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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / November 2003The Two Pound diet
"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it does seem to make sense. Anybody tried this diet? Did you have some success? How was it getting started? How did it go over time? -- Mike >"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", >http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it >does seem to make sense. Anybody tried this diet? Did you have some success? >How was it getting started? How did it go over time? I initially thought it was an interesting idea. However, there is a lot of opposition to it, especially in this newsgroup. Having successfully dieted in a calorie-controlled way, I would agree with the people who are against this two pound diet.  SignatureMai Vue >I initially thought it was an interesting idea. However, there is a lot of >opposition to it, especially in this newsgroup. Yes, it does not fit the "party line" and so be it. Atkins fails 99 out of 100 in less than two years. This newsgroup is a Usenet history of people who pass through and fail on low-carb diets. > Having successfully dieted >in a calorie-controlled way, I would agree with the people who are against >this two pound diet. You disagree with success? Who says you can't low-carb and eat only two pounds. Btw, did you know that there are four regular posters here who are on the 2PDiet but because of idiots like you, who chastise it, they refuse to come out and endorse it? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Yes, it does not fit the "party line" and so be it. Atkins fails 99 >out of 100 in less than two years. This newsgroup is a Usenet history >of people who pass through and fail on low-carb diets. Where did you get that stat? ~Kat "Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer >>Yes, it does not fit the "party line" and so be it. Atkins fails 99 >>out of 100 in less than two years. This newsgroup is a Usenet history >>of people who pass through and fail on low-carb diets. > >Where did you get that stat? NIH http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >>>Yes, it does not fit the "party line" and so be it. Atkins fails 99 >>>out of 100 in less than two years. This newsgroup is a Usenet history [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >NIH ya ... rrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. ~Kat "Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer >>"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", >>http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >opposition to it, especially in this newsgroup. Having successfully dieted >in a calorie-controlled way, I'm not endorsing or criticizing the diet but I would almost bet that if everybody here who is currently in "diet mode" and losing 1-2 lbs per week, including low carbers, were to weigh their food but still do everything else as they have been doing, (count calories, carbs, or whatever) they would find out that they are eating around 2lbs of food per day. An exception being those on "volumetrics" type plans. So before you slam the diet, make sure you aren't already on it. And to anticipate being asked to do it myself. I'm not currently in "diet mode" and I know I'm eating more then 2lbs per day. (and if Mu doesn't like that he can go blow cheese :) SignatureRon Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can figure out my email address >I'm not endorsing or criticizing the 2PDiet but I would almost bet that >if everybody here who is currently in "diet mode" and losing 1-2 lbs >per week, including low carbers, were to weigh their food but still do >everything else as they have been doing, (count calories, carbs, or >whatever) they would find out that they are eating around 2lbs of food >per day. Which is one of th reasons the 2PDiet exists. It is an educational tool as well as a weigh management one. >So before you slam the diet, make sure you aren't already on it. lol http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >And to anticipate being asked to do it myself. I'm not currently in >"diet mode" and I know I'm eating more then 2lbs per day. (and if Mu >doesn't like that he can go blow cheese :) How much more cheese, er, food, are you eating? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >I'm not endorsing or criticizing the diet but I would almost bet that >if everybody here who is currently in "diet mode" and losing 1-2 lbs >per week, including low carbers, were to weigh their food but still do >everything else as they have been doing, (count calories, carbs, or >whatever) they would find out that they are eating around 2lbs of food >per day. An exception being those on "volumetrics" type plans. From time to time I weigh what I eat (filling my plate the same as usual and *then* weighing it), out of curiousity, and what I eat is often 2 pounds to 2.5 pounds (it's often 2.5 pounds on days when I eat cucumbers - a very heavy food with less calories) >"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", >http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it >does seem to make sense. Anybody tried this diet? Hundreds and the rate of failure, that is coming off eating two pounds of food, in both Dr. Chung's experience, and mine, and others, is that more people, by far, stay with lowered food consumptions than on any other diet plan we have found. >Did you have some success? I have maintained a 45 pound weight loss. >How was it getting started? Very simple. No changes to anything you are eating (you can "clean" your diet up later after you get used to eating less) just slowly reducing volumes. > How did it go over time? -- Mike I learned that my body, although I am very active, can do very nicely on two pounds of food. My body has learned to eat less without any feelings of severe hunger or cravings. Think of yourself as a car whose engine still produces the same horsepower, or more, on much, much less fuel. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you feeling faint or have the shakes??? -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", > >http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you feeling >faint or have the shakes??? Nope - he's promoting his diet... that's why he's not being rude or obnoxious. He and his new little sock puppet MT are out to promote more of Dr. Chung's madness. Once again, we'll be infiltrated by the scimedcard groupie trolls. >Nope - he's promoting his diet... that's why he's not being rude or >obnoxious. I don't have a diet. It's Chung's and it is so by contract, btw. >He and his new little sock puppet MT are out to promote more of Dr. >Chung's madness. Once again, we'll be infiltrated by the scimedcard >groupie trolls. Who all speak right over your pointy little head, JJ. