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How to become obese - secrets revealed!

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Robin King - 16 Jun 2004 00:26 GMT
Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical
 
A University of California, Berkeley-led survey of women defined as
clinically obese shows that nearly two-thirds of them went on their first
diet before age 14 and, as adults, were more likely to be heavier than
women who started dieting after age 14.
The survey, published in this month's issue of the Journal of the American
Dietetic Association, also found that those who started dieting before age
14 were more than twice as likely to have dieted more than 20 times when
compared with women who began dieting later in life.

Respondents said they tried a range of dieting techniques, from hypnotism
to low-calorie diets to commercial weight loss programs, in their lifelong
attempts to lose weight. Some women surveyed were even prescribed
amphetamines, a common treatment for weight loss in the 1960s and early
'70s.

"These findings should counter the popular myth that fat people are lazy
gluttons, and that they've never made an effort to manage their weight,"
said Joanne Ikeda, co-director of UC Berkeley's Center for Weight & Health
and lead author of the study.

She added that there is "growing evidence that repeated dieting adversely
affects the body's metabolism, and that dieting before puberty disrupts the
body's normal development."

Ikeda, a cooperative extension specialist in nutrition education at UC
Berkeley's College of Natural Resources, collected the survey data over a
period of nine months during 2000-2001. The 149 respondents were attendees
at two annual conferences for large women, participants from a prior
research study of large women, or participants of group listserves that
target large women. All respondents had a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or
higher - the clinical definition of obesity - with a mean BMI of 46.

When asked about their ability to maintain weight loss, 77 percent of the
respondents said they were not able to maintain any weight loss, 13 percent
reported maintaining a five - to 20 - pound weight loss, and nine percent
said they maintained a weight loss of 21 pounds or more.

Among those who began dieting before age 14, 84 percent said they weren't
able to maintain any permanent weight loss. This compares with 67 percent
of those who started dieting at age 14 or later.

Ikeda said the survey results are particularly troubling, as other studies
have shown that dieting during adolescence results in weight gain, not
weight loss.

"There's a myth out there that calorie restriction on the whole is a
positive way to lose weight," said Ikeda. "But studies have found that high
school girls who said they were dieting were at greater risk for becoming
obese three years later."

Several respondents in her survey said they were not significantly
overweight when they started dieting as young teens. "My concern is that
there is a subsample of the population that is particularly vulnerable to
the negative effects of yo-yo dieting," said Ikeda. "Many women in the
study said they wished they had never started dieting in the first place."

Ikeda cautions that her survey was not a randomized sampling of obese women
in the United States and that this limits her ability to generalize the
findings. In addition, there was no comparison group of women with BMIs of
less than 30.

Nevertheless, the survey provides some key insights into the dieting
experiences of a significant number of obese women, said Ikeda.

"I suggest that dietitians and obese women shift their focus from weight to
metabolic fitness," said Ikeda. "They should look at ways to improve blood
pressure and levels of glucose, insulin and lipids rather than what the
scale says."

Ikeda admits that her anti-dieting views on weight and health put her in
the minority among nutrition and health professionals. "If people have
already seriously tried to lose weight three times and regained that weight
back all three times, I'd say stop dieting and live with the weight they've
got," said Ikeda. "At some point, you've got to say, 'This is not working
for me.' You need to find an alternative. Adopt a healthy lifestyle, and
let the weight stabilize."

To help advise families with overweight children, Ikeda has developed a
pamphlet that focuses on behavioral changes rather than on the child's
weight. Guidelines include limiting television viewing time to less than
two hours a day, encouraging kids to play actively at least 60 minutes a
day, checking to see that they are eating five or more servings of fruits
and vegetables each day, and limiting consumption of nutrient-poor junk
food.

Other co-authors of the study are Patricia Lyons of Connection Women's
Health Consulting; Flavia Schwartzman of Cooperative Extension Alameda
County and a visiting scholar at UC Berkeley at the time of the study; and
Rita Mitchell of UC Berkeley's Department of Nutritional Sciences and
Toxicology.

