Questions for low-carbers

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Anny Middon - 27 Jun 2004 18:13 GMT

I know there are some low-carbers here and thought maybe this would be a
place to ask my questions.

I tried the low-carb diet amost two years ago and it wasn't for me. But
that was before the low carb diet was as popular as it is now and I'm
guessing htere has been a lot of research since on the diet, so my questions
may now have answers.

When I tried the low-carb diet there were a couple of widely-held beliefs
about the WOL that I'm wondering if are true.

1. When you low-carb and go into ketosis (which you want to do, I was told)
and then you cheat, it takes a few days for your body to get back into
weight-loss mode. So if you go to a birthday party on Saturday, give into
temptation and eat a big slice of frosted cake and a scoop of ice cream, you
not only negated your weight loss for Saturday but, despite being strictly
low-carb after that, for Sunday and Monday and maybe Tuesday, too.

Note that no one ever used that to be a good excuse for not getting right
back on plan, but it was considered important information for the low-carber
to have. Is it true?

2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back, your second
(and any other later) round will be slower going than the first time. That
is, if you averaged, say, three pounds per week the first low-carb diet, you
might average only a pound or so a week the second time around.

There was only anecdotal evidence for this, but lots of people had such
anecdotes. Is it true?

I have no real reason for wanting answers to these questions other than
strong curiosity about how the human body works with respect to nutrition.

Anny

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Ignoramus29633 - 27 Jun 2004 19:35 GMT

> I know there are some low-carbers here and thought maybe this would be a
> place to ask my questions.

An even better place would be alt.support.diet.low-carb.

> I tried the low-carb diet amost two years ago and it wasn't for me.

In what sense it was not for you?

Have you found something better than that? If so, congratulations.

> But that was before the low carb diet was as popular as it is now
> and I'm guessing htere has been a lot of research since on the diet,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Saturday but, despite being strictly low-carb after that, for Sunday
> and Monday and maybe Tuesday, too.

This could be stated in terms of calories, also, if you overeat one
day, it takes quite a few days and some exercise to get rid of those
extra calories.

> Note that no one ever used that to be a good excuse for not getting
> right back on plan, but it was considered important information for
> the low-carber to have. Is it true?

Yes.

> 2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back,
> your second (and any other later) round will be slower going than
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> There was only anecdotal evidence for this, but lots of people had such
> anecdotes. Is it true?

Dr. Atkins says so.

> I have no real reason for wanting answers to these questions other
> than strong curiosity about how the human body works with respect to
> nutrition.

Curiosity is a good thing.

i

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rosie read and post - 27 Jun 2004 19:59 GMT

have you tried:

ALT.SUPPORT.DIET.LOW-CARB

Signature

rosie
http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/25/news/fortune500/homedepot/index.htm

: I know there are some low-carbers here and thought maybe this would be a
: place to ask my questions.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
:
: Anny

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Jeri - 27 Jun 2004 23:14 GMT

> I know there are some low-carbers here and thought maybe this would
> be a place to ask my questions.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> right back on plan, but it was considered important information for
> the low-carber to have. Is it true?

I don't believe it stops weightloss any more than it would if you were on a
low calorie diet. However, if you eat enough carbs in one sitting you will
replenish your glycogen stores that you lost when you started low carb.
Along with each molecule of glycogen comes 3-4 molecules of water. So it may
seem as if you've stopped losing or even gained a few pounds but in reality
you've just regained the water weight you lost in the beginning. Once you go
back into ketosis you will again lose the water. How long that takes varies
from person to person.

> 2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back, your
> second (and any other later) round will be slower going than the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> There was only anecdotal evidence for this, but lots of people had
> such anecdotes. Is it true?

This again is a YMMV (your mileage may vary) thing. I don't think there's
any explanation of why it happens to some. It definitely doesn't happen to
everyone.

Signature

Jeri
"Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."

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Anny Middon - 29 Jun 2004 18:48 GMT

> I don't believe it stops weightloss any more than it would if you were on a
> low calorie diet. However, if you eat enough carbs in one sitting you will
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> back into ketosis you will again lose the water. How long that takes varies
> from person to person.

Thanks, Jeri -- that's exactly what I wanted to know!

