A new approach...

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Michael Plumridge - 13 May 2004 23:42 GMT

Hi there. I posted about a week ago about my struggles with my body fat
reduction plan. I had lost about 28 pounds (mostly lean mass) in 40 days as
a result of moderate calorie counting, and while I had done some lifting I
had not done any cardio. At the time, I was still under the impression that
a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. And so I came here and was given a big
heads up and a link to site about dieting for fat loss and I have finally
gotten around to making the necessary changes. Cardio, macronutrients, small
calorie deficits, and plenty of protein are the order of the day now.
I have not yet had my body fat accurately measured, but if I go by the tape
measure methods on the web it all comes out to around 25 percent. I want to
get down to around 15 percent, with a flatter tummy. It's currently at 38
inches at the navel, yuck for my body weight.

I work nights, so my plan is going to differ a bit from the rest of you. It
begins in the pm and ends in the am...

6:30 Wake up and work out or lift weights, alternating days. Upon finishing
workout, I have a 20g low carb MetRx Whey Shake and a half portion of a high
protein dinner. Tonight it was a really hearty chicken vegetable soup with
25 grams of protein per cup.

9:30 Just before work, a larger portion of the same dinner.

12:30 Work - usually a whey protein bar around 340 calories/30 grams of
protein

3:30 Work - Roasted peanuts or stick of cheese, small serving

6:45 Home From work - Small whey shake with milk and fruit

9:45 Breakfast - Today it was an egg and cheese sandwich that came in around
360 calories and 20 grams of protein.

Obviously I'm still fine tuning things and I'm very open to suggestions but
I'd like to see where I get with this. I think I need to keep calories
around 1800 a day and protein as high as possible. It's tough as meat is so
expensive and the shakes and bars are a life saver.

Does flavored low-fat yogurt have too much sugar to be included in the sort
of body fat loss that I'm seeking, and if not, when would be the best time
to eat it?

I'm open to any cottage cheese or avocado suggestions, too. I need to find a
way to get these in my diet. I finally gave tuna a shot. The smell had
always disgusted me but I really liked it and it's full of protein, so yeah.
Good stuff.

I don't know, that's my update. I've really been enjoying reading the posts
in this group so far. Lots of inspirational stuff and lots of good
information and helpful suggestions so far and that's great.

Thanks

Mike

196/172/?
If I could measure body fat, I'd put that right here.

Reply to this Message

Ignoramus27444 - 14 May 2004 01:30 GMT

Your food plan is pretty decent, but your exercise plan is not as
developed. I would add a solid hour of exercise, such as walking. Or
maybe 40 minutes walking and 20 minutes running, watching your
knees. It's up to you to choose, but weight loss is going to be much
easier with cardio. You already mentioned weightlifting, you can do a
lot of it or just calisthenics. You can become extremely strong doing
calisthenics only, and it's cheap. Gyms are fine also, obviously. I
would like to question your conclusion that you only lost lean mass,
what is the evidence for that?

i

> Hi there. I posted about a week ago about my struggles with my body fat
> reduction plan. I had lost about 28 pounds (mostly lean mass) in 40 days as
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> 196/172/?
> If I could measure body fat, I'd put that right here.

Signature

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Reply to this Message

Michael Plumridge - 14 May 2004 01:33 GMT

> Your food plan is pretty decent, but your exercise plan is not as
> developed. I would add a solid hour of exercise, such as walking. Or
> maybe 40 minutes walking and 20 minutes running, watching your
> knees.

I think I'm going to stick with my current plan for a month or so and see if
my conditioning gets better because I'm pathetically out of shape at this
point. I'll gradually increase my time running but for now my knees and
lungs kill me after about a mile of jogging. As for the walking, I think I
get a lot of that in at work. I work nights alone at a convenience store and
so I'm constantly moving. So much so that I've noticed that eating the same
things I eat during the work week, I do not lose anything on my days off.
Maybe I should walk on those days and do the running every other day as I've
been doing.

> I would like to question your conclusion that you only lost lean mass,
> what is the evidence for that?

