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Poll: Many in U.S. in denial about weight

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Neutron - 29 May 2004 17:35 GMT
Friday, May 28, 2004 · Last updated 7:57 p.m. PT

Poll: Many in U.S. in denial about weight

By WILL LESTER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- Many Americans are in denial about their weight problems,
according to an Associated Press poll, although more than half say they
have been on diets at some point.

Those who do watch what they eat are more likely to trim fat than take the
trendier approach of cutting carbohydrates.

Such issues are on people's minds with the approach of summer, when many
will try to squeeze into swimsuits without wincing in front of the mirror.

In an overweight nation, just 12 percent say they are on diets right now,
the AP-Ipsos poll found.

Most people who have been on diets say they've regained at least some of
the weight they had lost. Twenty-three percent say they've gained it all
back.

"I've been up and down for many years - it is hard," said Ann Burris, a
59-year-old teacher from Tallahassee, Fla. "I've tried, and I understand
nutrition, but it's a lack of self-discipline. I'm going to retire this
year, and I want to try to get to a healthy weight."

Who's to blame for America's weight problem?

More than three-quarters said individuals bear the responsibility for
themselves, while 9 percent pointed to family and 8 percent blamed
fast-food restaurants.

The AP poll found that six in 10 who qualify as overweight under government
standards say they are at a healthy weight. Only a quarter of those who are
obese consider themselves very overweight, according to the poll conducted
for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs.

People are unlikely to admit the severity of their weight problems for fear
of being seen in a bad light, said Dr. William Dietz, of the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Many also may be unfamiliar with
government standards.

"There have been lots of changes in food intake - fast foods, increased
portion sizes, soft drink consumption," said Dietz, director of the CDC's
division of nutrition and physical activity. Additionally, he said, people
are exercising less nowadays.

About two-thirds in the poll said they have tried to start regular programs
of physical exercise in the last year.

When asked which health risk posed the greatest danger to Americans today,
most in the AP-Ipsos poll said unhealthy eating habits.

The AP-Ipsos poll asked people their height and weight and used a
government formula to determine if they were overweight.

About half, 49 percent, qualified as overweight or obese, based on their
reported height and weight. However, respondents in a telephone poll could
be inclined to understate their weight, and men were more likely than women
to report weights that would make them officially overweight.

Only 36 percent in the AP poll described themselves as overweight, just
over half the number considered overweight by government standards.

A 1999-2000 government study of nutrition found that almost two-thirds of
Americans are either overweight or obese.

Almost one in six said being overweight is a major problem for them or
someone in their family. More than half said it was at least a minor
problem.

A majority in the poll, 56 percent, said they attempt to restrict fat in
their diets, while 33 percent said they try to restrict carbohydrates,
foods like bread and pasta. Low-carb approaches like the Atkins diet have
been around for decades but have grown increasingly popular in the last few
years.

"It's not surprising that a good percentage are sticking with the lowfat
diets they knew about when they grew up," said Eric Rimm, a nutrition
specialist at the Harvard School of Public Health.

Jennifer Bryan, a 36-year-old massage therapist in Coronado, Calif., said
exercise is the key component since she has had to focus more on her weight
in recent years.

"I'm not overweight on anybody else's standards," said the former NFL
cheerleader. "I've always had a magnificent, fantastic body. But it's all
about exercise."

In that group of people who have dieted in the past, almost four in 10 said
they gained back most of the weight they lost, and about as many said they
gained back some of the weight.

"My problem is that I have no approach to it at all," said Jim Lunger, a
44-year-old market researcher from Louisville, Ky. "I know it can be a
health problem, but what a way to go."

The AP-Ipsos poll of 1,000 adults was taken May 17-19 and has a margin of
sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

---
Steve  Bukosky - 30 May 2004 05:36 GMT
>More than three-quarters said individuals bear the responsibility for
>themselves, while 9 percent pointed to family and 8 percent blamed
>fast-food restaurants.

