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Blowing out my Knee?

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Annie Benson Lennaman - 23 Feb 2005 19:03 GMT
   
   Last week I asked the question at to whether or not I might be
exercising enough.  I got several informative replies, for which I am
grateful.  

   Well, I am keeping up with my exercise, but I am hitting a snag.  
First a bit of background.  I'm a 40 year old woman, I currently weigh
252 lbs.  A couple of years ago, I noticed that I could hear a faint
snapping and crackling when I moved my left knee, and it was just a bit
sore.  I went to the doctor who said that I might be losing a bit
cartilage in that joint.  He recommended that I take Glucosamine
Chondroitin complex, and do a certain weight lifting exercise to
strengthen my muscles in my thighs so my kneecap would "track"
correctly.  I regret to say that since it really wasn't bothering me too
much, and because I tend to be very lazy, I did neither.  My knee, for
the past couple of years, has not appeared to be getting worse.

  A couple o'three weeks ago, I decided to start a reducing diet and
start exercising.  I have an elliptical trainer and weight lifting
machine in my home.  My routine has been to spend 20 minutes a day on
the elliptical 5 days a week, and work out with the weights 3 times a
week.  I have see definite improvements in my stamina and even my
strength in that short a period, and I really want to continue.

  But, the snag.  My knee is making alot more noise now than it had
before I started my new routine, and now it is getting sore.  Not
shooting, stabbing pains.  Just a general, mild soreness when I move
it.  I have started taking the glucosamine chondroitin, and am doing the
exercise the doctor recommended, as well as popping the occasional
aspirin.  I am not crippled by this, but it is troublesome to me.

  I really do want to keep exercising, but I don't want to blow out my
knee.  I don't currently have medical insurance, so would really like to
put off going to a doctor unless I really, really have to.  Anyone have
any sort of general advice that I might follow?

Signature

Annie

Ignoramus21810 - 23 Feb 2005 19:13 GMT
The general advice is to not do anything that makes the knees
hurt. Going to doctors may be difficult due to insurance issues, but
it is a good time to start reading about this.

Can you try changing your exercise routine to see if you can find some
exercises that are easier on the knees. Examples are swimming and
walking. Since you are a heavy person, walking may be still a strain
on the knees, but swimming may be a good start if you can find a
swimming pool where you feel comfortable. Some people here started off
with "water aerobics".

I had similar knee pains myself, for years. They became somewhat
better with weight loss, but did not go away. They did go away when I
(at normal weight) switch to a low carb diet and stopped eating
grains, beans etc. Perhaps it is coincidental, but I consider that
unlikely.

In the worst case, you can lose weight without aerobic exercise, it is
completely doable. Do not give up dieting if you cannot find exercises
that are acceptable for your knees.

Signature

223/173.1/180

Chris - 23 Feb 2005 19:28 GMT
Annie, I used to have really serious knee problems 4 or 5 years ago,
and was given a similar diagnosis and recommendations to you.  The
exercises I was given -- more stretching than anything else -- were
tedious, and I didn't stay with them too long.  But I did start taking
glucosamine chondroitin (and I still do).  It takes a couple of months
to make a difference, but I do think it helps.  I began doing water
aerobics, and that gave me a way to exercise and also, I think, helped
my knees.  After a while I got involved in weight lifting, and I think
that probably helped more than anything else.  While some people say
that leg extensions are contraindicated for knee problems, I believe
they helped me.  I also think squatting below parallel helps, but you
will get massive debate on that :-).  I don't know exactly what in all
this helped, but my knees are vastly improved.  I can even run, which
I'd never have thought possible.

Is it the elliptical trainer that's causing you knee pain, or aren't
you sure?  I'd recommend backing off on any exercise that hurts until
you are pain free, and then easing back into it or trying an
alternative.  Stretching before you exercise might help.

If you feel that the pain is accompanied by inflammation, I'd suggest
ibuprofen rather than aspirin; it's a better anti-inflammatory.  And
ice can help as well.

