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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2005Bloodwork today!
Today I get to have my bloodwork done. First time since out of the hospital, Jan 1, 2005. I've fasted since 6pm yesterday. I'm hoping for a super good cholesterol result for the first time ever and low-low-low triglycerides and low numbers for whatever they test the pancreas for. Dieting daily usually on a handful of sodium-free almonds, an orange, a Fuji apple, trader joe's mini shredded wheat cereal with fat-free skim milk, Niacin (200mg), two red, yellow or green peppers a day, soy burger on whole wheat bread with fat-free miracle whip and 2 16-oz mugs of decaf green tea and about three quarts of spring water (with lemon juice added to improve blandness). There's virtually no fat or cholesterol in my diet. I haven't eaten red meat or cheese or refined sugars. Zero alcohol. Probably missing some nutrients and am at about 1200 calories a day average. I've only missed two days at the gym since I began. And now I'm sitting here kinda/sorta starving, waiting for the doc's office to open in about two hours. I've never been so anxious about my cholesterol, etc., since I was granted a second chance. Then I have to wait until I see the doc on Thursday for the results. Maybe two months aren't enough to show dramatic results, but if the results aren't absolutely remarkably great, I'm probably going to have a fit. Probably do a pint of Ben and Jerry's coffee ice cream. If the results ARE great I'll probably still do Ben and Jerry's coffee ice cream, only let it melt and shower in it! All the best, Andy 6'2" 249/219/190 > If the > results ARE great I'll probably still do Ben and Jerry's coffee ice > cream, only let it melt and shower in it! Sounds like it's time to invite that trainer of yours over :) Best of luck with the bloodwork. -- Matthew 185/177/160 >> If the >> results ARE great I'll probably still do Ben and Jerry's coffee ice >> cream, only let it melt and shower in it! >> > Sounds like it's time to invite that trainer of yours over :) What? And end the fantasy? Great idea! ;) > Best of luck with the bloodwork. Thanks, Andy > Today I get to have my bloodwork done. First time since out of the > hospital, Jan 1, 2005. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and low-low-low triglycerides and low numbers for whatever they test the > pancreas for. I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm doing well with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS 110 and ALT of 60 (supposedly due to fat deposits.) The suggestion was that, since I'm lc-ing I should go with less fatty meats, e.g. cut the sausage and go for chicken breast and so forth. Hopefully the ALT will come down when I lose more weight. Mike > I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm > doing well with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS > 110 and ALT of 60 (supposedly due to fat deposits.) Mike, Please explain Fasting BS and ALT? Also the LDL is higher than your HDL. Isn't that a BAD result? Andy >> I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm >> doing well with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Also the LDL is higher than your HDL. Isn't that a BAD result? LDL is almost always higher than HDL...  Signature223/173.0/180 Fasting Blood Sugar and Alanine AminoTransferase fasting blood sugar is for whether you are Type 2 diabetes and ALT is for liver damage. LDL is almost always higher than HDL k >>I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm >>doing well with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Andy > Fasting Blood Sugar and Alanine AminoTransferase > > fasting blood sugar is for whether you are Type 2 diabetes and ALT is for > liver damage. The "liver damage" is from fat deposits in my liver, from being too fat, which is why I included the ALT. Another little something for us big folk to watch. Or from heavy drinking. A little something for us not so big folk to watch as well. k > The "liver damage" is from fat deposits in my liver, from being too fat, > which is why I included the ALT. Another little something for us big folk to > watch. > Or from heavy drinking. hic. Hic. Hic. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Just kidding. I don't drink ;-) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . much . . . . . . . . . . . . . . hic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Seriously, though, only two or three drinks a year. Being fat is hard on a lot of the organs, not just the heart. Its a good idea to do kidney and liver tests at least once a year. That's my opinion, anyway. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mike >Fasting Blood Sugar and Alanine AminoTransferase > >fasting blood sugar is for whether you are Type 2 diabetes and ALT is >for liver damage. Fasting blood sugar is the amount of sugar in your blood (glucose) after... 8 hour of no food?? Is your liver trouble reversable? >>Fasting Blood Sugar and Alanine AminoTransferase >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Fasting blood sugar is the amount of sugar in your blood (glucose) > after... 