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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2004Food Pyramids
Hi folks, Got a question for the masses here: has anyone had luck losing weight just by simply following the food pyramid guidelines, like the Canada Food Guide or the USDA one? I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was constantly constipated. I tried everything suggested, including drugs, etc., but nothing was doing the trick. I simply couldn't take it anymore, so now I'm striving for a more balanced diet. I'm 24, male, started Atkins at 203, now I'm 188, hoping to go down to 170 or so. Will I be able to do this following the food pyramid, and cutting back on calories? Thanks for your input, Tyler >Hi folks, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Tyler Well, I've lost a little over 100 lbs. following a more or less balanced diet. I don't partiuclarly pay attention to the food pyramid, and I think I eat relatively more protein and relatively fewer carbs, but eat all food groups -- don't eliminate carbs or fats or anything from my diet. I'm a 55 year old female (a harder loser than a young man like you :-) ). Chris 262/155/ (holding in 152-165 weight class) >>Hi folks, >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > or anything from my diet. I'm a 55 year old female (a harder loser > than a young man like you :-) ). What percentage of your calories come from carbs Chris? Like you, I have not eliminated carbs, but because I eat less of them than the pyramid suggested, I do not consider myself following the pyramid. i >What percentage of your calories come from carbs Chris? I try to average around 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fat. Sometimes I don't get in that much protein and the other two are a little higher. Chris > Well, I've lost a little over 100 lbs. following a more or less > balanced diet. I don't partiuclarly pay attention to the food [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Chris > 262/155/ (holding in 152-165 weight class) I also have leaned toward just a healthy balanced diet. I have almost totaly cut out ugly carbs like bread,pasta,rice,white potatoes,SUGAR, ect. I don't really aim for a certain ratio when it comes to carbs/fats/protein but the way I eat seems to pretty much stay around the same. yesterday I consumed 217g of carbs. I average around 150-190g carbs daily. Looking over last weeks averages I had this.... carbs 42/fats 20/ protein 38 Month of Feb my ratio was carbs 45/fats 16/protein 39. Like I said I dont stick to a certain ratio this is just the way mine comes out.MOst of the fat I eat comes from good sources....nuts and such. I eat lots of beans such as Lima and garbonzo. They are low in fat and very high in fiber. 1/2 cup serving of garbonzo has 9g of fiber! Those along with my morning hot cereal and I easily get 30-50g of fiber in per day. It is fun talking diet and nutrition!  SignatureJP. 151 lbs gone forever!! --------------- starting 365 current 214 goal 200 hieght 6'3" 27 male NC In Da House --------------- > Hi folks, > > Got a question for the masses here: has anyone had luck losing weight just > by simply following the food pyramid guidelines, like the Canada Food Guide > or the USDA one? Not me. I had to cut back on my carbs, not as radically as Atkins suggested, but I eat about 25% carbs. > I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was > constantly constipated. I tried everything suggested, including drugs, > etc., but nothing was doing the trick. I simply couldn't take it anymore, > so now I'm striving for a more balanced diet. I'm 24, male, started Atkins > at 203, now I'm 188, hoping to go down to 170 or so. Will I be able to do > this following the food pyramid, and cutting back on calories? Tyler, can you avoid radical changes? Can you, for instance, still eat a lowered carb diet, much less meat, more fish, and 3 pounds of low calorie vegetables per day (for example)? Replacing meat with fish and eating those vegetables may help you with your constipation, while at the same time keeping your appetite at bay. i 223/173/180 > Hi folks, > > Got a question for the masses here: has anyone had luck losing weight just > by simply following the food pyramid guidelines, like the Canada Food Guide > or the USDA one? Well, not the food pyramid but I do find if I make sure that I get my "five a day" that I'm usually pretty full :-) That also gets a lot of the fiber that you need to help with the other problem. > I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was > constantly constipated. I tried everything suggested, including drugs, > etc., but nothing was doing the trick. I simply couldn't take it anymore, > so now I'm striving for a more balanced diet. Well, that's a trickier part. Ask 10 people on this ng and you may get 10 somewhat different answers on what is "balanced." Signaturejmk in NC No. But combining 30-60 minutes of exercise a day with moderate portions of high fiber low fat food is the cheapest way to get healthy. > Hi folks, > > Got a question for the masses here: has anyone had luck losing