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >>Nope - he's promoting his diet... that's why he's not being rude or >>obnoxious. > > I don't have a diet. It's Chung's and it is so by contract, btw. What a perfectly silly thing to say. "By contract..." as though a superficial idea like "Don't eat more than 2 pounds of food a day" could be "owned" by contract. Oh, can't forget the highly technical part of it, "Use common sense." Right, Any lawyer would defend that. I guess nobody else can call himself "fishbone" because it's yours "by contract." Pastorio > >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you feeling > >faint or have the shakes??? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Chung's madness. Once again, we'll be infiltrated by the scimedcard > groupie trolls. Listen, bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a hundred pounds. The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny chick telling us what we can or can't do. I can't believe you had the gall to tell me that I wasn't ready to diet (or whatever stupid thing you said). Why don't you go to the "skinny a.s holes without a life forum" and blow people sh.t over there. In case people don't know, Jayjay lost thirty pounds some years back, and she just hangs around to "suppport" people. Hell, if I wanted to be insulted by some skinny little loser, I would have gone elsewhere. Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't gonna get no better from here. Gee Mike - Sockpuppet to Mu/Roose/SUT... Ironic you post from the same IP .... You ain't fooling anyone here. >Gee Mike - Sockpuppet to Mu/Roose/SUT... Ironic you post from the >same IP .... > >You ain't fooling anyone here. lol lol lol lol Amazing paranoia. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. You may as well killfile 1/2 the regular posters in this group then. Barbara Mary M Brad Determined Ignoramus Jennifer SuzyQ Aross Melissa Julianne Beeswing Bicker Lisa Carol Jamie And I'm sure I'm missing others here. Oh, and Mu himself... >> >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you >feeling [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't gonna get no >better from here. Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they are welcome to do the same with me. Tonia > You may as well killfile 1/2 the regular posters in this group then. > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't gonna get no > >better from here. >Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they are >welcome to do the same with me. How have you successfully killfled Mu since he reappears with a new name and address every couple of days? I keep on getting rid of the new ones when I see them, but I sure would like to sh.t can him for good. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ > >Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they are > >welcome to do the same with me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development > http://www.obesity-news.com/ I have to repeatedly kill-file him. There is no way to kill-file someone permanently when they constantly morph their user name and addy (that I know of.) I scan the message list before I start reading, though. I just clean out my kill-file occasionally and get rid of the oldest ones. It's a sure sign of a troll. Ok, I did myself just change my identity but it was to go back to the one that jayjay and other folks would remember me by. Tonia > > >Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they > are [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >You don't have to fiddle with your filter. The individual who has numerious pen names seems stuck on including Mu in most new ones so just don't read them. he's imbined too much Mu-nshine. > I just clean >out my kill-file occasionally and get rid of the oldest ones. It's a sure >sign of a troll. Ok, I did myself just change my identity.. The level of hypocrisy is astounding. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they are > welcome to do the same with me. As much as I'd like to be added to the list, I believe it's a list of people who are formerly fat but now "skinny" and therefore worth ignoring if you only want to talk to fat people about how to lose weight. I personally find it inspiring. Wendy >Please add me to your list also. I kill-filed Mu/SUT and Turco so they are >welcome to do the same with me. > >Tonia I just ignore stupid people for the most part. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Subject: Re: The Two Pound diet >From: Mars at the Mu_n's Edge ETOHout@email.com [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html >Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. Ohhh ... then that's why you have no self awareness? :D ~Kat "Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer > You may as well killfile 1/2 the regular posters in this group then. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > And I'm sure I'm missing others here. Yes, me. Add me to the list. Martha In article <AbGnb.19175$Ec1.1697024@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, MH <bastzine@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > > You may as well killfile 1/2 the regular posters in this group then. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Martha I have changed my signature message and post occasionally from Google but always use the name Diva. SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman >> >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you > feeling [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Listen, bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a > hundred pounds. Mike, what kind of support are you envisioning? JayJay used to be fat, although not perhaps as fat as you. Now she is skinny. I used to be fat also, again not to the same extent as you. I lost 48 lbs to date and am maintaining normal weight. May she and I give you helpful suggestions? After all, both of us did something that worked. If I am not allowed to give you suggestions, please let me know, I will make sure that I do not give you any suggestions or criticisms. > The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny chick > telling us what we can or can't do. I can't believe you had the gall > to tell me that I wasn't ready to diet (or whatever stupid thing you > said). Why don't you go to the "skinny a.s holes without a life > forum" and blow people sh.t over there. Being ready to diet means being in a mental condition that would enable you to lose substantial amount of weight. If a person is not willing to make the effort needed to lose weight, he is not in a condition to lose it. The effort is not that huge, but it is substantial. > In case people don't know, Jayjay lost thirty pounds some years > back, and she just hangs around to "suppport" people. Hell, if I > wanted to be insulted by some skinny little loser, I would have gone > elsewhere. Try to define the purpose of you being here. If you want a two way conversation, with people giving you advise and disagreeing with you, you need to tone down your posts a little bit. > Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't > gonna get no better from here. Can you put her in your killfile? i 223/175/180 >> >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you > feeling [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Listen, bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a > hundred pounds. Mike, what kind of support are you envisioning? JayJay used to be fat, although not perhaps as fat as you. Now she is skinny. I used to be fat also, again not to the same extent as you. I lost 48 lbs to date and am maintaining normal weight. May she and I give you helpful suggestions? After all, both of us did something that worked. If I am not allowed to give you suggestions, please let me know, I will make sure that I do not give you any suggestions or criticisms. > The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny chick > telling us what we can or can't do. I can't believe you had the gall > to tell me that I wasn't ready to diet (or whatever stupid thing you > said). Why don't you go to the "skinny a.s holes without a life > forum" and blow people sh.t over there. Being ready to diet means being in a mental condition that would enable you to lose substantial amount of weight. If a person is not willing to make the effort needed to lose weight, he is not in a condition to lose it. The effort is not that huge, but it is substantial. > In case people don't know, Jayjay lost thirty pounds some years > back, and she just hangs around to "suppport" people. Hell, if I > wanted to be insulted by some skinny little loser, I would have gone > elsewhere. Try to define the purpose of you being here. If you want a two way conversation, with people giving you advise and disagreeing with you, you need to tone down your posts a little bit. > Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't > gonna get no better from here. Can you put her in your killfile? i 223/175/180 Mike, what is your blood pressure? You sound like someone with serious BP issues. Have you taken your blood pressure measurements lately (can be done free at any drugstore). i 223/175/180 > Listen, bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a > hundred pounds. The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Jayjay, I suggest you put me in your kill file, 'cause it ain't gonna get no > better from here. >Listen, bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a >hundred pounds. The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny >chick telling us what we can or can't do. I can't believe you had the gall >to tell me that I wasn't ready to diet (or whatever stupid thing you said). >Why don't you go to the "skinny a.s holes without a life forum" and blow >people sh.t over there. I lost 86 pounds, would you prefer it come from me? Or how about the numerous people in this group who have lost 100 pounds or more, without 2 pound diet insanity. If you want to talk about this crap try sci,med.cardiology. That's where all the 2pd trolls hang out. On that note, this thread goes into the trash. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ >On that note, this thread goes into the trash. It's already full of your crap, Babs. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >> He and his new little sock puppet MT are out to promote more of Dr. >> Chung's madness. Once again, we'll be infiltrated by the scimedcard >> groupie trolls. >Listen, JJ you bitch, I'm fat and I'm here for support as I attempt to lose about a >hundred pounds. The last thing I, or anybody else needs, is some skinny >chick telling us what we can or can't do. You go, guy. > I can't believe you had the gall >to tell me that I wasn't ready to diet (or whatever stupid thing you said). >Why don't you go to the "skinny a.s holes without a life forum" and blow >people sh.t over there. They ran her off. >In case people don't know, Jayjay lost thirty pounds some years back, and >she just hangs around to "suppport" people. Hell, if I wanted to be insulted >by some skinny little loser, I would have gone elsewhere. Think what you would have missed. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you feeling >faint or have the shakes??? You have been around how long? A week? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. Longer then a week and long enough to know.... geez, that is a stupid post.... ANYONE can look up old posts from months and months ago..... -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >Wow, a post where you aren't being rude and obnoxious..... Are you feeling > >faint or have the shakes??? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >Longer then a week and long enough to know.... Explain to us what it is exactly that you know. >geez, that is a stupid >post.... ANYONE can look up old posts from months and months ago..... I didn't care to take the time. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. I know that I have forgotten more then you know :) -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >Longer then a week and long enough to know.... