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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / May 2004Help and Advice, Please
Dear all, I am in desperate need of advice. I am 5'2" and fluctuate between 128-130lbs. I have a history of eating disordered behavior, from binge eating to anorexia and bulimia. All of these have messed with my metabolism. I would like to stop the insanity. Right now, I spend approximately 70 minutes in the gym. I do the elliptical trainer for about an hour and 10 minutes on the stairmaster, bike, or treadmill. I used to run, but my Achilles tendonitis has put an end to this. I also take my dog for at leat one walk a day, about 2 miles. I also lift weights at home (I have a weight set) and do crunches. I have developed a pattern where I eat nothing all day, but then I binge from 6pm until I fall asleep. I eat approximately 2600 calories a day, if not more. The only reason I weigh as little as I do is because I work out. The thing is that I NEED to stop this, and I need to lose about 10-15 pounds. When I was "healthies" (read: not totally obsessed by working out and eating), I weighed about that much less. Please help. Constant > Dear all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 10-15 pounds. When I was "healthies" (read: not totally obsessed by > working out and eating), I weighed about that much less. Please help. I hate to say it, but it appears that you are living a relatively healthy lifestyle, you just do not like the inconvenience and food obsessions. (which you have every reason to not like). In other words, this is a question of sanity and convenience for you, not a question ot trying to live more healthfully, avoiding diseases of the body etc. My expectation is that you food issues are not going away from you no matter what you try, sadly, and so it is better to simply make a few incremental improvements, than it is to seek a complete cure. Such as, eat a bit more in the morning, eat twice less in the evening (so that your total food intake is cut), and cut 20 minutes from your exercise. If you do just that, your quality of life may greatly improve. I am not sure why you "need" to cut 10 pounds, are you a performer of some kind? Also, I am not sure why you say that your "metabolism" is messed up. You eat upwards of 2600 calories per day, while doing (my wild guess) 700 calories of exercise. That leaves you with 1900 calories basal rate for a 130 lbs body. That's a pretty high metabolism, if you ask me. IOW, you have a convenience problem, not a health problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > IOW, you have a convenience problem, not a health problem. Why am I not surprised? Your opinion is uninformed and dangerous. Educate yourself before someone actually takes you seriously. > > Dear all, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > healthy lifestyle, you just do not like the inconvenience and food > obsessions. (which you have every reason to not like). I'll never understand how you could possibly give this type of advice. I know very little about eating disorders but I do know enough to know this person should seek professional advice. Eating disorders are definitely not a healthy lifestyle and much more than an inconvenience. >> In article <25c31967.0405140509.627bf8ce@posting.google.com>, > ConstantRunner wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > person should seek professional advice. Eating disorders are definitely not > a healthy lifestyle and much more than an inconvenience. Let's see: this person weighs 130 lbs at 5'2", and exercises in a very healthful manner daily. He also eats most of his food in the evening, which is not unheard of and is done by many athletic people. (check out "warrior diet" on google) He or she is at normal weight and probably in a good physical health, at least he gave us no reason to think otherwise. Is there anything incorrect in this description? That said, he has some mental issues such as food obsessions etc, for which he could seek help. He also would like to spend less time on exercise, and maybe eat in a different manner. It appears (from the way I read his post) that his bulimia and such are his history and not his present. How much he would get out of this professional help is not clear to me, maybe a lot, maybe not. But even if he does get help, if he remains an active exerciser at the same weight, he'd have an excellt shot at being a healthy person. An advice to seek professional help is a wonderful advice, if such a thought never occurred to the original poster. I bet though, that it is not a new thought for him, and he either sought advice, or decided not to seek it for some reason (such as financial). I am not opposed to him seeking treatment, of course. If he does seek treatment, I would be greatly intereested if he derived any benefit from it after, say, one year. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > >> In article <25c31967.0405140509.627bf8ce@posting.google.com>, > > ConstantRunner wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > which is not unheard of and is done by many athletic people. (check > out "warrior diet" on google) There is a difference between eating meals and binge eating. It's been explained to you repeatedly but you refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit in your tiny universe. > That said, he has some mental issues such as food obsessions etc, for > which he could seek help. He also would like to spend less time on > exercise, and maybe eat in a different manner. > > It appears (from the way I read his post) that his bulimia and such > are his history and not his present. The eating pattern and attitude toward food that the OP has expressed says that the eating disorder is not history. > How much he would get out of this professional help is not clear to > me, maybe a lot, maybe not. But even if he does get help, if he > remains an active exerciser at the same weight, he'd have an excellt > shot at being a healthy person. Not mentally, which will eventually have an effect on the physical. > An advice to seek professional help is a wonderful advice, if such a > thought never occurred to the original poster. I bet though, that it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would be greatly intereested if he derived any benefit from it after, > say, one year. Well it is so good that *you* aren't opposed to it since you are the arbiter of all that is right and wrong. If you want to know if people benefit from treatment for eating disorders, how about doing some research rather than rely on individual anecdotal information? Here are some resources for you to start with http://www.something-fishy.org/default.php >Let's see: this person weighs 130 lbs at 5'2", and exercises in a very >healthful manner daily. He also eats most of his food in the evening, >which is not unheard of and is done by many athletic people. (check >out "warrior diet" on google) I think he's saying he eats all of his food in the evening, not most of it. He's also implying he's not happy with that. 2600+ calories is a lot of food to pack away just in the evening, and would at the least lead to some discomfort, as I know from