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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / March 2005My doctor just put me on Phentermine, what do you think of this?
I have been struggling with weight my entire life. I am so sick and tired of being this way. I am fatter than I ever dreamed I would be. I absolutely despise what I see in the mirror and often wonder why my husband stays with me. I have a lot of health issues. Diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, overactive thyroid, sleep apnea, enlarged heart, fatty liver and I am sure there are more but haven't been figured out yet. Oh yeah, did I mention depression? lol It seems the weight is what has caused every single one of my health issues. I am 36 years and female. I am currently on a ton of meds, but have recently been switched from fluoxetine to wellbutrin. I am on my 3rd month of this switch and I find that the wellbutrin doesn't help at all. I am so miserable and wasn't feeling this way on fluoxetine. My doc says that fluoxetine and phentermine can't be taken together. I finally get the doc to prescribe me this drug and I have to go off the one drug that makes my quality of life feel so much better. Yeah, I have lost 36 lbs in the last 2 months, wonderful. Wish I felt like I have lost weight, I still see the same ugly person in the mirror. Is it even possible to lose a lot of weight and keep it off without surgery? I have lost and gained sooo much weight in my life, over and over again and always gain it back plus some. Is there anyway I can lose weight this time and not gain it back? Am I destined to be bed-bound because I am just to fat to move around? sigh, hope someone has something good to say to me. I don't know much about phentermine, ok, I know nothing about it. What do you think of this drug? Numerous people lost weight and kept it off simply by eating less and exercising. That includes several people on this newsgroup, many of whom lost substantial weight (like half of their body weight). Even more people failed to lose weight or regained. So, you have a chance that you would lose weight and keep it off, but it is only a chance. With phentermine, you are also taking chances, as it may or may not work in the long run. Same applies to weight loss surgery, it offers better chances than dieting, but these are also only chances and it carries risks and morbidities. It is not at all obvious to me whether all your problem are caused by weight. Some possibly are, some possibly are not. You mentioned an overactive thyroid, that's interesting, as it is the opposite of underactive thyroid, which usually causes weight gain. But, I myself has a mild excess of thyroid hormones, and it did not prevent me from getting fat. Given the amount of your health problems, some of which could be helped by eating less, it only makes sense to devote a sustained, considerable effort towards improving yourself.  Signature223/173.3/180 >>Is it even possible to lose a lot of weight and keep it off without surgery?<< The odds are not good, but given the state of your health, it's worth trying. I had many of the physical problems you describe. I was going to have bariatic surgery, but I've managed to lose a massive amount of weight by eating less and exercising more. Will I keep the weight off? I don't know. But I'm having a good quality of life now. It's been worth the effort, without the dangers and side effects of surgery or drugs. >>What do you think of this drug?<< Years ago, my doc prescribed phen and then fen. I had disturbing side effects - diarrhea, heart palpitations, shortness of breath, and had to sotp each med after less than a month. I did not lose an ounce. As always, YMMV. Kasey 365/213/190 > I have been struggling with weight my entire life. I am so sick and > tired of being this way. I am fatter than I ever dreamed I would be. > I absolutely despise what I see in the mirror and often wonder why my > husband stays with me. You despise what you see in the mirror and 'wonder why' your husband stays with you. Quite bluntly, you will never lose weight in your present state of mind. Why? Because your head is not in the right space. You loath yourself instead of loving yourself. You use it as a crutch to blame everything in your life on. You cant find true longterm weightloss in a pill nor a surgical intervention. You need to change your life and your lifestyle. Like the mantra of this board you need to follow this over and over and over till it becomes your reality: 0. Fix your head. Find out why you chose to get fat (and stay fat) 1. Eat less. 2. Exercise more. 3. Repeat. 4. Forever. Forget the wellbutrin, weightloss pills and searching for the unatainable 'out there'magic bullet, only YOU can do this for YOURself! Exercise gives you feelgood endorphins, adopt it and change yourself. Visit Dr Phils website and read about the seven keys. You need to fix your head before you do anything. Stop kidding yourself and get serious! <<joni>> So you think a person should stop taking their anti-depressants and do it by themselves? Do you realize that some people have legit medical conditions that require these pills? If I stopped taking them, I would not have any will inside me to even consider exercising because I would be in bed sleeping and crying all the time. Nope, can't forget about the anti-depressants. Not yet, anyway. But the rest of what you say makes sense. I was feeling REALLY crappy yesterday but feel somewhat better today. One thing I did was had my husband take our scale from the bathroom and put it up high where I can't get to it. I find myself being obsessed with weighing myself. Often times I will weigh myself up to 10 times or even more a day! And if I see that I weigh more than the last time, I get so discouraged! And I even know that a person fluctuates in weight and that doesn't mean they are gaining anything, but it doesn't matter, I still get very discouraged and just down. And when I am down, I can't do anything about it because I am just too down. It is a horrible cycle to be in. I have been in a very self destructive state of mind for many years and throughout the last 2 years I have slowly been pulling myself out of it. I still have a long way to go and I still get really down on myself. But, I feel that if I stay with it, I can do it. Sometimes I just need to be reassured, I guess. Ask others that have been where I am. I am glad I came to google groups because I have found a lot of information and believe that it is directly related to why I feel so much more hopeful today. Thank you Sherry > So you think a person should stop taking their anti-depressants and do > it by themselves? Do you realize that some people have legit medical > conditions that require these pills? If I stopped taking them, I would > not have any will inside me to even consider exercising because I would > be in bed sleeping and crying all the time. Nope, can't forget about > the anti-depressants. Not yet, anyway. Honestly I wouldn't worry the least about what one person on the Internet or even more than one person says when it comes to your prescriptions. You have to realize that on Usenet like everywhere else opinions are just like a.sholes - everyone has one. Amazingly enough some people think they're so incredibly smart that they can tell you how to fix your whole life based on only a few words typed into a computer. Depression and anxiety disorders are illnesses and may or may not be exacerbated by specific foods. Some dietary fanatics claim their WOE will cure everything under the sun but usually have only a small base (themselves) to prove it. A healthy diet will help you feel better physically and usually mentally and exercise is definitely a mood lifter, but there are definitely mood disorders that require medication. If it's working for you then do what you need to do. You might find over time with a consistent exercise plan and eating in a healthy manner that you will require less medication or none. OTOH there are certainly thin and physically fit people on antidepressants and other medications. > But the rest of what you say makes sense. I was feeling REALLY crappy > yesterday but feel somewhat better today. One thing I did was had my [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > information and believe that it is directly related to why I feel so > much more hopeful today. Based on what you've already posted it looks like you have some serious work ahead of you. You were given some good advice in that you really do need to fix your head before, during, and even after weight loss. If not, you're doomed to repeat the cycle of loss and regain forever. It's not easy and not always fun but it really is more worthwhile in the long run. You're taking some steps now and recognizing trouble spots. Are you getting any kind of counseling to go with the meds? It might help if you get the right counselor. Signaturethe volleyballchick > Depression and anxiety disorders are illnesses and may or may not be > exacerbated by specific foods. Some dietary fanatics claim their WOE will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but there are definitely mood disorders that require medication. If it's > working for you then do what you need to do. This is so true, eating 'healthy' foods & even living a 'healthy' lifestyle doesn't guarantee good health, there are many disfunctions & diseases that are not related to weight, diet or exercise. Eating 'better', losing weight & going to the gym doesn't fix everything. Mood disorders are more likely to be the CAUSE rather than the effect of obesity & unhealthy eating. Many morbidly obese people are happily munching away at McD's without a care in the world whilst many skinny people take a cocktail of anti-depresants & tranquilizers with every healthy meal. > You might find over time with a consistent exercise plan and eating in a > healthy manner that you will require less medication or none. OTOH there > are certainly thin and physically fit people on antidepressants and other > medications. Some disorders are more likely to go away just by losing weight than others, like high BP, high cholesterol levels, tiredness & pain caused by excess weight, etc. As for depression, it all depends on whether a person is depressed as a result of his/her weight, the cause may well be totally different. > Based on what you've already posted it looks like you have some serious > work ahead of you. You were given some good advice in that you really do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > getting any kind of counseling to go with the meds? It might help if you > get the right counselor. Yes, this is the only way to find out what's really bothering you, if it wasn't all about your weight then getting thinner won't be enough. i, you MUST be a therapist? :) I just love reading your posts:) here. GOOD posts. glo > i, you MUST be a therapist? :) I just love reading your posts:) here. > GOOD posts. Thank you Gloria, for such a sweet compliment. Signature223/173.3/180 >>It seems the weight is what has caused every single one of my health issues.<< As someone who was supermorbidly obese less than two years ago, I understand the inclination to blame all of one's problems, health or otherwise, on one's excess weight. But losing weight won't solve all, or even most, of some people's problems. >>Sometimes I just need to be reassured, I guess.