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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / July 2004Atkins+Low Carb equals Death
Preface: To those who have commented on my occassional grammar mistakes. This is part of my social crusades. Not an English or College Term Paper. I am not being paid, I am not selling anything. And I am far more concerned with saving lives, then checking grammar. STEVE BAYT (Parma/Brook Park, Ohio) JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY Complete Guide For Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease copyright1993 by Peter O. Kwiterwovich Jr. MD starts tonight's article on Atkins Related Death Syndrome(ARDS): "In one-third of all cases the first sign of coronary heart disease is sudden, unexpected death. The victims are completely unaware of the blockages in their coronary arteries until it is too late." Tonight's pre-Kathryn Morris typed article uses information from a place most newbie researchers, via THE NET, have probably not visited. It's called a Library where there are shelves of books not about Epidemic Diets like Atkins but books by hospitals, universities, health organizations which have little financial interest but instead offer real information. For those who have never been in a library there are things that are like website addresses but are called Library call numbers which have a code called THE DEWEY DECIMAL SYSTEM. The John Hopkins book's call number is NF616.123. Those who have been brainwashed by Atkins marketing or have a potential loved one doomed to have an Atkins Related Heart Attack (ARHA) should spend an afternoon researching the fatal consequences of following The Atkins Death Sentence. Consumer Reports June 2002 page 30 foreshadows ARDS " For nearly 30 years, the nutrition establishment has denounced the diet promulgated by Dr. Robert C. Atkins for it's unsound, high-fat, ultra low carbohydrate regimen. As recently as last year an expert panel of nutritionist convened by the American Heart Association condemned it a ineffective and very possibly a health hazard." I don't really care about one-line brain dead responding to these article, for when Atkins loved ones and their possible ARDS fatalities go to doctors, those doctors will confirm everything in my articles. I am more interested in the response of doctors in the real world-not brain dead Internet responders. The Mayo Clinics "The Ultimate guide to heart health by Bernard J. Gersh second edition copyright 200 call number 616. 12 provide one of dozens of quotes from library medical journal books. Page 87: "Narrowing of the arteries are almost always caused by genetics or because of eating a high fat diet with high cholesterol." Page 93 warns potential ARDS fatalities "60 of heart attack victims die within the first hour after the onset of symptoms." Investigations reveal, page 94 "Indecision of whether to call 911 accounts for 62% of all deaths. Transportation to ER 9%, 29% delays in hospitals." It is vital that potential ARDSers' inform anyone they associate with, that they are engaging in a certain fatal death style. For at events where aerobic activity someone should have a cell phone to call 911 when the Atkins person has their inevitable heart attack. If the event where an Atkins person is in a place where a paramedic will not be able to arrive within the hour death frame, someone should be invited to apply CPR. It would also be advised that an Atkins person put on their drivers license a notice to doctors they are on Atkins. For if the ARHA victim survives, the standard length of hospitalization according to THE CLEVELAND CLININC HEART BOOK c.2000 by Eric J. Topol MD call number 616.12 will be about 10 days. For stroke could occur if the hour death frame was near an end. The ARHA could be in a coma or unconscious for days and there will be no way for a doctor to know of the extreme carbohydrate deficiency. Doctors will easily tell your 300 plus cholesterol but carbs simply leave your body when not needed-due to their high fiber content. THE IDIOTS GUIDE TO TOTAL NUTRITION, Joy Bauer MS. RD, Chapter 2 tries to explain that Carbohydrates don't turn into fat. According the 2004 WORLD ALMANAC vital statistic section 920,000 people died in 2001 due to Coronary Arterial Disease (CAD) causes. CLINIC page 88 lists the causes of CAD's " 50% High Blood Cholesterol, 40% Obesity, 25% Smoking, 20% High Blood Pressure and 60-80% Sedentary Life Style." Chapters 11 and 12 of HOPKINS explains how Atkins causes all of the above conditions except smoking-which will kill you long before CAD or ARHA. To highlight- Page 71 "Restricting your dietary fat may help lower your blood pressure as well as blood cholesterol." Page 176 "Fiber in founding certain kinds of carbohydrates some fibers of this type are water soluble and may help lower your blood cholesterol if taken in conjunction with a low-saturated fat, low-cholesterol diet." One could simplify the stats and claim ARDS already kills about 700,000 Americans annually. But, there wasn't an official AIDS death toll statistic until 1985 when it was separated from other STD's. With the recent mass marketing ARDS will probably get its own death statistic- when articles start appearing in early 2005 about the massive increase in CAD. CLINIC page 247 and 29 have in bold big fonts "USE COMPLEX CARBOHYDRATES FOR ENERGY. LIMIT DIETARY CHOLESTEROL." All CLINIC, HOPKINS, MAYO, and UNDERSTANING OBESITY by Dr. Lance Levy c.2000 Recommended by Nutrition Research Center part of Baylor College Of Medicine call number 616.398 pages 114-116-along with shelves of other books describe the hundreds of health benefits of a high complex carbohydrate, low saturated fat and cholesterol diet. Yet, for 35 years no-one other than those part of The Atkins Center and those financially connected to Atkins have ever stated anything but fatal consequences of Atkins. His own site and most products with the Atkins scarlet A does not have the phrase "Consult your physician before beginning this or any exercise program." Probably because the American Medical Association and virtually all state medical license boards have warned doctors about Atkins. There is hope for anyone who doesn't want to die of ARDS. Those who started about 5 months ago when the mass marketing haven't done any permanent damage. For CAD takes about 2-4 years to reach a point of Atkins Related Heart Attack Risk. And CLINIC page 28 offers hope "Managing he amount and type of dietary fat you eat is a key strategy in lowering blood cholesterol levels and reducing