experience. >He or she is at normal weight and probably in a good physical health, >at least he gave us no reason to think otherwise. Being at normal weight doesn't necessarily mean this has been arrived at or maintained by healthy eating or an overall healthy lifestyle. >Is there anything incorrect in this description? > >That said, he has some mental issues such as food obsessions etc, for >which he could seek help. He also would like to spend less time on >exercise, and maybe eat in a different manner. This part was, for me, the core of his difficulties but you appear to see it as a minor issue to be dismissed as nothing very important. >It appears (from the way I read his post) that his bulimia and such >are his history and not his present. I didn't read it that way - he says "I would like to stop the insanity" which sounds to me like he is still in behaviour that he is unhappy with. >How much he would get out of this professional help is not clear to >me, maybe a lot, maybe not. But even if he does get help, if he >remains an active exerciser at the same weight, he'd have an excellt >shot at being a healthy person. To me, there's a strong suggestion coming from the whole post of a degree of obsessiveness both about eating and about exercising, which goes beyond having a totally normal attitude to both these things. Obviously the OP feels this as he wants to change things. >An advice to seek professional help is a wonderful advice, if such a >thought never occurred to the original poster. I bet though, that it >is not a new thought for him, and he either sought advice, or decided >not to seek it for some reason (such as financial). I am not opposed >to him seeking treatment, of course. Well, now he has your blessing perhaps he will do just that. Ig, I'm afraid everything I read in your reply to the OP shows yet again your total inability to understand types of behaviour in others that you have no personal experience of. IMO at best your advice is misguided and at worst to a vulnerable person (I'm not saying the OP is in this case) it could be down right dangerous. janice Janice, I appreciate your civility. See below. >>Let's see: this person weighs 130 lbs at 5'2", and exercises in a very >>healthful manner daily. He also eats most of his food in the evening, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Being at normal weight doesn't necessarily mean this has been arrived > at or maintained by healthy eating or an overall healthy lifestyle. That's right. >>Is there anything incorrect in this description? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This part was, for me, the core of his difficulties but you appear to > see it as a minor issue to be dismissed as nothing very important. Well, I did not intend to give an impression that I see it as a minor issue. I wanted to point out that his lifestyle -- eating all his food in the evening and exercising 70 minutes per day -- is not at all unhealthful, had it not been for his anguish and so on. I know a gentleman at the top of his health who also is at about the OP's weight/height ratio and eats only in the evening, and exercises intensely. He posts to misc.fitness.weights and can perform dozens of pullups in one set. Unlike the OP, he likes eating once a day, that's about the only difference. >>It appears (from the way I read his post) that his bulimia and such >>are his history and not his present. > I didn't read it that way - he says "I would like to stop the > insanity" which sounds to me like he is still in behaviour that he is > unhappy with. It seems to me that he said that he has a history of bulimia. Then he said right now he exercises a lot and eats only in the evening, which he does not like and considers insane. I interpreted this as saying that bulimia is in the past, but overexercising and eating once a day are his current problems. >>How much he would get out of this professional help is not clear to >>me, maybe a lot, maybe not. But even if he does get help, if he [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > goes beyond having a totally normal attitude to both these things. > Obviously the OP feels this as he wants to change things. I completely agree, not that I ever said otherwise. >>An advice to seek professional help is a wonderful advice, if such a >>thought never occurred to the original poster. I bet though, that it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > misguided and at worst to a vulnerable person (I'm not saying the OP > is in this case) it could be down right dangerous. Which part of my advise is misguided? To start with small adjustments to how he lives and look at his condition from its bright side? i ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > > Dear all, > > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > IOW, you have a convenience problem, not a health problem. WHAT??????????? You are an idiot!!!!!! I can't believe how stupid and deadly your advice is. This person has serious problems, ones that cannot be solved by a moron like you. CONVENIENCE?? WTF are you talking about? Congratulations, this is the dumbest post you've ever made. Constant Runner, I've been there. Get some help through counciling and soon, please. Martha > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} > "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." I second that nomination! Constant Runner... please don't head Ig's post and do seek help from a specialist. Many of us here know what it is like to have a binging eating disorder. I have a similar problem... but my binging isn't at one particular time during the day if I let myself get out of control. "MH" > WHAT??????????? You are an idiot!!!!!! I can't believe how stupid and deadly > your advice is. This person has serious problems, ones that cannot be solved [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} > > "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." What was the suggestion of your specialist? i > I second that nomination! > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} >> > "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."  Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." Counseling hasn't helped. I don't know what will. Here is a record of today: My neighbors were making noise and woke me up at 4:30. I got up at 5. By 5:18 I was out the door. I walked for an hour, about 4.4 miles. Then I took my dog out for a walk (2 miles). Then I went to the gym and did an hour on the elliptical trainer. When I got home, I tried eating breakfast, oatmeal. But I was so hungry that I ate some pretzles. This is out of character because I tend to not eat all day and then binge. I'm scared I'll binge all day if I eat at all. The thing is that I KNOW this isn't good for me. I feel guilty for eating at all. I don't understand why I've gained all this weight--10 lbs or so--in the last year.I was doing well last night, too, before I binged on dried papaya strips. It sounds healthy, but dried fruit has a lot of calories. I've been told that I'm in starvation mode, but even when I eat more than usual I just pack on more weight. If it were really starvation mode, wouldn't I end up losing weight? I've had my thyroid checked, and