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Help with maintainence

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Shawn Manning - 13 Jul 2004 22:20 GMT
Hello,

Everytime I had ever needed help with my weightloss goals, I always turned
to this group for tips, motivation support etc. Now that I have lost the
weight, I am turning to this group with my new problem with maintaining the
weight loss.

First a bit of quick history, started in Feb 2002 weighing in at 350lbs. By
Dec. 2003 was down to 160lbs. Stayed pretty constant at that number till
about March and then the trouble started.

Since mid March, I have been craving food and lots of it. My average caloric
intake has jumped to 3700 calories daily. I have not had any emotional
moments in my life and I don't eat because I am bored, I simply get hungry.
The one thing screwing me up though has been an extreme craving for cereal,
I have been demolishing boxes of the stuff. I am eating healthy (lean
turkey, tuna, chicken etc) just too much of it. To compensate for the
intake, I have bumped up my workouts at the gym and focusing heavily on
cardio. I usually do 6.5 miles on the elliptical 6 times a week and in
addition I now run 7 miles 2-3 times a week on the treadmill. Weight has
jumped to 178lbs-180lbs and I have a bad feeling this is a slide towards my
old form again. I did have my bodyfat tested and it came at 10.6%

I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.
JMA - 13 Jul 2004 22:45 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
> provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.

How many times a day do you eat?  One of the things that's helped me with
hunger is to eat 5 or 6 times a day, small meals each time.  Each meal has
protein and quality carbs (no white flour, sugar, pasta, etc), I include
vegetables in a few of them meals, and most meals have some fat.  Some
people have found that higher fat helps them feel full longer, I personally
can't tolerate a lot of fat because I have no gall bladder.  The only
cereals I eat are ones that are high in fiber (Fiber One is my favorite) but
I always measure it out to make sure I don't eat too much of it.

Drinking a lot of water helps too. YMMV of course.

Congrats on the loss and I hope you are able to find something that works
for you!

Jenn
Teri - 13 Jul 2004 22:54 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> The one thing screwing me up though has been an extreme craving for cereal,
> I have been demolishing boxes of the stuff. [snip]>

This happens to me too.  Cereal is a real weak spot.  When I find I'm
craving and eating too much cereal - I make a clean sweep and throw it all
out.  If it's not in the house, I can't/won't  eat it.  When the craving
hits - drink a tall glass of water and try to eat *some* protein (cheese or
nuts work for me, but I have to be careful not to overindulge in the nuts)
and then get busy doing something.  Good luck!
Teri
Ignoramus7328 - 13 Jul 2004 23:17 GMT
> This happens to me too.  Cereal is a real weak spot.  When I find I'm
> craving and eating too much cereal - I make a clean sweep and throw it all
> out.  If it's not in the house, I can't/won't  eat it.  When the craving
> hits - drink a tall glass of water and try to eat *some* protein (cheese or
> nuts work for me, but I have to be careful not to overindulge in the nuts)
> and then get busy doing something.  Good luck!

makes it much easier to not eat anything sweetened in the first
place...

i
Ignoramus7328 - 13 Jul 2004 23:16 GMT
> Hello,
> Everytime I had ever needed help with my weightloss goals, I always turned
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Dec. 2003 was down to 160lbs. Stayed pretty constant at that number till
> about March and then the trouble started.

Very impressive, and shows that you have some willpower towards
achieving your goals.

> Since mid March, I have been craving food and lots of it. My average caloric
> intake has jumped to 3700 calories daily. I have not had any emotional
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> jumped to 178lbs-180lbs and I have a bad feeling this is a slide towards my
> old form again. I did have my bodyfat tested and it came at 10.6%

You are very slim at this body fat level.

> I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
> provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.

I think that it is a good time to speak to a professional who actually
has some credentials in this specific area. I don't think that many
people in this newsgroup are at 10% BF and so there are not many
people who can relate to your experience at such low bodyfat. (it is
low for a person who started out at 350 lbs).

There could be a few factors and not just one.