CAD risks." Page 29 describes about reverse stenosis-where a low fat diet; high carb diet can clear arteries (clogged by Atkins death styles.) THE MAYO CLINIC page 188 Chapter 9 offers hope also "Increase your carbohydrate intake to 60% or more of your total calories by emphasizing complex carbohydrates" Being a vegetarian since August 7, 1977 my favorite quote obtained from shelves of books describing the fatal consequences, supporting my ARDS jargon came from MAYO CLINIC's page 96: "Vegetarian diets can be lower in total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol which can lower the risk of obesity, coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and some form of caner." THE PCRM probably will engrave that somewhere. For those who are on ATKINS who might have trouble walking to a library, you can access health information at www.americanheart.org or www.clevelandclinic.org/heartcenter Or for those who prefer human contact call the Cleveland Clinic Preventive Cardiology Rehabilitation Program at (216) 444-9353. Loved ones of a possible ARHA sufferer should also find out what is in store. THE MAYO CLINIC book has actual photos (of dead people) of arteries clogged subjected to Atkins death style diets. Those Jil Hennessy, Marg Helgenberger, William Peterson fans could use them as a CJ, CSI warm-up. Please call, contact or visit a library-ask for where the NF616 section is. For Consumer Reports June 2002 page 26 et seq. claims the best way to safely lose weight and improve health is by a local hospital or university, WEIGHT WATCHERS or JENNY CRAIG by reducing fat and calories, not even mentioning low carb. Atkins people might also get psychological counseling for being able to be brainwashed so easily by marketing. But, that is for my next article tentatively set sometime between July 14 and July 15 at 8 p.m. And it's almost time for Cold Case tonight going back to 1973 that would have been about the time the first wave of Atkins Related Deaths occurred. Maybe I'll cover my library research after Kathryn Morris heads towards an Emmy and Atkins heads towards a potential tragedy averted by USENET newsgroups. Love Means Never Having To Say. You're Sorry. STEVE BAYT you are a moron, spewing non facts and your gay opinion. I have been eating NO CARB - yes that is right (no fruit, no veggie - ONLY MEAT) for over a year straight. Not only did I lose 130 pounds but I also CURED my diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, gall bladder attacks and eradicated tumors on my ovaries, regulated my period and got off my antidepressants. YOU CAN LIVE WITHOUT CARB!! You are a troll and a fool, maybe if you would lay off the sugar you could think clearer. Some undertaker will soon make a wad of money from your coronary death!!!! Undertakers love brainwashed idiots like yourself, and the Atkins Corp will be giving them lots of business !!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~ >you are a moron, spewing non facts and your gay opinion. I have been eating NO >CARB - yes that is right (no fruit, no veggie - ONLY MEAT) for over a year [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >WITHOUT CARB!! You are a troll and a fool, maybe if you would lay off the sugar >you could think clearer. yawn, are you stupid. You don't get coronary problems from fat. You get coronary problems from fat MIXED with sugar. Open a book and read instead of regurgitating old information that the food pyramid and your grade school nurse told you. Heart attacks have nothing to do with fat and everything to do with sugar and IRON. Damn, people will believe anything they are told. Thank god I am not one of those people. I too have had amazing help since I began low carbing 2 years ago. I don't even get the flu. > yawn, are you stupid. You don't get coronary problems from fat. You > get coronary problems from fat MIXED with sugar. Open a book and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > people. I too have had amazing help since I began low carbing 2 > years ago. I don't even get the flu. I also have not had a single cold since I started dieting (lower carb, but not as low). i >> yawn, are you stupid. You don't get coronary problems from fat. You >> get coronary problems from fat MIXED with sugar. Open a book and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >i And I have been exceptionally healthy on a low calorie diet. No sample of one proves anything. Perhaps the most reasonable conclusion is that people who focus on a healthy lifestyle are more likely to avoid illness :-). Chris 262/144/ (145-150) >>> yawn, are you stupid. You don't get coronary problems from fat. You >>> get coronary problems from fat MIXED with sugar. Open a book and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > is that people who focus on a healthy lifestyle are more likely to > avoid illness :-). I was not actually trying to make a point, just mentioned something rather amusing to me. Amazing that I have not yet had a cold. I am not really "low carbing", I eat at least 150 carbs per day. i > Chris > 262/144/ (145-150) >>>> yawn, are you stupid. You don't get coronary problems from fat. You >>>> get coronary problems from fat MIXED with sugar. Open a book and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >rather amusing to me. Amazing that I have not yet had a cold. I am not >really "low carbing", I eat at least 150 carbs per day. I know -- but the OP was obviously trying to make a point. Chris ARDS stands for Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome. > Preface: To those who have commented on my occassional grammar > mistakes. This is part of my social crusades. Not an English or [quoted text clipped - 170 lines] > > STEVE BAYT Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the protein causes an acidic condition in the body which promotes calcium loss among other things. EVen if people survive the diet they usually rebound and gain the weight back. The use of complex carbohydrates in the diet in a balanced way (as in the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a lower fasting insulin level without the risks. > Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health > concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a lower > fasting insulin level without the risks. What? You've apparently never read the Atkins book, have you? I've been following Atkins now for almost two years, and I have a much lower fasting glucose level, better triglycerides, higher HDL, and better TC/HDL ratio. There is no evidence whatsoever that protein causes calcium