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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / July 2004A Big Thank You and Latest Nutritionist Visit (blah)
Hi everyone -- Thanks so much to everyone who made such nice comments on the photos I posted yesterday. I really needed to get that support after seeing the results of my last nutritionist's visit. At my best (maybe October or November visit?) I had been down to 20.2% body fat and 150 lbs. on his scale. Yesterday I was 160 and 26.7% body fat. I cannot believe I gained this month after all that walking (90 miles in 14 days) and three good weeks of keeping a food journal. I let the food slide a little (and I mean a little) the last week with unhappy results. It's not the weight itself I am concerned about but the increase in body fat while continuing to lose muscle (despite lots of weight training too). My trainer said today to mix up the cardio exercise because my body is obviously too used to what I'm doing (even though I doubled my efforts on endurance), and try cycling, swimming, a kickboxing class, etc. to confuse my body a little. Also to add intervals (short bursts of extra intensity) in my walks. So I am going to do so (I already did an interval walk today), and I am also going to keep a food journal for all four weeks before my next visit. And if I gain next month, then perhaps it's time for a visit to my family doctor to be sure my bloodwork still looks good. I can't help but think that inhaled steroids might also be a problem -- but I've brought this up before here, and others have said that Advair (sort of like what I take) hasn't affected their weight loss. To make myself feel better, I will post the results of my first nutritionist visit and my most recent one to show myself that I truly have made progress -- I don't want to get discouraged. Total Weight: May 7, 2002: 228.0 lbs July 5, 2004: 160.2 lbs Fat Body Weight: May 7, 2002: 103.3 lbs July 5, 2004: 42.8 lbs Lean Body Weight: May 7, 2002: 124.7 lbs July 5, 2004: 117.4 lbs Percent Body Fat: May 7, 2002: 45.3% July 5, 2004: 26.7% Thanks again for your support -- I truly appreciate it! Mary M 325-160(ugh)-148 > Hi everyone -- > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of keeping a food journal. I let the food slide a little (and I mean a little) the > last week with unhappy results. Scary news... Feels like loss of control etc. > It's not the weight itself I am concerned about but the increase in body fat while > continuing to lose muscle (despite lots of weight training too). My trainer said [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > here, and others have said that Advair (sort of like what I take) hasn't affected > their weight loss. Mary, what kind of weight training do you do? Is it actually strenuous weight training, where after say 10 reps you cannot continue the exercise? > To make myself feel better, I will post the results of my first nutritionist visit > and my most recent one to show myself that I truly have made progress -- I don't want [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > May 7, 2002: 124.7 lbs > July 5, 2004: 117.4 lbs very good results, the key is to maintain it. As a matter of decision making, I would actually do bloodwork. Also, I would publicly post the food log and exercise log. Do you weigh your food? Also, as you are getting older, your calorie needs decrease also. Maybe you need to take that into consideration. What is the percentage of fat/carbs/protein do you have in your diet? When you slip up, is it like complete loss of control, or just snacking here and there? As I said earlier, you were my original inspiration, so, please, do not let me down. i > > of keeping a food journal. I let the food slide a little (and I mean a little) the > > last week with unhappy results. > Scary news... Feels like loss of control etc. It seems that I do have to watch every bite -- which is not so bad really -- but sometimes I do get tired of it and just want to "eat like everyone else" -- but that spelled weight disaster for me before and there is no reason to go back to those habits. I am talking about a few handfuls of corn chips at a picnic -- or eating turkey hot dogs at the picnic knowing full well they are way over my sodium allowance, etc. etc. > > here, and others have said that Advair (sort of like what I take) hasn't affected > > their weight loss. > Mary, what kind of weight training do you do? Is it actually strenuous > weight training, where after say 10 reps you cannot continue the > exercise? Yes -- my trainers are very good and mix up each workout so my body doesn't get used to it -- sometimes we do heavy sets with short reps, sometimes lighter weights with more reps, increasing the weight for each set. > very good results, the key is to maintain it. No kidding. > As a matter of decision making, I would actually do bloodwork. Also, I > would publicly post the food log and exercise log. Well I wouldn't, because I don't want a lot of unsolicited advice. All my life people have advised me on how to lose weight and I don't want to open myself up to a bunch of extraneous "noise." I am paying my nutritionist to do the job and I decided a long time ago that as long as I was paying him, I wasn't going to listen to anyone else. I am tired of years of conflicting advice that did nothing but confuse and paralyze me. I do write down my food and exercise daily. Also, most people here have a very different weight history than I do, and what works for them will not necessarily work for me. As my nutritionist explained, a person like you and others who have gained weight in adulthood can lose it very easily with moderate discipline -- he said it really doesn't take that much. On the other hand, someone who has been overweight their entire lives (and who has exceeded 300 lbs.) has a much tougher road and it's almost unheard of for us to reach goal and stay there because of the many issues involved. Also, he said many factors