The survey was co-sponsored by the National Association to Advance Fat
Acceptance.

http://www.berkeley.edu
Katie - 16 Jun 2004 06:15 GMT
>Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
>Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical

Shocking!
>  
>A University of California, Berkeley-led survey of women defined as
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>period of nine months during 2000-2001. The 149 respondents were attendees
>at two annual conferences for large women,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Translation:  NAAFA Conference.

> participants from a prior
>research study of large women, or participants of group listserves that
>target large women. All respondents had a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or
>higher - the clinical definition of obesity - with a mean BMI of 46.

At 46, the mean BMI is well above the threshold of morbid obesity.

>When asked about their ability to maintain weight loss, 77 percent of the
>respondents said they were not able to maintain any weight loss, 13 percent
>reported maintaining a five - to 20 - pound weight loss, and nine percent
>said they maintained a weight loss of 21 pounds or more.

The survey participants are people who are gluttons and have no willpower.
IOW, NAAFA members.

>Among those who began dieting before age 14, 84 percent said they weren't
>able to maintain any permanent weight loss. This compares with 67 percent
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>have shown that dieting during adolescence results in weight gain, not
>weight loss.

This is SUCH a scientific survey-NOT!

>"There's a myth out there that calorie restriction on the whole is a
>positive way to lose weight," said Ikeda. "But studies have found that high
>school girls who said they were dieting were at greater risk for becoming
>obese three years later."

Which studies are those?  Correlation does not prove causation.

>Several respondents in her survey said they were not significantly
>overweight when they started dieting as young teens. "My concern is that
>there is a subsample of the population that is particularly vulnerable to
>the negative effects of yo-yo dieting," said Ikeda. "Many women in the
>study said they wished they had never started dieting in the first place."

The NAAFA members who were surveyed did not have the willpower to reign in
their gluttony after they went all of their diets.

>Ikeda cautions that her survey was not a randomized sampling of obese women
>in the United States and that this limits her ability to generalize the
>findings. In addition, there was no comparison group of women with BMIs of
>less than 30.

Basically two groups of fat acceptors were unscientifically surveyed.

>Nevertheless, the survey provides some key insights into the dieting
>experiences of a significant number of obese women, said Ikeda.

The only insight this very unscientific survey provides is NAAFA members
are long on excuses, short on willpower.

>"I suggest that dietitians and obese women shift their focus from weight to
>metabolic fitness," said Ikeda. "They should look at ways to improve blood
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>for me.' You need to find an alternative. Adopt a healthy lifestyle, and
>let the weight stabilize."

Adopting a healthy lifestyle will cause the weight to drop off then
stabilize.

>To help advise families with overweight children, Ikeda has developed a
>pamphlet that focuses on behavioral changes rather than on the child's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>and vegetables each day, and limiting consumption of nutrient-poor junk
>food.

You won't see that pamphlet showing up on the NAAFA web site.

>Other co-authors of the study are Patricia Lyons of Connection Women's
>Health Consulting; Flavia Schwartzman of Cooperative Extension Alameda
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>The survey was co-sponsored by the National Association to Advance Fat
>Acceptance.

Is this the same Robin King that gets her parachute knickers in a bunch
about a conflict of interest when a peer-reviewed study is *alleged* to be
paid for by the diet industry?
jitney - 16 Jun 2004 21:31 GMT
> >Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
> >Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Translation:  NAAFA Conference.
> At 46, the mean BMI is well above the threshold of morbid obesity.

> The survey participants are people who are gluttons and have no willpower.
> IOW, NAAFA members.

> This is SUCH a scientific survey-NOT!

> Which studies are those?  Correlation does not prove causation.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Adopting a healthy lifestyle will cause the weight to drop off then
> stabilize.

