Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsLow CarbWeightWatchers
WeightAdviser.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / August 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

McDonald's Diet (www.burgerdiet.net)

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
McMatthew - 27 Jul 2004 10:50 GMT
Hi everybody,

I guess you all know more about dieting than I.

Feeling chellenged by Morgan Spurlock's documentary "Super Size Me", I
embarked on a McDonald's only diet two weeks ago. So far, I've lost nearly 2
kg and find it quite easy to keep my calorie intake low.

Apart from the fact that the food and the nutrition facts are readily
available, I find that it keeps me full surprisingly long. Especially once I
got used to smaller portions.

I would not recommend this to anybody... but if you're interested, have a
look at my website www.burgerdiet.net.

I wish you all success with your diets.

Matthew
Ignoramus25231 - 27 Jul 2004 11:42 GMT
You really need to start eating some vegetables, regardless of your
weight loss, you are messing yourself up if you do not eat them. Pill
popping is not a substutute. McD offers salads, please order them once
in a while. Otherwise, sure you can lose weight on this diet. Much of
what you eat is basically garbage. You can live on that, provided that
you also get some vegetables, even though your die is not optimal it's
going to be good enough if you make some changes.

i
Crafting Mom - 27 Jul 2004 14:59 GMT
>Apart from the fact that the food and the nutrition facts are readily
>available, I find that it keeps me full surprisingly long. Especially once I
>got used to smaller portions.

Y'know, most people would assume that I would be the first person to
rail against such an idea.  But I know people who are slim and fit, and
they eat pretty much nothing BUT junk food.  They just aren't seen
stuffing their faces every time they get up off their chairs.  Decrease
frequency of eating and sure enough, it's possible to eat any darned
thing you please :)  Go Figure ;-)

Crafting Mom
YMMV etc etc JMHO
Matty - 27 Jul 2004 15:38 GMT
> >Apart from the fact that the food and the nutrition facts are readily
> >available, I find that it keeps me full surprisingly long. Especially once I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Crafting Mom
> YMMV etc etc JMHO

I like the articles that Rob C. @ cockeyed.com writes and the goofy things
he and his friends do. This is a little off-topic, but he did an experiment
about eating out for 1 month:

http://www.cockeyed.com/science/eating_out/mar1.html

He spent like $600 eating out vs. a little over $300 buying groceries. Even
going the fast food diet route, for one person it'd work out to around
$13-$15/day(around $3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch, & $5 for dinner, roughly)
x 30 days = $390. Buying groceries & eating out a couple of times for one
month would work out to around $200-$225(assuming Michigan grocery prices,
Rob lives out in California where groceries are a little more expensive).

Whenever we go on vacation and have to eat out at every meal, it gets
sickening, usually by the 3rd day. Couldn't imagine eating out every meal in
order to lose weight...

Matty
Annabel Smyth - 27 Jul 2004 16:31 GMT
>Whenever we go on vacation and have to eat out at every meal, it gets
>sickening, usually by the 3rd day. Couldn't imagine eating out every meal in
>order to lose weight...

For that very reason, we try to go self-catering when possible.  A
nuisance to have to cook, but at least you don't have to eat restaurant
food every day.

Mind you, in the USA the portions are so huge that if you had some means
of heating them up, like a microwave oven, in the hotel room, you'd
never need to eat out more than once every two or three days!
Signature

Annabel Smyth                   mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
                               http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

Tulip Tracy - 27 Jul 2004 21:32 GMT
It can be tough but it can definitley be done. McDonald's has some
healthy salads that I get when I need something quick and cheap and
didn't bring my lunch to work.