<< As do we all. So please be reassured that you can feel better, and you can lose weight. I hope you'll keep posting about your progress. Kasey 365/213/190 OMG Kasey! How did you lose all that weight? Was it surgery or just changing your diet? Wow, that is amazing! I have NO idea why I am over weight, other than I have obviously not been eating and exercising the way I should be. I am not sure if I am over weight because of my depression or depressed because I am over weight. I tend to think my depression causes the weight gain. I have lost a significant amount of weight before and felt like a million bucks with little to no depression at all! But then something major happened in my life and I ended up going backwards and woke up a few years later and wa-la, here I am! Thank you for posting and please tell me if you lose the weight with diet alone? Sherry I took phentermine for a while...be careful, it's the equavalent of speed. Highly addictive! > 0. Fix your head. Find out why you chose to get fat (and stay fat) > Forget the wellbutrin, It's possible these two are conflicting advice. No drug will help you in the long term. It's about you making the decision to get serious and to keep making that decision every day. >hope someone has something good to say to me. It's always darkest just before dawn. You've said some pretty negative things about yourself. Maybe you've hit psychological bottom with this post and can find the will to turn it around from here :) > It's always darkest just before dawn. I realize that you wanted to use this phrase as a metaphor, but it is not, in fact, true. It is darkest in the middle of the night. Signature223/173.3/180 > No drug will help you in the long term. It's about you making the decision > to get serious and to keep making that decision every day. hi, BCJ If the wellbutrin is for chronic depression, it may very well be a must. Chronic depression, speaking from personal experience, can be very hazardous to your mental, emotional, and physical well being. OTOH, taking anti-dpressants for their appetite suppression, is not the appropriate method. The problems will still be there, when the medication is gone. Fix the base problem, not mask the symptoms, so to speak. Donna K. 398.8/281.8/275 (next short term goal) NWOE began Jan 2003 LC since May 2003 LC and CR since Jan 2005 >> No drug will help you in the long term. It's about you making the > decision [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > must. Chronic depression, speaking from personal experience, can be > very hazardous to your mental, emotional, and physical well being. You are absolutely correct. No one would tell an epileptic that their Tegretol won't help in the long term or an asthmatic to just stop using Albuterol and find another way to deal with the problem. It's just a serious misunderstanding about the nature of illnesses like chronic depression or other mental illnesses. Signaturethe volleyballchick > You are absolutely correct. No one would tell an epileptic that their > Tegretol won't help in the long term or an asthmatic to just stop using > Albuterol and find another way to deal with the problem. It's just a > serious misunderstanding about the nature of illnesses like chronic > depression or other mental illnesses. In my previous post I did not mean for her to drop everything merely on what I had to say, but maybe to reconsider why she is taking them or why she is seeking the answer to her problems in a pill form. I think much of the anxiety, depression, and such kinds of prescriptions are way overprescribed these days (pushed on people is more like it)when adopting a healthy lifestyle could do ten times more for them. But thats too hard, and taking pills can be an 'easier way out' for many I think. She is looking for an answer in pill form when she isnt doing anything for herself if you know what I mean. With all the pharmecuetical advertisements these days everyone starts to think they can find happiness in a pill and it just isnt so. Yes I know there are definate mental illnesses which are based on real chemical imbalances etc, but even if I was asthmatic or an epileptic I wouldnt want to just rely on prescriptions for my quality of life, I would look to alternative methods and what I could do for myself too which the OP isnt doing. Its like she has fallen in a hole and doesnt know how to get out. And the prescriptions just give her a shovel to dig herself in deeper. Its a no win situation unless she comes to grip with where her life is going - taking control is the only way to better herself. <<joni>> > In my previous post I did not mean for her to drop everything merely on > what I had to say, but maybe to reconsider why she is taking them or [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > deeper. Its a no win situation unless she comes to grip with where her > life is going - taking control is the only way to better herself. One of the implications of what you said is that it is worthwhile to critically assess whether the medications are working, whether they are appropriate for a specific situation and so on. A doctor's role is to suggest medications and describe what they do, it is up to us to evaluate the suggestion based on our system of values. For example, if a cancer patient is weighing whether to have chemotherapy, it is doctor's job to explain what it entails, and the patient's responsibility to decide whether he wants to exchange living longer for being more sick due to toxicity of chemotherapy. A doctor cannot make these tradeoffs without knowing what is it that the patient values. It is legitimate to decline chemotherapy and live less, but with better quality of life. This applies to medications as well. With mental medications, deciding becomes more complicated, as their side effects may include changing our system of values (and therefore they influence our decision process). Eating less and exercising may well have a very positive effect on the OP. It is not unusual to hear from people how their mood became better, or more stable, how they had more energy when slightly hungry etc. We do not know if it applies to the OP until she tries it earnestly. Signature223/173.3/180 Thank you. When I posted the OP I was asking about the appetite supressant my doc put me on, not the anti-depressant. Geez, I would never stop taking the anti-depressant so when Joni comes along and tells me to stop taking them, I am thinking she is an idiot that has no idea what she is talking about (and judging from her second post, I am positive she knows nothing of what she is talking about). I wanted to know about the opinion on the diet pills. I am very very leary of taking medications. It is important to me that they are safe, but in the same breath, I have to weigh out the difference between it being safe and what the pills can help me with. Anyway, yes, I know for sure that if I lose enough weight, I will feel much better. But, meanwhile, I need help. > In my previous post I did not mean for her to drop everything merely on > what I had to say, but maybe to reconsider why she is taking them or > why she is seeking the answer to her problems in a pill form. Hi Joni, Evaluation is a good thing. And no medicine will help if the person is not ready to be helped. Regardless of the mediciation or reason for it, if she isn't ready to "try and respond" to whatever kind of thearpy, it won't do any good. >I think > much of the anxiety, depression, and such kinds of prescriptions are > way overprescribed these days (pushed on people is more like it)when > adopting a healthy lifestyle could do ten times more for them. I agree with you, that perscriptions (of all kinds, for that matter) are over perscribed. But I read your previous statement (maybe too much of my own experiences into it :) ), as potentially "stop all meds and see where you are". I'm not saying that's what you said or meant to say. Personally, I struggled for 20+ years to buck it up and not take medication, because "I should be able to do this on my own". Well, maybe others could, but I had a totally miserable existance and I couldn't. It's a miracle that I survived. I just didn't want someone who needed help to not try and get it. > thats too hard, and taking pills can be an 'easier way out' for many I > think. It's hard with or without the pills. Really looking at yourself is hard and painfull. To really want to change something about yourself that you have blamed for all your troubles for x years is scary, then who/what can you blame when the going gets tough. Without knowing more about the person and condition than from the first post, I'd be afraid too read to much or too little into the OP's problems. > With all the > pharmecuetical advertisements these days everyone starts to think they > can find happiness in a pill and it just isnt so. You've got that right. Truth in advertising??? <sheesh> > Yes I know there are > definate mental illnesses which are based on real chemical imbalances [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > get out. And the prescriptions just give her a shovel to dig herself in > deeper. And many for years have hidden in panic, pain, lonliness, fear of being found to have a "mental illness". The public perception of MI is right up there with the nasty looks you get for being obese. It's a stigma, not unlike a scarlet letter that people fear will be waved in their face, till they refuse to even consider they might (I said Might) need help of some kind. While in that all consuming vortex of self-pity, self-loathing, self-abuse, cycle of MIs, it's a little difficult to get out of the box that is your world. Oh, you can look at someone elses box and see what they need, but for the person to see it for themselves takes an introspective analysis that the majority aren't ready to handle....with or without medication. I don't know very many people that could handle analysing theirself, problems, personalities, etc. Who really wants to see what they're really like and then deal with it? > Its a no win situation unless she comes to grip with where her > life is going - taking control is the only way to better herself. True. That is if taking control is possible at the point where the OP is at. Easily said, extremely difficult to do. Doesn't mean the OP should just give up and say "woe is me. I can't be fixed". Just that it takes a hericalean effort to realize it, then another to even try and do something about it. And there are times, that pulling yourself up by your own boot straps and exercising (yes, that god of weight loss) just isn't the right formula to fix the world/problem. Endorphines are great, but they are not eternal. Okay, I'm going to jump off my soap box and try not to land in a hole now. Sorry, but this is a sensitive topic that print doesn't relate well. Donna K. 398.8/281.8/275 (next short term goal) NWOE began Jan 2003 LC since May 2003 LC and CR since Jan 2005 Nuclear Girl- (sorry, I don't know how to quote, but will copy and paste what I want to reply to) > Evaluation is a good thing. And no medicine will help if the >person is not ready to be helped. Regardless of the mediciation or >reason for it, if she isn't ready to "try and respond" to whatever kind >of thearpy, it won't do any good. I do agree with this, but I also believe that in many people simply getting a medication such as prozac into your system will help you make the steps you need to make in order to live a healthier lifestyle. I can tell you that I wouldn't have gotten SO depressed and hide in my house all those years if I would have stayed on an anti-depressant. >Personally, I struggled for 20+ years to buck it up and not >take medication, because "I should be able to do this on my own". >Well, maybe others could, but I had a totally miserable existance and I >couldn't. It's a miracle that I survived. I just didn't want someone >who needed help to not try and get it. I totally can relate to this as I did the same thing! And even suggesting someone that truly needs help to stop taking medication is like sentencing them to hell. >It's hard with or without the pills. Absolutely! Just taking pills does not do everything, it just takes the edge off. Makes it POSSIBLE for ME to do it! >Really looking at yourself is hard and painfull. Yes, it definitely is! And when you finally take a good look at yourself it comes as a shock to you. I believe I finally took that good look in the mirror recently and I don't mean JUST my weight, I mean ME! >To really want to change something about yourself >that you have blamed for all your troubles for x years is scary I don't know how to get past that. But, I am not saying *I* am not responsible because I know it was my own doing. I know what I need to do to become healthy. I am just afraid of it. I am afraid of failing AGAIN. I