanding the small number of
people who hang on your every word for reasons best known to them.
They are easily impressed old chap!!
DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT - 27 Feb 2004 18:07 GMT
Yes - it is whining.  Idiot!

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v0m2rutfqo02@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Asking people to show some consideration for others is not whining.
DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT - 27 Feb 2004 18:06 GMT
Better lazy than an idiot like you, IDIOT!

"Caring about top posting is like caring about the color of the underwear
the person sitting beside you on the bus is wearing."

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It kills DRS to know I can post with other screen names and bypass his
stupid filter.  Then he attempts to play netcop by sending the posts I make
to some abuse address - as if THEY care!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH

> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103uunir5b1jv15@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I'm not even close to your total of extraneous material.  You are one of the
> laziest posters I've ever seen.
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 18:20 GMT
DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT <DRS_IS_THE_IDIOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
3f8276046857603316089aaadd9a53b1@news.teranews.com

[...]

> It kills DRS to know I can post with other screen names and bypass his
> stupid filter.  Then he attempts to play netcop by sending the posts
> I make to some abuse address - as if THEY care!

I have never done that, liar.

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misc.fitness.misc:59095 misc.fitness.weights:901218

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:11 GMT
>>>>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 143 lines]
> a.shole I thought you were  . . . I take it all back  . . . except the part
> where you are a prick

Oh no, I'm a foul mouthed belligerent prick too.  Never claimed
differently.  f.ck, I revel in it.

It's the other stuff you have your head up your a.s about.

Lyle
geek_girl - 27 Feb 2004 17:21 GMT
>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales (BTW, I
>>> don't personal train for money anymore, I train people who are worth my
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Lyle

I think he's still going by the old theory that people who are foul
mouthed and belligerent are putting up a facade to conceal their low
self-esteem and deep misery. He doesn't understand that we're perfectly
happy this way, and we honestly do believe that we're smarter/better
than everyone else.
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:33 GMT
>>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales
>>>> (BTW, I
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> mouthed and belligerent are putting up a facade to conceal their low
> self-esteem and deep misery.

Nah, I'm compensating for my 3" dick.
Obviously.

> He doesn't understand that we're perfectly
> happy this way, and we honestly do believe that we're smarter/better
> than everyone else.

Believe?
We are smarter than him and everybody else.

I am, anyhow.

Lyle
geek_girl - 27 Feb 2004 17:37 GMT
>>>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales
>>>>> (BTW, I
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Nah, I'm compensating for my 3" dick.

I thought you did something else to compensate for that.

>> He doesn't understand that we're perfectly happy this way, and we
>> honestly do believe that we're smarter/better than everyone else.
>>
> Believe?

Yeah, cuz I believe stuff that's true.

> We are smarter than him and everybody else.

Definitely him.

> I am, anyhow.

Me too!
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 21:19 GMT
>>>>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales
>>>>>> (BTW, I
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
>Me too!

<snigger
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 21:18 GMT
>>>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales
>>>>> (BTW, I
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>I am, anyhow.

Say it often enough and you'll start to believe it yourself!
David - 27 Feb 2004 21:32 GMT
> >>>>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales
> >>>>> (BTW, I
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Say it often enough and you'll start to believe it yourself!

she seems like a genius to me
David - 27 Feb 2004 17:47 GMT
> >>> What wake up call? I'm eminently happy with my life.  Book sales (BTW, I
> >>> don't personal train for money anymore, I train people who are worth my
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> than everyone else.
> \\

Please read my last post - this has nothing to do with being foul mouthed or
belligerent - I'm one of the most  foud mouthed person I know
David - 27 Feb 2004 17:39 GMT
[....]

> >>job that makes me miserable or work for some incompetent supervisor.  I
> >>get to read, learn, train, have fun and goof off all day every day.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Oh no, I'm a foul mouthed belligerent prick too.  Never claimed
> differently.  f.ck, I revel in it.

no no that;s not what makes you a prick - you can be foul mouthed and
belligerent all you like - I got no problem with that. What makes you
loathesome (to me) is this proclivity you seem to have for wanting to
ridicule  people that you perceive to be dumber than you are. To try to big
note yourself by putting someone else down.   We had a professor like that -
got a kick out of humiliating students (other than the ones who fed his
ego) - he was generally known as a goose (an Aussie term for an a.shole) .
I loathe people who try to put others down - who think somehow they are
superior because they know more in whatever narrow focus they happen to
specialize in.