loss. As per the following link, here's some research (note that the owner of the link owns all copyrights): http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/results.asp?catid=204 Putting Meat on Our Bones (Press Release) Added on: 1/30/2004 Hits: 116 From the USDA Agricultural Research Service and the Journal of Nutrition, 2003: A team of researchers compared the effects of several weeks a controlled high and low meat diets on calcium retention and bone mass in 15 healthy postmenopausal women for 8 weeks. They noted that while the high meat intake group had higher renal acid secretion at the onset of the diet, it fell signficantly with time. At the end of the study, the researchers noted that there was no difference in bone mass or calcium retention among the two groups. They concluded that high meat diets do not reduce calcium retention or bone mass. Controlled High Meat Diets Do Not Affect Calcium Retention or Indices of Bone Status in Healthy Postmenopausal Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 1/30/2004 Hits: 94 From the USDA Agricultural Research Service and the Journal of Nutrition, 2003: A team of researchers compared the effects of several weeks a controlled high and low meat diets on calcium retention and bone mass in 15 healthy postmenopausal women for 8 weeks. They noted that while the high meat intake group had higher renal acid secretion at the onset of the diet, it fell signficantly with time. At the end of the study, the researchers noted that there was no difference in bone mass or calcium retention among the two groups. They concluded that high meat diets do not reduce calcium retention or bone mass. Protein Intake: Effects on Bone Mineral Density and the Rate of Bone Loss in Elderly Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 8/22/2003 Hits: 250 From Creighton University and the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2003: A team of researchers from the Bone Metabolism Unit of the Osteoporosis Research Center studied the relationship between protein intake and the bone densities in postmenopausal elderly women for 3 years. They found that bone mineral density was significantly higher among women who scored in the highest quartiles of protein intake when they also took in 480 mg/d of calcium. Controlled High Meat Diets Do Not Affect Calcium Retention or Indices of Bone Status in Healthy Postmenopausal Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 8/22/2003 Hits: 147 From the USDA's Agricultural Research Service, the Grand Forks Human Nutrition Research Center, and the Journal of Nutrition 2003: A team of USDA researchers placed 15 healthy postmenopausal women on two diets for 8 weeks each. The first diet was high in meat (about 10.5 ounces per day) and the second was much lower (1.5 ounces per day). Their calcium, sodium, and caffiene intakes were controlled for the 16 weeks of the study. The researchers found that the high meat diet did not increase urinary calcium loss or affect indicators of bone metabolism, as is widely believed in medical circles. The researchers concluded that calcium retention is not reduced when eating a high protein diet from meat. New Data on Dietary Protein and Bone (Press Release) Added on: 8/22/2003 Hits: 148 From the USDA's Agricultural Research Service and the Grand Forks Human Nutrition Research Center, 2003: A team of USDA researchers placed 15 healthy postmenopausal women on two diets for 8 weeks each. The first diet was high in meat (about 10.5 ounces per day) and the second was much lower (1.5 ounces per day). Their calcium, sodium, and caffiene intakes were controlled for the 16 weeks of the study. The researchers found that the high meat diet did not increase urinary calcium loss or affect indicators of bone metabolism, as is widely believed in medical circles. The researchers concluded that calcium retention is not reduced when eating a high protein diet from meat. Study Analyzes Calcium, Protein and Healthy Bones (Magazine Article) Added on: 9/24/2002 Hits: 408 From Tufts University and the USDA, 2002: This study found that increasing protein intake had a favorable effect on bone density in elderly subjects supplemented with calcium and vitamin D. Protein Saves Bone in Elders (Magazine Article) Added on: 9/24/2002 Hits: 293 From Harvard University and the USDA, 2001: This team of researchers from Harvard and other universities found that 70 to 90 year-old men and women with the highest protein intakes lost significantly less bone over a four-year period than those who consumed half as much or less. Animal protein, as well as overall protein intake, was associated with preserving bone. The study, known as the Framingham Osteoporosis Study, was conducted at the USDA Human Nutrition Research Center. Effect of Protein Intake on Bone Mineralization during Weight Loss: A 6-Month Trial (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/16/2002 Hits: 317 From The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University in Denmark and the journal Obesity Research, 2002: These researchers studied two groups with the same dietary fat intake but with varying degrees of protein intake. One group was placed on a low protein diet while the second group was placed on a high protein diet for 6 months. The group on the high protein diet lost more weight than did the low protein dieters. While the researchers found that the bone mineralization content decreased in both groups, they found that the loss was greater in the low protein group than in the high protein group. They concluded that body fat loss was the major reason for the loss and state, "...we found no adverse effects of 6 months of high-protein intake on bone mineralization." Bone Mineral Density and Dietary Patterns in Older Adults: The Framingham Osteoporosis Study (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/11/2002 Hits: 313 From Harvard University and The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2002: This group of researchers, including professors from Harvard, reported their findings from the long-term Framingham Osteoporosis Study. In this article, they report that the higher the candy intake, the lower the bone density in women and men. Effect of Dietary Protein on Bone Loss in Elderly Men and Women: The Framingham Osteoporosis Study (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/11/2002 Hits: 319 From Harvard University and the Journal of Bone and Mineral Research, 2001: This team of researchers from Harvard and other universities found that 70 to 90 year-old men and women with the