My feeling is that you basically overshot your dieting and lost too
much weight. Perhaps, a valid strategy could be to gain some weight,
and also do heavy weightlifting so that the gains are mostly muscle
gains, so that you look good and can eat carbs better.

How are you eating? What is your typical day of eating? Could your
overeating be due to either unbalanced eating (lack of amino acids or
essential fats), or due to blood sugar control issues? (like, getting
hungry 2 hours after eating cake). What's your own thinking?

You previously were eating lots of sushi, pasta etc, perhaps it is
time to ditch that. Seriously. Easier to live without suchi and pasta,
than agonize about weight regain, cravings, etc etc.

It is next to impossible to balance so much eating with exercise...

Try brainstorming publicly a little bit, throw in some ideas.

Are the cravings constant during the day or not, do they follow any
meals. Do you have any known health problems, do you know if you have
insulin resistance, are you excluding any major foods, do you eat
breakfast, etc.

Maybe a combination of a few changes, and a small regain, could help
you stabilize.

I am also hungry much of the time, but not to the point of bring
desperate like you, so even though I sympathize, I have not yet been
in your shoes. My long term goal is to have 12% bodyfat, not 10.

Good luck, if you approach this realistically, inteligently and with
an open mind, you can solve your problem and redefine it.
i
Shawn Manning - 13 Jul 2004 23:46 GMT
I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
that sometimes I just can't eat. I eat a roughly 300 calorie breakfast
consisting of tuna and a piece of fruit. The thing that screws me up is the
cereal cravings, once I start I polish off a whole box in one sitting. Then
the guilt hits, then I go running to work it off. I guess I will have to
follow the advice of a previous poster and just ban the stuff from my house.
(My roommates will not be happy)
> > Hello,
> > Everytime I had ever needed help with my weightloss goals, I always turned
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> an open mind, you can solve your problem and redefine it.
> i
JMA - 14 Jul 2004 00:07 GMT
> I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
> ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> follow the advice of a previous poster and just ban the stuff from my house.
> (My roommates will not be happy)

Are they happy with you eating all of the cereal? ;)

I used to have a roommate long ago who liked a particular type of chips that
I could easily polish off in one sitting so she kept them in her room.  It
helped both of us.

Jenn
Patricia Heil - 14 Jul 2004 00:28 GMT
> I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
> ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> > an open mind, you can solve your problem and redefine it.
> > i

I think that breakfast might be too little.  Is it an issue of trying to
keep down fat and calories or of not having time for a good breakfast?  If
the latter, then is it possible to go to bed a little earlier?  Also I don't
remember but were you making sure the cereal and pasta were whole grain
products?  There's good whole wheat pasta out there and it leaves me feeling
very satisfied.

My personal experience when I have cravings is that I've been ignoring
nutritional needs.  If it's a cereal craving, are you restricting your
grains intake to only one type like the cereal?  Are you ignoring brown
rice, buckwheat, quinoa?  Could you add dried beans/peas/lentils/chickpeas
which have some carbs but also tons of fiber and low-fat protein and
significant iron and B vitamins (also help lower LDL)?  If you need recipes
for this last email me, I have a ton of them.
Ignoramus7328 - 14 Jul 2004 01:42 GMT
> I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
> ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the guilt hits, then I go running to work it off. I guess I will have to
> follow the advice of a previous poster and just ban the stuff from my house.

You know, this good be happening for all kinds of reasons, but the
most typical reason is that your blood glucose level is too low and
that makes you ravenously hungry for carbs. It is very easy to find
out, without any speculation, just what happens to your blood sugar
when you are ravenously hungry. Try to borrow someone's blood sugar
monitor if you have diabetic relatives, or buy one super cheaply at
walmart, the whole setup will be about $30.

I experimented and found that after eating 52 grams of carbs
(glucose), for example, my blood sugar goes to 140 in one hour, and 70
in two hours, at which point I am very hungry myself. Maybe you have a
similar reaction, you can find that out for sure. Obviously, medical
diagnoses are the domain of medical doctors, but, at least, you will
know if that is a route worth exploring. At the cost of only 10 cereal
boxes you will know for sure. A good chance is that your answer lies
right there, people who get to 350 lbs usually have some sort of a
problem of this nature.

