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Re: GRR! overate AGAIN (pictures)

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Ignoramus15794 - 21 Feb 2005 21:53 GMT
Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
pictures of anorexic women at

http://tinyurl.com/5mb8l

Please do not visit that website if you have heart problems or ate
recently. It is seriously gross.

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Matthew Venhaus - 21 Feb 2005 22:08 GMT
> Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
> pictures of anorexic women at
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Please do not visit that website if you have heart problems or ate
> recently. It is seriously gross.

I did not visit the site; I think it exploitation of showing photos of
individuals with this mental disorder that is gross.
--
Matthew
185/177/160
Ignoramus15794 - 21 Feb 2005 22:11 GMT
>> Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
>> pictures of anorexic women at
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I did not visit the site; I think it exploitation of showing photos of
> individuals with this mental disorder that is gross.

I believe that it was posted by one of the women pictured on it. It is
a Yahoo! photo album. It does not look like a commercial exploitation
(other than the fact that Yahoo! may make money from ad banners).

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Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 22 Feb 2005 09:06 GMT
It just goes to point up how pernicious a disease anorexia is. I
remember reading something about what they call "pro-ana" sites, whose
URLs are traded among anorectics, where they advocate "the lifestyle".
Apparently, not only do they reinforce resistance to treatment, but
seeing the pictures can trigger relapses in recovering anorectics.

I've only known three in my 48 years, one at a kids camp I worked at
(where she used to swim hundreds of laps daily and in a bathing suit
looked like a concentration camp survivor), one at college (who we used
to call her the Ghost of Mia Farrow) and one at the office who was the
daughter of a manager. The one at the office ended up dying of her
illness despite many hospitalizations and many desperate attempts by
her parents to find treatment for her that would work. The woman at the
office was also a binger/purger and abuser of laxatives, plus an
obsessive exerciser. Coworkers just didn't know what to make of her,
since she was clearly very intelligent, but she looked like the women
in those photos, and wore heavy long sleeved sweaters even on the
hottest days. She had food hidden all over the office.

It must be hugely frustrating for the family to see someone doing that
and not be able to get them to realize they are ill, or get them to
stop.

Mary G.
Meghan Noecker - 22 Feb 2005 07:00 GMT
>> Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
>> pictures of anorexic women at
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I did not visit the site; I think it exploitation of showing photos of
>individuals with this mental disorder that is gross.

I didn't visit it either, but I wanted to point out that there are
many sites for people wanting to be that skinny, and they actually
find those skinny people to be ideal. So, while they are disgusting to
us, many of them would not be considered exploitation.

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Matthew Venhaus - 22 Feb 2005 14:20 GMT
> >> Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
> >> pictures of anorexic women at
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> find those skinny people to be ideal. So, while they are disgusting to
> us, many of them would not be considered exploitation.

Maybe exploitation--in its traditional meaning--was the wrong word to use.
This website does a much better job of expressing what I mean:
http://www.gurze.net/site12_5_00/picturesofanorexia.htm

Excerpts:

If however, you are looking for photos that are salacious or sensationalize
eating disorders, we oppose this use of them. These photos are demeaning.
They stereotype and trivialize both the individual photographed and the
scores of unseen sufferers and their families. They are also disrespectful
of professional clinicians and researchers who have devoted their lives to
helping women and men with anorexia nervosa, bulimia, binge eating disorder,
and other related problems.

...

Maybe that's why you found this page. There is nothing titillating about
images of people with these disorders. I've seen pictures in medical books
and even show the slide of a male anorexic in some of my clinical talks.
There's nothing sexy about these photos. They do not record achievement,
only obsessive and potentially deadly behavior.

Students who write papers on eating disorders need to understand the
seriousness of these problems. How would you illustrate a paper on
schizophrenia or claustrophobia? If you write a paper on alcoholism, do you
show photos of people drinking? Are they your loved ones? Individuals with
anorexia nervosa and bulimia are your neighbors, families, and
friends--people working in the stores where you shop and the school you
attend. Please respect them by not showing them.
--
Matthew
185/177/160
Polar Light - 22 Feb 2005 15:04 GMT
> Students who write papers on eating disorders need to understand the
> seriousness of these problems. How would you illustrate a paper on
> schizophrenia or claustrophobia? If you write a paper on alcoholism, do
> you
> show photos of people drinking?

If your intention is to put people off drinking you could show pics of
people who have become destitute as a result of alcoholism, such as 'winos'.
I have seen TV ads as part of anti-drug campaigs where they show derelict
looking, 'spaced-out' young people as a warning of the effects of drugs.
Nothing wrong with that.

Are they your loved ones? Individuals with
> anorexia nervosa and bulimia are your neighbors, families, and
> friends--people working in the stores where you shop and the school you
> attend. Please respect them by not showing them.