> It's the other stuff you have your head up your a.s about.
>
> Lyle
Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 17:54 GMT
> [....]
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> superior because they know more in whatever narrow focus they happen to
> specialize in.

A. You might note that I don't give f.ck what you or anybody else think
of me.   Like me, don't like me, I honestly don't care.  If I did, I'd
act a lot differently than I do.

B. As well, the original poster was making a post as if it was something
meaningful.  People like that, who are unaware of their own
incompetency, should be shot down as far as I'm concerned.

You'll note that I generally try not to harsh people for ignorance (not
knowing becuse I don't know 99.9% of what's oon teh planet either), I
will harsh them for stupidity (and that includes feigning competence
where it doesn't exist, see any post by DRS, Hudson or a number of other
MFW regulars).

So if a newbie had asked "I've heard conflicting things about eating
carbs with protein, what's the deal?" they would get a different answer
than someone posting some stupid f.cking article that is demonstrating
something we knew 15 years ago and thinking they are saying something
meaningful.

So say I was a teacher and an undergrad asked a queston that we hadn't
covered.  I wouldn't harsh them, they are simply ignorant.  They can't
be expected to know something that hasn't been covered yet.

But say I was a teacher at the graduate level and someone made a
statment that is completely stupid, showing a total non-understanding of
basic information (that they are supposed to know).  I would tear them a
new a.shole.  And they would deserve it.  And if they were anything but
a crybaby pussy, they would take something valuable from the lesson.

it's the difference between a client asking a question (ignorance) and a
trainer making statements of utter stupidity.  The first doesn't get
reamed out, the second one does.

Same for someone pretending to know more about something than they
actually did (My mom, a professor, just dealt with one of her graduate
students in this fashion; he would spout off like he was more
knowledgeable than he was and she shot his a.s down like he DESERVED).

Unnerstand the distinction?

Lyle
David - 27 Feb 2004 18:09 GMT
> > [....]
> >
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lyle

I take what you say about people who purport to be experts particularly if
they are giving advice that is wrong - I am just talking about ignorance in
general or someone who just gets something wrong - if you give me $5 for
every time I google somewhere where you put someone down who was not a
trainer I'd have enough money to fly to Huston (or it is Austin or Dallas)
and then maybe I can watch you do a session with the lesbians? (I like to
watch)
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 18:15 GMT
Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com

[...]

> You'll note that I generally try not to harsh people for ignorance

"Harsh" is not a verb, Mr Intelligence.

Signature

"If it ain't broke" won't cut the mustard either. Centuries of hetero
marriage have proven it ain't just broke - the front wheels have come off,
it won't get out of reverse and the horn doesn't blow like it used to.
Tim Ferguson
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/22/1077384633999.html

DRS_IS_THE_BIGGEST_IDIOT - 27 Feb 2004 18:12 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "Harsh" is not a verb, Mr Intelligence.

Caring about grammar/spelling in the midst of a debate shows how shallow
your mental agility is, Mr. Reality!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
David - 27 Feb 2004 18:24 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "Harsh" is not a verb, Mr Intelligence.

DRS, I believe you are 'harshing' him unnecessarily
JD - 27 Feb 2004 18:24 GMT
> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> 103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "Harsh" is not a verb, Mr Intelligence.

Perhaps not in your lexicon but "harsh" has been used a verb by various
subcultures in various parts of the country for around 20 years. Apologize
to Lyle now.

JD
David - 27 Feb 2004 18:34 GMT
> > Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> > 103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> subcultures in various parts of the country for around 20 years. Apologize
> to Lyle now.

don't your 'subcultures' go to school and learn to speak proper?
DRS - 27 Feb 2004 18:36 GMT
JD <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
EXL%b.95$C65.12@nwrddc01.gnilink.net
>> Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
>> 103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> various subcultures in various parts of the country for around 20
> years. Apologize to Lyle now.

Even if that is so it does not necessarily follow that Lyle is a member of
any such subcultures.  And, for the sake of the record, "my lexicon" is
Standard English.  For example, neither Merriam-Webster or the New Oxford
recognise that usage.

Signature

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

Keith Hobman - 27 Feb 2004 18:58 GMT
> > [....]
> >
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
>
> Unnerstand the distinction?

Sure.

Like the Barney in Good Will Hunting.

Our boy is wicked smart.