Losing weight will likely help yours knees, of course.  But I
experienced virtually all of the improvement in mine before I ever
began dieting.  (I didn't run when I was at my heaviest, though, and I
don't know that my knees would have tolerated that.  I began running --
VERY gradually -- at about 220 lbs.)

I hope you can resolve this.  It was a scary time for me, too, and I
count my blessings that the problems have gone away, at least for now.
(By the way, I'm female and 56 -- turning 57 in a couple of months.)

Chris
262/130s/130s
JayJay - 23 Feb 2005 19:56 GMT
> Annie, I used to have really serious knee problems 4 or 5 years ago,
> and was given a similar diagnosis and recommendations to you.  The
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> this helped, but my knees are vastly improved.  I can even run, which
> I'd never have thought possible.

Heh... believe it or not, in my case, running doesn't bother my knees as
much as walking does.   Its all about the form.  WHen I run/jog, I've got
alot more bounce in my step and therfore cushion my knees more and don't
hyper extend them when out in the forward postition.  But when walking, its
a stiffer movement and if I am not focused on the core and form, I can
easily hyperextend and cause pain.

I also have found that leg extensions help - especially if you twist your
foot inward or outward in order to more target those muscles on either side
of the knee.  I still go lighter on the weight just so I don't accidentally
do damage, but I can feel a big difference.   Likewise the leg press (as
apposed to squatting) because it is easier to position the feet at certain
degrees and angles to more target the different muscles around the knee.

As for the squatting - I do tend to agree with your advice - ATG approach
as opposed to parallel.  At Parallel, you are making a full force change at
the most critical central point of the workout, thus causing extra strain
on the knee.  Whereas w/ ATG approach, you are going thru a full range of
motion and making the weight/force changes at the end points of the range
and this is less strenuous on the knee joint itself.  
Annie Benson Lennaman - 25 Feb 2005 18:47 GMT
  Thanks for the responses, everyone, though the answers weren't really
what I wanted to hear.  Based on what you guys wrote, I decided to take
a (hopeful) short break from my exercise routine.  My knee is already
feeling better after a 3 day rest, so I am hopeful I can start up
again.  When I do, I'll pay better attention to my form on the
elliptical; it hadn't occurred to me that I might be overextending on
that thing.  And I'll get my hands on, what was it someone said,
ibuprofen? to help with inflammation.  I live in a very rural area, so
going to a pool is sort of out of the question unless I dig my own in
the back yard (Or build a moat.  I've kinda been wanting to have one of
those anyways).  

  It was leg extensions the doctor told me to do, I believe.  I've been
doing the whole range, but will cut that back as suggested.  I think my
biggest problem is my very weight, it can't be easy for my body to haul
all that mass around.  I've lost a pound this week even with not doing
my work outs, so maybe I can still loose even without them. I've heard
that one doesn't really have to loose that much to have a good effect to
one's joints; I'm certainly hope that is true.  I'm weary of being this
fat.  It was sorta depressing to think I might be too big to the the
stuff that would help me get down to a reasonable size.

Signature

Annie

Chris Braun - 25 Feb 2005 22:35 GMT
>It was sorta depressing to think I might be too big to the the
>stuff that would help me get down to a reasonable size.

Annie, don't think that!  Any exercise you can do will help.  And it
is indeed possible to lose weight even if you can't exercise.  When I
was at my heaviest I was much more limited in what I could do, but I
did some things and gradually more became possible.  Just take it a
day at a time.  You will get there -- really!

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004
JayJay - 26 Feb 2005 02:07 GMT
another thing to consider is to get a knee brace.  You can generally find
these at your local pharmacy or Walmart, and better ones at sports stores.
When you do exercise, having the knee brace can help the patella track
better and depending on the variety you get, it can help you from
hyperextending it.  Just something to consider.

Wait a couple weeks and if the knee feels better, get back to the exercise
but go easy.   In the mean time - don't stop doing upper body exercises.
Anything you do can help.

