Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2005
Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job?
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Violet Green - 22 Mar 2005 05:11 GMT Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? Kate Lorenz, CareerBuilder.com
Obesity is one of the nation's greatest public health problems. According to the Center for Disease Control, an estimated 64 percent of U.S. adults are either overweight or obese. Studies show that overweight Americans suffer medical ailments more often than their slimmer peers from diabetes and hypertension to degenerative conditions like arthritis and many types of cancer.
And if that news isn't enough to get you on the treadmill, chew on this: Studies also show that out-of-shape Americans earn less on average than their co-workers do. Not only can being fit cost you less in medical bills and insurance, it can earn you more on the job.
Al Mientus, an executive recruiter for Pinnacle Partnership, says employers are "significantly less inclined" to hire the overweight. "It has to do with an employer's perception of work ethic," he says. "Employers believe that if you were hard-working and ambitious you would stay in shape."
The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) states that only one in 11 top male executives is overweight. The message is clear: Those who are fit enough to climb are more likely to make it to the top of the ladder.
Academic studies provide further proof that being in shape can boost your earning potential. A University of Michigan study reported that the total net worth of moderately to severely obese women is as much as 60 percent below average. And a Cornell study by John Cawley, professor of policy analysis, found that overweight Caucasian women earn 9 percent less than those who are slim.
So will being out of shape keep you from getting a job? Another Cawley study indicates for mid-level and entry level jobs, "...there is no effect of weight on the probability of employment or sector of occupation." But carrying some extra pounds can hurt your chances of climbing the ladder. "At the executive level, being overweight will hinder your chances of employment," Mientus says.
If building a better body will help you build a better career, what steps should you take for a job-boosting physique? Mientus tells his clients to approach body improvement like they approach improving their job skills. Here are his suggested solutions:
Define your goals: "Just like identifying that you have to improve certain work skills, you must also identify what health skills you need to improve," Mientus says. Whether it's altering your diet or getting more aerobic exercise, even building muscle mass, it's important to set goals for improvement.
Schedule healthy activities: "You have to make appointments for exercise and eating right, just like you schedule time in your day for meetings or training that will boost your skills or network," Mientus says.
Find a mentor: "The best mentor is one that is at your workplace with you someone who fits exercise into their work day," Mientus says. If you can't find someone at work who can lead by example, a spouse or friend is also a good choice. "Someone who will see you every day to help remind and guide you is very helpful," he adds.
Dress the part: Once you start to get in better shape, choose clothes that tastefully show off your new physique. "Fit people naturally look more confident, but good clothes that fit well accentuate that confident look," Mientus notes.
So on your next lunch break, grab a workout with the sales manager and then join her for an Evian and chicken quesadilla (hold the sour cream). Your thinner body, and fatter wallet, will thank you!
Gandalf Parker - 22 Mar 2005 06:00 GMT violet_green@msn.com (Violet Green) wrote in news:JN8AETJU38432.8410185185 @anonymous.poster:
> According > to the Center for Disease Control, an estimated 64 percent of U.S. adults > are either overweight or obese. Please trim soc.support.fat-acceptance from further dizum.com posts
Gandalf Parker
amdfroe@aol.com - 22 Mar 2005 06:23 GMT On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:00:47 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>violet_green@msn.com (Violet Green) wrote in news:JN8AETJU38432.8410185185 >@anonymous.poster: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Gandalf Parker Please go on a diet. Starving children should not have to accept your glottony.
avid - 22 Mar 2005 12:40 GMT plonk
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:00:47 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Gandalf > Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Please go on a diet. Starving children should not have to accept your glottony. Lady Veteran - 22 Mar 2005 18:40 GMT >On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:00:47 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living >Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Please go on a diet. Starving children should not have to accept >your glottony. Please remove yourself from life. Society has enough idiocy and more than their share of toilet brushes.
thank you.
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------ I rode a tank and held a General's rank When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil - ---------------------------------------- Today's mighty oak is yesterdays nut that held its ground.
- - -unknown - ---------------------------------------- Yes, I have let myself go...Now I'm Free!!!
- - - unknown - ----------------------------------------
Gandolf Parker - 22 Mar 2005 13:24 GMT On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> whined:
>violet_green@msn.com (Violet Green) wrote in news:JN8AETJU38432.8410185185 >@anonymous.poster: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Please trim soc.support.fat-acceptance from further dizum.com posts If you're going to accept your fat, then you need to accept the consequences. So quit whining, you fat tub of goo.