I heard about a few other people that ate at McD's and lost weight,
which speaks a lot to the validity of Spurlock's "diet" during Super
Size Me. One of them, Chazz Weaver, is actually a physical trainer.
<http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040727/latu018_1.html>

> > >Apart from the fact that the food and the nutrition facts are readily
> > >available, I find that it keeps me full surprisingly long. Especially
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Matty
Lictor - 03 Aug 2004 12:44 GMT
> Y'know, most people would assume that I would be the first person to
> rail against such an idea.  But I know people who are slim and fit, and
> they eat pretty much nothing BUT junk food.  They just aren't seen
> stuffing their faces every time they get up off their chairs.  Decrease
> frequency of eating and sure enough, it's possible to eat any darned
> thing you please :)  Go Figure ;-)

Actually, if you take the hunger/satiety road like I did, it's *easier* to
do on stuff like McDonald... At least as a starter to get proper feelings. I
wouldn't eat there daily, because I just don't see the point, but over than
that, I don't see why you should automatically get obese from eating there.
Some people manage very well to get obese on healthy food too... Worse, some
people get obese from light fat free/sugar free food... Anyway, it's easier
because :
- Dense food tends to trigger more clear cut satiety response. Getting the
clues that you have eaten enough from low density food (fat free veggies...)
is very subtle. On the other hand, while eating French fries or dense
chocolate brownies, the satiety feeling is so clear cut it feels like a
punch in the gut, just from one mouthfull to the
next-I'm-not-hungry-anymore.
- Satiety has a lot to do with how satisfied you are with the taste (that's
the psychosensorial part). At first, the food tastes great, then you being
to notice you don't like that taste that much, that there is too much salt,
too much fat... It's easier to perceive on food you are very familiar with
and like. If you were to try it on tripe, you would likely not notice much
variation : it tastes awfull, it tastes a bit more awfull... Eating the food
with which you are familliar, and in a monotonous way can be a great way to
notice that satiety feeling. I initially trained by eating the same unique
food for lunch for several days. First French fries, then cakes, then
cheese... It's a good way, if a little boring, to find your mark, because
you become very sensible to the small variations that come with satiety from
such a monotonous food...
Mary M - Ohio - 03 Aug 2004 13:32 GMT
> - Dense food tends to trigger more clear cut satiety response. Getting the
> clues that you have eaten enough from low density food (fat free veggies...)
> is very subtle. On the other hand, while eating French fries or dense
> chocolate brownies, the satiety feeling is so clear cut it feels like a
> punch in the gut, just from one mouthfull to the
> next-I'm-not-hungry-anymore.

This may be your experience, but certainly not mine. Back in the day, I could eat
French fries and brownies until I was physically ill, and then eat some more. Some
people do not get the satiety feeling from junk food. I never, ever did.

> - Satiety has a lot to do with how satisfied you are with the taste (that's
> the psychosensorial part). At first, the food tastes great, then you being
> to notice you don't like that taste that much, that there is too much salt,
> too much fat...

That was never my experience with the "high-satiety" foods you mention. Brownies or
French fries only made me hungrier, never fuller.

Mary M
325-154-148
Ignoramus7404 - 03 Aug 2004 13:51 GMT
> This may be your experience, but certainly not mine. Back in the
> day, I could eat French fries and brownies until I was physically
> ill, and then eat some more. Some people do not get the satiety
> feeling from junk food. I never, ever did.

I personally do not get a satiety feeling from anything except fat.

If I eat a bunch of fat, of any sort, I may get a feeling that I
simply do not want to eat anymore. Lean meat, to a lesser extent.

Everything else does not give me the feeling satiety, I simply know,
intellectually, where to stop, and can stop. (portion control)

All commercial/prepared food, including McDonalds, besides being a
ripoff financially, is made so that it is hard to stop eating it, for
obvious profit reasons. Of all commercial food, McDonalds is quite
possibly the better food.

McDonalds serves all kinds of foods, sundae, brownies and french fries
being the worse example, and hamburgers being better examples, as far
as my own diet preferences go.

i
Lictor - 03 Aug 2004 20:10 GMT
> This may be your experience, but certainly not mine. Back in the day, I could eat
> French fries and brownies until I was physically ill, and then eat some more. Some
> people do not get the satiety feeling from junk food. I never, ever did.