Getting rid of sugary cereal is not a bad idea, but, I think, more
understanding is needed. Try thinking hard and getting some objective
data on your problem.

Also, try to reallocate more calories towards your breakfast and
dinner. Eg, say tomorrow, eat two ounces of some fat on breakfast
(butter, olive oil, whatever), in addition to whatever you eat, and
try to stay away from cereal. Do the same for dinner. See if you feel
any better. Do some experimenting, writing down etc.

i
Chris Braun - 14 Jul 2004 03:24 GMT
>I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
>ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
>that sometimes I just can't eat. I eat a roughly 300 calorie breakfast
>consisting of tuna and a piece of fruit.

That might not be enough breakfast for you.  I'd recommend trying to
get 20-25% of your day's calories at breakfast.  How about adding a
nice big bowl of oatmeal to your breakfast?  It might help with your
cereal craving, but it's much better for you than most boxed cereals.
And it's very filling.  Or you might try oatmeal at night if you have
cereal cravings then.  When I make oatmeal I add a scoop of protein
powder to it, to get more nutritional bang for the buck.  (I don't
include tuna in my breakfast, though :-) .)

I also had the same thought as Ignoramus: perhaps you're just trying
to maintain a weight that isn't realistic for your body, and as a
result are really feeling over-hungry.  Perhaps if you let yourself
maintain at a slightly higher weight you'd find that the excessive
hunger disappears.

Anyway, good luck.  Keep experimenting!

Chris
262/144/ (145-150)
Ignoramus7328 - 14 Jul 2004 03:57 GMT
>>I try to eat four meals a day but in all honesty, my biggest meal of the day
>>ends up being at night. As much as I try, things get so busy here at work
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> maintain at a slightly higher weight you'd find that the excessive
> hunger disappears.

Someone, in another newsgroup, suggested gaining weight slowly, in
response to a similar situation.

i

> Anyway, good luck.  Keep experimenting!
>
> Chris
> 262/144/ (145-150)
Heywood Mogroot - 14 Jul 2004 03:58 GMT
> the guilt hits, then I go running to work it off. I guess I will have to
> follow the advice of a previous poster and just ban the stuff from my house.

works for me. I, too, am a 'cereal killer'. When I was in Japan they
didn't have semi-sweetened cereal like Life, or the good stuff like
Corn Pops, so I would bring a big box of 25 different cereals back on
the plane with me every year (which would normally be a half-year's
supply).

The box wouldn't last a month.

I've switched to Cheerios now, and with my protein powder (lightly
sweetened with Stevia) it's serving my breakfast needs quite well --
it tastes exactly like Frosted Cheerios, but with no added sugar at
all.

I don't have any other advice for you about maintenance since I ain't
quite there yet.

Heywood

232/191/182
determined - 14 Jul 2004 16:10 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
> provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.

Do you track your intake in fitday?  I'd be interested to see what
percentage of your daily calories are allocated to carbs/protein/fat.  If
you aren't getting enough fat and protein, you will not feel as full.  Even
not getting enough fat heavily contributes how long I feel full after
eating.  Fat is not a bad thing, you just need to try and eat healthy fats.
Do you have this % breakdown?

det
determined - 14 Jul 2004 16:13 GMT
"Shawn Manning" <hhk@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:zmYIc.9258

>  I did have my bodyfat tested and it came at 10.6%
> I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
> provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.

Well, 10% is quite low.  You might want to switch to a cutting/bulking
cycle, where you eat more calories, but eat them to fuel muscle growth.
Then you can increase your metabolism with the extra muscle.  After you gain
a set amount of weight (hopefully mostly muscle) you can switch to a cutting
cycle where you drop bf again.
Or you might want to consider a bf% that is a little easier to maintain.

det
Mary M - Ohio - 14 Jul 2004 16:39 GMT
> Hello,
>
> Everytime I had ever needed help with my weightloss goals, I always turned
> to this group for tips, motivation support etc. Now that I have lost the
> weight, I am turning to this group with my new problem with maintaining the
> weight loss.