am so afraid of losing weight and then gaining it back and then some, I have done this countless times in my life. >And many for years have hidden in panic, pain, lonliness, fear of being >found to have a "mental illness". The public perception of MI is right >up there with the nasty looks you get for being obese. It's a stigma, >not unlike a scarlet letter that people fear will be waved in their >face, till they refuse to even consider they might (I said Might) need >help of some kind. While in that all consuming vortex of self-pity, >self-loathing, self-abuse, cycle of MIs, it's a little difficult to get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >that could handle analysing theirself, problems, personalities, etc. >Who really wants to see what they're really like and then deal with it? This entire paragraph made such perfect sense and is very true. In my case, as well. >Doesn't mean the OP >should just give up and say "woe is me. I can't be fixed". Just that >it takes a hericalean effort to realize it, then another to even try >and do something about it. And there are times, that pulling yourself >up by your own boot straps and exercising (yes, that god of weight >loss) just isn't the right formula to fix the world/problem. >Endorphines are great, but they are not eternal. I believe I have come a very long way. However, I know I have a very long way to go too. I get discouraged. I worry of the "what ifs". I started my journey back to "me" with the basic stuff, the stuff that seemed most important to me and maybe trivial to people like Joni. And that was just taking a step outside of my house! Slowly, slowly taking one more step and one more step until I could finally go out in public. Then it was building up the courage to go to the doctor and ask for help. Oh boy, was that hard! It was so hard to actually tell a doctor what was going on with me. It was hard to face it. So, no, I have never expected a pill to just do it for me. I don't think there is a pill out there that just "fixes" a person, anyway. I don't mind hard work, I have struggled my entire life! But something that feels "impossible" to me, is more than just a struggle. Okay, I'm going to jump off my soap box and try not to land in a hole now. Sorry, but this is a sensitive topic that print doesn't relate well. > Nuclear Girl- (sorry, I don't know how to quote, but will copy and > paste what I want to reply to) First the useful stuff: To quote, rather than clicking on the "reply" option on the bottom you need to click on "show options" at the top of the post. Then click on the "reply" option that appears. Now for my rant, stop reading now if you like: Stop bitching about the way you look. You've lost 36 pounds in 2 months; that is fabulous success. If you are like everyone else in the world your weight loss is going to be much slower as time goes by. Yes weight lose and maintenance is possible without surgery but it requires patience and persistence. Joni has made some rather ignorant posts but they don't justify you're passive aggressive behavior towards her. She is not the reason you are fat or depressed. As you posted earlier, you are fat because you "have obviously not been eating and exercising the way I should be." You have to make changes in the way you are eating and the way you are living and they must be permanent. Don't overlook exercise. If you believe yourself to be "too fat to move around" you will no doubt become bed bound. Do whatever exercise you can. Aerobic exercise especially can be mood enhancing for many people. Perhaps you can start with walking. With consistency you will almost certainly make improvements. Continue seeking support from all the sources you can. I look forward to read of your CONTINUING success. Matthew > Stop bitching about the way you look. I was having a bad day. I thought that venting was a good thing? So, it is better to just keep those feelings stuffed up inside? >You've lost 36 pounds in 2 months; > that is fabulous success. If you are like everyone else in the world your > weight loss is going to be much slower as time goes by. Yes weight lose and > maintenance is possible without surgery but it requires patience and > persistence. I asked this question in the hopes of finding others that have been in my shoes. I hoped to hear some positive stories. > Joni has made some rather ignorant posts but they don't justify you're > passive aggressive behavior towards her. They don't justify it to you, but they do to me. It sure sounded to me as if she was snubbing her nose at me. I mean, come on, someone tells someone that is on an anti-depressant medication to basically stop taking the medication, buck up and do it on my own? I think she was very ignorant and rude in making that comment. There are many people that snub their nose at fat people. This is exactly what she was doing! >She is not the reason you are fat > or depressed. Ok, now you lost me. Where did I indicate that it was Joni's fault? That is rediculous to even say. lol >As you posted earlier, you are fat because you "have obviously > not been eating and exercising the way I should be." Yes I did. I also posted the HUGE changes I have made over the last 2 years. I have come a very long way. >You have to make > changes in the way you are eating and the way you are living and they must > be permanent. I am sure working on it, can't do more than that. As I said, I came here in the hopes of hearing some success stories. Something to give me encouragment. I hoped to use this forum as a tool in my life change journey. > Don't overlook exercise. As I sad, I have been exercising everyday. You know, I even said in my OP that I have lost weight over and over in my life. I know how to lose weight. I know how to exercise. And I know what you need to do to lose weight. I am certainly far from a newbie to this. I also know I must do something different this time in order to keep this weight off. However, I also need to know it is possible! That others have been succesful! Not that only 1 in a million over weight people have been succesful. If I feel this is fruitless, then I will lack motivation. I came here hoping to find motivation by those that have been there before me. >If you believe yourself to be "too fat to move > around" you will no doubt become bed bound. I didn't say that. I explained my fear in continueing losing weight. As I said, I have lost a lot of weight in the past. I have been dieting all my life. Each time I lose weight, I gain in back and then some. This is how I have creeped up to my current weight. I fear history repeating itself, only this time, if I am much fatter, I would be too fat to move around. >Do whatever exercise you can. > Aerobic exercise especially can be mood enhancing for many people. Perhaps > you can start with walking. With consistency you will almost certainly make > improvements. As I said, I have been walking. I walk every night with my entire family. We have been doing this for the past 2 years, however, there were gaps of time in between that I would skip a day here or there. > Continue seeking support from all the sources you can. Another reason I am here. I am not here to bitch or complain. Vent, yeah, I guess so. I was having a rough few days, I mean really rough! I haven't been that down in probably a year or more. >I look forward to > read of your CONTINUING success. And I look forward to continue reading your ranting :) You know, I am and have always been a "say it as I see it type of person." I felt Joni was mocking me, if you will, and I found it insulting. There is just nothing worse than someone that has never had a weight problem, some 110 lb perfect body woman telling ME how easy it would be to take off some of those dreaded pounds. (certainly not saying Joni is a skinny minnie, but she did jump in here and decided to judge my situation based on her medication beliefs without even knowing much about me. It was rediculous and frankly, I am still annoyed but it.) Oh, and thanks for the lesson on quoting :) Sherry >> Joni has made some rather ignorant posts but they don't justify > you're [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > very ignorant and rude in making that comment. There are many people > that snub their nose at fat people. This is exactly what she was doing! I am not sure if joni is a "she", however, the best behavior on usenet is to "take what you like and ignore the rest". If you do not like someone's opinions, it is your right to ignore that indidivual and you have great technical means to do so. I do not ignore joni's opinions, but, like everything else, I try to look at them with critical eye. joni had some good things to say before. Signature223/173.3/180 You are right. I should have tried to contain myself a bit more. I guess I have just gotten really tired of people that think they know how easy it should be for me to get out of my situation, when I know, FOR ME, it is NOT easy at all. I quit smoking 2 years ago, after smoking 1 to 1.5 packs a day for 18 years. Do you know that it was a drop in the bucket compared to losing weight for me? Some people continually fail at their attempts to quit smoking. I didn't have one single slip up. Matter fact, it was also the first time I ever tried to quit. Which, makes sense really. Had I of tried earlier, maybe before I was really ready, I could have failed and if I failed once, I wouldn't be as hopeful on my next attempt at quitting and I suppose that could continue on to many failed attempts. Just like losing weight. Maybe if this was the first time I had ever tried to lose weight, it would be as easy as Joni thinks it would be to lose weight. Who knows. > >> Joni has made some rather ignorant posts but they don't justify > > you're passive aggressive behavior towards her. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > but, like everything else, I try to look at them with critical > eye. joni had some good things to say before. Funny how some people said nearly the same thing I said thruout this thread, but I guess differently as it passed without pushing the OP buttons. I think you overread too much into my original post. I never said to 'throw away all your meds and buck up.' Thats your wording not mine, so I think thats a sore spot you have heard from others who think 'its all in your head'. I dont think that, I never said that. (can I underline that?) I think there is a time and place for some medications and I realize some people can benefit from antidepressants etc, but I think they should be rather a temporary solution and not a lifetime on them with no therapy which everyone on antidepressants should be into in combination IMHO. And this is just that, ya know MY OPINION. Thats what you get in newsgroups, opinions, ideas, whatever, take em or leave em. Personally speaking, a lifetime on mood altering prescription drugs is something I could not do. I would take vitamins/herbs or get into alternative methods before you could make me take a synthtic prescription drug that alters by brain chemisty and this comes from a VERY addictive personality. This may be digging myself in deeper, but what I said was 'forget the wellbutrin' (because you were about to switch from a drug that you said WAS helping you, and I have heard bad things about WB side effects) and try to be a little more introspective in changing your lifestyle without using the next new invention pill out there to make your life better, when there may be other ways to that. Have you ever gone thru ANY type of therapy or just relied on prescription pills? I dont recall reading that you had or not. While I realize I cant evaluate your situation, my statements ARE in general about how people can get wrapped up in depressants, antidepressants, stimulants etc, it can feed an inner addiction that tells you that you are nothing without these prescriptions that make you feel better about yourself. Take em away, your problems still exist. Medication has a way of masking things so that you dont see yourself from a third viewpoint if you get what I mean and I was just trying to be the antagonist to make you look to your innerself to maybe give you a bit of push you just might need. Thanks Ig, I love your posts too and thanks for occasionally standing in my corner. And yes I am female and yes I have lost alot of weight (100+) and still have way more to go (progress not perfection) yet I dont broadcast it, nor glory in it, because thats just the private side of me which I dont share online, but thats just me. I just try to help people with a bit of gleaned info when I can and will always try to remain introspective to those who cant seem do it for themselves. ;-) <<joni>> ------------------------------------- *and the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom* > > On 26 Mar 2005 21:11:34 -0800, wsherry72 <wsherry72@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > what you get in newsgroups, opinions, ideas, whatever, take em or leave > em. Joni, you said: "Forget the wellbutrin, weightloss pills and searching for the unatainable 'out there'magic bullet, only YOU can do this for YOURself! Exercise gives you feelgood endorphins, adopt it and change yourself. Visit Dr Phils website and read about the seven keys. You need to fix your head before you do anything. Stop kidding yourself and get serious!" How do you suppose that saying "Forget the wellbutrin, the weightloss pills and searching for the unatainable 'out there' magic bullet, only YOU can do this for YOURself!" Doesn't mean the same thing as "Throw away all your meds and buck up"? Do you suppose that saying "You need to fix your head before you do anything." somehow isn't going to come across as "it's all in your head", particularly following the part about "forget the wellbutrin, the weightloss pills..."