As a woman without any sort of medical background, my point of view is
rather different. Firstly, I note that the girls are happily posing, many of
them without clothes, which would seem to indicate that, to THEM, there's
nothing wrong with their bodies. I know very well that, if for whatever
reason you feel ashamed of your body, you avoid showing too much of it. If
you think you're too fat, too thin or just not well shaped, you don't want a
picture of you in your underwear, full stop. Their willingness to pose like
that may have something to do with their distorted body image, I've always
heard anorexics don't really think they're too thin.

For those of us who have not yet lost touch with reality like they have,
seeing pictures like that is the best way to keep us from developing such
disorders. Like they say, a picture is worth more than 1000 words. Reading
that you shouldn't try to lose too much weight 'coz it COULD damage you
health IN SOME WAY is just too abstract for many, especially young women.
Seeing pictures like that makes people who are still 'sane' (in the sense of
not having an eating disorder) say 'no way I'd like to end up looking like
that'. To those who already have the disorder it makes no difference, since
they're obviously not aware that something's wrong with their bodies. That's
probably the best way to illustrate the difference between a slimmer & an
anorexic.
Ignoramus15841 - 22 Feb 2005 16:20 GMT
>> Students who write papers on eating disorders need to understand
>> the seriousness of these problems. How would you illustrate a paper
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> they show derelict looking, 'spaced-out' young people as a warning
> of the effects of drugs. Nothing wrong with that.

While I agree with you, I want to point out something else.

The page that I posted was made by anorexics who were happy to display
their progress. It is my take on why it was created. The page is not
commercial in nature and the only commercial exploitation is Yahoo!
making money from ad banners.

>  Are they your loved ones? Individuals with
>> anorexia nervosa and bulimia are your neighbors, families, and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> posing, many of them without clothes, which would seem to indicate
> that, to THEM, there's nothing wrong with their bodies.

None of them is without all clothes though.

> I know very well that, if for whatever reason you feel ashamed of
> your body, you avoid showing too much of it. If you think you're too
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> with their bodies. That's probably the best way to illustrate the
> difference between a slimmer & an anorexic.

Thank you for your well reasoned opinion. These people posted their
pictures publicly, probably being proud of their unfortunate
"progress". There is nothing wrong with us looking at what they want
others to see, and drawing conclusions.

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Polar Light - 22 Feb 2005 17:36 GMT
>> If your intention is to put people off drinking you could show pics
>> of people who have become destitute as a result of alcoholism, such
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> commercial in nature and the only commercial exploitation is Yahoo!
> making money from ad banners.

That would explain it. There are people into all sorts of things, always
have been, only now, with the Net, everybody gets to know about it.

>>  Are they your loved ones? Individuals with
>>> anorexia nervosa and bulimia are your neighbors, families, and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> None of them is without all clothes though.

It's not meant to be an x-rated site but many have taken off enough to
reveal their shapes, certainly a lot more than I'd take off if I looked like
that.

>> I know very well that, if for whatever reason you feel ashamed of
>> your body, you avoid showing too much of it. If you think you're too
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> "progress". There is nothing wrong with us looking at what they want
> others to see, and drawing conclusions.

I agree. They obviously want to be seen like that, even proudly displaying
their bones. With some of them you get the impression of looking at an
X-ray!!!
Matthew Venhaus - 22 Feb 2005 16:38 GMT
> As a woman without any sort of medical background, my point of view is
> rather different. Firstly, I note that the girls are happily posing, many of
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> probably the best way to illustrate the difference between a slimmer & an
> anorexic.

For some people, seeing such pictures may motivate them to do whatever it
takes to look like the individual photographed. IMHO such pictures can do no
good and may be harmful to a certain subset of the population.
--
Matthew
185/177/160
Black Metal Martha - 22 Feb 2005 16:37 GMT
> > As a woman without any sort of medical background, my point of view is
> > rather different. Firstly, I note that the girls are happily posing, many
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> takes to look like the individual photographed. IMHO such pictures can do no
> good and may be harmful to a certain subset of the population.

Exactly. You get it, I wish more did. When I suffered from anorexia, I
would have done anything to look like to thinnest models. Well, I
nearly did do anything.

Martha
Polar Light - 22 Feb 2005 17:28 GMT
>> For those of us who have not yet lost touch with reality like they have,
>> seeing pictures like that is the best way to keep us from developing such
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> For some people, seeing such pictures may motivate them to do whatever it
> takes to look like the individual photographed.

If s/one sees that & says 'I want to look like that', then there's ALREADY
something wrong with that person in the first place. Whilst we'd all like to
be thin (and models are thin), those girls don't look like models, they look
terminally ill!

