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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2005HOW?
I'm STILL trying to stop this insane eating patern. I've not gone a sizr larger but clothingis fitting more snug. How does one get back to the BETTER eating? Remember, I can do almost no exercise. The battle has become harder. glo What was insane about your eating pattern? BCJ asked: what is wrong with my eating patern? Well I just eat way too much but I never feel satisfied. I can't seem to get to healthy eating. I've lost over 100 lbs about 20 years ago with a gain of maybe 14 lbs. I can't turn it around and I can get little exercise as I'm with ms. I go to a sedendary job three days a week. I just seem to binge & I can't stop this. glo Gloria, I thought that you said that you were on South Beach diet and it reduced your binge urges. Am I mistaken?  Signature223/173.2/180 My guess on uncontrolled appetite is that either you were previously calorie restricted, and the body is compensating, or there is a nutritional deficit, and the body is trying to correct the deficit. It is also possible that high carbs can exacerbate the effect. > BCJ asked: what is wrong with my eating patern? > Well I just eat way too much but I never feel satisfied. I can't seem to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > glo > I'm STILL trying to stop this insane eating patern. I've not gone a sizr > larger but clothingis fitting more snug. How does one get back to the > BETTER eating? Remember, I can do almost no exercise. The battle has > become harder. > > glo Glo, First step is you need to start tracking your intake again. Set asside your food requirement for the day and be sure to have plenty of food, keep it high protein and cut down on the sugary carbs and empty calories. For me, the first 2 weeks are the worst, but by the 3 week I've settled into a groove and can do ok with food. Maybe you are similar. I'd suggest you just get back to the eating pattern that has been successful for you in the past. Be sure to not under eat. Make plenty of healthy food available. Don't try to cut your calories too far. Get back on track and past the first couple weeks then make small changes after that (like limit calories a bit more). The key is to get past the craving stage. Once you get past your cravings stage your body will readjust. I'm on SB YES! But I get cravings and than I give in. I'm starting over again on EVERY Sun . Winter blues make it tough to stick to my plan. I get this panic feeling very often. glo > I'm on SB YES! But I get cravings and than I give in. > I'm starting over again on EVERY Sun. If cravings are your issue then you should try the Atkins plan. It's more effort because it has an entire half that isn't addressed by South Beach, but that half is about discovering the individual foods that trigger binges so you know to avoid them. I mean the entire plan from the book, all 4 phases in sequence. I mean using the carb ladder in order. There's more work involved than SBD but it should also resolve the cause of your binges. I did cut back too far ! I get carried away and than I binge again. Thanks for a great post!! glo > I did cut back too far ! I get carried away and than I binge again. > Thanks for a great post!! > > glo that's what I thought. :-) ya know, one thing that has worked for me is when I'm really struggling with getting back on track then I'll find the way of eating that works (for you, SB) but instead of trying to cut the calories back to a "weight loss" mode, I'll try to eat at maintenance level, but stick to on plan foods only. After a week or so, once the hard part of craving junk has passed, then I'll start cutting back on food. That is how I made it to week 3 this time. Those first 2 were really hard, as I did have my moments where I wanted junk. I also found at those times - to post here really helped. Yeah, so people commented I was being too obsessive. But here I'm at week 3 and I'm back into my groove. :) Good luck. You know you can do it! You've done it before. You just have to find your groove. >ya know, one thing that has worked for me is when I'm really struggling with >getting back on track then I'll find the way of eating that works (for you, >SB) but instead of trying to cut the calories back to a "weight loss" mode, >I'll try to eat at maintenance level, but stick to on plan foods only. >After a week or so, once the hard part of craving junk has passed, then I'll >start cutting back on food. This is what I'm planning to try if I fall off the wagon again - which I'm not showing signs of at the moment, but it has always happened at some point before so I need to consider it. I badly need to break free of my "all or nothing" thinking, and if I fall I'm going to try eating at maintenance level until I'm ready to carry on. It would be so much better than going from 1500 calories one day to 4000 or 5000 the next, and then having to start again with a lot of regained weight to lose. janice Quoting janice@london.uk (janice): [brev.] >I badly need to break free of my "all or nothing" thinking, In my experience, mastering the defeatist pull that "all or nothing" thinking can have was the single most important factor in my long-term success in losing and keeping the fat off. Tomorrow is always a new day; yet another chance to get back on track. > Quoting janice@london.uk (janice): > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thinking can have was the single most important factor in my long-term > success in losing and keeping the fat off. The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". There is nothing wrong with wanting to be perfect. Signature223/173.2/180 Quoting Ignoramus12418 <ignoramus12418@NOSPAM.12418.invalid>: >> Quoting janice@london.uk (janice): >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". There is >nothing wrong with wanting to be perfect. Well, there certainly is *that*, and I don't disagree that there are many folks out there that just don't "get it" and/or refuse to put in a real effort. What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total failures at dieting just because they screw up a meal or two. This can be a fairly prevalent and pernicious attitude among binge eaters, btw. And my message was that there is hope; it is possible