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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / November 2003hitting the bottom and bouncing back up
Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional triggers that I choose not to get into publicly, I had myself quite a binge late last night after DH went to bed. As I got into it I got angrier and angrier knowing how self-destructive I was being which only fanned the flames. Oddly enough I didn't jump off the wagon of my WOE. I only cleaned out the fridge of all veggies and dove into the HMR entrees & shakes. I finally ended it with a bowl of oatmeal. All in all it turned out to be about 1300 extra calories. Due to environmental control I just don't have anything in the house that I really *can't* eat. I was quite sick when I was done, but rode it out. Unfortunately the self-destruction didn't end this morning. It was nice out when I woke up so I decided to run, but fought with the urge to just screw it all and lay around and eat more. I got downstairs for water, etc. and started eating again - which I never do before a run or else I get sick. I was having an internal *screaming* match: "I refuse to put the weight back on and I am not going to do this to myself anymore!" I was able to snap out of it and get my butt moving, and actually I was so angry that I ran harder and faster than I've ever done. I refused to let up no matter how hard it was to breathe, ending up with a record time for my 3.5 miles. My avg. mile pace was 9:49 min. I should finish my 5K next week under 30 min! Spent the rest of the day at Curves and then running errands (taking my time) and then I was able to spend some time with a good friend who listened while I yelled and cried and let it out. She helped me talk through it all and gave my hair gorgeous copper highlights to boot. Stuck to the diet all day, no problem. Bought some low fat stuff to replace the fat free when grocery shopping. Decided to up to fat % a little to see if it helps. (currently less than 10% - looking to get to 15% gradually) The war is just beginning. The battles are not easy. I am not as strong as I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to share the difficulties.  SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge Hey Jenn, You've come so far. Just think, if you didn't go thru this program, you may have never been able to get yourself out of this distructive behavior. Realizing you have a problem and taking control of it before it totally takes over you is hard work. There will be setbacks, there will be improvements. You seem to be very prepared for both. You will get mentally stronger. You will do better, you will maintain. -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I > can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge > Hey Jenn, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Email me at: > perpleglow(AT)comcast.net That's what I have to tell myself every day. I mostly wanted people to know that I'm not having as easy of a time as it sometimes seems from my posts. I'm aware of the setbacks and the challenges. I wonder if it wasn't easier to get out of the destructive pattern because I'm at my goal weight and feel like I have so much more to lose by giving in rather than it being a light at the end of a long tunnel. If the same thing had happened months ago, would I have thrown in the towel and given up rather than fight? Probably, since that's what I've always done. That's just one more reason I am glad I did HMR and took off the pounds quickly. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:34:15 -0600, "Jennifer Austin" >That's what I have to tell myself every day. I mostly wanted people to know >that I'm not having as easy of a time as it sometimes seems from my posts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >since that's what I've always done. That's just one more reason I am glad I >did HMR and took off the pounds quickly. Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just that there's more to lose (or rather to regain!). There's a strong element of my binge behaviour that is like "the condemned man's last meal" - that is, I know I'm going to have to get back on track but while I'm "allowing" myself to eat everything, why don't I just let myself have one more day and then I'll go back to my WOE. Of course, one day turns into two and so on, and we all know where that leads. This is one of the reasons I believe that, for me at least, too rigid dieting isn't the way to stop bingeing. janice > Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist > bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dieting isn't the way to stop bingeing. > janice For me, and many obese people, not being rigid will set us up for failure. If I am given too many choices, it will be hard for me. I can't speak for Jennifer though.... > > Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist > > bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If I am given too many choices, it will be hard for me. I can't speak for > Jennifer though.... For maintenance I need to be structured, but I need flexibility. If I begin to feel too restricted it leads to feeling deprived which then begins to weaken the defenses :) I need some choices, but within a limit which is why counting calories has always worked for me. I already created a spreadsheet calculating the right dietary exchanges to have a balanced diet in the macronutrient proportions and calorie level I want to maintain for when I go partially and then completely off the HMR stuff. It's when I stop logging and counting that I lapse. It's also when I stop working out so I make sure that I keep up the exercise and avoid burnout. We're all different. Do what works for you. :) SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > For maintenance I need to be structured, but I need flexibility. If I begin > to feel too restricted it leads to feeling deprived which then begins to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and counting that I lapse. It's also when I stop working out so I make sure > that I keep up the exercise and avoid burnout. **Yeah, good point. I log everything I eat too. It makes me accountable to me. I am nervous about mainanance, but I know I will take it one day at a time. At this point, I have another 60 lbs to go. My goal weight is a bit higher then your's at 170-180. > We're all different. Do what works for you. :) ***I am still new to this and don't know what will work for me for sure... I am working on the self discovery to find out :) > -- > Jenn > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge > ***I am still new to this and don't know what will work for me for sure... I > am working on the self discovery to find out :) I haven't figured out what works for me yet either. I'm just figuring out how to do the week ahead and see what happens. Once I add in my own cooking and drop the entrees (or just use them occasionally is the plan), stuff changes pretty radically. HMR maintenance still includes 2 shakes a day and I plan to keep that up indefinitely because it makes a great breakfast for me. >> For maintenance I need to be structured, but I need flexibility. If I >begin [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> We're all different. Do what works for you. :) Logging is a necessity for me. That way, if I veer off track... I see it. Worse, I see just what it costs me in calories and carbs and fat. That in itself is a deterrent. Cynthia 262/234.0/200 first goal > Logging is a necessity for me. That way, if I veer off track... I see > it. Worse, I see just what it costs me in calories and carbs and fat. > That in itself is a deterrent. > > Cynthia > 262/234.0/200 first goal I also need to log. I've always been very successful while logging. The only difference is now I'm logging the details at the end of the day rather than throughout the day like before deciding when or what to eat. I found the last few days I'm not even eating as much as I was but feeling more satisfied. Tonight I did eat a bit extra. I was hungry and I also wanted to stock up an extra 100-200 calories for tomorrow's run. Tomorrow morning I'm planning on oatmeal, yogurt, peanut butter, and fruit for breakfast a few hours before the race and a shake an hour before the race. If the scale starts creeping back up, I'll eat lighter until the trend reverses. Even if the scale doesn't creep up, I'll be eating lighter just because it's physically uncomfortable to eat this much. SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > If the scale starts creeping back up, I'll eat lighter until the trend > reverses. Even if the scale doesn't creep up, I'll be eating lighter just > because it's physically uncomfortable to eat this much. When I suggested that you do it, you called me an ignorant a.shole. But I guess you finally internalized my suggestion and are wising up. Now who is ignorant? As for food logging, I agree that it is a great idea. I do not log what I eat, but I simply remember. i 223/177/180 >> Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist >> bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If I am given too many choices, it will be hard for me. I can't speak for > Jennifer though.... You are quite right PG. After a while of this "rigidity", you will realize that it is simply the right way to live. Do the right thing every day, is the right way to live your life. i >> Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist >> bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >If I am given too many choices, it will be hard for me. I can't speak for >Jennifer though.... I find if I'm locked into rigid choices, I get bored quick and then lapse. If I'm not locked in, I allow myself an occasional treat and then get back on board with my plan. It seems to work better for me that way. Usually, I don't like the treat as well as I thought I would and won't bother with it again for months. Cynthia 262/234.0/200 first goal > >> Interesting - I've often wondered if it wouldn't be easier to resist > >> bingeing if I was at my goal rather than on the way to it. Not just [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Cynthia > 262/234.0/200 first goal I like having some choice but I also have some restrictions that I'm just starting to get used to. I'm avoiding refined carbs, high fats, sugar, and any fast food except for salads, and grilled stuff. It's a new WOE for me and will take getting used to. I just know that if I started eating that stuff again, even in any kind of moderation, it would eventually get out of control, even if it wasn't physically or mentally satisfying at the time. I just know that about me and that's good. I'm finding ways to treat myself t hat either don't involve food or involve healthy foods that are done well :) SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR takes the guesswork out of what to eat. I've never made it to a goal, but I know that it will be difficult to live day by day thinking about everything I put into my mouth. You are one step ahead of many people. At least you know your weaknesses and are fighting to face them and win. There are millions of people that are obese and just accept that lot in their life. You have seen the light (so to speak). > That's what I have to tell myself every day. I mostly wanted people to know > that I'm not having as easy of a time as it sometimes seems from my posts. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge > Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR takes > the guesswork out of what to eat. I've never made it to a goal, but I know [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of people that are obese and just accept that lot in their life. You have > seen the light (so to speak). Yup. I've said from the beginning that the diet was easy. Maintenance is the toughest part. I've done a bunch of planning and prepping for a totally new WOE and I hope that helps. Let's just keep the light burning. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR > takes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the toughest part. I've done a bunch of planning and prepping for a totally > new WOE and I hope that helps. Let's just keep the light burning. somehow when I say that, I am an ignorant a.shole and when you say it, it must be the biggest insight since the beginning of mankind... i > >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR > > takes [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > i When you say it, you come across as a condescending, insulting a.shole who obviously doesn't read posts very well and dispenses simplistic answers to complex situations with no real experience to some of us who have at least half a brain and some experience. I don't ever need to be told by you to be vigilant again since I actually am more so than you and your self-professed laziness. I don't need to be told by you to do things I am doing and have stated repeatedly that I am doing. That kind of paternalistic condesention is not warranted or welcome and that's why you're an a.s. In the words of Barbara Bush to Al Franken: I'm done with you. >> >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR >> > takes [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > is not warranted or welcome and that's why you're an a.s. In the > words of Barbara Bush to Al Franken: I'm done with you. I sound condescending only because I contradict your denial and rationalizations. If you had half a brain, you would try to take things at face value and consider your situation objectively and rationally, rather than incorrectly infer bad intent and hide your head in the sand. i 223/178/180 Please describe what it is like to have 1/2 a brain to know this... -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >> >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR > >> > takes [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > i > 223/178/180 > Please describe what it is like to have 1/2 a brain to know this... Simple, to improve (as in lose weight) you do the right things and do not do the wrong things... denial does not make you slimmer... all it takes to realize this is half a brain! i >> >> >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. > HMR [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> i >> 223/178/180 Amazing you managed then.... :) -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > Please describe what it is like to have 1/2 a brain to know this... > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > >> i > >> 223/178/180 > I sound condescending only because I contradict your denial and > rationalizations. Bullshit! You are condescending up there, and yes, you are an a.shole. If you had half a brain, you would try to take > things at face value and consider your situation objectively and > rationally, rather than incorrectly infer bad intent and hide your > head in the sand. I'm doing what I should have done long ago... *PLONK!* Martha >> >> Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR >> > takes [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > is not warranted or welcome and that's why you're an a.s. In the > words of Barbara Bush to Al Franken: I'm done with you. I sound condescending only because I contradict your denial and rationalizations. If you had half a brain, you would try to take things at face value and consider your situation objectively and rationally, rather than incorrectly infer bad intent and hide your head in the sand. i 223/178/180 > > Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR > takes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the toughest part. I've done a bunch of planning and prepping for a totally > new WOE and I hope that helps. Let's just keep the light burning. No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset that you need to work on. > No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset > that you need to work on. Yep, I guess so. After 30 years of obesity and eating anything and everything I felt like, I can just lose more than half of my body weight and and the rest will take care of itself in less than a year. Maintenance is a breeze which is why more than 90% of people gain back what they lose and then some... been there done it myself actually. But hey, I shouldn't let past experience and my own self-awareness dictate what I should do. > > No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset > > that you need to work on. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > then some... been there done it myself actually. But hey, I shouldn't let > past experience and my own self-awareness dictate what I should do. Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg (44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back to eating whatever I like because I'll just put it all back on again. I also can't keep eating at losing levels because I'll start looking skeletal. Finding that balance between losing and gaining is one of the hardest things I've ever done in terms of my diet. I don't think I've *ever* *conciously* maintained a given (healthy) weight. Anyone who believes that this is easy has obviously never really thought about why we're all here in the first place. Jen - you have the right attitude. Maintenance is hard, but thinking about what you're doing is the way to success. SignatureJulie. 