> > 2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back, your
> > second (and any other later) round will be slower going than the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> any explanation of why it happens to some. It definitely doesn't happen to
> everyone.

And again, thanks. I hope some research is done that shows why this happens
for some -- the amount we know about the human body, nutition and weight
loss is frighteningly small.

Anny

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Jane Lumley - 28 Jun 2004 16:39 GMT

>1. When you low-carb and go into ketosis (which you want to do, I was told)
>and then you cheat, it takes a few days for your body to get back into
>weight-loss mode. So if you go to a birthday party on Saturday, give into
>temptation and eat a big slice of frosted cake and a scoop of ice cream, you
>not only negated your weight loss for Saturday but, despite being strictly
>low-carb after that, for Sunday and Monday and maybe Tuesday, too.

The sad and horrible fact is that this is the case whatever diet you are
on, in that eg birthday cake and icecream could clock up 2000 calories,
which is a bit over half a pound of gloop on your hips.

In Atkins it will also give you carb cravings for a day or two. But the
weight you regain will be water weight, plus the weight that you would
have gained on any plan.

The water weight will come off hearteningly fast when you go back to low
carbing. I find that when I've done this I need to avoid ANY carbs for
three or four days afterwards, and also caffeine, to get weight loss
reestablished. Lots of heavy cardio also helps - like 2+ hours per day
- ideally all at once, though mini-workouts are good too - and some
weights.

Take what you want and pay for it, says God. As always.

Signature

Jane Lumley

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Beverly - 29 Jun 2004 14:42 GMT

> >1. When you low-carb and go into ketosis (which you want to do, I was told)
> >and then you cheat, it takes a few days for your body to get back into
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> on, in that eg birthday cake and icecream could clock up 2000 calories,
> which is a bit over half a pound of gloop on your hips.

For 2000 calories you would have to eat quite a bit of that birthday cake
and ice cream<G>

> In Atkins it will also give you carb cravings for a day or two. But the
> weight you regain will be water weight, plus the weight that you would
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Take what you want and pay for it, says God. As always.

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Doug Freyburger - 28 Jun 2004 20:22 GMT

> I tried the low-carb diet amost two years ago and it wasn't for me. But
> that was before the low carb diet was as popular as it is now and I'm
> guessing htere has been a lot of research since on the diet

Was it not for you because of the propaganda of the day? If so then
you will eventually switch form plan to plan to plan independent of
whether each one works for you.

If it was not for you because of something within yourself, do you
have any reason to think that has changed?

Take a deep look within yourself and think that over. There is no
point starting something you know you will quit.

> 1. When you low-carb and go into ketosis (which you want to do, I was told)
> and then you cheat, it takes a few days for your body to get back into
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> back on plan, but it was considered important information for the low-carber
> to have. Is it true?

When you low fat and one day you eat a ton of fat, isn't that the
exact same issue? Or are you really just looking for unfair
disadvantages? Low carbing works when you're on it. Go off it
and it doesn't work. No different from any other plan that way.

> 2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back, your second
> (and any other later) round will be slower going than the first time. That
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> There was only anecdotal evidence for this, but lots of people had such
> anecdotes. Is it true?

If you lose weight low-fatting then regain a lot of it back,
your second time round will be ...

Simply put, our bodies develop a resistance to the ways we abuse them.
The solution isn't to devise more bizzare forms of abuse. The solution
is to do healthy stuff that isn't an abuse and the KEEP doing THAT.

If you decide to yoyo, you will be screwed no matter what plan you
yoyo on and off of. So pick a plan you think you can stick with and
stick with it.

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Anny Middon - 29 Jun 2004 18:46 GMT

> > I tried the low-carb diet amost two years ago and it wasn't for me. But
> > that was before the low carb diet was as popular as it is now and I'm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> you will eventually switch form plan to plan to plan independent of
> whether each one works for you.

It wasn't for me because I found it too restrictive.

> If it was not for you because of something within yourself, do you
> have any reason to think that has changed?

Nothing inside me has changed. I'm not low-carbing and have no intention of
doing so,

> Take a deep look within yourself and think that over. There is no
> point starting something you know you will quit.

I have no intention of starting a low-carb WOE. What gave you the idea I
did?