weight just > by simply following the food pyramid guidelines, like the Canada Food Guide > or the USDA one? Tyler, The best pyramid, which I follow, is Harvard's - see http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html Yes, I've lost weight, (by cutting calories) - but the reason to follow is to improve health. Dr. Willett from Harvard's advice: eat unitl you're almost but not quite full, and exercise daily. You may also be helped by 1) adding fiber - 30g fiber daily reduces appetite 2) ditch refined grains (white bread) and white potatoes (replace with whole grains)3) lower variety in your diet. The more variety and taste in your diet, the more you'll tend to eat - so don't do it. Tough love, baby! One more tip that I'm trying - grapefruit juice before each meal lowers blood glucose - and may help weight loss. > Hi folks, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tyler Hi Brad, I checked out the Harvard food pyramid, and I've basically been following it, but unknowingly! I never eat white bread, rice, etc., only whole grain stuff. And I definitely do get enough fiber (esp due to the reasons I left Atkins!) One thing this pyramid doesn't talk about is serving size -- what do you use? Same guidelines as the other pyramids? Thanks Anthony > Tyler, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > more tip that I'm trying - grapefruit juice before each meal lowers > blood glucose - and may help weight loss. >Hi Brad, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Anthony The one thing that has always tripped me up on food pyramids is the whole serving size issue. There appears to be no standardization in what a "serving size" is. Especially between the pyramids and nutritional labels. Just go to the store and look at the nutritional labels on a few loaves of bread and you'll find that 4 out of 5 of them are different in what they consider a "serving" is. One brand might say that 1 slice is a serving, where another says 2. So, if I have a sandwich made w/ 2 slices of bread, did I just eat 1 or 2 servings of breads from the food pyramid. Or maybe the way the food pyramid is setup, 2 slices are still smaller than the "serving"... or maybe its only 1.5... Its so confusing. ANd requires alot of calculating. Too much thought for my happiness. One suggestion I'd make to you is to check out www.fitday.com and track your intake for a while. See where you wind up on your own and make adjustments from there. In the case of constipation, I'd focus on fiber intake. Also, look at your crappy carb intake (sugars, processed and bleached flours, rices, etc). Replace white bread with whole grain breads that are high in fiber and low in sugar. Replace potatoes with sweet potatoes (and don't add sugar to them). Replace white rice with brown rice. Simple changes can help control the appetite and regulate bloodsugars the way that Atkins does, yet still giving you the fiber and carbs your body needs to stay regular and feeling good. You can do it, you've already got a great start going. Excellent nutrition job! White bread and white potatoes are harmful, I believe, to the avg person. Fiber is good for you, despite the nuisance of having many bowel movements. re: serving size: I'd suggest getting Dr. Willett's book: "Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy" - recipes, etc, etc. Personally I eat 400 calories in each of six meals but I burn 800 calories daily exercising. Here's my "super healthly" meal number five: 1/2 pound Fiesta blend (Acme brand) veggies cooked in microwave with one cup of Cento pasta sauce. (sometimes i throw in an onion). To drink, before the meal I have 8 oz grapefruit juice. 20 g fiber, 400 calories. My meal six (final) is 1/2 cup oatmeal (before cooking) plus 3 tablespoons of almond butter mixed in. I season it with lots of cinnamon then add artifical sweetener. Willett's book details: Willett, WC. Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. > Hi Brad, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > -- Hi Brad, I've been reading alot about the Harvard pyramid since you told me about it. Thanks very much for the reference to Willett's book. I'll check it out soon -- I've got a trip to Sweden coming up and I need some good reading material for the twenty hours I'll be traveling to get there and back! Tyler > Excellent nutrition job! White bread and white potatoes are harmful, > I believe, to the avg person. Fiber is good for you, despite the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > details: Willett, WC. Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical > School Guide to Healthy Eating. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. Tyler, You're welcome! I think it's an excellent book and continue to refer to it. Have a great trip! > Hi Brad, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > details: Willett, WC. Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical > > School Guide to Healthy Eating. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. I read that some time ago, and made changes in my diet, but didn't lose any weight. It's not really meant for weight loss. It is, however, very sensible, very sane, and makes a lot of sense. I kept thinking that someone really needed to create a weight-loss diet centered around the principles Willett outlines. Recently, I kept hearing about the South Beach Diet and something about the name kept me from pursuing it - it sounds like another crazy diet. You know, something for some freaky southern Californians who just can't bear to wear a bathing suit with that extra five pounds hanging on. (South Beach is actually in Florida, as it turns out.) However, I finally looked into it, and it sounded sensible. I got the book and read it, and it's very closely related to Willett's pyramid. He even mentions Willett at one point. I'm toward the end of my third day of Phase I. It's been pretty easy to stick with it so far. I'm down two pounds, not really trying to pretend that that's an indicator of how this is going to go, but it is nice. I'm pretty good about sticking to a diet while I'm on it, but when I go off it, blammo! This really looks like something I'll be able to keep doing after the weight comes off. Stan >Tyler, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > details: Willett, WC. Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical >> > School Guide to Healthy Eating. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. Stan, You're correct, Willett's pyramid isn't intended to cause weight loss. However, I'd guess many may lose some weight with Willett's avice of avoiding white potatoes, refined grains, and added sugars and instead eating whole grains, fruits, and veggies - and of course, exercising. Re: South Beach - my take is "Atkins without bad (saturated) fats." Certainly both Atkins and South Beach have worked for many people, but nutritionally many of the healthiest foods are fruits, veggies, and whole grains - and low carb diets like Atkins and South Beach put severe limits on these. So what to do? Personally I'm drinking 8 oz of grapefruit juice before each of three meals - in studies this has caused some weight loss. I've lost 3 lbs in 4 weeks. I've also been limiting my food variety - I eat the same meals day after day. Low variety reduces appetite - of course, this is very unpopular here but I don't mind. I also exercise like a fiend - 2 hrs daily. So I must be skinny as a rail, right? Nope- at 55 I'm 158 lbs, 5' 8" - 15% body fat (very good) - but the body fat I have is around my waist (not good). My starting weight was 174 so I'm made modest progress. On the other hand, I'm very fit now compared to other 55 yr old men. > I read that some time ago, and made changes in my diet, but didn't > lose any weight. It's not really meant for weight loss. It is, [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > >> > details: Willett, WC. Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical > >> > School Guide to Healthy Eating. New York: Simon & Schuster. 2001. [...] > I also exercise like a fiend - 2 hrs daily. So I must > be skinny as a rail, right? Nope- at 55 I'm 158 lbs, 5' 8" - 15% body > fat (very good) - but the body fat I have is around my waist (not > good). [...] I'd read a study at WebMD that said that the difference in weight loss was negligible between those who exercise religiously (at least an hour a day, 6-7 days a week) and those who exercise moderately (a half hour a day, 4-5 days a week). I looked for the article to post the link, to no avail. But what do you all make of this? It certainly got me thinking that incorporating exercise into my daily routine was more doable than I thought and that benefits can be had from shorter workouts. (The article also mentioned cutting out 500-1000 calories of one's usual/non-dieting intake.) Rogue > I'd read a study at WebMD that said that the difference in weight loss > was negligible between those who exercise religiously (at least an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > workouts. (The article also mentioned cutting out 500-1000 calories of > one's usual/non-dieting intake.) It's easier to cut some food out of your diet when you're exercising for a number of reasons. Healthy behaviors re-enforce each other. Time you're spending exercising is time you're not eating. And exercise can be an appetite suppressant. I exercise like a fiend, too, but I do it through intensity, not duration. Today I had 45 minutes at the gym. I warmed up for 9 minutes on a cross-trainer (an elliptical thing where you use your arms, too.) I noticed that my heart rate was 175 beats per minute. I'm 40, so that's significantly high. In other words, I was pushing myself. Then I spent 35 minutes racing around the weight room getting in as many lifts as I could in supersets. I did seated rows then ran to the bench to do my bench presses. (Working back and pecs with no rest in between.) I then started doing sumo deadlifts (for hams and gluts and a bit of quads) and did shoulder work inbetween sets of those. (I find deadlifts to be a cardio workout in themselves.) Then I finished off my quads and my abs in supersets. No time for calves, tris or bis today. (Who needs limbs, anyway?) I did a few