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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / July 2004Predisposition towards obesity is genetic
Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this excerpt from a study with this. Predisposition towards obesity is genetic. It turns into obesity by environment (too much food, wrong food and lack of exercise). Pima indians were not fat 300 years ago (we think). Predisposition can be overcome, sometimes, by diet and exercise. But, people blaming their childhood home environment for their obesity, may be wrong. According to the article, ``a number of studies have described a closer relationship between the weights of adoptees and their biological parents rather than their adoptive parents''. So, environment in adoptive homes did not have nearly as much effect on adoptees, compared to who was their biological parent. A question that is open is this. As parents, we try to create some sort of healthy environment for our children, so that they grow up as fit people. Are our efforts statistically doomed to be irrelevant to their final health? It is hard to believe, and does not, strictly speaking, follow from the adoptee finding, but it is a disconcerting thought. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- read this and weep... http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/paed/medical_education/postgraduate/endocrine_metaboli sm/pathogenesis_genetics_obesity.htm ``Studies in twins, adoptees and families indicate that as much as 80% of the variance in the body mass index is attributable to genetic factors. Twin studies suggest a heritability of fat mass of between 40-70%. Concordance between monozygotic twins is 0.7-0.9, compared to 0.35-0.45 between dizygotic twins. While these associations may in part be explained by sharing the same childhood environment, a number of studies have described a closer relationship between the weights of adoptees and their biological parents rather than their adoptive parents. These genetic influences are not confined to the extremes of obesity, but exert their effect across the whole range of body weight and are consistent with a polygenic inheritance of fat mass. The potential implication of genetic factors in the development of human obesity is well demonstrated by the description of six monogenic forms of the pathological human obesity to date. These genes encode proteins of the leptin axis and brain-expressed targets of leptin involved in the melanocortin pathway. They include leptin, the leptin receptor, pro-opiomelanocortin (POMC), proconvertase 1 (PC1), Peroxisome-proliferator-activated receptor g2 (PPARg2), and the melanocortin-4 receptor (MC4-R). Except for MC4-R, mutations in these genes cause rare, recessive, syndromic forms of obesity, associated with multiple endocrine abnormalities. '' Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." In other words can do nothing about it. Because overweight does not run on either side of my family and I am the only one of 3 children who has been overweight most of her life. And when I was not overweight, it was because I was getting plenty of exercise. It has always been true for me that if I can force myself to exercise, I have lower weight. And overweight does not run on either side of my family. So with me, it is a behavioral thing and not a genetic thing. > Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this > excerpt from a study with this. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > read this and weep... http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/paed/medical_education/postgraduate/endocrine_metaboli sm/pathogenesis_genetics_obesity.htm > ``Studies in twins, adoptees and families indicate that as much as 80% > of the variance in the body mass index is attributable to genetic [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > genes cause rare, recessive, syndromic forms of obesity, associated > with multiple endocrine abnormalities. '' > Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say > "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." In other words can do > nothing about it. Being predisposed does not mean that I can do nothing about it. It just means that I am predisposed. > Because overweight does not run on either side of my > family and I am the only one of 3 children who has been overweight most of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > either side of my family. So with me, it is a behavioral thing and not a > genetic thing. I am very gad for you Patricia, seriously, it sounds like you have a relatively easy time maintaining your weight. I admire your dedication to exercise. Congratulations. i >> Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this >> excerpt from a study with this. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> genes cause rare, recessive, syndromic forms of obesity, associated >> with multiple endocrine abnormalities. '' > > Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say > > "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." In other words can do > > nothing about it. > > Being predisposed does not mean that I can do nothing about it. It > just means that I am predisposed. There's lots of alcoholism in my family, so it's probable that I'm genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic. Yet, I hate getting drunk so I only have two beers once a week, over a 4 hour period. I think hating being drunk is a personality trait, not a physiological one. There are some fat people in my family, and the ones who aren't fat are _very_ strict, almost pathologically so, about what they eat. As soon as they relax their eating a bit, say during pregnancy, they balloon up and have to work extremely hard to get thin again. I think a genetic predisposition to something isn't a given that it will happen to you, it just means you may have to work harder to avoid it.  SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. It is genetic. We are genetically wired to eat diets with no manufactured and refined carbohydrates. TC > Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say > "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." In other words can do [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > genes cause rare, recessive, syndromic forms of obesity, associated > > with multiple endocrine abnormalities. '' > It is genetic. We are genetically wired to eat diets with no > manufactured and refined carbohydrates. > > TC Well said. Tom 210/180/180 >Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say >"because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." Huh? If you are obese you ARE genetically predispoed. That doesn't mean you can't do anything about it. If you're willing to eat much less and exercise much more than the average person, it's very likely you can keep your body weight at normal. >nothing about it. Because overweight does not run on either side of my >family and I am the only one of 3 children who has been overweight most of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >either side of my family. So with me, it is a behavioral thing and not a >genetic thing. Still a genetic thing. You don't need to see it in your family for you to have a genetic difference from them. Did anyone else in your family have thyroid cancer? Were your siblings only able to keep their body weight low by exercise? Or were they just slender naturally. People without a genetic predisposition to obesity just don't get fat. >> Predisposition towards obesity is genetic. It turns into obesity by >> environment (too much food, wrong food and lack of exercise). Pima >> indians were not fat 300 years ago (we think). Predisposition can be >> overcome, sometimes, by diet and exercise. I know this getting into Ig's post, but Pima Indians are fat because their traditional lifestyle was feast or famine. Like most Indians, they didn't farm and foraged for food. Most of what they got was not calorically dense. Don't think there are too many people willing to eat a cactus every six months. Also most Pima's aren't exactly rich, and so they eat the worst things like fast-food, which vastly exacerbates the problem. Pimas are the most studied obese people in the world, so there is plenty of literature to establish that they have trouble keeping their weight down even with good habits, but, it does help. FWIW. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ > Also most Pima's aren't exactly rich, and so they eat the worst things > like fast-food, which vastly exacerbates the problem. > Pimas are the most studied obese people in the world, so there is > plenty of literature to establish that they have trouble keeping their > weight down even with good habits, but, it does help. Pima Indians also have one of the highest rates of Type II Diabetes in the world. 50% of all adults are affected. Tom 210/180/180 >Pima Indians also have one of the highest rates of Type II Diabetes in the >world. 50% of all adults are affected. Yep. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ > Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say > "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." Nobody is genetically predisposed to being obese, they just have to work harder not to gain weight. I once discussed it with a doctor (who said it was a bad excuse that the genes caused a person's overweight) and I said she couldn't deny some people gain easier than others, and she just said: "then they MUST work harder." >> Please, people, don't make the mistake of generalizing to yourself to say >> "because I am obese I am genetically predisposed." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >said she couldn't deny some people gain easier than others, and she just >said: "then they MUST work harder." Symantics. Having a harder time keeping weight off IS a genetic predisposition to obesity. You're confusing genetics with laziness. No one ever said that given enough dedication almost everyone can lose weight and keep it off. I'm living proof. Barbara 210/124 since November 1997 Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ > Symantics. Having a harder time keeping weight off IS a genetic > predisposition to obesity. > > You're confusing genetics with laziness. No one ever said that given > enough dedication almost everyone can lose weight and keep it off. I'm > living proof. It may be semantics, but I think it is counter-productive to call it predisposition to obesity, because that way it is used as an excuse. "I have a slow metabolism and thus need to work harder" is a better phrase. >> Symantics. Having a harder time keeping weight off IS a genetic >> predisposition to obesity. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > predisposition to obesity, because that way it is used as an excuse. "I > have a slow metabolism and thus need to work harder" is a better phrase. Just because something can be used as an excuse, does not make it any less real. i > Just because something can be used as an excuse, does not make it any > less real. I dind't say it *can* be used as an excuse, but it is worded as an excuse. And it is false to say that one is fat because of the genetic predisposition. One is fat because one didn't have the drive, motivation, ambition, inspiration, stubbornness, selfrespect to work to avoid it. Now I'm not talking about physical illness factors (although mental illness factors are included). >> Just because something can be used as an excuse, does not make it any >> less real. > > I dind't say it *can* be used as an excuse, but it is worded as an > excuse. Still does not make it less true. > And it is false to say that one is fat because of the genetic > predisposition. One is fat because one didn't have the drive, > motivation, ambition, inspiration, stubbornness, selfrespect to work > to avoid it. Now I'm not talking about physical illness factors > (although mental illness factors are included). Some things happen because of a confluence of factors. Predisposition, environment, denial or lack of dedication are the factors that need to be there for one to become obese. Numerous people have no motivation, ambition, hate exercise, eat junk, and do not gain weight. Why? Because they have no predisposition towards weight gain. Some people need to do moderate exercise and not eat some "evil food" and they maintain well. Those are the ones that have a moderate degree of that predisposition. Some people feel starved on any kind of diet and despite loads of efforts, give up, overeat etc, feeling awful yada yada. Those, probably, have a high degree of predisposition. (or have not yet found a good diet) You may have an interest in making moralistic judgments, if so, please continue. I am not interested in it to the same extent. i 223/172/180 > Some things happen because of a confluence of factors. Predisposition, > environment, denial or lack of dedication are the factors that need > to be there for one to become obese. Which is what I said. Although I don't give predisposition as much credit as some people. I think it is wrong to blame the result on the predisposisiton. > Numerous people have no motivation, ambition, hate exercise, eat junk, > and do not gain weight. Why? Because they have no predisposition > towards weight gain. All people have predisposition to gain weight, it just requires different amounts of food. If you take one of those skinny big eaters, forces him/her to sit still (which would be very diffecult, because that type tends to be hyperactive and can't sit still for a minute wihtout tapping the feet and fingers) all day and eat huge amounts of food, the person will gain, unless there is some illness that prevents it. > Some people need to do moderate exercise and not eat some "evil food" > and they maintain well. Those are the ones that have a moderate degree [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > probably, have a high degree of predisposition. (or have not yet found > a good diet) When a person eats less, hunger appears. If the person does not react on the hunger, the hunger goes away, because the body adjusts. >> Some things happen because of a confluence of factors. Predisposition, >> environment, denial or lack of dedication are the factors that need [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > credit as some people. I think it is wrong to blame the result on the > predisposisiton. But now, at least, you acknowledge its existence. >> Numerous people have no motivation, ambition, hate exercise, eat junk, >> and do not gain weight. Why? Because they have no predisposition [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tapping the feet and fingers) all day and eat huge amounts of food, the > person will gain, unless there is some illness that prevents it. Some skinny people are not big eaters, they simply have modest appetite. They simply don;t want to eat much. >> Some people need to do moderate exercise and not eat some "evil food" >> and they maintain well. Those are the ones that have a moderate degree [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > When a person eats less, hunger appears. If the person does not react on > the hunger, the hunger goes away, because the body adjusts. Well, it has been a almost year since I lost weight, I have maintained it in a very stable manner -- see http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/ -- and yet I always want to eat more than I can afford, calorically. And I exercise quite a bit. It is not going away. i > Well, it has been a almost year since I lost weight, I have maintained > it in a very stable manner -- see http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/ > -- and yet I always want to eat more than I can afford, > calorically. And I exercise quite a bit. It is not going away. This is going to sound like a snipe provocation, but I really do think it might solve your problem: Have you considered psychological therapy? It might be a kind of compulsive thought patterns. > This is going to sound like a snipe provocation, but I really do think > it might solve your problem: Have you considered psychological therapy? > It might be a kind of compulsive thought patterns. forgot to add: Or it could be that there is a specific one thing your body is crying out for (i.e. not extra volume nor extra calories). I'm often hungry when not LC, because I don't get the protein I need. On HC I'm extremely hungry all the time, but if I make sure I get my proteins even on HC, then I'm not hungry. >> This is going to sound like a snipe provocation, but I really do think >> it might solve your problem: Have you considered