to work through those issues, evolve, and make better choices. > Quoting Ignoramus12418 <ignoramus12418@NOSPAM.12418.invalid>: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > many folks out there that just don't "get it" and/or refuse to put in > a real effort. Or look for excuses. > What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some > out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total > failures at dieting just because they screw up a meal or two. Yes. Even if a person was a total failure in dieting (according to some objective criteria), it does not mean that he or she should give up everything and stop trying. Being a failure may be temporary, the way people stop being failures is through hard work. > This can be a fairly prevalent and pernicious attitude among binge > eaters, btw. > > And my message was that there is hope; it is possible to work through > those issues, evolve, and make better choices. > Yes. I think that we mainly agree. The rational approach is to assess everything that is known, and adopt some optimal course of action and work on it despite distractions. It works fairly well. Signature223/173.2/180 >What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some >out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total >failures at dieting just because they screw up a meal or two. > >This can be a fairly prevalent and pernicious attitude among binge >eaters, btw. Yes, that is something that binge eaters understand very well, but maybe difficult for others to comprehend. I have many times fallen off the wagon after weeks of "perfection" and there's a very high chance that once this happens it can lead to weeks or even months of binge eating and the regain of all, or more, of the weight I've lost. For some of us, wanting to be perfect is definitely not the way to go. janice > >What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some > >out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > janice I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much harder. I know I certainly don't eat perfectly at all times but I don't beat myself up over it and just start anew. Many times when I travel or attend special events I know I won't be sticking to the regular woe. I just plan for them and adjust afterward. I just can't imagine going through life not being able to occasionally have those foods I love but don't eat on a regular basis. Beverly >I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much harder. >I know I certainly don't eat perfectly at all times but I don't beat myself [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >able to occasionally have those foods I love but don't eat on a regular >basis. Well, this is why I don't "ban" anything from my WOE, although of course I can't afford to eat calorie dense foods in quantity and try to "spend" my calories more wisely on foods with a higher satiety value. I also think there's a million miles of difference between a cheat and a planned refeed. The food eaten could even be exactly the same, but for me a "cheat" is something you do against your will, that sort of sneaks up on you and makes you feel out of control. A "refeed" can be carefully planned in advance and I can get back to my WOE much more easily afterwards. Of course it's all in the mind, like so much to do with food issues. janice >>I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much >>harder. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>able to occasionally have those foods I love but don't eat on a regular >>basis. I completely agree with you there, mental health is just as important as physical health & you don't want to turn into a neurotic obsessed with calories & nutritional values. You have better chances of sticking to your WOE if it allows you to eat what you like once in a while, otherwise there's the tendency to say 'to hell with everything' & just have a binge... > Well, this is why I don't "ban" anything from my WOE, although of > course I can't afford to eat calorie dense foods in quantity and try [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > easily afterwards. Of course it's all in the mind, like so much to do > with food issues. I posted about refeeds & got mixed replies as expected but I must say that Monday's refeed worked like a charm, I feel much better & find it much easier to stick to plan after it. My digestive system got a little overloaded causing some discomfort 24-36 hrs later but all is fine now. 1lb weight gain on Tuesday, down 2lbs today, 1lb net loss after a 2650 cal 'splurge' on Monday can't be bad. Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only 'sensible' foods. It was educational to see how the cals pile up with 'off-plan' foods. > >>I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much > >>harder. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > 'sensible' foods. It was educational to see how the cals pile up with > 'off-plan' foods. Glad to see this worked for you. We'll never be able to have everyone agree on this issue and I feel that if it works for you then do it. There are many in the group who don't stick to a strict diet and have been very successful doing the occasional refeed, splurge or whatever name we choose to call it. I've been at or near maintenance weight for years, except for the year I quit smoking, and I've always had those occasions where I ate over my daily calorie limit. Beverly > > >>I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much > > >>harder. I am one of the above but manage now to look as lapses as an opportunity for purposeful rededication to a goal and good strategies in reaching it rather than failure. Failure comes when you stop trying and then beat up on yourself. If you can truly abandon the unreached goal, that is another story, but I doubt I will ever stop wanting to protect my weight loss. of five years ago. SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman >Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, >normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only >'sensible' foods. It was educational to see how the cals pile up with >'off-plan' foods. I think you have a few things in common with me. I normally stop counting anything when I fall off the wagon. After all, if one is going to binge