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Robin Hoodia - 19 May 2005 22:42 GMT
Hi,

I'm the webmaster of http://hoodia.in and I'm looking for a weight-loss
specialist that will moderate hoodia.in's forum. This is a great income
opportunity because the moderator gets 60% of the forum's Adsense revenues.

If you're interested, please mail to weight-loss-forumNOSPAM@hoodia.in
(remove nospam), stating your interest or to request more information.

regards,

Robin.
Ignoramus19969 - 20 May 2005 01:00 GMT
Trusting a hoodia hawker to be honest with sharing google revenues,
hm, not exactly the wisest choice.

i

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Robin.

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Robin Hoodia - 20 May 2005 19:50 GMT
Hi Ignoramus, care to elaborate on hoodia hawker? I don't know what that is, but I'm intrigued.

Actually sharing Google revenues is very simple. The webmaster inserts the moderator's google_ad_client number in the ads (which the moderator can check by viewing the page's source code) so that revenues are added to the moderator's Adsense account. Then the moderator has to trust Google for pay-out, not the hoodia hawker.

What do you say, is that a fair deal, or what?

Thanks - I hope to hear from you,

Robin.

> Trusting a hoodia hawker to be honest with sharing google revenues,
> hm, not exactly the wisest choice.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> Robin.
Ignoramus32374 - 20 May 2005 20:02 GMT
> Hi Ignoramus, care to elaborate on hoodia hawker? I don't know what that =
> is, but I'm intrigued.

We had numerous sellers of various dubious weight loss pills come by,
and unfortunately most were liars.

> Actually sharing Google revenues is very simple. The webmaster inserts =
> the moderator's google_ad_client number in the ads (which the moderator =
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What do you say, is that a fair deal, or what?

That is definitely a much better deal. So, you are going to serve
dynamic pages and set google_ad_client on a random basis?

i

> Thanks - I hope to hear from you,
>
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Robin Hoodia - 20 May 2005 21:08 GMT
Weight loss has a huge potential for scam, but http://hoodia.in isn't
selling anything, just offering information. Of course it isn't
http://hoodia.in 's sole purpose, but transparancy and objectivity are among
the site's missions.

We have found that there are more sites that sell stuff than there are sites
that give objective information, the latter is what we do, not just about
hoodia. Informative internet is our motto.

>> Hi Ignoramus, care to elaborate on hoodia hawker? I don't know what that
>> =
[quoted text clipped - 119 lines]
>><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;=20
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Ignoramus32374 - 20 May 2005 21:26 GMT
> Weight loss has a huge potential for scam, but http://hoodia.in isn't
> selling anything, just offering information. Of course it isn't
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> that give objective information, the latter is what we do, not just about
> hoodia. Informative internet is our motto.

I am confused about something.

Why do you need a moderator? Can't you moderate the forum yourself?
It's not like it is overwhelmed by traffic (there is nothing in the
forum as of now). Most likely, it will remain a very lightly used
forum, at best.

On that forum, you do not even have google ads, as of now.

So, I am confused as to what is your objective regarding search for a
moderator.

My another suggestion would be to never link to link farms, as you
seem to do. This may seriously hurt your google standing.

i

>>> Hi Ignoramus, care to elaborate on hoodia hawker? I don't know what that
>>> =
[quoted text clipped - 119 lines]
>>><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;=20
>>> 223/174.8/180</FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Robin Hoodia - 21 May 2005 22:32 GMT
I need a moderator because I think it takes a person knowledgeable on weight
loss to get the forum going. I don't think people will start posting just
like that, but only if they think they will get a meaningful response.

Every forum is lightly used in the beginning, especially if it's a week old.
In my experience it's difficult to get any forum going.

There are Google ads and you don't need a microscope. But Google has
spidered yet, so the ads aren't relevant yet.

So that's what I need a moderator for, to get things going and when it's
going, to keep people happy.

As my links page expands I will distribute the links across categorized
pages and remove unrelated links with low PR transfer. That's no link
farming, but thanks for the advice :-)

I would almost say: "Trust me, I know what I'm doing".

But your previous post got me thinking. If a non-obese person creates a
website on hoodia, is that cashing in on the obesity problem? Actually, it
aren't the visitors to the site who are paying for Adsense, but the sellers
of hoodia products. Most hoodia websites try to sell hoodia, wouldn't it be
better if there were more independent and informative sites? But I admit
that my previous approach was insensitive. Obesity isn't to be taken lightly
and the obese person's interests should be central in any weight loss
related site. So get me a moderator that knows all this stuff. Don't take
this literally, though. I realize the weight loss community is close knit
and weary of outsiders that barge in and say: Hey, come and see my new
hoodia site.