it came back normal. My doctor told me not to worry about my weight because I exercise so much. Then why am I gaining and gaining? I'm not eating any more than I used to. I'm eating less, in fact. I agree that I have eating disordered behavior, but no counselor or nutritionist I've seen in more than 10 years--I'm soon to be 30--has been able to help. I've literally gone to at least 5 professionals in the last two years. Most say that since I'm not skeletal, I'm not to worry. I even showed a nutritionist exactly what I'd eaten for three days, and she said, "Oh, this looks normal." I couldn't believe it! This was after showing her a "dinner" that included a medium pizza (16" round, I ate the whole thing), a one pound bag of M&Ms, two packages of cookies (6 or so in each), and some Twizzlers. When I told her I needed help, she said, "You don't look like you do." I realize no one here is qualified to treat an eating disorder, but I was hoping someone could relate or tell me how they stopped. And WHY is my body doing this? Gaining? Why? I will look for the book one of you suggested, on overcoming binge eating. I'd just about do anything to stop. Thank you, again. I appreciate your concern. > Counseling hasn't helped. I don't know what will. Here is a record of > today: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > thing is that I KNOW this isn't good for me. I feel guilty for eating > at all. The whole mental thing of being scared to eat because of gaining weight or losing control and binging is perpetuating the cycle. Counseling is difficult especially if the counselor doesn't really specialize in eating disorders. I don't have access to anyone like that in my area which is why I'm trying things on my own. > I agree that I have eating disordered behavior, but no counselor or > nutritionist I've seen in more than 10 years--I'm soon to be 30--has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > packages of cookies (6 or so in each), and some Twizzlers. When I told > her I needed help, she said, "You don't look like you do." Eating disorders require a little bit of specialization. They're misunderstood, even by professionals. I think when you read the book I recommended it might make you feel like someone finally understands. > I realize no one here is qualified to treat an eating disorder, but I > was hoping someone could relate or tell me how they stopped. And WHY > is my body doing this? Gaining? Why? Could be a lot of things. The first thing you might want to do if you can is to keep a daily record of everything you eat. You might be eating more than you think you are, especially when you're bingeing. It's also a way to start confronting the binge issue. Also, many nutrition experts believe that eating at regular intervals helps keep your metabolism up rather than eating all at once. > I will look for the book one of you suggested, on overcoming binge > eating. I'd just about do anything to stop. You can get it at Amazon. It will definitely give you ideas about how you can help yourself put an end to this cycle. > Thank you, again. I appreciate your concern. I wish you the best and definitely stay in touch. Jenn > Counseling hasn't helped. I don't know what will. Here is a record of > today: > > I've been told that I'm in starvation mode, but even when > I eat more than usual I just pack on more weight. If it were really > starvation mode, wouldn't I end up losing weight? NO! I'm just a guy on usenet, but my understanding is that starvation mode is where the body fights to hold onto every fat cell it can, scales back its metabolism (eg heat, protein synthesis & repair, and digestion) to conserve energy, and particularly likes to break down body proteins for fuel (the underfed WW2 POWs lost a *lot* of muscle). Starvation mode is a place you really don't want your body to be in. Slamming it with calorie deficits (skipping meals) during the day and over-exercising for hours on end, then piling on the fat at night before sleeping is, to this very untrained observer, the absolutely worst eating & exercise regimen you can do. I've been losing at a 2lb/week pace for over 3 months now, and do it by eating reasonable mealsnacks (~300 kcal each), with a good balance of carbs, fat, and protein. I also try to exercise at least an hour a day, though I also skip a day and do 2+ hours, too. I've regularlized my food intake sufficiently that I always have enough energy stores (glycogen) in my muscles and liver to not really get stressed or overly hungry after exercise. I exercise for muscle tone, increased metabolism, the cardio benefits, and general athletic capability (cycling stamina and hill-climbing ability). I for one feel exercising to only burn calories is the wrong way to go -- it's a form of self-torture. Exercising as a way to pay penance for eating treats is doubly wrong, like cutting off your nose to spite your face. > I exercise for muscle tone, increased metabolism, the cardio benefits, > and general athletic capability (cycling stamina and hill-climbing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Exercising as a way to pay penance for eating treats is doubly wrong, > like cutting off your nose to spite your face. So let me ask you since you sound like a reasonable person...do you agree that to tell someone that they should increase their exercise to burn off a 1-2 lb gain due to a binge in order to "understand the consequences of bingeing" is bad advice? Just curious. Jenn P.S. I happen to agree with everything you said. > > I exercise for muscle tone, increased metabolism, the cardio benefits, > > and general athletic capability (cycling stamina and hill-climbing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 1-2 lb gain due to a binge in order to "understand the consequences of > bingeing" is bad advice? Just curious. I'm not a psychiatrist, but maybe it would be educational . . . *ONCE* in a lifetime. When I started out I had that mentality, until I saw the kcal reading on the stairmaster go up so-o-o slowly; it was educational to me just how loaded with calories, in real terms, one In&Out meal is. I quickly figured out that trying to out-exercise my eating habits would be a very painful game, not to mention a collossal waste of time. 7000 kcal would require a whole week of 2-hr+ sessions -- if people think the trade-off is worth it ingest a 2lb splurge, I can't criticize them, other than questioning their need for that much junk food in the first place. Even my 1500-2000 kcal/day diet has room for the (very) occasional cheeseburger :) Thinking back on it, I did do this same thing earlier this month, going to a barbeque and over-eating (two hot-dogs, a cheeseburger, and a chicken-breast over ~6hrs). I didn't totally blow the diet, as I only drank water and did not partake in the pizza or ice cream, but I did intentionally double my exercise sessions before and after to not get too far off track. Looking back on it, this was a mistake perhaps, but I'm not going to obsess over it (everything in moderation, including moderation!). Heywood 232/204/182 -- 44"/39.5"/34" > Thinking back on it, I did do this same thing earlier this month, > going to a barbeque and over-eating (two hot-dogs, a