:^)

Signature

Dawn's cold kiss calls me
Forth I creep, blindly stumbling
Joy: Morning workouts.
Hugh Beyer's 'Haiku On Returning To Weights'

Lyle McDonald - 27 Feb 2004 20:46 GMT
> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
<snipping so DRS won't whine>

>>Unnerstand the distinction?
>
> Sure.
>
> Like the Barney in Good Will Hunting.

here's an example of a time it happened to me.

I'm in grad school, in advanced exercise physiology.  I took issue with
a comment my teacher had made about some enzyme or another (I think I
thought it was fructose-6-phospate and he thought it was something
else).  I tell him I'll look it up. So at the next week of class he asks
me if I looked it up.  I hadn't and told him.

He said "That means you know you're wrong."

Damn if he wasn't 100% correct and if he didn't shut me down completely.
 And deservedly so.

Now, a crybaby pussy would have gotten his panties all twisted about
this.  But since I'm not a crybaby pussy, I learned a valuable lesson:
don't shoot your f.cking mouth off about someting if you're not sure
you're right.

At a later date, a different issue had come up, basically my moron
classmates were 100% wrong about something that they should have learned
in undergrad exercise physiology (it had to do with how muscle grows:
whether it's adding sarcomeres in series or in parallel and they were
ALL wrong about it and I was right).  So something else came up in class
and they thought they had me, kept asking the professor a badly worded
question.  I knew exactly where they were going but he couldn't get it.

I asked him if I could explain.  He said "ARe you sure you're right?"

Yes, give me the chalk.

I lectured the class for 10 minutes, was clearly right.

And that's a big part of why all my classmates hated me.

Because, like the crybaby pussies they all apparently were, they choose
to get all twitty and intimidated by the fact that I had had 10+ years
of time in the field to improve my knowledge base compared to theirs
(this isn't including the fact that some seemed totally clueless about
stuff they should have learned in undergrad anyhow; the difference
between ignorance and stupidity again).

Now, when I'm in that situation, I'll pick that person's brain about it.
 If they know more than me about something, I'll use them to my
advantage and get their knowledge.  These guys had too much ego for
that, decided to just shun me.  Whatever, I wasn't there to make friends
and didnt' care if they liked me or not so their bullshit was of no
concern to me.

unfortunately I was there to learn and I wasn't doing that either....

Lyle
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 21:55 GMT
>> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
><snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>here's an example of a time it happened to me.

me me me me me me me etc

For goodness sake McD you are such a self-centred boring bastard!!

[...]
David - 27 Feb 2004 22:02 GMT
> >> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
> ><snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> For goodness sake McD you are such a self-centred boring bastard!!

(just before I killfile you) here is quote from Lyle
"now let's stop talking about me . . let's talk about you . . . now, what do
you think of me?"
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 22:20 GMT
>> >> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
>> ><snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>"now let's stop talking about me . . let's talk about you . . . now, what do
>you think of me?"

That sums up the heap of neuroses known as McD very well! ;o)
David - 28 Feb 2004 04:26 GMT
> >> >> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
> >> ><snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> That sums up the heap of neuroses known as McD very well! ;o)

I think they have a section on Lyle now as a case study in Psych 101 - under
the heading "Rare Egocentric Syndrome"
John HUDSON - 28 Feb 2004 10:46 GMT
>> >> >> In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
>> >> ><snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>I think they have a section on Lyle now as a case study in Psych 101 - under
>the heading "Rare Egocentric Syndrome"

I believe he has a doctorate in RES!
David - 28 Feb 2004 11:26 GMT
[snipped so DRS won't say I'm selfish]

> >> That sums up the heap of neuroses known as McD very well! ;o)
> >>
> >I think they have a section on Lyle now as a case study in Psych 101 - under
> >the heading "Rare Egocentric Syndrome"
>
> I believe he has a doctorate in RES!

majored in "monkey fetishes and other perversions" - got a near perfect
score from what I hear
David - 28 Feb 2004 06:08 GMT
> > In article <103v12difhj8f2c@corp.supernews.com>,
> <snipping so DRS won't whine>
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> so what were you doing then?  why weren't you learning? were you always
socially challenged?
Mike V - 27 Feb 2004 20:30 GMT
> > [....]
> >
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lyle

Methinkth the young fellow doth protetht to much.
Hate to mention it, but your group maturity is showing.
(no response required, thanks, i'm done. bye)
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 21:30 GMT
>> [....]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>of me.   Like me, don't like me, I honestly don't care.  If I did, I'd
>act a lot differently than I do.

You appear to be going to great lengths to convince yourself!!

