Glo, I think that it depends on how you count them.  If I were writing
it all out longhand and totaling them up with a calculator, I would feel
that it was drudgery -- but that's just me, there is nothing *wrong*
with this method.  I use my PDA and just log things as a matter of
course and it's not a big deal.  I log my weight, bf%, exercise and
foods.  It's just a 30 second click-click-click and I'm done.  I suspect
that people who use other programs (spreadsheets, fitday, etc.) get
really fast at it and it can become a mindless task using those methods
as well.  My point is, YMMV.  If you find it to be a bad experience,
then don't do it.  It's sort of like I think that I should enjoy the
exercise that I am doing and if I am starting to hate it I feel that I
need to make a change so that I like it again.  One example is I don't
bike in the rain.  It's not that I couldn't bike in the rain, it's that
it's that to me biking in the rain is not fun.  I'd rather do indoor
exercises and listen to a nice MP3 mix on my PDA (that darn PDA again!)

FWIW, I made the decision to continue with the click-click-clicking away
at my PDA for the foreseeable future even though I've been maintaining
for a while now.  Just like I wouldn't skip balancing my checkbook
because bad things could happen, I don't skip my food log because --
well -- bad things could happen ;-)

Have a good one!

Instead of counting calories per se, I do better with counting portions (my
allowances are 5 portions of meat servings (200 cal each), 4 portions of grain
servings (80 cal each), 3 fruit servings (60 cal each), 2T of olive oil, unlimited
non-starchy vegetables a day). I find this to cut way down on junky stuff that can
easily fit into a calorie-only perspective, and it keeps my intake in better balance.
But I think the notion of just keeping *some* kind of track is important to
success -- as they say in "quality improvement" circles, "If you're not measuring it,
you can't improve it" -- because otherwise it's just a bit of a guessing game and I
was always very good at underestimating my intake. So maybe just write things down if
you don't want to really track them yet -- I have found that rather than keep my mind
on "dieting," it's actually freeing because I know I'm staying in my limits without
worrying about what I'm eating. Getting rid of some of the more detrimental mind
games has really helped me to take and keep weight off.

Mary

Glo - I base my WOE on staying within 1500 calories a day.  I have
recently done a couple of months of tracking my food on diet software,
but I never have to do anything to adjust, as I've had so many years
of experience at managing my food intake.  In other words, I eat the
same sort of meals each day, but with quite a variety of foods, and
just enter what I've eaten at the end of the day.  I was pleased to
see when I did this that it always came out at somewhere between
around 1250 and 1500 maximum.  This way, I keep an eye on my intake
but don't have to work very hard at all in thinking about it.  I like
to spend as little time as possible thinking about food, while still
doing the right thing.  This is why I'm not keen on journalling
although I know the majority of people here wouldn't agree with me on
this.

Some people do something like I do, but weigh their food and log it
for an odd day now and then, just to make sure they're still on the
right track with portion sizes, etc.

But do remember Glo, as always, what works for me may not work for
you.  You need to find what suits you.

janice
233/179/133

In article
<12503-412B7691-58@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net>,

Hey glo!

I count using Fitday, but I'm not religious about it,
nor do I feel the need to be.

My weekday max is set at 1,200 calories. I don't count
on the weekends, they're my "free" days...though I
probably don't eat much more...but maybe I drink a
little more...

I also set rules: I can eat up to 1,500 calories a day
as long as I am exercising and burning that extra 300
cals.

I haven't been able to get to the gym for the last
month, so my exercise has been limited to quick
lunch-time walks/jogs or early morning walks with DH.
By keeping to my 1,200 calorie rule, I haven't gained a
pound (though I've probably lost my hard-earned
muscles).

And I don't feel like it's a diet. I eat whatever I
want, be it ice cream or beer or birthday cake. But it
has to fit into both my calorie limit and my carb limit
and my fat limit and my protein goal and my fiber goal,
and all that other jazz I have set up in Fitday--yeah,
it's complicated and sometimes it's a pain to feed that
stuff in the computer, but it helps me to stay on
track. I've been doing it so long now between Weight
Watchers and now Fitday that it's second nature.

Good luck,

Amy
168/115

I can count calories to within the nearest 100 without too much
problem. I mean most normal-sized components of a meal fall into the
100, 200, 300, or 400kcal category pretty clearly (an In&Out
cheeseburger is 400kcal, and I rarely eat anything richer than that).