? Perhaps you didn't mean what you said, or mean it the way you said it. That is immaterial. Getting put out because someone misunderstood you is worse than the person who took offense to the words you chose to use. > Personally speaking, a lifetime on mood altering prescription drugs is > something I could not do. Could you use a wheelchair for the rest of your life if you were in an accident and lost both legs? You think that losing your legs or being in a wheelchair isn't going to alter your mood? You figure that if you eat enough protien and calcium that the legs will grow back? Chronic severe depression is serious enough to warrant medical maintenance in the same way that losing your legs is serious enough to warrant medical maintenance...just one is more obviously mechanical than the other. >I would take vitamins/herbs or get into > alternative methods before you could make me take a synthtic > prescription drug that alters by brain chemisty and this comes from a > VERY addictive personality. Do you really think that vitamins or herbs or alternative methods aren't going to "alter your brain chemistry"? B-12 is generally used as a stress palliative because of it's effect on "mood" and "attitude". A good shot of B-12 will make one feel Much better. Why do you suppose that is? Why do you suppose that athletes will "carb load" before a big event? What do you suppose that does for them? >This may be digging myself in deeper, but > what I said was 'forget the wellbutrin' (because you were about to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > make you look to your innerself to maybe give you a bit of push you > just might need. Well, just consider me an antagonist, making you look at your innerself to maybe give you a bit of a push you just might need. ;) > Thanks Ig, I love your posts too and thanks for occasionally standing > in my corner. And yes I am female and yes I have lost alot of weight [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people with a bit of gleaned info when I can and will always try to > remain introspective to those who cant seem do it for themselves. ;-) "Being introspective to those who cant seem do it for themselves" isn't anything but a difficult way to say "busybody". You sound like a new age, wannabe hippie, that would rather live other's lives for them rather than take care of your own. You seem to be saying that it's better to come across as "holier than thou" than to mention your experience and the reason for your position, and you seem to take offense when someone doesn't like your tone of voice when you lecture them as an antagonist. Suck it up, Joni. You want to be self righteous, expect others to call you on it. Regards, mark evins > <<joni>> > > ------------------------------------- > > *and the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more > painful than the risk it took to blossom* > Chronic severe depression is serious enough to warrant medical > maintenance in the same way that losing your legs is serious enough to > warrant medical maintenance...just one is more obviously mechanical > than the other. May I chime in... I lurk because I haven't yet made a real commitment to weight loss, although have begun exercise and eating reasonably (just not low enough calories to be losing). And I do much appreciate the inspiration of those who do post. If the OP was taking Wellbutrin to curb cravings (as it is often prescribed) then I agree that it might have little to do with weight loss. But she also describes significant clinical depression. Speaking both personally and professionally, it sounds like she absolutely needs medication for depression. Vegetative, negative spinning, absolutely down-a.s kill-yourself depression. If one hasn't experienced this, be grateful. If you had, you'd never suggest that someone should toss away "pills" because they are a crutch or some such. Thank you for listening. Ilene B > > Chronic severe depression is serious enough to warrant medical > > maintenance in the same way that losing your legs is serious enough to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > May I chime in... I lurk because I haven't yet made a real commitment to > weight loss, although have begun exercise and eating reasonably (just > not low enough calories to be losing). And I do much appreciate the > inspiration of those who do post. My wife's success in that so far is an inspiration to me to work harder at my own brand of troubles. ;) > If the OP was taking Wellbutrin to curb cravings (as it is often > prescribed) then I agree that it might have little to do with weight > loss. But she also describes significant clinical depression. Speaking > both personally and professionally, it sounds like she absolutely needs > medication for depression. Vegetative, negative spinning, absolutely > down-a.s kill-yourself depression. If one hasn't experienced this, be > grateful. If you had, you'd never suggest that someone should toss away > "pills" because they are a crutch or some such. Absolutely. I have been on wellbutrin for 7 years because of clinical depression. At one time, I drew disability because of depression, but *that* was even more demeaning and I worked back into the tax paying side of things. Medical maintenance of depression is definately nothing to dismiss as casually as Joni did, nor are the benefits of other medical treatments. > Thank you for listening. Thanks for your comment. ;) Best Regards, mark evins > Ilene B > Absolutely. I have been on wellbutrin for 7 years because of clinical > depression. At one time, I drew disability because of depression, but > *that* was even more demeaning and I worked back into the tax paying > side of things. Medical maintenance of depression is definately nothing > to dismiss as casually as Joni did, nor are the benefits of other > medical treatments. You guys are absolutely right on this one, however, like I pointed out on another reply to the OP, posting a question to an open Usenet group is like asking around in the park, you may get some good answers but there's always people who think they know everything & want to go as far as to offer medical advice to a total stranger on the basis of a bit of text typed on a message, something even a qualified MD couldn't do. The OP can't really expect every answer to come from s/one who is well informed & has common sense, she has to exercise judgement & ignore those replies that are clearly out of line rather than getting upset or taking it personal. > The OP can't really > expect every answer to come from s/one who is well informed & has common > sense, she has to exercise judgement & ignore those replies that are clearly > out of line rather than getting upset or taking it personal. Yes. However, she seemed to be a new poster and seemed also to have a lot of cognitive skewing due to depression, so I think it's not a great time for her to be in a free-fire zone of response. The negative comments about medications might only play into her already skewed thoughts. Yes, you're right about an open forum. Ilene B I ALSO take a med for clinical depression and I have ms. MS won't go away but I NEED help to deal. So I HOPE that NO ONE will toss the meds away!!! We are each one differant !!! BE CAREFUL !!! TRY ASKING THE DOC NOT people 'IN THE PARK" !!!! ( OR HERE:) glo I ask my doctor lots of questions. I even do research on the net about every single medication I take. However, hearing from actual people that have used medications and have life experiences are far more realistic to me then a text book answer. The 2 things I wanted to know from anyone with experience was....... have you taken phentermine? what did you think of it? (I had never heard of this medication before my doc gave it to me and quit frankly, the description on the internet about the drug was a tad bit alarming, so I was hoping there was some average joes out there that actually used the meds that could spill the beans) and my other question was about weight loss. I wanted to know or hear from someone that had succeeded in losing a significant amount of weight (not with surgery) AND kept it off. Losing the weight is one thing but keeping it off, now that is another thing entirely! And the thing I have failed at time and time again. Because I have failed so many times I am afraid to fail again. Each failure meant after losing a significant amount of weight, I would not only gain that weight back but I would gain more than what I had lost in the first place..... slowly creeping up to a dangerous weight. So, if I fail again where will I be? Dead probably. I was seeking encouragement and hoped I could find inspiration. You know, the other day when I posted I was having a really really bad few days. I am usually not that emotional (well, on my meds anyway, off them is a different story). I feel tons better now. > The 2 things I wanted to know > from anyone with experience was....... have you taken phentermine? > what did you think of it? I took it briefly when it first came out, although I had seen something on TV ("60 Minutes?") about how it can cause a rare form of pulmonary hypertension, leading to death, and some heart valve damage. I took it for about four weeks. For a couple of days, it stopped my appetite and cravings. I thought, "This must be how it is to be normal about food." I only ate when I was hungry and didn't eat much and didn't want tons of bad stuff. It felt wonderful. Then the effect ended, so I stopped taking it after a few weeks. I was taking the Phen/fen combination. I think it's fentermine with the Phentermine or something. I forget. However, the potential for lethal side effects is very real. I don't think it's worth the chance, unless there's been some change in that possibility. Ilene B IIene, No, they removed the bad fen out of the drug and this is what is left. This is not the drug that caused the heart problems. The only real fear, I believe, from taking this is the fact that it can be addictive. But, I am not on a high enough dosage. I mean, I don't feel anything when I take it. It gives me no symptoms at all. They only thing the pill does for me is curb my appetite so that I can eat at regular times and regular amounts of food. I don't feel "high" on it at all. >I ask my doctor lots of questions. I even do research on the net about > every single medication I take. However, hearing from actual people [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > few days. I am usually not that emotional (well, on my meds anyway, > off them is a different story). I feel tons better now. In addition to the advice you've received I highly recommend reading Thin for Life. The author interviewed two hundred people who have lost weight and kept it off and has summarized the things that were common among the successful people. It's very motivating and has some great information in it. It might help you find both the inspiration and encouragement you seek. Signaturethe volleyballchick > >I ask my doctor lots of questions. I even do research on the net about > > every single medication I take. However, hearing from actual people [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > successful people. It's very motivating and has some great information in > it. It might help you find both the inspiration and encouragement you seek. We should get back to discussing this book. I haven't finished it yet but I have managed to read another couple chapters. Beverly What do you think of this book, Beverly? I just went to ebay and found a copy of it and bid on it. So, I will get one soon and check it out. I would love to hear what people that have lost weight and kept it off did to maintain the weight. I don't need to "learn" how to lose weight, I know how to do that as I have done it dozens of times...... I just haven't figured out the "keeping it off" thing yet :) Sounds like a great book! I can't wait to read it! > What do you think of this book, Beverly? I just went to ebay and found > a copy of it and bid on it. So, I will get one soon and check it out. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > just haven't figured out the "keeping it off" thing yet :) Sounds like > a great book! I can't wait to read it! I've only read the first few chapters and I've found it very helpful. We've discussed the first chapters in the group and found many of us agree with the author on what it takes to keep the weight off. I've been at or near my goal weight for several years and was pleased to read that the things I've done are very similar to what is described in the book. You really should read it. It has very good tips on losing and maintaining a weight loss. Beverly 177/142/~140 wsheryy, I have Thin For Life and I LOVE IT. As for me, I've lost a ton (over 100 lbs) and that was over 20 years ago. I saved those huge pants (size 42 waist) and i gained about two sizes back since. (about 27lbs) I'm now one size away from the 12s and I saved the pictures from eah step of my WOE/WOL life is BETTER! I tried MANY times to lose!!! If you don't TRY than you can't know if this IS that time for you!!! This group is very great!! I bounce all kinds of STUFF off of them here:) and I love MOST of them here. I find that I FEEL BETTER after I come here while down into those pits of the blues!! I WILL watch for you here and you are just so cool:) You WANT THIS!! to work!! IT WILL WORK!! Keep at it wsherry!!! I went through the depression and the hospital and the garbage!!! It helps to come here!!! DO NOT GIVE UP!!! love reading yo here!! <HUGS> glo > We should get back to discussing this book. I haven't finished it yet but > I > have managed to read another couple chapters. I agree. Where should we start? All we did was the first two chapters and I guess they can be googled for those who want to play catch-up. Signaturethe volleyballchick > > We should get back to discussing this book. I haven't finished it yet but > > I > > have managed to read another couple chapters. > > I agree. Where should we start? All we did was the first two chapters and > I guess they can be googled for those who want to play catch-up. I checked the book out from the library and while its style was a bit annoying to me there was very good information. Here are the links to previous chapter discussions: Key #1: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet/browse_frm/thread /22628989123c8e7e/9b7421a5f3962d29#9b7421a5f3962d29 Key #2: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet/browse_frm/thread /d5a8f114efbc2c58/bff88ef7c2c3f589#bff88ef7c2c3f589 Is Jenn still posting here? Matthew > > > We should get back to discussing this book. I haven't finished it > yet but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Key #1: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet/browse_frm/thread > /22628989123c8e7e/9b7421a5f3962d29#9b7421a5f3962d29 or http://tinyurl.com/5rpty > Key #2: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet/browse_frm/thread > /d5a8f114efbc2c58/bff88ef7c2c3f589#bff88ef7c2c3f589 or http://tinyurl.com/3ps5q I meant that I gained back about 17 pounds! NOT 27 :( This was from the over 100 which I lost and it FOUND ME AGAIN:( PART OF IT ! I've NEVER needed to shop in the big ladies store since I lost the POUNDS! About 20 years ago. glo:) That is fantastic Gloria! I definitely intend on sticking around :) I think that if I stay on top of it (and just coming here does help) I can keep in control of it. That is just it, I need to make sure I don't lose control again. Anyway, I am pretty happy because after weighing this morning, I see that I have now lost 40 lbs :) I have been only trying to weigh myself once a week. I actually had to have my husband take the scale out of the bathroom and put it where I couldn't get to it because I found (and I do this whenever I am trying to lose weight!) that I was weighing myself multiple times in a day and if the scale showed me being a lb more (and you know you fluctuate during the day and night) I would get discouraged even though I know that isn't rational. Anyway, it is good to see I have taken off another 3lbs since my last weighing. Thanks for being an inspiration Glo, you give me hope that I can do it too!! :) Sherry Sherry, so how much do you still want/need to lose? I also was weighing ALL DAY LONG!! I try to do this just one time each AM and this week I've been three days since last weigh in:) You are doing very well !! YOU are an inspiration to me too:) You remind me of that journey which was a challenge!! It is still not easy to keep on track but WE CAN DO IT :) Have a great day! glo >> > We should get back to discussing this book. I haven't finished it > yet but [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Matthew Yes, under a new name. Signaturethe volleyballchick Wow, that is great! I will definitely look for that book and read it, thank you for the recommendation! > They don't justify it to you, but they do to me. It sure sounded to me > as if she was snubbing her nose at me. I mean, come on, someone tells > someone that is on an anti-depressant medication to basically stop > taking the medication, buck up and do it on my own? I think she was > very ignorant and rude in making that comment. There are many people > that snub their nose at fat people. This is exactly what she was doing! You must bear in mind that posting a question to a Usenet group is a bit like going down to the park & asking round what people think. You'll find a mixed bag of answers, according to people's personal ideas & experiences. You have to take the answers with a pinch of salt. Whilst it's true that the answer to everyone's problems doesn't come in a pill, it's also true that pills *can* help in many ways. Some people derive satisfaction from doing things the hard way, there are those who feel very proud to say they haven't even tried a diet soda, low calorie or 'diet' substitute of any food in the past 10 yrs because they only eat 'real' food. I also know people who won't take a painkiller when they have a headache. Since you're under medical supervision, if the diet pills are doing their job, you experience no nasty side effects and they're not addictive then there's no reason no to take them. Just being able to say 'I lost all this weight without any help' is certainly NOT a valid reason. > I am sure working on it, can't do more than that. As I said, I came > here in the hopes of hearing some success stories. Something to give > me encouragment. I hoped to use this forum as a tool in my life change > journey. There are some good success stories but, as with everything else, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff, it's just like finding a property, a job or a partner, there are a few that fit your requirements but many don't, you have to keep looking... > As I said, I have been walking. I walk every night with my entire > family. We have been doing this for the past 2 years, however, there > were gaps of time in between that I would skip a day here or there. Exercise is good but it's *not* the cure for every problem. What it does is help you burn more calories so you can lose more weight without restricting calories too far. I have no idea how much you currently weigh, all I can say is that the faster you [can] walk, the greater the benefits. If you walk with your whole family you're probably 'strolling' rather than walking for exercise, I don't know this for a fact, just assuming. This is what Fitday says about calories burnt walking: strolling (under 2 miles/hr) 97 cals/hr walking slowly (2 miles/hr) 121 cals/hr moderate pace (2.5 miles/hr) 146 cals/hr brisk (3.5 miles/hr) 185 cals/hr As you can see, the faster you walk the more effective the exercise, however, the amounts burnt are rather modest, not even enough to burn the calories from an average choc bar ;-( > And I look forward to continue reading your ranting :) You know, I am > and have always been a "say it as I see it type of person." I felt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > situation based on her medication beliefs without even knowing much > about me. It was rediculous and frankly, I am still annoyed but it.) Joni's reply was out of line, you just don't tell people to stop taking meds prescribed by their doctor without even knowing them, however, it's down to YOU to decide, if I was to tell you on this post that the best thing for you is to do the 'tuna & water' diet would you start doing it today? No? Well, why would you? Same thing with the meds... I don't see a weight figure on Joni's posts, how do you know she(?) weighs 110lbs? For all we know, she(?) may weigh 310! wsherry72 schreef: > As I sad, I have been exercising everyday. You know, I even said in my > OP that I have lost weight over and over in my life. I know how to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > motivation. I came here hoping to find motivation by those that have > been there before me. I think it *is* possible. People on this newsgroup have done it. I'm not at my goal weight yet, but I believe I can do it too. I don't know if you'll find my story inspiring, but here goes: I first started losing weight with Weight Watchers, when I was 80 kg (~176 lb). It worked, but I was always hungry, and when I reached my target weight I stopped going to meetings and started swelling up again. In 1999, I was 101.5 kg (almost 224 lb). I lost over 20 kg eating low fat and exercising (weight training), but I didn't keep it up and went back up again - but not *all the way* back up: in 2002, when I was around 90 kg, I discovered Atkins and Fitday, and I lost around 15 kg on that (no exercise). But then I stalled, and I quit using Fitday. But I continued eating LC, and I went up only a little, to ~78 kg, and I maintained that for about 2 years without effort, because this time I had really changed my way of eating. Then I discovered that my weight had crept up again to 82 kg at the start of this year. So I started entering my food (and drink, very important) in Fitday again, and paying more attention to calories this time and less to carbs. I still don't eat a *lot* of carbs, but I do eat 1-2 pieces of fruit again every day (yum!). I've lost almost 10 kg this year, and I haven't even started weight training again (but I will, real soon now). I *do* get some exercise, BTW: I do aikido 2x a week, and I ride my bicycle there and also to work (both are about 20 minutes each way). So I'm not quite there yet, but I *have* managed to lose a lot of weight and *keep* most of it off. And I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to