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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / August 2004Afraid of saturated fat and cholesterol?
Then you may find this interesting: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cholesterol_myth_1.html I am still deciding which way the evidence points, but it appears that much of the recommendations against saturated fats are not based on any sort of valid evidence, but rather, on hypotheses and junk science. ====================================================================== ``As Table I shows, although subjects consumed cholesterol over a wide range, there was little or no difference in the levels of cholesterol in their blood and, thus, no relationship between the amount of cholesterol eaten and levels of blood cholesterol was found. Next, the scientists studied intakes of saturated fats but again they could find no relation. There is, in short, no suggestion of any relation between diet and the subsequent development of CHD in the study group. Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) carried a follow-up report that showed that dietary saturated fat reduced strokes. They cut cholesterol consumption by forty-two percent, saturated fat consumption by twenty-eight percent and total calories by twenty-one percent. Yet even then they didn't succeed. Blood cholesterol levels did fall, but by only a modest amount and, more importantly, coronary heart disease was unaffected. Its originators refer to the results as "disappointing" WHO European Coronary Prevention Study The results of the World Health Organisation's European Coronary Prevention Study were called "depressing" because once again no correlation between fats and heart disease was found. They had cut saturated fats down to only eight percent of calorie intake daily, yet in the UK section there were more deaths in the intervention group than in the control group. '' Well, only 20% of our total cholesterol is dietary, so it makes sense than changing eating habits won't impact total cholesterol greatly... 80% of it is built directly by the liver. If a person has no genetic trait towards builting excess cholesterol, it's unlikely that *any* diet will manage to offset the cholesterol balance. Like, my girlfriend is in that case. She takes the pill, she's still overweight, she had to stop exercising this year... But her cholesterol level is still great - her HDL is high, her total cholesterol is actually too low... I don't see the point of putting everyone on a low cholesterol diet when for a bunch of people, diet has nothing to do with their cholesterol values. As for people with high cholesterol, I still think that you can have better success with trying to work on these 80% of endogenous cholesterol. In my own experience, I didn't make much dietetary changes to get my cholesterol back to normal. The only changes were to remove most of the trans fats I was eating - other fats remained the same. Other than that, it was mostly exercising and losing weight. With a dietary only approach, I bet I would be on statins by now... > Well, only 20% of our total cholesterol is dietary, so it makes sense than > changing eating habits won't impact total cholesterol greatly... 80% of it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > everyone on a low cholesterol diet when for a bunch of people, diet has > nothing to do with their cholesterol values. All good points. Our body makes ten times more cholesterol than is the maximum recommended dietary allowance of it. http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T040800.asp > As for people with high cholesterol, I still think that you can have better > success with trying to work on these 80% of endogenous cholesterol. In my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > exercising and losing weight. With a dietary only approach, I bet I would be > on statins by now... So, is your cholesterol better now? My cholesterol is marginally better after dieting compared to right before dieting, but it was not terrible to begin with. What is most surprising is the fact that my cholesterol improved between 2000 and 2003, even as I gained weight and did not do much healthwise. It is possible that it is because I ate less prepackaged meals, due to having gotten married. BLOOD TEST, Dr. Wilson, Jan 2000 Total cholestoreol 227 HDL (Good chol.) 45, which is > 35, good LDL (Bad chol.) 108, which is < 130, good TSH, Thyroid Stim. Horm., 2.8 As of Jan 3, 2004: 2003 2004 1 YEAR AGO NOW Total 177 175 LDL 94 102 HDL 41 56 Triglyceride 207 83 Fasting glucose 91 90 > So, is your cholesterol better now? Mostly, yes, except for HDL which is still low (around 0.35g, but stable). But LDL went from 1.8g down to 1g in 6 months. Triglycerids went from 3.3g to 1.13g. According to my nutritionnist, HDL should take off last, since by reducing total cholesterol and keeping HDL constant, I'm actually increasing it in proportion, which is already a good point. Still not perfect results, but they're improving. Besides, my glycemia was my main worry, not the cholesterol, so this reduction is merely a nice side effect :) >> So, is your cholesterol better now? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but they're improving. Besides, my glycemia was my main worry, not the > cholesterol, so this reduction is merely a nice side effect :) Very dramatic improvements in triglycerides and LDL, congratulations. Would it be proper to say that this is due to better control of your blood sugar, or is your blood sugar still just as bad as before? My dad was recently officially diagnosed with diabetes. i > Would it be proper to say that this is due to better control of your > blood sugar, or is your blood sugar still just as bad as before? No, blood sugar was the most impressive. I was diagnosed with 1.79g/l fasting glucose with an A1c at 8.1%. Then, I was started on Prandin, which I took for almost three months (hated that stuff). Last results I had, my FG is at 1.01g/l (I'm fairly constant around that value it seems, had three labs in a row at that value), and my A1c was at 5.8% (45 days after stopping the Prandin). I'm scheduled for another test, but I have had an informal testing (using a meter, I don't have one) and results sound good. Random evening glucose was at 1.01g/l. I also did an informal post prandial 2h after an English brunch (scones, muffins, tart, marmalade... - that about as highly glycemic as I will go without forcing myself), and it was at 1.01g/l too. Hopefully, my next A1c should be a bit lower than the previous one. Considering I don't eat in any special way (well, I *do* eat a bunch less than before, but I'm not low carbing or anything), it's rather good results. I did lose weight since the diagnostic, around 52lbs though. And I walk 6km around 4-5 times a week, as fast as I can. I did build a lot of "walker" muscles :) > My dad was recently officially diagnosed with diabetes. Good luck to your dad! Everyone is different, so I hope he finds a way to control his diabete. >> Would it be proper to say that this is due to better control of your >> blood sugar, or is your blood sugar still just as bad as before? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > labs in a row at that value), and my A1c was at 5.8% (45 days after stopping > the Prandin). A very impressive result Lictor. > I'm scheduled for another test, but I have had an informal testing > (using a meter, I don't have one) and results sound good. Random [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > times a week, as fast as I can. I did build a lot of "walker" > muscles :) I am so happy for you. >> My dad was recently officially diagnosed with diabetes. > > Good luck to your dad! Everyone is different, so I hope he finds a way to > control his diabete. I hope that he gets off his a.s and does at least something. i > I hope that he gets off his a.s and does at least something. Well, the problem is that sometimes the doctor makes the diet sound much worse than it really is. I mean, he told me I had to lost 100lbs ASAP. That I would have to give up all carbs and fats. That's a pretty frightening picture. If I had listened to him, I would have gone for a proteidic diet, and I would have probably given up by now. I don't know why doctors think they have to scare you like that... I think that's a huge psychological mistake. All they manage to do is make the task seem impossible to tackle. The truth is that my FG was within the norm very quickly, probably thanks to Prandin (at the minimum dose) but also to weight loss and walking. My results were already improving with a mere 5% weight loss. I'm only halfway to a normal weight, and things have really improved a bunch. Even the knee aches have disappeared. And I still eat perfectly normally. Actually, I take more pleasure in eating now than I used to, because I'm actually paying attention to what I eat instead of swallowing it. Your rather can achieve good results with a small weight loss, and simple portion control. Or going low carb, since it seems this work for so many people. That would still be a lot better than doing nothing at all. The key is that he doesn't need to do anything drastic. Diabete seems rather sensitive to even moderate weight loss. Likewise, he doesn't need to job 10km a day. My *walks* did me a whole lot of good. >> I hope that he gets off his a.s and does at least something. > > Well, the problem is that sometimes the doctor makes the diet sound much > worse than it really is. I mean, he told me I had to lost 100lbs ASAP. That > I would have to give up all carbs and fats. That's a pretty frightening > picture. If I had listened to him, I would have gone for a proteidic diet, Scary stuff. Both my dad and mom realize that they need to find a good endocrinologist, that's the task for now. > and I would have probably given up by now. I don't know why doctors think > they have to scare you like that... I think that's a huge psychological > mistake. All they manage to do is make the task seem impossible to tackle. > The truth is that my FG was within the norm very quickly, probably thanks to > Prandin (at the minimum dose) but also to weight loss and walking. My > results were already improving with a mere 5% weight loss. I am not a diabetic like my dad (yet), but I also saw several problems go away with a mere 10 lbs weight loss. > I'm only halfway to a normal weight, and things have really improved > a bunch. Even the knee aches have disappeared. And I still eat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > moderate weight loss. Likewise, he doesn't need to job 10km a > day. My *walks* did me a whole lot of good. Well, yes, getting a 20% calorie deficit, dropping most junk carbs, and walking one hour a day would go quite far. He is not too averse to walking, but again, many beautiful words can be said, but the key is actually doing something every day. i >Well, yes, getting a 20% calorie deficit, dropping most junk carbs, >and walking one hour a day would go quite far. He is not too averse to >walking, but again, many beautiful words can be said, but the key is >actually doing something every day. Buy him a pet dog - then he'd *have* to walk it! Or persuade him to commit to looking after a neighbour's dog while they are at work.  