> >The survey was co-sponsored by the National Association to Advance Fat
> >Acceptance.
>
> Is this the same Robin King that gets her parachute knickers in a bunch
> about a conflict of interest when a peer-reviewed study is *alleged* to be
> paid for by the diet industry?

A quote from my earlier post is appropriate here:

I'll extend the analogy:
"Mankind, over the eons, developed judgementalism as a way of
directing attention away from their pathetic, meaningless lives,
towards someone else with bodily features different from their own,
attaching all sorts of moral attributes to skin color, height, bulges,
hair color, eye shape and any other feature that differed from their
own. In this manner, they were able to achieve a giddy and
intoxicating feeling of self-righteousness. Over time, this feeling
became so ingrained that it became impervious to any outside
questioning or criticism, until the transformation from human being to
raving as$hole became complete and irreversible."
Now how is that for a piece of natural history?-Jitney
Daedalus - 16 Jun 2004 21:34 GMT
>> >Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
>> >Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>raving as$hole became complete and irreversible."
> Now how is that for a piece of natural history?-Jitney

Pretty myopic, baseless and stupid.

Jade
A J Davenport - 17 Jun 2004 01:43 GMT
Somebody using an anonymous remailer to hide behind while making snide
little comments, how predictable.

> >Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
> >Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical
>
> Shocking!

What is shocking is that girls are starting to diet at younger and
younger ages.  Nine year old 4th graders are assimlating the media
generated pervasive fat hatred and starting to disorder their eating
by "dieting."  The fact that most 9 year olds don't have the resources
to understand that if they concentrate on eating healthy and find some
sort of movement they enjoy thier bodies would be just fine.  This
lack of information is not one that allows for learning healthy
habits.

> >A University of California, Berkeley-led survey of women defined as
> >clinically obese shows that nearly two-thirds of them went on their first
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Translation:  NAAFA Conference.

Where better to find a pool of fat people who have tried dieting and
who have been the "beneficiaries" of many "medically supervised"
weight loss scams, from diuretics to amphetamines?

> > participants from a prior
> >research study of large women, or participants of group listserves that
> >target large women. All respondents had a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or
> >higher - the clinical definition of obesity - with a mean BMI of 46.
>
> At 46, the mean BMI is well above the threshold of morbid obesity.

Yes, it is, and your point is?

> >When asked about their ability to maintain weight loss, 77 percent of the
> >respondents said they were not able to maintain any weight loss, 13 percent
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The survey participants are people who are gluttons and have no willpower.
> IOW, NAAFA members.

Actually that 9% figure of people who managed to maintain a weight
loss is far above the usual 2-5% success rate that is usually seen as
the norm.

> >Among those who began dieting before age 14, 84 percent said they weren't
> >able to maintain any permanent weight loss. This compares with 67 percent
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> This is SUCH a scientific survey-NOT!

And this study, scientific or not, is in agreement with the other
studies that show that dieting [that is a concetrated effort to reduce
calories consumed]during adolescence results in weight gain.

> >"There's a myth out there that calorie restriction on the whole is a
> >positive way to lose weight," said Ikeda. "But studies have found that high
> >school girls who said they were dieting were at greater risk for becoming
> >obese three years later."
>
> Which studies are those?  

Saw one not too long ago that address this very fact.  The conclusion
of the researchers based on the results they saw in a random sampling
of teens [both fat and not] supported this very precept.

>Correlation does not prove causation.

The exact things we FA have been saying for years.  

> >Several respondents in her survey said they were not significantly
> >overweight when they started dieting as young teens. "My concern is that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The NAAFA members who were surveyed did not have the willpower to reign in
> their gluttony after they went all of their diets.

NAAFA's no diet stance and the FA movement [of which I speak as a
individual] who have changed our life style to eating healthier and
moving more are more successful at permenent weight loss than the
norm, hardly gluttons with no willpower.

> >Ikeda cautions that her survey was not a randomized sampling of obese women
> >in the United States and that this limits her ability to generalize the
> >findings. In addition, there was no comparison group of women with BMIs of
> >less than 30.
>
> Basically two groups of fat acceptors were unscientifically surveyed.