reach my target and maintain it, with what I have learned about nutrition & exercise (thanks to this ng, among others). HTH, Berna (101.5/72.6/~68 kg) Signature( )_( ) Berna M. Bleeker-Slikker / . . \ berna.bleeker@gmail.com \ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl Joni, but what you don't get is by dropping such medications (for me anyway) would make it IMPOSSIBLE to adopt a healthy lifestyle because without the medications, I would have no will at all to try to get better. I would become so depressed, like I was before, when I quit taking them. I went YEARS without leaving my house! I am serious! When I finally decided I had to get out of this, I remember creeping out the front door and just wanting to crawl inside myself and hide. I was TERRIFIED of coming into contact with strangers or even people I knew and hadn't seen in a long time. That was 2 years ago and I still struggle with leaving the house, but I do it. And I know that the medication is a major factor in that. Once I got back on Prozac (I had actually taken it many years earlier, before I became house-bound) I started to find courage to do things. Even if it only meant going with my husband to a grocery store. It was like I jumped a thousand hurdles. Man, I remember going into the store and being so lost with those atm/credit machines at the register. I felt like a fish out of water. I have lived in my town for 15 years and when I became house-bound, there was a lot of construction on many main roads, changing the way you traveled and I had NO idea that it was even being done! I remember going with my husband in the car and being totally shocked at the new roads and new turns and new one way streets, etc and he said "Oh, they have been working on this for the last 3 years." I had no idea. Now, I drive around and I am still totally lost on those roads! They confuse me because I never got used to them. Anyway, my point is..... Your suggestion is totally not what could possibly work for me. I would never want to go backwards. I am terrified of it. And you know, you should be more careful in telling people things like "get off your anti=depressants" because there are people that are severly mentally ill (like, I have a sister that is schitzophrenic and she gets off her meds all the time) that would take your words as the gospel and get off their medication and end up killing themself! This is how my sister is. Anyone could convince her to stop taking her meds, anyone. And every damned time she does, she tries to kill herself. So, although you may think you are "helping". You never know who is on the other end and suggesting someone stop taking medication that deal with mental illness is a very bad idea. I think a doctor would know much more than you do as the doctor knows the patient and you are reading someone by a mere few words over the net. And what do you mean by "She is looking for an answer in pill form when she isnt doing anything for herself if you know what I mean"? How do you know? I have jumped hurdles, thank you very much! I have gone from being house-bound to living in the real world again, I quit smoking 2 years ago. I have lost 36 lbs over hte last few months. I have worked every single day trying to change my entire lifestyle. Please, leave the diagnosing to the professionals. Cuz you don't know what you are talking about! I am glad you have it so together, btw. You must be perfect! I bet you are at the perfect weight and so healthy! Never had a depressing day in your life too! Anyway, it is nice to know there are perfect people like you around, Joni. I can assure you that the anti-depressant is strictly for my depression. However, I have been on prozac for a very long time and in the last couple of months the doc wanted to switch me on Wellbutrin because she did say it could help me with weight loss. I, however, am not taking it for that reason and I don't think it helps that anyway. Personally, I don't think it works near as well as the prozac! My next appointment is next week, I am going to ask that I be put back on Prozac. I am sick of feeling this way! And after this long of being on Wellbutrin, I should be feeling the full effect. Not crying myself to sleep a couple of nights a week. I hate this. >I have been struggling with weight my entire life. I am so sick and >tired of being this way. I am fatter than I ever dreamed I would be. >I absolutely despise what I see in the mirror and often wonder why my >husband stays with me. >I have a lot of health issues. Diabetes, high blood pressure, high >cholesterol, overactive thyroid, sleep apnea, enlarged heart, fatty >liver and I am sure there are more but haven't been figured out yet. >Oh yeah, did I mention depression? lol It seems the weight is what >has caused every single one of my health issues. >I am 36 years and female. >I am currently on a ton of meds, but have recently been switched from >fluoxetine to wellbutrin. I am on my 3rd month of this switch and I >find that the wellbutrin doesn't help at all. I am so miserable and >wasn't feeling this way on fluoxetine. My doc says that fluoxetine and >phentermine can't be taken together. >I finally get the doc to prescribe me this drug and I have to go off >the one drug that makes my quality of life feel so much better. Yeah, >I have lost 36 lbs in the last 2 months, wonderful. Wish I felt like I >have lost weight, I still see the same ugly person in the mirror. >Is it even possible to lose a lot of weight and keep it off without >surgery? I have lost and gained sooo much weight in my life, over and >over again and always gain it back plus some. Is there anyway I can >lose weight this time and not gain it back? Am I destined to be >bed-bound because I am just to fat to move around? >sigh, hope someone has something good to say to me. I don't know much >about phentermine, ok, I know nothing about it. What do you think of >this drug? I have used phentermine a great deal in my on-going battle with th bulge and I can tell you that it isn't going to do anything for your outlook on life. The main reason I stopped taking it is because it has a lot of negative side effects emotionally speaking. Don't be surprised if you find that it gives you a lot of feelings of anxiety, which I definitely did not like. Sounds to me like you need to do some work not only on your weight but your self esteem. You seem to think there is some connection between your weight and happiness. There isn't. You can be happy at any weight. Until you deal with your self esteem issues, you aren't going to be happy if you weight 100 pounds. I think rather than sinking my money into diet therapy, I would get my head straightened out. Being skinny and miserable isn't any better than being heavy and miserable. Even if you achieve your weight level idea, you won't be able to enjoy it. chula > Being skinny and miserable isn't any better than being heavy and > miserable. Well, a skinny and miserable person would likely have a longer miserable life than the fat miserable person... You decide which is better. For me, losing weight made me much happier and my mood more stable. Self image issues played a minimal role in this, I am simply feeling better physically, and it helps a lot to be in a good mood. Signature223/173.3/180 I don't knwo anything about phentermine. But I am very famliar with depression. I couldn't imagine going on a diet while depressed. Although i did go through a depressive episode where I didnb't feel liek eating and did lose wight. One way or the other, I hope your depression is being treated. Getting that out of the way could definitely help you when working on your weight. Exercise helps both depression and creating a healthier weight. Even such little thigns as taking walks or using the stairs rahtehr then evelvators. All the little things help. Oops, I just discovered that phentermine is an antidepressant. I thought it was somthing different. That emasn you're being treated for yor depression. I think that is good is news. I really believe that your meds (for depression need to be taken ! I know what it is to have exreme depression and I couldn't deal with weight loss until AFTER I got the head on straight. Being blue is a terrible thng and changing one's diet is also a WONDERFUL thing that can help the mood swings. You might find that just by changing what you eat can alter your mood swings!! I have lost a whole person but first I needed to fix my head. (269+/to 150) but the peace came WITH meds PLUS therapy. Once you begin this journey you WILL want to fight to stay on it. Better health IS the place to be. You have recieved WONDERFUL posts here and if you have a printer please copy a bunch of these and keep them where you can read OFTEN! I was even putting some things on my frig to help me through. Once you are empowered you WILL become stronger & stronger but you need to find the help from others. Please stay very close to HERE! These guys are very WONDERFUL to help !!! Hey, we WANT to help YOU:) Look at you !! YOU ARE BETTER ALREADY just because you are starting to WANT help!!!! This journey can be fun!!! Stick like glue and when it gets harder to stay just tell us about it. CRY HERE & CELEBRATE HERE!! It WORKS!!! THE BEST TO YOU!!!! AND<HUGS> glo Jake, I can't go on a "diet" or I will fail. So, I will never "diet" again. However, changing my eating habits could work :) (yeah, I guess they are essentially the same thing, but I just can't word it that way. I have to do it differently this time.) And you are SO right about "dieting" and depression. Who can even consider what is healthy for them when they are so far in the dumps that they can't see out. I must say, however, today I feel much better than I did yesterday or the day before. This may be a little too much info, but being very overweight, as I am, messes with a womans menstral cycle and so I never know when it will start. Sometimes twice a month, sometimes twice a year.. anyway, I discovered today that that could be the reason I have been so freaky the last few days :) PMS and me is not a good mix! I get crazy! And it is hard for me to even tell the difference in me having PMS and my regular crappy depression because I am just not myself at all. I am always relieved when I start my period though, cuz I know the emotion crap is over. And by the way, because of this, I feel maybe the wellbutrin is working better. I have felt the last few days it wasn't working at all, but it could just not be enough to help me through PMS?? Who knows! But, feel sorry for my husband! LOL I am so lucky because he is so patient and kind to me, no matter what! I am so glad you are getting treatment for your depression. And that it may be working, too. Sometimes I takes more than one try to find a med that works for you, so one way or antoher, there will be probably be one that works for you. And if you can find ways to improve your diet even before your depression ahs cleared completely, great. Even if that just menas increasing the amount of slow carbs in your diet or having more veggies, or whatever. FOod luck to yoU! I am glad you are on the right track. Hi, wsherry. Ok, here goes nothing. This is MY personal outlook on diet drugs. I have seen people use the combo phen-fen (the fenfluramine is no longer prescribed) and lose tons of weight. I have also seen them gain it back and then some. Two of my family members got very, very thin while taking it and today are more overweight than they were when they started taking it. When they heard it was being taken off the market they both panicked, which goes to show how dependent they were on the pills. They thought they 'needed' them to stay thin. All I can say is do NOT get into that mindset while taking the pills. Use them to give you extra help while you learn new behaviors, like portion control and healthy eating. If the phentermine helps you make progress, great, but realize you cannot take them forever. JMO. Wendy Right Wendy. This was a concern of mine too. However, I am very aware that I can only be on them short-term. You see, I woudln't even consider it, nor