it's not the time you tend to get out the scale or the measuring jug! Just for interest, I did once track some binge days and ISTR they came to somewhere between 4000 and 5000, or even a bit more on a high fat day. >>Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, >>normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > going to binge it's not the time you tend to get out the scale or the > measuring jug! Definitely not! In fact, I when I know I'm eating too much I tend to stay away from the scale, I know it's a bad thing but I just don't want to see what it has to say to me. > Just for interest, I did once track some binge days > and ISTR they came to somewhere between 4000 and 5000, or even a bit > more on a high fat day. Very interesting, I don't know if I could get that far, I think when I got to around 3000 I'd just get up & run away! Maybe I should start posting as 'Denial Queen' :-) >> I think you have a few things in common with me. I normally stop >> counting anything when I fall off the wagon. After all, if one is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >away from the scale, I know it's a bad thing but I just don't want to see >what it has to say to me. I actually meant the food scale, but I agree with you anyway. janice >Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, >normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only >'sensible' foods. It was educational to see how the cals pile up with >'off-plan' foods. How do you mean "normally"? Maybe this has been your norm, but I always log everything I eat -- my many splurge meals as well as my many sensible days. Seems normal to me. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004 >>Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, >>normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > always log everything I eat -- my many splurge meals as well as my > many sensible days. Seems normal to me. I've noticed you do & you seem extremely disciplined. What I meant is keeping a log during 'diet' periods, that includes, of course, 'splurge meals' during those periods - you can't leave days without data 'coz it would throw the database completely off course & make statistical data meaningless. But I haven't been logging everything I eat all the time, like last year when I gained 10 lbs between holidays & things... I used to use the online version of FitDay years ago but it was rather a slow process, it's a lot easier now with the PC version. I don't know about you but I find logging what you eat provides a sense of 'accountability' even if it's only to yourself & your software, somehow it seems to stop me from drifting too far off course... >>>Monday was also the first time I logged what I ate whilst overeating, >>>normally you only log when you're on a diet so your logs tend to have only [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >'accountability' even if it's only to yourself & your software, somehow it >seems to stop me from drifting too far off course... Absolutely! Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004 >>>I think people who demand perfection at all times take failure much >>>harder. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > there's the tendency to say 'to hell with everything' & just have a > binge... That's been my philosophy. What good is it to be a "normal" weight if you're not enjoying you're consumed by fear of regaining it or even worse, using drastic measures to maintain it? That doesn't mean one shouldn't work to lose weight and get to a reasonable goal, or work to maintain it. Weight loss doesn't cure personality disorders. Signaturethe volleyballchick >> >What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some >> >out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > able to occasionally have those foods I love but don't eat on a regular > basis. That point was mentioned in the Thin for Life book - that the author found that people who never made "mistakes" on their diets were the most likely to gain weight back when they did deviate. Making mistakes helps you learn how to deal with failure. It doesn't mean that you just go nuts and eat what you want all the time and say "oh darn I made another mistake - pass the porkchops." It's a lesson I have to teach my students regularly since they're so used to being praised for simply producing carbon dioxide these days. I have some kids that just can't function when they make typing errors in their keyboarding lessons and some will be so frustrated by 1 or 2 simple errors that they'll simply give up. People are like that with diets too. My philosophy in teaching and in life is that you can learn how to accept failure gracefully and still accomplish your goals. Signaturethe volleyballchick email goes to vbchick >It's a lesson I have to teach my students regularly since they're so used to >being praised for simply producing carbon dioxide these days. I have some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >philosophy in teaching and in life is that you can learn how to accept >failure gracefully and still accomplish your goals. I have seen this with my nephew and homework. Once it is late, you can't get full credit. So, why even bother? And if he doesn't understand something, he's going to fail anyway, so why try? He was never taught how to get back up and keep trying, so he only does it if we force him. -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>It's a lesson I have to teach my students regularly since they're so used >>to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > He was never taught how to get back up and keep trying, so he only > does it if we force him. It's the prevailing thought pattern in our middle school. There are a lot of kids that are convinced they can't succeed so they've already given up. I do what I can to show them that mistakes are part of life and that's why pencils come with erasers. I have very high standards in my class but one thing I don't do much is put time limits on the work. Our middle school has a policy for late work that I basically ignore. I have a due date and a drop dead date. This is mostly because many of my students really don't communicate well (cultural thing) and have an extremely difficult time seeking help since they're expected to be very