highest protein intakes lost significantly less bone over a four-year period than those who consumed half as much or less. Animal protein, as well as overall protein intake, was associated with preserving bone. The study, known as the Framingham Osteoporosis Study, was conducted at the USDA Human Nutrition Research Center. (This link goes to the home page of the journal. Click on the picture of the current journal. Select the year 2000 and the month of December. Scroll down to page 2504 and click on the abstract button for the article.) Calcium Intake Influences The Association of Protein Intake With Rates of Bone Loss in Elderly Men and Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 251 From Tufts University and The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2002: This study found that increasing protein intake had a favorable effect on bone density in elderly subjects supplemented with calcium and vitamin D. Factors Associated With Calcium Absorption Efficiency in Pre- and Perimenopausal Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 282 From The University of Pittsburgh and the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2000: These researchers found that dietary fat intake had a positive affect on the rate of calcium absorption in pre-menopausal and perimenopausal women. Purdue Research Shows Omega 3s Benefit Bones (Press Release) Added on: 7/9/2002 Hits: 285 From Purdue University News, 1997: Past research showed that eating more omega-3 fatty acids could decrease coronary heart disease risk and might decrease chances of getting certain cancers, but this research is the first to suggest that omega-3s improve bone growth. The researchers stress that everyone, especially young children should eat a variety of fats to protect bone growth.  SignatureBob in CT Remove ".x" to reply >What? You've apparently never read the Atkins book, have you? I've been >following Atkins now for almost two years, and I have a much lower fasting >glucose level, better triglycerides, higher HDL, and better TC/HDL ratio. >There is no evidence whatsoever that protein causes calcium loss. As per >the following link, here's some research (note that the owner of the link >owns all copyrights): Why would you want to read a book based on a massive scam, and worse yet, give your money to the scammers? It's a FAD. (let me repeat) IT'S A FAD. A fad based on a scam. They want your money ! Have you been watching the news lately? There have been several reports saying just how bad this Atkins diet really is. However, if you are that gullible, I'll sell you an island that I own, and will give you a real good deal.... The Atkins Corp. is one of the biggest scams in history, and they are making many people sick. The key to health is eating a BALANCED diet. The key to weight loss is leaving the table, once you've eaten a NORMAL SIZED meal (based on your body type). Don't forget to exercise too, and that dont mean you need to beat the crap out of yourself at a gym. Walking, mowing the lawn, playing some football, etc. That's exercise. (Sorry, pushing bottons on a tv remote is NOT exercise). See, that was simple and easy to understand. You dont need a book, just follow these easy guidelines. >>What? You've apparently never read the Atkins book, have you? I've been >>following Atkins now for almost two years, and I have a much lower fasting [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Have you been watching the news lately? There have been several > reports saying just how bad this Atkins diet really is. Try not getting your information from TV "news", it helps to actually understand what is going on. i >See, that was simple and easy to understand. You dont need a book, >just follow these easy guidelines. simple and easy doesn't equal correct. Yes, for the morons out there and that is most of the world unfortunately - the concept that FAT MAKES YOU FAT is really simple and easy. Too bad it is the biggest lie we have ever been told. Follow that lie up with we need carbs to have energy and red meat gives you high cholesterol.... It is hard to understand why and how low carb diet works. They dont work because they are a fad. They work because the only thing that can give you high cholesterol and make you fat is INSULIN. Insulin is stimulated by one thing: SUGAR. Carbohydrate breaks down into one thing: SUGAR. Hard and convoluted and difficult to comprehend for people like you, so you call it a fad because you cant understand it. But it is medical fact, and until you understand it plan on struggling with your weight and your health. But dont come on here and spew old brainwashed concepts until you understand what you are talking about. > simple and easy doesn't equal correct. Yes, for the morons out there and that > is most of the world unfortunately - the concept that FAT MAKES YOU FAT is > really simple and easy. Fat makes you fat may be simple and easy, just as Carbs make you fat is simple and easy, yet neither one becomes true simply because you support the one you like. Excess energy makes you fat, simple, easy, correct and proven. :: Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health :: concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the :: protein causes an acidic condition in the body which promotes calcium :: loss among other things. EVen if people survive the diet they :: usually rebound and gain the weight back. What a statement. You should run and hide now. :: The use of complex carbohydrates in the diet in a balanced way (as in :: the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a :: lower fasting insulin level without the risks. Nonsense, complete and utter. "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote in news:2liadiFcuek8U1@uni- berlin.de: >:: Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health >:: concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Nonsense, complete and utter. Cites please! r SignatureNothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes. >:: Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health >:: concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the >:: protein causes an acidic condition in the body which promotes calcium >:: loss among other things. EVen if people survive the diet they >:: usually rebound and gain the weight back. >What a statement. You should run and hide now. Why so? The Atkins diet, many believe, has associated health concerns including hyperlipidemia and the adverse effects of ketosis. Commercial (book) diets like Atkins have horrible failure rates and the majority who fail on these diets rebound weight to a higher level. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Why so? The Atkins diet, many believe, has associated health concerns >including hyperlipidemia and the adverse effects of ketosis. >Commercial (book) diets like Atkins have horrible failure rates and >the majority who fail on these diets rebound weight to a higher level WHAT A LOAD. there are no adverse effects of ketosis. Ketones are the original source you body, heart and brain wants and needs to run on - WE HUMAN MORONS made glucose the new fuel. That is why we are sick, fat, lethargic and stupid. The only health risks associated with low carb dieting are the idiots that dont read and eve know what they are doing - like they eat the ketchup on their protein wrapped burger, etc etc. Every EVERY every diet book has horrible failure weights and 75% or higher regain the weight. DUH. This isn't just Atkins. Even gastric bypass patients gain the weight back. Staying thin is a constant struggle, you can't let up. Most people do the diet wrong, cheat, give up, go back to eating crap...etc etc. The diet didnt fail, they did. Most diets help you lose weight but low carb is the only diet (argue with me if you want but when you are dying of cancer - another disease you CANNOT get while low carb eating, you can think of this post) that cures diseases and makes you unbelievably healthy, happy and sane. Mu wrote: > >Why so? The Atkins diet, many believe, has associated health > >concerns including hyperlipidemia and the adverse effects of > >ketosis. > >Commercial (book) diets like Atkins have horrible failure rates and > >the majority who fail on these diets rebound weight to a higher > >level Kittenlove99 wrote: > WHAT A LOAD. there are no adverse effects of ketosis. Ketones are > the original source you body, heart and brain wants and needs to run [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > unbelievably healthy, > happy and sane. Could you please stop trying to help? Low carb doesn't prevent people from getting cancer, nor does it cure diseases or guarantee happiness. It can be a valuable tool for controlling diabetes - I've been using it for over 5 years and it's been a boon for diabetes management - but it doesn't cure anything. I'm not immune from cancer, and low carbing didn't prevent my clinical depression either. Low carb is a dietary approach. It's not a religion. Relax a bit. Carmen >Could you please stop trying to help? Low carb doesn't prevent people >from getting cancer, nor does it cure diseases or guarantee happiness. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Carmen actually Carmen, you are wrong. It cures many diseases. Maybe you need to read up a bit on the diet you have chosen. As far as your clinical depression, how many grams of carb do you eat a day? I would guess you are not under 10g a day. Maybe you should try that before you state it doesnt work. Further, I was bleeding for months straight and after 1 month of not eating carb I have had normal periods since. Doesnt cure anything? How about cured my gallbladder problems, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, pcos, depression.... hmmmm and everyone else I have ever put on my diet. As far as cancer is concerned, I would glad to share the info with you if you want to email me privately. Cancer is not caused by sugar but it cant live without it. PERIOD. Everyone is sick with diseases directly correlated with the amount of carb this society consumes, I mean DAMN - people cant even get through one day without a piece of fruit. It is sickening how many carbs people eat and they keep getting fatter and sicker. You explain it if sugar isnt the culprit! Just all of a sudden every 50 year old man is dying of a heart attack and every woman has polycystic ovarian syndrome????? THINK. READ. RESEARCH. There is a correlation. And for you non low carbers - get over your brain washing that you need carbs to live, blah blah blah - who told you this? The same doctors that would go out of business if you werent sick. THINK. > hmmmm and everyone else I have ever put on my diet. As far as cancer > is concerned, I would glad to share the info with you if you want to > email me privately. Cancer is not caused by sugar but it cant live > without it. PERIOD. Everyone is sick with diseases directly Kitten, I would like to see some evidence for it other than assertions in a usenet post. I have a very good personal reason to ask. i Hi, On 14-Jul-2004, Ignoramus15378 <ignoramus15378@NOSPAM.15378.invalid> wrote: > > hmmmm and everyone else I have ever put on my diet. As far as > > cancer is concerned, I would glad to share the info with you if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > assertions in a usenet post. I have a very good personal reason to > ask. Couple of quick points. First, Google Vanessa's posts. Enough said, you're smart enough to see why I suggest that. Second, I'm sorry as hell that you have reason to be making an enquiry down this particular path. Third, since you've no doubt seen the posts about what my DH is going through I can understand why you might want to grasp at anything, no matter how nonsensical it may be. Use your brain Igor, not your emotions where cancer is concerned. Take care, Carmen > Hi, > On 14-Jul-2004, Ignoramus15378 <ignoramus15378@NOSPAM.15378.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > anything, no matter how nonsensical it may be. Use your brain Igor, > not your emotions where cancer is concerned. Thanks. I thought that she might have some useful reference. I am always trying to use brain and not emotions, but thanks, yes, with cancer, it is hard to avoid grasping at all straws. I have seen references to high blood sugars increasing the rate of growth of cancer tumors. It is not far fetched to think that somehow having low blood sugars, could have a reverse effect, although, obviously, there could be reasons why that would not be the case. i Hi, On 14-Jul-2004, Ignoramus15378 <ignoramus15378@NOSPAM.15378.invalid> wrote: > > Second, I'm sorry as hell that you have reason to be making an > > enquiry down this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > anything, no matter how nonsensical it may be. Use your brain > > Igor, not your emotions where cancer is concerned. > I am always trying to use brain and not emotions, but thanks, yes, > with cancer, it is hard to avoid grasping at all straws. I understand all too well. It damn well isn't fair. Cancer can happen despite "living right". It hits children - people who haven't even had a chance