SignatureAnnabel Smyth mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 7 August 2004 - for a limited time, be bored by my holiday snaps! >>Well, yes, getting a 20% calorie deficit, dropping most junk carbs, >>and walking one hour a day would go quite far. He is not too averse to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Buy him a pet dog - then he'd *have* to walk it! Or persuade him to > commit to looking after a neighbour's dog while they are at work. he is allergic to dogs... we tried adopting various strays 20 years ago, the results were disastrous. i > Both my dad and mom realize that they need to find a good > endocrinologist, that's the task for now. You also need a good dietitian. A real one I mean, not one that push a xeroxed paper at you and tell you to follow the instructions. One that is able to listen to your dad and work something around his wishes and habits. One that has some notions of common human psychology too. With the rise of obesity, dietitians have become as common as lawyers, but the total amount of good dietitians seems to be going ever lower... > I am not a diabetic like my dad (yet), but I also saw several problems > go away with a mere 10 lbs weight loss. Yup, it's pretty impressive how quickly the body can recover once you let even a little presure off it. I think the key is to step very small steps rather than a single far away one. And to find enough at each step to be happy about climbing it. Lost 5 pounds - FG is getting lower. Lost 5 more pounds - joint aches are getting better, post prandial is improving. And so on. > Well, yes, getting a 20% calorie deficit, dropping most junk carbs, > and walking one hour a day would go quite far. He is not too averse to > walking, but again, many beautiful words can be said, but the key is > actually doing something every day. I suspect *even* just walking would already do wonders... Yes, it's hard to get started. The problem is that he is the only person in the world able to take that decision for himself. >> Both my dad and mom realize that they need to find a good >> endocrinologist, that's the task for now. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > With the rise of obesity, dietitians have become as common as lawyers, but > the total amount of good dietitians seems to be going ever lower... I do not even know how to look for a good dietitian, like you said, not an airhead who gives out xeroxed papers. >> I am not a diabetic like my dad (yet), but I also saw several problems >> go away with a mere 10 lbs weight loss. > > Yup, it's pretty impressive how quickly the body can recover once you let > even a little presure off it. Yes. Hypertension, heartburn etc, went away almost immediately. > I think the key is to step very small steps rather than a single far away > one. And to find enough at each step to be happy about climbing it. Lost 5 > pounds - FG is getting lower. Lost 5 more pounds - joint aches are getting > better, post prandial is improving. And so on. For me, my weight loss was a journey, I started out completely uninformed, just eating less and in defined portions and junking sugar and not eating after 6. Then I started learning and reading etc. >> Well, yes, getting a 20% calorie deficit, dropping most junk carbs, >> and walking one hour a day would go quite far. He is not too averse to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yes, it's hard to get started. The problem is that he is the only person in > the world able to take that decision for himself. yes... you know, I love my dad, I hope that he lives a long and happy life to old age. i > I do not even know how to look for a good dietitian, like you said, > not an airhead who gives out xeroxed papers. Well, I mostly found mine from a book I had read on the no-dieting approach. Several like minded people have created an association which has a site, and a list of doctors (dietitians, nutritionists, psychologists) that have signed a charter I found I could agree to. I don't know if the US distinguishes between dietitians (Master degree) and nutritionist (real doctor) like we do. Of course, it's French only, so I guess it's not helping ;) But maybe there are similar associations in the US. I guess diabetic associations maintain a list of good dietitians. Or even an association of people with eating disorders. You mostly want to avoid the dietitians who only deal with high revenue 30s who want to fit in their bikini for the summer... Or you can try to find like-minded people in your area who already know a good one. People on usenet in your area might have had good experiences, you could always check alt.support.diabete. If you do happen to know a really good doctor, even in an unrelated field, it's sometimes worth asking. Many tend to maintain networks with equally good doctors. Otherwise, it's pure trial and error. > Yes. Hypertension, heartburn etc, went away almost immediately. I wish I could check hypertension. The white coat syndrom is back full blown, and whenever I go near a BP measure devices, my heart beat goes up at least 20 points :( This makes getting an accurate BP extremelly hard. Last time, my BP was actually *lower* after being on the bicycle for 10 minutes, because it had somehow relaxed me... [ thanks for your suggestions on finding a nutritionist ] >> Yes. Hypertension, heartburn etc, went away almost immediately. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > time, my BP was actually *lower* after being on the bicycle for 10 minutes, > because it had somehow relaxed me... Here in the US, we have blood pressure measuring devices tat can be used free in any drugstore. We have one conveniently located in the building where I work. i > Here in the US, we have blood pressure measuring devices tat can be > used free in any drugstore. We have one conveniently located in the > building where I work. So do we. They're actually worse than a doctor. They try to give out a lots of feedback to show that the device is working, and that very feedback is making things even worse for me. Besides, unlike a real doctor, they are very slow at getting my proper BP (probably because it's jumping all over the scale), so I can feel the thing pumping up and down and blindly trying to catch my pulse. Last time I tried one, by the end of the exam, I was sweating so hard I was dripping to the floor. I felt completely drained and exhausted from the exam. I probably got a whole workout from it. :p |
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