> Yes, that's pretty much true. The other thing is that not *everything*
> has the Nutrition Facts label on it. :-(
Ok, this has been bugging me for a while and I just don't get it. I
frequent the Starbucks near work. When I am waiting for me coffee, I am
bad about looking at the labels of all of the stuff on the counter.
Almost none of it has the Nutrition Facts label. Almost all if it has
the ingredients list. I really don't understand the rule for what does
and does not get the Nutrition Facts label. After Chris's post, I got
more curious about this and I looked at the FDA info on what is exempt
from labeling
(http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=21&PART=101&SECTION=10
0&YEAR=1999&TYPE=TEXT)
and I still don't get it. Can anyone here set me straight?
Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
nutritional info?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/10/24/restaurants.obesity.ap/index.html
I would really love this. I know that a lot of placed to have their
info online or otherwise available (O'Charlies and P.F. Changes e-mailed
me spreadsheets!) but a lot of places are down right nasty about it (our
CHEFS blah blah blah -- for goodness sake, this is FRIDAYS and if
someone goes to a Friday's in Texas and then to one in Illinois, they
expect the food to be more or less the same. Don't you folks of
RECIPIES?)

Signature
jmk in NC
Beverly - 30 Oct 2003 15:50 GMT
> > Yes, that's pretty much true. The other thing is that not *everything*
> > has the Nutrition Facts label on it. :-(
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> more curious about this and I looked at the FDA info on what is exempt
> from labeling
(http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=21&PART=101&SECT
ION=100&YEAR=1999&TYPE=TEXT)
> and I still don't get it. Can anyone here set me straight?
>
> Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
> nutritional info?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/10/24/restaurants.obesity.ap/in
dex.html
> I would really love this. I know that a lot of placed to have their
> info online or otherwise available (O'Charlies and P.F. Changes e-mailed
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> jmk in NC
I would love to see restaurants provide the nutrition information for their
food on the menu. I'm sure there are some things I've ordered in the past
that I *thought* were healthy choices when they really contained more
calories, fat, etc than I expected. I often look for the 'heart healthy'
entrees when eating out as I hope they might be a little better than a
regular choice. I also like to eat at places that serve vegetables,
salads, etc but often the vegetables are prepared in tons of butter and
salt.
Beverly
jmk - 30 Oct 2003 16:11 GMT
> "jmk" <jmkizernospam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
>>nutritional info?
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Beverly
I would also find this to be very helpful. I would not object to them
having a separate Nutrition list (like a wine list) that they put in the
table as long as it was readily available. I just one the info
available, I don't care if it's part of the actual menu or not. I also
go for the heart smart type choices a lot and I'm more conscious of the
nutritional value of side dishes than in the past.

Signature
jmk in NC
Bob Pastorio - 30 Oct 2003 18:12 GMT
> Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
> nutritional info?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> someone goes to a Friday's in Texas and then to one in Illinois, they
> expect the food to be more or less the same. Don't you folks of RECIPIES?)
I've owned and operated restaurants of all sorts for 30 years. Even
the ones that cooked according to formulas didn't always turn out the
same thing every time. Chain operations have to adapt recipes to local
tastes. Seasonal variations cause different formulations. Tomatoes
don't come all the same.
Having said all that, there are clearly dishes that will lend
themselves to nutritional analyses. Foods prepared from convenience
mixes or ingredients that the restaurants simply assemble. Fast food.
"More or less the same" will still contribute to significant
differences in nutritional profiles. In the south, sugar will often be
added to vegetables. Not so in the north. Same with fats and
condiments. Even the big chain operations use some eyeballing and
judgement in the kitchens.
But any restaurant that prepares foods with any discretion in the
hands of the cooks or on a variable menu just can't do it. Same with
portion sizes - food doesn't often come in neat serving sizes and the
variability is significant. A scoop of mashed potatoes at the
beginning of the shift is usually smaller than the one at the end. As
staff gets tired, they're less critical.
Daily specials that are made with odds and ends or leftovers (soups,
omelets and quiches, stews, casseroles, etc.) will be impossible to
evaluate on a daily basis. Even well-established dishes demand
compensation in the kitchen if prepared form raw ingredients.
If I had to have analyses of every dish on my normal menus, the cost
would be very ugly. I got a price of $750 for each flavor of fruit
juice curd I make for sale to be analyzed. They are made by an utterly
inflexible recipe because they're packaged products. My normal menus
used to contain around 50 food items ranging through the normal
categories and were deeply changed quarterly. No specials. No
variations. No soups, desserts, breads, compound butters listed.
That's $37,500 each quarter to have the analyses done. Nice even
$150,000 per year and that doesn't cover everything. Will some things
be exempt for this labeling? If not, either no specials or no truth.
How does this nutrition labeling apply to the bar and mixed drinks?
How about banquets where customers want foods prepared to their
specifications? And buffets where portion sizes are so variable even
if they don't make changes in the recipe for their group? Recipes
can't be scaled exactly, so a formulation for 25 isn't simply
multiplied by 10 to feed 250.
Foodservice operators have wrestled with this question for years.
Hired consultants and experts. Formed committees with outside people.
Nobody has come up with a rational way to do it or an irrational one.
The only way anyone could do this is if all the food were processed
and packaged. Factory-food. Not interested.
How accurate would the threshold need to be? Would a range be useful?
If it required restaurants to list all ingredients, that might be an
issue. Proprietary recipes. What would you like to see on the menus?
Which nutrients?
Pastorio
jmk - 30 Oct 2003 19:07 GMT
>> Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
>> nutritional info?
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> Pastorio
So PF Changs can provide nutritional info but Friday's cannot?
O'Charlie's can but Macaroni Grill cannot? How are these restaurants
different? Chili's and Olive Garden can only provide info for 3-6
dishes? It sounds to me more like some places aren't too proud of the
nutritional content of the food that they serve.

Signature
jmk in NC
@big dress.com - 31 Oct 2003 22:29 GMT
>>> Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
>>> nutritional info?
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> dishes? It sounds to me more like some places aren't too proud of the
> nutritional content of the food that they serve.
Do you have this much trouble reading the newspaper, too. It sounds to
me like you are a jackass who is just looking for a fight. Cheffie
told you how the real world works and now it is time for you to stuff
a sock in it.
Plonk
Mu_Tandis Mu_Tando
jmk - 03 Nov 2003 13:53 GMT
On 10/31/2003 4:29 PM, @big wrote:
>>>> Also, how do you feel about the FDA requiring restaurants to provide
>>>> nutritional info?
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> Mu_Tandis Mu_Tando
Mu, Cheffie said related his experience. I may have misread what he
said but he seemed to imply that he worked for more local establishments
and not national chains. I totally agree that non-chains should not
have to fulfill this requirement. I also understand that every tomato
in the whole world is not the same size and does not have the same
nutritional value (just read the latest about organic food perhaps
having more nutrients than conventionally grown foods to see that).
Still, when people do a food log they generally write down one apple,
one tomato, etc. I see this variability is any different for an
individual than for a restaurant. Many mid-level chain restaurants
gladly provide nutritional information upon request. Some were very
rude with their responses though. They no longer get my money. If you
have thoughts on this, you might want to contact the FDA, which is
currently looking into this requirement: http://www.fda.gov/comments.html

Signature
jmk in NC