This study as least admits that it wasn't random and that the results
may not be indicative of the population as a whole, a much more
scientific stance than most, IMO.

> >Nevertheless, the survey provides some key insights into the dieting
> >experiences of a significant number of obese women, said Ikeda.
>
> The only insight this very unscientific survey provides is NAAFA members
> are long on excuses, short on willpower.

You've got issues, with NAAFA, that much is clear.  

Why you feel you have the obligation to to speak for NAAFA when you
have some very skewed views of thier mission, statements and the
individual rights of their membership is beyond me.  Although I
consider myself a fat accpetor I'm not a member of NAAFA and feel no
such obligation.

> >"I suggest that dietitians and obese women shift their focus from weight to
> >metabolic fitness," said Ikeda. "They should look at ways to improve blood
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Adopting a healthy lifestyle will cause the weight to drop off then
> stabilize.

Yes, and that is EXACTLY the position that NAAFA endorses, but with
the caveat that weight loss is not the most important aspect of this
plan, healthy living is.  For you see, if people make changes to their
lifestyle, and do not lose weight they may figure, what is the use?
and go back to unhealthy habits that may result in even more weight
gain.

> >To help advise families with overweight children, Ikeda has developed a
> >pamphlet that focuses on behavioral changes rather than on the child's
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> You won't see that pamphlet showing up on the NAAFA web site.

No, because NAAFA is not in the business of telling people how to
raise their children.

But in any event, every child today could benefit from turning off the
TV, doing something active, and limiting their junk food intake, fat
or not!

> >Other co-authors of the study are Patricia Lyons of Connection Women's
> >Health Consulting; Flavia Schwartzman of Cooperative Extension Alameda
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> about a conflict of interest when a peer-reviewed study is *alleged* to be
> paid for by the diet industry?

Yes, it is.  In most research there is a direct line from the entity
who funded the research to prove that their "product" supports the
conclusion of the study.  Simple formula actually - follow the money.

The only people who stand to benefit from the above study are fat
people who refuse to buy into the $40 billion a year diet industry.

Given that Robin at least has a verifiable identity and doesn't hide
behind an anonymous remailer, she is still far above you in
credibility.

AJ
Because, somebody has to be the Diva!
s pa rk s - 17 Jun 2004 06:06 GMT
> >Survey finds over 60% of clinically obese women began dieting before 14
> >Thursday, 10-Jun-2004, by News-Medical
>
> Shocking!

I can barely breathe with this shocking revelation. Skewed data twisted
to meet a preconceived notion! Who would of believed it???

> >  
> >A University of California, Berkeley-led survey of women defined as
> >clinically obese shows that nearly two-thirds of them went on their first
> >diet before age 14 and, as adults, were more likely to be heavier than
> >women who started dieting after age 14.

Anyone want to bet I can find a group of thin women who dieted before
14? Or a group of thin women who were once fat, but learned to keep the
weight off?

> Is this the same Robin King that gets her parachute knickers in a bunch
> about a conflict of interest when a peer-reviewed study is *alleged* to be
> paid for by the diet industry?

One in the same.
alexbrown77 - 17 Jun 2004 17:52 GMT
I think it is so sad that people are freaking out about a couple of
obese kids and are changing school lunches and everything else to
freak out all of the healthy kids into thinking that if they have a
piece of pizza every once in a while, they will become obese. No
wonder we have eat disorder problems. If parents would take some
responsibilty and teach their kids nutrition and that they can eat the
foods that they enjoy as long as they balance it out with healthy
food, then girls would be fine and we would not have these obesity
issues. It frustrates me so much.
Daedalus - 17 Jun 2004 18:15 GMT
>I think it is so sad that people are freaking out about a couple of
>obese kids and are changing school lunches and everything else to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>food, then girls would be fine and we would not have these obesity
>issues. It frustrates me so much.