Oh, that was my experience too, before I seriously tried to listen to what
my body was trying to say... There was a time when I could eat a 600g
(1.3lbs) industrial pound cake at 4pm and *still* eat a dinner after that
(or throw up to make some room and have dinner anyway, or a second cake plus
dinner or something crazy like that).
Besides, I don't think it's a matter of junk food or not... I wouldn't
consider cheese or nuts junk food either, and I get the exact same feeling
with them... This is an experiment and exercise I have done with plenty of
food during my "training" : French fries, cheese, cakes, cookies, chocolate,
nuts... Some felt stronger than others (cake was especially impressive, one
mouthfull to the next and *poof* felt the cake uneappealing), but there was
always a point when I could detect I had had enough...

> That was never my experience with the "high-satiety" foods you mention. Brownies or
> French fries only made me hungrier, never fuller.

Well, if it was so simple, there would not be any overweight people, right?
;) It actually very easy to set your mind in such a way that you completely
wreck your regulation systems. So easy it's frightening. When I think I
could eat *600g* of high calorie stuff (I mean, cake like that is around 500
cal per 100g - that's 3000 cals in one go!) and only feel a slight stomach
unease, it sounds crazy. Nowadays, if I try to eat a single waffle after my
dinner when I'm not hungry anymore, I will just find it unappealing. If I do
force myself to eat it, I will feel nauseated and heavy. The brain is indeed
a frightening and powerful thing...
I do some talks with my nutritionist about other patients. She has had
people who take a long while to recover proper feelings. One of the women
she's treating is only beginning to feel when she's hungry, after one year
of trying. But she still cannot experience satiety fully...
Cplus - 27 Jul 2004 19:22 GMT
> Hi everybody,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Matthew

You've obviously have missed the total point of his documentary.
Avatar - 27 Jul 2004 19:41 GMT
>> Hi everybody,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>
>You've obviously have missed the total point of his documentary.

Bush is to blame?
---

Remove whiz to email

----
McMatthew - 27 Jul 2004 19:57 GMT
> >You've obviously have missed the total point of his documentary.

So what do you think IS the point of the movie???

Matthew
Avatar - 27 Jul 2004 20:00 GMT
>> >You've obviously have missed the total point of his documentary.
>
>So what do you think IS the point of the movie???
>
>Matthew

No I didn't. I commented on someone else saying that someone else
missed the point of the documentary.
---

Remove whiz to email

----
Ignoramus25231 - 27 Jul 2004 20:03 GMT
What would be greatly interesting is to measure your blood lipids
prior to and post that one month.

i
Helena - 29 Jul 2004 17:15 GMT
> So what do you think IS the point of the movie???
>
> Matthew

The point and what was delivered are two different things-I'm still up
in arms as to what the real point was-although I found some humor in
it I was left wondering if he wanted to tell a story or document it.
Mary M - Ohio - 27 Jul 2004 19:54 GMT
The old-grease taste notwithstanding, can you really enjoy such preservative-filled,
sodium-soaked manufactured "food"? There is nothing to compare to the taste of real
food -- fresh vegetables bursting with flavor on their own and not drowned in salty
or gloppy sauces -- fresh grilled chicken breast that hasn't been soaked in a salty
brine -- sweet crispy or creamy fruits that are satisfying and good for you. Most of
the foods at fast food restaurants are so far from the original source that they are
nearly unrecognizable -- do yourself a favor and spare your body from McDonald's.

Mary M
325-160-148

> Hi everybody,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Matthew
Avatar - 27 Jul 2004 20:12 GMT
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:54:14 -0400, "Mary M - Ohio"

>Mary M
>325-160-148

Damn! you are half the woman you once were!

I salute you!
---

Remove whiz to email

----
Mary M - Ohio - 27 Jul 2004 20:34 GMT
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:54:14 -0400, "Mary M - Ohio"
> >Mary M
> >325-160-148
> Damn! you are half the woman you once were!
> I salute you!