to screw up yet. Why? Because one little cell screws up and replicates itself the wrong way, then the mistake stays uncorrected and all hell breaks loose. The mutant cells grow too quickly, don't die when they're supposed to and take all the resources they can get. > I have seen references to high blood sugars increasing the rate of > growth of cancer tumors. It is not far fetched to think that somehow > having low blood sugars, could have a reverse effect, although, > obviously, there could be reasons why that would not be the case. Ah, if only it were that easy. Think about it. In order to drive blood sugar so low that a tumor would starve you'd have to get it so low you'd starve the brain first. I have seen some therapies being floated that use tumors' prediliction for glucose against them though. If glucose is "tagged" with radioactive material it could deliver a targeted dose to the tumor. Breast cancer is the specific cancer being looked at. If you'd like, you can email me and perhaps I can point you to resources. I have a few here and there that I gathered this year. :-( Take care, Carmen The brain can live without glucose. Don't be another blowhard know-it-all Carmen - answer this question straight: how many people who have cancer eat completely sugar free? how many studies are there of people who have given up all sugar and eaten 100% meat only over an extended period of time? I did the 60 mile walk for breast cancer Carmen and guess what they gave out for "energy" to the walkers? Sweet tarts and licorice sticks. I will never support them again. Another question I hope you will answer as a yes or no: Does cancer feed exclusively on sugar? Does it eat anything else? I am not talking about what causes cancer, but rather, what does it subsist on? Thanks C. >The brain can live without glucose. Don't be another blowhard know-it-all >Carmen - answer this question straight: > >how many people who have cancer eat completely sugar free? How many people who have cancer don't drink water? How many people who have had automoblie accidents have eaten carrots within the last 48 months? >how many studies are there of people who have given up all sugar and eaten 100% >meat only over an extended period of time? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks >C. --- Remove whiz to email ---- > Hi, > On 14-Jul-2004, Ignoramus15378 <ignoramus15378@NOSPAM.15378.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > quickly, don't die when they're supposed to and take all the resources > they can get. I have a huge cancer textbook that weighs, like, 15 lbs. It was a great read, I read it all. Very interesting stuff. >> I have seen references to high blood sugars increasing the rate of >> growth of cancer tumors. It is not far fetched to think that somehow [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > If you'd like, you can email me and perhaps I can point you to > resources. I have a few here and there that I gathered this year. Well, thanks, I think that you gave me a very adequate summary and going into more detail would not be useful for me at this point. i > >Could you please stop trying to help? Low carb doesn't prevent > >people from getting cancer, nor does it cure diseases or guarantee [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > doctors that > would go out of business if you werent sick. THINK. Vanessa, I'm a senior pre-med student with a 4.0 cum. Unless you can discuss cancer in terms of oncogenes, translocation mutations and deletions, apoptosis and transcription at a minimum you're in way over your head. As for whether or not cancer can live without sugar you've clearly not taken the process of gluconeogenesis into consideration. Different amino acids plug into the Kreb cycle at different points, some more glucogenic than others. Eating protein yields substrates for the process. Even Atkins' book states that 58% of the protein consumed will be used for gluconeogenesis. The glycerol backbone of the fats that are broken down can be run through the process as well. Just because you don't eat carbs doesn't mean there's no sugar in your body. Certain parts of your body have to have it for fuel - like your erythrocytes (red blood cells) for example. They cannot use ketones like the brain can. Even the brain still draws ~50% of its fuel from glucose in a whole-body ketogenic state. It never uses *only* ketones. I suggest in the future that you Google a person's posts before presuming you possess more knowledge on a subject than they do. I did. Carmen you're a med student? I fear for all society. You think by googling my posts you know anything about me? I have 2 other friends who use this screen name and we ALL use the name Vanessa because I'd be really insane if I used any real information about myself on the net. And as far as your 4.0 - I went to college at 15 (UCLA) and graduated with honors at 18. I also scored the highest on the PSAT at 15 years old of anyone in my state. If having an M.D. meant you knew anything, you'd have already cured as many diseases in people as I have. And sorry, loser who I just about guarantee is not in med school due to the amount of time on your hands, I don't google peoples posts - you creepy stalker. So I don't know if your husband is dying of cancer. If so, I suggest you cut out his carb. And you coward - HOW MANY CARB GRAMS DO YOU EAT A DAY? > you're a med student? I fear for all society. You think by googling > my posts [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > you cut out his carb. And you coward - HOW MANY CARB GRAMS DO YOU > EAT A DAY? Reading comprehension isn't your forte, is it? I suggest you re-read my post. This time for more than ocular exercise. You have some very basic misconceptions vis-a-vis lowcarbing. In order to correct them start with learning the glycolytic cycle. Next familiarize yourself with the citric acid cycle, then move on to the electron transport chain. Once you've gained a working overview of these processes fill in with fatty acid metabolism and the process of gluconeogenesis. (If you do this you'll see that the "irreversible steps" in glycolysis aren't really so after all). If you do not have an educational background in biology and chemistry you will first have to gain a working knowledge of the basic concepts and terms employed. If you want to truly understand low carbing, as opposed to merely using it as a tool, you have to understand some basic biological processes. It's going to take work. All the blind assertions on earth won't change reality. When you begin making wild claims