I think it is a major understatement to say "a couple of obese kids" I
see fat kids everywhere these days. When I was in school there was one
fat kid I can remember my whole time in the elementary grades.

Go to a mall or the beach or just about any public place with a lot of
kids and I'd say the fat kids come pretty close to even odds with the
normal weight and thin kids.

I agree with you that I'm not sure school lunch is the place to lay
the blame. I don't really know what they are serving these days, but
it couldn't have been that healthy when I was in school either. I
remember a lot of pizza and sloppy joes, steamed corn and junk like
that. There was salad sometimes. Nobody really stressed about
nutrition that much either and yet nobody was fat.

The one big difference I know of is we were never allowed to have soda
pop, just water or milk. I know lots of schools let kids drink as much
soda as they want and that can be a whole days calories right there.

I think it's probably more what fat kids eat at home than school. It
seems like snack companies that market to kids are trying to come up
with more processed, sugar filled snacks all the time. I don't think
their parents are controlling it enogh. I also notice a lot of fat
kids have obese parents, so eating habits in the house can't be that
great.

I think one of the biggest things is probably the excercise. You don't
see kids playing outside as much as you used to and the ones you do
see aren't fat.

I think I probably ate like crap when I was a kid, but between recess,
gym class and until sundown about every night after school I was
probably getting 5 or 6 hours of excercise a day.

The problem is that the public at large can't control what parents do,
so they automatically knee jerk and go after the one thing they do
have some control over - public education.

Jade
Me - 17 Jun 2004 18:59 GMT
> I think it is so sad that people are freaking out about a couple of
> obese kids

It's not a couple, it's tens of millions.

> and are changing school lunches and everything else to

School lunches need changes. Children need feeding healthy
food, not cheap deep-fried garbage.

> freak out all of the healthy kids into thinking that if they have a
> piece of pizza every once in a while, they will become obese.

It's not having a piece of pizza 'every once in a while', it's
having it every single f.cking day.
Marcio Watanabe - 17 Jun 2004 23:28 GMT
>I think it is so sad that people are freaking out about a couple of
>obese kids and are changing school lunches and everything else to

A couple?!  According to this msnbc article, 2 in 5 school children
are overweight in Arkansas, and nearly 1 in 4 are obese.  That's
hardly a couple.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5131109

When I was a child, there was one or two overweight kids in school.
Today, overweight kids are everywhere.
Jane Lumley - 20 Jun 2004 12:08 GMT
>I think it is so sad that people are freaking out about a couple of
>obese kids and are changing school lunches and everything else to
>freak out all of the healthy kids into thinking that if they have a
>piece of pizza every once in a while, they will become obese.

This doesn't seem the biggest risk right now.  When I visit the US I see
many, many very overweight children, and it's happening here now as
well.  

The number of 'healthy kids' is getting smaller, which isn't a surprise
when you realise that the food cooked and served to children is among
the worst form every possible point of view - additives, processing,
animal welfare, industrial farming, exploitation of labourers.  I cannot
help thinking that the epidemic of obesity is at least partially due to
the horrible substances put into food by agribusiness - not entirely due
to it, but it may be a factor.  Pigs and cows and above all chickens are
stuffed with growth hormone - surely this must impact on our kids too?  

You can't actually balance out one food with another, btw.  Take in a
piece of school pizza, and you are getting a cocktail of salt,
additives, sugar and carbohydrates laced with transfats.  Going home and
eating a salad with flaxseeds can't possible create balance.  

However, I agree that parents need to take responsibility, and one easy
way would be to junk the ready-meals and go back to home cooking
avoiding waste, using up leftovers in traditional ways, and using
seasonal ingredients.  It would be better for us and our children, and
for the world.  