stretches as I gathered my stuff in the lockeroom. Anyway, I was only in the gym 45 minutes and I bet it was more effective than most of the two hour workouts I see people poking about doing. Dally "healthy behaviours reinforce themselves" - absolutely true for me. I'm not going to ruin an hour of aerobics by having that slice of cake. Also,for me, weight lifting - which involves discomfort for a goal - is a good discipline developer - which helps me stay on my diet routine. Re: how much exercise do you need? No doubt there are diminishing returns - 1/2 hour is much better than zero, but 1 hour is not twice as good as 1/2 hour, and 2 hrs may be only a little better than 1 hr. 2hrs does, however, allow you to eat more (and still lose weight) because of the number of calories burned. And, Dally, you are certainly right that the quality and intensity of your workout is as important as the number of minutes. I see many people at the gym going through the motions - they might as well be going for a stroll. > > I'd read a study at WebMD that said that the difference in weight loss > > was negligible between those who exercise religiously (at least an [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Dally Hi there -- > I'd read a study at WebMD that said that the difference in weight loss > was negligible between those who exercise religiously (at least an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > workouts. (The article also mentioned cutting out 500-1000 calories of > one's usual/non-dieting intake.) Not exactly the same, but there was a brief news snippet about something like this in Men's Health (January/February 2004, p. 44) in the Fitness section. It was about a study by Steve Edwards, professor of sports psychology at Oklahoma State University. Briefly put, the tiny article says that you don't need high intensity energy to increase metabolism, build strength or feel energized. Instead, even exercising at a moderate intensity (breathing slightly harder than at rest) can offer the same rewards. Sorry, I can't offer any more information about where the actual study is published. Tyler > [...] > > I also exercise like a fiend - 2 hrs daily. So I must [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Rogue Absolutely! There are definitely benefits to daily exercise whenever you can fit it in. In addition to weight loss, it helps with mood. I vary the intensity of my daily workouts - some days I get an hour or more of intense exercise, others I do an hour or so of less intense exercise. Days I don't exercise don't really affect my weight so much as my mood. I feel like something is missing on the days I don't get a decent workout. This is why I try even to just get a walk in when I can. Jenn >Stan, > >You're correct, Willett's pyramid isn't intended to cause weight loss. > However, I'd guess many may lose some weight with Willett's avice of >avoiding white potatoes, refined grains, and added sugars and instead >eating whole grains, fruits, and veggies - and of course, exercising. Sure, it might happen. Didn't for me, but it did make me wish that someone would build a weight-loss program around it. The South Beach Diet is pretty close to just that. >Re: South Beach - my take is "Atkins without bad (saturated) fats." Well then you're way off the mark. I've read the books for both. I've done Atkins and I'm in Phase I of the SBD right now. Sure, there are similarities, starting with 14 days of "induction" on Atkins and 14 days of "Phase I" on the SBD, followed by a relaxation of the rules during which you lose weight ("Phase II" on SBD), and ending with "maintenance" for Atkins known as "Phase III" on SBD. Sugar, rice, potatoes, white bread, etc., are all to be avoided on both diets. Both diets have as one goal that you never feel hungry, which helps you stick with it. The SBD is not focused on carbs so much as on glycemic index. Keeping the blood sugar steady is a major goal. This may not be so crucial to other people (and we're all free to use whatever approach works for us), but for me, I hit that first swing in blood sugar and it's all over for the day. On the South Beach Diet, I'm in Phase I and I drink all the 1% milk I want (and all the low-fat yogurt). I eat beans and tomatoes. That wasn't true when I was on Atkins. When I move into Phase II, I can add apples, apricots, cantaloupe, cherries, grapes, mangoes, oranges, peaches, pears, plums. Carrots. I can even have small amounts of whole grains, sweet potatoes, popcorn, and chocolate. Atkins? I don't think so. >Certainly both Atkins and South Beach have worked for many people, but >nutritionally many of the healthiest foods are fruits, veggies, and >whole grains - and low carb diets like Atkins and South Beach put >severe limits on these. SBD is not a low-carb diet. It's all about the sugar. Veggies are fine (except beets, corn, and potatoes), as many are on Atkins. Many fruits are okay. Yes, starches are limited, but you can have some, as long as they're whole grain. I walked into this with a prejudice about it, too. Then I heard a few things about it, decided to find out more, ended