would my doctor, but I am so overweight that I could have a stroke any day. She and I both weighed out the pros and cons and then decided which risks were more risky. And quite frankly, being so overweight is more of a threat to me right now than the drugs. She basically wants me to take off a chunk of weight quickly so that I can get out of that very high risk category. My concern is gaining weight back and then some. I have done this more times in my life than I can count. I think I was 12 the first time I went on a diet. I was probably 20 lbs over weight but thought I was HUGE! I lost all the weight and then some. Then I gained it back and ended up 30 lbs over weight and I went from there to more diets, losing more weight and gaining it back, over and over again. But, the difference is this..... Every time I went on a "diet", I kept the same mind set. And that was "I am only on this diet long enough to lose weight, then I can eat "normal" again" and "once I am thin, then I won't have to diet anymore". Well, now I know this is not true. I know that most people gain their weight back and then some and the reason for that is because they keep this mindset. They think they can go back to their old way of eating. And this is not the case. I am using these pills to help me get into the right habits. To try to shrink my stomach enough that it won't feel hungry all the time. To try to make new habits and realize that I can actually live my entire life this way. I don't HAVE to have all the high calorie and fat foods. And exercise. I know this has to be a daily routine. Every single day for the rest of my life I need to get enough activity to stay healthy. See, in the past, I could do all these things and I did them well! Yep, I have lost 20 lbs, 40 lbs, 50 lbs, 75 lbs, 100 lbs and more many times over. I have done it so many times and just ended up gaining the weight back so many times that I am fearful. I have been afraid to lose weight for the fear of ending up even bigger! So, some of the changes I have made in my life, I have made slowly. And I have made realistically. Changes I can tolerate for the rest of my life. Some simple ones... quitting the regular pop. (ok, so this wasn't simple at all because I hate diet colas, but found that there are some diet drinks that I do like, finally, for the first time, I have quit pop and switched to diet and stuck to it, it has been about 10 months since I have had a sugar-filled pop! and I used to drink 4-6 cans a coke every single day!) I have increased my water intake. And because I get grossed out by so many things, I can only drink bottled water, which makes it harder because it is more expensive to drink a large amount of water. So, I am trying so hard to drink tap water. I wish it didn't gross me out so much! I can't even eat ice from a freezer because that grosses me out too. Only ice from bags of ice work for me. But then, what can I put in with the ice if I can't tolerate tap water? Anyway, that is something I am working on. I have switched from whole and 2% milk to fat-free milk. I made this switch for my entire family, so the whole family will benifit from this. Although, I am the only one over weight in my family. I have always made sure my kids eat healthy and stayed active in sports, etc, because I didn't want htem to go through what I have. Other changes are going from white bread to wheat, instead of margarine we eat the low fat stuff. I have gone from regular mayonnaise to the fat-free stuff. Other fat-free changes I have made are yogurts, cream cheese, sour cream. I stock pile on the healthy choice type frozen dinners so that I have a lunch ready for me everyday. I have found that if I have to search around for something to eat during the day, I am more likely to choose something that is quick and easy but higher in calories/fat/carbs. Plus, so many foods gross me out, especially something that has sat in the fridge more than a day or two. I know the food is ok, but I can't choke it down. Some things that vary from that are mayonnaise and dressings, etc. However, if they are anywhere near the expiration date or if I find a bit of food that has fallen into the jars, I am done for with that item. Anyway, other changes I have made are making sure I have a large salad with both lunch and dinner. I always eat the salad first. I just can't change my dressing, which I hope I can at some point. I have bought the low fat and fat free bleu cheese dressing and it is so yucky. I have been using about 1 tablespoon (sometimes less) of regular bleu cheese since it is the only one I like. (If anyone has any other ideas of what is good and low cal, let me know! For now, I have like 10 different salad dressings in my fridge I have bought and tried and hated!!) I have definitely added more veggies to my diet, although, we always have eaten a lot of them. I am so much more conscience of how I prepare meals. No sense in adding that extra blob of margarine or chug of whole milk. I make my food more low fat than my husbands and kids because they can handle more fat and I think restricting them too much could cause problems later on. I have been eating more things like cream of wheat and oatmeal. I changed from regular sugar to splenda. I make sure I trim any piece of meat before cooking it. I buy lean meats and try to eat mostly chicken. I wish I liked fish. I keep trying different kinds hoping I will find the one I like. But to date, the only ones I find that I enjoy are the battered and deep fried stuff and well, that kinda takes the healthy reason out of eating the stuff :) I like halibut, but don't like the fresh stuff you cook. I need to figure out a good way to cook it, I think. We go on nightly walks, the entire family. I have an exercise machine sitting my living room. I can watch a tv program while I exercise. This works out well. There are, of course, many other changes, but these are some of the main ones I have made and believe I can live with! So, basically, this is waht I am doing... finding ways of changing things a little at a time. I try different products till I find the one that I can live with. I intend on keeping this up. I know I feel so much better and have even cut down to almost no diabetes meds! My blood sugars have been outstanding. My blood pressure is very good also, but I am on medication for that. Anyway, this is me rambling. Can you imagine what it must be like talking to me in person? lol Well, I just wanted to try to explain my mindset. I truly am not a big fat person that sits on the couch eating doritos and chugging down the pop. I have never been like that. Although I was a coke drinking, I wasn't a sit on the couch and eat all day type a person. I am not lazy. Although people equate fat with lazy. This is not the case. I have to eat less than the average joe to maintain weight. If I eat as much as my thin neighbor does, I will get fatter and fatter. I hope that I can find a way to speed up my metabolism. I have found that eating less carbs (stuff like sweets, breads, pasta, rice, etc) I don't feel as hungry as I did before. I only took half a phentermine pill today in the hopes of seeing my appetite being lessened, but it doesn't seem to be, so i guess I will keep taking a full pill for awhile longer. I really hope I can decrease my appetite with reducing my food intake on these pills so I can do it on my own after I am no longer taking the pills. If anyone has any ideas, I would love to read about them. Thanks and sorry for this epic post! I am highly doubtful that phentermine would do anything in the long run. It can happen, that would be great, but it is unlikely. It does not permanently solve your problem, specifically that you want to eat a lot more than you need to eat to be a person at a sensible weight. Check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15251779 You would see that phentermine does produce some good weight loss, and then weight loss stops at still high weight (average BMI goes down from 45 to 37 in the first year, rises back to 38 in the second year). The dropout rate is 42% in the first year, and 68% in the second year. Besides phentermine, I would also give gastric bypass a serious consideration. If I was in your position, from a decision making standpoint, I would probably do the following. 1. Skip phentermine, go on a low carb/eat less diet, and do at least some minimum of exercise . I would try to do it in a very "focused" manner. (focused being an euphemism of "obsessive", that is, paying dieting a lot of attention and making it a highest priority) If that does not work, I would 2. do a gastric bypass. People will say how dangerous it is, because of complications, but complications from serious overeating are even worse. If there is a better alternative like actually losing weight through diet, great, if dieting does not work, it is better to do a GB. I would also try to simultaneously seek some endocrinologist, perhaps some highly recommended specialist, to see if they can find something that might be causing your problems. Not just some guy in a suburban mall who is mostly interested in billing insurance companies. It is possible that there is some undiagnosed condition that is the cause of all your various problems. It is worth exploring this, without postponing trying to lose weight. i > I am highly doubtful that phentermine would do anything in the long > run. It can happen, that would be great, but it is unlikely. It does > not permanently solve your problem, specifically that you want to eat > a lot more than you need to eat to be a person at a sensible weight. > > Check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15251779 > You would see that phentermine does produce some good weight loss, and > then weight loss stops at still high weight (average BMI goes down [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Besides phentermine, I would also give gastric bypass a serious > consideration. Not an option. We would have to pay 100% for it and we sure don't have it. Otherwise I woulda had one already :) > If I was in your position, from a decision making standpoint, I would > probably do the following. 1. Skip phentermine, go on a low carb/eat > less diet, and do at least some minimum of exercise . I would try to > do it in a very "focused" manner. (focused being an euphemism of > "obsessive", that is, paying dieting a lot of attention and making it > a highest priority) This is something I have done so many times and I know it isn't succesful for me. I get obsessed with it and then I lose tons of weight, too fast. I need to just make small changes with adding exercise, like I have been doing. The phen helps me stay focused. I am hoping that I can get a good start with the phen, then continue once I am off the drug. > If that does not work, I would 2. do a gastric bypass. People will say > how dangerous it is, because of complications, but complications from > serious overeating are even worse. If there is a better alternative > like actually losing weight through diet, great, if dieting does not > work, it is better to do a GB. This is how I see taking the phen. Yes, the medication isn't the best thing to be putting in your body, but complications of being overweight are worse. And I wouldn't go as far as saying "seriously overeating." Overeating, yes, but not like TONS of food. Heck, my 15 year old could out eat me on my best day and he is a very lean kid. > I would also try to simultaneously seek some endocrinologist, perhaps > some highly recommended specialist, to see if they can find something [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > all your various problems. It is worth exploring this, without > postponing trying to lose weight. Oh my. I love my doctor. She really cares about my success. She has helped me tons, I couldnt' even consider finding a new doc. >> I am highly doubtful that phentermine would do anything in the long >> run. It can happen, that would be great, but it is unlikely. It does [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Not an option. We would have to pay 100% for it and we sure don't have > it. Otherwise I woulda had one already :) Makes sense. >> If I was in your position, from a decision making standpoint, I would >> probably do the following. 