cheeseburger, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but I'm not going to obsess over it (everything in moderation, > including moderation!). I don't think there's anything wrong with adding a little extra activity to compensate for extra eating. It's pretty much necessary to maintain a healthy weight. What I was agreeing with in your original comments were the whole mental process of associating exercise as a "punishment" for "bad behavior" (eating). It's classic eating disorder 101. You see and acknowledge that, others just can't. And yes, even if it was a mistake (only you can decide), it wouldn't be productive to beat yourself up for it or have someone do it to you. Jenn not perfect, never claimed to be, never going to be > I don't think there's anything wrong with adding a little extra activity to > compensate for extra eating. It's pretty much necessary to maintain a > healthy weight. Yeah, but there's that temptation, almost like procrastination, to get a extra little pleasure now for some extra pain down the road. I suppose if one structures their life, eg. takes walks in the morning to juice up their metabolism, then eating for pleasure is no great crime. Eating is and should be an enjoyable experience! I'm just thinking about the treadmill (literally and figuratively) I think people can get on, and maturity and moderation seem to be the best long-term way of life. > What I was agreeing with in your original comments were the > whole mental process of associating exercise as a "punishment" for "bad > behavior" (eating). It's classic eating disorder 101. You see and > acknowledge that, others just can't. Precisely. In the general case, the game is mostly mental I suppose. > And yes, even if it was a mistake (only you can decide), it wouldn't be > productive to beat yourself up for it or have someone do it to you. Though bingeing and purging via exercise may be as unhealthy as bulimia. >> I don't think there's anything wrong with adding a little extra activity to >> compensate for extra eating. It's pretty much necessary to maintain a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Though bingeing and purging via exercise may be as unhealthy as > bulimia. It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 calories, assuming an average sized person. That's a whole day walking, military style forced march. Doable, but difficult. Only possible if the binger has no job and no family to take care of. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge > and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 > calories, assuming an average sized person. That's a whole day > walking, military style forced march. Doable, but difficult. Only > possible if the binger has no job and no family to take care of. Then why do you advise people to do it? >> It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge >> and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Then why do you advise people to do it? I advise people to do what? To walk 30 miles to work off every binge? No, I do not advise that, because it is impractical. That said, if someone had time and health to walk 30 miles in a day, I would advise them to do something like that once in a while, just to see the limits of one's endurance. Forced marches are a part of military conditioning and they are helpful in helping people realize just how much they are capable of. Usually, military marches also involve carrying heavy items such as backpacks and mortars etc. I go hiking once in a great while, unfortunately I have not had time to do it since my son was born. Colorado is a great place for hiking, due to great scenery, high elevation, and a lot of CV exercise due to having to go up and down at relatively high elevation. I was there a few times, see pictures: http://igor.chudov.com/images/colorado/index.html It appears that you have been lying about ignoring me, all along, and instead have been meticulously following my posts (covering it up by suggestions that someone "forwarded you"my posts). You also lied about leaving recently, making a cheap drama queen scene, fishing for sympathy, and predictably have not left. Now you are following me around with stupid comments, such as falsely suggesting that I advice walking 30 miles to walk off binging, probably believing that you are a brave person standing up to abuse, or some other similar nonsense. I have not decided whether replying to you makes sense, but likely will reply to some of your posts in the future. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." Didn't you post in a long thread a while back that you would block JMA too??? This was per Dally's request and you said you would so you leave her alone. Didn't JMA leave you alone until you basically attached her last week? Aren't you calling the kettle black now?? Lying and changing a person's mind are 2 different things. You are apparently a liar since you aren't blocking her anymore either. Let me ask you this? Does putting cruel posts in the NG about people you don't like compensate for having a tiny penis? We have a bet going here.... We are wondering how a small minded man with an equally small wee wee can remind himself how to breath in and breath out daily. > Didn't you post in a long thread a while back that you would block JMA > too??? Yes, I did. > This was per Dally's request and you said you would so you leave her > alone. For some time. From my post as of 26 Feb: `` >> I will consider killfiling you for a couple of months. > > I think that's an excellent idea. Your entire post was about how right > you are and how flawed she is. You've completely missed the point of a > support group, where people can come with their flaws and get help in > managing them. Yes, she's got weight issues! But I think you're not > only way off base to presume that she's not handling them well, but > you're endangering her very METHOD of handling them when you criticize > her for getting support. > > You're doing more harm than good with your ham-handed attempts at > "helping". Kill-file her for both your sakes. > > Dally I just killfiled Jen for a couple months (expiration time on the entry). '' > Didn't JMA leave you alone until you basically attached her last > week? Aren't you calling the kettle black now?? Lying and changing > a person's mind are 2 different things. You are apparently a liar > since you aren't blocking her anymore either. Well, I see nothing in my actions that would be inconsistent with killfiling her for 2 months on Feb 26. > Let me ask you this? Does putting cruel posts in the NG about > people you don't like compensate for having a tiny penis? We have a > bet going here.... We are wondering how a small minded man with an > equally small wee wee can remind himself how to breath in and breath > out daily. Look, PG, people living in glass houses should not throw stones. Please try to think how this applies to you personally. I can explain, but I would rather not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." >>>It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge >>>and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I advise people to do what? To walk 30 miles to work off every binge? > No, I