You're just pissed because you can't netKKKop the OP.
>Gandalf Parker Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? Kate Lorenz, CareerBuilder.com
Obesity is one of the nation's greatest public health problems. According to the Center for Disease Control, an estimated 64 percent of U.S. adults are either overweight or obese. Studies show that overweight Americans suffer medical ailments more often than their slimmer peers from diabetes and hypertension to degenerative conditions like arthritis and many types of cancer.
And if that news isn't enough to get you on the treadmill, chew on this: Studies also show that out-of-shape Americans earn less on average than their co-workers do. Not only can being fit cost you less in medical bills and insurance, it can earn you more on the job.
Al Mientus, an executive recruiter for Pinnacle Partnership, says employers are "significantly less inclined" to hire the overweight. "It has to do with an employer's perception of work ethic," he says. "Employers believe that if you were hard-working and ambitious you would stay in shape."
The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) states that only one in 11 top male executives is overweight. The message is clear: Those who are fit enough to climb are more likely to make it to the top of the ladder.
Academic studies provide further proof that being in shape can boost your earning potential. A University of Michigan study reported that the total net worth of moderately to severely obese women is as much as 60 percent below average. And a Cornell study by John Cawley, professor of policy analysis, found that overweight Caucasian women earn 9 percent less than those who are slim.
So will being out of shape keep you from getting a job? Another Cawley study indicates for mid-level and entry level jobs, "...there is no effect of weight on the probability of employment or sector of occupation." But carrying some extra pounds can hurt your chances of climbing the ladder. "At the executive level, being overweight will hinder your chances of employment," Mientus says.
If building a better body will help you build a better career, what steps should you take for a job-boosting physique? Mientus tells his clients to approach body improvement like they approach improving their job skills. Here are his suggested solutions:
Define your goals: "Just like identifying that you have to improve certain work skills, you must also identify what health skills you need to improve," Mientus says. Whether it's altering your diet or getting more aerobic exercise, even building muscle mass, it's important to set goals for improvement.
Schedule healthy activities: "You have to make appointments for exercise and eating right, just like you schedule time in your day for meetings or training that will boost your skills or network," Mientus says.
Find a mentor: "The best mentor is one that is at your workplace with you someone who fits exercise into their work day," Mientus says. If you can't find someone at work who can lead by example, a spouse or friend is also a good choice. "Someone who will see you every day to help remind and guide you is very helpful," he adds.
Dress the part: Once you start to get in better shape, choose clothes that tastefully show off your new physique. "Fit people naturally look more confident, but good clothes that fit well accentuate that confident look," Mientus notes.
So on your next lunch break, grab a workout with the sales manager and then join her for an Evian and chicken quesadilla (hold the sour cream). Your thinner body, and fatter wallet, will thank you!
Marengo - 23 Mar 2005 06:14 GMT If you're applying for a job as a Kentucky Derby jockey, yes.
 Signature Peter Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Mar 2005 12:41 GMT >If you're applying for a job as a Kentucky Derby jockey, yes. Then you go to Kentucky Fried Derby ... err ... Chicken.
Cubit - 22 Mar 2005 15:51 GMT Body size discrimination is rampant, and in the US there is no support for fighting it. Even airlines are allowed to discriminate against passengers due the airline's choice of seat sizes. They could easily have a few larger seats. If 10% of the population needs larger seats, it is not reasonable to allow the airlines to make all the seats tiny, and pretend they are being reasonable. Look at seats on busses. They are designed based on reality.
I tried applying for work when I was 320. The interview is always focused on how to get rid of you. It is implicit in the questions.
> Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? GaryG - 22 Mar 2005 19:25 GMT > Body size discrimination is rampant, and in the US there is no support for > fighting it. Even airlines are allowed to discriminate against passengers [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? FWIW, the same sort of discrimination exists for short men, homely women, bald men, smokers, etc.
Life's not always fair...fortunately, weight is an issue that is within the ability of most people to address (unlike height, for instance).
GG
Rod Speed - 22 Mar 2005 19:36 GMT > Body size discrimination is rampant, Like it or lump it, hippo.