>> Weight loss has a huge potential for scam, but http://hoodia.in isn't
>> selling anything, just offering information. Of course it isn't
[quoted text clipped - 158 lines]
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>>>> 223/174.8/180</FONT></BODY></HTML>
Ignoramus14511 - 22 May 2005 02:37 GMT
> I need a moderator because I think it takes a person knowledgeable on weight
> loss to get the forum going. I don't think people will start posting just
> like that, but only if they think they will get a meaningful response.

My personal opinion regarding your business venture is that it is
not likely to go anywhere.

Why would any serious person want to waste their time promoting your
forum? It does not make sense.

> Every forum is lightly used in the beginning, especially if it's a week old.
> In my experience it's difficult to get any forum going.

> There are Google ads and you don't need a microscope. But Google has
> spidered yet, so the ads aren't relevant yet.

No, googlebot spidering your website has nothing at all to do with
relevance of google ads. When users browse your pages that contain
google ads, the pages are also visited by another robot called
"Mediapartners-google", and it is that robot that retrieves these
pages and determines what ads may be relevant. That happens almost
instantly. There is almost a chinese wall between googlebot and
mediapartnets bot, according to google.

I run google ads on my site, algebra.com, and also cooldictionary.com,
and so I know what I am talking about.

> So that's what I need a moderator for, to get things going and when
> it's going, to keep people happy.

I do not think that having a "moderator" would magically create an
audience out of nothing.

> As my links page expands I will distribute the links across categorized
> pages and remove unrelated links with low PR transfer. That's no link
> farming, but thanks for the advice :-)

Beware that linkg to link farms may get you penalized up to removal
from google index. Search for "google webmaster guidelines" and follow
them to the "t".

> I would almost say: "Trust me, I know what I'm doing".
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and weary of outsiders that barge in and say: Hey, come and see my new
> hoodia site.

Well, there are plenty of slim persons who are interested in dieting
and eating less and reduction of appetite. I am one of them. I am a
formerly fat, "naturlly fat" person. I do not believe that hoodia is a
long term solution to anything, but I keep hope that one day some
pharmaceutical solution may become available.

If I understand you right, you want to create a non-selling,
informational website on hoodia. That's not a bad idea, provided that
you have references to positive as well as negative information.
Search medline for related abstracts and make a good summary of them
on your site. Perhaps wikipedia may have a few related articles, that
you can copy under their license.

I highly doubt that a forum is something to spend too much time on, at
the moment.

All in all, I would not engage in this enterprise, there are too many
hands in a plate that's too small, promoting your site is bound to be
expensive. Mentioning it here will not bring you more than a dozen
visitors. But, quite possibly, I am wrong. Good luck. Avoid any kind
of affiliate schemes, they are all ripoffs.

i

>>> Weight loss has a huge potential for scam, but http://hoodia.in isn't
>>> selling anything, just offering information. Of course it isn't
[quoted text clipped - 158 lines]
>>>>><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;=20
>>>>> 223/174.8/180</FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Ignoramus14511 - 22 May 2005 02:45 GMT
Forgot to say. Forget, for a moment, about belonging to the first page
of SERPs (search engine result pages) for "hoodia".

But if you make a superb informational website on hoodia, with a lot
of article abstracts from medline, and whatever that you can get
legally and publish, a hoodia FAQ that is factually true, and organize
it in a search engine friendly manner, then many people will come to
you when they do searches on various related terms like "hoodia blood
sugar study" or "hoodia ketosis" or "hoodia muscle loss" or who knows
what else. And they will like what they see.

That may also get you approved for yahoo directory and DMOZ.

After a year or two, you may see your standing improve greatly.

i
Robin Hoodia - 22 May 2005 17:06 GMT
Ignoramus,

I'm sorry, but we differ in opinion on SEO issues. Hoodia.in is a month old
and already #1 on MSN for "hoodia side effects" and top20 for "hoodia".
These are among the key-phrases that count in the hoodia search cat, not the
ones you mentioned....

Hoodia.in is also doing well on Yahoo, for Google it needs higher PR, but
it'll get a good PR4 from my network.