do not advise that, because it is impractical. Actually, I remember you advising participants in this newsgroup to exercise off the 1-2 pound weight gain that s/he had after a binge -- and of course that weight may not even have been related to the binge and could have just been water weight. Signaturejmk in NC >>>>It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge >>>>and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and of course that weight may not even have been related to the binge > and could have just been water weight. I know that my posts are not findable in google, but it would be good to see a more specific text of what I suggested. You know, exercising off 2 pounds of fat is a huge challenge! I did have one day last year when I manually tilled a large lawn area into a garden, for like 8 hours, and then walked for 110 minutes. It was something like 2,000 calories deficit in one day. My readings on the military life suggest that the topmost of how much energy soldiers spend in compat, is about 10,000 calories per day. That would be diging trenches, carrying boxes with artillery shells, hiking in the mountains etc. Beyond the ability of the average dude like myself, I think. I hate to say it, but I do not see what is wrong with exercising more after overeating, of course within reason. I feel quite bad physically whenever I overeat, and exercising somehow helps me feel a little better. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." >>>>>It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge >>>>>and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to see a more specific text of what I suggested. You know, exercising > off 2 pounds of fat is a huge challenge! Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers it. If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. Signaturejmk in NC > Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers it. > If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider > changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. lesson #33: never argue with anonymous posters with x-no-archive headers... >> Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers it. >> If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider >> changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. > >lesson #33: never argue with anonymous posters with x-no-archive headers... google for followups to that post. >>Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers it. >>If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider >>changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. > > lesson #33: never argue with anonymous posters with x-no-archive headers... It seems like x-no-archive headers are pointless. You can search on the body of the posts for someone's email address.......fake or not. Steve >>> Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers >>> it. If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It seems like x-no-archive headers are pointless. You can search on > the body of the posts for someone's email address.......fake or not. and see quotes from their posts Steve > > Well, you certainly said it and I'm not the only one who remembers it. > > If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider > > changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. > > lesson #33: never argue with anonymous posters with x-no-archive headers... Yes, and let us not forget Lesson #1: Never argue with idiots who actually call themselves Irgnoramuses.... Martha will take those posters seriously the next time, they really do know nothing... jmk wrote [...] .. > > I know that my posts are not findable in google, but it would be good > > to see a more specific text of what I suggested. You know, exercising [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you want to be searchable in Google then maybe you should consider > changing the headers on your posts that prevent that. This place may be of some use: http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.diet Rogue >>>>It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge >>>>and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and of course that weight may not even have been related to the binge > and could have just been water weight. I just realized that I have a complete archive of my recent posts, thanks to my newsreader's archive file. If you can suggest a few search terms, I could try to do some grepping, to see just what I said on this topic. Since the terms are a litle generic, it may be hard to find. Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." [...] >You also lied about >leaving recently, making a cheap drama queen scene, fishing for >sympathy, and predictably have not left. [...] Way out of line. Besides were *you* lying when you posted you were glad she didn't leave? Rogue > [...] >>You also lied about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Besides were *you* lying when you posted you were glad she didn't leave? Well, I do not mind her presence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > In article <e56c5013f7decf410f05164f103b3835@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>, Rogue wrote: > > [...] > >>You also lied about [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Well, I do not mind her presence. Why would you? You love beating up on people you think are inferior to you. Oh, that means every women on the planet, doesn't it? Martha > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} > "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." I bet he is nice to his chickens because they aren't inferior. They're not males because they lay eggs... hmmm.. I am confused. Seriously, we should stop giving him the satisfaction of knowing how annoying he is. It just fuels his limp little fire. "MH" <bastzine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:yQeqc.17676 > Why would you? You love beating up on people you think are inferior to you. > Oh, that means every women on the planet, doesn't it? > > Martha > I bet he is nice to his chickens because they aren't inferior. They're not > males because they lay eggs... hmmm.. I am confused. Seriously, we should > stop giving him the satisfaction of knowing how annoying he is. It just > fuels his limp little fire. I am doubtful that you could actually ignore me PG... Same goes for Martha... i > "MH" <bastzine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:yQeqc.17676 >> Why would you? You love beating up on people you think are inferior to > you. >> Oh, that means every women on the planet, doesn't it? >> >> Martha Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > >> It is hard to exercise off consequences of a bad binge. Say, I binge > >> and eat 3,000 calories. It would take 30 miles walked to spend 3,000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I advise people to do what? To walk 30 miles to work off every binge? > No, I do not advise that, because it is impractical. You advise people to "Work off that one pound to know that binges have consequences." So yes, you are right, you do not advise people to walk 30 miles to work off every binge. > It appears that you have been lying about ignoring me, all