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >>Longer then a week and long enough to know.... > > Explain to us what it is exactly that you know. Perp *knows* that you're a TROLL and a fool who speaks out the other side of Chung's mouth. >>geez, that is a stupid >>post.... ANYONE can look up old posts from months and months ago..... > > I didn't care to take the time. Of course not. Might show you even more densely for the fool you are. Never let a fact interfere with your TROLLING. Pastorio Hi Bob, if you keep following up to Mu's posts I will have to killfile you. i 223/176/180 >>>Longer then a week and long enough to know.... >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Pastorio >> How did it go over time? -- Mike > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >whose engine still produces the same horsepower, or more, on much, >much less fuel. Dr Chung promotes the 2PD to those who are overweight but as has been demonstrated in the morality thread, you believe that everybody, fat or thin, should be on it. Therefore, do you plan to take the 2PD message to food related forums outside the weight loss spectrum? (like the rec.food groups) How about forums related to ethics and religion? SignatureRon Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can figure out my email address >>> How did it go over time? -- Mike >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>whose engine still produces the same horsepower, or more, on much, >>much less fuel. >Dr Chung promotes the 2PD to those who are overweight but as has been >demonstrated in the morality thread, you believe that everybody, fat >or thin, should be on it. That would be incorrect. > Therefore, do you plan to take the 2PD >message to food related forums outside the weight loss spectrum? (like >the rec.food groups) How about forums related to ethics and religion? If it was appropriate. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >>>>How did it go over time? -- Mike >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That would be incorrect. Gee. Both of you have posted that it's both a weight loss regimen and a life-long approach to smart <snerk> living. >>Therefore, do you plan to take the 2PD >>message to food related forums outside the weight loss spectrum? (like >>the rec.food groups) How about forums related to ethics and religion? > > If it was appropriate. Try to keep up, fishbone. The question, in other words, was, "Is it appropriate?" Pastorio > Gee. Both of you have posted that it's both a weight loss regimen and > a life-long approach to smart <snerk> living. Snerk?! >>Gee. Both of you have posted that it's both a weight loss regimen and >>a life-long approach to smart <snerk> living. > > Snerk?! That derisive little snort people make when they're indicating deep and abiding sarcasm. Comparable to an eyeroll. If that doesn't work for you, think of it as an adverb modifying "smart" that absolutely reverses the meaning. Pastorio >>Dr Chung promotes the 2PD to those who are overweight but as has been >>demonstrated in the morality thread, you believe that everybody, fat >>or thin, should be on it. > >That would be incorrect. Ok, I'l rephrase it. Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average adult living an average lifestyle' fat or thin, should be eating no more then two pounds of "normal food" per day? SignatureRon Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can figure out my email address >>>Dr Chung promotes the 2PD to those who are overweight but as has been >>>demonstrated in the morality thread, you believe that everybody, fat [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > adult living an average lifestyle' fat or thin, should be eating no > more then two pounds of "normal food" per day? Well, when you put it that way, it should be clear that you've introduced too many variables. It really is a very simple idea. You may eat two pounds of food per day. As we all know, that equals two feet or two quarts or two handfuls. These are internationally recognized interchangeable units. Sincerely, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Bird-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com "Imposter" wrote: > <fabricated post snipped> Was it wise to impersonate a physician? Post with full headers have been forwarded to the proper authorities. -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ > "Imposter" wrote: > >> <fabricated post snipped> > > Was it wise to impersonate a physician? Is it wise to post in HTML? SignatureGod's Other Humble Servant Steve >Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or >abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average >adult living an average lifestyle' fat or thin, should be eating no >more then two pounds of "normal food" per day? No need for more. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >>Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or >>abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average >>adult living an average lifestyle' fat or thin, should be eating no >>more then two pounds of "normal food" per day? > > No need for more. Hey Ron. Notice how they forget which one is talking? And which is supposed to answer which question? But really notice the information-free reply. Everybody should do just fine on 2pounds a day. Men of science, both identities. And just use a bit of common sense. I'd suggest we all apply that common sense to deciding whether to listen to anything he/they say. Pastorio >>>Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or >>>abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >But really notice the information-free reply. No, it's not "information free". I suspected for quite some time that Mu's promotion of the 2PD is as much as a moral crusade against overconsumption as it is the promotion of a weight control diet. That statement reconfirms it. The weight control part I agree with. If you're overweight and have made the decision to lose weight, then you must eat less then your body needs. The 2PD is a good simple way to do that and a good simple way of keeping it off. There is nothing more or less dangerous about it then any other low(er) calorie diet involving "normal food". That's where I take issue with some of Dr. Chung's critics who claim that his diet will kill people I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to eat only what they "need" however. As long as one's consumption is not taking food out of anybody else's mouth ("lifeboat" situations, food shortages, famine etc.) then it's none of anybody else's business how much one eats. SignatureRon Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can figure out my email address > That's > where I take issue with some of Dr. Chung's critics who claim that his > diet will kill people Ron, Not to be argumentative, but can you cite one reference where anyone