93.5/72.6/74 (WW goal)/72 (Personal goal) kg >> > No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset >> > that you need to work on. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the right attitude. Maintenance is hard, but thinking about what > you're doing is the way to success. let's all agree that maintenance is not trivial, but it is not enormously complicated or extraordinarily difficult. After a little while it becomes a little easier. In my life, there is very little difference between maintenance and weight loss mode: all that is different is that I eat slightly more than when I was losing weight, by a tiny amount. i 223/178/180 You don't get it, you will never get it, please stop trying to get it.... geez... -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >> > No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset > >> > that you need to work on. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > i > 223/178/180 > let's all agree that maintenance is not trivial, but it is not > enormously complicated or extraordinarily difficult. After a little > while it becomes a little easier. In my life, there is very little > difference between maintenance and weight loss mode: all that is > different is that I eat slightly more than when I was losing weight, > by a tiny amount. Didn't you start the "hungry on maintenance" thread a while back? How is that going for you now? Signaturejmk in NC >> let's all agree that maintenance is not trivial, but it is not >> enormously complicated or extraordinarily difficult. After a little [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Didn't you start the "hungry on maintenance" thread a while back? How > is that going for you now? Good question Janyne. It is going a little better actually. I started eating substantially more vegetables like cauliflower and bell peppers, it helps a lot. Now I am not hungry approximately since 11am until about 7am. I am fairly hungry before breakfast and then get less hungry as the breakfast is digested. Remember that my last meal is 5:30pm and I my breakfast is 7:40am at work. 11am is when I have my lunch. i Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg >(44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back >to eating whatever I like because I'll just put it all back on again. >I also can't keep eating at losing levels because I'll start looking >skeletal. Finding that balance between losing and gaining is one of >the hardest things I've ever done in terms of my diet. I don't think >I've *ever* *conciously* maintained a given (healthy) weight. This is something that worries me about how I would ever cope with maintenance. My eating has consisted of nothing but binge mode or eating-to-lose-weight mode for years now. One of the problems I can see is that I know how to do both these, but I don't know how to eat to stay at a level weight, and there's as much risk of eating too little as too much. I'd be surprised if my weight has ever been the same two months running, and how "normal" people stay at roughly the same weight for months and years is something I find almost impossible to understand. janice > > Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > months and years is something I find almost impossible to understand. > janice I also thought that it was complicated, but it seems less so, for me. It seems to work for me for the last 2 months. Just weigh yourself every day. If your weight creeps up, eat a little less than yesterday, if it stays same, eat same amount, if it goes down, eat a little more. As simple as that. I know that there is a crowd who will exclaim "if it was only that easy for us with emotional problems". To that crowd, I will answer that emotional problems no doubt make things more difficult, but my suggestion works very well if you can follow it. i 223/176/180 Geez, you've been on maintanance for 2 whole months now.... You must be the expert.... Listen to his advice, Janice..... :) -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg > >>(44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > i > 223/176/180 > Geez, you've been on maintanance for 2 whole months now.... You must be the > expert.... Listen to his advice, Janice..... :) I may not be a big expert, but if you are challenging my personal credibility as far as my own weight loss goes, I have accomplished quite a bit and am holding onto my maintenance plan without big failures so far. Who knows how it will work in the future, but my confidence (estimated chances of sccess in the long run) is increasing slowly. Now I give myself 50-60% or so chance of not regaining much for the next 10 years. i >> > Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg >> >>(44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> i >> 223/176/180 > Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg > >(44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > months and years is something I find almost impossible to understand. > janice Very well put. You know exactly how I feel and put it in words better than I could. Thanks :) Jenn do. > Ha! Maintenance easy??!! It took me over a year to lose 20kg > (44lbs), and now it's a whole new ball game. I know I can't go back [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the right attitude. Maintenance is hard, but thinking about what > you're doing is the way to success. Thanks. It's all part of what we learn in HMR. Before starting the plan I spoke to a lot of people who failed to keep the weight off and the one thing they had in common was a failure to follow through with maintenance - continuing to log food, exercise, etc. I vowed never to let that happen and I don't. So what if I'm working hard? It's important to me. Like I said before, you can't undo 30 years of a fat mentality with a few months at a normal weight. Jenn > Like I said > before, you can't undo 30 years of a fat mentality with a few months at a > normal weight. Jennifer, did you finish reading "Fattitudes"? Did you really examine your eating triggers? For me, at least, putting everything in the light of day really helped me to deal with them. I honestly feel that the fat mentality is changeable just by changing my mind. Did I tell you that my daughter went as something really scary for Halloween? She was a french fry. Wendy, who wouldn't have seen that as scary two years ago > > Like I said > > before, you can't undo 30 years of a fat mentality with a few months at a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of day really helped me to deal with them. I honestly feel that the fat > mentality is changeable just by changing my mind. I confess, I haven't finished it yet. It got misplaced for a while, but I just found it this weekend when clearing through the rubble that is my home office. It's back on the bedstand where it belongs now that I'm home again. I put away Dr. Phil to finish it. Anyway, I have been examining them and I went back and reread some journals and found what I did wrong. It won't happen again. Things, including my mind, have improved 1000%. I am finding that I still see myself as the "fat chick" though. I'm just not used to this, but after the last few days on the road it's gotten a lot easier. > Did I tell you that my daughter went as something really scary for > Halloween? She was a french fry. > > Wendy, who wouldn't have seen that as scary two years ago LOL SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > "Jennifer Austin" <jennifer@resurveythis.org> wrote in message >>Yup. I've said from the beginning that the diet was easy. Maintenance is >>the toughest part. I've done a bunch of planning and prepping for a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No, it's not. You choose for it to be tough for you. It's your own mindset > that you need to work on. I think that you are both right. Going into maintenance requires learning some new "rules." That can be tough and stressful both. Signaturejmk in NC > Personally, I believe that the toughest part may be maintanance. HMR takes > the guesswork out of what to eat. I've never made it to a goal, but I know [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of people that are obese and just accept that lot in their life. You have > seen the light (so to speak). All completely correct statements. Maintenance is harder than weight loss for a million of reasons. One reason is that there is no hope that this struggle will ever end. i 223/178/180 sorry to hear that Jennifer. We all have our old demons and they do come back to haunt us. You see, this is true even if we do not like that fact. I certainly have my own demons (food related) as well, such as wanting to eat too often. Anyway, binging on most vegetables (unless it is peanut butter or potatoes) is better than binging on doritos. So do not keep any binge foods in your home. Work off that one pound to know that binges have consequences. i > Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I > can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > share the difficulties. > sorry to hear that Jennifer. We all have our old demons and they do > come back to haunt us. You see, this is true even if we do not like [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > i LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have to keep calories in close check. Binges have a lot more consequences than pounds gained. I don't think there's a binge eater out there that doesn't know it. As we've said before, knowing it's wrong, understanding it has bad consequences, etc. is not going to stop it. It's an irrational impulse that at times is so overwhelming it's *extremely difficult* to resist. I'm not going to say impossible because there are people who do it. I've resisted many a time, but sometimes life beats you down and you get tired of fighting or you just go into autopilot and start. DH is also a binge eater and we've never kept chips, crackers, cookies, etc. in our home. The preferred binge foods have always been leftovers or foods picked up from the store or fast food joint for the sole purpose of binge eating. I am responsible for the behavior and my actions and that sometimes makes the problem worse because there really is no one to blame but myself - which can lead to more self destruction but didn't. I got through it. I didn't compound the problem by going out and buying what I really wanted to eat. I even survived grocery shopping. I went down 1 pound today and I am continuing to work on the issues that brought it on in the first place. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge >LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is >still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have >to keep calories in close check. The 5 pounds has to be mainly water weight, though. Even if your metabolism is weird, you can't put on 5 pounds of fat with an extra 3000 or so calories. It will be gone in a day or two if you get back on plan, watch the sodium, and drink plenty of water. I found your story really moving, though. I have never been a binge eater, but you made me feel what it must be like. You write well, and from the heart. (For me, being upset about something makes me uninterested in eating. I'm much more someone who associates eating with celebration and happiness and reward and recreation and such. I'd indulge in lots of sweets and fattening foods when I was enjoying myself with friends, on vacation, at the end of a hard and productive work day as a reward, because it was Saturday and a nice day, etc. Maybe a happier reason for eating, but it makes you just as fat. I have needed to work on separating having fun from eating.) I hope you're feeling happier and stronger today. Chris >(For me, being upset about something makes me uninterested in eating. >I'm much more someone who associates eating with celebration and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >for eating, but it makes you just as fat. I have needed to work on >separating having fun from eating.) This sort of sums up my attitude to alcohol, which for me is never a strong temptation, just a very enjoyable way of celebrating with others. It would never occur to me to drink either alone or because I was feeling low (or worse still, both). And yet with food, it's the opposite. If the company is good and there's a lot to talk about I almost forget about the food, but my most destructive eating behaviour is always done alone. janice > >LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is > >still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 3000 or so calories. It will be gone in a day or two if you get back > on plan, watch the sodium, and drink plenty of water. ITA and that's what I'm working on :) I just said that because ig is so anal retentive about every single ounce gained or lost. My weight fluctuates +/- 2 pounds daily these days due to water and stuff. The other good thing is that 145 was my high end and I'd gotten down to 140 before this happened. > I found your story really moving, though. I have never been a binge > eater, but you made me feel what it must be like. You write well, and > from the heart. Thanks Chris. I used to hate writing until a professor I had sat me down and taught me how. I find that it really helps me get things out by putting it on paper. I go through a lot of journals nowadays. > (For me, being upset about something makes me uninterested in eating. > I'm much more someone who associates eating with celebration and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for eating, but it makes you just as fat. I have needed to work on > separating having fun from eating.) I would eat for any emotional situation, but I do find that the more contented I am, the less I eat. Since I'm an introvert, being around people tends to make me want to eat more. > I hope you're feeling happier and stronger today. > > Chris I really am! Thanks. I made sure to start tackling the issues right away and dealing with the people and things I could deal with. Once the sun came up this morning I saw that the universe held off the rain and snow predicted for today so I could get in another run so I took advantage of it, then I did 30 min of dumbell work (flyes, rows, curls, extensions, lunges, and squats) and some abs. Now I can spend the whole day doing laundry and grading papers for over 200 students so I can do report cards tomorrow. Jenn > >LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is > >still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for eating, but it makes you just as fat. I have needed to work on > separating having fun from eating.) This is my exact problem, too. My worst time was vacations. The past couple of years I've tried to include bike riding, swimming or some other form of exercise in the vacations. It certainly has helped as you don't feel like stuffing yourself when you know you have another 10-15 miles to ride. Fall festivals were another problem until my daughter and I started riding to them from a nearby town. I'm like you - I need to separate food and fun. Beverly > I hope you're feeling happier and stronger today. > > Chris Definately... I associate alot of happy times with eating. I need to work on those associations, so that I don't look to food as making me happy. I'm like you - I need to separate food > and fun. > > Beverly > >LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is > >still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for eating, but it makes you just as fat. I have needed to work on > separating having fun from eating.) I can eat for any reason, but any emotional high or low triggers an eating response. If I am sad, I use the food as my narcotic. If I am happy or have done something great, or someone in my family does something great, my impulse is to reward with food. One thing that puzzles me is how I could give up smoking (18 years ago) with no problem..never looked back, alcohol has no attraction for me (not against it, just really rarely drink it) and yet something so simple and basic as food has such a strong hold on me. Elise. > I hope you're feeling happier and stronger today. > > Chris I think it may be harder to give up on a food addiction since you HAVE to eat to survive. There is no way that you can avoid food. A compulsion doesn't have to make sense and is rarely rational. Why does an alcoholic choose booze over food??? We associate food with family or going out and having a good time. Many offices have it catered in and it provides a break from work. We associate food with warmth and sustenance. There is no logic as to why we over-indulge. It is very individualistic. For me, it is for comfort when I am depressed or lonely. When I am happy and feeling good, I have less of a reason to want to sabotage myself. When I am