8 hour of no food?? 10-14 hours, optimally. Susan Thanks Susan. Do you think there's benefit for people in general (not just diabetics) to test their fasting blood sugar on occasion?? >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Susan Renegade5@Earth.com (Renegade5) wrote in news:422349b7.11433690 @nntp.ktchnr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com: > Thanks Susan. Do you think there's benefit for people in general (not > just diabetics) to test their fasting blood sugar on occasion?? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>Susan Adding on, about home testing bloodwork products, does anybody have any experience or thoughts with this product that I'm debating on buying: http://www.lipidpanel.com/consumer_cardiochek.htm And no, this isn't spam, you folks know me better than that. Just looks interesting. Thanks, Andy Signature"Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!" - Ed Sullivan (1964) > Thanks Susan. Do you think there's benefit for people in general (not > just diabetics) to test their fasting blood sugar on occasion?? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > >Susan As a typeII diabetic, let me say a few things. First, if you are not diabetic and you wanted to check you blood glucose, borrow a friend's meter. There is no sense in buying one for use couple of times (unless you are obsessive about such things). If you do check it, and are interested in tracking is as far as health, you may want to know 1 and 2 hours post-prandial. The research shows that this is likely to be a better predictor of possible coronary damage than fasting (although fasting is good for diagnosis or disease). This goes for diabetics as well, the post prandial swings have been show to correlate with damage more than HbA1c, although this is considered the gold standard. In addition, this gives you information as to which foods effect your glucose levels the most (your personal glycemic index), can point out if you have a liver dump over night--possible exercise intervention--or drugs specific for liver control, and can (if you are paying attention) let you see how exercise effects levels as well. Just my $0.02. SignatureDr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick >> >> Fasting blood sugar is the amount of sugar in your blood (glucose) >> >> after... 8 hour of no food?? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >you see how exercise effects levels as well. >Just my $0.02. Thanks DD. I know 'postprandial' is after eating (typically a meal). Does it matter which (breakfast, lunch, or dinner?) Or should you take it after each? Any idea what the 'ideal' postprandial readings would be? > >> >> Fasting blood sugar is the amount of sugar in your blood (glucose) > >> >> after... 8 hour of no food?? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Any idea what the 'ideal' postprandial readings would be? If you are assessing your personal 'glycemic index" of your daily food intake, the 1 and 2 hours after each meal, until sufficient data has been collected. . In nondiabetic individuals, fasting plasma glucose concentrations (i.e., following an overnight 8- to 10-h fast) generally range from 70 to 110 mg/dl. Glucose concentrations begin to rise ~10 min after the start of a meal . The post prandial glucose response is determined by carbohydrate absorption, insulin and glucagon secretion, and their coordinated effects on glucose metabolism in the liver and peripheral tissues. The magnitude and time of the peak plasma glucose concentration depend on a variety of factors, including the timing, quantity, and composition of the meal. In nondiabetic individuals, plasma glucose concentrations peak ~60 min after the start of a meal, and they rarely exceed 140 mg/dl, and generally they return to preprandial concentrations within 2-3 h. SignatureDr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick > >> >> Fasting blood sugar is the amount of sugar in your blood (glucose) > >> >> after... 8 hour of no food?? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Any idea what the 'ideal' postprandial readings would be? For more info on the association of 1 hour and CVD, see: Ceriello, A. May, 2004. American Heart Journal, Impaired glucose tolerance and cardiovascular disease: The possible role of post-prandial hyperglycemia, 803-807 He gives a lot more citations into research (although I just saw something brand new (still in press) that did not find some key indicators; however, we must go with the body of evidence. SignatureDr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick Fasting Blood Sugar and Alanine AminoTransferase fasting blood sugar is for whether you are Type 2 diabetes and ALT is for liver damage. LDL is almost always higher than HDL k >>I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm >>doing well with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Andy > Please explain Fasting BS and ALT? What Karstens said, I think. I didn't know that ALT stood for... that big word she said. But Fasting BS is Fasting Blood Sugar, and ALT is a liver function test of some sort. For what its worth I also have tests done related to my kidneys, as I have diabetes and high blood pressure, also in part from being fat. -- Mike >> Please explain Fasting BS and ALT? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > done related to my kidneys, as I have diabetes and high blood > pressure, also in part from being fat. -- Mike Mike, When I turned 40 my current doc put me on BP meds. We went through them all and they all wierded me out mentally or physically, except the last one, Diovan, which has been super-effective. Doc's running a "complete work-up" (?) including all the hepatitus tests, etc. I drank heavily (Yo, ho, ho!), so I imagine the bloodwork will have something to say about ALT as well. The test probably covers the Fasting BS. My grandpop had diabetes, and if it skips a generation as I've heard, I'm a likely candidate. I'll know tomorrow. What a cheery thought. They took blood every day I was in the hospital but just concentrated on the pancreas numbers, as far as what they told me. I recall the bloodwork results come in pages with my numbers vs. low- norm-high numbers. Should be a fun read. Regards, Andy Signature"Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!" - Ed Sullivan (1964) >>> Please explain Fasting BS and ALT? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > all and they all wierded me out mentally or physically, except the last > one, Diovan, which has been super-effective. Hi Andy, I take Lisinopril for my BP. Either that or Lovistatin. One is for BP and the other for cholesterol. I took a meditation class, too, and I think that class helped me more than any of the meds. Yesterday my BP was 110/70. A year ago it was like something/140, so this is a big improvement. The twenty-five or thirty pounds I've lost since that time has helped me in a lot of ways. Good luck, may all of your tests fall within a normal range. The fact that you're working on your weight helps a lot. In fact, G-D bless, may everything come out great for you. Every five pounds helps. Every five pounds is an accomplishment. I figure that two pounds, three pounds, hell, that could be water or even a little slack in the scale. But losing five pounds and then going for another five, that's accomplishment. Its reasonable, its achievable, and it keeps me on track. I take it you're around my age, I'm 44 myself. This is payback time for the transgressions of youth. How I see it is that if I get my act together now, lose weight, eat better and exercise I'll be around for the long haul. Otherwise, I'll be outta here all together too soon. Mike > I take it you're around my age, I'm 44 myself. This is payback time > for the transgressions of youth. How I see it is that if I get my act > together now, lose weight, eat better and exercise I'll be around for > the long haul. Otherwise, I'll be outta here all together too soon. Mike, I'm 47. I feel the same way you do. I remember laying in that hospital bed telling my doctor "Groucho, I've changed my mind, I'd like to grow old after all!" Andy 6'2" 249/220/190 > I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm doing well > with my sugar. Tri 218, LDL/HDL/Tot 140/34/218. Fasting BS 110 and ALT of 60 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike I got my blood work results last night--I had never had my cholesterol checked before, so I'll have to go read about what it means, besides what the doc rambled on about. LDL 130. HDL 60. BS 70. And I forgot what he said about my thyroid, other than the work-up showed that everything is fine. He was moderately concerned about my LDL reading. He said the guidelines were just changed, and that 130 used to be within an okay range, but is now considered high. He felt that because I'm at a good weight, exercise, and am otherwise healthy, I should just be more careful about selecting lean meats and watching the types of fats I'm getting. Amy 168/115/... >> I got my bloods back today. No major improvements except that I'm doing >> well [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > LDL 130. HDL 60. BS 70. And I forgot what he said about my thyroid, > other than the work-up showed that everything is fine. Hi Amy, That's great. I wish I could hit those numbers. The 130 is a bit on the high side but the 60 is really good. With a BS of 70 you don't have diabetes. How old are you? I hit a growth spurt at the age of 24 and after that was over was when I started putting on weight. Before that time I was so skinny that I had to take my time stretching because the skin on my stomach was so tight. Wow, to feel that again. Mike > Hi Amy, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mike I'm 38. My family has a history of heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes, so I know I have to keep things in check. My weight gain started with my first pregnancy--I didn't lose all of baby weight, and it was easy to just keep on gaining when I was expecting my second. And then, a year after that, I had health issues that forced me to take Prednisone. Ugh. If you've ever taken it, you'll know what I mean. What really bites is that it takes as long to take the weight off as it does to put it on--regardless