psychological therapy? >> It might be a kind of compulsive thought patterns. > > forgot to add: Or it could be that there is a specific one thing your > body is crying out for (i.e. not extra volume nor extra calories). I am open to suggestions. > I'm often hungry when not LC, because I don't get the protein I > need. On HC I'm extremely hungry all the time, but if I make sure I > get my proteins even on HC, then I'm not hungry. A good thought, yes. I suspect that there may be truth to what you are saying, in regards to me. i >> Well, it has been a almost year since I lost weight, I have maintained >> it in a very stable manner -- see http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it might solve your problem: Have you considered psychological therapy? > It might be a kind of compulsive thought patterns. I have considered it briefly, and somehow I do not believe that it is a psychological issue. I think that I have a genuinely high appetite or an issue that is somatic in nature. I tried recently to eat "low carb", meaning istead of my customary 150 carbs, to eat something like 70 carbs. It definitely blunted my appetite, but I am not sure if this is the right approach for the long run. Still deciding. i > I have considered it briefly, and somehow I do not believe that it is > a psychological issue. I think that I have a genuinely high appetite [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > appetite, but I am not sure if this is the right approach for the long > run. Still deciding. I did well on 60-80 carbs a day at 2100-2200 cals a day. How does your appetite react when you are upset, stressed, or sad? I lose mine completely. yesterday I didn't get any food at all, only coffee, a pint of Haagen Dazs pecan ice cream and my homemade chocolate muffins. They only nutritional value I got was the pecans and the Valrhona chocolate pieces in the muffins. In the evneing I watched Once Upon a Time in China with my roommate and she said as we ate my muffins: do you relaize I've only had coffee, girl scout cookies, leftover mac and cheese and chocolate muffins today? Then I told about my gourmet journey for the day ;) Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same meaning: fat, overweight, obese, unfit? :: Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this :: excerpt from a study with this. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] :: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- :: read this and weep... http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/paed/medical_education/postgraduate/endocrine_metaboli sm/pathogenesis_genetics_obesity.htm :: ``Studies in twins, adoptees and families indicate that as much as :: 80% of the variance in the body mass index is attributable to genetic [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] :: forms of obesity, associated with multiple endocrine abnormalities. :: '' > Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same meaning: fat, > overweight, obese, unfit? They have different meaning. For example, one can be slim and unfit. or, overweight but not obese. i >:: Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this >:: excerpt from a study with this. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >:: forms of obesity, associated with multiple endocrine abnormalities. >:: '' :: In article <2lq8cpFfgu2dU1@uni-berlin.de>, Roger Zoul wrote: ::: Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :: :: or, overweight but not obese. And one can be overweight and fit, too. Of course, the more overweight one is, the harder it is to remain fit (for much). Whenever people talk about this stuff, these terms get all intermingled. How can there ever be useful discourse when the terms all get blurred. Getting back on topic, it is easy to see that some of us are predisposed to being overweight. Being predisposed, being sedentary, and eating too much would seeem to be the obvious factors at work to get many people into the danger zone. But why it is that so many of us now seem to be predisposed? Or is it that the latter two factors (sednetary and eating too much) are really the root cause? It seems (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root cause more much moreso than predisposition. > :: In article <2lq8cpFfgu2dU1@uni-berlin.de>, Roger Zoul wrote: > ::: Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > really the root cause? It seems (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root > cause more much moreso than predisposition. The properly selected life-style can counter-act predisposition. Predisposition is not a cause but an indicator that we have to watch the factors we can control. BJ >:: In article <2lq8cpFfgu2dU1@uni-berlin.de>, Roger Zoul wrote: >::: Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And one can be overweight and fit, too. Of course, the more overweight one > is, the harder it is to remain fit (for much). Correct. > Whenever people talk about this stuff, these terms get all > intermingled. How can there ever be useful discourse when the terms > all get blurred. Agreed. > Getting back on topic, it is easy to see that some of us are > predisposed to being overweight. Being predisposed, being sedentary, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root cause more much moreso > than predisposition. There is a combination of causes. Some may be present and some missing. Genes, diet and lifestyle are all causes. My dad is one example. He never liked exercise. But, for the first 50 years of his life he lived in Russia, and we did not own