claimed that the 2PD will kill people? I have certainly never made such a claim and I have not seen it made. I certainly believe the "2PD" is absurd, but not dangerous. SignatureGod's Other Humble Servant Steve >>>>Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or >>>>abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > overconsumption as it is the promotion of a weight control diet. That > statement reconfirms it. I gently disagree. Given the normal ratio of content to noise that Mu posts, you can't infer that. If morality of any rational were truly an issue with Mu, that whole posting history would be very different. Given that he implies with that statement that a single quantity of food, essentially irrespective of content, is "correct" for everybody, all the time, it's absurd on the face of it. He hasn't ever talked about any other overconsumption (energy, raw materials, space, SUV's, etc.) and generally comes across too self-involved and self-satisfied to consider externals like that. His generally juvenile style offers rather the opposite sense of him. That he knows THE TRUTH and no proof or reason or demonstration is necessary. Notice how many times he's been critical of other people's credentials while offering none of his own. Notice how often he denigrates others rather than to offer any constructive information. He claims to be a counselor who, by inference, should be helpful, yet spends a great deal of online time merely demonstrating malice. No, I can't buy any sort of morality from Mu. > The weight control part I agree with. If you're overweight and have > made the decision to lose weight, then you must eat less then your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > where I take issue with some of Dr. Chung's critics who claim that his > diet will kill people A few things: 1) for weight loss, that amount of food will likely cause people to lose weight. But I maintain that in the case of those who need to lose more than a trivial amount, the long-term implications are too vague. The only real admonition is to use "common sense" as though it somehow confers knowledge about nutritional information. People who eat badly and become obese are told to merely scale back the amount and not concern themselves with content. They've said to worry about that after the weight is gone. 2) And after they've lost their weight, he says they should continue at that level forever. We're way past that initial concept of weight loss now and heading into insufficient nutrition. 3) I haven't seen any serious assertion that the diet would kill people. The people who asked questions back at the beginning and were turned away with cryptic and unusable answers, mocked and derided, have become scoffers as the claims from Chung and Mu have evolved from the level of suggestion to sheer braggadocio. They talk about 100% efficacy and hundreds of patients doing it and offer nothing beyond their demonstrably unreliable words. As they have accelerated the rhetorical level and proclaimed utterly absurd claims, they've been met with the sort of scorn that mountebanks and malicious clowns deserve. > I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to > eat only what they "need" however. As long as one's consumption is not > taking food out of anybody else's mouth ("lifeboat" situations, food > shortages, famine etc.) then it's none of anybody else's business how > much one eats. I think you offer him a morality that he himself doesn't demonstrate. Never have I seen anything from Mu to corroborate your sense of his having taken a moral stance about consumption. He will, of course, now say it was part of his concern all along and try to claim some new ascendancy over his legion of critics. In any event, the whole crippled and insufficiently considered concept of the "diet" is the central issue. Chung and Mu say everybody should eat no more than an average of two pounds of food per day. All the time, no matter what their weight. No matter their size. No matter their activity level. And use common sense to shape the program as they each interpret it. Whatever that could mean with no science behind it. Neither Chung nor Mu are overly concerned with morality. They're both motivated by "winning" the pseudo-contests in usenet. Somehow they think that their OCD will be rewarded by conquest. Neither seems to recognize that there are no prizes except the approval of each other and the contempt of the rest. Disciples of *Bill Palmer* who can't recognize the difference between dismissal and approval. Pastorio > >>>Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or > >>>abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to > eat only what they "need" however. That is not my position, Ron. > As long as one's consumption is not > taking food out of anybody else's mouth ("lifeboat" situations, food > shortages, famine etc.) then it's none of anybody else's business how > much one eats. Agree. -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ >>I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to >>eat only what they "need" however. > > That is not my position, Ron. I know that's not your position. It's Mu's position and that's what I'm disagreeing with. >>>I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to >>>eat only what they "need" however. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I know that's not your position. It's Mu's position and that's what >I'm disagreeing with. Andrew and I see things for two different perspectives here. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970827.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >I'm disagreeing with. > > Andrew and I see things for two different perspectives here. > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970827.html > Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. Have you both considered a full eclispse of the Mu n? SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman >No, it's not "information free". I suspected for quite some time that >Mu's promotion of the 2PD is as much as a moral crusade against >overconsumption as it is the promotion of a weight control diet. That >statement reconfirms it. It does? You now so little of Mu and what Mu does and thinks. >The weight control part I agree with. If you're overweight and have >made the decision to lose weight, then you must eat less then your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >where I take issue with some of Dr. Chung's critics who claim that his >diet will kill people No one pays any attention to them. And if they do, they are as lost as those critics are. >I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to >eat only what they "need" however. As long as one's consumption is not >taking food out of anybody else's mouth ("lifeboat" situations, food >shortages, famine etc.) then it's none of anybody else's business how >much one eats. Some sins do not necessarily directly affect anyone except the sinner. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970827.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", Trolling again are we? Are you Mu or Chung? Doesn't matter. Bye bye. Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development http://www.obesity-news.com/ >>"Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", > >Trolling again are we? I never thought of you as a troll, Babs. But if you insist. >Are you Mu or Chung? Doesn't matter. Then why did you ask, Moron? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. It is based on a meaningful promise. That you can control food intake by something other than straight calorie count and do okay as long as you pick reasonable foods. It is a bad diet because a good diet provides for a lot of vegetables and there is no way you can get enough vegetables and calories in just 2 lbs of foods. It is promoted by two individuals with moderate to severe mental problems who alienated more or less everybody. I do use something similar to the 2pd: volume control. I always take lunch to work with me, and I make sure that my lunch is a couple of vegetables and a one quart container where I am allowed to put anything I want. Works great because it is easy. i 223/175/180 > "Mineral Mu_n" pointed out a link to a "two pound diet", > http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp . I like the premise of the diet and it > does seem to make sense. Anybody tried this diet? Did you have some success? > How was it getting started? How did it go over time? -- Mike > I like the premise of the diet and it > does seem to make sense. Anybody tried this diet? Did you have some success? > How was it getting started? How did it go over time? -- Mike I think any change in way of eating is going to have to consider portion control. A bigger question is how to juggle eating less while still feeling comfortable. That takes a bit of tinkering. I personally think the whole 2 pound a day concept is bullshit (because the WHAT you're eating matters so much more than how much it weighs) but it may be a reasonable framework for you to learn portion control if you're tackling that aspect right now. Some other ideas are to use luncheon plates instead of dinner plates, to put food in pre-measured containers (like rubbermaid storage bowls), or to use your fist and palm. That's the one I use because, well, my hand is always "handy"! I aim to eat a fist-ful sized portion of starch, another fist-ful size portion of veggies/fruit and a piece of protein the size of my palm (no fingers) in every meal. The Zone diet talks about using "fingers" of foods and it takes a bit of memorizing to get the proportions right but some people swear by that. Personally I'd find having to haul around a scale to be too big an obstacle to overcome. (And in the end you'd still have to learn to choose foods that leave you filling full and with enough energy on the amount of calories you've got budgeted.) BTW, I've read Jayjay's posts to you and they just aren't bitchy. You've got some major attitude about her and it is making you look like an a.shole. We don't all show up the way we mean to on usenet. I don't know if that's what you meant to look like so I'll point it out as kindly as I can in case you would prefer to be nice to the people in the "room" rather than piss us all off. Wendy >Personally I'd find having to haul around a scale to be too big an >obstacle to overcome. You haul around 200 pounds and a scale is a problem? >BTW, I've read Jayjay's posts to you and they just aren't bitchy. You've >got some major attitude about her and it is making you look like an >a.shole. Mike, Marsden, determined and JayJay all what we call "list sisters". > We don't all show up the way we mean to on usenet. I don't know >if that's what you meant to look like so I'll point it out as kindly as I >can in case you would prefer to be nice to the people in the "room" rather >than piss us all off. Note the reference to "all" which is a typical, myopic list sister view of Usenet. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > I think any change in way of eating is going to have to consider portion > control. A bigger question is how to juggle eating less while still [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reasonable framework for you to learn portion control if you're tackling > that aspect right now. The 2PD diet basically says, "Eat what you eat right now, just eat less of it." So if you were on a "balanced" diet with fruit, veggies, protein, etc., the 2PD doesn't change that balance. But like you say, I'm in it right now just to learn to control my portions. Honestly, I think that is all I need to do: stop eating so much. > Some other ideas are to use luncheon plates instead of dinner plates, to > put food in pre-measured containers (like rubbermaid storage bowls), or to > use your fist and palm. That's the one I use because, well, my hand is > always "handy"! Wow, I've gotten a lot of great responses and advice out of the group, so I don't remember who said what. Somebody mentioned eating their meals on a salad plate rather than a full sized plate. But yes, sure, I do expect to learn to eat healthy sized portions of food. On one of my Zig Ziglar tapes there is a passage that talks about weight loss. In it, Ziggy says, "When I sit down to eat, I look at the food on my plate and I ask myself the question, 'Would a healthy person eat that food and drink that drink?'" I really thought that was great advice, and it left me wondering for two years just what it is that a "slender person" will and will not eat. I mean, where the hell do you see what a slender person eats? Certainly not while eating out at Jack in the Box. Coming across the 2PD was like a blessing. Finally, a rule of thumb describing what "slender people" eat that I could apply towards a new WOE. I weighed a big apple this morning just to check it out. It weighed almost a pound. Whoa! To me, eating that