Does it matter? I don't think so.  I was raise by parents that went
through the depression. When in high school and college, student
discounts usually amounted to two food items for the price of one.
When I married, the in-laws always treated us like we weren't eating
enough.  Any church celebration was around food.  So, there are many
reasons why a person get overweight.

In our free society, a fault of it is that we do not look out for our
brothers and sisters.  Once I became diabetic, my doctor gave me a
pamphlet on cutting down on calories.  As my blood pressure went up,
more medication was prescribed. Yes, my weight was taken and mentioned
at each visit  but no one really told me that my weight was getting
out of control. In my eyes, I did not appear all that heavy.  Does it
matter? After all this is a free society. I am free to eat myself to
an early death, or worse.

We do not live in a vacuum.  My being overweight has been a burden on
my health insurance company, family and coworkers.  I sit here
recovering from expensive foot surgery due to my overweight condition.
Ironically, it is from doing many miles of hiking on the weekends in
an attempt to burn off calories!

Being overweight affects more than the individual so I think it is the
communities responsibility to help and support those headed in the
wrong direction. More emphasis on wellness would go a long way.  We
tax cigarettes and booze.  Maybe it is time to tax the blubber food
purveyors.
Steve - 30 May 2004 13:38 GMT
Steve Bukosky wrote:

> Being overweight affects more than the individual so I think it is the
> communities responsibility to help and support those headed in the
> wrong direction. More emphasis on wellness would go a long way.  We
> tax cigarettes and booze.  Maybe it is time to tax the blubber food
> purveyors.

I agree.

The fat and obesity epidemic impinges on the welfare of society as a whole

I disagree.

It is not the responsibility of society to turn people going in the
wrong direction around.

Aside from the super tiny minority with medical issues it was the
individual who made fattening choices and it in the end it will be the
individual who makes the decision to slim down.

If someone is an adult it was their decision making, their choices.

It behooves society to provide support for individualls who want to
change and it behooves society to encourage people to change, but it is
not socieities responsibility.

Steve
*bicker* - 30 May 2004 15:03 GMT
A Sun, 30 May 2004 08:38:17 -0400, Steve
<nospam@please.reply.to.group.thanks.com> escribió:
> It behooves society to provide support for individualls who want to
> change and it behooves society to encourage people to change, but it is
> not socieities responsibility.

Sounds good to me, but with one add-on.  It behooves society
to find a way to place the costs of unhealthy behaviors
squarely on those who exhibit those behaviors, and relieve
society of those costs.

--
bicker®
Watch Good Morning America on June 1 to meet members of
the National Weight Control Registry, who share their
experiences losing weight and keeping weight off for
life.
Steve - 30 May 2004 15:30 GMT
> A Sun, 30 May 2004 08:38:17 -0400, Steve
> <nospam@please.reply.to.group.thanks.com> escribió:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> squarely on those who exhibit those behaviors, and relieve
> society of those costs.

My add-on to your add-on....spread the cost to the organizations that
encourage those behaviours as well.

Amen.
Lady Veteran - 30 May 2004 19:58 GMT
>> A Sun, 30 May 2004 08:38:17 -0400, Steve
>> <nospam@please.reply.to.group.thanks.com> escribió:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>My add-on to your add-on....spread the cost to the organizations
>that  encourage those behaviours as well.

And which organizations are those? Who is going to define these
"unhealthy behaviors?" Not you, for sure...

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
*bicker* - 30 May 2004 15:45 GMT
A Sun, 30 May 2004 10:03:00 -0400, *bicker*
<1NVAL1D@1NVAL1D.1NVAL1D> escribió:
> bicker®
> Watch Good Morning America on June 1 to meet members of
> the National Weight Control Registry, who share their
> experiences losing weight and keeping weight off for
> life.

Ack.  Sorry folks.  Just got word from Good Morning America
that this will probably be on June 2 instead.  Surely
sometime during the week, but they're reluctant to
specifically say which day.