Actually hoodia is not a difficult search cat, getting in touch with the
weight loss community _is_ difficult. I'm not complaining, but the SEO thing
is the least of my worries - thanks for your concern, though....

> But if you make a superb informational website on hoodia, with a lot
> of article abstracts from medline, and whatever that you can get
> legally and publish,

I don't think people are keen on lots of technical lingo and indepth medical
stuff, but prefer a site that is simple and to the point.

> After a year or two, you may see your standing improve greatly.

According to my personal experience it's a year now, but on more competitive
cats than hoodia. I wouldn't know how long a cat like hoodia takes, I've
always been in competitive cats. MSN lets good new sites in very quickly now
and Google is "all" a matter of PR anyway.
> Forgot to say. Forget, for a moment, about belonging to the first page
> of SERPs (search engine result pages) for "hoodia".
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> i
Ignoramus13333 - 22 May 2005 18:26 GMT
> Ignoramus,
>
> I'm sorry, but we differ in opinion on SEO issues. Hoodia.in is a month old
> and already #1 on MSN for "hoodia side effects" and top20 for "hoodia".
> These are among the key-phrases that count in the hoodia search cat, not the
> ones you mentioned....

Well, MSN accounts for 10.5% of SE referred visits to my site, as
opposed to google, which accounts for over 80%. For you, it may be
different, but, apparently, the rating on MSN is less important than
rating on google.

> Hoodia.in is also doing well on Yahoo, for Google it needs higher PR, but
> it'll get a good PR4 from my network.

That's good that you have a network.

> Actually hoodia is not a difficult search cat, getting in touch with the
> weight loss community _is_ difficult. I'm not complaining, but the SEO thing
> is the least of my worries - thanks for your concern, though....

It is indeed difficult. Especially given that the weight loss is not
one, but many not so close comunities.

>> But if you make a superb informational website on hoodia, with a lot
>> of article abstracts from medline, and whatever that you can get
>> legally and publish,
>
> I don't think people are keen on lots of technical lingo and indepth
> medical stuff, but prefer a site that is simple and to the point.

A site loaded with objective information would be a welcome break from
all the hoodia hawking sites.

>> After a year or two, you may see your standing improve greatly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> new sites in very quickly now and Google is "all" a matter of PR
> anyway.

Yes, although google promises that PR will have less importance.
That's a pity to me, since I own a PR7 site from where I sell
links. That's a quick PR6 to the link buyers. Anyway, one way or
another, PR or some variation of it will remain in use...

i

>> Forgot to say. Forget, for a moment, about belonging to the first page
>> of SERPs (search engine result pages) for "hoodia".
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>
>> i

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Robin Hoodia - 22 May 2005 22:25 GMT
>> Ignoramus,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> different, but, apparently, the rating on MSN is less important than
> rating on google.

On my art sites MSN does less than10%, Wordtracker says MSN has 20% -
http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/article.php/2156431 show yet different
market shares, so indeed it seems to vary greatly from sites to site.

But if you're a new site then it's great to be appreciated by one of the big
three, even if it's the least of the three,

>> Hoodia.in is also doing well on Yahoo, for Google it needs higher PR, but
>> it'll get a good PR4 from my network.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> A site loaded with objective information would be a welcome break from
> all the hoodia hawking sites.

>>> After a year or two, you may see your standing improve greatly.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> That's a pity to me, since I own a PR7 site from where I sell
> links.

That's cool. I've thought about buying links myself. $150 p/m for a PR8
homepage link,
but then again....how many links are there on that page? PR transfer can be
unpredictable. But you'll know more about that than I do.

You must linked yourself silly to get a PR7.

That's a quick PR6 to the link buyers. Anyway, one way or
> another, PR or some variation of it will remain in use...

> i
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>>
>>> i
Ignoramus13333 - 23 May 2005 04:00 GMT
>>> Ignoramus,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> But if you're a new site then it's great to be appreciated by one of the big
> three, even if it's the least of the three,

Sadly, yahoo is now the least of the three. My last week's stats, for
example, show

All Pages Referred by Google: 37602
All Pages Referred by Yahoo: 1124
  All Pages Referred by MSN: 4542

So, yahoo is about 4 times less than MSN. Perhaps this is site
specific. MSN is second after google.

>>> According to my personal experience it's a year now, but on more
>>> competitive cats than hoodia. I wouldn't know how long a cat like
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> that page? PR transfer can be unpredictable. But you'll know more
> about that than I do.

Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
This statement is based on nothing but a "hunch", so, do not rely on
it too much (not that I thought you would).

> You must linked yourself silly to get a PR7.

Not really. The story was that I created cooldictionary.com simply
because I had almost all perl modules for it written for
algebra.com. The stupid talking robot, crosslinked webster dictionary
etc. All I had to do was register a domain name and submit it to yahoo
and DMOZ. Also wrote a piece to get classical quotes containing a
given word.

After that, embarrassingly, I almost forgot about it for about three
years, while it kept running. Then I realized that it had a PR7 and
started selling links. They are all sold, as of now, so I am not
trying to sell you anything, god forbid.

You sound like a thoughtful person. I wish you luck in your
endeavours. It is fun to create websites.

i

>> That's a quick PR6 to the link buyers. Anyway, one way or
>> another, PR or some variation of it will remain in use...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>>>>
>>>> i

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Robin Hoodia - 23 May 2005 16:34 GMT
> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
> This statement is based on nothing but a "hunch", so, do not rely on
> it too much (not that I thought you would).

Well, if my main site got PR7 it would go top10 on some additional high
volume search cats, and the extra Adsense might be worth it, but it's risky
and just too easy. I've been approached by textlinksbrokers.com to sell
links from http://paintings.name and http://prints.name , but I think
Adsense brings more.

> You sound like a thoughtful person. I wish you luck in your
> endeavours. It is fun to create websites.

Thanks, I didn't know I was talking to a programming big shot.

Good luck to you too.

>>>> Ignoramus,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> So, yahoo is about 4 times less than MSN. Perhaps this is site
> specific. MSN is second after google.

With my main site http://paintings.name , Yahoo is 25% of Google and MSN
less than 10%, so it differs per site, which is logical actually. It depends
on the way different SEs value your site.

>>>> According to my personal experience it's a year now, but on more
>>>> competitive cats than hoodia. I wouldn't know how long a cat like
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> This statement is based on nothing but a "hunch", so, do not rely on
> it too much (not that I thought you would).

Well, if paintings.name got PR7 it would go top10 on some additional high
volume search cats, and the extra Adsense might be worth it, but it's risky
and just too easy. I've been approached by textlinksbrokers.com to sell
links from http://paintings.name and http://prints.name , but I think
Adsense brings more.

>> You must linked yourself silly to get a PR7.
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> i
Ignoramus25487 - 23 May 2005 17:22 GMT
>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> textlinksbrokers.com to sell links from http://paintings.name and
> http://prints.name , but I think Adsense brings more.

Nice PR5 sites, good pictures.

I do not think that adsense and selling text links are incompatible.

i
Robin Hoodia - 23 May 2005 23:14 GMT
>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> i
Unrelated links wreak havoc on a homepage's relevance with respect to
targeted key-phrases. Since a couple there is a neo-nazi group that sends
propaganda-emails in German to sites and use my sites' emailaddresses as
their reply-to address, so in order to uphold my reputation I've had to add
a link to a page where I explain what's going on and you can see the effect
in the SERPs immediately. Now I've javascripted the links, hoping that SEs
are still dumb enough not to be able to see these links. Technically this is
spam. Yesterday I lost a lot of ranking on Google, hopefully it's a
fluctuation, not a penalty.

The loss of ranking could also be a consequence of Adsense. I recently
managed to double my homepage's clickrate. This may have resulted in an
increase of 5%of the number of people that leave the site in less than 30
secs, which may have an adverse effect on the site's ranking.

By the way, do you also own algebra.com? (I'm trying to figure out what Ché
has to do with linear algebra -:)
Ignoramus25487 - 23 May 2005 23:27 GMT
>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Unrelated links wreak havoc on a homepage's relevance with respect to
> targeted key-phrases.

Do you mean key-phrases for selecting ads to be shown?

> Since a couple there is a neo-nazi group that sends
> propaganda-emails in German to sites and use my sites' emailaddresses as
> their reply-to address, so in order to uphold my reputation I've had to add
> a link to a page where I explain what's going on and you can see the effect
> in the SERPs immediately.

That's a Nazi virus, it uses everyone's email addresses, including
mine. I get return emails that say that my (forged) pro-nazi messages
could not be delivered.

> Now I've javascripted the links, hoping that SEs
> are still dumb enough not to be able to see these links.