a car, so he was forced to walk a lot. So he was never particularly fat, maybe BMI 25-27. Then he moved to the US, bought a car, and in a couple of years after that his belly started ballooning. His mother is another example. She is diabetic at the age of 82. I can guess that if she was sedentary and eating SAD diet, she would have it at 50 instead. Only a speculation. Do they have fat genes? You bet. Is diet and lifestyle what triggered their condition? Probably, but not certainly. i > :: In article <2lq8cpFfgu2dU1@uni-berlin.de>, Roger Zoul wrote: > ::: Why is it that all of these words seem to always have the same [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > really the root cause? It seems (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root > cause more much moreso than predisposition. IMHO the changes the world has gone through in the last 20, 30, 50, 100 years is a contributing factor. Hard physical labor has been reduced by heavy equipment; never-ending housework has been reduced by labor-saving appliances; as service jobs increase more people work at desks; the plethora of fast-food and convenience stores makes it easy to eat on a whim, at any time of day or night, and often without having to leave the car. Prepared foods which offer convenience if not good nutrition are available everywhere, and cheap. Advertising bombards us with offers of tasty food, usually with the tastiness of fat, salt, and sweet. It used to be the case (generally) that it took physical work to earn a living, keep house, and maintain your possessions. Food took time and work to prepare. Simple, basic ingredients were all that were available and a lot of foods were seasonal, not available year-round. People, again generally, usually didn't make enough money to eat to excess. Gout was a rich man's disease. Children had chores (work, real work) to perform to help the family day-to-day. Television (and leisure/games/entertainment) was not a major factor in people's lives. I think that the prevalence in obesity is due at least in part to these relatively rapid changes in the world, and our collective inability to deal wisely with the changes. Like the proverbial kid in a candy shop, the opportunity to overindulge is now within the grasp of almost everyone in the developed nations, and we are not dealing with it properly. - Dewolla > I think that the prevalence in obesity is due at least in part to these > relatively rapid changes in the world, and our collective inability to deal > wisely with the changes. Like the proverbial kid in a candy shop, the > opportunity to overindulge is now within the grasp of almost everyone in the > developed nations, and we are not dealing with it properly. yup. Modern society is designed to make you fat, as a side-effect of both consumption and convenience. Supersized portions, engineered sugars and fats, powered wheelchairs for the unfit at stores. eat-drink-consume -> wheel yourself around >Getting back on topic, it is easy to see that some of us are predisposed to >being overweight. Being predisposed, being sedentary, and eating too much [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >really the root cause? It seems (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root >cause more much moreso than predisposition. It's a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Environmental: portions are getting larger, we move less. Genetic: The effects of obesity, gestational and type-2 diabetes in the mother make metabolic changes in offspring. That group of children is the most likely to be obese before the age of 5.* *Risk factors for childhood overweight: A prospective study from birth to 9.5 years. Agras WS, et al. J Pediatr. 2004 Jul;145(1):20-5. Predicting preschooler obesity at birth: the role of maternal obesity in early pregnancy. Whitaker RC. Pediatrics. 2004 Jul;114(1):e29-36. So it's both. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ > It seems (to me) as if lifestyle are really the root > cause more much moreso than predisposition. I think both are factors. In Tahiti, I saw 300+-pound people doing very active work (builders, fishermen, landscapers, etc.) Of course, everyone in Tahiti is the descendant of someone who was able to survive a thousand-mile sea voyage in a scantily provisioned canoe. T. Two cross-posted threads in the same day, and you wander into MFW with jpegs. You feeling lonely, Igor? Dally > Two cross-posted threads in the same day, and you wander into MFW with > jpegs. You feeling lonely, Igor? This bodyfat question bothered me for 2-3 weeks. The articles I started reading after my dad's bad blood glucose numbers. I will probably post more. i > Two cross-posted threads in the same day, and you wander into MFW with > jpegs. You feeling lonely, Igor? Did you feel lonely when you wandered here with your jpegs several days ago? i > Before people start flaming me without thinking, let me preface this > excerpt from a study with this. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > read this and weep... http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/paed/medical_education/postgraduate/endocrine_metaboli sm/pathogenesis_genetics_obesity.htm > ``Studies in twins, adoptees and families indicate that as much as 80% > of the variance in the body mass index is attributable to genetic [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > genes cause rare, recessive, syndromic forms of obesity, associated > with multiple endocrine abnormalities. '' |
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