--
bicker®
Watch Good Morning America on June 2 to meet members of
the National Weight Control Registry, who share their
experiences losing weight and keeping weight off for
life.
Lady Veteran - 30 May 2004 19:56 GMT
>A Sun, 30 May 2004 08:38:17 -0400, Steve
><nospam@please.reply.to.group.thanks.com> escribió:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>squarely on those who exhibit those behaviors, and relieve
>society of those costs.

I think the cost should be share by those who deliberately go out of
their way to ridicule people who happen to be obese. It only
intensifies the problem. That way there would be a solution to both
problems-the people who WANT to lose weight can get assistance and
the idiots who can't keep their opinions to themselves when they hurt
others can feel the pain they cause to some.

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
Mary Jo - 30 May 2004 20:08 GMT
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>
>Lady Veteran

"People who happer to be obese" ???????????????
Just happen to be obese???
Just happen to be a drug addict????
Just happen to be in need of a bath???

These things do NOT just happen!!!!!!

Mary Jo
Donna - 30 May 2004 21:58 GMT
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>Lady Veteran
>- -----------------------------------

I am curious as to what kind of assistance one needs to lose weight.

Their hands tied behind their back?
Their jaws wired shut?
Be forced to run a treadmill for three hours a day?
Isolated in a locked room with no food supplied except the minimum
calories required to follow a weight loss diet?

The millions who have reduced to a reasonable weight and then
maintained that weight long term is witness that it can be and is
accomplished regularly.    Think of the movie actors and actresses who
gain and lose weight as required by a movie role.  (Not that I
recommend purposely adding weight when someone is not already
overweight.)   But it substantiates that it is, after all, just a case
of calories in versus calories out.

Donna
polar bear - 30 May 2004 23:04 GMT
> I am curious as to what kind of assistance one needs to lose weight.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> overweight.)   But it substantiates that it is, after all, just a case
> of calories in versus calories out.

Exactly, but some of the fat f.cks around here just refuse to
acknowledge this.

Signature

polar bear

Lady Veteran - 30 May 2004 23:31 GMT
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[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>Donna

The point is that the weight loss decision belongs to the person
wanting to lose weight and not to the idiots who force it upon
others. No, it is not that simple. Each body is individual and its
needs are different and that is where assistance can be helpful.

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
Donna - 31 May 2004 00:01 GMT
>-
>>>I think the cost should be share by those who deliberately go out
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>LV

Probably the greatest assistance that could be given the obese is to
intensify ridicule of obesity.  This can be done via movies,
television, comic strips, advertisements, etc, etc.

Such ridicule would be, by far, the greatest motivation for the obese
to be realistic, end the denial, and take off the excess fat.   At
first some may complain but after they lose the wight they will be
most appreciative that they received this encouragement to once again
become a normal human.  Absolutely, there in not enough now enough
ridicule or we would not see so much obesity.   It must be made more
unpopular and unpleaseant to be obese.

Donna
Lady Veteran - 31 May 2004 00:19 GMT
>>-
>>>>I think the cost should be share by those who deliberately go out
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>intensify ridicule of obesity.  This can be done via movies,
>television, comic strips, advertisements, etc, etc.

Bullshit. Ridicule is not acceptable in any form. Punishment therapy
only works in the short term and causes more damage than it stops. I
see no excuse for idiots to take advantage of other and will actively
stop all I see.

>Such ridicule would be, by far, the greatest motivation for the
>obese to be realistic, end the denial, and take off the excess fat.

I can see you have never been ridiculed. Well you are in for it now.
That is bran stem thinking and it will get you nowhere.

>  At first some may complain but after they lose the wight they will
> be
>most appreciative that they received this encouragement to once
>again become a normal human.

Good god!!! What planet are you from really??

> Absolutely, there in not enough now enough
>ridicule or we would not see so much obesity.

There is too much ridicule. One idiot is too many.