Since I avoid calorie-dense crap (except almonds, which are easy to
apportion into a 1oz/200kcal serving) I "count" calories to ensure I'm
getting enough food.

Back in the bad old days I thought a 300kcal "Healthy Choice" dinner
would be enough to last all night.

I thought it was *me* that was abnormal for getting so hungry a couple
of hours later. Now I know I need 50-100kcal/hour, depending on
activity, and feeding myself is more directed towards my energy needs
than pleasure.

Counting calories to limit one's eating pleasure is a crappy way to
live. Work on why you feel you need to eat the crap, and life becomes
a lot easier.

I count calories, but not because I find it to be "the better way." I
haven't tried any other way, and this way seems to be working for me
so far.

I use fitday.com.

As always, YMMV.

Kasey
365/248/???

Well, I'm sure you know that I count calories, since I post them every
day :-).  I know that it isn't the method of choice for everyone.  But
in the past I've found that I'm not very good at judging how much I'm
eating, so I need some way of ensuring that it doesn't creep up
without me realizing it.  

In general weight loss requires that one limit intake in some way, of
course, and many people find that they need to create some kind of
structure to do this.  Whether the structure is counting things like
carbs, calories, WW points, or exchanges, or eliminating certain foods
entirely, or avoiding products with more than x% or x grams of some
nutrient, or eating much the same things every day, there is usually
some kind of food monitoring behavior.  If this is diet thinking, well
then, maybe that's what's needed to lose weight.  Lots of people here
get worked up about "it's not a diet, it's a WOE".  I think that's
just a semantic quibble, honestly, but what we've all undertaken here
does demand some kind of discipline about our eating that is different
from what we've done in the past.  Is it a bad thing if this makes us
feel like we're "dieting"?  How about if I just substitute "if it
makes us feel like we're practing a new WOE"?  Shouldn't we feel that
way?

Whatever we want to call it or however we want to think about it, it's
a change for life, not just a temporary digression from normal until
we get to some magic goal weight and resume our old ways.  We need to
accept that fact, not resent it.

Chris
262/141/ (145-150)

I simply practice portion control.  I don't feel like I am dieting anymore.

While I am never 100% accurrate, I do count calories. I also don't
log them in a computer or on paper, just a mental note. I think
its important to do basic counting, esp if you are trying to
lose weight. It is also important to understand the serving
size of foods and snacks.

Cygnus
The Bringer of Balance

Yes, I do know what you mean. I got very very bored with counting the
calories and putting my results into fitday. Then I received a booklet
from Weight Watchers with a short points list. I experimented with that,
and it has paid off. Just the joy of learning something new was enough to
keep me motivated and adjust my diet to a low-fat, medium-carb WOE.

Since then I've been adding items I like to eat and figuring out their
points based on what I want my diet to be. WW is nice, but very focused on
the low-fat part, so items with high protein always get loads of points
(even if you eat non-fat varieties) compared to low-fat high-carb foods.
According to them I can eat 22 points a day, I added to that one free
serving of dairy, or one egg, or one serving of lean meat. Since I have no
way of calculating bonus points for my exercise, I allow myself 2 extra
points on workout days.

I've been doing this for 2 weeks now, lost a nice couple of lb's on the
go, enjoyed my WOE, never got hungry and am bursting with energy. What I
most like about the WW system is you can eat most fruit and veggies for
'free', so I eat a lot healthier too. I don't like I have to pay $40 per
month to get the full details of their system so I decided not to join.

GloDon2@webtv.net (Gloria) wrote in news:12503-412B7691-58@storefull-
3134.bay.webtv.net:

I started out and ended my weight loss counting calories. Now I practice
portion control and eat when Im hungry. I am maintaining just fine with
this method. I must note that counting calories really taught me how to get
more bang for my buck. The healthier you eat the more you can eat. (in most
cases) I really dont restrict myself from anything anymore. If I want a
candy bar, I eat a candy bar. ((just 1)) This really helps me alot. I am a
natural born binger so I have to be very carefull not to restrict myself
from anyone food for too long or I will go crazy thinking about it. And
eventually give in and eat 12 or more candy bars. Tomorrow is a free day
for me. I went to the store and got myself a sugar free king size candybar
that I will enjoy after supper tomorrow. And I WILL enjoy it. :) When I got
over the fear of eating, my maintenance became easy. Its not really the
fear of eating but the fear of gaining all the weight back that kept me
from enjoying food. I mean that fear will always be there a tiny bit. But
releasing it for the most part has made living easier. Those primal binge
urges have been greatly reduced also!