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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / May 2004So confused! HELP. Diet, no diet, carb, no carb, fat, low fat....
Okay, A few years ago I lost 30 lbs in a very short amount of time. I think I had been eating so much junk food and "bad" stuff over the years the weight just flew off without a heck of a lot of effort. Unknowingly I think I cut carbs by a good amount and just paid a little more attention. Since that time I have tried to maintain the loss by going completely low carb Atkins-style. That worked for a while I guess. But boredom set in due to the fact that I never did it right (never added back in the whole grains etc.) and over the past year I gained about 12 lbs back. Not exercising as much, got lazy with treats and got my heart shattered (not necessarily in that order). I have lately swung between low low carb and not so low carb but healthy with a few binge sweet days thrown in for good measure (sweets are def. my downfall). There have been more and more of those, however, and this is not a positive trend. I just want to be healthy at this point and I figure the weight will take care of itself if I find a good, healthful way of eating. The problem is low carb has been so drummed into my head I'm now afraid of carbs in general and I don't even know what healthy is anylonger. I do believe in a somewhat low carb lifestyle because it has been the only thing I ever stuck with and I didn't feel deprived (except for the aforementioned sweets). However, I would like to do something moderately low carb but extremely healthy. I always felt guilty eating all the fat and so I would like to cut down on that and add in fruits, some grains, etc. I don't miss bread particularly although I'd like to eat a sandwhich on occasion (can even use a low-carb tortilla for that). This week I started eating a really high fiber cereal with carb countdown milk for the first time since I can remember. Cereal? Sacriligious I guess. I am extremely tired of eggs for breakfast and I need something quick so I thought that was a good alternative. Oatmeal would be nice but where do I start on my fears there? I guess I've just heard that once you go over so many carbs you are destined to be fat and so the thought of oatmeal or too much fruit, etc. will send me off to a life of fat. For a while I was thinking if I ate over 30 carbs I would just start gaining. It got to the point I wouldn't even touch sugar free gum. This is too obsessive and it has to stop. I would very much appreciate some of you who follow a moderatly low carb eating plan to give me some direction. What is healthy to you? Can I eat low fat yogurt or should I stay with something else? Can I eat an orange every day and not gain 20 lbs in a year? Can I switch back and forth between egg beaters and high fiber cereal and oatmeal during the week? Do I have to give up my beloved two mugs of coffee with splenda every day? Should I avoid diet coke and only drink water? I am so grateful for any of your comments. Right now I'm weighing in at 153 (I am 5' 7") and up until I started adding more carbs in I was weighing between 145-149. Obviously the upward trend there is the water weight I assume so I am trying not to freak out and just figure I need to forget about that and go for health over everything else. My lowest weight was 134 and that was too low for my frame so I would like to shoot for 140-145. Although I am not a slave to numbers. Clothes fitting means more to me -- so much more. At this point I don't even know the calories I should be trying to aim for. This year has been off and on with exercise (walking, a little hiking and riding my horse) but I intend to up that as I would like to feel stronger and I know if I can get back into a routine it would be very helpful. Thank you so much. I look forward to being part of this group and I look forward to your experiences. Timber > I just want to be healthy at this point and I figure the weight will take care > of itself if I find a good, healthful way of eating. I do not know about you, but for me, my weight problem would not take care of itself on any way of eating, no matter how healthy (unless it is some crazy WOE like raw vegetables only). No matter what, I always will have a tendency to overeat. > The problem is low carb has been so drummed into my head I'm now afraid of > carbs in general and I don't even know what healthy is anylonger. > I do believe in a somewhat low carb lifestyle because it has been the only > thing I ever stuck with and I didn't feel deprived (except for the > aforementioned sweets). I eat 150 carbs per day (which qualifies as a somewhat low carb lifestyle) and do not feel deprived of anything in particular. > However, I would like to do something moderately low carb but extremely > healthy. I always felt guilty eating all the fat and so I