>  It must be made more
>unpopular and unpleaseant to be obese.

And you should be shot. How about that?

>Donna

I should know better to attempt a conversation with a blond.

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
Me - 31 May 2004 01:48 GMT
>>Probably the greatest assistance that could be given the obese is to
>>intensify ridicule of obesity.  This can be done via movies,
>>television, comic strips, advertisements, etc, etc.
>>
> Bullshit. Ridicule is not acceptable in any form.

Don't like it? Lose some weight. See where he's coming from?
Cause and effect. Lose weight, no ridicule. Don't lose weight,
get more ridicule. Simple and effective.

> only works in the short term and causes more damage than it stops. I
> see no excuse for idiots to take advantage of other and will actively
> stop all I see.

You can't stop sh.t, you're just a worthless fat f.ck who
no-one gives a sh.t about. If you died tomorrow no-one
would care.

> I can see you have never been ridiculed. Well you are in for it now.
> That is bran stem thinking and it will get you nowhere.

Lose some weight you f.cking walrus.

>>  At first some may complain but after they lose the wight they will
>> be
>>most appreciative that they received this encouragement to once
>>again become a normal human.
>
> Good god!!! What planet are you from really??

A planet where a walrus-like appearance is not acceptable
in humans. Put the f.cking cake down.

>>  It must be made more
>>unpopular and unpleaseant to be obese.
>
> And you should be shot. How about that?

Wouldn't you rather eat her?

>>Donna
>
> I should know better to attempt a conversation with a blond.

Ah, the last bastion of the jealous loser. She's more attractive
than you and slimmer than you, so you grasp any last straw you
can you attack her. Conversely, maybe she should know better to
attempt a conversation with a land-whale.
Frank Pierson - 31 May 2004 03:47 GMT
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>see no excuse for idiots to take advantage of other and will actively
>stop all I see.

We, as a nation, are fortunate that we do not large numbers with LV's
mind set as members of the various states' parole boards.   They would
vote for releasing all the criminal felons because  "Punishment
therapy only works in the short term'"   The question begging for an
answer from her---  Should murder be punishable with a 6 month prison
sentence?

Doesn't this woman ever engage her brain before she starts typing.
Where in the hell does she get these kooky opinions?

Frank
Jane - 31 May 2004 18:56 GMT
Can the same be said for smokers?

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> >>>>
> >>>>LV
DietNow - 31 May 2004 03:29 GMT
>>-
>>>>I think the cost should be share by those who deliberately go out
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
>Donna

I absolutely agree with Donna's post.  There are far too many obese people
who are comfortable with their unhealthy and offensive lifestyle.

HTH

S*nort
aurora - 31 May 2004 04:17 GMT
You assume that the obese are obese as a choice. Therefore, fixing obesity
is merely as simple as giving the obese reasons to make a different choice
(to be slim).

This assumption is false. The majority of people who are obese do not want
to be obese. They know how bad it is to be obese but they don't know what to
do about it. As someone who was obese, I can't begin to tell you how
profoundly damaging being obese was to my spirit. I am naturally a very
sensitive, emotional, introspective person. I don't feel I'll ever be an
emotionally normal person due to the intense abuse I received for my
obesity. Every night I would wish at night, fantasize really about how
wondrous it would be to wake up normal weight. I had resorted to wishing for
normalcy, since I did not see what else could be done to obtain it. I envied
thin people who went on diets out of vanity. If only they knew what it was
like to be me they would appreciate their thinness. Mostly I just felt very,
very hopeless.