upset, I use it to succor me. I don't have all the answers, if I did, I wouldn't be fat.... 284/235/199/??? One thing that puzzles me is how I could > give up smoking (18 years ago) with no problem..never looked back, alcohol > has no attraction for me (not against it, just really rarely drink it) and > yet something so simple and basic as food has such a strong hold on me. > Elise. >> sorry to hear that Jennifer. We all have our old demons and they do >> come back to haunt us. You see, this is true even if we do not like [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have > to keep calories in close check. I had the same experience and, I think, the explanation. The explanation is that while you are in the dieting mode, your glycogen and other water based energy stores are low. They are not as energy dense as fat and therefore, if you eat too many calories, they go into these watery stores and greatly increase yoru weight. What this means is that if you reach 145 lbs you have not reached true equilibrium 145 weight. Also, some of your 5 lbs gain is something that will come out of you tomorrow. What did you binge on? To sympathize with you further, I also gained 2 lbs since yesterday. We had a Halloween party at our friends where I did eat into the night and drank. I tried to moderate my eating, so it was not a binge, but I did overeat and gained 2 lbs. So I am 178 instead of 186. > Binges have a lot more consequences than pounds gained. I don't think > there's a binge eater out there that doesn't know it. As we've said before, > knowing it's wrong, understanding it has bad consequences, etc. is not going > to stop it. It's an irrational impulse that at times is so overwhelming > it's *extremely difficult* to resist. not being an expert... if you recognize you are in the middle of a binge... can you get out of the house for a walk with no food on you and no money? > I'm not going to say impossible > because there are people who do it. I've resisted many a time, but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > even survived grocery shopping. I went down 1 pound today and I am > continuing to work on the issues that brought it on in the first place. Yep, keep working on it, like I said earlier, watch yourself like a hawk. I was right all along about the risk of regaining, which I am not saying for gloating purposes, but rather to underscore that it is better to be too vigilant than not enough vigilant. i 223/178/180 > > LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is > > still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have > > to keep calories in close check. > I had the same experience and, I think, the explanation. The > explanation is that while you are in the dieting mode, your glycogen > and other water based energy stores are low. They are not as energy > dense as fat and therefore, if you eat too many calories, they go into > these watery stores and greatly increase yoru weight. > What this means is that if you reach 145 lbs you have not reached true > equilibrium 145 weight. What it means is I'm chock full of water and other stuff that will wash out over the course of the next day or two if I just drink enough water and don't overeat for the next few days. > To sympathize with you further, I also gained 2 lbs since > yesterday. We had a Halloween party at our friends where I did eat into > the night and drank. I tried to moderate my eating, so it was not a > binge, but I did overeat and gained 2 lbs. So I am 178 instead of 186. It's water. My weight has fluctuated +/- 2 pounds daily. Always has, always will. > not being an expert... if you recognize you are in the middle of a > binge... can you get out of the house for a walk with no food on you > and no money? Probably. That's the secret to conquering the impulse - catch it and divert it. I live in the middle of nowhere in a forest. I could leave the house with $100 but without a car I could just feed it to the owls. If I had been able to stop myself long enough to get dressed and go outside (it was in the 20's), I wouldn't have binged in the first place. There are plenty of times the urge hits - not as strongly - and I'm able to go find something to distract me. At work I go brush my teeth if it's my lunch or other non-class time. > > I am responsible for the behavior and my actions and that sometimes makes > > the problem worse because there really is no one to blame but myself - which [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > i > 223/178/180 I don't know what you think you were right about. I never said there wasn't a risk of regaining. Because you have decided to go back to ignorant condescention mode I will explain for the fiftieth time - I am vigilant but since my weight fluctuates by +/- 2 pounds DAILY, I have no need to panic over a pound or two. The 5 pounds is mostly water because it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to gain 5 pounds of actual weight unless you consume 17,500 calories more than you burn off - and I'm burning off calories at only a slightly lower than typical rate for someone of my weight and activity level. VIGILANCE DOESN'T STOP COMPUSIVE BINGE EATING. If anything, it may exacerbate it because in some cases like mine, binges are tied to a self-defeating, self-punishment. Any indication of failure may trigger the feelings that I don't deserve to be happy or something and find ways to hurt myself, in my case that would be overeating. If you still refuse to read and understand that you can't rationalize this and regimentation only makes the situation worse, let me know and I'll use smaller words next time. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge Hey Jenn, He and alot of people who don't suffer from a compulsive disorder can't understand what it is like. I don't think he'll ever understand what you or anyone with our disorder suffers through every day. You are just wasting the typing energy for no reason.... I identify with so many of your posts, due to the feeling that I am going thru similar things that you went through 6 months before me. Reading your posts and seeing what you are going through has helped me immensely on my journey. If nothing else, I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your honesty in this NG. > VIGILANCE DOESN'T STOP COMPUSIVE BINGE EATING. If anything, it may > exacerbate it because in some cases like mine, binges are tied to a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge > Hey Jenn, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > through has helped me immensely on my journey. If nothing else, I wanted to > let you know that I appreciate your honesty in this NG. Thanks. It's like paying it forward. I've received help from "anonymous" strangers and hope that I can give some where needed. Glad to know I'm helping. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > Hey Jenn, > > He and alot of people who don't suffer from a compulsive disorder can't > understand what it is like. Exactly. I know what it's like. I don't think he'll ever understand what you or > anyone with our disorder suffers through every day. He will never understand; ever. You are just wasting > the typing energy for no reason.... I identify with so many of your posts, > due to the feeling that I am going thru similar things that you went through > 6 months before me. Reading your posts and seeing what you are going > through has helped me immensely on my journey. If nothing else, I wanted to > let you know that I appreciate your honesty in this NG. Me too. I always have that shadow following me. I've binged many times, due to a variety of reasons. It made me laugh when he said "bingeing on vegetables". As if!!!!!!! Yeah, sure, whatever, Know-It-All. All the times I binged it was NEVER on veggies! I wish he would stop thinking he knows everything. Jennifer, you are courageous and will conquer this. : ) Martha Come on, I remember those college days... Everyone ate pizza a beer and wanted me to join them.... But NOOOOOOOOOOOO, I turned them all down. Instead, I hid in my dorm room and secretly ate brocolli, cauliflower and cabbage. It was my secret, I lived in fear of being discovered. I felt so alone, so gaseous, so regular. I was an outcast..... Geez, all of the pain is back. I thought that I escaped my past. *sob* I think I have some cabbage in my fridge now... BRB. > It made me laugh when he said "bingeing on vegetables". As if!!!!!!! Yeah, > sure, whatever, Know-It-All. All the times I binged it was NEVER on veggies! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Martha >Come on, I remember those college days... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >outcast..... Geez, all of the pain is back. I thought that I escaped my >past. *sob* I think I have some cabbage in my fridge now... BRB. You know what they always say..."When life gives you cabbage, make coleslaw!" Well...um...it went something like that. beeswing I would make *something else* LOL -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > beeswing > Come on, I remember those college days... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > outcast..... Geez, all of the pain is back. I thought that I escaped my > past. *sob* I think I have some cabbage in my fridge now... BRB. ROFL!!!!!!!!! : D Now THAT was funny! Martha > I don't think he'll ever understand what you or > > anyone with our disorder suffers through every day. > > He will never understand; ever. You got that right. Why would he even try when he knows all of the answers? If the name fits... > You are just wasting > > the typing energy for no reason.... I identify with so many of your [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > sure, whatever, Know-It-All. All the times I binged it was NEVER on veggies! > I wish he would stop thinking he knows everything. Actually in my original post I did mention that I started the binge with veggies cause that was all that was in the fridge. I had a bunch of cooked squash that tastes really good with butter buds and it just went from there... > Jennifer, you are courageous and will conquer this. : ) > > Martha Thanks Martha. > Actually in my original post I did mention that I started the binge with > veggies cuz that was all that was in the fridge. I had a bunch of > cooked squash that tastes really good with butter buds and it just went > from there... Jennifer, two things come to mind when I read this. You said you're only eating around 10% fat. I find that I need more like 25-30% fat to feel sated. The other thing is that I need to have refeeds once in a while. It physiological in nature: something about leptin. It's not a matter of me being bad or willpower failing or whatever, it's a matter of dealing with the hand I'm dealt and learning to work the body I've got. So, if I found myself eating everything in the fridge I'd sit back and think about what my body needed. Was I eating everything until I finally got 10 grams of fat? Were you eating because you're just feeding your body too few calories? I mean, honestly, how can you run a 5K on 1300 calories? I'd also think about what it was that I was needing emotionally. Was I eating everything until I managed to pass two boring hours? Was I eating everything because it was something to do instead of cry over what was making me sad? I guess the take home message I'm trying to say is that you need to examine what is inherently wrong with your plan if you can't keep to it. A sustainable WOL means it's something you can do. It's not YOU failing your plan, it's your plan failing you if it doesn't take into account your physical and emotional needs. -- Wendy > > Actually in my original post I did mention that I started the binge with > > veggies cuz that was all that was in the fridge. I had a bunch of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > matter of me being bad or willpower failing or whatever, it's a matter of > dealing with the hand I'm dealt and learning to work the body I've got. > So, if I found myself eating everything in the fridge I'd sit back and > think about what my body needed. Was I eating everything until I finally > got 10 grams of fat? Were you eating because you're just feeding your > body too few calories? I mean, honestly, how can you run a 5K on 1300 > calories? Well, I had no choice really since I was making the transition from 800 cal/day. Actually I run the equivalent of 3-4 5K races every week and was doing it on 800 cal/day. Now I'm up to 1400 cal/day and will probably go higher since I'm still losing. I can't increase too fast because I get sick (usually mild but still unpleasant) when I add new foods, especially those with fat. One major change is that I am weaning off the HMR entrees as of Tuesday and eating my own proteins and adding more fat. My goal is to get to 20% fat and stay around 30% protein. Another change is that I am eating whenever I need to and not caring about how much I've already eaten that day (not checking the log to "see if it's ok"). *That* is a big mental shift. I need to get over the fear that I'm going to wake up and be 300 pounds again. I know mentally that isn't ever going to happen, but ya know it's only been a short time. As long as I stick to foods on my WOE, I'm fine and I know that in my brain. The dietician challenged me to take a day and just "make good choices" and then at the end of the day log it all and see how I did. Turned out to be a pretty good day and I came in too low on the calories (1200), but I wasn't hungry and decided not to eat more just to get to 1400 because I was tired and decided sleep was more important :) You're right that my body needs more and it's getting it. I even switched from fat-free to low-fat products, including soy cheese and cooking with a little olive oil instead of just no-stick spray. I had a salad in a restaurant the other day and had a small amount of regular dressing with it - just used a little bit, and yet I was more satisfied than with a fat free one. > I'd also think about what it was that I was needing emotionally. Was I > eating everything until I managed to pass two boring hours? Was I eating [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -- Wendy I agree with you 100%. You're not the first person to tell me this since Friday and I've taken it to heart. Like you said, just decided this was how it was going to be and so be it. I listened to my body, stayed in my WOE, exercised regularly and had a successful road trip. I was concerned about the scale when I got home last night but chose to wait until this morning to get on it. All was well. I'm down another pound from Tuesday and I don't want to be (my size 8's are starting to get loose) so I'll see what's up this weekend and make more adjustments and add calories. It's going to be a period of adjusting the WOE to find what I can live with and so be it. I had one bad day. It doesn't make me a miserable failure, it only gives me something to work with. SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge >> > LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My > metabolism is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > over the course of the next day or two if I just drink enough water and > don't overeat for the next few days. No, water based glycogen stores wil lnot wash out unless you have energy deficit. >> To sympathize with you further, I also gained 2 lbs since >> yesterday. We had a Halloween party at our friends where I did eat into [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's water. My weight has fluctuated +/- 2 pounds daily. Always has, > always will. Right, some of it is water weight, some glycogen, some fat. The more pounds, the more fat. >> not being an expert... if you recognize you are in the middle of a >> binge... can you get out of the house for a walk with no food on you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > me. At work I go brush my teeth if it's my lunch or other non-class > time. Diversion seems to be a good tactic. >> Yep, keep working on it, like I said earlier, watch yourself like a >> hawk. I was right all along about the risk of regaining, which I am [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > slightly lower than typical rate for someone of my weight and activity > level. I already explained to you how you regained your glycogen stores. > VIGILANCE DOESN'T STOP COMPUSIVE BINGE EATING. If anything, it may > exacerbate it because in some cases like mine, binges are tied to a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > understand that you can't rationalize this and regimentation only makes the > situation worse, let me know and I'll use smaller words next time. And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last binge? I somehow start to doubt all those rationalizations Jennifer. All this pshychobabble about self punishment, as far as I understand, has never been rigorously tested in any clinical trials. The fact that binge eating is "associated" with low self image and so on is quite obvious, given the bingers condition. Next time you start binging, put on your jacket and go for a walk. Do not keep any junk food in your house. Instead of obsessing about psychology, try concentrating on objective, measurable things like what foods you buy and have in the house, how much you weigh etc. You spent so much money and effort on this weight loss, you now need to put a similar amount in preventing binge eating. i > And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last > binge? None of your damn business. > I somehow start to doubt all those rationalizations Jennifer. All this > pshychobabble about self punishment, as far as I understand, has never > been rigorously tested in any clinical trials. The fact that binge > eating is "associated" with low self image and so on is quite obvious, > given the bingers condition. I'm not rationalizing, but explaining the process. >Next time you start binging, put on your jacket and go for a walk. Do > not keep any junk food in your house. Instead of obsessing about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > i When you decide to take your head out of your a.s I'll give your bullshit replies some consideration. You've been told by those with the experience how it works and you still think life is simply black and white and "just do it" is an answer. I'm done with you. Yeah Jenn, You spent alot of time and money, just don't binge per Ig... that's the ticket!! He knows what causes binging, he has the answer... don't doubt him!!! -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last > > binge? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > how it works and you still think life is simply black and white and "just do > it" is an answer. I'm done with you. > Yeah Jenn, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Email me at: > perpleglow(AT)comcast.net Just say no, that's it. Yeah... Martha Yeah, it is simple.... why didn't I think of that :) -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > Yeah Jenn, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Martha >Yeah Jenn, > >You spent alot of time and money, just don't binge per Ig... that's the >ticket!! He knows what causes binging, he has the answer... don't doubt >him!!! As you may have seen in a recent thread I tried to explain binge eating behaviour to Ig. in answer to his questions, but I really believe the gap in understanding is just too big for people like this who haven't had first hand experience to grasp the concept. I'm tired of seeing advice handed out by someone who doesn't appear to understand the first thing about the issues involved. janice >>Yeah Jenn, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > understand the first thing about the issues involved. > janice Actually, I did have periodic overeating to the point of being very uncomfortable. Maybe I am not a wretched binger, like some here, however, there is no doubt in my mind that I had a developing eating disorder. I was just able to look at my situation rationally and stop bad behavior (to date). i 223/176/180 Ok so let me get this straight.... other people here, besides you, are wretched bingers???? -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > >>Yeah Jenn, > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > i > 223/176/180 > Ok so let me get this straight.... other people here, besides you, are > wretched bingers???? that's exactly what they have been saying, that they binge, that it is out of control, that simple things like not eating bad foods do not help, that nothing at all was helpful etc etc. i >> >>Yeah Jenn, >> >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> i >> 223/176/180 > > And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last > > binge? > None of your damn business. I have been waiting SO long for someone to say this in response to I's questions! >> And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last >> binge? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > how it works and you still think life is simply black and white and "just do > it" is an answer. I'm done with you. let's see how far your rationalizations will get you... i > > And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last > > binge? > None of your damn business. Indeed it is not. Who does he think he is? A doctor??? That's a laugh. Oh that's right, doctors are stupid, aren't they. Martha Good for you Jennifer...people who do not have this hang up with food will never understand it. I hate people who just say..."Well, don't eat it" like it's as easy as "Well, don't stab yourself with that knife". It's hard, very hard. Ilive with one of these people. You are going to succeed. Elise. > > And what is it that you were punishing yourself for during your last > > binge? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > how it works and you still think life is simply black and white and "just do > it" is an answer. I'm done with you. > Good for you Jennifer...people who do not have this hang up with food will > never understand it. I hate people who just say..."Well, don't eat it" > like it's as easy as "Well, don't stab yourself with that knife". It's > hard, very hard. Ilive with one of these people. You are going to succeed. > Elise. Thanks Elise. I'm just so done with giving a crap about what stupid people think. That's been a part of my hangup in life and I decided I'm just done. I have more than enough I can focus on without trying to teach pigs to sing. :) Sorry to hear that you have to live with someone like that. I only live with DH and he gets it because it happens to him though not like it used to before we were married. I'm lucky to have the support that I do. Jenn > LOL - try 5 pounds. I went from 140 back to 145 in 1 day. My metabolism is > still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have > to keep calories in close check. **I bet it is mainly water weight and won't stay on you! > Binges have a lot more consequences than pounds gained. I don't think > there's a binge eater out there that doesn't know it. As we've said before, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sometimes life beats you down and you get tired of fighting or you just go > into autopilot and start. **Agreed. DH is also a binge eater and we've never kept > chips, crackers, cookies, etc. in our home. The preferred binge foods have > always been leftovers or foods picked up from the store or fast food joint > for the sole purpose of binge eating. **His pictures on your website don't show him to be overweight. Does he have a weight problem too OR is he one of those people that can eat whatever they want??? > I am responsible for the behavior and my actions and that sometimes makes > the problem worse because there really is no one to blame but myself - which > can lead to more self destruction but didn't. I got through it. I didn't > compound the problem by going out and buying what I really wanted to eat. I > even survived grocery shopping. I went down 1 pound today and I am > continuing to work on the issues that brought it on in the first place. **Grocery shopping is the hardest thing to do.... congrats on that. > -- > Jenn > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge > DH is also a binge eater and we've never kept > > chips, crackers, cookies, etc. in our home. The preferred binge foods [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have a weight problem too OR is he one of those people that can eat whatever > they want??? He is no more than 25-30 lbs from his ideal weight. His weight fluctuates with his work. If he's outside doing a lot of field work, he can eat all he wants. When he's in the office or in the classroom (he also teaches) a lot, he puts on pounds. He's also finding that getting older is making it harder to maintain his weight. > > I am responsible for the behavior and my actions and that sometimes makes > > the problem worse because there really is no one to blame but myself - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > continuing to work on the issues that brought it on in the first place. > **Grocery shopping is the hardest thing to do.... congrats on that. I made sure I ate a nice smoothie (raspberries and HMR) before going. It helps. > > sorry to hear that Jennifer. We all have our old demons and they do > > come back to haunt us. You see, this is true even if we do not like [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > still not normal which is why despite my level of physical activity, I have > to keep calories in close check. I find it curious that you state your metabolism is still not normal....is this from the HMR or from the years of binge eating? If from the years of binge eating, have your classes indicated to you about how long, if it ever will be so, for it to approach normal (a lot of self interest in this question). > Binges have a lot more consequences than pounds gained. I don't think > there's a binge eater out there that doesn't know it. As we've said before, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > always been leftovers or foods picked up from the store or fast food joint > for the sole purpose of binge eating. I think it must have been the solar flares and the ensuing magnetic storm. Seriously, I can sympathize with you on hitting the fridge for emotional succor. I tend to hit the pantry for any emotional high or low, so I know how hard it is to deal with that impulse. However, that you ate only veggies and HMR foods is incredible. I certainly would have been in the car in a shot the next morning, if not before. Your honesty with yourself is probably the best medicine for you and your honesty with others via this newsgroup is very inspiring. I love that phrase "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" Your setback and emotional grit to deal with it I bet will make you better equipped to handle the next upset in your life. Good luck. Elise. > I am responsible for the behavior and my actions and that sometimes makes > the problem worse because there really is no one to blame but myself - which > can lead to more self destruction but didn't. I got through it. I didn't > compound the problem by going out and buying what I really wanted to eat. I > even survived grocery shopping. I went down 1 pound today and I am > continuing to work on the issues that brought it on in the first place. > I find it curious that you state your metabolism is still not normal....is > this from the HMR > or from the years of binge eating? If from the years of binge eating, have > your classes indicated to you about how long, if it ever will be so, for it > to > approach normal (a lot of self interest in this question). Being on an 800 cal/day diet is tough on the system and I did that for 37 weeks. It brings down the BMR (base metabolic rate) in spite of exercise. There were times I was borderline starvation. The transition is 8 weeks and that should be enough to get the system going properly. Technically I should be able to maintain on 1600 (11 cal/pd) with extra for the intense exercise. It's possible that barring water shifts I can maintain on that now but I'm working my way up slowly. I'm up to 1300-1400 now. If I maintain or lose over the course of a week, I increase 100 cal. If I were to gain, I'd stay at the level of the previous week. The binge thing in the past just meant I was consuming 3000 cal/day with minimal exercise. > I think it must have been the solar flares and the ensuing magnetic storm. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you better equipped to handle the next upset in your life. Good luck. > Elise. I subscribe to that same belief : "that which does not kill us makes us stronger." I also think that by not hiding the problem as in the past, I need to just be open and honest about it and not let it be my dirty little secret anymore. Hopefully exposure to the light of day will help to kill it. Jenn Cox wrote: > I love that phrase "that which does not kill us makes us >stronger" Not to be contentious, but I, on the other hand, hate that phrase. My response has always been "I never asked to be this strong." beeswing, whose emotional baggage is showing My favorite response to that remark is: Even a strong person has a breaking point. I know, I've been there... -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > beeswing, > whose emotional baggage is showing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > beeswing, > whose emotional baggage is showing I know what you mean. I get frustrated about why I'm tested on a too regular basis. I do what I can to accept it and deal since really there is no alternative. Hi Ig, Per her original post, she didn't keep binge foods at her house... she mainly ate the shakes and HMR meals that are on her health plan. -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > sorry to hear that Jennifer. We all have our old demons and they do > come back to haunt us. You see, this is true even if we do not like [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > > share the difficulties. Jenn, you described this so well it set off mixed emotions in me. You've probably seen me say here more than once that I regard my binge behaviour as in remission, but not cured. It shows that many of us still revert to whatever our own response tends to be to other issues in life, and in our case it's to binge. I know so well the experience of eating whatever happens to be in the house when the urge to binge becomes impossible to subdue. The difference with me is that after doing what you did in the evening I almost certainly would have gone out the next morning and deliberately bought some "real" binge foods as I would have felt cheated at not having had a "proper" binge by being forced to eat what was to hand, rather than what I would have really wanted. This can then lead to days or even weeks before I get back properly onto my WOE. In that sense, you showed a lot more strength than I would have done in the same situation. I'm the last person to try and give you advice as I have so much difficulty myself. But you know that the first thing is to get back into what you were doing with regard to your WOL before this happened, Also to be aware (as you obviously are) that this may happen again and all you can do is try to learn from it and prepare for how to deal with it. You were lucky to have such a good friend as yours to work through it with afterwards. Stay strong - you just cannot undo what you've achieved! janice >Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I >can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to >share the difficulties. > Jenn, you described this so well it set off mixed emotions in me. > You've probably seen me say here more than once that I regard my binge [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > sense, you showed a lot more strength than I would have done in the > same situation. I normally would have gone to the store in spite of the time of night and piled on the junk food, come home and eat it all. We never keep that stuff in the house because both DH and I are compulsive (except he just seems to self-regulate to compensate for it because he's only 25 lbs. overweight in spite of how he eats). I seriously thought about going out and getting stuff thinking "I already blew it, might as well enjoy it." The next morning I was tempted to get in the car and hit the McD's drive-thru instead of running. Luckly those actions take a lot of work and aren't automatic so I was easily able to get the thoughts out of my head. I didn't get in my car till after I had run and felt like I was in control again. > I'm the last person to try and give you advice as I have so much > difficulty myself. But you know that the first thing is to get back [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with it. You were lucky to have such a good friend as yours to work > through it with afterwards. Your advice is welcome, that's why I post. I made sure to just start the day clean. Even though I ate very first thing, it was fruit and it was allowed. It just could have interfered with my run which is why I got angry with myself. I recognized right away that I was starting to sabbotage myself. > Stay strong - you just cannot undo what you've achieved! > janice Sadly, I can undo it. I've seen it happen to a lot of people. Fortunately, I *refuse* to undo it. My support systems fell into place and got quite the workout. I'm very lucky to have the few close friends I do that understand me as a person. Because I'm traveling again this week I had to do some cooking yesterday and I'll be doing some today in order to have healthy food with me on the trip. Everything went immediately into the freezer rather than the fridge. That's one strategy I put in place to help, plus I got a new vaccum sealer and I need to freeze cooked foods so I can put them in those cool bags :) I'll also be working out of my office all day instead of the living room - less proximity to the kitchen and it's warmer in here anyway. Thanks fo the support. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge >> Stay strong - you just cannot undo what you've achieved! >> janice [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >workout. I'm very lucky to have the few close friends I do that understand >me as a person. Sorry Jenn, just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding. By "cannot" I meant it in the sense of "must not" not in the sense that it wasn't possible. (Perhaps we use the word slightly differently where I am). I of all people know that it is highly possible to undo everything. I can put back 8 lbs in 2 days and know from experience that this can be the beginning of putting back the whole lot over a much shorter time than it took to lose it. I can't tell you how to stay on track, but I can tell you you're not alone in the issues you face. janice > >> Stay strong - you just cannot undo what you've achieved! > >> janice [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > janice As an english teacher, I sometimes get fussy over my own word choice which is my problem, not yours :) You've been very supportive and it is nice to talk to others like you who go through the same thing. Jenn Jenn wrote to janice: >As an english teacher, I sometimes get fussy over my own word choice which >is my problem, not yours :) Sorry, but I perversely enjoyed this discussion, having been raised by a mother with a master's degree in English, who hammered on me that: can = to be able to. may = to be permitted or allowed to. I think my kid might be the only 8-year-old on the planet to know the difference between "can" and "may" and to be able to use them correctly in a sentence. :) I can't pontificate on "must," thank goodness. I'm thinking of you both warmly as I write this. Jenn, good going for pulling yourself out of the binge the next day. Hi, janice; I hope you are doing well. *WAVES.* beeswing, um...well...editor > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > beeswing, > um...well...editor I love words. I am actually the computer teacher who got roped into teaching a section of english a few years ago. I always hated writing, but excelled at the mechanics of spelling, vocabulary and grammar. I worked on it and became much better at the writing part and that has helped my kids. Sadly I had to give up my english class last week (we change quarters tomorrow) because I was "promoted" to district technology coordinator this summer so I needed the extra 40 min. a day in my schedule to get those duties cared for (though it's a full time position). This is one of the major causes of my stress, trying to be a f/t teacher and administrator. Do you ever listen to "Says You" on NPR? It's one of my favorite quiz shows! Jenn Jenn wrote: >Do you ever listen to "Says You" on NPR? It's one of my favorite quiz >shows! No, I don't listen to NPR. Maybe I should? beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > beeswing It's a quiz show dealing with words and their origins and uses. It's quite humorous. You can also download it from audible.com. Their website is http://www.wgbh.org/radio/saysyou/ It's for word geeks :) Jenn > > x-no-archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > duties cared for (though it's a full time position). This is one of the > major causes of my stress, trying to be a f/t teacher and administrator. What a great discussion! After publishing my own music magazine, and being a journalist major in college, I love words and writing. I cringe when I hear people speaking or writing incorrectly. I enjoy the technical aspects of writing. I guess I was lucky, because I had great professors in college. Martha > What a great discussion! After publishing my own music magazine, and being a > journalist major in college, I love words and writing. I cringe when I hear > people speaking or writing incorrectly. I enjoy the technical aspects of > writing. I guess I was lucky, because I had great professors in college. > > Martha Same here...great professors that is. My first few experiences in college weren't fantastic (engineering then business school), but when I went back to school in my late 20's to become a teacher I started out at a local 2-yr school (the nearest Univ. was 100 mi away). I took a ton of "liberal arts" classes I never dreamed of taking before and nearly all involved writing. I had a philosophy professor who took note that in class discussion I was very astute and able to express myself well, but I could not do so on the essay exams. He took some time with me to explain some things that I'd never learned before about writing. When I went to school we learned mechanics but never the process or *how* to write. He spent time with me and my writing improved greatly. He was very thrilled that I was able to write an award winning master's thesis only a few years later. Jenn > > What a great discussion! After publishing my own music magazine, and being > a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jenn My best professor was an English professor. She was blind and the toughest grader I've ever had. She was also an awesome teacher and became a friend of everyone in the class for years. She used to have parties at her house. She was incredible. Martha >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >beeswing, >um...well...editor Hi Beeswing (waving back). I just feel I have to say that I'm posting from the UK and there are many instances where we use words slightly differently from you in the US (all part of life's rich diversity!). I could list quite a few if you asked me to. In this instance, if I say "you just cannot do this" I don't mean it's beyond your capability or not possible to do it, I mean more like "I just won't let you" but it has far more emphasis than if I were to say "you may not do this". Hard to explain the subtle difference. We do have the same issue with kids saying "can I..." when they really mean "may I..." and this is frequently pointed out to them by adults - it was the same when I was a kid - nothing changes! janice (who's probably added to the confusion) >Hi Beeswing (waving back). I just feel I have to say that I'm posting >from the UK and there are many instances where we use words slightly [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >janice (who's probably added to the confusion) Yup, I understand that. I wasn't trying to override your distinction. It was just that the whole thing made me think about when I was growing up, when my mother would say repeatedly, "Yes, I know you can. But *may* you?" And the fact that it drove me batty at the time, but I'm happy to know the distinction now and to be able to pass it along to my kid -- who may or may not appreciate it in the long run as much as I have. beeswing, who understands a little British English Another thought for Jennifer. It is good that you are posting here and it is good that you are completely honest. This may be verybeneficial to you as far as keeping yourself under control. i 223/178/180 > Another thought for Jennifer. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > i > 223/178/180 Ya think? Jenn, you ahve come so far in a relatively short time, some habits take longer to change than other, don't let this one set back be the start, get back in control, you can do it!. Talkingt o friend is agood idea, maybe you can do this earlier next time. Take care of yourself and forgive yourself and start a new. Michelle Ozzie in Switzerland WW WI 69.8 / 63.1 / 61kg 134 lbs >Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I >can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to >share the difficulties. > The war is just beginning. The battles are not easy. I am not as strong as > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > share the difficulties. Jenn, I'm glad you decided to share your experience with us. I'm so glad you were able to bring it under control and I'm sure you'll be just as successful should it occur again. You've come so far and I know you'll find what it takes to get through this... Beverly >The war is just beginning. The battles are not easy. I am not as strong as >I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to >share the difficulties. Jenn, I don't think the war is EVER over. We fight battles and skirmishes, and sometimes a peace breaks out, but it's always there, waiting for a slip in attention or attitude. You've done amazing. And thank you for posting this - I've been struggling this past week and can't seem to get my head back where it needs to be. Best, Kimba --You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better. Maya Angelou > >The war is just beginning. The battles are not easy. I am not as strong as > >I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > --You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better. Maya Angelou Thanks Kimba. I hope that by putting my experience out there someone might feel less alone. Hopefully you'll find a way to get your head back. It takes time. I've had years and years of therapy and treatment to deal with my issues. It had given me some things to work with on my own and with those who know me best. Sometimes it just helps to do one nice thing just for you. I did all kinds of nice things for myself yesterday from working out to ignoring the clock and doing things at a leisurely pace to getting my hair done. I hope you find what works for you. Please let me know if I can help in any way. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge >Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I >can maintain my status as a fallible human. It was never in question. Seriously. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970827.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I > can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > share the difficulties. Honestly, this isn't a healthy approach you are taking for maintenance when you fall off the wagon (i.e. punishing yourself by running). I had lost 70 pounds years ago and have kept them off since except for the being pregnant part. Maintenance has been and still is easy for me as I learned to let go of the emotional issues and learned the "food is fuel" lesson. I used to be a compulsive binger for a very long time and ate for every reason under the sun. Punishing yourself like this is unhealthy and highly counterproductive. You are making food and weight a moral issue for you. It appears that you haven't learned the meaning of maintenance yet (which you could have been learning from the start while losing weight), and I hope you will. Find other solutions for when you are angry, sad, frustrated, etc. You can choose to make things difficult for yourself, or you can choose to make things easy for yourself. It's your choice. Forgive yourself and MOVE ON. If you ate 1300 extra calories, so what? Deduct 50 or 100 calories from your caloric intake for the next several days. Maintenance is about choosing alternatives and making back-up plans and LETTING GO of the good food/bad food/punishment/inner fighting three-ring-circus. Does this mean I always eat perfectly? No, there may be some times when I slightly overeat due to restaurant menus or eating at the family's. Do I punish myself for not eating perfectly? No, I just make corrections to my WOE and move on. Good luck. > Honestly, this isn't a healthy approach you are taking for > maintenance when you fall off the wagon (i.e. punishing yourself by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > weight), and I hope you will. Find other solutions for when you are > angry, sad, frustrated, etc. Very wisely stated. But I bet Jennifer will have an excuse that "she is different". Food is fuel, watch your weight, do not make food into more than what it is, do not eat bad foods. Somehow some people are denying that this approach works. > You can choose to make things difficult for yourself, or you can > choose to make things easy for yourself. It's your choice. Forgive [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > punish myself for not eating perfectly? No, I just make corrections > to my WOE and move on. You do not need to consider running punishment though. It could just be a way to get the calories balanced again. Congratulations on combatting your food issues. Since I am just merely 2 months into maintenance, I cannot claim the same credentials as you, but I hope that I will be able to hold to my plan as years go by. i > Honestly, this isn't a healthy approach you are taking for maintenance when > you fall off the wagon (i.e. punishing yourself by running). I had lost 70 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > learning from the start while losing weight), and I hope you will. Find > other solutions for when you are angry, sad, frustrated, etc. You misinterpreted my running. It was not punishment, it is how I release my aggravation at times and is a reward at others. Running makes me feel better about myself and is a way I challenge myself. I have a race next week and I wanted to run hard and fast to see if I could stop holding myself back and improve my time. I try to do at least one very hard run each week weather permitting. I don't run when injured and would have stopped if there was any pain. That I was able to stop the b.s. that was keeping me from running yesterday morning was an accomplishment for me. Normally I would have made an excuse not to do it and sat around. According to my physician, my therapist, and my own experience, exercise is a completely appropriate way to deal with anger, sadness, or frustration. > You can choose to make things difficult for yourself, or you can choose to > make things easy for yourself. It's your choice. Forgive yourself and MOVE [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > restaurant menus or eating at the family's. Do I punish myself for not > eating perfectly? No, I just make corrections to my WOE and move on. As posted more than once, I did let it go. I took care of me and started working out some things. I spent the day yesterday doing things for myself. I did not care for the way I went about eating those extra calories. I was not punishing myself for not eating perfectly. I was using the food to punish myself, not because food is bad, but because sometimes I think I don't deserve to be happy and my weight has always played a part in how I feel about myself. Therefore, uncontrollably stuffing my face until I am physically ill and in pain is punishment. There were other circumstances that had nothing to do with food that started the whole thing. I also didn't "slightly overeat" though I have done that here and there in the last few weeks and it's no BFD. You might not realize this but I'm only a few weeks into maintenance and technically still in transition. I'm just getting my sea legs here. I need to stay within a pretty strict plan for now. Again, the binge eating was about a loss of control, not so much what I chose or how much. Eventually I will be able to cut loose and be "normal." I'll be able to manage making good choices, and enjoy some not-so-good choices. I'll be able to fully enjoy restaurants and celebrations. Right now I need to stay within the structure of my program until I am comfortable and ready. I don't expect to be perfect which is also something I've posted on numerous occasions. Trying to be perfect would definitely lead to too many problems. I also don't associate food with morality. Good to know things are working for you. It's encouraging to hear about people being able to conquer it. I'll get there, just don't rush me. <snip for space> Okay, then I perhaps misunderstood the part about running based on what you wrote the following: > I decided to run, but fought with the urge to just screw it all and lay > around and eat more. I got downstairs for water, etc. and started eating [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I was able to snap out of it and get my butt moving, and actually I was so > angry that I ran harder and faster than I've ever done. I refused to let up > no matter how hard it was to breathe, You were having an inner screaming match and then angry where you ran harder and faster, regardless of how hard it was to breathe. It was the part that concerned me. It looked to me like you were angry and punishing yourself for overeating. You couldn't breathe. This was how I as a compulsive binger had 'punished' myself in the past with various actions after a binge, and it never worked. That's adding fire to the fire in a manner of speaking. Exercise is a useful tool, I agree, for releasing emotions, but it should be done with caution at your own pace. It shouldn't be used to beat your body when you are angry, KWIM? You could have injuries as a result. I don't think this is a healthy way of approaching exercise in this state of anger. You did fine, though, by talking to your friend and letting it out. That's one of the healthy outlets and use it often. I know I am being preachy, sorry, but your original post struck a chord in me because I had been there, done that years ago before I achieved success. I only wanted to let you know that maintenance doesn't have to be this way you described. Congrats for finishing your goal and best wishes to your maintenance. > You were having an inner