self-sufficient at home. I realize that in the real world we have to adhere to deadlines, but 12 year olds should be cut a little slack in that department since it's more important to me that they're happy with the quality of their work and develop the skills I'm attempting to teach. It's more work for me because I'm usually up late the night before grades are due in correcting last minute assignments, but it's worth it. Signaturethe volleyballchick >>What I was specifically referring to, though, is that there are some >>out there that give up on themselves and decide that they are total [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > For some of us, wanting to be perfect is definitely not the way to go. Nope, it isn't. Perfection is not attainable thus you are setting yourself up for failure. It is an unrealistic expectation and definitely not rational. If you have an eating disorder striving for perfection is one of the worst things you can do for yourself. Part of it has to do with *how* you deal with failure. Through my observations and personal experience I've noticed a lot about how people deal with their mistakes. A colleague and I did a study years ago on the effects of a program we developed to help kids learn how to fail and it was pretty interesting. People who cannot deal with failure tend to do one of two things in general: -internalizing the mistake and taking it out on themselves - these people will do things to "punish" themselves for a real or perceived mistake and will always blame themselves regardless of the cause. -externalizing the mistake and taking it out on others - these people cannot accept that they are capable of failure and will deny that they have done anything wrong in spite of reality - they'll deflect attention away from themselves with ad hominem arguments or go so far as to attack the person who points out the mistake As usual, sex plays a role - guess which one is more female and which is more male? So anyway, there are people out there who binge as a form of self punishment. More than you might realize unless you've spent time with people who have eating disorders. The all or nothing approach is very common and a difficult cycle to break but it includes breaking the "all" in addition to the "nothing." Signaturethe volleyballchick >So anyway, there are people out there who binge as a form of self >punishment. More than you might realize unless you've spent time with >people who have eating disorders. The all or nothing approach is very >common and a difficult cycle to break but it includes breaking the "all" in >addition to the "nothing." Very well put - I'm trying to work on remembering this and putting it into practice. I tend to set high standards for myself in general. I find failure hard to take in other areas like work, and I beat myself up a lot when it happens, but after all I don't then go into the office and tear up all the other bits of work I'm doing and quit the job. janice >>So anyway, there are people out there who binge as a form of self >>punishment. More than you might realize unless you've spent time with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > it happens, but after all I don't then go into the office and tear up > all the other bits of work I'm doing and quit the job. No, but a lot of times a binge is a result of failure anywhere in life, not just with the diet. I have students who do just as you describe though, feel as though they're failing and then just tear up the assignment and storm off. Signaturethe volleyballchick I'm wondering how many here are on the SB diet? I'm really doing well with this:) I agree with Jay Jay as she spoke about my losing in a slower way like 1/2 lb a week and ya know, it is a very realistic way to look at weight loss! I was feeling frustrated and I WANTED to lose the last (one size) NOW! I really like the SB and I'm just trying to not sink but to swim :) and it is SLOWLY happening with SB. I get fewer binges and I love the evening dessert:) (Ricotta cheese which tastes like cheese cake ) I can go for a few weeks to a few days without binges. So many posts in this thread have been good and I'm TRYING to get beyond the ALL OR NOTHING way! I'm better & better with this! I even LIKE to look in my full length mirror now. I had this great compliment at work yesterday!! A lady was telling me about health eating ( I was handing out new bistro salads ) and she told me that she taught arobics at the Y for years & she could see that my physic showed how I was IN SHAPE! WOW! I was struck by this! :) I was just speechless! So I told her how I have ms and do abot nothing in exercise now. She told me about the great swimming programs & I WOULD LOVE this! Soon I'll look into this! So that is my bragging for the day! heeheee Thanks again for great posts here! GOOD ONES !! TGIF glo > I'm wondering how many here are on the SB diet? I'm really doing well > with this:) I agree with Jay Jay as she spoke about my losing in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > binges and I love the evening dessert:) (Ricotta cheese which tastes > like cheese cake ) I've been on the SBD to varying degrees and I will definitely agree with you that once you get through the first few days you really do feel a lot better. I have had problems in phase 2 experimenting with different whole grains to add because some affect me differently than others and when I get into a bad one it takes a while to bounce back. I also have to keep it relatively low in fat or I get sick. If you mix the ricotta with an egg or egg beaters and splenda then bake in a water bath it comes out custard like and is great with cinnamon. Another interesting SBD recipe I tried this weekend was to take a 32 oz container of plain fat-free yogurt, mix with an 8-serving box of sf jello, microwave for 2 1/2 minutes. Pour it in a pie plate coated with cooking spray and refrigerate at least 3 hours (overnight worked better). Unmold it and you get 8 servings of a fruity panna cotta. If you're on phase 2 you can put fresh berries or fruit on top. Signaturethe volleyballchick Good post thank you, where you told about being on SBD . I'm tryig to keep away from carbs and it works pretty well for me. I'm trying riccotta cheese recipe that you shared!! I love the riccotta! I'm mostly