People say "just eat less"... well that's easier said than done. If you are
abnormally hungry all the time, if you have a tendency to gain weight on
lower calorie allowances than others, etc it is very hard to eat less and
lose weight. It certainly can't be maintained indefinitely. This is why
diets fail. Most diets are very poorly structured out of ignorance and are
destined for failure. What allowed me to lose weight wasn't MORE abuse. What
allowed me to lose weight was education. I was privileged enough to be
exposed to some rudimentary education about the endocrine system and
environment's affect on it. With this education, and seeing its positive
impact on my health and weight, I voraciously devoured (how ironic) every
bit of knowledge I could find on the subject. I learned all calories are not
equal. I learned some foods and lifestyles exacerbate obesity & metabolical
disorders (refined carbohydrate, certain substances, unhealthy
lifestyle/irregular sleep/stress/etc), while others are conducive to
maintaining healthy body weight & metabolical wellness. With the education I
unearthed I was able to change my diet and lifestyle in a way that promotes
metabolic normalcy.

What will help put a dent in the obesity epidemic is not more abuse, but
more RESEARCH on its many causes. Once we as a society know more about the
numerous causes of obesity, we can better advise and educate the public in
its treatment. I do believe not all obesity cases are caused by the same
factors. Some people have emotional problems and use food to self medicate,
others have physical diseases of metabolism caused by improper diet (such as
myself). Telling someone who uses food to cope with emotions to "just eat
less" won't work... unless they address the cause of disease
(improper/immature coping strategies) they will not become thin. They will
yo-yo diet. Likewise, telling someone who is metabolically damaged from
insulin resistence to also "eat less" won't work either. Unless you
specifically address/control the cause of obesity the disease (the insulin
resistence), any weight loss will be temporary as eventually your appetite
WILL get the best of you and you will be back to gorging yourself on food.

Normal people don't maintain normal weight by starvation and deprivation.
Obese people shouldn't be expected to either. They need education to deal
with the the causes of excessive caloric consumption, not another
failure-bound starvation diet. Once the obese can better educate themselves
about their disease, only then are they in a position to do something
sustainable about it.

> >-
> >>>I think the cost should be share by those who deliberately go out
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Donna
Me - 31 May 2004 15:09 GMT
> You assume that the obese are obese as a choice. Therefore, fixing obesity
> is merely as simple as giving the obese reasons to make a different choice
> (to be slim).
>
> This assumption is false. The majority of people who are obese do not want
> to be obese.

Yes they do. If they really didn't want to be obese they
would do something about it. You can complain about it not
being their fault, but the truth is, they value maintaining
their easy, path-of-least-resistance lifestyle over the
hard work involved in losing weight.

> obesity. Every night I would wish at night, fantasize really about how
> wondrous it would be to wake up normal weight.

Maybe you could of instead fantasised about going to the
gym, or even better, actually doing it for real.

> People say "just eat less"... well that's easier said than done. If you are
> abnormally hungry all the time, if you have a tendency to gain weight on
> lower calorie allowances than others, etc it is very hard to eat less and
> lose weight.

I don't see why someone would be unable to do something
merely because it is hard. What is it with fat people
and wanting everything to be easy? I suppose that's what
made them fat in the first place, choosing the easy options
that provided instant pleasure, rather than choosing the
harder options which provided long-term pleasure.

> It certainly can't be maintained indefinitely.

Yes, it can, unless you are so metally-deficient, so weak-
willed, so pathetic, that you can't even control your own
cravings.

> This is why diets fail.

The diets don't fail. The people on the diets fail. When will
people stop blaming other things for their own failures?

> Most diets are very poorly structured out of ignorance and are
> destined for failure.

Most diets are destined for success, of course a condition is
that the people on the diet actually follow it, rather than
giving up to their lack of will-power and discipline.

> What will help put a dent in the obesity epidemic is not more abuse, but
> more RESEARCH on its many causes.

There's plenty of research on it already there. Rare medical
conditions aside, there isn't one obese person who couldn't
return to a normal, healthy weight using the knowledge which
is already out there. Many causes? There is one cause: consuming
an energy excess.

> Once we as a society know more about the
> numerous causes of obesity,
   
Numerous causes? Stop making excuses, there's one single
cause and you know what is it. Stop the denial, all it
does it teaches fat people to think that their condition
is out of their control and that they can't do anything
about it until some mystery cure is found. How about
instead teaching them to be responsible for their own
weight for once?

