Isn't it fascinating how, in his desire to make every thread about him, he
will never stop, even when it makes him look like a complete ninny? : )

Martha

Stupid is as stupid does.  You've posted things in the past that defend
anorexia as a way of life for some people, simply demonstrating your lack of
knowlege on the issue.  I'm not the only one who's noticed it or called you
on it.  You troll and then call me stupid?  So now why do you get to call
names and yet *I'm* not?  Hey, at least I have balls to say directly that
you, ignoramus, are almost intellectually honest in using that name (a
remark from mfw a long time ago), however I still think the m should be an n
because you are definitely an a.shole too.

Oops, I guess I'm being uncivil.

Again, lay off the pipe.

You haven't done much. The gloves are off as are you from my killfile.

(which involves looking at fatality rates

Interesting??? Interesting??? Have you suffered from anorexia? Ever know
anyone who did? Ever have anyone you know die from it? Or, are you wishing
you had it? Sounds like the latter to me. You need some real life friends.
But anyway, here's some real facts for you, and yes, I quote them in here,
rather than just post links (lazy, lazy, lazy).

Hey, if she lives in old age, she might not get breast cancer, according to
the ignorant one. But here are some really, really bad things that may
happen:

From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/thin/faq.html

What Are the Long-Term Medical and Emotional Consequences of these
Disorders?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The longer these illnesses persist, the greater the impairment to the
individual's ability to work, love, and play. The course of these illnesses
is very similar to other psychiatric difficulties such as drug and alcohol
abuse, depression, anxiety, phobia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder. The
illnesses dramatically interfere with being able to consistently work or go
to school. They ruin relationships and make it very difficult to experience
pleasure in life.

In addition to being emotionally devastating, the illnesses can create
serious medical problems. Adolescence is a time of rapid growth and
development. The average weight gain for girls between the ages of 11 and 14
is 40 pounds. Approximately 90 percent of adult bone mass will be
established during adolescence. Osteoporosis ("porous bones" that break
easily) can begin early in both girls and boys who are dieting or suffering
from Anorexia nervosa. An extended period of semi-starvation stunts growth,
can delay the onset of menstruation, and can damage vital organs such as the
heart and brain. Listed below are some of the most common medical problems.

Medical Consequences of Anorexia Nervosa:
- Starvation deprives the body of protein and prevents the normal metabolism
of fat. In an effort to protect itself, the body slows down.

- The heart muscle changes and its beat becomes irregular. The ultimate
result can be heart failure that results in death.

- Menstruation often stops, even before extensive weight loss. This is
called amenorrhea.

- Dehydration, kidney stones and kidney failure may result.

- A fine body hair, called lanugo, develops on the arms and can even cover
the face.

- Muscles atrophy or waste away, resulting in weakness and lost muscle
function.

- Delayed gastric emptying caused by a lack of energy and slowed body
function results in bowel irritation and constipation.

- Loss of bone calcium leads to osteoporosis.

But hey, no breast cancer!!

f.cking moron.

But wait...there's more!

From: http://www.geocities.com/iamafatguy/pro.html

Complications of Anorexia Nervosa

Long Term Outlook. At this time no treatment program for anorexia nervosa is
completely effective. In a recent study, although most women with anorexia
nervosa recovered after treatment, many remained very thin and displayed
traits characteristic of the disorder, including perfectionism and a drive
for thinness, that could keep them at risk for recurrence of the eating
disorder. Even in those who recover, one study indicated that recovery took
between four and nearly seven years. Those at highest risk for poor outcome
were people who had accompanying severe psychological disorders.

Risk of Death. Many studies of anorexic patients have reported death rates
ranging from 4% to 20%. The risk for early death is twice as high in bulimic
anorexics as it is in the anorexic-restrictor types. Patients who are at the
lowest weights when they are first treated are in the greatest danger.
Suicide has been estimated in some studies to comprise as many as half the
deaths in anorexia; although, in one study, suicide rates were lower in
women with anorexia (1.4%) than in those with depression (4.1%). The study,
however, only looked at death records of all women, which listed
accompanying anorexia but which might have missed many unrecorded cases of
anorexia. Other risk factors for early death include being sick for more
than six years, previous obesity, personality disorders, and dysfunctional
marriages. Males with anorexia are at particular risk for life-threatening
medical problems, probably because they are diagnosed later than are
females.