would like to cut [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > point I wouldn't even touch sugar free gum. This is too obsessive and it has to > stop. To some extent, a certain level of obsessiveness is needed if your appetite is too screwed up. Just my opinion. Obsessiveness and vigilance are related concepts. > I would very much appreciate some of you who follow a moderatly low carb eating > plan to give me some direction. What is healthy to you? Can I eat low fat > yogurt or should I stay with something else? Can I eat an orange every day and > not gain 20 lbs in a year? Can I switch back and forth between egg beaters and > high fiber cereal and oatmeal during the week? A single cup of sweetened low fat yogurt could easily contain 20 carbs. I think that you can eat anything, the real questions are, just how hungry you are going to be after that, and also, how much nutrition you get after you eat your daily calorie allowance. I eat one big sweet apple per day, for instance. > I am so grateful for any of your comments. Right now I'm weighing in at 153 (I > am 5' 7") and up until I started adding more carbs in I was weighing between > 145-149. Obviously the upward trend there is the water weight I assume so I am water weight is also weight, you know. Unless you know it goes away in a day or two (like what happens when you overeat salt), it would not be proper to just subtract or ignore it. We are 95% water, but I am not saying that I weigh only 9 lbs. > trying not to freak out and just figure I need to forget about that and go for > health over everything else. My lowest weight was 134 and that was too low for > my frame so I would like to shoot for 140-145. Although I am not a slave to > numbers. Clothes fitting means more to me -- so much more. > > At this point I don't even know the calories I should be trying to aim for. Try this, define a weight goal, and if you are above that goal, eat less (getting progressively stricter), and if you are below, eat more. > This year has been off and on with exercise (walking, a little hiking and > riding my horse) but I intend to up that as I would like to feel stronger and I > know if I can get back into a routine it would be very helpful. > > Thank you so much. I look forward to being part of this group and I look > forward to your experiences. you are asking great questions TImber. I will also follow this thread  Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- @ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @ @ @ char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." Diet vs. no diet: The term "diet" should pertain to the way you choose to eat. Not to a short term way of losing weight. The "no diet" really is a way of distinguishing between a "short term change in eating in an effort to lose weight" as apposed to a "long term, permanent change in eating habits that allow you to lose weight and maintain the weight loss for the rest of your life" Generally speaking, people refer to Diet = short term change in eating in an effort to lose weight, once the weight is gone you go back to your usual eating habits. No Diet = long term, permanent change in eating habits that allow you to lose weight and maintain the weight loss for the rest of your life. You can "diet" and lose weight, but what do you do when you stop dieting? Or you can permanently change your diet (food intake) to a new way of eating (WOE) and a new way of living (WOL) that will permenently change your life. Your best bet is to take the "no diet" approach - and make a permanent change in your eating habits and lifestyle. Carb vs. no carb. Some carbs are good. Some carbs are necessary. Do some research on the "Glycemic Index" of foods and read up on it. Bottom line on carbs. If its white - eat a very limited portion If its sugary and sweet - eat a very limited portion If its dark brown, grainy, its good. Fat vs. low fat. Some fats are good. Fats in yoru meals can help you feel satisfied after your meal. Also, some fats will actually help you reduce your cholestrol. They also will help curb hunger, appetitie, and help you lose weight. Bottom line - do some research and learn how certain foods react in your body. > The term "diet" should pertain to the way you choose to eat. Not to > a short term way of losing weight. The "no diet" really is a way of > distinguishing between a "short term change in eating in an effort to > lose weight" as apposed to a "long term, permanent change in eating > habits that allow you to lose weight and maintain the weight loss for > the rest of your life" It goes beyond that for some people. To me, no diet also implies that you have little restriction on the kind of food you can eat. For instance, carbs/proteins/fats/sugars are not taboo. Likewise, you don't *have* to eat some special food. You don't weight your stuff, you don't count your calories, you don't weight