Well, in the beginning my plan was just about cutting calories. I did lose
quite a bit of weigh, but only an inch or so from my stomach. I was eating
around 1500 calories a day, which is probably a daily deficit of 1000
calories as compared to how many I need. Wouldn't that result in too much
lean mass being burned? I need to buy some fat calipers, asap. My sides and
thighs thinned out a bit and I started to get pecs, which were probably
mostly due to the lifting. Oh, I'm also doing crunches and pushups during
my weight workouts.

Thanks so much for the reply.

One more question for everyone, is there a general consensus opinion as to
how far my last meal of the day should be from the time I go to sleep? I've
heard two hours as a good measuring stick. Let's see, I generally go to
sleep around noon, so that would put my last meal around 9:45 in the
morning. Which would completely rule out the fast food temptation, even
though I only get a cheeseburger and a small fry when I go anymore. I think
I answered my own question.

-Mike-
."

Reply to this Message

Ignoramus27444 - 14 May 2004 02:59 GMT

>> Your food plan is pretty decent, but your exercise plan is not as
>> developed. I would add a solid hour of exercise, such as walking. Or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> point. I'll gradually increase my time running but for now my knees and
> lungs kill me after about a mile of jogging.

If you can run a mile, you are not pathetically out of shape.

Just simply somewhat out of shape.

> As for the walking, I think I
> get a lot of that in at work. I work nights alone at a convenience store and
> so I'm constantly moving. So much so that I've noticed that eating the same
> things I eat during the work week, I do not lose anything on my days off.
> Maybe I should walk on those days and do the running every other day as I've
> been doing.

You see, this sort of moving about does not burn as many calories as
sustained walking, although it is great that yo get to move at work.

>> I would like to question your conclusion that you only lost lean mass,
>> what is the evidence for that?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> mostly due to the lifting. Oh, I'm also doing crunches and pushups during
> my weight workouts.

sounds like you are losing fat also! Cheap calipers will set you back
about $5.99 on ebay.

> Thanks so much for the reply.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> though I only get a cheeseburger and a small fry when I go anymore. I think
> I answered my own question.

for myself, I do not eat after 6 pm, and go to bed at 10:30.

That's because it was hard to control night time eating for me. other
things work for other people differently.

i

> -Mike-
> ."

Signature

Reply to this Message

Chris Braun - 14 May 2004 04:18 GMT

>That's because it was hard to control night time eating for me. other
>things work for other people differently.

Ig makes a point that I thought of after I posted my response, which
is that if eating at night is a trigger for you to eat too much or
unhealthy things, then you might want to just make a rule for yourself
that you're not going to do it. I don't believe there's any
physiological reason for not eating close to bedtime (assuming it
doesn't give you indigestion or whatever), but there may be
psychological/behavioral ones.

Chris

Reply to this Message

Lictor - 14 May 2004 08:16 GMT

> Ig makes a point that I thought of after I posted my response, which
> is that if eating at night is a trigger for you to eat too much or
> unhealthy things, then you might want to just make a rule for yourself
> that you're not going to do it.

(Actually in reply to OP)
Gaining weight is a rather well documented side-effect (among others, like
breast cancers for women) of working night shifts. Just like rats gain
weight if forced to feed during the day (they normally eat at night). We're
meant to be day animals, and it seems that going against that nature somehow
messes up our regulation system. Maybe it's because it's stressful, and
cortisol levels raise as a result. Or maybe it's the same phenomenon as in
seasonnal depression - lack of exposure to daylight being a downer. It's not
really a matter of eating close to bedtime, as long as most of the meals are
taken during the day, the body seems to regulate that one meal just fine.
This can be compounded with overall lack of sleep, which tends to fight off
weight loss.

Here's a link (just from a quick google search: +"night shift" +obesity) :
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Shiftwork_and_its
_effects_on_the_body?OpenDocument

You can try to get as much daylight as you can, especially while eating. For
instance, you can have your day meals with windows wide open or outside. You
could also try walking back from work if it's possible, in order to get some
daylight and wind down from work to get better quality sleep. Having one
short nap in addition to your "night" might help if you're sleep deprived.
There are special light bulbs made for people with seasonnal depression.
They mimick daylight pretty closely. Maybe it could help to use such a light
at work, at least in the room where you have your meals. Outside of the
meals, it seems bright light are actually harmful, maybe dimming them would
be an option.