Heart Disease. Heart disease is the most common medical cause of death in
people with severe anorexia. The heart can develop dangerous rhythms,
including slow rhythms known as bradycardia. Blood flow is reduced and blood
pressure may drop. In addition, the heart muscles starve, losing size.
Cholesterol levels tend to rise. Heart problems are a particular risk when
anorexia is compounded by bulimia and the use of ipecac, the drug that
causes vomiting.

Electrolyte Imbalances. Minerals such as potassium, calcium, magnesium, and
phosphate are normally dissolved in the body's fluid. Calcium and potassium
are particularly critical for maintaining the electric currents that cause
the heart to beat regularly. The dehydration and starvation of anorexia can
reduce fluid levels and mineral content, a condition known as electrolyte
imbalance, which can be very serious and even life-threatening unless fluids
and minerals are replaced.

Reproductive and Hormonal Abnormalities. Anorexia causes low levels of
reproductive hormones, changes in thyroid hormones, and increased levels of
the stress hormones. Long-term irregular or absent menstruation (amenorrhea)
is common, which eventually may cause sterility and bone loss. Low weight
alone may not be sufficient to cause amenorrhea; extreme fasting and purging
behaviors may play an even stronger role in hormonal disturbance. Children
and adolescents with anorexia may also experience retarded growth due to
reduced levels of growth hormone. Resumption of menstruation, indicating
restored estrogen levels, and weight increase improves the outlook, but in
severe anorexia, even after treatment, normal menstruation never returns in
25% of such patients. Women who become pregnant before regaining normal
weight face a poor reproductive future, with low birth weights, frequent
miscarriages, and a high rate of children with birth defects. Loss of bone
minerals (osteopenia) and osteoporosis caused by low estrogen levels and
increased steroid hormones result in bones becoming porous and subject to
fracture. Up to two-thirds of children and adolescent girls with anorexia
fail to develop strong bones during this critical growing period; one study
reported that after eleven years, low bone density persisted in 85% of women
who had been anorexic as adolescents but had regained normal weight and
menstruation. Only restoring regular menstruation as soon as possible can
protect against permanent bone loss; weight gain is not enough. The longer
the eating disorder persists the more likely the bone loss will be
permanent. Patients who are rehabilitated at a young age (15 years or
younger) are more likely to achieve normal bone density.

Neurological Problems. People with severe anorexia may suffer nerve damage
and experience seizures, disordered thinking, loss of feeling, or other
nerve problems in the hands or feet. Brains scans indicate that parts of the
brain undergo structural changes and abnormal activity during anorexic
states; some of these changes return to normal after weight gain, but there
is evidence that some damage may be permanent.

Blood Problems. Anemia is a common result of anorexia and starvation. A
particularly serious blood problem is pernicious anemia, which can be caused
by severely low levels of vitamin B12. If anorexia becomes extreme, the bone
marrow dramatically reduces its production of blood cells, a
life-threatening condition called pancytopenia.

Gastrointestinal Problems. Bloating and constipation are both very common
problems in people with anorexia.

Complications in Diabetic Adolescents

Eating disorders are very serious in young people with type 1 diabetes.
Hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar, is a danger in anyone with anorexia, but
it is a particularly dangerous risk in those with diabetes. A recent study
found that 85% of young women with diabetes and eating disorders had
retinopathy -- damage in the retina in the eye, which can lead to blindness.
It also reported that eating disorders persisted in such young people,
increasing the risk for other acute and chronic diabetic complications.

You Don't have to live this way.

But wait, there's more!