yourself daily... But you do practice overall moderation by listening to your body (hunger/satiety). You also try to have a global approach on your weight loss, including behavioural and psychological issues. This doesn't mean you do not include nutrition there. You just don't make an obligation out of it - it's good to try to eat healthy food, but one totally unhealthy meal once in a while won't kill you. The goal is to make eating a non-stressful experience that becomes self regulating. Per definition, a no-diet approach is long term. If you're not doing a diet, you're not going to stop doing it, ever. But it goes beyond that. Low carb is long term for most people, but it's still a diet. > You can "diet" and lose weight, but what do you do when you stop > dieting? You get back all the fat you lost, and then some more. > Carb vs. no carb. > Some carbs are good. Some carbs are necessary. Do some research on > the "Glycemic Index" of foods and read up on it. Also look at what lowers the GI, this is almost as important as the "raw" GI of the food. All these lower GI : - fats - proteins - fibers - acids - cooking in large chunks vs small chunks - cooking the food less (ie al dente pasta vs overcooked pasta) > Bottom line on carbs. > If its white - eat a very limited portion > If its sugary and sweet - eat a very limited portion There again, combination can help. Spreading butter on that white thing will lower the GI. Eating that sugary thing at the end of a complete meal (with fats, fibers...) will also dramatically lower its GI. Though GI is mainly useful if you have diabete or a similar condition (reactive hypoglycemia for instance). It's also useful if you don't like being hungry a couple of hours after your meal. > If its dark brown, grainy, its good. Unless dark brown means caramel colouring ;) > Fat vs. low fat. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Also, some fats will actually help you reduce your cholestrol. They > also will help curb hunger, appetitie, and help you lose weight. They will also provide vitamins, help you heart beyond the cholesterol issue and help your skin health. >They will also provide vitamins, help you heart beyond the cholesterol issue >and help your skin health. Thanks for the followup Lictor, I kept getting interrupted while I was writing that post and finally just rushed thru it because I'd lost my train of thought. I was hoping it would at least lead to a good continuation of the thread with more detail than I had posted. Atkins did to you what most specialty diets do. They bore you, you stop, and the weight comes back on. Are you sure you're ready now to be healthy for life? If you are, start a program to stick with the rest of your life. Forget about low-carb or whatever you have heard about in the news. 1) Start an exercise program. You can't be healthy without exercise. In fact, exercise prevents so many problems it can save you up to $6000 a year in drugs eventually. You need some aerobic, you need some strength, and you need some flexibility training. Do this before you change how you eat. The goal is to work out at least 30 minutes straight, every day. 2) Eat a wide variety of food that is low in fat and high in fiber, with some animal products to give you things your body can't get from or make from plant foods. Limit the number of portions you eat, and limit how big the portions are. You can eat junk food, but not every day and probably not every week. > Okay, >I just want to be healthy at this point and I figure the weight will take care >of itself if I find a good, healthful way of eating. As long as you are reasonably active as well, it can take care of itself. :) >need something quick so I thought that was a good alternative. Oatmeal would be >nice but where do I start on my fears there? I guess I've just heard that once [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >point I wouldn't even touch sugar free gum. This is too obsessive and it has to >stop. Wow, it sounds like you have some issues that you're going to have to work though. First point to try to remember - anything is fine in moderation. That means a few sweets are fine, fruit is fine, carbs are fine, fat is fine, protein is fine. I think low-carb diets are fine, as long as you are thinking about what you are doing - trying to eat carbs in moderation. Moderation is going to mean different things to different people. Start slow. Eat one serving of oatmeal once a week. Try it out. See how your body reacts. Everyone is different, but you'll probably find that it's fine. Add in fruits slowly. It'll be ok. :) I think you might want to consider trying to find some kind of nutritional counselling, as it does seem like you are being obsessive about what you are eating. Good Luck! > Since that time I have tried to maintain the loss by going completely low carb > Atkins-style. That worked for a while I