>B. As well, the original poster was making a post as if it was something
>meaningful.  People like that, who are unaware of their own
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>where it doesn't exist, see any post by DRS, Hudson or a number of other
>MFW regulars).

I can't remember you "harshing" me for "stupidity" including "feigning
competence"; you normally use the "ignore" tactic to cope with me
because you can't stand getting one up you!! ;o)

The last I heard from you was that you had "killfiled" me, which just
goes to prove my theory about "killfiles", as you responded to me
direct earlier this evening!!

You'll need a better memory than you have got McD if you are going to
tell 'porkies' of that magnitude!! ;o)

[...]
David - 27 Feb 2004 21:49 GMT
> >> [....]
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> [...]

OK, John , sorry to say, I have now killfiled you  - as you have accused my
new friend Lyle (who is clearly an "us") of telling 'porkies' which we know
Lyle does not do (normally) as he is clearly a pretty decent sort of guy
John HUDSON - 27 Feb 2004 15:59 GMT
>>>>David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
>When did 33 become middle age?

Quite frankly you'll be lucky to 'make' 66, so calling you middle-aged
is being quite generous!! ;o)
David - 26 Feb 2004 20:24 GMT
> David <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> SN9%b.76358$Wa.44028@news-server.bigpond.net.au
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Lyle also happens to be a supremely well-informed prick.  Unfortunately, he
> knows it.

actually I was referring to Lee Michaels - I know about Lyle!
Lyle McDonald - 25 Feb 2004 20:09 GMT
>>>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> A nasty SOB are you not? I am delighted not to be one of your friends.
> MikeV

Wow, that really hurts, man.  But I guess this is why you hang out with
the other pussies on mfm.

Lyle
<Sob
Patricia Heil - 25 Feb 2004 21:11 GMT
Diarmid is in the habit of posting things that are way too old
for any intelligent person not to know them.  I don't know why
he does this.  Maybe he thinks we are all stupid.

> > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Lyle
Mike V - 25 Feb 2004 22:26 GMT
At first glance, I would have taken the "February 2004 edition of the
Journal of Applied Physiology" as moderately current. Just shows how much I
know. Getting dated myself, I suppose.
MikeV

> Diarmid is in the habit of posting things that are way too old
> for any intelligent person not to know them.  I don't know why
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> >
> > Lyle
Wayne S. Hill - 25 Feb 2004 23:36 GMT
> At first glance, I would have taken the "February 2004
> edition of the Journal of Applied Physiology" as moderately
> current. Just shows how much I know. Getting dated myself, I
> suppose. MikeV

Just because the journal has a current date doesn't mean that
its contents are anything new.

Signature

-Wayne

Lyle McDonald - 25 Feb 2004 23:44 GMT
>>At first glance, I would have taken the "February 2004
>>edition of the Journal of Applied Physiology" as moderately
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Just because the journal has a current date doesn't mean that
> its contents are anything new.

I was optimistic in saying 1995.  Try 1987.

Lyle

***
J Clin Invest.  1987 Apr;79(4):1062-9.

Differential effects of hyperinsulinemia and hyperaminoacidemia on
leucine-carbon metabolism in vivo. Evidence for distinct mechanisms in
regulation of net amino acid deposition.

Tessari P, Inchiostro S, Biolo G, Trevisan R, Fantin G, Marescotti MC,
Iori E,
Tiengo A, Crepaldi G.

The effects of physiologic hyperinsulinemia and hyperaminoacidemia,
alone or in
combination, on leucine kinetics in vivo were studied in postabsorptive
healthy
subjects with primed-constant infusions of L-[4,5-3H]leucine and
[1-14C]alpha-ketoisocaproate (KIC) under euglycemic conditions.
Hyperinsulinemia
(approximately 100 microU/ml) decreased (P less than 0.05 vs. baseline)
steady
state Leucine + KIC rates of appearance (Ra) from proteolysis, KIC
(approximately leucine-carbon) oxidation, and nonoxidized leucine-carbon
flux
(leucine----protein). Hyperaminoacidemia (plasma leucine, 210
mumol/liter), with
either basal hormone replacement or combined to hyperinsulinemia,
resulted in
comparable increases in leucine + KIC Ra, KIC oxidation, and
leucine----protein
(P less than 0.05 vs. baseline). However, endogenous leucine + KIC Ra was
suppressed only with the combined infusion. Therefore, on the basis of
leucine
kinetic data, hyperinsulinemia and hyperaminoacidemia stimulated net protein
anabolism in vivo by different mechanisms. Hyperinsulinemia decreased
proteolysis but did not stimulate leucine----protein. Hyperaminoacidemia
per se
stimulated leucine----protein but did not suppress endogenous
proteolysis. When
combined, they had a cumulative effect on net leucine deposition into body
protein.