This is from:
http://www.biopsychology.com/index.php?descType=always&id=anorexia&type=sear
ch&x=17&y=17
EATING DISORDER BEHAVIORS LINKED TO SUICIDE RISKS
By Becky Ham, Science Writer A study of Swiss women with eating disorders
suggests that those who binge and purge are more likely to have attempted
suicide in the past, regardless of whether they have been diagnosed with
anorexia nervosa, bulimia or another eating disorder. Women with anorexia,
however, are more likely to have suicidal thoughts than those with bulimia
or other disorders, say Gabriella Milos, M.D., and colleagues at the
University Hospital in Zurich, Switzerland. Their study appears in the
journal General Hospital Psychiatry. The researchers also found that most of
the women in the study had other psychiatric disorders besides an eating
disorder, including depression, drug or alcohol abuse or fearfulness or
anxiety. Almost 84 percent of the patients had at least one other
psychiatric problem. Milos and colleagues say the link between purging and
suicidal attempts might be due to a lack of impulse control, which would
affect both behaviors.
See also: Chapter 13: Homeostasis: Active Regulation of Internal States
Keyword: Anorexia & Bulimia
Posted: 05.08.2004

But wait! There's more....
From the same website as listed above:
A Secret Society of the Starving
By MIM UDOVITCH Claire is 18. She is a pretty teenager, with long
strawberry-blond hair, and she is almost abnormally self-possessed for a
girl from a small town who has suddenly been descended upon by a big-city
reporter who is there to talk to her, in secret, about her secret life. She
is sitting on the track that runs around the field of her high school's
football stadium, wearing running shorts and a T-shirt and shivering a
little because even though we are in Florida -- in the kind of town where,
according to Claire, during ''season'' when you see yet another car with New
York plates, you just feel like running it down -- there's an evening chill.
Claire's is also the kind of town where how the local high school does in
sports matters. Claire herself plays two sports. Practice and team
fund-raisers are a regular part of her life, along with the typical
small-town-Florida teenage occupations -- going to ''some hick party,''
hanging out with friends in the parking lot of the Taco Bell, bowling, going
to the beach. Another regular part of her life, also a common teenage
occupation, is anorexia -- refusal to eat enough to maintain a minimally
healthy weight. So she is possibly shivering because she hasn't consumed
enough calories for her body to keep itself warm. Claire first got into
eating disorders when she was 14 or 15 and a bulimic friend introduced her
to them. But she was already kind of on the lookout for something: ''I was
gonna do it on my own, basically. Just because, like, exercise can only take
you so far, you know? And I don't know, I just started to wonder if there
was another way. Because they made it seem like, 'You do drugs, you die; be
anorexic and you're gonna die in a year.' I knew that they kind of
overplayed it and tried to frighten you away. So I always thought it can't
be that bad for you.'' Copyright The New York Times Company
See also: Chapter 13: Homeostasis: Active Regulation of Internal States
Keyword: Anorexia & Bulimia
Posted: 09.09.2002

Women's Health: Eating Disorders (Anorexia & Bulimia)

? American Institute of Preventive Medicine  (Excerpted from The Art and
Heart of Drum Circles)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
An eating disorder may be defined, in a sense, as self-abuse. It can be just
as harmful to your health as substance abuse involving alcohol or drugs. Two
of these disorders, anorexia and bulimia, result from the fear of overeating
and gaining weight.
They share other common traits, as well, that reflect the mental/physical
health of the sufferer:

Depression.
Low self-esteem, poor body image.
Self-destructive outlook, self-punishment for some imaginary wrong.
Disturbed family relationships.
Abnormal pre-occupation with food and feeling out of control.
Increased rate of illness due to low weight, frequent weight gain/loss
and/or poor nutrition.

But wait!! There's more: http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.asp?Id=1443
In addition, anorexia and bulimia have factors specific to each:

Anorexia Nervosa sufferers tend to:
Be female, pre-teen or teenage.
Grow up in over-achieving families who establish unusually high expectations
for their children.
Place exaggerated emphasis on body image and perfection.
Have parents who are very busy and involved in their own lives. The anorexic
may feel the need to be perfect to gain their parents' attention.
Have marked physical effects - loss of head hair, stoppage of
ovulation/menstruation, slowed heart rate, low blood pressure, cold
intolerance.
Have depression more extreme than in bulimia patients.
Develop osteoporosis later in life due to lack of calcium and decreased
production of estrogen if menstruation stops. Excessive exercise can
contribute to this as well.
Have severe damage to heart and vital organs if weight drops sufficiently.
Approximately 1% of American females have anorexia.