> and in the US there is no support for fighting it. Not enough that stupid, stupid.
> Even airlines are allowed to discriminate against passengers due the > airline's choice of seat sizes. They could easily have a few larger seats. Even easier to make the hippos buy two seats, stupid.
> If 10% of the population needs larger seats, it is not reasonable to allow > the airlines to make all the seats tiny, and pretend they are being > reasonable. Obvious lie. The seats aint 'tiny'
> Look at seats on busses. They are designed based on reality. Another obvious lie.
> I tried applying for work when I was 320. The interview is always > focused on how to get rid of you. It is implicit in the questions. Their choice. You get to like it or lump it, hippo.
>> Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? Lucy - 23 Mar 2005 08:08 GMT > Body size discrimination is rampant, and in the US there is no support for > fighting it. Even airlines are allowed to discriminate against passengers > due the airline's choice of seat sizes. It is not discrimination when you have a choice. In the matter of weight you have more than one choice. Stop being a cow, or don't fly.
They could easily have a few larger
> seats. If 10% of the population needs larger seats, it is not reasonable > to > allow the airlines to make all the seats tiny, Um.. the seats are not tiny. I am of average weight and height and fit in the seats quite comfortably. Even on SWA.
and pretend they are being
> reasonable. Look at seats on busses. They are designed based on reality. > > I tried applying for work when I was 320. The interview is always focused > on how to get rid of you. It is implicit in the questions. And now he's getting paranoid.
lucy
Antipodean Bucket Farmer - 24 Mar 2005 08:38 GMT In article <1C80e.659$c76.426@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, me@nosuchwebsite.com says...
> > Body size discrimination is rampant, and in the US there is no support for > > fighting it. Even airlines are allowed to discriminate against passengers > > due the airline's choice of seat sizes. > > It is not discrimination when you have a choice. In the matter of weight you > have more than one choice. Stop being a cow, or don't fly. There IS a big choice listed in anti-discrimination laws. It is called, "Religion."
I know from personal experience that this IS a choice. Sure, I could have chosen to be a moronic sheep, and bowed to the religion of my parent.
But I chose NOT to, even as a kid. And, as an adult, I have chosen a very very different "religious" path/view.
Sure, I cannot chose my skin colour, but I DID chose my religious path. Interestingly, *both* of those are listed in the "don't discriminate" laundry lists in labour laws.
Of course, I also know to that, on a practical level, it is best to just Keep My Mouth Shut on ANY type of "hot-button" issues. And, yes, that would include allegedly "protected" issues in labour laws.
> >They could easily have a few larger > > seats. If 10% of the population needs larger seats, it is not reasonable > > to allow the airlines to make all the seats tiny, > > Um.. the seats are not tiny. I am of average weight and height and fit in > the seats quite comfortably. Even on SWA. My height/weight proportion is also my own choice. My doctor gave me a "heads-up," and we discussed how I would accept responsibility, and how I would fix the problem. And, lo and behold... I got off my lazy arse and exercised down to her specification (over a 2-yr period.)
Note: That was a DOCTOR's spec, which had nothing to do with any fashion magazine stereotype. In fact, Doc said that I was probably better off at a slightly higher weight than I was years ago.
OTOH, I could have CHOSEN to keep sitting around, shovelling junk down my mouth, and blowing up (as I was already doing.) And the consequences would have been down to ME. (e.g. a heart attack by age 50, etc, etc.)
> > I tried applying for work when I was 320. The interview is always focused > > on how to get rid of you. It is implicit in the questions. > > And now he's getting paranoid. Maybe, or maybe not. Is there any labour discrimination law regarding the interviewer's view of the applicant's personal discipline level?
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Lady Veteran - 22 Mar 2005 18:39 GMT >Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? Of course it can. Idiots are everywhere.
LV
- ------------------------------------------------------ I rode a tank and held a General's rank When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank
- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil - ---------------------------------------- Today's mighty oak is yesterdays nut that held its ground.
- - -unknown - ---------------------------------------- Yes, I have let myself go...Now I'm Free!!!
- - - unknown - ----------------------------------------
The Voice of Reason - 22 Mar 2005 20:14 GMT > Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? Well, let's face it, if you're interviewing people for a position, and a 450lb elephant walks in the door, smelling of faeces, you're not going to be all that enthusiastic about working with them. You want to be working with motivated, hard-working people, not lazy people with no self-respect.