screaming match and then angry where you ran harder > and faster, regardless of how hard it was to breathe. It was the part that > concerned me. It looked to me like you were angry and punishing yourself for > overeating. You couldn't breathe. This was how I as a compulsive binger had > 'punished' myself in the past with various actions after a binge, and it > never worked. That's adding fire to the fire in a manner of speaking. I can see where you can misunderstand my intentions in the run. Fast and hard were good for me because it got out my aggression. I sometimes yell when I run - sort of a primal scream thing - but I live in a very rural area and no one hears :) I should have made it more clear that I would definitely stop if I was in pain. The breathing thing is more related to the cold and my aversion to breathing really hard due to past respiratory problems (that are now gone). If I was really having problem breathing I also would have stopped. I was in total control in my run, just really pissed at my attitude. The next day's run was much slower and easier because my legs were kind of stiff. > Exercise is a useful tool, I agree, for releasing emotions, but it should be > done with caution at your own pace. It shouldn't be used to beat your body [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Congrats for finishing your goal and best wishes to your maintenance. Thanks. I will also achieve success and be "normal" someday. I'm just needing to continue learning how to deal with all of the changes that have occurred. It's tough to go from total binge eating to total diet eating for so long - back and forth (as janice described it so well in another post) and find that happy medium. Jenn > Maintenance has been and still is easy for me as I learned to let go > of the emotional issues and learned the "food is fuel" lesson. I used to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > learning from the start while losing weight), and I hope you will. Find > other solutions for when you are angry, sad, frustrated, etc. I agree with everything you said, Sue, but I think the issue is how to help Jenn with the stuff that the rest of us learned along the way. She's just landed in the world of being at goal with none of the emotional journey of learning a new relationship with food that you and I had. Jenn, one day with an extra 1300 calories doesn't matter. Not even a tiny bit. What matters is that you don't do that EVERY day. It doesn't matter if you gain an extra five pounds during a time when exercising doesn't fit into your life, what matters is that you get back at it when you can. There's a bit of see-sawing that goes on as you get better and better at jumping back on the wagon. I honestly believe it doesn't matter if you fall off the wagon, what matters is how easily you jump back on. And like most things, that takes practice. And the "food is fuel" lesson is so very important and it takes a bit of tinkering to get it right: you need to feed your own body the way your body needs. Delicious foods at the right intervals in the right macronutrient ratios FOR YOU so you don't feel hungry and you don't crave nutrients and you have enough fuel to power your body but not too much so you're storing fat and not too little so you're hungry and lethargic. It takes trial and error, i.e., PRACTICE! I've been losing weight since May of 2002. Along the way I've learned many, many lessons. I can't say I don't eat badly from time to time - my bugaboo is eating for boredom. I was in a conference Monday and Tuesday and munched on things to stimulate myself when forced to listen to a tax attorney design pension plans for a few hours. (Maybe I should have been pricking myself with a needle under the table instead of eating.) I managed a few tricks, though, to help keep the eating under control. I brought my own food, for one thing, and drank a lot of water and tea and tended to eat fruit. (Oranges are good because they are time consuming and quiet.) There was still a brownie in there that I'm not proud of, and my calorie load for those two days is higher than I would like, but they weren't setbacks, that was just a day in the life of me. Wendy > It takes trial and error, i.e., PRACTICE! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Wendy And I will have those days. I brought a bunch of water and veggies with me to this workshop because I knew I'd want to munch all day. I shared with my table :) They served cookies in the afternoon and I wasn't interested until things got reallllllllly tedious. Sugar isn't in my WOE so I went to the coffee shop on my break and got myself a cup with sugar free syrup in it and was happy. SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge "Jennifer Austin" wrote in message > Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I > can maintain my status as a fallible human. <snip of battle> > The war is just beginning. The battles are not easy. I am not as strong as > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > share the difficulties. It's good to hear that you fought your way back out of it Jenn. Maybe there's some benefit to the experience. It's early on into your maintenance, at least you only used your allowed foods and you did come back out quickly. Perhaps it's a reality check that it's not all fun and games but you do have the strength and the tools to persevere. I'm like Chris, can only eat when I'm happy, so I accept your description of your difficulties at face value. I believe what you post and am interested in what you have to say. I think the group is rich in different personalities with different issues using different methods to all accomplish the same GOAL. We all benefit by being here. And I'm putting my mini candy orgy and chocolate hangover in much better perspective today. (Note to self: Do NOT combine a 30 minute nap, a cup of coffee and chocolate after 6 PM) SignatureWalking on . . . Laurie in Maine 207/110 60 inches of attitude! Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 Hang in there. There are a lot of positives in what you wrote. Record time for your run for one and also getting back on track after this setback. Stopping yourself -- maybe not as quickly as you would have liked but we all know how hard it can be to stop when things start to go awry. I look forward to hearing all about your your 5k :-) > Since I post my accomplishments I need to also report when I fail so that I > can maintain my status as a fallible human. Due to a number of emotional [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I want to be. The damage was more mental than physical. Just wanted to > share the difficulties. Signaturejmk in NC > Hang in there. There are a lot of positives in what you wrote. Record > time for your run for one and also getting back on track after this > setback. Stopping yourself -- maybe not as quickly as you would have > liked but we all know how hard it can be to stop when things start to go > awry. I look forward to hearing all about your your 5k :-) Thanks to you and all of you who care to read and understand. It's funny because it was one lapse and I did regain control, yet some ignorant folks seem to think I'm blaming emotional problems for some nonexistent total failure. I was totally able to get back on track the next day and I've been so ever since. Hey, I even had an extra snack yesterday because I was hungry and went 100 cal over my limit. I'm livin' large ;) Today I was kind of light on stuff because I was too busy to stop and eat at my normal times - the pedometer counted over 15,000 steps. I dealt with the issues that lead to my temporary loss of control. I had already conquered it before I even made the original post. I've even made a plan for the next time that I will try really hard to follow. I never once claimed that I wasn't going to succeed in maintenance because of this problem but instead I plan to succeed in spite of it. Too bad there are people, even here, that just get pleasure out of other's troubles. Anyway, I'm back up to the weight my Dr. wanted me at and my bf% has dropped another .5% this week so maybe the dumbell and extra strength training I've been doing is starting to work. I think I'm doing well for a wretch. I'm headed out of town tomorrow. Another state sponsored workshop from hell. I'm cooking up a storm tonight to bring good things with me since all they serve is cheese laden greasy stuff at these things. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge Very good, just do not go bananas and do not hurl verbal abuse at me just because I make a suggestion or two. I never called you names, yet you do it all the time. i >> Hang in there. There are a lot of positives in what you wrote. Record >> time for your run for one and also getting back on track after this [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I'm cooking up a storm tonight to bring good things with me since all they > serve is cheese laden greasy stuff at these things. > Very good, just do not go bananas and do not hurl verbal abuse at me > just because I make a suggestion or two. I never called you names, yet > you do it all the time. > > i Very good? Gee, so glad you approve. I can now live a full and complete existence. You don't make suggestions. You deem from on high the ultimate answer to all of life's questions in black and white with no in between. You don't read what people write and then spout off your "suggestions" that show a total knack for the obvious since it's stuff people have said they're already doing, but you don't bother to give them the courtesy of actually reading what was posted. You have every answer and no one else is right but you because what you do is *the way* and the rest of us are just not bright enough to have it figured out or we're in denial because we don't agree with you or because we might have deeper thoughts. You ask ridiculous questions and pump for information that's never any of your business and in spite of numerous attempts to explain things, you can't even begin to fathom that something could actually exist outside of your limited POV. You treat people like morons around here with your simplistic and again, obvious "suggestions" and spout trite little phrases with no meaning behind them. (i.e. "be vigilant" or "bad foods" *puke*) You post about how lazy you are and demonstrate regularly that you really know little about nutrition, diet, etc. yet you consider yourself to be some kind of authority and tell people what they should be doing without any regard to their own lives, etc. and yet you don't seem to be doing the same. It's mostly your lack of reading comprehension that annoys me personally, but apparently you have a way of pissing off a lot of people around here. And please let's not forget the bizzare and psychotic questions about forcibly starving someone (there are others I just don't remember them) and the intentional trolling posts. There, no name calling. Happy now? Have a little cheese with that whine and don't address me again, I won't be wasting the bandwidth on you. As I've said a few times: You are wasting your breath. He will never get it. He doesn't want to get it. He couldn't get it if he wanted to. Some people just don't understand. Regardless of how much you or anyone else tries to get them to understand, you wind up wasting your energy. He responds the only way his limited intellect can comprehend. -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > Very good, just do not go bananas and do not hurl verbal abuse at me > > just because I make a suggestion or two. I never called you names, yet [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > There, no name calling. Happy now? Have a little cheese with that whine > and don't address me again, I won't be wasting the bandwidth on you. > As I've said a few times: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you wind up wasting your energy. He responds the only way his limited > intellect can comprehend. I've noticed this group does have the tendency to demonize certain posters. A regular poster takes offence, others (either by shared response or by way of comfort) join the bandwagon, and before long there's a devil in our midst. Most targets tend to be male, so I think a large part of this is a disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. Excuse me, but I have a mind of my own. He has annoyed me with his responses to my posts as well. I didn't type that to jump on the bandwagon. Bite me. -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > As I've said a few times: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the > more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. > Excuse me, but I have a mind of my own. He has annoyed me with his > responses to my posts as well. Which ones PG? i > I didn't type that to jump on the > bandwagon. Bite me. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the >> more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. > Excuse me, but I have a mind of my own. He has annoyed me with his > responses to my posts as well. I didn't type that to jump on the bandwagon. Therefore you fall into the "shared response" category I mentioned. >>I've noticed this group does have the tendency to demonize certain >>posters. A regular poster takes offence, others (either by shared >>response or by way of comfort) join the bandwagon, and before long >>there's a devil in our midst. > > As I've said a few times: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the > more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. There are plenty of blunt females in this group! Many people have gone head to head on issues and generally can agree to disagree or at least try to see the other's POV which may be more of a female trait than a male one. It's a good thing to have differing POV's and to discuss them. Some people just tend to feel that they know the only true way and are above the rest of us who have "problems." They can't or won't actually read what people say and then gloat about how pleased they are that they were right (when they weren't) and can't accept that they were wrong, rude, insensitive, or just plain ignorant and then whine like a victim when called to the carpet. > There are plenty of blunt females in this group! Many people have gone head > to head on issues and generally can agree to disagree or at least try to see [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > weren't) and can't accept that they were wrong, rude, insensitive, or just > plain ignorant and then whine like a victim when called to the carpet. I think it's just the common case of a male trying to fix things when the woman just wants someone to listen. > > There are plenty of blunt females in this group! Many people have gone head > > to head on issues and generally can agree to disagree or at least try to see [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I think it's just the common case of a male trying to fix things when the > woman just wants someone to listen. No, more accurately, it's someone (regardless of sex, doesn't matter) saying "they're always right". Martha >> As I've said a few times: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the > more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. It is funny that somehow, Jennifer Austin thinks that she will be better off if she calls me a bunch of names instead of actually considering what I wrote. Accidentally, I think, such behavior is based on denial and is associated with a worse prognosis than rational consideration of factors that affect regaining of weight. Or... For example, Perple Gyrl mentioned my "limited intellect". Well, everyone's intellect is limited. Hers is limited also. Just how limited it is compared to mine is an open question. Yes, there is a tendency of some posters to gang up together and attack someone. It makes them feel better to be a member of a pack. More comforting. i >> As I've said a few times: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the > more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. I dunno. Some of us gals can be pretty blunt. I know that I have felt jumped upon (I did go back and better explain myself in that case) and that JayJay has been jumped on too... Signaturejmk in NC >> Most targets tend to be male, so I think a large part of this is a >> disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the >> more empathic style favoured by the majority female contributors. > I dunno. Some of us gals can be pretty blunt. I know that I have felt > jumped upon (I did go back and better explain myself in that case) and > that JayJay has been jumped on too... I disagree that it's a male/female thing. It might be between certain people, but in general I find myself jumping on Patty Heil all the time because I just can't stand seeing her stuff sit out there being uncorrected. (I try not to call her names, just to correct her outdated pronouncements.) I'm certainly blunt and the absolute WORST person to complain to about how hard it is to stop eating. I just want to scream "shut up and do it!" I