PMID: 3549777 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
elzinator - 26 Feb 2004 01:50 GMT
>Diarmid is in the habit of posting things that are way too old
>for any intelligent person not to know them.  I don't know why
>he does this.  Maybe he thinks we are all stupid.

Well, your post about 'carbs aren't supposed to help muscles' is just
as ignorant.

Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.
Diarmid Logan - 26 Feb 2004 16:02 GMT
> Diarmid is in the habit of posting things that are way too old
> for any intelligent person not to know them.  I don't know why
> he does this.  Maybe he thinks we are all stupid.

*Sigh* You really think that something that was released in February
2004 is "too old"?



> > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > Lyle
Curt - 27 Feb 2004 15:00 GMT
> > Diarmid is in the habit of posting things that are way too old
> > for any intelligent person not to know them.  I don't know why
> > he does this.  Maybe he thinks we are all stupid.
>
> *Sigh* You really think that something that was released in February
> 2004 is "too old"?

The point is there was research pointing out this fact many years ago.
This is somthing that has been known and applied in certain contexts
for some time.

Curt

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elzinator - 26 Feb 2004 01:35 GMT
>> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Lyle

Lyle  is right. It is 'old news.'
Tipton/Wolfe and Ferrando, the protein metabolism kings ("We're all
about protein metabolism"  - private conversation), have demonstrated
that AAs are superior over carbs for protein synthesis. In fact, a
colleague of theirs demonstrated that simultaneous intake of carbs
WITH AAs actually reduces protein synthesis in elderly compared to AA
intake alone. (study published last year).

The signaling pathway downstream of the insulin receptor in muscle
diverges from that which induces protein synthesis, and leads to a
reduction in the catabolic pathway of protein. Hence, the reason that
the studies demonstrate that insulin reduces catabolism, but does not
significantly increase protein synthesis.

Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.
Diarmid Logan - 26 Feb 2004 15:47 GMT
> >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Lyle  is right. It is 'old news.'

It doesn't seem to be "old news" to the scientists involved in the research.
Wayne S. Hill - 26 Feb 2004 18:40 GMT
> elzinator <callofthewest@nospam.net> wrote...
>
>> Lyle  is right. It is 'old news.'
>
> It doesn't seem to be "old news" to the scientists involved
> in the research.

Maybe they should try to keep up, then.

Signature

-Wayne

Lyle McDonald - 26 Feb 2004 19:04 GMT
>>elzinator <callofthewest@nospam.net> wrote...
>>
>>>Lyle  is right. It is 'old news.'
>>
>>It doesn't seem to be "old news" to the scientists involved
>>in the research.

Look up the phrase 'publish or perish'.

Lyle
Patricia Heil - 25 Feb 2004 21:10 GMT
Carbs aren't supposed to help build muscles.
They're supposed to maintain brain function if you get at
least 120 grams a day (American College for Preventive Medicine)
and to light the match so to speak so you can burn fat.
Bob in CT - 25 Feb 2004 21:26 GMT
> Carbs aren't supposed to help build muscles.
> They're supposed to maintain brain function if you get at
> least 120 grams a day (American College for Preventive Medicine)
> and to light the match so to speak so you can burn fat.

Darn!  Here I thought my brain was working great on much less than 120
grams a day of carbs. And. I've lost about 50 pounds eating very few
carbs.  Apparently, the American College for Preventive Medicine doesn't
know anything.

Signature

Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

William Brink - 26 Feb 2004 14:19 GMT
Bit of a "no duh" conclusion on this one. I like how the writer tries to
make it sound so cutting edge and earth shattering.

> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
>
> Carbohydrates offer some help in muscle protein synthesis, but not
> enough for the desired effect

Signature

Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

Proctologically Violated?? - 26 Feb 2004 15:41 GMT
--

> Bit of a "no duh" conclusion on this one. I like how the writer tries to
> make it sound so cutting edge and earth shattering.

         It's called knee-jerk research: PhD's tryna keep/justify dey jobs.
         Sorta the way Lyle posts 40 abstracts on a subject, not knowing
what a single one of them really sez.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d

> > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aps-cos022504.php
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
> http://www.aboutsupplements.com/
 
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