Meghan Noecker - 23 Mar 2005 10:01 GMT >> Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? I work in a deli department in a grocery store. Several years ago, a very overweight guy in the customer service department wanted to be in the deli. He signed up several times when we had openings.
To be honest, none of us wanted him in the department. He was a really nice guy and a hard worker. But our walkways are small. When we pass each other, we have to turn sideways and sometimes suck it in. It would be really hard to have somebody who is over 300lbs easily.
They finally accepted him and scheduled him in the deli. He finished teh first shift complaining about his back hurting, and made it through only 2 hours of the second shift, before being transferred back to customer service. It was just too hard for him in his physical condition.
-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Antipodean Bucket Farmer - 24 Mar 2005 02:22 GMT > >> Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > back to customer service. It was just too hard for him in his physical > condition. No, it wasn't! It MUST have been YOUR bigotryyyyyy!
You big, bad, nasty, high-weight-propotionate Opressorrrrr!
That guy was Opressed! And abused! Poor him! Poor him!
Don't you feel so guilty? (You are mean, nasty, bad person if you don't.)
My gawd! Next, you will be suggesting that some job description listing of, "Must be able to lift 10kgs (22 lbs)" might just mean it! Oooooh, the nasty discimination!!!!!
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Ragnar - 23 Mar 2005 15:46 GMT > > Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? > > Well, let's face it, if you're interviewing people for a position, and > a 450lb elephant walks in the door, smelling of faeces, Yeah lets face it, 450lbs for an elephant? That's an awfully skinny elephant. Also what is this "smelling of faeces" stuff? Do you mean faces? Or do you just mean sh.t? In which case that's usually a European thing.
Ragnar
Meghan Noecker - 24 Mar 2005 08:54 GMT >Yeah lets face it, 450lbs for an elephant? That's an awfully skinny >elephant. Also what is this "smelling of faeces" stuff? Do you mean >faces? Or do you just mean sh.t? In which case that's usually a >European thing. I believe the person meant feces (sh.t). I haven't had any coworkers like that, but I have had a few customers. I remember one who came in every day, broke two of our riding scooters, and he reeked horribly. They had to clean the cart after he used it. And one of the courtesy clerks saw him once when his shirt didn't cover him all the way. He did have dried feces on his back. He was probably over 400lbs, could barely walk, and probably cannot bathe himself without help.
He was finally caught shoplifting and banned from the store.
-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Lucy - 24 Mar 2005 17:00 GMT >>Yeah lets face it, 450lbs for an elephant? That's an awfully skinny >>elephant. Also what is this "smelling of faeces" stuff? Do you mean >>faces? Or do you just mean sh.t? In which case that's usually a >>European thing. > > I believe the person meant feces (sh.t). <snip> (Ok, let's see if I can muddy the waters here.. hehe.) Actually, I believe he did mean 'faeces'. "ae" is the spelling for Greek, but 'Latinized' words, that in the original Greek, were written with the Greek diphthong Alpha Iota, which was, (and still is), pronounced as a long e sound. But.. since people don't come to newsgroups to learn.. this concludes today's lesson, boys and girls! lucy :)
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 22 Mar 2005 20:53 GMT I run a waste system for a big company with more than 90 sites spread over a very large geographic area. The average length of service among my unionized field guys is close to 30 years, so we have a lot of injuries and illnesses among them just as a consequence of not being spring chickens. Its a fairly physical job, and sometime they forget they aren't 22 any more. We've also had heart attacks and other scary stuff happening during work, plus ended up with staff away for extended time on sick or injury leave, making it hard on everyone to get work done - never mind the problems with costs and the safety record. The union rules say hire the most senior qualified candidate - which on a recent vacancy happened to be a very nice gentlemen who was in his late 50's and very, very much over weight. I can't tell you we didn't worry and agonize over the placement, largely related to his physical condition. This fellow is going to end up travelling a lot and working alone, doing physical work in out of the way locations, and he literally was in such poor shape that walking 50 feet was a challenge (purple faced, huffing and puffing etc.) I'm still having nightmares I'm going to get a call that he's keeled over somewhere.