>    Thanks for the responses, everyone, though the answers weren't really
> what I wanted to hear.  Based on what you guys wrote, I decided to take
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> fat.  It was sorta depressing to think I might be too big to the the
> stuff that would help me get down to a reasonable size.
Matthew Venhaus - 23 Feb 2005 19:37 GMT
>     Last week I asked the question at to whether or not I might be
> exercising enough.  I got several informative replies, for which I am
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> put off going to a doctor unless I really, really have to.  Anyone have
> any sort of general advice that I might follow?

I think the glucosamine is a good idea. What rehab exercises are recommended
by your doctor? I would recommend step-ups
(http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBStepUp.html) starting with
no weight and about a 6" step. If you are doing leg extension
(http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/LVLegExtension.html) you
should do only the last 15-20 degrees of the movement.

IT Band stretches are also recommended but these can be painful and you
would typically have to go to a Physical Therapist. You could try the
stretches on http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/itb_stretch/ at home.

I don't remember your previous post, but if some of your exercise involves
bicycling you might want to stop until the problem improves a bit.
--
Matthew
185/176/160
Chris - 23 Feb 2005 19:42 GMT
> IT Band stretches are also recommended but these can be painful and you
> would typically have to go to a Physical Therapist.

IT band "stripping massage" can be helpful too, but it hurts like a
b****.  My lifting coach is also my massage therapist and he did this
for me, and I really do think it helped.  But it isn't a lot of fun.

Chris
262/130s/130s
JennA - 23 Feb 2005 19:47 GMT
>> IT Band stretches are also recommended but these can be painful and
> you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> b****.  My lifting coach is also my massage therapist and he did this
> for me, and I really do think it helped.  But it isn't a lot of fun.

I have found that also to be the case and the same with pretty much all
sports related "therapeutic" massages.  Had one done yesterday on the upper
arm/shoulder area that was absolutely not fun.

BTW another good thing for the IT band area are foam rollers.  I've been
using one for about a month now on my legs, back and hip flexors and it's
done some amazing stuff as far as loosening up things and relieving pain.

Jenn
JayJay - 23 Feb 2005 19:48 GMT
Annie,

I have the same condition with my left knee.   Medically known as
Chondromalsia, or patella tracking syndrome.

I went thru physical therapy for the exercises as well as the
anti-inflamitory for the internal swelling from the irritation.

The key to my healing was to stop wearing heeled shoes.  For me its a
matter of stance and walking posture when in heels that helped cause the
problem.

Also, I noticed I tend to hyper extend my knee when I walk.  (this is where
I extend my leg all the way out till the joint goes totally straight and
then some).  This caused alot of pain.

I have to concentrate on my posture when I walk (especially if I'm walking
fast).  

Also - at 252lbs, you are putting a great deal of stress on your joints
that is probably contributing to the problem.   Losing weight to a more
appropriate weight for your height and age would be better.  

Exercising on the elliptical will help, as it is less strenuous on the
joints - but just be sure you aren't over doing your stride and
hyperextending your knee.  I've found that if I'm not careful I can do that
on the elliptical.

Also, if you find the daily exercise is getting to be too much on your knee
- you may want to find another form of cardio until you get your weight
down.   For instance - swimming is a great way to get cardio in with no
impact on the knees.   If you alternate out your elliptical traing a few
days a week and swimming or other non impact aerobic/cardio training you
will give your knee more time to rest and recouperate between workouts.

Go easy on the weight lifting on those knee using load baring exercises.
Make sure your form is correct when doing your exercises.  

My physical therapist advised against squats but for leg press - as it is
less load baring on the knees.  Likewise she advized against lunges, but
for stepup

I personally experimented and found the more solid I keep my "core" the
better my posture and form is for keeping good form and not causing injury.
For infromation on this - check out Pilates or Yoga.  

There is so much more I could go into, as I live with this problem and have
researched and experimented a great deal on this stuff.  Feel free to ask
questions.
 
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