assume that the people doing that complaining are getting their need for comfort met by someone else. :-) I do hope, though, that the example of people who DID just shut up and do it will be met with the awareness that the OP can ALSO figure out how to handle these issues. -- Wendy >>> Most targets tend to be male, so I think a large part of this is a >>> disconnect between a more blunt male style of communication and the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > there being uncorrected. (I try not to call her names, just to > correct her outdated pronouncements.) The funny thing is, I made some suggestions to Jennifer Austin and I never tried to offend her or call her names. Whereas she at some point just started piling up verbal abuse at me, calling an ignorant a.shole etc. A fairly outrageous emotional reaction. Okay, maybe I made suggestions that were incorrect if evaluated based on best available scientific evidence. In such a case a rational reaction would be to dismiss them or to argue with them. But no, that's not what happened, instead of evaluating the message Jennifer decided to attack the messenger with really cheap verbal abuse. If you ask me that is behaviour that has, at its roots, denial and not a desire to find out what is the right thing to do diet wise. If I say that during her 155 lbs weight loss, she has not learned, through practice, how to eat right, that is just simply true. If I point out that she should not rest on her well deserved laurels and remember that the failure rates are ery hig, it is again true. Instead of either acknowledging it or disagreeing, she decided to attack me and be in denial about these simple facts. And denial and successful dieting do not mix well together. > I'm certainly blunt and the absolute WORST person to complain to about how > hard it is to stop eating. I just want to scream "shut up and do it!" I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it will be met with the awareness that the OP can ALSO figure out how to > handle these issues. We all have problems, issues, emotional triggers, food cravings, all kinds of things. What is important is to seek truth and act based on rationality and not on the ostrich syndrome. I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to your attitude towards yourselves. I hope that I have a decent chance also, maybe 55-60%. i 223/176/180 > I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep > their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to > your attitude towards yourselves. I hope that I have a decent chance > also, maybe 55-60%. When I said that you two have the highest chances, I meant amongst people who are currently dieting. Obviously some of the members here who have maintained their weight loss for a while were not in the comparison group, so to speak. i 223/176/180 > I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep > their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to > your attitude towards yourselves. I hope that I have a decent chance > also, maybe 55-60%. Thanks for the compliment. (Yes, I got the provision that you aren't discussing the people already at goal.) It's nice to have people believe in you, even if it shouldn't matter. The problem is - and perhaps the reason Jenn jumped on you - is that it's not always appropriate to bring up how slim a person's chances are - sitting around naysaying isn't helpful. We live in awareness of the problems, and Jenn was quite clearly airing potential problems. We know they exist. More helpful (and more worth reading) are stories like, "yeah, I know, this is how I dealt with that." Wendy >> I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep >> their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > discussing the people already at goal.) It's nice to have people believe > in you, even if it shouldn't matter. It should not matter. > The problem is - and perhaps the reason Jenn jumped on you - is that it's > not always appropriate to bring up how slim a person's chances are - > sitting around naysaying isn't helpful. We live in awareness of the > problems, and Jenn was quite clearly airing potential problems. We know > they exist. Well, unless Jennifer realizes that she is facing an uphill battle, she will not succeed. And I was trying to help her realize that, giving praise where appropriate. > More helpful (and more worth reading) are stories like, > "yeah, I know, this is how I dealt with that." Jennifer says that she is so special that mentioning what worked for me is not helpful to her. For example, daily weightings are helpful to me. The numbers that I post in my signature are updated daily. They just do not change much. That suggestion was made and discarded with much sound and fury. etc etc. Believe it or not, I would be upset if Jennifer regained her weight, despite all her verbal abuse and hysterics towards me. She has come a long way and it would be unfortunate to see it go to waste. She could be one of the lucky few. If, as a byproduct of her reaction to me, her resolve hardens so as to prove me wrong, I will be happy. i 223/176/180 > > I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep > > their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Wendy Didn't see that whole post because of the kf (which I update daily to accomodate name changes), so I'm not sure why *I'm* being discussed. But, just to clear things up, I am very aware of my problems and the difficulties they bring to the table. I've never once said that they are going to stop me from keeping off my weight. I know that I need to get over them and move on with life but gee, I don't have a magic 24 hour cure like some people (wasn't referring to Wendy). It's a process and I'm processing :) Believe it or not, I'm not an idiot. I don't need to be treated like one by someone who thinks they know everything about me by some newsgroup posts (still not referring to Wendy). Funny how the people in my real life who actually *do* know me understand the MAJOR life changes I've undergone in order to be successful this time and completely believe in my long-term success. Genuine thanks to you Wendy for the helpful support. SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > Believe it or not, I'm not an idiot. I don't need to be treated like one by > someone who thinks they know everything about me by some newsgroup posts > (still not referring to Wendy). Funny how the people in my real life who > actually *do* know me understand the MAJOR life changes I've undergone in > order to be successful this time and completely believe in my long-term > success. Genuine thanks to you Wendy for the helpful support. You're welcome. I'm glad to see you came back from your road trip in such a good frame of mind. Wendy > > Believe it or not, I'm not an idiot. I don't need to be treated like one by > > someone who thinks they know everything about me by some newsgroup posts [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wendy Amazing what a few days of learning you really can trust your body to tell you what's right can do for the mind and the soul. Now I need to internalize it :) SignatureJenn 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge > > > I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep > > > their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > 300/144 (HMR) in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge I didn't see the idiot's post either. It was inappropriate of him to comment on anyone's rate of success. The guy knows zilch of anything anyone talks about. He doesn't even know what rhubarb is, yet feels it's necessary to comment on it. Doesn't that say it all? Martha Dried fruit has lots of sugar! > I didn't see the idiot's post either. It was inappropriate of him to comment > on anyone's rate of success. The guy knows zilch of anything anyone talks [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Martha > Dried fruit has lots of sugar! Careful there, pointing out actual real life examples & fact only demonstrates your obvious emotional problems. ;) Jenn LOL.... -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > I didn't see the idiot's post either. It was inappropriate of him to > comment [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jenn > > I didn't see the idiot's post either. It was inappropriate of him to > comment [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jenn ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Martha >> I didn't see the idiot's post either. It was inappropriate of him to > comment [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Careful there, pointing out actual real life examples & fact only > demonstrates your obvious emotional problems. ;) Actually, Martha is lying as usual, I specifically pointed out that I have no idea what is rhubarb and that I woud NOT comment on it. From my original post: ``Cannot comment on the rest of the berries you mentioned, as I do not know them.'' i >I see you and maybe Crafting mom as two people most likely to keep >their weight success for a long time (10 years or so), solely due to >your attitude towards yourselves. I hope that I have a decent chance >also, maybe 55-60%. I also believe I won't gain my weight back, and that when I do gain a small amount (like I did recently), I'll be on top of it ready to nip it in the bud (like I am doing now). Seeing myself today, as compared to 2 years ago, is enough inspiration. I'm of the belief that quick fix diets are set up for failure, but a "way of life" change that is a bit flexible, can help one stay on track. I never want to weigh that much again. And it's all up to me and what I choose to eat. And it's never going to come *close* to the way I *used* to eat, that's for darn sure. cm SignatureDrop everything and do it my way :) > I never want to weigh that much again. And it's all up to me and what I > choose to eat. And it's never going to come *close* to the way I > *used* to eat, that's for darn sure. > > cm No! MY way! neener neener ;-) I know what you mean! For instance, now when I have my cup of pasta with another cup of zucchini, a little sauce, a small link of Italian sausage and a lovely salad w/ ff dressing and some green beans, I am dumbfounded to remember that I used to have 2 big bowls of pasta, 2 sausages and a couple slices of bread with butter. I also would have had the salad but with lots of blue cheese dressing. I truly would be sick if I tried that now. Who was that other person? (can you tell we're having rigatoni tonight?) SignatureWalking on . . . Laurie in Maine 207/110 60 inches of attitude! Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 >>> As I've said a few times: >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >jumped upon (I did go back and better explain myself in that case) and >that JayJay has been jumped on too... Yes, many of us woman in here can be quite blunt and to the point. Stating the obvious, that indeed, sometimes has to be stated. And many times we get jumped on. And, likewise we jump on others when there is a need to. Patricia gets jumped on alot - (not enough so, sometimes). :) Ya know - bluntness and stating the obvious. Maybe its because I work in IT, and many times you HAVE to ask the obvious questions. User: "My computer won't work" IT guy: "Is the power cable plugged into the wall" People get upset when you ask such a basic question. But you have to realize that 90% of the time, that basic stuff is the resolution to the problem. Cover the basics first before trying to resolve a more complex problem. Case in point - happened to me a few years ago. I'm trying to setup a new computer, and every time I tried to get it on the network, it failed. I spent a day fighting with it before calling a "guru" in our corporate headquarters. Feeling silly and useless having to turn to him for help on such a problem. His first question was "is the network cable plugged in." My response was "well, duh..." but then I double checked - yes, the cable was plugged in. He and I also spent a good deal of time on the phone trying to troubleshoot the problem. I finally gave up and went home for the day. The next day I come in to begin working and the big lightbulb went off. DUH... Yeah, the cable was plugged into the back of the PC, and into the wall, but in my server room, I'd moved that cable to a dead port trying to test something a few days before, and I never moved it back to the live port. 2 second fix - that took me 3 days to resolve because I didn't look at the OBVIOUS first. Yes, my bluntness and stating the obvious will tick off some people - but it has also helped some people, and I've gotten posts and emails of thank you for just the "simple" things. > >>> As I've said a few times: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > User: "My computer won't work" > IT guy: "Is the power cable plugged into the wall" The better way, "Have you made sure the power is on and given it a 'reboot"? Men who presume women are ignorant are projcting their own shortcomings. SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman . >> User: "My computer won't work" >> IT guy: "Is the power cable plugged into the wall" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Men who presume women are ignorant are projcting their own shortcomings. THis has nothing to do with "men".... > As I've said a few times: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Email me at: > perpleglow(AT)comcast.net Maybe you should practice what you preach then and give up the fight yourself ;) I'll stop victimizing him and pointing out specific examples of what he's doing that I have a problem with since no matter what he does it's apparently still my problem. I plan to not waste anymore bandwidth on him. Killfiles are made for such a purpose. I'm going out of town to a very boring workshop for a federal grant that we're in. Luckily there will be wi fi in the room and I'll be able to get lots of stuff done for work. I told one of my classes that I would be expecting them to email me their assignments tomorrow at the end of class :) They hate when I can get high speed internet on the road! The place I'm staying has a fabulous fitness center (with a tiny rock wall) and so I'm checking in early this afternoon to take advantage before the meetings start at 6PM. SignatureJenn 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 Living well is the best revenge <----- [gotta practice what I preach too] Gosh, this took me a bit to research, but I was glad to do it! 1) He doesn't follow the WOL you are doing. Always interjects what you should do, not taking into consideration that you are doing something that works. 2) He doesn't understand the mentality of a person with an eating/binging disorder, making light of it or not taking it seriously. 3) On 10-4, I posted that I was feeling better and tried to go back to Curves. However, I was getting over being very sick and couldn't stop coughing the whole time. He responded: "That's normal, do not let it deter you from exercising. Do anything you can to get your heart rate up -- walking, swimming whatever." "It is normal to be out of breath if you weigh so much and have not been exercising. Just the laws of physics. Try still exercising to the point when you are close to being out of breath, but not actually out of breath. That would help your aerobic capacity." He did not catch that I wrote that I tried to and couldn't due to my breathing problems and asthma. He just assumed it was because of my weight problem that I was out of breath. This is an example of him not reading posts all the way through. 4) On 10-13, he posts about how he is hungry on maintanance and what should he do to help. Yet in your recent posts, he tries to say that he is a maintanance expert and Jenn is setting herself up for failure. 5) He writes a post on 10-9 congradulating Jennifer for her immense success at losing weight. However, he condems her to fail in his more recent posts. 6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socieconomic status people. Which has several plausible explanations, with causality going both ways. When people associate obesity with lower socieoconomic status via stereotyping, they do it not entirely without basis." I know that this isn't the case!!!! I have a college degree and make 6 figures a year. I work with people that are obese or overweight and make alot of money. I am sure that there are alot of economically successful people in this NG that have a weight problem. 