1. Skip phentermine, go on a low carb/eat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > succesful for me. I get obsessed with it and then I lose tons of > weight, too fast. Well, then you may as well try to do it a little more slowly. > I need to just make small changes with adding exercise, like I have > been doing. The phen helps me stay focused. I am hoping that I can [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Overeating, yes, but not like TONS of food. Heck, my 15 year old could > out eat me on my best day and he is a very lean kid. I do not have any great moral objection to phentermine, it just does not seem like it offers a great likelihood of success. You may try to combine it with a sensible dieting approach like low carb. (which would be helpful for your diabetes also). Also, diabetic meds that stabilise blood sugar like metformin, have been reported to produce some modest weight loss. It would be interesting to see how they combine with phentermine. i >> I would also try to simultaneously seek some endocrinologist, perhaps >> some highly recommended specialist, to see if they can find something [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh my. I love my doctor. She really cares about my success. She has > helped me tons, I couldnt' even consider finding a new doc. Signature223/173.3/180 > Right Wendy. This was a concern of mine too. However, I am very aware > that I can only be on them short-term. You see, I woudln't even [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > reason for that is because they keep this mindset. They think they can > go back to their old way of eating. And this is not the case. It's good that you're realizing this - to me it was one of the most important lessons to be learned. I was in a similar situation as you. Overweight/obese since childhood, "dieted" since age 12 but never reached a "normal" weight. Every diet resulted in a regain and then some until I finally reached a pinnacle of 317 lbs. I could stick to a diet for months at a time but then it would be disrupted for a variety of reasons and I'd never get back on the wagon. Finally I considered GB surgery because I was becoming hypertensive as a result of my weight. I had already done Redux and it was great for a few months then stopped working. The FDA recall and subsequent echocardiogram scared me out of ever thinking of taking another weight loss drug. My doctor encouraged me to try HMR, a very low calorie liquid diet, before considering surgery. It actually worked. I reached a normal weight for the first time in my life. I highly recommend it if you need to lose a lot of weight quickly. I also recommend that if you do go in that direction that you only use the VLCD portion for the first 1/2 of your weight loss and then switch to one of their plans that incorporates fruits and vegetables and real food for the last 1/2 as it will teach you to eat properly and give you a chance to practice while continuing your weight loss. The program is not cheap but it provides food, medical supervision, education, and support and exercise is an integral part of it. I don't recommend this often, but you sound so much like I was at one point. I've even had a bout with agoraphobia where I could not leave my house for a few months as a result of PTSD. Losing the weight didn't solve all of my problems but it's a lot easier to deal with some things. I've kept off more weight in the last 18 months than with any other diet in the past and part of the credit goes to staying active in this group. It's not perfect and I have plenty of work to keep doing because 30 years of bad habits and eating disorders don't just go away, but I've made progress in leaps and bounds. > some of the changes I have made in my life, I have made slowly. And I > have made realistically. Changes I can tolerate for the rest of my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > work for me. But then, what can I put in with the ice if I can't > tolerate tap water? Anyway, that is something I am working on. Whenever I'm sick I have a hard time with water and I'm also fussy about my tap water. We have very tasty well water but sometimes I need to spike it with a little lemon juice and a packet of splenda. Signaturethe volleyballchick >I have been struggling with weight my entire life. I am so sick and > tired of being this way. I am fatter than I ever dreamed I would be. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > about phentermine, ok, I know nothing about it. What do you think of > this drug? I told my doctors to take a flying leap, though not in so many words, when they wanted to put me on drugs for high bp and cholesterol without trying exercise and diet as recommended by the American Heart Association web site for my numbers. I did it myself -- got my butt off the chair and in 2 1/2 months my numbers were normal. It took weight off too. It treats depression and diabetes and sleep apnea, prevents the top two killer cancers plus osteoporosis plus dementia. I would have been spending $1500 a year on drugs and instead I spent $100 a year on cross trainers. Can't beat that with a stick. When I was first diagnosed with high bp, diabetes, etc, The doctors had me try diet and exercise and it worked at first, but gradually got to where it wasn't enough. First, I'll apologise for the top posting. I've read thru this entire thread before responding, and want to address the OP and follow up clarifications at the same time. I looked at various information about phentermine, and am concerned that it is an "-amine", like "amphet-amine" type drug. It is physically and psychologically addictive. It stimulates the central nervous system, and one hazard in taking it is not realizing that you're tired. The pharmecological warnings for phentermine caution against taking it if you have high blood pressure, hyperthyroid, diabetes, and others that you don't mention as having. Your best resource for information about drugs and their warnings is your pharmacist; sometimes the best doctors make errors in prescribing, but working with both the doctor and the pharmacist is a good way to make sure that all of your meds are suitable for you. I'm not suggesting that you drop any meds, just that you take a hard look at them and their interactions. Fluoxetine doesn't work well with phentermine because it inhibits the matabolizing process of the phentermine, and because it raises blood serum levels of serotonin. While the Prozac hasn't been associated with lesions in heart valves or other cardio-valvular damage or disease, fenfluramine also raises the blood serum levels of serotonin and, in other ways, behaves like fluoxetine. I would particularly question the use of a drug (phentermine) that increases blood pressure and may contribute to hypertension at the same time as blood pressure lowering meds are being used. Seems like a problem waiting to happen. Small changes spread over time in your eating habits is a good choice. You basically have to re-learn what "normal" eating is *for YOU*. Your 15 year old son, who is very active in sports and is growing, needs more fuel than you do, and thus his "normal" is, as you say, much higher than yours. Likewise, the support of your husband and family in your process are extremely important. I have altered my eating habits to mostly mirror my wife's changes over the last couple years and, while I eat things that she won't or can't, I do it when she's not there to be influenced by my choice of foods. For instance, I don't sit and eat Reese's cups in front of her, or have mashed potatoes with dinner while she's continuing a low carb diet ("diet" as in what a person normally eats). That would be unkind of me at the very least. Part of the small changes you make over time might include: Get a good food scale and learn to portion your food by calorie as well as carbs and fats. Set a daily calorie intake goal (say, 2000-2500) and use FitDay to monitor yourself. In time, portion control will become "normal"; it just takes practice. Find foods you like that meet your daily needs in carbs, calorie and *flavor*; i.e. if you like brussels sprouts, a single portion of them has about 80 calories and 5 net carbs. (we've discovered that a dinner inclusive of a 6 oz. chicken breast, a single serving of Keto spaghetti, with Carb-Control alfredo sauce, broccoli with Carb-Control Chedder sauce and water is a filling, reasonably low carb/low calorie dinner) Your exercise plan sounds good, and I applaud your efforts! As time passes, you can add a bit more of this or that exercise, possibly find an activity that interests you or engages your mind while providing exercise at the same time. The poster who mentioned bicycling and Aikido is a good example of interesting exercise routines. (Aikido ain't easy just because it's theoretically "soft") ;) My wife chose a different martial art than Aikido, partly because it's more available to the whole family because I teach it. One of the drawbacks to solo exercise is measuring results; the results come, but it's sometimes hard to deep focused without others to support you while doing it, and, honestly, others to compare yourself to while you continue. This is where a good, adult oriented martial art can be of benefit, in the following ways: 1. You can set and see results from short term goals. 2. As you continue, and others begin after you, you have a basis of comparison between what *you* can do *now* versus what others of similar age, regardless of physical size, can do *now*. (my wife is amazed that she is in better shape *now* than another student twently years younger and not terribly overwight, who recently began with us.) 3. Provides increased confidence. Seeing short term goals met, finding support and entertainment among a group of people learning definate skills and being able to acqure those skills yourself, all help to increase your own self image and personal confidence. (this is a supplement to the anti-depressants NOT a replacement of them) 4. Provides stress relief. The daily frustrations that we all have can be worked out physically, leaving you more relaxed and refreshed and able to examine the causes of that stress without being wrapped up by it. 5. As a progressive exercise program, martial arts provides increasingly difficult levels of exercise. As you become somewhat comfortable at one level, you step up to the next and find new muscles, new realms of puzzles to work out, and new volumes of sweat to manufacture. One consequence of this is that, after awhile, the beginning level (where you started) will be easy and casual and won't even cause you to break a sweat. (guess what? you're now "fit"!) Don't misunderstand me, please. I know very much how important anti-depressants can be. I've been taking wellbutrin for near seven years, and was on fluoxetine (80mg/day!) before that. Exercise itself is not going to work, nor are drugs, nor are "diets" as you say. You know all that very well. You've made major advances in your efforts, you've had some strong victories lately. Your fears are not groundless, but you might consider them (as I do mine) as little demons which whisper lies to you; lies designed to undermine your efforts to improve yourself and your life. Your family clearly adores you, and your doctor is equally dedicated to your success. You are doing wonderfully well, and have a bright future that not only can you reach for, but that you can make brighter with every goal that you set and meet, every success that you have, and every new way you find to enjoy your success. Very Best Regards, mark evins www.arkungfu.com > I have been struggling with weight my entire life. I am so sick and > tired of being this way. I am fatter than I ever dreamed I would be. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > about phentermine, ok, I know nothing about it. What do you think of > this drug? |
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