of what the miracle diet product marketers tell us. And it takes a lifetime of vigilance to keep it off--no more mindless recreational eating. And I never, ever, considered the health risks of being overweight *while* I was overweight. I lost because of vanity, not for health reasons. Now that I'm far more active than I ever was as a teen or young adult, the health issues mean a lot more to me than they ever did before. Amy Well, I got my bloodwork back and here are the numbers: Triglycerides: 212 h Cholesterol: 265 h HDL: 47 LDL: 176 h h = high ALT: 53 Fasting BS: 87 So my trigs and Cholesterol need to come down, but the numbers are still better than last year's, except the HDL went down and the LDL went up, which pissed me off since according to the nutrition labels, my sat. fat has been less than 10mg a day and cholesterol has been under 25mg daily. Some of it could be hereditary, my doc said. He wanted to start me on a cholesterol med, but I mentioned my exercise and diet programs and he agreed to give me four more months to see if the numbers improve. The ALT and BS numbers were good and my liver and pancreas are normal (surprised the XXXX out of me). The rest of the "Comprehensive Metabolic Panel" results were right down the middle, average. So, I can't complain and can't brag. All the best, Andy Signature"Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!" - Ed Sullivan (1964) > Well, I got my bloodwork back and here are the numbers: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > which pissed me off since according to the nutrition labels, my sat. fat > has been less than 10mg a day and cholesterol has been under 25mg daily. You are one of many people for whom reducing "saturated fat" does not "improve" your cholesterol. Most likely, reducing it did not do much to your heart attack risk either. Check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics that discusses the current state of cholesterol knowledge and why many suggestions like "eat less saturated fat", do not bring about great health improvements in many individuals. Now, eating less carbs will actually reduce your triglycerides, which are high for you and which are a consequence of eating too much carbs. Trigs/HDL ratio is also a "heart attack predictor", and it is not great for you. > Some of it could be hereditary, my doc said. He wanted to start me on a > cholesterol med, but I mentioned my exercise and diet programs and he > agreed to give me four more months to see if the numbers improve. Before you start on cholesterol med, it must be noted that in controlled studies, the total mortality of people taking those meds is higher than mortality of those not taking them. I can provide references. > The ALT and BS numbers were good and my liver and pancreas are normal > (surprised the XXXX out of me). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > So, I can't complain and can't brag. I do not think that you have any sort of a health emergency, your HDL is not bad, and your high LDL is not necessarily an indication that you are going to die of heart attack. Keep losing weight and exercising, do not smoke, those things will bring about real health improvements. Read this if you are interested: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/459755_print ``In multivariate analysis of the Framingham study data, HDL-c has been shown to be the best single lipid/lipoprotein predictor of cardiovascular and CHD mortality[1] while LDL-c predicts CHD only marginally better than total cholesterol.'' Drug companies spend billions to get doctors prescribe their meds to patients, it is an enormously profitable business for them. I own stock of Merck and I follow these issues somewhat. So, it helps to be skeptical and ask around before taking medications that, in the end, do not reduce mortality and make many people feel rather bad. A lot of side effects such as "feeling weak and lousy" are not bad enough to be officially noticed and included in the side effect list. Signature223/173.1/180 > Check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics that forgot the link, thincs.org. i >> Check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics that > > forgot the link, thincs.org. > > i i, Let me get back to you in four months, as my doc agreed to. All the best, Andy >>> Check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics that >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Let me get back to you in four months, as my doc agreed to. So, are you going to go on meds? Signature223/173.1/180 Ignoramus30876 <ignoramus30876@NOSPAM.30876.invalid> wrote in news:cvl8qm $sci$0@pita.alt.net: >>>> Check out the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics that >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > So, are you going to go on meds? Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't adjust in my favor. Andy Signature"Ladies and gentlemen, The Beatles!" - Ed Sullivan (1964) > Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four > months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't adjust in > my favor. Oh, I see. So, are you still going to stay away from fat, especially saturated fat and eat a lot of carbs? Plus weight loss and exercise? Is that the plan? In any case, I wish you good luck. Signature223/173.1/180 >> Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four >> months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't adjust in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > saturated fat and eat a lot of carbs? Plus weight loss and exercise? > Is that the plan? That seems to be his doctors suggestion. When I mention lc around the nurses and doctors where I go they just kind of grumble. When pinned down, they say it works and they see good results. However, they still push the lf diets. Maybe that will work for Andy. If it doesn't pan out, he can try low carb. By the way, Andy, good for you on your tests. That 53 on the ALT is actually kind of high and you should keep an eye on it. The high side of normal is like 20. Make sure you have it re-checked in a year. Mike > By the way, Andy, good for you on your tests. That 53 on the ALT is > actually kind of high and you should keep an eye on it. The high side > of normal is like 20. Make sure you have it re-checked in a year. Mike, The ALT: 53 fit the average according to the 21-72 range on the chart. Another value, AST was 35. The range was 17-59. But I don't know what AST means. Andy >> By the way, Andy, good for you on your tests. That 53 on the ALT is >> actually kind of high and you should keep an eye on it. The high side [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The ALT: 53 fit the average according to the 21-72 range on the chart. I don't know what chart that your doctor is using but its the wrong one. That 20 came off the top of my head and I think the top of the normal range is like 35. But whatever, keep an eye on it. I don't think there's a lot of concern until you're pushing 100. Just keep in mind that there are medicines that are pretty hard on your liver and you should always ask your doctor whether the medicines being prescribed are of any concern to a person with an elevated ALT. (This is my .02, that's all. Its certainly not medical advice.) Here is some further info on ALT and AST: http://tinyurl.com/5vzxd Mike >> Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four >> months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > saturated fat and eat a lot of carbs? Plus weight loss and exercise? > Is that the plan? That's a good question. I don't know. What would you do if you were in my shoes? > In any case, I wish you good luck. Thanks, Andy >>> Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four >>> months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What would you do if you were in my shoes? You had pancreatitis, right? If I was in your shoes, knowing what I know (which is not a lot), I would do the following. 1. Continue weight loss 2. Make sure I get a good quantity of exercise, in terms of hours per day 3. I would not smoke (not saying that you do, I do not remember if you do) 4. I would reduce carbs and eat more fat, to the extent that your pancreas permits that, since this low fat stuff is not helping anyway. What fat and how much more, is kind of an open question, perhaps some fish and chicken first and meat second. That would help you with your trigs and likely to improve LDL. 5. I would read as much as I can about cholesterol, its fractions, heart attacks, pancreatitis, side effects of cholesterol lowering drugs, their benefits etc, and perhaps seek out a specialist. Google and google groups can help find a lot of information. Unfortunately, there are more questions than answers in terms of deciding what to do (and whether you even have a problem) when you have high cholesterol that does not go down with a low fat diet. 6. If I have a good weight loss progress, I would not worry too much about heart attacks etc, it does not seem like there is much that you can do beyond what you are already doing, so even if you have a risk of a heart attacks, you seem to be working on getting into better shape already. You are facing a complicated question that has not been yet satisfactorily answered. Plus, you have constraints due to your specific illness (pancreatitis) Unfortunate, but not unusual. Did anyone in your family have heart attacks or strokes? Signature223/173.1/180 Ignoramus30876 <ignoramus30876@NOSPAM.30876.invalid> wrote in news:cvlju1 $pq1$0@pita.alt.net: > Did anyone in your family have heart attacks or strokes? I helped Pop into a stretcher after two EMS guys shook me awake. He had his first heart attack. I'll never forget him telling me I was the Man of the family and to take care of everyone. I asked him how he felt and he said he had a ton of weight on his chest. At the hospital I watched them break his ribcage open with some mechanical device and that's the last I remember. He lived through it. Years later he had to go through a quintuple heart bypass surgery. Damn shame after the bypass surgery, his leg hematoma'd and required 59 pints of blood transfusion. And one or more pints were tainted with HIV. Eight years later him and mom didn't last into their golden age as they'd planned. I buried them a year