> we can better advise and educate the public in
> its treatment.

I've got a treatment right here: consume 500 calories less
than maintenance every day until normal weight is resumed.
Complement it will a full-body weight-lifting workout twice
a week and regular cardio. Problem solved. Of course, my
research fee for coming up with this cure is 500,000 pounds.

> myself). Telling someone who uses food to cope with emotions to "just eat
> less" won't work...

If it doesn't work, and they are unable to control their own
actions, then that's just tough sh.t isn't it? Why bother
trying to help someone who can't control a single aspect of
their own lives? Are we talking about human beings or zombies
who are slaves to their own hunger?

> Normal people don't maintain normal weight by starvation and deprivation.
> Obese people shouldn't be expected to either.

500 calories below maintenance is not starvation or deprivation,
no matter how you'd like to spin it. Stop making excuses for
people's lack of drive.

> failure-bound starvation diet. Once the obese can better educate themselves
> about their disease, only then are they in a position to do something
> sustainable about it.

Obesity is not a disease, no more than a broken nose is a disease. Stop
using incorrect terminology, it's dishonest.
Lady Veteran - 30 May 2004 19:53 GMT
>>More than three-quarters said individuals bear the responsibility
>>for themselves, while 9 percent pointed to family and 8 percent
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>tax cigarettes and booze.  Maybe it is time to tax the blubber food
>purveyors.

No. taxing the hell out of something is not the answer. When people
learn that positive reinforcement works much better then ridicule
people will lose weight. Regardless, eating, just like most any other
things is an individual choice and one must live with the result
unless one does something about it. Only idiocy will try to force the
issue and try ridicule as a solution.

I am assuming you are talking about your own situation and blubber
and no one else's, right?

Why do you think that the other groups listed here are interested in what the
original poster had to say? You like being troll bait?

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
harpoo - 10 Jun 2004 20:36 GMT
>>No. taxing the hell out of something is not the answer. When people
>>learn that positive reinforcement works much better then ridicule
>>people will lose weight.

I agree, it would be stupid to tax these things anyway, many people
choose to consume them, and are completely fine with them.  The
government shouldn't be telling us what to eat.  Everyone is
different.
polar bear - 30 May 2004 23:00 GMT
Steve Bukosky wrote:
> Being overweight affects more than the individual so I think it is the
> communities responsibility to help and support those headed in the
> wrong direction. More emphasis on wellness would go a long way.  We
> tax cigarettes and booze.  Maybe it is time to tax the blubber food
> purveyors.

You mean it's time to tax the fat who raise welfare costs ? No one is
forcing you to eat junk food.

Signature

polar bear

aurora - 31 May 2004 03:57 GMT
Did your doctor advise the strenuous exercise activity? How irresponsible,
considering you are diabetic!

Have you heard of Dr. Bernstein's eating strategy? I've heard of many
diabetics who get very good control with it. If you are interested I'll give
you more info.

> >More than three-quarters said individuals bear the responsibility for
> >themselves, while 9 percent pointed to family and 8 percent blamed
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> tax cigarettes and booze.  Maybe it is time to tax the blubber food
> purveyors.
alexbrown77 - 10 Jun 2004 16:28 GMT
But why should people who are healthy be punished for eating a candy
bar every now and then? It is not fair to them...I do not think that
we should have a fat tax but rather let people know that it is their
responsibilty for what they put in their mouths. While I think it is
great that you have found people to support you in your weight loss, I
do not think that it is their responsiblity...they did not force you
to eat what you ate nor were they Big Brothering you to stop you...you
choose it for yourself.
*bicker* - 11 Jun 2004 12:09 GMT
A 10 Jun 2004 08:28:13 -0700, alexandrabrown77@yahoo.com
(alexbrown77) escribió:
> But why should people who are healthy be punished for eating a candy
> bar every now and then?