are working against me right now -- age, hormones, being female, and the significant efforts of my body to return to its former weight. >Do you weigh your food? Yes, I weigh or measure only the items I need to count (protein, fruit, grains) -- I never measure or weigh vegetables. >your calorie needs decrease > also. Maybe you need to take that into consideration. We have already addressed that because he's cut out numerous serving allowances over time, which he reviews regularly. > What is the percentage of fat/carbs/protein do you have in your diet? I don't know per se -- my plan allows 15 oz. of protein, 3 fruit servings, 4 grain servings, 2T olive oil, unlimited vegetables. > When you slip up, is it like complete loss of control, or just > snacking here and there? Seems to be snacking here and there with an occasional out-of-control -- such as the other night when I ate a whole bag of microwave popcorn and a small bag of cashews. Had I been keeping the food journal, I never would have eaten those, so my key is keeping the food journal. And staying away from carb-heavy snacks which can easily spiral out of control. He wants me to snack on protein more. > As I said earlier, you were my original inspiration, so, please, do > not let me down. Thanks, Ig -- I don't plan on letting either of us down. :-) Mary Mary, I wasn't around the computer a whole lot this weekend, so I'm jumping in on the thread late. Your pictures are a reminder of how well you are doing overall...that's a good thing to remember. And you're looking and doing GREAT. I sure can relate to the frustration of wanting to eat like everyone else...and of needing, at least for now, to keep a food journal. I didn't write things down this weekend, and for me, journaling is a way of ensuring I don't go overboard. Just seems like what's "overboard" to me is normal (well, less than normal) for others, and it's frustrating me right now. But that's irrelevant (talking only to myself, here). I need to track my food consumption right now; it's clear. Mary, I'm sure you'll be back on solid footing again very soon. You've come so far, and your heart and intentions are in the right place. All that walking you did last week is helping you, even if you aren't right where you want to be at the moment -- your health is benefiting, and I'm sure your weight will come back down to where you want it soon. Best wishes. beeswing > I wasn't around the computer a whole lot this weekend, so I'm jumping in on the > thread late. Your pictures are a reminder of how well you are doing > overall...that's a good thing to remember. And you're looking and doing GREAT. Thank you very much, Beeswing! > I sure can relate to the frustration of wanting to eat like everyone else...and > of needing, at least for now, to keep a food journal. I didn't write things > down this weekend, and for me, journaling is a way of ensuring I don't go > overboard. Just seems like what's "overboard" to me is normal (well, less than > normal) for others, and it's frustrating me right now. Yes, I think this is what eventually gets to me too, but for now it seems I have managed to leave the pity party at a decent hour. :-) > Mary, I'm sure you'll be back on solid footing again very soon. You've come so > far, and your heart and intentions are in the right place. All that walking you > did last week is helping you, even if you aren't right where you want to be at > the moment -- your health is benefiting, and I'm sure your weight will come > back down to where you want it soon. Thanks--I truly appreciate your support and good wishes! Things are definitely getting better and talking about them helps. Mary >> > of keeping a food journal. I let the food slide a little (and I mean a little) > the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > turkey hot dogs at the picnic knowing full well they are way over my > sodium allowance, etc. etc. I also have to watch (at least account for) every bite. >> > here, and others have said that Advair (sort of like what I take) hasn't affected >> > their weight loss. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > reps, sometimes lighter weights with more reps, increasing the > weight for each set. But in the end, your muscles are pretty tired, right? >> As a matter of decision making, I would actually do bloodwork. Also, I >> would publicly post the food log and exercise log. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > nothing but confuse and paralyze me. I do write down my food and > exercise daily. I see making that stuff public, as an accountability tool rather than a way to get advice, but surely, you have your reasons. > Also, most people here have a very different weight history than I > do, and what works for them will not necessarily work for me. As my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > now -- age, hormones, being female, and the significant efforts of > my body to return to its former weight. Understandable and interesting as an anecdotal fact. Myself, even though I was very mildly overweight since childhood, and then started gaining at around 27-28, one of the big reasons for deciding to lose weight then, rather than waiting, was that I felt I was reaching a "point of no return" with my weight. So, yes, no doubt it is very difficult for you. >>your calorie needs decrease >> also. Maybe you need to take that into consideration. > > We have already addressed that because he's cut out numerous serving > allowances over time, which he reviews regularly. Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? >> What is the percentage of fat/carbs/protein do you have in your diet? > > I don't know per se -- my plan allows 15 oz. of protein, 3 fruit > servings, 4 grain servings, 2T olive oil, unlimited vegetables. That's a lot of protein! Approximately two pounds of turkey breast. >> When you slip up, is it like complete loss of control, or just >> snacking here and there? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > which can easily spiral out of control. He wants me to snack on > protein more. that's sensible... i >Myself, even though I was very mildly overweight since childhood, and >then started gaining at around 27-28, one of the big reasons for >deciding to lose weight then, rather than waiting, was that I felt I >was reaching a "point of no return" with my weight. I'm afraid many people perceive themselves as past the point of no return. I'm not sure there has to be such a point. I began this diet without a specific goal, but just with the idea that even some weight loss would be good for me. I don't know that I ever anticipated losing this much, but it turns out I did. I have to think if it was possible for me that it is for others. Maybe people are daunted by looking at huge numbers of pounds to lose or by impossible-seeming goal weights. Maybe it would help some of them to just think of making a small improvement. If I told myself, "Well, I have to lose 118 lbs.", I might have given up before I started too, but I I didn't ever think that. I just thought I'd try to lose some weight and see where it went. I see many people opting for weight-loss surgery who weigh no more than I did, because they feel they have no other options. I'm troubled by this, but certainly don't know how I'd change anything. >Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? I'm not sure how comparable we are. Mary seems to have a lot of issues with sugar and salt that I do not. I don't know whether I eat more or fewer calories than she, but I don't restrict any types of food. And we all have different metabolisms :-). Chris 262/144/ (145-150) >>Myself, even though I was very mildly overweight since childhood, and >>then started gaining at around 27-28, one of the big reasons for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > than I did, because they feel they have no other options. I'm > troubled by this, but certainly don't know how I'd change anything. I was afraid that somehow, getting fatter would mean that I would face insurmountable difficulties losing and maintaining my weight loss. For all I know, my concern may have been unfounded. But I felt that I was losing mobility and losing control over myself with every pound gained after 210 lbs. Plus, I had a lot of "health issues" due to fat that suddenly popped up. Hypertension, heartburn, and more. >>Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? > > I'm not sure how comparable we are. Mary seems to have a lot of > issues with sugar and salt that I do not. I don't know whether I eat > more or fewer calories than she, but I don't restrict any types of > food. And we all have different metabolisms :-). Well, you both lost a lot of weight, are older than 40, exercise etc. i > >> Mary, what kind of weight training do you do? Is it actually strenuous > >> weight training, where after say 10 reps you cannot continue the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But in the end, your muscles are pretty tired, right? Yes, usually feeling like noodles. Especially today. > > anyone else. I am tired of years of conflicting advice that did > > nothing but confuse and paralyze me. I do write down my food and > > exercise daily. > I see making that stuff public, as an accountability tool rather than > a way to get advice, but surely, you have your reasons. If things don't work out with my food journal this time perhaps I will consider doing that -- but for now, keeping my food journal is accountability enough. > Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? Let's see -- Protein: 5 servings @ roughly 200 = 1000 Fruit: 3 servings @ 60 cals = 180 Grain: 4 servings@ 80 cals = 320 2T Olive Oil = 200 Total: 1700 cals. Plus whatever might be added by vegetables (I eat a lot of them, usually raw or grilled), which I don't have to count at all. Note that I don't always eat all servings (not required to)-- this is what I'm allowed, but not always what I end up eating. > >my plan allows 15 oz. of protein, 3 fruit > > servings, 4 grain servings, 2T olive oil, unlimited vegetables. > That's a lot of protein! Approximately two pounds of turkey breast. Well since a pound of meat is 16 oz., I can actually have a little less than a pound a day. Easy for me to do, too (wish it was 2 lbs!). Lots and lots of chicken and turkey -- I'm allergic to pork, beef and lamb and I'm not that crazy about eggs. And now that it's summer, I make tofu smoothies which I love (in a food processor I combine one carton of soft silken tofu, berries and any other fruit, especially if it's got a bad texture or is a little past its prime -- a good way to avoid wasting fruit that I'd otherwise toss). It makes two big smoothies. Mary > > >> Mary, what kind of weight training do you do? Is it actually strenuous > > >> weight training, where after say 10 reps you cannot continue the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Mary I never thought of using tofu in a smoothie. I'll have to give it a try. I have a couple packages I need to use soon. Beverly > I never thought of using tofu in a smoothie. I'll have to give it a try. I > have a couple packages I need to use soon. I'm interested to know what you think if you try it! I used to put Splenda in them, but lately the fruit is sweet enough. Mary > > I never thought of using tofu in a smoothie. I'll have to give it a try. > I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mary I made one this morning and had half for breakfast and the other half later. I used 1 package of the Silken lite tofu, 1 cup skim milk, 8 strawberries, 6 ice cubes and 1 pack of Splenda. I really liked it and it was very satisfying. I'll have to make them more often. For the WW members it comes out to 4 points but it makes 2 servings. Beverly > "Mary M - Ohio" <sugarfreemry@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > I'm interested to know what you think if you try it! I used to put Splenda [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Beverly