I do this all the time. I have a wikipedia mirror ran in a weird way,
wiki pages are in the sections where they belong by theme, and as you
browse them, you stay in the directory where you started. Since I do
not want SE' to index dozens of copies of wikipedia, I javascript
these links.

> Technically this is spam. Yesterday I lost a lot of ranking on
> Google, hopefully it's a fluctuation, not a penalty..

I am confused, just what is spam? I doubt that german emails could get
you penalized. Everyone's name is forged. Google seems to have changed
its PR algorithm recently.

> The loss of ranking could also be a consequence of Adsense. I
> recently managed to double my homepage's clickrate. This may have
> resulted in an increase of 5%of the number of people that leave the
> site in less than 30 secs, which may have an adverse effect on the
> site's ranking.

I think that these things are unrelated. Congrats on doubling your
adsense  CTR, mine runs about 1. Doubling your CTR is a real feat!

> By the way, do you also own algebra.com? (I'm trying to figure out
> what Ché has to do with linear algebra -:)

Yes, I own algebra.com, since 1995, I am the original owner.
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Robin Hoodia - 24 May 2005 21:33 GMT
>>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Do you mean key-phrases for selecting ads to be shown?

No, for a site's ranking on search engines. If you optimize your homepage
for "algebra online", than a link called "dictionary" will make a SE wonder:
is this page (partly) about dictionaries? Then it will get some ranking on
"dictionaries" and lose some on "online algebra". So selling textlinks will
cost you some traffic, which may be worth it...

>> Since a couple there is a neo-nazi group that sends
>> propaganda-emails in German to sites and use my sites' emailaddresses as
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> mine. I get return emails that say that my (forged) pro-nazi messages
> could not be delivered.

Oh dear...I hardly ever chat or bbs anymore so I don't know what the heck is
going on anymore. Thanks for the tip.

>> Now I've javascripted the links, hoping that SEs
>> are still dumb enough not to be able to see these links.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I am confused, just what is spam?

I'm referring to javascript links. If you're showing your visitors something
different than the SEs, isn't that spam? It boosts your ranking by deceiving
a SE.
Anyway, my ranking has gotten back to normal. I have to learn not not freak
out every time I drop a few places. You've seen it all before, right? Cuz
you're an Internet pioneer. You remind me of my Art.net site mistress Lile
Elam. You're technical folks that laid the Internet's foundations in the
early and mid-90s, own some valuable domains with high PR, high ranking
html2 websites with low clickrates. Lile charges her members $60 a year - I
tell her, babe you can make a fortune on Adsense by doing this or that, but
nobody seems to understand Adsense's potential.

I doubt that german emails could get
> you penalized. Everyone's name is forged. Google seems to have changed
> its PR algorithm recently.

>> The loss of ranking could also be a consequence of Adsense. I
>> recently managed to double my homepage's clickrate. This may have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I think that these things are unrelated. Congrats on doubling your
> adsense  CTR, mine runs about 1. Doubling your CTR is a real feat!

I can tell you how to do it, but walls have ears here.

>> By the way, do you also own algebra.com? (I'm trying to figure out
>> what Ché has to do with linear algebra -:)
>
> Yes, I own algebra.com, since 1995, I am the original owner.

That's very cool. Very content rich site, with a killer domain. I have to
seek refuge in ccTLDs, like science.sc and bio.io. Great domains, but no dot
coms, obviously.
Ignoramus19430 - 25 May 2005 00:40 GMT
>>>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> "dictionaries" and lose some on "online algebra". So selling textlinks will
> cost you some traffic, which may be worth it...

That's an interesting thought. I never considered this possibility.
Thanks for expanding my knowledge.

>>> Since a couple there is a neo-nazi group that sends
>>> propaganda-emails in German to sites and use my sites' emailaddresses as
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Oh dear...I hardly ever chat or bbs anymore so I don't know what the heck is
> going on anymore. Thanks for the tip.

I did not know that either, I asked elsewhere and that's how I learned.

>>> Now I've javascripted the links, hoping that SEs
>>> are still dumb enough not to be able to see these links.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> something different than the SEs, isn't that spam? It boosts your
> ranking by deceiving a SE.

you can show them the same thing:

<A HREF="http://search.engine.sees/this/page"
  onClick="parent.location=http://users.go/to/this/page">My Link</A>

> Anyway, my ranking has gotten back to normal. I have to learn not
> not freak out every time I drop a few places. You've seen it all
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you can make a fortune on Adsense by doing this or that, but nobody
> seems to understand Adsense's potential.