Thank you -- 100 lbs off for 19 years -- 70-75 more lbs off since May 2002. For photo
evidence see http://www.zorn.co.nz/mary/

Mary
Avatar - 27 Jul 2004 20:46 GMT
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:54:14 -0400, "Mary M - Ohio"
>> >Mary M
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Mary

You look wonderful. Shows that hard work pays off and it is all worth
it. Kudos.
---

Remove whiz to email

----
Annabel Smyth - 28 Jul 2004 11:10 GMT
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:54:14 -0400, "Mary M - Ohio"
>> >Mary M
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>2002. For photo
>evidence see http://www.zorn.co.nz/mary/

Well done!
Signature

Annabel Smyth                   mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
                               http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

Jeff Carlyle - 29 Jul 2004 14:59 GMT
While I think it would be ill-advised to eat only one type of food
every day, there is nothing wrong with having McDonald's from time to
time. I like the taste of their french fries and chicken sandwich and
its a nice comfort food for me. You can still maintain a healthy diet
even if you give in to the ocassional Big Mac craving. Just be sure to
get lots of fruits and veggies and hit the gym.

> The old-grease taste notwithstanding, can you really enjoy such preservative-filled,
> sodium-soaked manufactured "food"? There is nothing to compare to the taste of real
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> >
> > Matthew
aleroona - 29 Jul 2004 20:41 GMT
> While I think it would be ill-advised to eat only one type of food
> every day, there is nothing wrong with having McDonald's from time to
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> > >
> > > Matthew

I agree with you completely.  The same holds true not just for fast
food, but for all food.

Matthew -- I'd be really interested in seeing how your little
experiment ends.  Keep us posted, and good luck!!
Mack - 31 Jul 2004 01:16 GMT
I don't see the big deal of eating fast food. Why do ppl degrade it
that much.Because it makes us fat. Not really,you have to control of
what you put in your mouth.I ate mcdonalds almost every single day and
lost 80 pounds in 3 months.I'll tell you how I did it.I ate once a
day,around 9pm,i ordered a either a bigmac meal,or mcchicken
meal,supersized,but i drank diet coke instead of the regular
coke.That's roughly 1000 calories. I did absolutely no real
excercise.Sure i may have walked here or there,or moved quite a bit a
day,but it's not like i got my water bottle and went for a run or a
walk on a path.I just had bloodwork done a few days ago,my cholesterol
is now in the normal range,my blood pressure is amazing,and everything
else is "perfect" according to the doctor.Hmmm yeah mcdonalds is
really that bad.

It matters how many calories you eat.Hell if you like the taste of
vegetables,or fruits go for it,personally,i dont like to eat fruits or
vegetables.But i do get my nutrients from all the different types of
vitamins i take in the morning.And no my metabolism has no
decresed.Since the end of my 3 months mcdonalds diet,i have been
eating around 3000 calories a day,and weight training for about 45
minutes a day+ a bike ride around my community,and i have not gained a
single pound.I'm still losing about 2 pounds of pure fat a week.My
resting heart rate is in the normal range.I weighed about 270 lbs,now
im about 170 and i'm cut.Thanks mcdonalds.I liked the food i ate.Sure
i starved myself during the day,but it was so easy because i knew in
the evening a nice bigmac meal was waiting for me.Sure it was salty
and it had alot of fat,but it tasted so goddamn good.And i slept like
a baby feeling satisfied and full.

I think the ppl that say how could you eat such salty fatty stuff are
just jealous maybe that they can't eat that stuff bcuz if they do,they
cant control their appetite and end up gaining weight.So by telling
others how could u eat this,its bad for you,they are actually trying
to make themselves feel better that others cant enjoy it.Greedy
bastards.We only live once,I'm not going deprive myself of
anything.But the secret is moderation.It's not all or nothing.That's
why "diets" fail.Ppl either completely give up the foods they love
completely until they snap.Then they say this diet doesnt work.That's
bull.Any diet out there works,u just have to eat less.

Ppl who say atkins doesnt work are the ones who failed it.Atkins works
because it supresses appetite because of ketosis.But theres nothing
magical about it.it works if u keep ur calories low.High carb works if
u keep ur calories low.Warrior diet works if u keep ur calories low.
The zone works if u keep ur calories low.See the pattern.Calories is
the key.Excercise burns calories.U can eat 3 pizzas a day and lose a
shitload of fat if u excercise like a mofo.