Yum, now I think I might have a smoothie for a snack tonight! I'm glad you liked it! Great way to use tofu and get my protein in a different way than my ususal chicken! When I make it, it's 2 servings too -- and for something sweet-tasting, doesn't seem to cause cravings in me -- especially if I sprinkle flax seed on top. Mary >> Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 2T Olive Oil = 200 > Total: 1700 cals. > Plus whatever might be added by vegetables (I eat a lot of them, > usually raw or grilled), which I don't have to count at all. > > Note that I don't always eat all servings (not required to)-- this > is what I'm allowed, but not always what I end up eating. So, at your 40 years of age, and after much dieting, you eat 1700 calories at 158 lbs of weight, or 10.75 calories per pound. Would you consider eating 1500 calories instead? Any thoughts? Could it be that you are not having calorie deficit because, perhaps, you eat too many calories? >> >my plan allows 15 oz. of protein, 3 fruit >> > servings, 4 grain servings, 2T olive oil, unlimited vegetables. >> That's a lot of protein! Approximately two pounds of turkey breast. > > Well since a pound of meat is 16 oz., A pound of meat is 16 oz of meat, but it is only 135 grams of protein (according to www.nutritiondata.com, for turkey breast, no skin, cooked, roasted). The rest is, mostly, water. So, to eat your 15 oz of protein, you would need to eat 1405 grams of turkey breast, which is about 3 pounds of turkey breast!!! Maybe you meant 15 oz of meat and not 15 oz of protein? > I can actually have a little less than a pound a day. Easy for me to > do, too (wish it was 2 lbs!). Lots and lots of chicken and turkey -- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is a little past its prime -- a good way to avoid wasting fruit that > I'd otherwise toss). It makes two big smoothies. It would make sense if you meant 15 oz of meat, sure. Sorry to hear about food allergies, I have some, as well. i > >> Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > it be that you are not having calorie deficit because, perhaps, you > eat too many calories? Gee, are you having reading comprehension problems again or do you just have no respect for anyone's personal wishes? She already stated that she's got a professional helping her and your post just demonstrates *exactly* why she didn't want to post certain information about her diet. Jenn > > >> Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? > > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Jenn But, but ignorant knows everything about everything!!!! Martha >>>>>Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Martha Ah shucks! I forgot that!  Signaturejmk in NC >>>>Just curious, compared to Chris Braun, how many cals do you eat? >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Jenn Yes, Mary has had a lot of success working with her nutritionist and her trainer. She certainly seems to have a plan in place as well. What we eat and how much we can eat for our activity level, age, gender, etc. is extremely individual. Comparing one person of this ng to another may or may not be of any value. Signaturejmk in NC > > Total: 1700 cals. > > Plus whatever might be added by vegetables (I eat a lot of them, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So, at your 40 years of age, and after much dieting, you eat 1700 > calories at 158 lbs of weight, or 10.75 calories per pound. I don't always eat the 1700 -- as I said, 1700 is what I'm allowed but not always what I consume. > Would you consider eating 1500 calories instead? Any thoughts? My thoughts are that if my nutritionist, a Ph.D. from Tufts University (probably the nation's premier school of nutrition), told me to cut down to 1500, I would. So far he has not cut out any food servings but has emphasized the need to stick to my plan faithfully. >Could > it be that you are not having calorie deficit because, perhaps, you > eat too many calories? I retain water weight at amazing amounts. I will post shortly about my interim weigh-in, so you will see the update there! > > Well since a pound of meat is 16 oz., > A pound of meat is 16 oz of meat, but it is only 135 grams of protein > (according to www.nutritiondata.com, for turkey breast, no skin, cooked, roasted). The rest is, mostly, water. > So, to eat your 15 oz of protein, you would need to eat 1405 grams of > turkey breast, which is about 3 pounds of turkey breast!!! > Maybe you meant 15 oz of meat and not 15 oz of protein? Yes, I didn't mean the protein ounces literally -- I was talking about protein servings (meat, fish, eggs, tofu, etc.) of 3 oz. each. Incidentally, I know you drive some people nuts, but I think your questions are motivated from a sincere desire to help, and I see and appreciate that. I'm pretty good at getting beyond people's communication styles to their intent (whether positive or negative) -- and I think your intentions are usually good. Mary > Yes, I didn't mean the protein ounces literally -- I was talking about protein > servings (meat, fish, eggs, tofu, etc.) of 3 oz. each. Incidentally, I know you drive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mary Yep, as long as it isn't me, then lord only knows what his intentions are, but they've never been all that good. Jenn > Yep, as long as it isn't me, then lord only knows what his intentions are, > but they've never been all that good. Well I think like most of the regulars here, he is here to lose weight and to provide support in whatever form that may take. To me, even when his questions irritate me, I don't think he's being malicious -- or if he offers advice that some think is inappropriate (to newcomers or those with health issues, etc.), I take those posts with a grain of salt -- like everything else on the Internet. I think his communication style definitely differs from many others here, but that doesn't really bother me. Often the reasons for personal dislike are couched in excuses such as that his type of person leads innocent newbies astray, but I don't agree with those thoughts (they have been expressed here before; I'm not talking about anything you've said specifically) -- newbies are responsible for their own reactions to what strangers say. I've had this experience before on another newsgroup where a member severely annoyed many other members (and caused many to leave the group; he was much more deliberately confrontational than Igor, and many unsuccessful efforts were made to ban him from the newsboard) -- but for some reason he didn't bug me despite the group's general reaction, and I guess I feel the same toward Igor. Mary >> Yep, as long as it isn't me, then lord only knows what his intentions are, >> but they've never been all that good. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to ban him from the newsboard) -- but for some reason he didn't bug me despite the > group's general reaction, and I guess I feel the same toward Igor. Hm, thanks. It could be that people generally happy tend to be irritated less than people who are generally unhappy, just a thought, a mere speculation. The nature of newsgroups is such that confrontational individuals are to be expected. I go to misc.fitness.weights full knowing that I will be called an WFFID, a lamer, a fucktard, or whatnot, I accept it as the price for actually getting answers to exercise questions that would be invaluable. If someone calls me an idiot, but suggests something valuable about, say, deadlifts, I consider it a good deal. i > > Yep, as long as it isn't me, then lord only knows what his intentions are, > > but they've never been all that good. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mary I've done the usenet thing for about 12 years now and I've seen all kinds. I agree with you on the majority of what you've said, especially that newbies should be able to take care of themselves. My problems with him are personal. He's done everything he could to make this group an unpleasant experience for me and has even had the nerve to try and take credit for my success (I saved that lovely post). He thinks I don't want to be confronted or that I'm in some kind of denial when that is pretty far from the reality of things and those who ACTUALLY know me know it. But then again, what he has decided is reality must be so and the rest of us be damned. I don't appreciate his frequent little digs at me that continue regularly. He's still doing it even though he said he wouldn't. It's just automatic with him. I have no respect for his experience, opinion, or alleged knowledge and really haven't from the beginning when I realized he doesn't actually read much of what anyone else has to say, he just spouts stuff. Because he doesn't read it, he makes assumptions in his head that all of a sudden are "reality" regardless of whether it's truth and those of us who dare disagree or point out the flaws in his perception are then targeted by him or one of his cyberpunk buddies. He will take personal information and twist it to meet his needs and use it as a weapon which is counterproductive to a support group and the main reason why quite a few people aren't comfortable posting personal stuff here anymore. Either way, I'm glad you're finding it helpful. Jenn > I've done the usenet thing for about 12 years now and I've seen all kinds. > I agree with you on the majority of what you've said, especially that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > again, what he has decided is reality must be so and the rest of us be > damned. > I don't appreciate his frequent little digs at me that continue regularly. > He's still doing it even though he said he wouldn't. It's just automatic [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to a support group and the main reason why quite a few people aren't > comfortable posting personal stuff here anymore. I can understand your reaction to Igor and I hadn't seen any personal attacks (I mean literally hadn't seen -- I seem to miss lots of threads, and usually skip over ones that look as though they might be getting "flamey.") > Either way, I'm glad you're finding it helpful. Well I didn't say that I found it helpful, just that it didn't disturb me -- there's a difference there. I guess I should have said that I thought his intentions *toward me* were sincere, rather than making a generalization. Mary M >> Either way, I'm glad you're finding it helpful. > > Well I didn't say that I found it helpful, just that it didn't disturb me -- > there's a difference there. I guess I should have said that I thought his > intentions *toward me* were sincere, rather than making a generalization. Hm, I was hoping that at least something I said to you was helpful... i Just responding is helpful -- supportive words are always helpful, even if specific suggestions might not be. Mary > >> Either way, I'm glad you're finding it helpful. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > i >Well I didn't say that I found it helpful, just that it didn't disturb me -- >there's a difference there. I guess I should have said that I thought his >intentions *toward me* were sincere, rather than making a generalization. This is my general impression of anything Igor has said that's directed to me, as well. Chris 262/144/ (145-150) >>Well I didn't say that I found it helpful, just that it didn't disturb me -- >>there's a difference there. I guess I should have said that I thought his >>intentions *toward me* were sincere, rather than making a generalization. > > This is my general impression of anything Igor has said that's > directed to me, as well. That's nice to hear. i >> > Total: 1700 cals. >> > Plus whatever might be added by vegetables (I eat a lot of them, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > he has not cut out any food servings but has emphasized the need to stick to my plan > faithfully. Oh, I see. Very impressive credentials. I guess, then, it would be worthwhile