(OP said)

>I'll gradually increase my time running but for now my knees and
>lungs kill me after about a mile of jogging. As for the walking, I think I
>get a lot of that in at work.

Then just walk, if your knees hurt, it's a good sign that you should go easy
on them. It seems that as far as cardio is concerned, most of the positive
health effects come from duration, not intensity. So, walking an hour is
doing more good than jogging for 15 minutes and falling from exhaustion.
Walking at work might help, since some studies have shown that the positive
effects are rather cumulative (ie, walking for 10 + 10 + 10 minutes comes
close to the overall effect of walking for 30 minutes). You can always try
to walk a bit faster at work to modulate the intensity.

> I was eating around 1500 calories a day, which is probably a daily deficit

of 1000

> calories as compared to how many I need. Wouldn't that result in too much
> lean mass being burned?

No, 1500 is still reasonnable, it's lowish, but not really very low. Some
people diet bellow the 1200 mark, and that's where they do lose lean mass
(if they don't work out and do that for an extended period of time). As long
as you don't cut proteins, things should be fine. As a rule, any diet will
burn *some* lean mass. You can offset that by doing work outs. The goal is
to get a good fat/lean mass loss ratio.

> I need to buy some fat calipers, asap. My sides and
> thighs thinned out a bit and I started to get pecs, which were probably
> mostly due to the lifting. Oh, I'm also doing crunches and pushups during
> my weight workouts.

Then, you built some lean mass, as you noticed ;) This means building some
bulk, so this might explain why you didn't lose that much in the waist area.
That's where feeling how firm things feel is a good indicator. For instance,
I lost maybe less than inch on my thighs, but in some part of them
(especially front), I do have a *lot* less fat, as I can't feel the fat
layer under the skin anymore - that's because I have been doing a lot of
brisk walking.
Another possible explanation is that you lost most of the fat elsewhere. ;)
If you are obese enough that fat spread from the belly to the butt and
thighs, you will lose fat in these later areas first. The last areas you
gained fat in will be the first to go.

> One more question for everyone, is there a general consensus opinion as to
> how far my last meal of the day should be from the time I go to sleep?

I've

> heard two hours as a good measuring stick.

I don't think you will find a consensus.
I have always been a late evening eater, usually I have dinner at 10-11pm,
and this hasn't changed. Dinner is also my main meal. Yet, I lose weight
fine. Many countries are culturally late eaters, the whole mediterrannea is.
Yet, they don't have an higher obesity rate than the rest - actually, the
worst country in Europe is the UK while Spain and Italy are doing ok. But I
do have all my other meals at daytime, and things have improved since I
stopped trying to live like a caveman and started having my meals in broad
daylight.

Reply to this Message

JMA - 14 May 2004 19:28 GMT

> >That's because it was hard to control night time eating for me. other
> >things work for other people differently.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Chris

Physiologically speaking I believe that eating before bed might contribute
to acid reflux or heartburn in those more prone to it (DH for example), but
for the rest of us it's not too bad unless it triggers more eating as you
said. Every healthy nutrition program I've looked at that involved losing
fat and minimizing LBM loss & increasing metabolism recommends eating 6x a
day at approximately 3 hr intervals so that would require some kind of
evening snack for most people.

Jenn

Reply to this Message

Beverly - 14 May 2004 20:08 GMT

> > >That's because it was hard to control night time eating for me. other
> > >things work for other people differently.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Jenn

I have trouble going to sleep if I'm hungry when I go to bed. Many a night
I've raided the fridge right before going to bed for this very reason. A
few grapes, cheese stick, etc seems to ease the hunger and I can fall
asleep.

Reply to this Message

Ignoramus32552 - 14 May 2004 19:37 GMT

>>That's because it was hard to control night time eating for me. other
>>things work for other people differently.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> unhealthy things, then you might want to just make a rule for yourself
> that you're not going to do it.

That is a correct description of my personal situation, yes. Not
eating after an early dinner helps me stay away from the fridge.