> IMHO such pictures can do no good and may be harmful to a certain subset
> of the population.

Could be true, but it's rather like saying that, after watching a murder
mystery on TV, some people could go & strangle their husbands/wives...

When two 10 yr olds tortured & murdered a 2 yr old boy for no reason
whatsoever, many blamed their actions on the influence of violent videos
they may have watched. However, millions of kids watch the same videos &
don't go round killing toddlers!
Black Metal Martha - 22 Feb 2005 01:55 GMT
> Thanks to Cubit from alt.support.diet.low-carb, we can now see
> pictures of anorexic women at

(erased site address for everyone with decency and good taste)

> Please do not visit that website if you have heart problems or ate
> recently. It is seriously gross.

And what's even grosser is you posting it here! How dare you exploit
those with serious illnesses? There are few people in the US who do not
know someone with anorexia, except for perhaps you, the Clueless
Wonder. You didn't even know the Superbowl was on! lol!!!!

Martha
Polar Light - 22 Feb 2005 09:35 GMT
> And what's even grosser is you posting it here! How dare you exploit
> those with serious illnesses? There are few people in the US who do not
> know someone with anorexia, except for perhaps you, the Clueless
> Wonder. You didn't even know the Superbowl was on! lol!!!!

There's no exploitation since there's no exchange of money, not even a
requirement to sign up, subscribe or provide any personal data. The girls
seem to be posing, not taken by surprise in the shower, they were obviously
happy to have their pics taken.

It is certainly an eye opener, you may know s/one with anorexia but you
don't usually get to see them without clothes. The fully clothed girl in
long sleeves & pants didn't look too bad and, as a woman, one may think she
looks better than a fat person would in the same clothes. Seeing them in
underwear is something else, rather shocking.

Women develop anorexia as a result of our concern with LOOKS, not health,
thus seeing how not eating can completely spoil your looks & make you uglier
than a fat girl can have a lot more effect than all those health warnings,
especially amongst teenagers & young women.
Ignoramus15841 - 22 Feb 2005 16:27 GMT
>> And what's even grosser is you posting it here! How dare you exploit
>> those with serious illnesses? There are few people in the US who do not
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> data. The girls seem to be posing, not taken by surprise in the
> shower, they were obviously happy to have their pics taken.

I would say that they looked proud to have the kind of bodies that
they had.

> It is certainly an eye opener, you may know s/one with anorexia but
> you don't usually get to see them without clothes. The fully clothed
> girl in long sleeves & pants didn't look too bad and, as a woman,
> one may think she looks better than a fat person would in the same
> clothes. Seeing them in underwear is something else, rather
> shocking.

I have not seen even one attractive woman on that site.

> Women develop anorexia as a result of our concern with LOOKS, not
> health, thus seeing how not eating can completely spoil your looks &
> make you uglier than a fat girl can have a lot more effect than all
> those health warnings, especially amongst teenagers & young women.

One has to only wonder how a concern with appearance can drive them to
become so gross looking. Quite unfortunate for them.

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GaryG - 22 Feb 2005 18:04 GMT
> >> And what's even grosser is you posting it here! How dare you exploit
> >> those with serious illnesses? There are few people in the US who do not
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> One has to only wonder how a concern with appearance can drive them to
> become so gross looking. Quite unfortunate for them.

I wonder if it's "appearance" that's driving them.  In the link I posted a
while back on the mental effects of starvation, it was noted that one of the
effects is loss of interest in sex.  I wonder if starving like that is a way
of controlling/suppressing sexual desire.  I've heard that a rather large
percentage of anorexics have been sexually abused and/or molested, so
perhaps starving is one way for them to distance themselves from their
sexual selves.

GG
Ignoramus15841 - 22 Feb 2005 18:13 GMT
>> One has to only wonder how a concern with appearance can drive them to
>> become so gross looking. Quite unfortunate for them.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> been sexually abused and/or molested, so perhaps starving is one way
> for them to distance themselves from their sexual selves.

As a matter of speculation, that is possible, although these kinds of
statements are difficult to verify. Even light starvation dampens
libido.

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Beverly - 22 Feb 2005 18:19 GMT
> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:35:53 +0100, Polar Light <nospam@polar-light.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> GG

This site has quite a bit of information on the subject.  It looks like
there is quite a range of reasons one might have a problem.

http://www.pale-reflections.com/eating_disorders.asp?page=causes
Black Metal Martha - 22 Feb 2005 16:36 GMT
> > And what's even grosser is you posting it here! How dare you exploit
> > those with serious illnesses? There are few people in the US who do not
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> than a fat girl can have a lot more effect than all those health warnings,
> especially amongst teenagers & young women.