to stick to it for a while more and see if it is working. But, at some point, a sanity check as to whether something is working, is warranted. >>Could >> it be that you are not having calorie deficit because, perhaps, you >> eat too many calories? > > I retain water weight at amazing amounts. I will post shortly about my interim > weigh-in, so you will see the update there! I guess it must be frustrating, not knowing if you gained water or fat, or just how much water vs. fat. Separating signal from the noise. > Yes, I didn't mean the protein ounces literally -- I was talking > about protein servings (meat, fish, eggs, tofu, etc.) of 3 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people's communication styles to their intent (whether positive or > negative) -- and I think your intentions are usually good. My intent, as far as you are concerned, is to be helpful, that's for sure. I take interest in decision making. How do I know that my decision is based on realism, data, conservative assumptions, when it is time to see that something is not working, etc. Generally speaking, it is my belief that reality based approaches do work in reality, whereas denial based approaches do not work in reality. On the other hand, staying within reality requires annoying questions to be asked and upsetting data to be factored in, that sort of thing. Accidentally, I think that you personally believe in realism, as well, so this should not be interpreted as a swipe at you. So, if, say, I mention considering lowering the calorie amount, it is not that I suggest that I know better than a Tufts educated nutritionist. It means that it is always a good idea to check if a strategy is working, and adjust that when you have enough evidence that it is not. i > > As a matter of decision making, I would actually do bloodwork. Also, I > > would publicly post the food log and exercise log. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > am tired of years of conflicting advice that did nothing but confuse and paralyze me. > I do write down my food and exercise daily. > Also, most people here have a very different weight history than I do, and what works > for them will not necessarily work for me. As my nutritionist explained, a person [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > against me right now -- age, hormones, being female, and the significant efforts of > my body to return to its former weight. This is very well stated Mary and a completely sensible point of view though I doubt it will be understood by all. It really is different for people who spent a lifetime not just chubby or pudgy, but fat, overweight, or obese. The doctor I've been working with on my hormone thing says that the two leading issues for most obese women are History (how long have you been overweight and to what extent) and Hormones (where you are in relation to menopause). Regardless of the method I used to lose weight, she really thinks I'd have the same difficulty in keeping it off because of exactly what your nutritionist said. Unfortunately, dieting has become like religion and politics - some people just know "the truth" and can't get it through their heads that not everyone is like them or like the person next to them. What works for one person can be a complete disaster for the next person. After all of the weight you've lost and the significant percentage you've continued to keep off, you certainly know what is best for you. And I'll bet you didn't even figure it out "accidentally." Jenn > This is very well stated Mary and a completely sensible point of view though > I doubt it will be understood by all. It really is different for people who [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > thinks I'd have the same difficulty in keeping it off because of exactly > what your nutritionist said. And I certainly didn't mean to sound snotty or "terminally unique" (an Overeaters Anonymous phrase) but the frustrations of a lifetime struggling with weight can just get to me sometimes. >> Unfortunately, dieting has become like religion and politics - some people > just know "the truth" and can't get it through their heads that not everyone > is like them or like the person next to them. What works for one person can > be a complete disaster for the next person. There is another great OA saying (I haven't gone in many years but I still remember what I was taught): "For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible. For those who do understand, no explanation is necessary." > After all of the weight you've lost and the significant percentage you've > continued to keep off, you certainly know what is best for you. And I'll > bet you didn't even figure it out "accidentally." No, it took 22 years of trying, and a team of experts! But I say, whatever it takes! And my stats in the original post are from a starting weight of 228, not my true starting weight of 325 -- can you imagine the fat percentage then! So I have come a long way. Thanks for your nice post, Jenn. Mary > > This is very well stated Mary and a completely sensible point of view though > > I doubt it will be understood by all. It really is different for people who [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anonymous phrase) but the frustrations of a lifetime struggling with weight can just > get to me sometimes. I completely understand where you are coming from. > >> Unfortunately, dieting has become like religion and politics - some people > > just know "the truth" and can't get it through their heads that not everyone [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > what I was taught): "For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible. For > those who do understand, no explanation is necessary." Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Most of the time, trying to explain is like teaching a pig to sing... > > After all of the weight you've lost and the significant percentage you've > > continued to keep off, you certainly know what is best for you. And I'll [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > starting weight of 325 -- can you imagine the fat percentage then! So I have come a > long way. Thanks for your nice post, Jenn. Having been 315 lbs at my heaviest, I can completely imagine what you mean. We're in this together! It's always a little easier for me when I read your stuff. :) Jenn > Also, most people here have a very different weight history than I do, and what works > for them will not necessarily work for me. As my nutritionist explained, a person > like you and others who have gained weight in adulthood can lose it very easily with > moderate discipline -- he said it really doesn't take that much. yes, I've read that fat cells are created most during adolescence (hyperplastic growth). After that, the existing fat cells expand like a balloon to store fat (hypertrophic), up to a limit, and then more fat cells are created. http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/adipose/adipose.html > On the other hand, > someone who has been overweight their entire lives (and who has exceeded 300 lbs.) > has a much tougher road and it's almost unheard of for us to reach goal and stay > there because of the many issues involved. Also, he said many factors are working > against me right now -- age, hormones, being female, and the significant efforts of > my body to return to its former weight. Yes. This is why I know my relative ease of loss so far doesn't apply to everyone, especially those who got heavy early in life and/or had a lot more to lose. Heywood 232/192/182 > yes, I've read that fat cells are created most during adolescence > (hyperplastic growth). After that, the existing fat cells expand like > a balloon to store fat (hypertrophic), up to a limit, and then more > fat cells are created. > > http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/adipose/adipose.html Interesting -- I'll have to take a look at that link. > > On the other hand, > > someone who has been overweight their entire lives (and who has exceeded 300 lbs.) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to everyone, especially those who got heavy early in life and/or had a > lot more to lose. Well we each have our own challenges -- and as a matter of fact, I know I'm handling my weight loss efforts with a lot more sensibility than friends of mine who are for the first time in their lives discovering that they can't eat whatever they want in unlimited quantities -- I have a lot easier time sticking to a food plan since I've been doing it so long in one way or another! You are doing great with your efforts. Mary > Well we each have our own challenges -- and as a matter of fact, I > know I'm handling my weight loss efforts with a lot more sensibility [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I've been doing it so long in one way or another! You are doing > great with your efforts. You sound like a rational person, looking for solutions rater than excuses. This tips the scale in your favor... i I have a heretical thought. Are you sure that your chosen goal weight of 140 is a good goal weight. Was there a solid decision making process behind it? Would you be happier if you tried to maintain around your current weight? Would you think that you would be healthier at 140? The main reason for my question is rather unscientific, that you look quite wonderful on your recent pictures, and certainly not like a person with too much fat on her body. You also strength train a lot, which is not well evident beneath the clothes, but possibly you are rather muscular. Could it be that in fact you are not particularly fat as of right now, given your age, build, and history? If you had put in a lot of thought in it, considered your build, bodyfat percentage, health issues, etc etc, all the power to you in reaching your goal. Sometimes though, people pick target weight pretty arbitrarily. Just hoped to raise this question, try to consider it privately, no need to respond if you do not feel comfortable. i Not sure where you get the 140 -- my goal weight is 148 (because I looked and felt great at that weight) -- the goal used to be 145, but I've upped it a little. In fact my doctor said he would be happy with a range of 150-155, but I would prefer a range of 148-155. Or more specifically, a body fat percentage of 20-22%. I am also wondering what would happen to my weight if I did get the three skin-removal surgeries that I have considered -- that would take off not only more pounds, but would better reveal my muscular body which is not very visible right now except in my neck. I appreciate your heretical thoughts. :-) Mary > I have a heretical thought. Are you sure that your chosen goal weight > of 140 is a good goal weight. Was there a solid decision making [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > i > Not sure where you get the 140 -- my goal weight is 148 (because I looked and felt > great at that weight) -- the goal used to be 145, but I've upped it a little. In fact [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would better reveal my muscular body which is not very visible right now except in my > neck. I appreciate your heretical thoughts. :-) Sorry about the 140 number. I would consider your skin as an extra weight. So, say you have X pounds of extra skin, and would like to be Y pounds of weight if the skin magically disappeared and flew away to Mars. Then, it would be pretty sane to decide that your ideal weight is X+Y, since the skin is not flying to Mars. It's just deadweight. As someone who is still not sure what his target weight should be, long term, I sympathize with the difficulty of figuring it out. Some days I think that I should be around 157, some days, around 167. It is doubtful that there is a good method of figuring it out. According to Jenny in alt.support.diet.low-carb, the ideal weight is the weight at which one starts to have great difficulties losing. She further