Adsense offers almost pre-crash CPM. It is amazing.

>> I think that these things are unrelated. Congrats on doubling your
>> adsense  CTR, mine runs about 1. Doubling your CTR is a real feat!
>
> I can tell you how to do it, but walls have ears here.

Then it's okay, I would not want to do anything non-kosher, there is
too much at stake.

>>> By the way, do you also own algebra.com? (I'm trying to figure out
>>> what Ché has to do with linear algebra -:)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> seek refuge in ccTLDs, like science.sc and bio.io. Great domains, but no dot
> coms, obviously.

It is definitely not as content rich as I would like. I recently
created a CMS for writing lessons and solvers, hopefully it will
improve the situation.

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Robin Hoodia - 25 May 2005 19:29 GMT
>>> I think that these things are unrelated. Congrats on doubling your
>>> adsense  CTR, mine runs about 1. Doubling your CTR is a real feat!
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> Then it's okay, I would not want to do anything non-kosher, there is
> too much at stake.

Iggy, once and for all, I'm not eatable, but quite kosher. With walls have
ears I mean that webmasters usually try to keep their knowlegde to
themselves, which is why SEO forums are the strangest forums on the net,
with a lot of talk about everything but SEO.

Talking about forums....it seems to me that the only way sawdust-hoodia
brands can be told apart from legitimate brands is by creating an
independent forum that collects user-experience. There is one successful
hoodia forum right now and a fine forum it is, but it is moderated by a
hoodia vendor. Is there no-one here that wants to help me get an independent
hoodia forum going? I really need to find someone that has something
sensible to say about weight-loss, because that's the only way the get the
forum going. People will only post if they expect to get some meaningful
response.

I don't pretend to become the champion of bamboozled hoodia buyers, but
getting an independent hoodia forum going simply seems like a good idea. Why
am I getting so little response? Am I pushing the wrong buttons?

>>>>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
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>
> Adsense offers almost pre-crash CPM. It is amazing.

>>>> By the way, do you also own algebra.com? (I'm trying to figure out
>>>> what Ché has to do with linear algebra -:)
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> created a CMS for writing lessons and solvers, hopefully it will
> improve the situation.
Annie Benson Lennaman - 29 May 2005 14:29 GMT
> I don't pretend to become the champion of bamboozled hoodia buyers, but
> getting an independent hoodia forum going simply seems like a good idea. Why
> am I getting so little response? Am I pushing the wrong buttons?

  Well, given all the hoopla around Hoodia, and also considering that
from what I have heard the stuff may only work when eaten in its raw
form, not as a pill or whatnot, then yeah, I have to say that forum
devoted to it sounds a bit, I dunno, unnecessary to me. I mean, if it
works as advertised, then everyone and their mom would be using it, or
at least talking about it.  If it doesn't, then why would a legitimate
forum cater to the subject?

  I dunno.  A forum devoted to debunking or verifying all the various
alleged weight loss aids being touted might be interested.  I would
certainly look into it.  But one that just focuses on a dubious product
that is heavily promoted on the web?  Yeah, it pushes a big red "wrong
button" for me.

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Annie

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Marten Jansen - 30 May 2005 20:43 GMT
>> I don't pretend to become the champion of bamboozled hoodia buyers, but
>> getting an independent hoodia forum going simply seems like a good idea.
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> at least talking about it.  If it doesn't, then why would a legitimate
> forum cater to the subject?

If it doesn't work, then the hoodia subject is dead and I'll be deep-sixing
my site.

If it does work then a forum is needed. There is a hoodia forum that has
some 1400 messages, but it isn't independent. My site gets hit on "hoodia
forum" so apparently people want to talk about it and that's inherent to
weight loss, I think. There is no miracle cure - it's also a habit,
right???? Appetite suppressants are just aids. Changing habits is changing
your life and people will want to share experiences. If the're taking
hoodia, they'll want to do it on a hoodia forum, right?

>   I dunno.  A forum devoted to debunking or verifying all the various
> alleged weight loss aids being touted might be interested.  I would
> certainly look into it.  But one that just focuses on a dubious product
> that is heavily promoted on the web?  Yeah, it pushes a big red "wrong
> button" for me.