But wait..there's more!!!

A Body to Die For   From:
http://www.discoveryhealth.co.uk/teens/t_story.asp?storyid=112767&oldstoryid
=47547&feature=

For most people food is a pleasurable part of every day life, but for some
people it is little more than a living nightmare.

One in a hundred teenage girls suffers from anorexia and, of those, 60% will
fully recover, 20% will recover partially and 20% will die.

Anorexics are obsessed with being thin. They starve themselves and are
terrified of gaining weight. They believe they are fat even when they are
wasting away. Anorexia isn't just a problem with food or weight. It's an
attempt to use food and weight to deal with emotional problems.

Anorexia takes many shapes and forms - it is possible to be overweight and
anorexic. Anorexia is a fatal illness if untreated, and there have been many
cases of deaths of anorexics who were of normal weight and some even
overweight.

If you, or someone you, know suffers from anorexia then it is VERY important
to seek help, as anorexia can cause severe long term damage: osteoporosis,
severe dehydration leading to kidney damage and low blood pressure as well
as death. The sooner treatment is started the higher the chance of making a
full recovery.

Warning signs of anorexia

Deliberate self-starvation with weight loss

Fear of gaining weight

Refusal to eat

Constant exercising

Sensitivity to cold temperatures

Absent or irregular periods (in women)

Loss of scalp hair

A self-perception of being fat when the person is really starving.

Another common eating disorder is bulimia, affecting approximately 1 in 50
teenage girls and 1 in 100 women.

Bulimia is similar to anorexia, with the sufferer facing the same revulsion
towards food. However, in bulimia there is a binge-and-purge cycle and,
unlike anorexics, they are more likely to be of a normal weight. A binge can
be a piece of fruit or a whole box of biscuits, after eating the bulimic
feels guilty because they've eaten and so gets rid of it.

There are four ways that bulimics get rid of food: exercise, self-induced
vomiting, taking diuretics or laxatives, or 'balancing out' binges with
periods of starvation.

Bulimia leads to digestive problems, electrolyte imbalance, inflammation of
the oesophagus, stained and decayed teeth from the stomach acid,
constipation and possibly death (more than 20% die from complications
related to their bulimia).

As with anorexia if you feel that you or someone you know has a problem then
it is VERY important to seek help as the sooner treatment is started the
better the chance of making a full recovery.

 But wait, there's more!!!

From: http://student.fortlewis.edu/MMCROWLEY/finalwords.htm

         One of three things can happen to someone who is severely
anorexic.  First off, everyday the voice in the anorexics head will become
louder and louder telling her to eat.  Sometimes the anorexic will break
down and begin to binge eat, eating enormous amounts of food at one time,
sometimes even as much as 20,000 calories at one sitting.  The victim will
always eat alone and secretly sneak food.  In this case the anorexic has now
developed signs of a bulimic.  Most researchers will say that almost
everyone that becomes anorexic is also bulimic, although it doesn't happen
right away, it happens over time.  When there is so much pressure to eat
from friends and family and without the nutrients in the brain, the level of
serotonin decreases causing sever depression.  After the victim has eaten so
much food they begin to feel very anxious and guilty.  Quickly, they will
find somewhere to go and get rid of it all (or barely any) of the food in
their stomach, that is why bulimia is referred to as the binge-purge cycle.
Although bulimia has not been uncommon, it wasn't until 1980 that bulimia
was diagnosed as its own eating disorder.  Some other methods bulimics use
to control their weight are laxatives and compulsive exercising.  In some
cases binge eating does not occur because of ones hunger, but rather it can
result from stress, low self-esteem, and depression (www.mamashealth.com).
Anorexics don't reverse their behaviors and take over the binge-purge
methods as often as bulimics, for example, a bulimic may go eat a whole
pizza and a gallon of ice cream, while an anorexic chooses carefully what
she eats, but still feels as if she needs to get rid of the food before
putting on weight, so she purges.