of "curing diseases" people are going to start thinking you're a kook. Since it seems to be important to you: my carb intake varies. During my active weight loss phase (100 pounds from Jan '99 to Aug 2000) it was 20 grams or under a day. Now it varies from day to day. It can be as much as 60 or as few as 12. BTW, my husband is not dying of cancer. He had a synovial sarcoma in the thenar eminence of his left hand. Due to its size and the need for clear surgical margins the hand was amputated in March. There were no metastatic lesions found anywhere else in either lung CT scan or bone scan. He's had 4 of 6 cycles of high-dose doxorubicin and ifosfamide chemotherapy. At his height and weight (6'5" tall, 168 lbs this morning) cutting *anything* from his diet is contraindicated. Carmen if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't use technical and medical terms to try to stump people. Using big, hard words doesn't mean you are right, it just means you are trying to confuse people and convolute the issue so you SEEM right. So you are saying that protein turns into sugar and makes glucose regardless of eating any other carb? Is that what I am to discern from your show-offy dissertation? If so, lets hear more. And I'd like to know if you think so many of the modern day diseases are correlated to the amount of sugar people ingest. Also, do you think you can live with ZERO carb? Obviously, you are all knowing as a med student. LOL. And just a personal question - are you female or a gay male? It's one of the two. :-) > if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't use technical and medical > terms to try to stump people. Using big, hard words doesn't mean you are right, It is actually worthwhile to understand medical terminology. > it just means you are trying to confuse people and convolute the issue so you > SEEM right. So you are saying that protein turns into sugar and makes glucose That is correct. i > if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't use technical and medical > terms to try to stump people. Using big, hard words doesn't mean you are right, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are all knowing as a med student. LOL. And just a personal question - are you > female or a gay male? It's one of the two. :-) *plonk* > if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't use technical > and medical [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > issue so you > SEEM right. Vanessa, the only way you could adequately search for information on the subject for yourself is by using the correct terms. If I wrote things like "and then the chicken breast gets broken down and some of it turns into glucose" that isn't going to help you one bit. > So you are saying that protein turns into sugar and > makes glucose regardless of eating any other carb? Is that what I am > to discern > from your show-offy dissertation? If so, lets hear more. Yes, yes, and what would you like to discuss in particular? > And I'd like to know if you think so many of the modern day diseases > are correlated to the > amount of sugar people ingest. I wouldn't be surprised, especially in diseases involving glucose metabolism like diabetes. > Also, do you think you can live with ZERO carb? It's theoretically possible, as long as any vitamins and minerals that such a diet might be deficient in are supplemented. > Obviously, you are all knowing as a med student. LOL. And just a > personal question > - are you female or a gay male? It's one of the two. :-) I don't see what possible difference my sexual orientation or gender makes in the discussion but whatever. I'm a heterosexual female, age 37, and married for 17 years (18 years in September) with a 15 year old daughter. Carmen > Vanessa, I'm a senior pre-med student with a 4.0 cum. Unless you can > discuss cancer in terms of oncogenes, translocation mutations and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > for the process. Even Atkins' book states that 58% of the protein > consumed will be used for gluconeogenesis. No question some glucose can be made without consumption of carbs. Yet one won't come out of ketosis on protein and fats alone, remaining at depleted glycogen levels etc. How much this deficit is important as far as cancer is concerned I don't know - but it appears neither do you. Bragging on usenet about school grades or academic credentials never adds credibility. DZ > The glycerol backbone of the fats that are broken down can be run > through the process as well. Just because you don't eat carbs [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Even the brain still draws ~50% of its fuel from glucose in a > whole-body ketogenic state. It never uses *only* ketones. >>Why so? The Atkins diet, many believe, has associated health concerns >>including hyperlipidemia and the adverse effects of ketosis. >>Commercial (book) diets like Atkins have horrible failure rates and >>the majority who fail on these diets rebound weight to a higher level >WHAT A LOAD. there are no adverse effects of ketosis. Oh, yes ma'am, there certainly are. >Ketones are the original >source you body, heart and brain wants and needs to run on - WE HUMAN MORONS >made glucose the new fuel. That is why we are sick, fat, lethargic and stupid. Uh ok >The only health risks associated with low carb dieting are the idiots that dont >read and eve know what they are doing - like they eat the ketchup on their >protein wrapped burger, etc etc. uh no not really >Every EVERY every diet book has horrible failure weights and 75% or higher >regain the weight. DUH. This isn't just Atkins. Nope but Atkins is in that group of abominable failure rates. Why do you defend a failure of an approach to lifetime weight loss/maintenance? > The diet didnt fail, they did. No the diet lied to them and never told them their chance of long term success nears zilch. >Most diets help you lose weight but low >carb is the only diet (argue with me if you want but when you are dying of >cancer - another disease you CANNOT get while low carb eating, you can think of >this post) that cures diseases and makes you unbelievably healthy, happy and >sane. uh ok lol http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. How about you back up some of your rebuttals rather than just saying "Uh ok" or "Oh, yes ma'am, there certainly are." I'd like to see your sources to back up your statements. How about you back up some of your rebuttals rather than just saying "Uh ok" or "Oh, yes ma'am, there certainly are." I'd like to see your sources to back up your statements. >Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health >concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the >protein causes an acidic condition in the body which promotes calcium >loss among other things. EVen if people survive the diet they usually >rebound and gain the weight back. Both empirical and cited data agree with this 100% >The use of complex carbohydrates in the diet in a balanced way (as in >the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a lower >fasting insulin level without the risks. And with the same inevitable results. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health > concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the > protein causes an acidic condition in the body which promotes calcium > loss among other things. EVen if people survive the diet they usually > rebound and gain the weight back. Wow, yet more evidence that doctors know little about nutrition. > The use of complex carbohydrates in the diet in a balanced way (as in > the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a lower > fasting insulin level without the risks. >> Steve - I agree that the Atkin's diet has some associated health >> concerns such as the hyperlipidemia you refer to. In addition the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> the Zone diet) accomplishes the health benefits such as having a lower >> fasting insulin level without the risks. Did you mean lower fasting blood glucose levels? r SignatureNothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes. > Preface: To those who have commented on my occassional grammar > mistakes. Occasional my a.s. They're in virtually every sentence. >This is part of my social crusades. Not an English or > College Term Paper. I am not being paid, I am not selling anything. Good. You couldn't sell this crap if you wanted to. > And I am far more concerned with saving lives, then checking grammar. It's not just the grammar that's your problem - it's your logic, or, rather, lack of it. You seem to be IQ challenged. I'm not here to defend or condem that Atkins approach - I'm simply interested in the truth - "and the truth shall set you free". I'm interested in hearing 'both sides of the arguments' and read whatever pro and con arguments I can find. However... I've noticed that your arguments are often based on obsolete research. Much has changed, both in terms of scientific research, and prevailing opinions since 1993 (the copyright date on the book you reference below)... >STEVE BAYT >(Parma/Brook Park, Ohio) > >JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY Complete Guide For Preventing and Reversing >Heart Disease copyright1993 by Peter O. Kwiterwovich Jr. MD starts >tonight's article on Atkins Related Death Syndrome(ARDS): >Consumer Reports June 2002 page 30 foreshadows ARDS " For nearly 30 >years, the nutrition establishment has denounced the diet promulgated >by Dr. Robert C. Atkins for it's unsound, high-fat, ultra low >carbohydrate regimen. ... you're seriously looking to Consumer Reports as an authorithy on nutrition?? >The Mayo Clinics "The Ultimate guide to heart health by Bernard J. >Gersh second edition copyright 200 call number 616. 12 provide one of >dozens of quotes from library medical journal books. copyright 2000? >THE IDIOTS GUIDE TO TOTAL NUTRITION, Joy Bauer MS. RD, Chapter 2 tries >to explain that Carbohydrates don't turn into fat. This is a little better at least, with the 3rd edition coming out in 2002. I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from playing 'Devil's Advocate' and expressing your views about Atkins... I'm just saying I think you would have a much stronger argrument if you referred to more recent studies and opinions of reputable experts in the field of nutrition (Harvard, etc.) > I'm not here to defend or condem that Atkins approach - I'm simply > interested in the truth - "and the truth shall set you free". I'm [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > This is a little better at least, with the 3rd edition coming out in > 2002. Better? This is ridiculous. "Carbohydrates don't turn into fat"? If this were true, you could eat unlimited amounts of sugar and never turn fat. > I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from playing 'Devil's > Advocate' and expressing your views about Atkins... I'm just saying I > think you would have a much stronger argrument if you referred to more > recent studies and opinions of reputable experts in the field of > nutrition (Harvard, etc.) Of course we should look at the the people who eat a low-fat vegetarian diet ( the anti-Atkins Diet see Dean Ornish)to see how they do. ( Looks like they could use a little Atkins). Special Features of Coranary Artery Disease among Indians Commonly manifests at earlier age, usually a decade earlier (around 45-50 years); 3-25 per cent are less than 40 years of age. Indians in 30-39 years have 10 times greater risk of AMI than Caucasians of same age. High prevalence of metabolic and dietary risk factors even among school-going adolescent. Age standardised mortality ratio (SMR) for CAD is 313 higher in the age group of 20-29 years compares to Whites. Indians with CAD has more extensive triple vessel disease (54 per cent against 21 per cent) than western world; commonly manifests with AMI without prior Angina. Analysis of Coronary risk factors often fails to explain marked differences in CAD rates among different ethnic groups. In spite of their wining and dining habits, France has the lowest rate of CAD among Europeans. Low rate of CAD is visible among Japanese and Chinese despite high rates of smoking and hypertension. In America and African countries, the incidence of CAD is lower despite high prevalence of obesity, diabetes mellitus and hypertension, elevated Lp(a) and low socio-economic status in African countries. On the contrary, the prevalence of CAD in India is higher despite lower prevalence of smoking (3 per cent against 27 per cent), hypertension (14 per cent against 19 per cent), elevated cholesterol (. 240 mg/dl) (17 per cent against 23 per cent) and obesity (31 per cent against 3 per cent) and higher prevalence of spiritual faith and vegetarianism. As per Framingham's Study, 30-35 per cent Indians with CAD lack traditional risk factors except for Diabetes Mellitus (8 per cent against 1 per cent in the West). ( source Healthcare Managment, Copyright 2000: Indian Express Group (Mumbai, India). ) Ray Audette Author "NeanderThin" (works better than Lipitor) www.NeanderThin.com |
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