guess. But boredom set in due to the > fact that I never did it right (never added back in the whole grains etc.) and > over the past year I gained about 12 lbs back. Let's see. It worked for a while but since you declined to follow the directions you fell off. Sounds simple to me. Do Atkins but follow all of the directions. You already knows it works as long as you do follow the directions because it worked for a while. So step out into the later phases per the directions and you'll do fine. Atkins has a Maintenance phase and everything. Buy the ATKINS book and read it, and start all over. Switch into burning fat instead of carbs. It is the most effective weight loosing diet. > Okay, > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Timber Thanks everyone for your comments. I suppose my post did sound a bit obsessive but some of it was written tongue in cheek. I do believe that it's easy to get obsessive about all of this and that's one of the things I'm so disappointed in myself about. Instead of just eating what I know is a healthy way, I turned to quick fixes and rules and regulations. I lost the weight but I also lost some of my rationality I guess. This week has been good and I feel like I'm back on track... eating really high fiber all bran cereal and yogurt breakfast/snack and low carb torilla turkey sandwich at lunch along with a nice lean protein with veggies for dinner. I cut down on the fat I was using on Atkins (as I said I never totally felt comfortable with that) but I do understand that good fat is a GOOD thing. Atkins is right for some and mostly right for me -- just not totally. Anyway, thanks. 153/151/140 >Thanks everyone for your comments. I suppose my post did sound a bit obsessive >but some of it was written tongue in cheek. I do believe that it's easy to get [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Anyway, thanks. >153/151/140 As long as carbs don't trigger bad cravings, or otherwise be a problem for you... there's really nothing at all wrong with a fairly balanced diet, one where you get your carbs primarily from fruits, veggies, whole grains, etc... What you are eating sounds just fine. Cynthia > Atkins is right for some and mostly right for me -- just not > totally. You admit you never followed the directions, so this assertion is false. You have *not* tried what Atkins is therefore you have no clue if it's right for you. Do what works for you, but if you select a plan actually follow its actual directions. And if you fail to follow the directions don't blame the plan for that. What you're doing now is fine but be clear on the issues surrounding what you have tried in the past, partial attempts. << You admit you never followed the directions, so this assertion is false. You have *not* tried what Atkins is therefore you have no clue if it's right for you.>> Actually I mispoke in part of my original post. I did -- at one point and for quite a while -- do Atkins EXACTLY by the book. That's how I lost the weight to begin with. What I didn't feel comfortable with was all the fat and I also didn't add things back in in the long run like I should have. It was very easy for me to stay at induction levels and eat the same things day in and day out. It gave me something to stick with and for that I am grateful. You don't have to give me a lecture on the fat theory. I do believe it works. I also believe that it works quite well. I have pointed many friends towards Atkins and low carb in general. All I'm saying is that I didn't feel it was the thing for me anymore. I wanted to just follow something that feels healthy for me and quit obsessing over the number of carbs or fat grams I was injesting every hour. For me, it caused THAT sort of reaction i.e. if I chew this once piece of sugarless gum with sugar alcohols I may gain 5 lbs. I know this is ALL in my head but MY head is where I live. So, thanks for the comment but I did want to point out that I DID follow it correctly in the beginning. It's just that like some other people I've read about, I need to come up with my own thing that works for MY life -- something I will stay with. I don't look at this like a diet. With a history of Crohn's disease and several major surgeries over the years, it's got to be a lifestyle. Period. Timber > > You admit you never followed the directions, so this assertion > > is false. You have *not* tried what Atkins is therefore you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I also didn't add > things back in in the long run like I should have. So much for your claim that you followed the directions. Induction is NOT doing Atkins exactly by the book. Exactly by the book means Induction lasts 14 days. Extending Induction may be allowed but it is a variation *not* the core process. Atkins is something specific no matter that few actually do what Atkins really is. > It was very easy for me to > stay at