I guess its one thing to say that by taking the job he's voluntarily electing to take the risk, but its not just him carrying the risk - as his employer, there are ethical as well as practical implications, financial, productivity etc. etc. Is it prejudice when there is a reasonable expectation there are raised odds for a bad outcome?
Mary G.
Polar Light - 22 Mar 2005 21:59 GMT >I run a waste system for a big company with more than 90 sites spread > over a very large geographic area. The average length of service among [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > financial, productivity etc. etc. Is it prejudice when there is a > reasonable expectation there are raised odds for a bad outcome? At first I thought you meant it in the more general sense, i.e. for a non-physical, office job where they may prefer to hire a young, good looking (even if completely useless) girl instead of a morbidly obese guy, which is something I've always considered as unfair as sex or race discrimination but which happens very often & doesn't seem to be well covered by anti-discrimination laws. However, in your case it sounds like the age & weight of the candidates can influence their ability to do their job.
I don't know where you live or what the laws are like but I think there is no such thing as 'voluntarily electing to take the risk', if this guy suffers an accident on the job he will most likely still be entitled to sue, claim compensation and such, I don't think his being overweight will make any difference, after all your company has presumably selected him amongst several candidates as the *most suitable*.
The bottom line is: no, it's not prejudice if the job requires the candidate to be in good shape, imagine a policeman who can't arrest criminals because he can't run. Having said this, do find out what the legal position of your company is.
Rachael Reynolds - 22 Mar 2005 23:43 GMT >>I run a waste system for a big company with more than 90 sites spread >> over a very large geographic area. The average length of service among [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > criminals because he can't run. Having said this, do find out what the > legal position of your company is. Interestingly, UK policeman are not legally required to undergo fitness tests once they've passed their initial one. Some police services do require them but it's not a national thing.
Rachael 176/118/119-124
Ignoramus14288 - 22 Mar 2005 22:27 GMT > I guess its one thing to say that by taking the job he's voluntarily > electing to take the risk, but its not just him carrying the risk - as > his employer, there are ethical as well as practical implications, > financial, productivity etc. etc. Is it prejudice when there is a > reasonable expectation there are raised odds for a bad outcome? We hope that economically rational beings, such as owners of businesses, would base their decisions on purely economic considerations. Such as, when hiring, given everything that the hiring manager knows about candidates (including their weight, height, race, national origin, etc), the manager would rationally evaluate the potential profit from hiring that person and would use his best judgment.
Ideally, in a perfectly competitive world, due to cost pressures, all actors would be forced to act rationally or be out of business.
The problem is that reality is not ideal.
First of all, not all businesses are operating in a competitive environment.
Second, hiring managers and business managers have prejudices that are not based on rational economic expectations, but yet think that they are making decisions based on rational expectations. If someone is convinced that black people are unprofitable, they would base their discrimination on the profit motive.
Third, if customers of businesses are prejudiced for uneconomic reasons, it may make sense for the business to discriminate against employees to please customers. For example, had it been legal, it could be profitable to open a few "whites only" restaurants, for racist patrons, with patrons served by white staff.
The result is that in real world, discrimination for all kinds of reasons -- due to weight, race, sex, religion etc -- is somewhat limited by economic forces, but is not going to be eliminated.
Our society finds some forms of discrimination to be unacceptable and legislates against them, EVEN IF such discrimination makes economic sense, real or imagined. Arguments from employers that hiring persons of a protected class is economically unjustified (example, "women cannot be hired because they have babies and leave work after expensive training), are not acceptable.
Whether that is a good thing or not, or whether this is even constitutional, is debatable.
You are right that some forms of discriminations are justifiable on economic grounds. But, our society finds some such forms to be so objectionable that it disallows them regardless of economic consequences of hiring persons of protected class.
While some forms of discrimination are not allowed, some are allowed. We are not allowing discrimination because of race, but we can allow discrimination due to weight. As far as I understand, political discrimination such as hiring Republicans only, is also permitted.
 Signature 223/173.3/180
lrodgers - 23 Mar 2005 01:04 GMT >Can Your Weight Keep You From Getting a Job? >Kate Lorenz, CareerBuilder.com soc.support.fat-acceptance,alt.support.diet,alt.support.diet.low-carb,misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living Lee Rodgers YMMV,FWIW,IDGAS Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org 24hr LC-CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
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