         Anorexia has the highest mortality rate of any other psychiatric
diagnosis.  Between 5-18% of anorexics die from the damaging affects on
their body.  Just like cars people need to fuel their body to run, or even
turn on for that matter. As the body starts to shut down the heart rate
decreases immensely, it sometimes gets to the point when the person can't
even hold food down because to the body, food can be so foreign.  Obviously
no one wants to see this happen, so how is someone supposed to make sure a
loved one doesn't get to that level?

         Many anorexics are in denial of their disease.  One reason is
because a part of them seriously thinks they are normal, and the other part
doesn't want to gain weight.  They often feel when their secret has been
discovered they feel trapped.  At this point the anorexic is clearly not
ready for treatment, and the treatment will not be beneficial until they
are.  That is when it becomes a struggle, not only with the family and the
anorexic, but more so with the doctor and the anorexic.  The victim needs to
go into treatment before it comes this far, (this is generally the time when
they'll start eating to prove to the people around them they don't have a
problem and develop bulimia).  There are a variety of different treatment
choices.  If the anorexic is progressing in the treatment they are in, then
obviously that is the right treatment for them, if they are showing no signs
whatsoever of progress then there needs to be a change in treatments.  There
are even treatment centers for parents, so they can get involved and create
a healthy environment for their daughter.

         Anorexia is not uncommon and can result from many life altering
changes, but it is important, especially for parents, to be involved with
their children.  All adolescent girls go through pretty much the same
problems and personal identity issues; they just chose to cope with the
issues differently.  People have habits to compensate for their feelings.
Some people bite their nails when they are nervous, other people will
religiously wash their hands.  When people are stressed they will over eat,
and when they are lonely, they won't eat at all.  It's a matter whether or
not the coping mechanisms are healthy, and in an anorexic's case, they could
lead to death.  So many people confuse anorexics with choosing that
lifestyle.  Where it's not the lifestyle they choose, it's the lifestyle the
person already has that makes them run to something else.

Of course, Dumbass forgets many things...things is a disorder of the young,
in most cases. OK, 6% to 20% death rate ain't no big deal, right? Until you
start thinking about the age of the dead!!! Which of course, the moron never
did!

20% dead at age 17? Is that acceptable? Ever! Apparently to Ignorant, it is.

I did suffer from anorexia. I was at about 10% body fat and I looked it, but
I never felt it. I always felt I was fat. I felt that the only thing I could
cojntrol was my weight. I couldn't control anything else in my life. Without
going into things, I just want to say that this is the lowest that the
slimebag has stooped and I don't think he'll say anything further about
anorexia.

You see, if I hadn't stopped, I could have been one of the ones who died,
not who survived. That means a whole lot more than some really stupid troll.

Martha

I objected to you saying, "do you want to get breast cancer" in the
context of advocating choosing anorexia as a reasonable risk management
method.  You really did, Ig.  Really.

And 10% of 15 year olds dying from breast cancer is equivalent to 6.3%
of women getting breast cancer by the time they're 90?  (Please note
that most women do NOT die of breast cancer, and the young women who DO
die of breast cancer tend to have the kind that isn't ameliorated by
risk management, i.e., they've got the genetic kind of an aggressive
fast moving tumor.)

You're wrong.

You're wrong: the correlation between these risk factors and breast
cancer is there, but it's slight.  MOST risk factors are minor in
nature.  The big Daddy risk factor isn't identified.  There are ways to
slightly improve your odds of not getting cancer, but the odds improve
so slightly that it's hardly worth mentioning.

So now you're advocating overpopulation as a theoretical method of
reducing your chances of getting (probably curable) breast cancer from 6
to 3 women in 100?

You're not very good at risk/benefit analysis, are you?

A much better reason to breastfeed is the benefits to the child.  The
benefits to the mother are mild and quite possibly outweighed by the
damage to the mother.  (I'm speaking here as someone who nursed all over
her children past infancy.)

How much, at what cost.  That question must be in every single
discussion on this subject.

I'm not living my life in fear of breast cancer.  Colon cancer is just
as likely to get me, and heart disease is the one with a bullet with my
name on it.  But at this point I'm better off making sure I buckle my
seat belt and having a working smoke detector.

Dally

Ah, good point.  He's the one who goes through BFL and says, do you
think she looked better in her bikini before or after.  I forgot.
Thanks for the reminder PG!