> I don't believe there's any
> physiological reason for not eating close to bedtime (assuming it
> doesn't give you indigestion or whatever), but there may be
> psychological/behavioral ones.

Well, for some reason, I think that it is nice to give my digestive
system some rest. Whenever I do eat late (like when Igo to a
restaurant for someone's birthday), I feel not as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Reply to this Message

MH - 16 May 2004 02:38 GMT

> >> Your food plan is pretty decent, but your exercise plan is not as
> >> developed. I would add a solid hour of exercise, such as walking. Or
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> If you can run a mile, you are not pathetically out of shape.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! You are going to kill someone some day.

If one's knees hurt them, then stop running!!!!!! As a former distance
runner I know a world more than ignorant ever will.

If your knees hurt, then there may be one of many things wrong:
One of the things could be that you may have the wrong shoes, pleaes get
your feet fit at a running store, not a sporting goods warehouse

Martha

> Just simply somewhat out of shape.
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}

> "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Reply to this Message

Chris Braun - 14 May 2004 04:16 GMT

>One more question for everyone, is there a general consensus opinion as to
>how far my last meal of the day should be from the time I go to sleep? I've
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>though I only get a cheeseburger and a small fry when I go anymore. I think
>I answered my own question.

You will get differing opinions on this, but in my experience and
based on my understanding of things, it doesn't make any difference
when you eat. I've managed to lose 110 lbs. while frequently eating
right before I go to sleep.

Chris (just finishing an energy bar, and about to go to bed)
262/152/ (145-150)

Reply to this Message

Perple Gyrl - 15 May 2004 01:33 GMT

Hi Michael,

Are you low carbing? Are you drinking tons of water? I don't see a lot of
veggies and fruits listed. If you are low carbing, you really need to
increase your leafy green veggie consumption. There are some really good
low or non-fat plain yogurts out there that you can mix up in protein shake.

Reply to this Message

Michael Plumridge - 15 May 2004 13:49 GMT

First of all, thanks for the reply.

> Are you low carbing? Are you drinking tons of water? I don't see a lot of
> veggies and fruits listed. If you are low carbing, you really need to
> increase your leafy green veggie consumption. There are some really good
> low or non-fat plain yogurts out there that you can mix up in protein shake.

I've just started drinking lots of water. I was drinking diet pop for the
longest time and it was rough to go throw caffiene withdrawals but i
definitely feel better now. Some days, I'll have a salad and I have been
eating bananas, but I'm completely opent o specific suggestions. As for
yogurt, yeah, I love the stuff - low fat and otherwise. So you think I
should go with the nonflavored stuff in my whey shake? I suppose I could
give that a shot. I know the nonflavored normally doesn't appeal to me but i
could definitely be used to make the shake a bit better and I'd get more
protein and good carbs that way, wouldn't I?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm still working out a way to do this as
inexpensively as possible, as I'm on a very limited budget. Tuna and egg
whites have been my saviors thus far, but I do need to balance things out
more than I have. Thanks.

Mike

> > Does flavored low-fat yogurt have too much sugar to be included in the
> sort
> > of body fat loss that I'm seeking, and if not, when would be the best time
> > to eat it?

Reply to this Message

Perple Gyrl - 16 May 2004 14:08 GMT

"Michael Plumridge" <mplumridge@charter.net> wrote in message

> I've just started drinking lots of water. I was drinking diet pop for the
> longest time and it was rough to go throw caffiene withdrawals but i
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> could definitely be used to make the shake a bit better and I'd get more
> protein and good carbs that way, wouldn't I?

It definately wouldn't hurt to try! There is a type of nonfat plain yogurt
that is natural and comes in a glass jar. I don't remember the brand
name... but it is very good. Whole Foods and Central Market both sell it.
Only 90 calories per cup. IMO, it tastes better then most other NF plain
yogurt.

> Thanks for the suggestion. I'm still working out a way to do this as
> inexpensively as possible, as I'm on a very limited budget. Tuna and egg
> whites have been my saviors thus far, but I do need to balance things out
> more than I have. Thanks.

Good luck!

> Mike
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> time
> > > to eat it?

Reply to this Message