along, and > instead have been meticulously following my posts (covering it up by > suggestions that someone "forwarded you"my posts). No, actually, I took you out of the killfile a few days ago. I haven't meticulously followed anything since November, however there are 2 lurkers who I have relationships with in my real life and 3 active members of this NG, who have let me know about your cheap shots and general rude remarks. Add to that replies to your posts where your original remarks are left in and it doesn't take a rocket scientist. You really do give yourself too much credit. > You also lied about > leaving recently, making a cheap drama queen scene, fishing for > sympathy, and predictably have not left. Now who is resorting to name calling? Here I've done my best not to call you any names, even when addressing you directly in posts the last few days and you have to go and ruin it. Anyway, had you followed along you would know that I was convinced not to leave by a number of excellent private emails and the wisdom of my own DH who was able to convince me not to let a person like you determine my actions or keep me from doing what I enjoy or need. > Now you are following me around with stupid comments, such as falsely > suggesting that I advice walking 30 miles to walk off binging, probably > believing that you are a brave person standing up to abuse, or some > other similar nonsense. LOL, I never claimed you advised people to walk 30 miles. That's your warped interpretation. You advised me to work off a binge so I'd know the consequences. Funny thing is that *I* don't seem to be the only one who remembered it, but yet you neglect to mention that. Who is trying to believe they are the victim here? As far as "following you around" you need to get real. *You* have been taking cheap shots at me for months, not directly - but we know who you're talking about, and then you go ahead and do mention me by name in a rude manner (to which numerous people referred to as stupid as I recall) in a thread I wasn't even a part of. Let me reiterate - I'm not the only one who has had a problem with you doing this to me. > I have not decided whether replying to you makes sense, but likely > will reply to some of your posts in the future. Oh goody. I'm just holding my breath in anticipation. >> You also lied about >> leaving recently, making a cheap drama queen scene, fishing for >> sympathy, and predictably have not left. > > Now who is resorting to name calling? Here I've done my best not to call > you any names, "ignorant a.shole" seems to be a staple phrase in your vocabulary. > even when addressing you directly in posts the last few days > and you have to go and ruin it. Anyway, had you followed along you would > know that I was convinced not to leave by a number of excellent private > emails and the wisdom of my own DH who was able to convince me not to let a > person like you determine my actions or keep me from doing what I enjoy or > need. Jennifer, if my posts truly make you reconsider your dieting and participation in this newsgroup, I will try to do my best to ignore you, for a while. All throughout, I did not feel that that was the case (me influencing your diet choices), but if you say so, I will try to make an effort to back off and not mention you by name or allusion, within reason. That is, if someone asks if crash diets make sense, I would say what I think, or I could offer some opinion about eating disorders etc. But, these are my opinions, true or not, that are not designed to primarily insult you, and when I offer them, I would try to state them so that they do not sound like thinly veiled stabs at you. > As far as "following you around" you need to get real. *You* have been > taking cheap shots at me for months, not directly - but we know who you're > talking about, and then you go ahead and do mention me by name in a rude > manner (to which numerous people referred to as stupid as I recall) in a > thread I wasn't even a part of. Let me reiterate - I'm not the only one who > has had a problem with you doing this to me. I understand that. My perception of what was happening was that we were trading barbs. You would call me an ignorant a.shole, and from time to time I would note something bad about you. Nothing unfair in my eyes. Normal usenet stuff. Just like in other newsgroups. Apparently, this exchange upsets you a lot more than it upsets me. I never felt that this typical usenet exchange of barbs would make you so upset as to make you reconsider your diet and staying here. It is not my intention to make you give up dieting or this newsgroup, if it is truly a lifeline for you. >> I have not decided whether replying to you makes sense, but likely >> will reply to some of your posts in the future. > > Oh goody. I'm just holding my breath in anticipation. This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be obnoxious, I will reconsider. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > >> You also lied about > >> leaving recently, making a cheap drama queen scene, fishing for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "ignorant a.shole" seems to be a staple phrase in your vocabulary. It hasn't been since I stopped speaking to you before. I haven't used the term to refer to you in this new go round, now have I? All it does is give you something to whine about to deflect attention from your own bad behavior. > > even when addressing you directly in posts the last few days > > and you have to go and ruin it. Anyway, had you followed along you would [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to state them so that they do not sound like thinly veiled stabs at > you. You aren't affecting my dieting choices as you don't have that kind of power. What you do is make life in this group extremely unpleasant and not conducive to actual support. How exactly is telling someone not to lose half one's body weight in 10 months not a stab at me? It's a little too precise to be coincidence. How about the digs at meal replacement shakes? How about mentioning me by name specifically? This is just in the last few weeks. How exactly am I not supposed to take it as an insult? It's not just me being sensitive in this case. Those things were sent to me by *other* people who took them just as I did once I read them. As far as your opinions go on eating disorders, you would be doing yourself and others a big favor by educating yourself on them. In spite of your personal opinions on the field of psychiatry, it's not really all psychobabble and has some validity. Take the time to learn about what a person with a genuine eating disorder goes through because the advice you give contradicts what is considered good practice in the field. > > As far as "following you around" you need to get real. *You* have been > > taking cheap shots at me for months, not directly - but we know who you're [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Apparently, this exchange upsets you a lot more than it upsets me. Yet, there was no actual exchange since I began ignoring you in November. Yet, you continued on. An exchange implies two sides. I occasionally responded to things that were obviously rude and offensive, and when called on the carpet you normally chose not to reply. Again, one-sided does not equal exchange. You've targeted me consistently and it's something that has been brought to your attention and mine by others. > I never felt that this typical usenet exchange of barbs would make you > so upset as to make you reconsider your diet and staying here. It is > not my intention to make you give up dieting or this newsgroup, if it > is truly a lifeline for you. You'll never have the power to get me to give up on my own health. I had decided to leave the group because it was just not real fun to be targeted, but as stated before I'm not giving you that power. I do however make it a point in my life to stay away from toxic people whenever possible and usenet is no exception. > >> I have not decided whether replying to you makes sense, but likely > >> will reply to some of your posts in the future. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be > obnoxious, I will reconsider. Do whatever you want. I will continue to generally ignore you and your presence. However, I will not stand by and let bad or potentially dangerous advice go unchallenged. In your book that generally constitues being obnoxious. Oh well. TEE HEE! > Do whatever you want. I will continue to generally ignore you and your > presence. However, I will not stand by and let bad or potentially dangerous > advice go unchallenged. In your book that generally constitues being > obnoxious. Oh well. >> This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not >> upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > advice go unchallenged. In your book that generally constitues being > obnoxious. Oh well. Try learning to be "civil" when you participate in disputes. It is possible! Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." >>>This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not >>>upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Try learning to be "civil" when you participate in disputes. It is > possible! Uh, you might consider doing the same. Signaturejmk in NC >>>>This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not >>>>upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> > Uh, you might consider doing the same. I will try to make some effort. Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > >> This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not > >> upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Try learning to be "civil" when you participate in disputes. It is > possible! It is? Just because you don't call me a bitch doesn't mean you've been civil. HTH HAND >> >> This is kind of a bad conflict, but I will make some attempt to not >> >> upset you too much, we'll see how far it goes. If you choose to be [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It is? Just because you don't call me a bitch doesn't mean you've been > civil. Well, I think, not cussing goes a long way towards being civil, not that it is the only component of civility. Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > "Ignoramus4854" <ignoramus4854@NOSPAM.4854.invalid> wrote in message >>I advise people to do what? To walk 30 miles to work off every binge? >>No, I do not advise that, because it is impractical. > > You advise people to "Work off that one pound to know that binges have > consequences." So yes, you are right, you do not advise people to walk 30 > miles to work off every binge. Ah! Good work JMA! When was that he said that? About November 2, 2003? Hmmm. Clearly he *would* advise trying to "work off" a binge. Signaturejmk in NC > Though bingeing and purging via exercise may be as unhealthy as > bulimia. It's referred to as "exercise bulimia" and in conjunction with other factors is a symptom of an eating disorder. While it is primarily practiced by anorexics, it's not unusual for it to be in the repertoire of a traditional bulimic (one who purges by vomiting or laxative/diuretic abuse). In the book I just finished on binge eating disorders, the author mentions that excessive exercise perpetuates the binge cycle because the person convinces her/him self that they've worked off enough calories so that the food won't cause weight gain. The more you exercise, the more you can eat, etc... Jenn <snip> >This was after showing her a "dinner" that included a medium pizza >(16" round, I ate the whole thing), a one pound bag of M&Ms, two >packages of cookies (6 or so in each), and some Twizzlers. When I told >her I needed help, she said, "You don't look like you do." <snip> That doesn't sound too bad considering how much you exercise and you eat practically nil during the day. How's your overall physique, has your weight been climbing up steadily or just fluctuates week to week? Feel tired/weak throughout the day? HAMBURGER 345/173/180 Started March'03 > HAMBURGER > 345/173/180 > Started March'03 Nice to see you doing so well. I am also 173/180. Signature---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > Counseling hasn't helped. I don't know what will. Here is a record of > today: May I ask, what kinds of counselors have you seen? Have you ever been diagnosed with other disorders, such as, just for example sake, obsessive compulsive disorder, or, as another example, depression? Do you have any other disordered behaviors other than food behaviors? If you have any disorders diagnosed, have you obtained treatment for them? Also, have you seen an endocrinologist? (you do mention that you had your thyroid checked, were the TSH/ thyroid hormone levels close to the normal boundary?) > My neighbors were making noise and woke me up at 4:30. I got up at 5. > By 5:18 I was out the door. I walked for an hour, about 4.4 miles. Cool sounds close to my normal morning, so far (substitute a kid who does not sleep well, for noisy neighbors). Sorry about the noisy neighbors. > Then I took my dog out for a walk (2 miles). Then I went to the gym > and did an hour on the elliptical trainer. When I got home, I tried [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thing is that I KNOW this isn't good for me. I feel guilty for eating > at all. Note that your description of your morning included a lot of exercise, and then you became hungry and ate a very moderate meal. Again, so far, the only abnormal thing here is your feeling of guilt, and also maybe too much time spent exercising, in the sense that it apparently interferes with your life.. > I don't understand why I've gained all this weight--10 lbs or > so--in the last year.I was doing well last night, too, before I binged > on dried papaya strips. It sounds healthy, but dried fruit has a lot > of calories. I've been told that I'm in starvation mode, but even when > I eat more than usual I just pack on more weight. I would see no reason why you would be in "starvation mode". > If it were really starvation mode, wouldn't I end up losing weight? > I've had my thyroid checked, and it came back normal. My doctor told > me not to worry about my weight because I exercise so much. Then why > am I gaining and gaining? I'm not eating any more than I used > to. I'm eating less, in fact. People are notorious for "misunderestimating" how much they eat, espesially if they eat irregularly