And in case anyone thinks I'm speaking from some position of luxury, I
shall add that I am a working mother myself with no domestic help - not
even childcare.  Yet my children never eat bought bread or cake and we
have never had a ready meal or frozen meal in the house.  If we come
home hungry for lunch or dinner we make omelettes, occasionally pasta,
salads, vegetables, soup (which is great for judicious use of
leftovers).  If we are all really tired we have something eggish with
salad and herbs; this actually takes LESS time than a ready-meal.  We
rarely waste food or throw anything away; if we have roast chicken one
night, we have the leftover meat as part of a salad, then we have soup
made with the carcass.  Leftover bread becomes croutons, bread pudding,
pain perdu.  We have no chips or sweets ever, though we do have puddings
(ie dessert) with dinner - mainly fruit-based - and cake - home-made -
once a week or thereabouts.  

The result?  My children are slim and energetic.  They never ask for
sweets at the supermarket, or anywhere else - actually, we usually shop
for most stuff at local speciality stores, but occasionally resort to
Waitrose for eg foil.  They dislike children's menu-style food and will
reject chicken nuggets and industrial pizza, though I make them homemade
burgers every now and then - less than once a month - and pizza equally
infrequently.  If asked what their favourite food is, they would
probably say 'rack of lamb with herb and pecan crust, and passionfruit
sorbet', or maybe 'roast cod or halibut'.  (We don't have these things
too often, because they are not exactly cheap).  They have all kinds of
ideas about food and enjoy cooking themselves.  

Anyone can do what I do.  Most people just don't want to.  I hate to be
judgmental, but I can't help noticing that most people watch a lot more
tv than we do..... I know I sound smug, but I do feel crusading.  I
worry about the kids I see, forced to eat crap because their parents
aren't trying.  
Signature

Jane Lumley

Cubit - 20 Jun 2004 19:11 GMT
>  If asked what their favourite food is, they would
> probably say 'rack of lamb with herb and pecan crust, and passionfruit
> sorbet'

Could your children be gay?

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to make fun....

By the way, that pasta you are feeding them is poison.
Jane Lumley - 20 Jun 2004 21:18 GMT
>>  If asked what their favourite food is, they would
>> probably say 'rack of lamb with herb and pecan crust, and passionfruit
>> sorbet'
>
>Could your children be gay?

Don't mind if they are.  

>Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to make fun....
>
>By the way, that pasta you are feeding them is poison.

Well, they only get their poison once or twice a month.  And it's
wholemeal pasta.  
Signature

Jane Lumley

alexbrown77 - 23 Jun 2004 16:15 GMT
Jane,

I have to say that I am really impressed. It is wonder to hear a
parent that it making healthy choices for their children before they
are old enough to make them on their own. I wish I had grown up with
that. I agree with the above poster as well that I think most of our
obesity issues with children have to do with the parents instead of
the school and I can agree that there are more than a few obese
children out there. I don't think that it just comes from the sodas
though. I had those when i was a kid to. I think it has more to do
with the exercise and the dinners. I have heard that several schools
do not even have recess any more--how are kids suppose to run around?
Plus, I am not sure how many parents encourage their children to
participate in activies or feel that they have the time to cook good
meals. I wish they knew how important it was.
Low Carber in Canada - 23 Jun 2004 23:58 GMT
> I agree with the above poster as well that I think most of our
> obesity issues with children have to do with the parents instead of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> participate in activies or feel that they have the time to cook good
> meals. I wish they knew how important it was.

Don't you mean that most issues have to do with both parents AND schools?

If they don't get to run around due to lack of recess, then the schools hold
accountability as well.
Not to mention all the "hot dog" days, "treat days", "chip days", "bake
sales" and "one-child-trading-food-with-another-child-at-school" days.
alexbrown77 - 25 Jun 2004 21:34 GMT
That is a good arguement with recess but I do have to say that I feel
that 99% of the responsibility is with the parents. I do think that
schools are responsible for providing opportunities for children to be
healthy but they should not force it. For example, they should provide
balls for activities such as soccer or kickball during recess but
should not force children to play just as they should provide healthy
options for lunch but I do not think that they should force kids to
eat them.
 
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