All you have to do is look at most actresses. They are for the most
part underweight with many suffering from anorexia. Especially this
week, when they all starve to fit into the designer gowns for the
Oscars. Take a look at all the stars who show up and realize they loko
10-20 pounds heavier on tv.

Martha
sej29@cornell.edu - 22 Feb 2005 21:30 GMT
> Women develop anorexia as a result of our concern with LOOKS, not health,
> thus seeing how not eating can completely spoil your looks & make you uglier
> than a fat girl can have a lot more effect than all those health warnings,
> especially amongst teenagers & young women.

The concern with looks is usually only a surface issue. Anorexia is
about control; it occurs often where the woman OR man (happens to both
sexes) has underlying 'out-of-control' issues. Like a history of abuse,
for example.
shugahkitty - 22 Feb 2005 23:14 GMT
yes it sounds like it is a very deep emotionally-seated issue--i must admit
i do not understand the extent of it; ive studied it quite a bit at uni,
and am still baffled.  this is why i guess i don't believe i am anorexic,
but display disordered eating patterns.
i certainly dont think the list is exhaustive or that one category
excludes the other, tho.
what about that olsen twin...was she really anorexic? they say anorexic
girls like to hide their bodies b/c they are very ashamed of them? is this
true?
JennA - 23 Feb 2005 01:22 GMT
> yes it sounds like it is a very deep emotionally-seated issue--i must
> admit
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> girls like to hide their bodies b/c they are very ashamed of them? is this
> true?

I don't believe that you can say that about all people with anorexia.  I've
met a lot of anorexic women in my life due to my own eating disorders and it
was primarily the younger ones that were very much into hiding in layers of
clothing.  This is probably because they have parents around and are trying
to hide the fact that they aren't eating.  The adults I knew and ones I know
now tend to dress like normal mature women.

Jenn
Polar Light - 23 Feb 2005 12:10 GMT
>> Women develop anorexia as a result of our concern with LOOKS, not
> health,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> sexes) has underlying 'out-of-control' issues. Like a history of abuse,
> for example.

This is true, however, anorexia has been on the increase ever since it
became fashionable to be very thin. AFAIK, in the 50s Hollywood stars like M
Monroe were curvaceous & girls wanted to have shapely bodies too. In the
60s, supermodel Twiggy, who was naturally thin, rose to fame & from then on
it became the norm for models to be too thin. The trend was followed by
Hollywood and soon the whole Western world wanted to lose weight, even those
who weren't overweight.

The trend lives on, some people say it's for economic reasons, the slimming
industry is worth billions around the world despite the fact that losing
weight is something you can well do without spending any money.
Black Metal Martha - 26 Feb 2005 16:44 GMT
> > The concern with looks is usually only a surface issue.

Yes, that's a common misunderstanding.

Anorexia is
> > about control; it occurs often where the woman OR man (happens to both
> > sexes) has underlying 'out-of-control' issues. Like a history of abuse,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 60s, supermodel Twiggy, who was naturally thin, rose to fame & from then on
> it became the norm for models to be too thin.

Twiggy was definitely NOT that naturally thin. Let's talk uppers... if
you examine NYC and London at that time, virtually the whole
fashion/art world didn't eat and relied on drugs to keep them thin.
Andy certainly wouldn't have approved of anyone with any meat on them.

The trend was followed by
> Hollywood and soon the whole Western world wanted to lose weight, even those
> who weren't overweight.
>
> The trend lives on, some people say it's for economic reasons, the slimming
> industry is worth billions around the world despite the fact that losing
> weight is something you can well do without spending any money.

It's also elitist to be extremely thin because of all the XXL clothes
around, so not be part of the herd and to be very very thin means
you're on par with movie stars and super models.

But, with that said, anorexia has been around in great numbers for a
long, long time, people just didn't call it that and didn't know it was
a disorder.

Ballet dancers, gymnists and others have suffered from it for decades.
Little girls have been dying of starvation off the headlines and
television channels for quite a while. The numbers have risen, for
sure, but it's not a new condition. The usual victim is a *perfect*
girl with excellent grades who always follows their parents' orders.
Food is the only control they have in their lives and they use it to
run the family like a loaded weapon. In her own way, she can control
exactly what the family does just by the threat of her own death.

The disorder has now spread to older women and it is especially a
problem in the gay community with younger gay men. The thinner the
better.

Martha
shugahkitty - 22 Feb 2005 17:08 GMT
eww okay guys that is gross, i do NOT look like that...!!!!!!!! but point
taken
(i never want to look like that by the way--it's sick!!)
Ignoramus15841 - 22 Feb 2005 17:13 GMT
> eww okay guys that is gross, i do NOT look like that...!!!!!!!! but
> point taken (i never want to look like that by the way--it's sick!!)

I am glad that you do not look like that...

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