Mack 5'9 male
270/170/180
started march 20/04
Mary M - Ohio - 31 Jul 2004 13:39 GMT
> I think the ppl that say how could you eat such salty fatty stuff are
> just jealous maybe that they can't eat that stuff bcuz if they do,they
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> completely until they snap.Then they say this diet doesnt work.That's
> bull.Any diet out there works,u just have to eat less.

Well since I said that McDonald's was substandard taste-wise, I'll rise to your
bait -- I certainly am not "jealous" of anyone who eats that crap -- what a childish
joke. Yes, we only live once and that's why I decided to quit eating substandard
junk -- so that I could thoroughly enjoy that life. And I haven't "snapped" in the 19
years that I have been eating healthy, so your theory is incorrect. I could happily
live for the rest of my life without ever eating or even contemplating eating
McDonald's.

Mary
325-160-148
Mack - 31 Jul 2004 22:42 GMT
> > I think the ppl that say how could you eat such salty fatty stuff are
> > just jealous maybe that they can't eat that stuff bcuz if they do,they
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Mary
> 325-160-148

Obviously you're having trouble understanding what i wrote.I clearly
said "I THINK" which means it was just an opinion, thus it is not a
theory. It was only my opinion and what I think. I did not say that
was indeed a fact.Everybody is different,I write what I think,and you
write what you think,of course we may very well disagree on certain
things,or see things differently,that's no problem.I was not attacking
you or anybody for that matter.And I'm really happy for your progress
and I'm sure your hard work really paid off.Hey if it works for you
then what the hell,keep it up,good job.I know that losing weight is
often quite hard to achieve and keepin it off is even harder,so we are
all here to help each other.The whole point of my post was to say that
eating "junk food" is not always bad.The junk food image is wayyyy
overrated IMO,it's not as bad as ppl make it.You have to know whats in
the food you're eating,you can't blame anything on junk food.Those ppl
that sue these fast food joints are just after money that's it.I mean
you can make burgers with the exact same contents at home,using
readily available foods in your fridge,and what if you gain weight,who
is there to sue? You can also be eating the healthiest , most natural
foods like fresh chicken breasts,vegetables,fruits,and still gain
weight.What it comes down to is calories,that's what some ppl still
dont want to understand.They think if i eat pizza i'm gonna get
fat.That's not true,if you eat TOO MUCH pizza,you will gain weight,if
you eat pizza moderately,you will not gain weight.Sure make your own
pizza,eat as much as you would eat at the restaurant,will you still
gain weight.Of course you will because of all the calories you're
ingesting.
Mary M - Ohio - 01 Aug 2004 21:18 GMT
> > > I think the ppl that say how could you eat such salty fatty stuff are
> > > just jealous maybe that they can't eat that stuff bcuz if they do,they
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> gain weight.Of course you will because of all the calories you're
> ingesting.

I understand all you say -- I just tend to get a little jumpy when people
say that it's OK for people to eat every and any food in moderation -- for
some like me that just isn't true, like the way alcoholics cannot have "just
a little" or "just one shot." So it was with me and sugar, which I have not
had in 19 years (and like some recovering alcoholics I probably can be a
little oversensitive/emotional on the issue and tend to jump in front of
bullets, because I know how important it was in regaining my health and
truly my life. How could a 325-lb. 23-year-old expect not to keep gaining
and gaining on the same old habits?) And the blessing is that no longer do I
not crave that stuff anymore, it is actually a bit nauseating to even think
of -- that's how far my health habits have been ingrained. Well enough
rambling. You have done very very well on your progress too and I salute
you.

Mary
Heywood Mogroot - 02 Aug 2004 04:14 GMT
> and gaining on the same old habits?) And the blessing is that no longer do I
> not crave that stuff anymore, it is actually a bit nauseating to even think
> of -- that's how far my health habits have been ingrained.

my pov is I had enough of that crap when I was getting fat to need to
eat it now. It didn't do any good for me then so why would I want to
eat it now?

Not wanting it in the first place is the easiest way to win the
battle.