If it is "every now and then" it isn't much of a punishment,
eh?  Does one consider the park fee at Walden Pond a
"punishment"?  While it does keep local folks from
monopolizing the facility, it doesn't really amount to much
of a deterrent to folks just visiting it once to see the
historic site.

--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/DrJohnson/Diet_registry_040602.html
Lady Veteran - 11 Jun 2004 16:01 GMT
>A 10 Jun 2004 08:28:13 -0700, alexandrabrown77@yahoo.com
>(alexbrown77) escribió:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>of a deterrent to folks just visiting it once to see the
>historic site.

Taxes do not go far in the way of solving. It makes a lot of folks
resentful. The idiots don't mind big brother looking into the affairs
of fat people but they will take every dodge known to God and man to
keep from meeting their own responsibilities as citizen to pay their
own taxes.

To HEL with them and they bastard bigotry.

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
Chris - 11 Jun 2004 16:28 GMT
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1

>To HEL with them and they bastard bigotry.
>
>LV
>
>Lady Veteran
>- -----------------------------------

WTF,  Please state the above in standard English.

Chris.
Chris Braun - 11 Jun 2004 23:49 GMT
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Chris.

For the record, this is some other Chris, not me :-).

the usual Chris
262/149/ (145-150)
*bicker* - 11 Jun 2004 22:26 GMT
A Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:39 GMT, Lady Veteran
<armyvet@bigfoot.com> escribió:
> Taxes do not go far in the way of solving.

The reality is that reasonable folks disagree about the
relative merits of taxation.  A blanket statement, as such,
only reveals a personal bias, but doesn't indicate anything
factual.

> It makes a lot of folks resentful.

No doubt.  What proof is there that resentment invariably
leads to people being less healthy?  I don't see what point
you're trying to make.

> The idiots don't mind big brother looking into the affairs
> of fat people but they will take every dodge known to God and man to
> keep from meeting their own responsibilities as citizen to pay their
> own taxes.

I think you're making that up, because you can't come up
with any legitimate arguments for your position.

--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/DrJohnson/Diet_registry_040602.html
Lady Veteran - 12 Jun 2004 00:05 GMT
>A Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:39 GMT, Lady Veteran
><armyvet@bigfoot.com> escribió:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>I think you're making that up, because you can't come up
>with any legitimate arguments for your position.

Oh yeah? OK so I can't prove that idiots don't pay taxes in
general but I can prove that their mentality is exactly what I said.
Idiots seem to want to make fat people some sort of target and that is
unacceptable.

LV

Lady Veteran
- -----------------------------------
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..."
- -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil
- ------------------------------------------------
People who hide behind anonymous remailers and
ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no
motive but malice.
- ---------------------------------------------
"To Do Is To Be" Socrates
"To Be Is To Do" Plato
"Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra
- -------------------------------
*bicker* - 12 Jun 2004 11:04 GMT
A Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:05:04 GMT, Lady Veteran
<armyvet@bigfoot.com> escribió:
> >I think you're making that up, because you can't come up
> >with any legitimate arguments for your position.
> Oh yeah? OK so I can't prove that idiots don't pay taxes in
> general but I can prove that their mentality is exactly what I said.

We're waiting for your promised proof.

> Idiots seem to want to make fat people some sort of target and that is
> unacceptable.

Try being a little less self-absorbed, and you'll perhaps
understand the difference between your personal angst and
"proof."

--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/DrJohnson/Diet_registry_040602.html
spamfree@nospam.com - 14 Jun 2004 19:43 GMT
>But why should people who are healthy be punished for eating a candy
>bar every now and then? It is not fair to them...I do not think that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>to eat what you ate nor were they Big Brothering you to stop you...you
>choose it for yourself.

Hey, if these people want to be fat and ugly it's their own business.
Nonymous - 14 Jun 2004 21:19 GMT
> >But why should people who are healthy be punished for eating a candy
> >bar every now and then? It is not fair to them...I do not think that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Hey, if these people want to be fat and ugly it's their own business.