apple would have been nothing. I could have downed that and had room for plenty more. Then it hit me: perhaps a "slender person" would split that apple with somebody else, and even then they would only eat four or five ounces of that apple and push the rest aside. THAT is how I need to think. Actually, that is my hypothesis, but I think its a good one. > Personally I'd find having to haul around a scale to be too big an > obstacle to overcome. I'm pretty good at sizing things up. After a few weeks of seeing what x oz. of a particular food looks like I think I'll be in pretty good shape. Assuming this all goes well, I'll be able to judge the size of my meals pretty well and keep a running total of daily ounces consumed in my head. Then its just a matter of walking and/or treadmilling at the gym every day. > (And in the end you'd still have to learn to choose > foods that leave you filling full and with enough energy on the amount of > calories you've got budgeted.) I recon that feeling full is not in the picture for me for the next week or three. The feeling of "full" doesn't come easy to me. > BTW, I've read Jayjay's posts to you and they just aren't bitchy. Sociology and anthropology are interests of mine (but I am not quite up to the hobby or armature level). Its very interesting to read the zillions of posts in this group and see what jj has going here. I have no interest in being judged by her, or any other self proclaimed judge for that matter, much less her. (Enough of that. She claims to have kill-filed my address and that's fine with me.) > You've > got some major attitude about her and it is making you look like an > a.shole. I can be quite a prick when somebody pisses me off. The forty pounds of weight I put on when I quit smoking has raised my blood pressure through the roof. Six months ago, I was at 120/85 (or thereabouts). Now I'm at 180/120 or some sh.t like that. So yes, absolutely! The fact that I have recently quit smoking on top of the huge jump in weight and blood pressure has turned me into a total prick. (That is in no way an apology to jj. She needs people like me to keep her in check.) > We don't all show up the way we mean to on usenet. I don't know > if that's what you meant to look like so I'll point it out as kindly as I > can in case you would prefer to be nice to the people in the "room" rather > than piss us all off. Had I backed away for a day and came back, I could have shot her with an arrow rather than a truckload of ping pong balls, and that would have been better. However, I will say this: quitting smoking puts me in a pissy mood. Eating less and being hungry puts me in a pissy mood. And my blood pressure ain't helpin. I'm here for support, and I do go off from time to time. Obviously, there are some people in this group who either can't handle that kind of thing or simply choose to not handle these kinds of 'situations'. That doesn't mean that I'm in the wrong place, it just means that not everyone here is going to like me and that I'll end up in a few kill files. Mike >> BTW, I've read Jayjay's posts to you and they just aren't bitchy. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >much less her. (Enough of that. She claims to have kill-filed my address and >that's fine with me.) Now you are stating things that I have not said. Rudeness, cursing, namecalling and now you add lieing to your list. Good impression. >So yes, absolutely! The fact that I have recently quit smoking on top of the >huge jump in weight and blood pressure has turned me into a total prick. >(That is in no way an apology to jj. She needs people like me to keep her in >check.) People like you do nothing to keep me in check... Sorry to burst your ego there bub. Don't know what you are trying to check me into... But being honest and open and telling it like it is - isn't going to change when it comes to my posts. > The forty pounds of weight I put on when I quit smoking has raised my blood > pressure through the roof. Six months ago, I was at 120/85 (or thereabouts). > Now I'm at 180/120 or some sh.t like that. Note that I guessed that your hypertension was a problem for you, yesterday. Mike, it is very difficult to live with such hypertension. Most people with hypertension get much better when they lose even 10% of their weight. I also had high BP when I was obese and these days I have completely normal BP, 120/70 or so. You are in desperate need to lose weight. What is your current weight and height? i > > The forty pounds of weight I put on when I quit smoking has raised my blood > > pressure through the roof. Six months ago, I was at 120/85 (or thereabouts). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You are in desperate need to lose weight. What is your current weight > and height? I could *swear* that both you and jj said you were going to killfile me yesterday. I think jj hates me (I don't blame her), and..... I seem to have pissed you off too. Sorry 'bout that (although I was quite dismayed with your ephedrine post.) I am 6'1", 285. I have fat deposits in my liver, so losing weight is literally a life or death thing. Mike > i >I could *swear* that both you and jj said you were going to killfile me >yesterday. I think jj hates me (I don't blame her), and..... I seem to have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Mike In an effort at peace... Where are you from? > In an effort at peace... > > Where are you from? Thank you. I'm sorry I went off so hard on you, by the way. I grew up in Michigan. I ran away to California at the age of 22 (or so) and have been here ever since. >> In an effort at peace... >> >> Where are you from? > >Thank you. I'm sorry I went off so hard on you, by the way. OK - truce - I'm sorry I was inconsiderate in my original post. (hey, for what its worth, I did give my disclamer of "sorry to be harsh"... ) :) See - I'm really not all that much of a bitch. >I grew up in Michigan. I ran away to California at the age of 22 (or so) and >have been here ever since. I'm the only one from my family not born in Michigan. May I ask how it is that you post from an Atlanta IP address then? Granted, your website backs up your Cali story. >May I ask how it is that you post from an Atlanta IP address then? Obsessed with Mu. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >> > The forty pounds of weight I put on when I quit smoking has raised my > blood [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I could *swear* that both you and jj said you were going to killfile No, I recommended that you killfile JayJay. > me yesterday. I think jj hates me (I don't blame her), and..... I Does not appear to be the case... > seem to have pissed you off too. Sorry 'bout that (although I was > quite dismayed with your ephedrine post.) I am just a naturally caustic person. > I am 6'1", 285. I have fat deposits in my liver, so losing weight is > literally a life or death thing. most definitely. i >I am 6'1", 285. I have fat deposits in my liver, so losing weight is >literally a life or death thing. Yes sir it is. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >The 2PD diet basically says, "Eat what you eat right now, just eat less of >it." So if you were on a "balanced" diet with fruit, veggies, protein, etc., >the 2PD doesn't change that balance. Correct. Let's take it one step further. If you are eating 6 pounds of crap, and drop to two pounds of crap, you will lose weight. Changing from crap to good is a matter of applying An Ounce Of Common Sense. >But like you say, I'm in it right now just to learn to control my portions. >Honestly, I think that is all I need to do: stop eating so much. It is your first and correct step. > Coming across the 2PD was >like a blessing. Finally, a rule of thumb describing what "slender people" >eat that I could apply towards a new WOE. Very nicely said. >I weighed a big apple this morning just to check it out. It weighed almost a >pound. Whoa! To me, eating that apple would have been nothing. I could have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >how I need to think. Actually, that is my hypothesis, but I think its a good >one. Taken slowly, the 2PDiet will reduce your need and appetite for food. >I'm pretty good at sizing things up. After a few weeks of seeing what x oz. >of a particular food looks like I think I'll be in pretty good shape. Yes, you will. >The forty pounds of weight I put on when I quit smoking has raised my blood >pressure through the roof. Six months ago, I was at 120/85 (or thereabouts). >Now I'm at 180/120 or some sh.t like that. Calling Dr. Chung. Please advise here. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > >The 2PD diet basically says, "Eat what you eat right now, just eat less of > >it." So if you were on a "balanced" diet with fruit, veggies, protein, etc., [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Calling Dr. Chung. Please advise here. A resting blood pressure of 180/120 should be treated with the appropriate medications now. With weight loss there should be decreasing need for anti-hypertensive medications. Mike really should involve his doctor now to control blood pressure and to adjust medications as weight is lost using the 2PD approach. -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com >> The 2PD diet basically says, "Eat what you eat right now, just eat less of >> it." So if you were on a "balanced" diet with fruit, veggies, protein, >> etc., >> the 2PD doesn't change that balance. > > Correct. Let's take it one step further. Yes, by all means, let's... Because this discussion concerns the Two Pound Diet (2PD), I am providing the following as a Public Service: I have developed the Two Foot Diet approach (2FD) as a replacement for Dr. Chung's Amazing Logic Defying Two Pound Diet to avoid having to carry a scale around. In 2003, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing the Bavarian Alps and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the climbers consumed only 10 packages of wieners per week. That's less than 2 feet of wieners per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I think it is safe to assume that 2 feet of food per day should be more than adequate for us non-climbing folks. So I started a little experiment with the agreeable obese friends in my neighborhood. I gave them ordinary 6 inch rulers with instructions to measure the length of everything substantial that passed into their mouths. The only things exempted were water and sugar-free drinks. What I learned was that my obese friends were consuming between 8 to 12 feet of food per day! At the time, I was about 10 lbs. over my ideal body weight so I decided to find out how much I was eating per day... 3 feet. I cut back to less than 2 feet and was at my proper weight in one month. My friends have responded similarly except they have taken longer because of having to lose more weight. Admittedly, some of my obese friends were especially slow to respond. They also happen to be the ones with an unfortunate propensity for accidentally loosing their 6 inch rulers and taking weeks to buy replacements. So here's the deal: measure all the food you eat, using it's longest dimension, and keep the total length to less than two feet per day. That's all there is. No scales, no counting calories or carbohydrates. Heck, if you loose your ruler, you can even use the first joint of your thumb to measure. I am making this diet available as a public service and without compensation. If you have any questions, just see Dr. Chung's helpful FAQ and substitute "Two Feet" for "Two Pounds" everywhere... what could be simpler? Sincerely, God's Other Humble Servant Steve > >The 2PD diet basically says, "Eat what you eat right now, just eat less of > >it." So if you were on a "balanced" diet with fruit, veggies, protein, etc., [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Calling Dr. Chung. Please advise here. It seems to me I've heard that song before It's from an old familiar score I know it well, that melody It's funny how a theme recalls a favorite dream A dream that brought you so close to me I know each word because I've heard that song before The lyrics said "Forever more" Forever more's a memory Please have them play it again And I'll remember just when I heard that lovely song before > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. >> Calling Dr. Chung. Please advise here. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >And I'll remember just when >I heard that lovely song before Nice, in a hallucinatory sense. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > I personally think >the whole 2 pound a day concept is bullshit (because the WHAT you're >eating matters so much more than how much it weighs) When you tried the 2PDiet....wait, you never did, did you? And you are still obese, aren't you? http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. |
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