induction levels and eat the same things day in and day out. Join the club. Induction is trivially easy to stay on. But Induction lasts 14 days if you follow the book exactly. Atkins is harder when you follow the directions. > All I'm saying is that I didn't feel it was the thing for me anymore. Induction. Right, but that isn't Atkins. Following the 4 phase process you *would* have steadily reduced fat until you reached a level specifically tuned to your own body. OWL doesn't just increase carbs by adding calories. It increases carbs at the expense of fat staying at approximately the same total calories. More work than Induction. > I wanted to just follow something that feels healthy for me The 4 phase process does exactly that. > and quit obsessing over the > number of carbs or fat grams I was injesting every hour. It's only needed to have a detailed carb count during the time it takes tofind your CCLL by spending a week out of ketosis. You're still counting something, aren't you? Even if its counting portions. Once you've found your CCLL the remainder of OWL is counting at that level. You may have a CCLL of 50 or whatever and to get to that number takes so many cups of this sort of veggie. No longer any need to obsess once you've gotten through the high effort part. > For me, it caused THAT sort of reaction i.e. if I chew this > once piece of sugarless gum with sugar alcohols I may gain 5 lbs. The Induction mentality, exactly. Something that does not happen when you're in OWL because on OWL you are required to add stuff back in systematically. > I know this is ALL in my head but MY head is where I live. A caution - You treated Atkins as an extremist system (when it is not) and you had a problem with that extremism. Did you in any way lift up your own extremism and then impose it on what you're doing now? That extremism didn't come from Atkins; it came from you. So switching to another process didn't necessarily resolve that extremism. > I need to come up with my own thing that works for MY life Right. Whatever works whether it's Atkins or not. But don't claim you did Atkins exactly when all you ever did was Indcution. > With a history of Crohn's disease and several major surgeries > over the years, it's got to be a lifestyle. Period. Have you been avoiding grains? Grains seem to cause or make Crohn's disease worse in a *lot* of people. It's worth avoiding grains just in case if you've got Crohns or IBS or other gigestive problems. << Right. Whatever works whether it's Atkins or not. But don't claim you did Atkins exactly when all you ever did was Indcution.>> Imagine waking up and checking the newsgroup this morning... a SUPPORT group that, is. And feeling just the slightest bit attacked. Look, I know Atkins worked. Just didn't work for me -- whether it was because I didn't do it right or because I just wanted to modify it somewhat. I am not knocking the diet so please quit acting as if I am and dissecting my entire post into tiny bits. I may even go back and try it again someday. Hell, could be tomorrow. I was just trying to be honest and I came here for support, not a dressing down. I didn't realize there were diet extremists in here ready to attack a person for just speaking up and asking questions. On another note: Sincerely, thank you to everyone who offered up advice and commented. I do appreciate the help. > Atkins is right for some and mostly right for me -- just not > totally. That's because Atkins is designed to correct *specific* problems, and if a person doesn't have those specific problems which Atkins addresses, then, yes, it's obviously not for them. SignatureThe post you just read, unless otherwise noted, is strictly my opinion and experience. Please interpret accordingly. Well, I've lost over 100 lbs. eating a diet that's moderate in both carbs and fats. I typically eat 100-150 grams of carbs per day. Certainly you won't automatically get fat if you eat carbs! You've bought into the Atkins hype too much! What counts is eating a reasonable number of calories and using those you do eat wisely -- on healthy carbs (whole grains, fruits, vegetables) and healthy fats (nuts, fish, lean meats, olive oil). Chris 262/154/ (145-150) On 5/11/04 8:00 AM, in article h720a0p8b6f2dd9aql72bsquo8rj6c0p72@4ax.com, > Well, I've lost over 100 lbs. eating a diet that's moderate in both > carbs and fats. I typically eat 100-150 grams of carbs per day. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Chris > 262/154/ (145-150) Yes, what you are saying is correct and sensible. I've started logging much the same thoughts at my personal http://diet.lifemind.com site, where I have been moving from Atkins to what you say - sensible calorie counting and healthy carbs, avoiding those which cause hunger spikes. I hope I have the same success you have enjoyed! doug 288/244/undecided |
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