It's arguably *your* business, too, since a such a large percentage of
insurance and Medicare payouts are towards obesity-related health ailments,
and the cost of the payouts is ultimately passed on to you.
exzuberance - 16 Jun 2004 14:25 GMT
> > >But why should people who are healthy be punished for eating a candy
> > >bar every now and then? It is not fair to them...I do not think that
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> insurance and Medicare payouts are towards obesity-related health ailments,
> and the cost of the payouts is ultimately passed on to you.

could I please have an exact percentage of "large" that is considered
obesity-related health ailments?..cause I thought cancer, aids, old
related ailments, sports injuries, child injuries, DWI injuries and
mental disorders such as bi-polar ADHD ect.. topped the list before
obesity-related health ailments. I believe we are paying more for
government workers pension plan then are any obesity-related health
ailment.

Thanks please...
Exzuberance
NR - 17 Jun 2004 04:37 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>> It's arguably *your* business, too, since a such a large percentage of
>> insurance and Medicare payouts are towards obesity-related health ailments,
>> and the cost of the payouts is ultimately passed on to you.
>
>could I please have an exact percentage of "large" that is considered
>obesity-related health ailments?

Does this put things in enough perspective for you?

Obes Res 2001 Mar;9(3):210-8
 
Body mass index and future healthcare costs: a retrospective cohort study.

Thompson D, Brown JB, Nichols GA, Elmer PJ, Oster G.

Policy Analysis Inc. (PAI), Brookline, Massachusetts 02445, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To assess the relationship between body mass index (BMI) and
future healthcare costs. RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES: We undertook a
retrospective cohort study of the relationship between obesity and future
healthcare costs at Kaiser Permanente Northwest Division, a large health
maintenance organization in Portland, Oregon. Study subjects (n = 1286)
consisted of persons who responded to a 1990 health survey that was mailed
to a random sample of adult Kaiser Permanente Northwest Division members
who were 35 to 64 years of age; had a BMI > or = 20 kg/m(2) (based on
self-reported height and weight); did not smoke cigarettes; and did not
have a history of coronary heart disease, stroke, human immunodeficiency
virus, or cancer. Subjects were stratified according to their BMI in 1990
(20 to 24.9, 25 to 29.9, and > or = 30 kg/m(2); n = 545, 474, and 367,
respectively). We then tallied their costs (in 1998 US dollars) for all
inpatient care, outpatient services, and prescription drugs over a 9-year
period (1990 through 1998). RESULTS: For persons with BMIs of 20 to 24.9
kg/m(2), mean (+/-SE) annual costs of prescription drugs, outpatient
services, inpatient care, and all medical care averaged $261 (+/-18), $848
(+/-59), $532 (+/-85), and $1631 (+/-120), respectively, over the study
period. Cost ratios (95% confidence intervals) for persons with BMIs of 25
to 29.9 kg/m(2) and > or = 30 kg/m(2), respectively, were 1.37 (1.12 to
1.66) and 2.05 (1.62 to 2.55) for prescription drugs, 0.96 (0.83 to 1.13)
and 1.14 (0.97 to 1.37) for outpatient services, 1.20 (0.81 to 1.86) and
1.38 (0.91 to 2.14) for inpatient care, and 1.10 (0.91 to 1.35) and 1.36
(1.11 to 1.68) for all medical care. DISCUSSION: Future healthcare costs
are higher for persons who are overweight, especially those with BMIs > or
= 30 kg/m(2).
***

NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID: <1992May19.214752.17027@csus.edu>

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID: <1992Jun6.152649.3498@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: <1992Oct28.031340.28224@csus.edu>

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: <3814f6ca$0$208@nntp1.ba.best.com>

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
after f.cking a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: <3a569378.6665567@207.217.77.23>

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: <3e005dd4.31042@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID: <bjqq7801qd8@drn.newsguy.com>

Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me now.
 
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