just doing less carbs and ths works well for me. Thank again for sharing! glo > The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". In my opinion the *common* part of "all or nothing" is nothing. Taking an all or nothing approach is a recipe for failure. People are human and humans aren't perfect. > There is nothing wrong with wanting to be perfect. I agree to disagree on this point. Wanting to be perfect is a very common excuse for quitting. No one is perfect. There is a giant difference between "striving this year to be better than you were last year" (a recipe for personal excellence) and "wanting to be perfect" (an impossibility and therefore does not work). >> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and "wanting to be perfect" (an impossibility and therefore > does not work). That makes sense to me. Gary, what if I replaced my original statement ``There is nothing wrong with wanting to be perfect'' by ``There is nothing wrong with striving to be perfect''. Would you still disagree? Signature223/173.2/180 >>> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >wrong with wanting to be perfect'' by ``There is nothing wrong with >striving to be perfect''. Would you still disagree? I would replace it with: There is nothing wrong with trying to improve myself. Either of your statements implies that the goal is to be perfect, and that can never happen, so you would be guaranteed to fail. Also, some people have a goal of being a certain weight or shape that is physically impossible for their body. So, that goal can never be achieved, even if they kill themselves trying. I think it is better to find realistic goals. If you meet that goal, you can always set up a new realistic goal. -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >>> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". > >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > find realistic goals. If you meet that goal, you can always set up a > new realistic goal. Wise comments Meg. I fall victim to this impossible dream thing sometimes because I did acheive what I considered an ideal look at 135 pounds but it was unrealistic to maintain it. At the time I ran nearly two miles every day but aggravated something in my neck and had to stop runnning altogether. I simply couldn't stay at that ideal wight beyond the first year. Now it is a real battle to keep weight from creeping up in small but definite increments and this mirrors what I have read about recidivism. Still if a person is very determined and works hard it is realistically possible but far from simple to accomplish. One has to decide whether weight loss is going to be an over riding obsessional concern in their life. Promising it won't be is easier said than done. It's like not thinking about a purple elephant (or a flesh colored one :-) SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman >>>> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > There is nothing wrong with trying to improve myself. I cannot disagree with that! > Either of your statements implies that the goal is to be perfect, and > that can never happen, so you would be guaranteed to fail. Well, generally speaking, not reaching the goal does not mean (complete) failure. I am not a religious person myself, but most religions do tell us to strive to be perfect (in some moral respects and actions), while recognizing that we cannot actually become perfect. > Also, some people have a goal of being a certain weight or shape that > is physically impossible for their body. So, that goal can never be > achieved, even if they kill themselves trying. I think it is better to > find realistic goals. If you meet that goal, you can always set up a > new realistic goal. That's a very fair comment. Signature223/173.2/180 >> Either of your statements implies that the goal is to be perfect, and >> that can never happen, so you would be guaranteed to fail. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and actions), while recognizing that we cannot actually become >perfect. That is true, and I suppose "near" perfect might be okay. I think the main thing is chosing a goal that is possible rather than something that is impossible. It is very frustrating for me to see friends and relatives give up after not reaching their goals, but their goals weren't reasonable. Remember last year when there was a nationwide deal with Bally's? Three free months if you weighed in on a certain date? Well, my mom went daily for 3 months. She is very heavy, probably about 300 lbs. She mostly swam and did one machine (I can't remember which). She was out there, moving, doing something. She seemed to feel better, and I was very impressed. But she only lost a few pounds. She was expecting the scale to move dramatically, and it didn't. At the end of the 3 months, she quit. In the past, she would start something too fast and then quit because it was too hard or she got hurt. Today, she asked me about rollerblading. She has poor balance walking, feet problems, and knee problems. She has trouble walking for exercise. No way I would encouarge to get on skates where she could fall down and shatter her other ankle or break a hip. Her idea was just way too unrealistic. She would be much better off walking or biking. -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>> Either of your statements implies that the goal is to be perfect, and >>> that can never happen, so you would be guaranteed to fail. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > main thing is chosing a goal that is possible rather than something > that is impossible. I think that what you say is rather prudent. On the other hand, many great accomplishments were made my people who set out to do the impossible. For myself, with respect to weight, I try to follow your approach and choose possible goals. > It is very frustrating for me to see friends and relatives give up > after not reaching their goals, but their goals weren't reasonable. I would feel the same thing about them. Are there any of them who would adjust their goals? > Remember last year when there was a nationwide deal with Bally's? > Three free months if you weighed in on a certain date? Well, my mom [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > expecting the scale to move dramatically, and it didn't. At the end > of the 3 months, she quit. Happens quite a bit. > In the past, she would start something too fast and then quit > because it was too hard or she got hurt. Today, she asked me about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > other ankle or break a hip. Her idea was just way too > unrealistic. She would be much better off walking or biking. It is very sad to see loved ones who, at the moment, impervious to reason. I had some unfortunate experiences in that respect. Signature223/173.2/180 >> That is true, and I suppose "near" perfect might be okay. I think the >> main thing is chosing a goal that is possible rather than something [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >great accomplishments were made my people who set out to do the >impossible. I agree with the idea in other areas, such as technology, medicine, etc. But we all know we can't make our body frame smaller, so there is only so much we can lose and still be healthy. So, we shouldn't set a goal for lower than that. And we cannot control how much weight we lose in a week, so that shouldn't be the goal. A basic goal weight over time is good, but the shorter one week (or one day) goals are useless. we see discussions all the time about weight going up 2 pounds or not losing this week, and somebody is ready to quit. We can control hormones, water weight, etc. We don't always realize when we took in more salt. And we can't control when we get sick. If my diet plan was as strict as some people, I would have to condemn myself for failing, yet I can't help getting sick. I was in bed hurting all over. No way I was going to get out of bed and move. -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Leafing through alt.support.diet, I read a message from friesian@zoocrewphoto.com of 10 Mar 2005: > But we all know we can't make our body frame smaller, so there is only > so much we can lose and still be healthy. So, we shouldn't set a goal > for lower than that. I agree with this. However, some people don't really know what their body frame is. They think they know, but they probably never had a bodyfat measurement. I always thought 180 lbs was a very healthy weight for me, since I thought of myself as "big boned." After all that's what I weighed my senior year in high school. As I lost weight and hit my 180 lb goal, I just kept on losing. Little did I know, I had some more fat to lose. Now at 162 lbs I can say that my image of my frame has somewhat changed. Phil M. 245/162/165 >Leafing through alt.support.diet, I read a message from >friesian@zoocrewphoto.com of 10 Mar 2005: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >just kept on losing. Little did I know, I had some more fat to lose. Now at >162 lbs I can say that my image of my frame has somewhat changed. That makes sense. But that's more of the idea of making a goal and reassessing it when you reach that goal, rather than starting with one that is impossible. Your goal of 180 was a reasonable goal when you made it, and attainable. Once you reached it, you realized that it wasn't ideal and worked on a new goal. That was healthy. If you had planned an original goal of 130, then that would be unrealistic and unhealthy. -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >wrong with wanting to be perfect'' by ``There is nothing wrong with >striving to be perfect''. Would you still disagree? Personally, my goal is just to strive to be better. I don't worry about perfection. I think it's an elusive concept to really define -- as perfection in one area can come at cost to another -- so "better" works for me. (I used to have an employee who felt everything he did had to be perfect. The trouble was, he never finished anything.) Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004 >> The bad part of the "all or nothing" approach is "or nothing". > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and "wanting to be perfect" (an impossibility and therefore > does not work). I agree with you Doug on these points. Continuous improvement is how I think of it. I also like the old standby "progress not perfection." Signaturethe volleyballchick > I'm STILL trying to stop this insane eating patern. I've not gone a sizr > larger but clothingis fitting more snug. How does one get back to the > BETTER eating? Remember, I can do almost no exercise. The battle has > become harder. > > glo I don't know about you but I often find myself slipping back into old habits that cause weight gain. Things such as too much snacking between meals, larger portions, not keeping properly hydrated, too many carbs and not enough vegetables and fruits, etc. When this happens I make a conscious effort to start journaling again. Just putting it down on paper or using Fitday seems to get the eating under control again. I also make it a point to keep some low calorie foods available for snacking. Good luck on getting back on track. Beverly > > I'm STILL trying to stop this insane eating patern. I've not gone a sizr > > larger but clothingis fitting more snug. How does one get back to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Fitday seems to get the eating under control again. I also make it a point > to keep some low calorie foods available for snacking. There are some things that have worked for me. However, I'm hesitant to say that they will work for all or even some. First, like you said, journaling is useful. I log all calories consumed and burned by using DietPower. I try to keep in mind that daily weight fluctuations are often caused by other things other than poor eating. Second, maybe it's just me, but exercise seems to keep everyting in line (physically and mentally). If I'm exercising, I am more inclined to also eat properly. Phil M. 245/162/165 maintained since March 2004 GREAT posts and I'm takng EVERYONE of them in a very serious way! I'm into day 2 of the SB and doing well SO FAR:) I have these cravings that are killing me! and Doug has spoke about Atkins as a real good way to rid myself of this. I once tried Atkins and failed but this was panic! I may be READY to go back to Atkins? I'm reding my new Atkins books now. One is Atkins For Life. The other is New Atkins. I started today with Cool Whip as it settled these terrible cravings a little bit. Stupid thing to do but I gave in anyways. I am trying to get this WOE started AGAIN:) Thanks AGAIN EVERYONE!!! glo > I have these cravings that are killing me! and > Doug has spoke about Atkins as a real good way to > rid myself of this. Atkins handles two distinctly different sources of cravings. 