says that if one tried to lose beyond that, then powerful self protection mechanisms start that are not easily stopped afterwards. Whether she is right or not, is not clear, but there is something sensible about it. This method may be too fuzzy for people to use practically. After reaching 178 lbs, I hit a virtual wall and have great difficulty losing. I know theoretically that I would lose on lower calorie diet, fir sure, but ticking to it is quite difficult. I decided not to force the issue to hard and go very slowly, and accept a possible failure to lose more weight if further losing comes at a cost too high. i 223/172/180 >According to >Jenny in alt.support.diet.low-carb, the ideal weight is the weight at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is right or not, is not clear, but there is something sensible about >it. This method may be too fuzzy for people to use practically. I don't think that this method would work for me. I lost the last 5 pounds pretty easily, and assume I could lose a bit more without a big struggle (though I don't know this, of course). But I don't want to. At this point, I want to maintain/rebuild strength, and I know I can do that better if I do not lose any more weight, and if I increase my calorie consumption as much as I can without exceeding my target range. There's also the whole setpoint theory, which says that it's particularly difficult to diet below a weight that you previously maintained for a long time. That might be a reason for weightloss becoming more difficult, but wouldn't be an indication that the ideal weight had been reached. I'm not sure I believe in this theory, though. I once -- 6 or 7 years ago -- dieted down from around 240 to around 200 and absolutely couldn't (I thought) get any lower. But I wasn't counting calories, and I think because I was getting a lot of exercise I was gradually allowing myself to eat more and more -- albeit healthy food -- so that I no longer had a calorie deficit. This time around I went right past that point with no particular difficulty. On the other hand, my current weight is about what I weighed all through college, and perhaps I'd stall here if I tried to go lower. But I'm not planning to try :-). Chris 262/144/ (145-150) > At my best (maybe October or November visit?) I had been down to 20.2% body fat and > 150 lbs. on his scale. Yesterday I was 160 and 26.7% body fat. I cannot believe I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > and my most recent one to show myself that I truly have made progress -- I don't want > to get discouraged. Hopefully you won't get discouraged after you've done so well for so long! You're doing everything possible it seems to keep things going in the right direction so a temporary setback should be seen as just that - temporary. I definitely can identify with you - bringing down the bf% is a bitch, much harder than just losing pounds in my personal experience. Another way you can make yourself feel better is to look at your pictures again. You are very beautiful and you've worked very hard to get that way. Jenn > Hopefully you won't get discouraged after you've done so well for so long! > You're doing everything possible it seems to keep things going in the right [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Another way you can make yourself feel better is to look at your pictures > again. You are very beautiful and you've worked very hard to get that way. Thank you, Jenn -- I do think this is temporary -- heck, yesterday I weighed 157.5 and today I was 154 -- so I think Sunday's "Salt-Fest" had something to do with weighing 160 at my doctor's (which would be 158 at home). I'm just going to keep plugging away at eating right and exercising -- thanks for your support and nice words -- I truly appreciate it. Mary >>Hopefully you won't get discouraged after you've done so well for so long! >>You're doing everything possible it seems to keep things going in the right [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mary Yeah, I did pretty well over the weekend -- except for salt. We had brats and turkey italian sausage. I had the sausage and some cole slaw, etc. Calorie wise I did great. Salt-wise, I was off the charts. I am down 1.5 pounds from yesterday... Signaturejmk in NC > Yeah, I did pretty well over the weekend -- except for salt. We had > brats and turkey italian sausage. I had the sausage and some cole slaw, > etc. Calorie wise I did great. Salt-wise, I was off the charts. I am > down 1.5 pounds from yesterday... Yes, the saving grace of sodium weight gain is that you can literally flush it out pretty quickly with enough water intake! :-) Mary > Hi everyone -- > > Thanks so much to everyone who made such nice comments on the photos I posted > yesterday. I really needed to get that support after seeing the results of my last > nutritionist's visit. Mary, I know that you are doing great and it sounds like you are on track with your walking and food journal. I really meant it when I said how much I enjoyed our pedometer challenge and I really do think that another one in the future would be great. It certainly inspired me to do that little bit more each day. You really are making good progress from a Big Picture perspective. Hang in there, it will all come together for you! Signaturejmk in NC > I know that you are doing great and it sounds like you are on track with > your walking and food journal. I really meant it when I said how much I > enjoyed our pedometer challenge and I really do think that another one > in the future would be great. It certainly inspired me to do that > little bit more each day. You really are making good progress from a > Big Picture perspective. Hang in there, it will all come together for you! Thanks a lot, jmk -- just let the group know when you'd like to do another challenge (if you haven't seen one posted yet) -- I would definitely join in! Thanks for your post. Mary |
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