or binge. You would need to keep a log of what you eat, for a couple of weeks. > I agree that I have eating disordered behavior, but no counselor or > nutritionist I've seen in more than 10 years--I'm soon to be 30--has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > packages of cookies (6 or so in each), and some Twizzlers. When I told > her I needed help, she said, "You don't look like you do." No, obviously you do have a problem, since all this exercise and obsessions do interfere with your life. It's just that you compensate relatively well and do not grow into becoming a 300 lbs person, at least yet. Try to see the silver lining here. > I realize no one here is qualified to treat an eating disorder, but I > was hoping someone could relate or tell me how they stopped. And WHY [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thank you, again. I appreciate your concern. My thinking here is: 1. There is no obvious and simple solution to your problem (like suggestions to "see a specialist" that were predictably pointless) 2. You are compensating for your eating issues and are doing not nearly as badly as some people would in your circumstances. 3. So, there is no "health emergency", but rather a long term problem thet deserves a long term effort to find a solution 4. You would benefit from hanging out here for a while, at least because you can find people like yourself, who can sympathize with your issues and listen to you without being judgmental As you sound like an intelligent person, try experimenting a little bit. For example, you could try to pack all your food for the next day, in the evening before, in some plastic containers. Pack a lot of food, not with the goal of losing weight, and eat only it. Maybe some structure would help. You seem to have spare time, maybe you are not employed at the moment? If so, can you go hiking someplace for a few days, with the right quantity of food? Or, perhaps, try to eat dramatically more vegetables (increasing the quantity gradually). That way, you continue your stomach stuffing behaviors, but with less harm? That's what I like doing. Try to be a little creative, maybe you would need to try several things before you find something that works. Worst case is, if you find nothing that works, your exercising does provide you with some cushion against rapid weight gain. Just some helpful common sense, decision making suggestions. Personally, I am always somewhat hungry, and also find some compensating behaviors helpful. For instance, during the week I pack my lunches and breakfast on the day before, and I also eat a lage quantity of raw vegetables. It helps and it works for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." > Counseling hasn't helped. I don't know what will. Here is a record of > today: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > gaining? I'm not eating any more than I used to. I'm eating less, in > fact. Hi CR... What type of counselor or nutritionists have you seen? Are they specialist on eating disorders? The psychologist that I saw for about 4-5 months helped me pinpoint some of my triggers and made me more aware of them. My binging is different then yours, as I don't starve myself during the day. My binging is emotionally charged. It is a daily struggle for me too. What keeps me from going over the edge is logging in a food journal and mentally facing my issues before I open the fridge. I do well most of the time, but I am not perfect and have had bad days as well. I, by no means, am an expert in what you are going through. I do know what it is like to have issues with food and body. Here is my interpretation of what is going on with the weight gain. Please keep in mind that I am not an expert and this is my opinion. Starvation mode is caused when you don't eat. When you don't eat, like the way you spend your day, your body shuts down and hangs onto every bit of fat it can to keep you from starving to death. It does sound like you put yourself in starvation mode during the day. When you stuff yourself at night, your body doesn't process the food properly. Since you are in starvation mode, it holds onto the extra food in its stores. Starvation mode also wrecks metabolism and slows it down. Since you get a lot of exercise, your metabolism isn't as wrecked as it could be. Hence, you only gained 10 lbs instead of 100 lbs. In addition, you are eating at night before going to bed. When sleeping, your metabolism is at its lowest point. > I agree that I have eating disordered behavior, but no counselor or > nutritionist I've seen in more than 10 years--I'm soon to be 30--has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > packages of cookies (6 or so in each), and some Twizzlers. When I told > her I needed help, she said, "You don't look like you do." Your nutritionist needed to be smacked around for pretending they know what they are talking about. As you know, your whole dinner consisted of calorie dense food with poor nutritional value. How long have you been doing this to yourself?? When did you start? Do you know what caused you to start? I feel for you. > I realize no one here is qualified to treat an eating disorder, but I > was hoping someone could relate or tell me how they stopped. And WHY > is my body doing this? Gaining? Why? I think I addressed many of these questions, from my standpoint, above. > I will look for the book one of you suggested, on overcoming binge > eating. I'd just about do anything to stop. I plan on buying that book as well. Let me know how you like it. Best wishes.. > Thank you, again. I appreciate your concern. > Dear all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Constant You need to get help for your eating disorder. What you are doing (your eating pattern) isn't healthy and you appear to have figured that out already. This is moreso for the mental aspect than the physical unless you're purging. It will truly interfere with all aspects of your life is it hasn't already. If you aren't comfortable seeking professional help from someone who specializes in eating disorders (common among people with eating disorders), there are some self-help programs you could look into. Overcoming Binge Eating by Christopher Fairburn is highly recommended by people in the field of eating disorders. I read the book (very educational) and only recently started the recovery program so I can't vouch for its effectiveness yet. There are other programs out there and a lot of resources. This website offers a long list of resources: http://www.something-fishy.org/default.php There are people out there, including in ASD who have no idea what it really means to have an eating disorder and will give advice that will only perpetuate the cycle and cause more damage. Real eating disorders aren't cured in the Nike fashion ("Just stop doing it"). If there is any other help I can offer you please let me know. Jenn If you know binging is hurting you and you can't stop, please get professional help. Much as we would like to help, I don't think there is anybody here professionally equipped for it. > Dear all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Constant |
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