7) He writes this on 8-9-03: "Yep, I know exactly what you mean CM. Dieting and maintaining weight is EASY if you do not eat certain foods.". Well, DUH!!!! There are so many other examples... Anyone else want to bring up a few???? -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > As I've said a few times: > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > 300/145 in maintenance since 10/28/03 > Living well is the best revenge <----- [gotta practice what I preach too] > Gosh, this took me a bit to research, but I was glad to do it! > > 1) He doesn't follow the WOL you are doing. Always interjects what you > should do, not taking into consideration that you are doing something that > works. Pretty non-specific. > 2) He doesn't understand the mentality of a person with an eating/binging > disorder, making light of it or not taking it seriously. same thing. > 3) On 10-4, I posted that I was feeling better and tried to go back to > Curves. However, I was getting over being very sick and couldn't stop > coughing the whole time. He responded: "That's normal, do not let it deter > you from exercising. Do anything you can to get your heart rate up -- > walking, swimming whatever." that was said in response to your statement that you get out of breath while exercising. At your huge weight, that was a normal thing to do and I suggested that you take up easy exercises and not give up exercising. > "It is normal to be out of breath if you weigh > so much and have not been exercising. Just the laws of physics. Try still > exercising to the point when you are close to being out of breath, but not > actually out of breath. That would help your aerobic capacity." He did not > catch that I wrote that I tried to and couldn't due to my breathing problems > and asthma. You are lying. You said that you could not do Curves exercises, which are generally more demanding than slow walking or swimming. And I suggested that you do easier exercises. > He just assumed it was because of my weight problem that I was > out of breath. This is an example of him not reading posts all the way > through. > 4) On 10-13, he posts about how he is hungry on maintanance and what should > he do to help. Yet in your recent posts, he tries to say that he is a > maintanance expert and Jenn is setting herself up for failure. you are lying again. I never said that I was a maintenance expert. Why do you need to resort to lying to prove your point? > 5) He writes a post on 10-9 congradulating Jennifer for her immense success > at losing weight. she deserved that praise. > However, he condems her to fail in his more recent posts. you are lying again. I said that there was a good possibility of her regaining, which is true. It is not a condemnation. > 6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: > "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I work with people that are obese or overweight and > make alot of money. so what? your individual examples cannot disprove a well known statistical fact. > I am sure that there are alot of economically > successful people in this NG that have a weight problem. and that does not prove me wrong. > 7) He writes this on 8-9-03: "Yep, I know exactly what you mean CM. > Dieting and maintaining weight is EASY if you do not eat certain foods.". > Well, DUH!!!! Well, duh. > There are so many other examples... Anyone else want to bring up a few???? try to stop lying for a change... it will help you PG... i >> > As I've said a few times: >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > start >> at 6PM. Excuse me dumb a.s... and this will be my last response to one of your posts. But I was sick for 2 weeks last month with asthmatic bronchitis and sinusitis and that was why I was out of breath. I have been working out for 3 months with no problems and joined a 2nd gym. Yes, I was overweight, but not so overweight that I can't handle exercise. I am taking my own advice and not wasting my time or energy responding to you. -- Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net > > Gosh, this took me a bit to research, but I was glad to do it! > > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > start > >> at 6PM. Alright, I will still be following up to your posts that are of interest to me, even if you choose to ignore me. i > Excuse me dumb a.s... and this will be my last response to one of your > posts. But I was sick for 2 weeks last month with asthmatic bronchitis and [quoted text clipped - 147 lines] >> > start >> >> at 6PM. >>6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >>"It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > so what? your individual examples cannot disprove a well known > statistical fact. Ig, if it were a well known fact then I would agree with you, however, I don't think that it is a fact at all. "One cannot automatically assume that the benefits of increased SES found among white adults will transfer to other gender–age– ethnic groups. Our findings suggest that efforts to reduce overweight disparities between ethnic groups must look beyond income and education and focus on other factors, such as environmental, contextual, biological, and sociocultural factors." - The Relationship of Ethnicity, Socioeconomic Factors, and Overweight in U.S. Adolescents, Penny Gordon-Larsen, Linda S. Adair, and Barry M. Popkin >>I am sure that there are alot of economically >>successful people in this NG that have a weight problem. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >> >>>at 6PM. Signaturejmk in NC Jmk, see my another post with a quote from NIH study that pretty much summarizes the situation. i >>>6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >>>"It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] >>> >>>>at 6PM. > 6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: > "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > make alot of money. I am sure that there are alot of economically > successful people in this NG that have a weight problem. I was at a conference this week. I was asked to present something at it but most of the people at the conference are in a different economic stratosphere than the one in which I reside. Also, most of the men at the conference were obese. There were very few women at the conference and none of them were obese although a few were perhaps a little overweight. I just had an impression of a lot of well-to-do men who were pretty overweight. In other words, I don't think that it's at all fair to imply that lower income individuals weigh more than higher income individuals :-) Signaturejmk in NC >> 6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >> "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >fair to imply that lower income individuals weigh more than higher >income individuals :-) That's pretty much my impression too. In my company -- because it's in the high-tech business and we're in a high-priced area -- virtually everyone is in an upper-middle-class socioeconomic bracket. And overweight, particularly among those of use who are 40 and older, is more the rule than the exception. Chris >> 6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >> "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > fair to imply that lower income individuals weigh more than higher > income individuals :-) ``A review of 144 published studies of the relationship between socioeconomic status (SES) and obesity reveals a strong inverse relationship among women in developed societies. The relationship is inconsistent for men and children in developed societies. '' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed &list_uids=2648443&dopt=Abstract i Ig, sorry but I don't see how this makes your original point: "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic status people." You make a really broad generalization here. "Higher SES subjects were more likely to be obese in China and Russia, but in the US low-SES groups were at a higher risk. Obesity was more prevalent in urban areas in China but in rural areas in Russia." -http://ije.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/5/1129 In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true for the population of China is different than what is true for the population in the US. >>>6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >>>"It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > i Signaturejmk in NC > Ig, sorry but I don't see how this makes your original point: "It is > generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > prevalent in urban areas in China but in rural areas in Russia." > -http://ije.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/5/1129 Correct. So in developed societies obesity is more prevalent against SES. I agree that this generalization would be false in China and Russia. > In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is > true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true > for the population of China is different than what is true for the > population in the US. Are you in China or in the NC triangle? i >>>>6) On 10-17, he wrote in response to Americans are losing their jobs....: >>>>"It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> i >>Ig, sorry but I don't see how this makes your original point: "It is >>generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > SES. I agree that this generalization would be false in China and > Russia. That may be the case depending on your gender, ethnicity and level of education. >>In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is >>true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true >>for the population of China is different than what is true for the >>population in the US. > > Are you in China or in the NC triangle? Since I am not obese, how is this relavent? > i > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>> >>>i Signaturejmk in NC >>>Ig, sorry but I don't see how this makes your original point: "It is >>>generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Since I am not obese, how is this relavent? It is relevant because when you speak or "generalizations", you imply ones that apply to your country (the US) and not some remote area. i >> i >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>>> >>>>i >>>>In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is >>>>true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It is relevant because when you speak or "generalizations", you imply > ones that apply to your country (the US) and not some remote area. That's not what my dictionary says. If you wanted the generalization that you made to apply to only a particular region, that should have been included in your statement. You said, "It is generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic status people." If you wanted it to apply only to the US or another group you should have said so. > i > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>>>> >>>>>i Signaturejmk in NC >>>>>In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is >>>>>true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > you wanted it to apply only to the US or another group you should have > said so. I agree with that. i 223/176/180 >> Ig, sorry but I don't see how this makes your original point: "It is >> generally known that obesity is more prevalent amongst low socioeconomic [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > SES. I agree that this generalization would be false in China and > Russia. I apologize, something distracted me as I was writing that post. I meant to say that in developed societies, obesity is more prevalent amongst low SES (it is for women, less so for men). i >> In other words, generalizations on this point just don't work. What is >> true for women in the US is not necessarily true for men. What is true [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >>> >>> i > Maybe you should practice what you preach then and give up the fight > yourself ;) I'll stop victimizing him and pointing out specific examples of > what he's doing that I have a problem with since no matter what he does it's > apparently still my problem. I plan to not waste anymore bandwidth on him. > Killfiles are made for such a purpose. Usually, when people say they killfiled somebody, they are lying. i 223/176/180 >> Very good, just do not go bananas and do not hurl verbal abuse at me >> just because I make a suggestion or two. I never called you names, yet [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > There, no name calling. Happy now? Have a little cheese with that whine > and don't address me again, I won't be wasting the bandwidth on you. You sound very unhappy Jennifer, I guess somehow I stirred up some bad emotions in you. Your screams while running etc, are not related to me but clearly you have a lot of tension pent up in you, and I am the focus of their release in this newsgroup. You have the right to call me names, ridicule me and so on. But it won't make two plus two equal five no matter how creatively you try to put me down. Two plus two is still four, just as well as eating too much leads to weight regain regardless of the reasons for overeating. You also try to shift the discussion from nutrition and regaining issues towards insinuating how ignorant and poorly educated I am. Note that I have not been doing same to you, I was just pointing out some basics that are true regardless of your complex psychological issues. And you are getting personal all the time. I wish you luck and hope that in a year, you will be still doing well on your maintenance plan. i 223/176/180 >Thanks to you and all of you who care to read and understand. It's funny >because it was one lapse and I did regain control, yet some ignorant folks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >kind of light on stuff because I was too busy to stop and eat at my normal >times - the pedometer counted over 15,000 steps. To me the best news is that you were totally able to get back on track the next day. For me the first "lapse" can be a very dangerous time as I know to my cost. You're doing great, and don't forget you're in new territory here which means there's a lot for you to learn both about your WOE and about yourself as you go along. IMO, the best thing you can do is put each experience to positive use for the future. I do so want you to succeed in this, so do keep posting! janice > To me the best news is that you were totally able to get back on track > the next day. For me the first "lapse" can be a very dangerous time [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I do so want you to succeed in this, so do keep posting! > janice Thanks janice. I tell my students all the time that it's ok to fail and to make mistakes because we can't do everything right all of the time. If I went through life saying I must "never" do something then that's setting the bar pretty high. [Of course for the ignorant let me state that I mean never do something I might actually do not something I would never do anyway (like murder or whatever). Yep, I must never commit murder and I have to tell myself that all the time...oops I digress.] Mistakes and miserable failures always have a positive in that they are learning experiences. Have a good day! Jenn Recovering after a lapse is very hard, and I'm still trying to do it, a week and a half later. I've had a few not so bad days, but no real good days yet. Getting back into my exercise routine helped a lot, I was able to do my Sat am class and my Sun pm dancing. Of couse something came up last night and I didn't make my class, but I'm going to go to Yoga tonight instead. It's weird, I had gotten down to 196.5, but now I'm back up to 199, and I feel like a failure. Even though 3 weeks ago I wasn't at 199. I feel as fat as I did when I was 214. It got so easy to forget that I am wearing a whole new size of clothes, and I have lost 15 pounds in the last 2-3 months. I think I need to get some pictures together to see some before and after shots. Mieko 232/199/182 (mini-goal) >>Thanks to you and all of you who care to read and understand. It's funny >>because it was one lapse and I did regain control, yet some ignorant folks [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I do so want you to succeed in this, so do keep posting! >janice > Recovering after a lapse is very hard, and I'm still trying to do > it, a week and a half later. I've had a few not so bad days, but no [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that I am wearing a whole new size of clothes, and I have lost 15 > pounds in the last 2-3 months. Well, your failure was a small failure. No big deal. Work the 3 lbs off in a week and you will feel good again. Regarding feeling like 214 lbs, this might be just a consequence of overeating. i 223/196/180 > I think I need to get some pictures together to see some before and after > shots. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>I do so want you to succeed in this, so do keep posting! >>janice >It's weird, I had gotten down to 196.5, but now I'm back up to 199, and I feel >like a failure. Even though 3 weeks ago I wasn't at 199. I feel as fat as I >did when I was 214. It got so easy to forget that I am wearing a whole new >size of clothes, and I have lost 15 pounds in the last 2-3 months. This is something that I can never understand - why when I regain, the same weights at which I felt ecstatic on the way down because they represented such an achievement and loss of inches feel massive on the way "up". I guess it's partly because your body has got used to how it feels to be at a lower weight. Doesn't seem to make sense though. janice |
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