apart. Mom, 1990. Pop 1991. R.I.P. Andy > Ignoramus30876 <ignoramus30876@NOSPAM.30876.invalid> wrote in news:cvlju1 > $pq1$0@pita.alt.net: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Andy That's quite unfortunate Andy. Quite sad to see someone diet because of mistakes like that. There is definitely every reason to do the utmost to improve health. Signature223/173.1/180 > Ignoramus30876 <ignoramus30876@NOSPAM.30876.invalid> wrote in news:cvlju1 > $pq1$0@pita.alt.net: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Mom, 1990. Pop 1991. That's tough. That's such a hard thing to go through. I flew back to Michigan in 2001 for my father's funeral and found my mother drowned in the bathtub as a result of having a heart attack. I don't think that I've gotten over the shock or the loss, and don't know that I ever will. >> Ignoramus30876 <ignoramus30876@NOSPAM.30876.invalid> wrote in >> news:cvlju1 $pq1$0@pita.alt.net: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > that I've gotten over the shock or the loss, and don't know that I > ever will. Death no matter how respectable or otherwise IS tough. I always take comfort in this little poem: Sleep thy final sleep, free from care and sorrow. Rest where none weep, and we too shall follow. --Sebastian Dangerfield Andy > >>> Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four > >>> months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Did anyone in your family have heart attacks or strokes? The only thing that I might add (and I am not a medical doctor), is avoid short chain saturated fatty acids (palmitic and the like) and trans fats, as both have been shown to negatively impact cholesterol levels (LDL/HDL ratio as well as total). Long chain saturates are seemly neutral. Of course poly and mono unsaturated can help. Also, soluble fiber has been show to help lower cholesterol (oat bran), if you are going to try for high protein, you will need fiber (also, Metamucil-or generic equivalent-is great stuff. They make a sugar free variety). I had high cholesterol, high trigs, high BS--basic metabolic syndrome X. I convinced my doctor to give me one month to turn it around before drugs. Year four and no drugs yet--I got numbers that make my doc jealous. SignatureDr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick Proud member of the, "Vast right-wing conspiracy." > The only thing that I might add (and I am not a medical doctor), is avoid > short chain saturated fatty acids (palmitic and the like) and trans fats, as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will need fiber (also, Metamucil-or generic equivalent-is great stuff. They > make a sugar free variety). Can you tell us which foods have long vs. short saturated fatty acids? That's interesting. > I had high cholesterol, high trigs, high BS--basic metabolic > syndrome X. I convinced my doctor to give me one month to turn it > around before drugs. Year four and no drugs yet--I got numbers that > make my doc jealous. Congratulations. I am happy for you. So, what did you do to accomplish that? Signature223/173.2/180 > > The only thing that I might add (and I am not a medical doctor), is avoid > > short chain saturated fatty acids (palmitic and the like) and trans fats, as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Can you tell us which foods have long vs. short saturated fatty acids? > That's interesting. No off the top of my head; however, even traditional meats (chicken and beef) are getting their fat profiles out of wack due to all the "un-natural" feeding. Easier to avoid alot of saturated fats, avoid anything with partially hydrogenated fats, and skip the vegatable oil (for omega 6's). If you can find out about palmitic levels--nutrition search, that is the cut off for short sat acids (IIRC). Stearic was considered neutral, above okay (again IIRC). I don't have the study in front of me (I think it is filed away at home--or lost through time and wife induced cleaning). > > I had high cholesterol, high trigs, high BS--basic metabolic > > syndrome X. I convinced my doctor to give me one month to turn it > > around before drugs. Year four and no drugs yet--I got numbers that > > make my doc jealous. > > Congratulations. I am happy for you. So, what did you do to accomplish that? Complete lifestyle change. Believe it or not, low fat, high carb (but low glycemic carbs). Since then (as the education continues) I have moderated my diet. Basic rule: If they did more that kill it, clean it, and bag it. I don't eat it. I dropped from 285 lbs. to 175 lbs in about 9 months. Ran a couple of half marathons--convince I could do a marathon, but don't want to put my body through that. Didn't know about weight lifting, so I lost a lot of muscle (education comes with time), that has changed. Since then put back about 20 lbs (hopefully some muscle there), and now looking to keep my weight around 185-190. Cholesterol last check was like 110 (LDL/HDL close to 1!!) Trig are about 50 HbA1c was borderline LOW! Been like that for about the last 3 years. Everyday I learn more. Every day I struggle. I quit, when I die. Dr. Phil ain't got s%$t on Dr. Death when it comes to lifestyle motivation. If I get a chance to dig up some of the research this weekend, I'll post some paper names on Monday. I should be in the lab doing runs and have time on my hands. SignatureDr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick Proud member of the, "Vast right-wing conspiracy." >> Can you tell us which foods have long vs. short saturated fatty acids? >> That's interesting. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (again IIRC). I don't have the study in front of me (I think it is filed > away at home--or lost through time and wife induced cleaning). Thanks. >> > I had high cholesterol, high trigs, high BS--basic metabolic >> > syndrome X. I convinced my doctor to give me one month to turn it [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > paper names on Monday. I should be in the lab doing runs and have > time on my hands. Sounds ike a great accomplishment! Signature223/173.2/180 >>> Can you tell us which foods have long vs. short saturated fatty acids? >>> That's interesting. I did remember a few things, and I will try to dig up those papers. One, in most (all) of the studies, they had the folks on a strict diet (I think some were iso caloric) but had them eat different fat profiles, generally through butter or margarine (that they could control the sat fatty acid profile). The conclusion was that short chain fatty acids (lauric, myristic, palmitc--C12,C14,C16) were cholesterol increasers, while stearic (C18) was neutral. One of the common ways that people get too much of the short chains is through BUTTER. Another is when you substituent margarine, the solid kind. If you must add butter or butter substitute, make it the stuff that comes in a squeeze bottle with no trans fatty acids--must state that on the package. because it is not a solid at room temperature, it is mostly unsaturated fatty acids (has to do with the packing ability of the straight chain-sat--vs kinked chain-unsat). As far as other foods, I think that you are probably okay provided any oils you use are like olive and you do not get 100% of saturated fats from grain fed animals (add some nuts and such). Of course omega3 vs omega6 is a whole other game (and more important for overall health), while the sat vs unsat (provided you use common sense) is only critical when you have cholesterol issues. Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick ==================================== "Let be be finale of seem. The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream" Wallace Stevens-1923 ===================================== > >> Can you tell us which foods have long vs. short saturated fatty acids? > >> That's interesting. Okay, here are some papers that you may be interested in if you want to be careful about fats: Trans Fats: Lichtenstien, et al. 2001, J. Lipid Res. 42, 597-604 Impact of hydrogenated fat on high density lipoprotein subfractions and metabolism Lechtenstein, et al. 2003, Atherosclerosis, 171, 97-107 Influence of hydrogenated fat and butter on CVD risk factors: remnant -like particles, glucose and insulin, blood pressure adn C-reactive protein. Matthan, et al. 2001, J. Lipid Res. 42, 1841-1848 Hydrogenated fat consumption affects acylation-stimulating protein levels and cholesterol esterification rates in moderately hypercholesterolemia women Matthan, et al. 2000, J. Lipid Res. 41, 834-839 Hydrogenated fat consumption effects cholesterol synthesis in moderately hypercholesterolemia women Saturated Fat Wood, et al. 1993, J. Lipid Res. 34, 1-11 Effect of butter, mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acid-enriched butter, trans fatty acid margarine, and zero trans fatty acid margarine on serum lipids and lipoprotein in healthy men Mensink, R. and Katan, M. 1987, Lancet,122-125 Effect of monounsaturated fatty acids versus complex carbohydrates on high-density lipoproteins in healthy men and women Swagell, et al 2005, Biochem and Biophys Res Comm., 328, 432-441 Expression analysis of a human hepatic cell line in response to palmitate Kelishhadi, et al. 2004, Prevent Medicine, 39, 760-766 Dietary fat intake and lipid profiles of Iranian adolescents: Isfahan Healthy Heart Program-Heart Health Promotion from Childhood Abeywardena, M. 2003, Atherosclerosis, 171, 157-161 Dietary fats, carbohydrates and vascular disease: Sri Lankan perspectives (Review) Rivellese, et al. 2003, Atherosclerosis, 167, 149-158 Effects of dietary saturated, monounsaturated adn n-3 fatty acids on fasting lipoproteins, LDL size and post-prandial lipid metabolism in healthy subjects Nicolosi, et al. 1998, J. Lipid Res., 39, 1972-1980 Effects of specific fatty acids (8:0, 14:0, cis-18:1, trans-18:1) on plasma lipoproteins, early atherogenic potential, and LDL oxidation properties in the hamster Bremer, J. and Norum, K. 1982, J. Lipid Res. 23, 243-256 Metabolism of very long-chain monounsaturated fatty acids (22:1) and the adaptation to their presence in the diet (Review) Hasegawa, T. and Oshima, M. 1999, Diebetes REs Clinical Pract. 