1) Carb cravings created by insulin surges and the hormone cascade of low blood sugar. For this aspect the carb count and glycemic load of a food are important. Below a certain total carb intake (CCLM the maximum during Maintenance) your insulin levels stay low and you're below the radar screen of carb-based cravings. Below a certain glycemic load any foods will be more filling as the get carbier but above a certain glycemic load any foods will trigger more hunger as they get carbier. Part of the idea of Induction is to get far below the intake of carbs that trigger cravings to see those cravings go away, and also to only eat foods with very low glycemic load to not trigger cravings with small-but-intense doses of carb. Then the plan moves up gradually backing off when cravings are triggered. Be cautioned that getting through Induction is a bit of a boot camp experience. 1) Addictive pattern cravings caused by food intolerances, including previously unknown ones. When they finish Induction lots of folks report feeling in control of their food for the first time. Some of this may be because unknown addictive foods were removed. Some people don't have foods they are addicted to. Some people claim that but actually do have foods that give them cravings but they have eaten the food in question their entire lives so they feel normal when eating it. Removing the addictive food removes the addiction symptoms (with a time of withdrawal that makes Induction hard), but it can be hard to tell exactly what improved just that folks feel better. Then Atkins has a system of ading back suspect foods one at a time and noting your reaction. A binge, a craving, a rash, a scratchy throat, a return to indigestion, any could make a food a suspect. Often it takes several tries of a suspect food to be sure either way. The weekly cycle of Atkins allows you to try about 2 per week systematically. > I once tried Atkins and failed but this was panic! Maybe you encountered withdrawals and freaked out at this positive result (but would you freak out at tobacco withdrawal?). Maybe you stayed on Induction because you searched for permission and then ignored the long list of qualifications. Maybe you didn't follow the systematic two-half 4-phase process as it is far from obvious why such a system would be in place so you igonred what you didn't understand. > I may be READY to go back to Atkins? Only you can judge that. > I started today with Cool Whip Of course Cool Whip is forbidden during Induction. It has added sugar. Induction is simple "If it is not on the list it does not pass your lips". > as it settled these terrible cravings a > little bit. Stupid thing to do but I gave in anyways. It didn't "settle" the cravings. It made them last longer in exachange for making them less intense in the next couple of hours. Bad trade-off for getting through to the place where there are no cravings. Same as eating bars - Some find they make the cravings less intense in the next couple of hours but the price is the cravings lasting extra days. Bad trade. > I am trying to get this WOE started AGAIN:) Good. Treat Induction strictly and you will be amazed. Sure, it has stuff you don't believe like being high fat but just do the parts you don't believe and don't understnad and watch it work. Doug Freyburger schreef: > Good. Treat Induction strictly and you will be amazed. > Sure, it has stuff you don't believe like being high > fat but just do the parts you don't believe and don't > understnad and watch it work. But if you drink coffee, get off that *first*. I found induction hard, but I think a lot of that was due to caffeine withdrawal. I started drinking coffee again later, and recently quit again, and I had headaches again for around a week. :-( (I quit cold turkey again, because when I was sick for a few days, I couldn't stand the stuff, so I thought I was almost there anyway - but that turned out not to be the case.) So I think it's better to get off coffee first, gradually, so you don't get any withdrawal symptoms; and *then* do induction. Berna (101.5/75.7/~68 kg) Signature( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / . . \ berna.bleeker@gmail.com \ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl > Doug Freyburger schreef: > > Good. Treat Induction strictly and you will be amazed. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Berna (101.5/75.7/~68 kg) Berna, I dilute my coffee with half water and only have one cup of that a day. It satisfies strong cravings for coffee, gives me a lift and doesn't seem to trigger anything major. When it comes to cold turkey. I can't do that without mayo :-0 SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman Carol Frilegh schreef: >>I think it's better to get off coffee first, gradually, so you >>don't get any withdrawal symptoms; and *then* do induction. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > seem to trigger anything major. When it comes to cold turkey. I can't > do that without mayo :-0 Coffee diluted with water?! Yuck! But I'm definitely off the stuff now, and planning to stay that way. I've found I *can* drink a cup of coffee or some cola sometimes, but I'll make sure to leave at least a couple of days between occurrences, so I won't get re-addicted. Berna (101.5/75.3/~68 kg) PS: I like mustard on turkey. ;-) Signature( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / . . \ berna.bleeker@gmail.com \ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl > Coffee diluted with water?! Yuck! That's what i said at first. "Yuck." But I buy freshly roasted beans at Whole Foods and grind them just before brewing the coffee. I also add cinnamon and vanilla sometimes. I use saccharine instead of Sweet and Low. The coffee tastes just fine and no heartburn either. It also gives me a bit of a caffeine spike without an appetite trigger. However I can understand that oince you have broken the habit you may want to leave it alone entirely. SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman Carol Frilegh schreef: >>Coffee diluted with water?! Yuck! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > However I can understand that oince you have broken the habit you may > want to leave it alone entirely. Yes, that's it exactly. I want to avoid it getting to be a habit again. In the last 2 weeks, I've drunk coffee once (1 cup) and some cola once, and that's OK; but I know myself: if I let it hecome a habit again, then before I know it, I'll be drinking more & more coffee, until I'm an addict again. So I'll stick with different types of herb & decaf tea, which tastewise are really just as nice as coffee. And also, the less caffeine you use, the more it does for you when you *do* take it. ;-) Berna (101.5/75.3/~68 kg) Signature( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / . . \ berna.bleeker@gmail.com \ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl > That's what i said at first. "Yuck." But I buy freshly roasted beans > at Whole Foods and grind them just before brewing the coffee. I also > add cinnamon and vanilla sometimes. I use saccharine instead of Sweet > and Low. The coffee tastes just fine and no heartburn either. It also > gives me a bit of a caffeine spike without an appetite trigger. I've made my coffee with cinnamon for years. It's my favorite spice and I use it several times a day. I'm waiting for the *experts* to declare it hazardous to my wellbeing. SignatureWalking on . . . fresh snow tomorrow! Laurie in Maine 207/115 New Scale Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 SnugBear schreef: >> That's what i said at first. "Yuck." But I buy freshly roasted beans >>at Whole Foods and grind them just before brewing the coffee. I also [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I use it several times a day. I'm waiting for the *experts* to declare > it hazardous to my wellbeing. On the contrary! I have read that cinnamon helps reduce insulin resistance, which is a *good* thing, esp. when you're on a diet. So enjoy your cinnamon! (I love cinnamon too; my favorite (sugar-free, of course) chewing gum is cinnamon-flavored. It keeps its taste much longer than other gums, too.) Berna (101.5/75.7/~68 kg) Signature( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / . . \ berna.bleeker@gmail.com \ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl > SnugBear schreef: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Berna (101.5/75.7/~68 kg) Watch how you store your coffee! I had an itchy eye and stomach cramps all day yesterday and discovered i had stored my coffee in a warm light place in a glass container. This morning I took a whiff of the beans and immediately got the allergic reaction again. SignatureDiva ***** The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman >SnugBear schreef: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Berna (101.5/75.7/~68 kg) I too have read this, and besides I love it! I always add cinnamon to things where it seems like it would work. This includes sprinkling it liberally in my breakfast cereal. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004 > I too have read this, and besides I love it! I always add cinnamon to > things where it seems like it would work. This includes sprinkling it > liberally in my breakfast cereal. Absolutely! Yesterday for breakfast I had the warm heel of the freshly baked bread spread with natural chunky peanut butter, sliced half a pear on that and sprinkled with cinnamon. yummy What's cool is that I've begun experimenting with adding curry powder and cinnamon to things like pork or chicken with nice results. SignatureSnow everywhere!!! Laurie in Maine 207/115 New Scale Start: 2/02 Maintained since 2/03 Thanks Doug, I'm going to look into Atkins and I mean that I WILL read the book and I believe that Atkins MAY be what I need to do. Can I ask you one more thing? If you get hungry after evening meal what do you do? I'm kowing that this low blod sugar is what could benifit with Atkins as I have a problem with this.Thanks for the great post! OF course It looks good to me as I just ate a nice dinner of : fried haddock, green beans & sweet potatoe fries (about four fries) plus SF jello. I NEED to give this Atkins an honest try! It looks hard to understand but I'll study the books! I think that the high fat is where I get a problem. I mean that I'm not understanding this . I'm sure that the book will clue me in on this. And away I go to get out my Atkins books. I'm READY to read ! glo Wanted to add one more thng here, because it wouldn't be like a COMPLETELY new plan of WOE for me as I've been on SB but just not getting away from cravings. Plus I'm not losing enough either. I have a friend who surprised me BIG TIME! I almost didn't know her as she dropped about 90 lbs! She has been on Atkins for about a year and she looks great. She told me that she lost te bad cravings after years of no success with diets. But Atkins saved her. So I'm closer to startng Atkins. Not certin as yet. glo > Wanted to add one more thng here, because it wouldn't be like a > COMPLETELY new plan of WOE for me as I've been on SB but just not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > success with diets. But Atkins saved her. > So I'm closer to startng Atkins. Not certin as yet. Glo... Stop! Stop right there. Think about what you just said... "I'm not losing enough either"... Remember the goals, 1 to 2lbs a week only. Don't try for more. You have a medical condition that makes you struggle with physical activity. You have limitations you need to consider. Because of that, you will have to focus on your food intake. But you should know after all this time that if you try too hard to lose too fast, you will fail and binge when your body rebells and wants food. Don't forget this. Even if you lose at 1/2 lb per week, you are still losing. Don't compare yourself to your friend. They don't have your MS and your struggles. PLUS I can do little exercise! Nearly none at all . I have ms. again>>glo > PLUS I can do little exercise! Nearly none at all . I have ms. Are you familiar with this website: http://ms.about.com/cs/exercise/a/NewExercise.htm There are some strange pop-ups on that site. I hope it works OK on your WebTV. -- Matthew 185/177/160 To reply by e-mail, heat things up a bit. |
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