I can fit semi-healthy stuff into my current WOE, like Quiznos, but
obviously even that is showing some disrespect to the plan.

"anything in moderation" does work for many people, but simplifying
one's diet by just categorically removing crap also works, and is less
hassle really.

As long as nobody is pointing a gun to my head I'll be able to pass on
ice cream for instance. BTDT, as it were, and a half cup serving of
ice cream isn't really worth it, is it?
Woody - 02 Aug 2004 20:04 GMT
Good job Matthew. Here is my take on the diet:

www.liquidcalories.com

Woody

> > and gaining on the same old habits?) And the blessing is that no longer do I
> > not crave that stuff anymore, it is actually a bit nauseating to even think
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> ice cream for instance. BTDT, as it were, and a half cup serving of
> ice cream isn't really worth it, is it?
Mary M - Ohio - 03 Aug 2004 13:18 GMT
> my pov is I had enough of that crap when I was getting fat to need to
> eat it now. It didn't do any good for me then so why would I want to
> eat it now?
>
> Not wanting it in the first place is the easiest way to win the
> battle.

This has been the best part to me -- not wanting it anymore.

> I can fit semi-healthy stuff into my current WOE, like Quiznos, but
> obviously even that is showing some disrespect to the plan.

I agree -- I still have my few

> "anything in moderation" does work for many people, but simplifying
> one's diet by just categorically removing crap also works, and is less
> hassle really.

I think so too -- and I do think that "anything in moderation" does work for many
people, just like many people don't think twice about whether they are drinking
alcohol or not -- but for others who (physically, genetically) can't handle it, it is
a crucial issue in their lives, and they cannot have "just a little and then stop."

> As long as nobody is pointing a gun to my head I'll be able to pass on
> ice cream for instance. BTDT, as it were, and a half cup serving of
> ice cream isn't really worth it, is it?

Well you've just hit on one of the things I have trouble giving up -- I usually do
well but yes, I would say one-half cup would definitely be worth eating! :-) The way
I have solved the ice cream problem is to get single servings at ice cream places --
that way I don't have a half-gallon calling my name till it's gone. Allergic to milk
anyway so staying away from ice cream for the most part hasn't been too bad.

Mary
Ignoramus7404 - 03 Aug 2004 13:52 GMT
> I think so too -- and I do think that "anything in moderation" does
> work for many people, just like many people don't think twice about
> whether they are drinking alcohol or not -- but for others who
> (physically, genetically) can't handle it, it is a crucial issue in
> their lives, and they cannot have "just a little and then stop."

Moderation does not work for me where, say, sugar is concerned.

It works for me where other foods are concerned (mainly those I never
liked much, like potatoes).

Your idea that one can live a satisfying life without any added sugar,
was a good motivator for me initially.

i
janice - 03 Aug 2004 16:17 GMT
>Moderation does not work for me where, say, sugar is concerned.
>
>It works for me where other foods are concerned (mainly those I never
>liked much, like potatoes).

That seems fairly obvious to me.  I never give stomach space to foods
I don't like much.  If the world was made of black pudding I guess I'd
be cured of overeating for good:)

janice
233/181/133
Ignoramus7404 - 03 Aug 2004 16:28 GMT
>>Moderation does not work for me where, say, sugar is concerned.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I don't like much.  If the world was made of black pudding I guess I'd
> be cured of overeating for good:)

Good point. To be fair, moderation works for me even for some foods
that I like, for instance nuts or fruits. But I know that if I started
to eat sweets, it would be a quick slippery slope to overeating.

i
Aquarijen - 03 Aug 2004 17:53 GMT
> >>Moderation does not work for me where, say, sugar is concerned.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> i

If I am hungry in the afternoon and I have, say, a chocolate bar, I will
feel hungrier after consuming it than I was in the first place.  This
doesn't happen to me with fruits though.  I can eat fruit and be satisfied.
Now dried fruit *is* my candy.
-Jennifer
AmyGemini - 04 Aug 2004 14:53 GMT
Loved the site - very funny diary - Good Luck!
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2012 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.