up deciding the whole thing sounded pretty sensible, so here I am, on my fifth day and down six pounds. Not that rapid weight loss is what I'm after, and I'm sure it's all water right now, but I won't complain about it, either. Stan > I'd suggest > getting Dr. Willett's book: "Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy" I agree! Excellent book. I'm using that as a basis for my own weight loss, simply by choosing the foods based on his pyramid, and eating moderate amounts. I'm getting used to smaller portions, which took some doing. Using smaller plates and bowls, and waiting at least 20 minutes after eating a small meal to see if I *really* feel like I need a little more to eat (usually I don't feel hungry after I wait a while.) I tried low-carb for a while, but feel much better now that I'm eating beans and whole grains. <g> For me, this food pyramid combined with portion/calorie control seems to work -- other folk find other approaches work for them. <g> Lene' >>I'd suggest >>getting Dr. Willett's book: "Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > For me, this food pyramid combined with portion/calorie control seems to > work -- other folk find other approaches work for them. <g> I liked the book, too. It's equivalent to the Zone Diet, the South Beach Diet, the Glycemic Index Diet, and the Body for Life diet, though. In fact, it's pretty much what my grandmother told me: eat reasonable portions of meals that are fairly balanced for complex carbs, lean proteins and healthy fats. You can do the same diet with Atkins if you choose lean proteins and healthy fats and skip the stupid induction stuff. Whatever you call it, you need to find a way of fueling your body that leaves you with enough fiber, enough phytonutrients, enough protein and enough fat to fuel your processes and leave you sated until your next meal. In practice this tends to mean cutting out the calorie-budget-busting simple carbs. They just have too many calories for their nutrient buck. Dally 244/181/170 > I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was > constantly constipated. Sounds like you stayed on Induction. Simple solution. Induction is not all there is to Atkins. Follow the rest of the steps and you'll be on a plan custom tuned to your body. Constipation stops when folks move on to the rest on the plan and eat those huge amounts of veggies. Hmmm, did you eat the mandatory minimum veggies while on Atkins? Folks who do rarely have the constipation last beyond the first two weeks but folks who eat junk to get to their 20 sometimes continue getting constipation. Hi Doug, Nope, I moved on past induction after my initial two weeks, but no change. I followed the plan as best as I could, and I didn't fill up on 'junk': I typically had salad with lunch and dinner, in addition to moving through the carb ladder, starting with the veggies (mainly broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower). Most of my carbs were coming from veggies, to no avail. I tried everything suggested: I was drinking tons of water a day (still am), excerising daily (still am), flax seed muffins, psyllium husk capsules daily, etc. Near the end of my tenure I even had to try commercial laxatives (including suppositories) and even they didn't work. It was at that point I decided to leave Atkins. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing bad to say about the Atkins WOE. It worked wonderfully for me in terms of weight loss, but the constipation was just too much for me to handle. I've always had problems in that respect, so Atkins just wasn't for me. Thanks for your input nonetheless! Tyler > > I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was > > constantly constipated. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > folks who eat junk to get to their 20 sometimes continue getting > constipation. > I was doing Atkins for just about two months, and it was working, but I was > constantly constipated. It is very strange that you remained constipated after moving on to OWL. We're talking vast quantities of veggies to pull off the quota once you're in the 50ish range of the most common CCLL. Still being constipated with that much veggies is bizzare. Consider posting a menu of everything that went in your mouth in the last 2 days with quantities and have folks take a look. You must be eating some sort of problem food to manage to hold in all that roughage from a big basket of veggies daily. > I'm 24, male, started Atkins > at 203, now I'm 188, hoping to go down to 170 or so. Exactly how did you select your goal? I'm 5'6" and my ideal weight according to body fat percentages is 170-175. If you're taller than I am you would need to have long thin bones. If you're already at your ideal weight, Atkins won't take you any lower. I'd rather tell you to enjoy your perfection in that case than to point you down the road of low calorie. You'd have to maintain low calorie for the rest of your life to stay eternally below your real ideal weight and that's far more work than most people are willing to do. |
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