46, 115-120 Serum fatty acid composition as a marker of eating habits in normal and diabetic subjects I have a lot more somewhere, but that should get you started. I think that J. Lipid Research is free on-line (for past issues--I have a subscription so I am not sure of that). -- Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick >> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:15:52 -0500, Dr_Dickie <Dr_Dicke@chembench.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 > Poking kooks with a pointy stick Thanks Dr, great stuff. I just read most of the abstracts that you mentioned and it was a great read. Signature223/173.2/180 >>> Doc agreed that between the diet and exercise, he'd hold off for four >>> months and then apply meds if the next bloodwork numbers didn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What would you do if you were in my shoes? Fat is one of the worst things you can do for pancreatitis. I would stay the course if I were you but make sure that you're eating "good" carbs like whole grains, oatmeal, beans, and fruit. There are also decent lean sources of protein besides tuna and chicken breast (ff cottage cheese, soy substitutes, etc). so being on a lf plan doesn't have to be monotonous or painful. Jenn > Drug companies spend billions to get doctors prescribe their meds to > patients, it is an enormously profitable business for them. I own stock [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > side effects such as "feeling weak and lousy" are not bad enough to be > officially noticed and included in the side effect list. My husband has been on at least 3 different cholesterol meds and they all make him feel lousy. He finally got them to cut the dose in half and now he only feels half as miserable. :-/ SignatureSnowshoeing . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115 New Scale Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 >> Drug companies spend billions to get doctors prescribe their meds to >> patients, it is an enormously profitable business for them. I own stock [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > make him feel lousy. He finally got them to cut the dose in half and now > he only feels half as miserable. :-/ Sorry to hear about that. That's what I heard from other people too, including my relative. Signature223/173.1/180 "He finally got them to cut the dose in half." Does your husband have a gun pointed to his head? Our trust in doctors is a throwback from many many many years ago and is totally out of whack today when almost all the information your doctor has is from drug companies, rather than experience, research or any form of qualitative data. Is your doctor reading (and understanding) even half the studies posted in here, let alone all the myriad journals and publications? If your hubby thinks his dose should be half (or zero) then your hubby is free to cut the pills in half, skip a pill, throw the pills out or whatever. Take control, and responsibility, for your own health and for god's sake what you put into your mouth and expect your liver to deal with. k > My husband has been on at least 3 different cholesterol meds and they all > make him feel lousy. He finally got them to cut the dose in half and now > he only feels half as miserable. :-/ > If your hubby thinks his dose should be half (or zero) then your hubby > is free to cut the pills in half, skip a pill, throw the pills out or > whatever. > > Take control, and responsibility, for your own health and for god's > sake what you put into your mouth and expect your liver to deal with. Whoa, Nellie! He's a grownup and absolutely in charge of his own health care. Even I don't get a vote <g> He is also a totally diet controlled diabetic. He lost over 100 pounds and they even suggested he gain a bit back. If he's taking the meds, it's because he's researched them and decided they will help him. I'm not altogether sure it's wise to pay docs for their knowledge and then ignore what they say. SignatureSnowshoeing . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115 New Scale Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 >>If your hubby thinks his dose should be half (or zero) then your hubby >>is free to cut the pills in half, skip a pill, throw the pills out or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I'm not altogether sure it's wise to pay docs for their knowledge and > then ignore what they say. You said "He finally got them to cut the dose in half." All I was saying is that if your hubby wants the dose in half, then your hubby doesnt have to "get them" to do anything. Its very refreshing to hear that your hubby researches and decides for himself. In general, I dont find that to be true (maybe in real life, not here on the newsgroups). Due to countless errors, misguided analysis and outright wrong information, I do think its wise to at least question what they say. k > Its very refreshing to hear that your hubby researches and decides for > himself. In general, I dont find that to be true (maybe in real life, > not here on the newsgroups). What I meant was I dont find that many research and decide for themselves in real life, maybe here on the newsgroups there are more that DO research and decide for themselves. k |
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