> > 1. When you low-carb and go into ketosis (which you want to do, I was told)
> > and then you cheat, it takes a few days for your body to get back into
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> disadvantages? Low carbing works when you're on it. Go off it
> and it doesn't work. No different from any other plan that way.

My understanding is that it's not the same issue. Suppose there are two
people, one who is low-carbing, the other following a low-calorie plan.
Each has consumed foods totalling 1000 calories before the party, and each
is at a weight and metabolism level where 1500 calories daily will maintain
the weight.

At the party each eats a piece of frosted chocolate layer cake (248
calories, 41 grams of carbs per Fitday) and a cup of chocolate ice cream
(273 calories, 37 grams carbs per Fitday).

The low calorie person will basically maintain his/her weight having
consumed 21 calories more than what is needed to maintain. The next day he
or she will resume losing weight, assuming of course that he or she eats the
budgeted number of calories fo weight-loss.

But the low-carber, as I understand it, has gone out of ketosis and
effectively derailed his or her diet program for 2 or 3 days. Is my
understanding correct?

(And before you accuse me again of looking for unfair disadvantages, I want
to know only because I'm curious about how the human body works in regards
to nutrition. I have nothing against the low-carb WOE and know people for
whom it was and continues to be the perfect plan.)

> > 2. If you lose weight low-carbing then regain a lot of it back, your second
> > (and any other later) round will be slower going than the first time. That
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> The solution isn't to devise more bizzare forms of abuse. The solution
> is to do healthy stuff that isn't an abuse and the KEEP doing THAT.

Not according to my understanding. The person who loses weight on a
low-calorie plan and regains a lot of it will do about as well on the
low-calorie plan the next time around. I have heard however that this is
not true ofr the low-carber, wonder if what I heard was accurate, and if
there are any theories as to why this is so.

> If you decide to yoyo, you will be screwed no matter what plan you
> yoyo on and off of. So pick a plan you think you can stick with and
> stick with it.

True enough, but I don't know a single person who decides to yoyo. Everyone
I know who has lost significant weight has declared that he or she will
never put the weight back on, and yet most have done so. It's a hard fact
of life that the recidivism rate for any weight loss plan is high.

Anny

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Doug Freyburger - 30 Jun 2004 23:12 GMT

> > > I tried the low-carb diet amost two years ago and it wasn't for me. But
> > > that was before the low carb diet was as popular as it is now and I'm
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I have no intention of starting a low-carb WOE. What gave you the idea I
> did?

You did bring it up in your original post.

> > > Note that no one ever used that to be a good excuse for not getting
> > > right back on plan, but it was considered important information for the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> effectively derailed his or her diet program for 2 or 3 days. Is my
> understanding correct?

You're playing scenario games that are irrelevant. Losing fat is
not about any one single day. Studies show that low carb works 4%
better than low fat for the first six months and both work equally
well after that.

Try supposing six months, a single day isn't important. If you
try to evaluate a single day you are automatically searching for
something to call wrong. If you now proceed to post a make-wrong
post about low fat, then one about low calorie, you're being fair.

> (And before you accuse me again of looking for unfair disadvantages, I want
> to know only because I'm curious about how the human body works in regards
> to nutrition. I have nothing against the low-carb WOE and know people for
> whom it was and continues to be the perfect plan.)

Glyogen issues were already discussed in this thread. Carb up,
store glycogen, retain water. Carb back down, stop storing carbs,
drop the water it was stored in.

> > If you decide to yoyo, you will be screwed no matter what plan you
> > yoyo on and off of. So pick a plan you think you can stick with and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> never put the weight back on, and yet most have done so. It's a hard fact
> of life that the recidivism rate for any weight loss plan is high.

This means that whenever someone starts any type of plan, the single
most important factor is whether that particular plan will end up
driving them off it. Very low calorie plans cause long term hunger
in everyone so they eventually knock everyone off. The only way to
deal with very low calorie is to have an increased calorie level in
maintenance that doesn't trigger hunger. Low fat plans trigger
hunger in some, not in others, so some can stick with low fat and
others can't. Some are too tempted by carbs to stick to low carb,
others like the food, so some can stick with low carb, others can't.

If you've lost on some plan and then regained, it is either time to
try a different type of plan, or it is time to study the maintenance
phase very carefully.

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