I can relate on the cereal problem, and it no longer sits in my cupboards -- it was
my first "binge food" (no kidding, it is filled with refined carbs) -- and since
childhood, I've demonstrated over and over that I cannot eat just a little bit of it.
Along with starting a craving cycle, "demolishing boxes of the stuff" is adding lots
of calories to your intake. Multiply the number of servings in a box (probably  more
than 10) by the calories per serving (probably over 110), and you'll see how many
calories you are eating just in cereal-- and worse, you're eating all those calories
and it's making you hungrier and hungrier, not fuller. The curse of breakfast cereal.
:-) You have come very far and it's good to catch things now. I am going through the
same thing with weight maintenance -- so stick around and post how you're doing.

Mary
325-160-148
Shawn Manning - 14 Jul 2004 17:22 GMT
OK,

here is my link to the fitday journal

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=hussaink

Please review and start piling on the assessments. The more brutal the
better as I really want to get a "feel" of what I am doing wrong. Thank you
all in advance.
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> I'm desparate for any tips, tricks, suggestions, support you guys can
> provide that might help me with the eating issue. Thanks.
Ignoramus15378 - 14 Jul 2004 17:47 GMT
> http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=hussaink

Great job logging to fitday... I looked at Jul 12 and 13. Scary stuff.

I also love turkey breast, by the way.

It stands very obvious to me that your low fat approach is not working
at all, for you, in that it does not control your appetite.

I think that you basically have a health emergency and, first, need to
try to find some pro who knows about these issues specifically.
Personally, I would find someone who does not have psychology as the
primary qualification.

Secondly, it would be worthwhile to ditch your cereal completely and
dramatically increase the amount of fat you eat. Try starting the next
morning with a small fruit, like an apricot, and 2-3 ounces of olive
oil. Not the tastiest breakfast, but, you may well find that you are
not ravenous after a few hours.  Snack on a few tomatoes between
breakfast and lunch. For lunch, eat some turkey breast with a small
fruit again, make a cabbage salad with olive oil, and eat maybe some
good quantity of unbreaded fish for dinner. Don't obsess with
calories, it would beat your 7,000 calorie days that you have with
cereal. You'd probably end up at 2,000-2,700 calories.

Give this a try, for a few days, you have nothing to lose. Aim for
about 100 grams of carbs. See where it leads you.

I know that I cannot maintain my weight or eat sanely with sugary
foods, sweets, cereals etc. Myself, I eat about 150-170 grams of carbs
per day, and feel some hunger and food thoughts, but, it is not
terrible.

And, again, you probably need to find some doc or whoever, who is
actually qualified. I could be very difficult to find one like that,
but, you need to spend some time on it. I would prefer a doctor and I
would spend a long time asking people for referrals etc.

Try visiting two more newsgroups, alt.support.diet.low-carb and
misc.fitness.weights, they have some people with relevant
experience. You can always post under fake names if you want to.
Take the good stuff and ignore the flames. Good luck.

i
determined - 15 Jul 2004 18:39 GMT
> OK,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> better as I really want to get a "feel" of what I am doing wrong. Thank you
> all in advance.

28 servings of cereal?  11 servings of fruit bars??  You need to ditch the
carbs and eat more fat.  You may even benefit from a atkins-type induction
of eliminating carbs for a few days, to get off the carb addiction.  Try
eating 100g of carbs or less per day for about a week.  Then gradually add
back in low glycemic carbs (veggies, high fiber breads and cereals, whole
wheat products) to a point that is well balanced - probably not more than
40% from carbs.

And it looks to me like you're binging, I'm no expert there, but you need to
address that issue.

det
Ignoramus23926 - 15 Jul 2004 18:43 GMT
>> OK,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> wheat products) to a point that is well balanced - probably not more than
> 40% from carbs.

I am glad that we agree.

i
Ignoramus23926 - 16 Jul 2004 04:25 GMT
Shawn actually had a better day today...

i

>>> OK,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> i
Ignoramus30884 - 17 Jul 2004 21:07 GMT
>> OK,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> det

he has not even tried our suggestion... What a pity.

i
 
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