Interesting, but I don't get it. If you'd consider taking hoodia, would you
feel more comfortable on a forum that discusses all weight loss product
instead of just hoodia?
A hoodia forum with a wrong button - aren't you overdoing the moralizing a
tad?

>> I don't pretend to become the champion of bamboozled hoodia buyers, but
>> getting an independent hoodia forum going simply seems like a good idea.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> that is heavily promoted on the web?  Yeah, it pushes a big red "wrong
> button" for me.
Annie Benson Lennaman - 31 May 2005 03:44 GMT
> Interesting, but I don't get it. If you'd consider taking hoodia, would you
> feel more comfortable on a forum that discusses all weight loss product
> instead of just hoodia?
> A hoodia forum with a wrong button - aren't you overdoing the moralizing a
> tad?

    Moralizing?  You asked why you weren't getting any much in the way
of responses, if you were pushing any red buttons.  I answer in the
affirmative, and suddenly I'm moralizing?  If you didn't consider that
the answer might be "yes", then why in the world did you ask the
question?  

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Annie

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Marten Jansen - 31 May 2005 16:03 GMT
Signature

regards,

Marten Jansen
Paintings.name

>
>> Interesting, but I don't get it. If you'd consider taking hoodia, would
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> of responses, if you were pushing any red buttons.  I answer in the
> affirmative, and suddenly I'm moralizing?

Yes, but if the arguments are beyond me, then what I'm supposed to think? I
suppose only few people want to moderate a forum, and if you mention an
income opportunity, then some will cry out: FRAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUD!!!!!!!!!

I guess I barked up the wrong tree. Sorry, dear.

 If you didn't consider that
> the answer might be "yes", then why in the world did you ask the
> question?
Annie Benson Lennaman - 31 May 2005 19:09 GMT
> Yes, but if the arguments are beyond me, then what I'm supposed to think? I
> suppose only few people want to moderate a forum, and if you mention an
> income opportunity, then some will cry out: FRAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUD!!!!!!!!!

  How are the the arguments beyond you?  You're the one trying to start
up the site.  But I will be happy to give you some pointers about the
subject on which you might want to think.

  One thing, an important thing, is that the diet industry often preys
on fat people.  There are plenty of very expensive diet products out
there that simply don't work, but are heavily advertised because the
manufacturers know that many of us fat people are desperate to lose
weight, and will spend a large chunk of our disposable income if we
think that would help.  Keep this thought in your head if you really
have any interest in understanding the response us fat people are giving
you.  Like a deer in hunting season, we tend to be a bit gun shy.

  You keep saying that you are only targeting people who want to take
hoodia.  Tell me, why do you suppose anyone would want to take hoodia?
Because it makes their aura brighter?  Because it will make their hair
grow faster?  Or is it because it is said that it will lead to weight
loss?  If it works, and that is a big, big if, it is only an means to an
end.  People are not interested in taking hoodia per se, they are
interested in losing weight.

  There are, as you know, many many websites that sell hoodia.  There
is no evidence that hoodia in pill or supplement form works for weight
control.  You are trying to engineer an income opportunity from
discussion about this product.  If you are trying to make money from
something that doesn't work, then yeah, I smell fraud.  

  Of course, you don't know me from Adam.  I might be some internet
kook that rants about everything and makes no more sense then the guys
who wander the streets of some large cities, holding very loud one sided
conversations.  But then you might want to look at the fact that you
really aren't getting much interest here in your little project, and try
to come up with plausible ideas as to why that might be.  It's easy to
draw conclusions such as "Fat people are mean, stupid, paranoid,
ignorant..." or what have you.  But is that really going to help you in
your quest to promote this forum of yours?  If my response about the
"red button" seems so off base to you, please tell me what you think is
going on here.

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Annie

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Nunya B. - 31 May 2005 19:23 GMT
>> Yes, but if the arguments are beyond me, then what I'm supposed to think?
>> I
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> "red button" seems so off base to you, please tell me what you think is
> going on here.

Very well said Annie. It seems we have had quite the plethora of people
coming through here lately who can't seem to figure out why we don't drop to
our knees and thank our makers that they have entered into our lives to
enlighten us.
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the volleyballchick

Ignoramus15059 - 31 May 2005 19:26 GMT
> conversations.  But then you might want to look at the fact that you
> really aren't getting much interest here in your little project, and try
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "red button" seems so off base to you, please tell me what you think is
> going on here.

That was a very good post, but I must add one thing. The OP, if he is
trying to be successful with his website, must operate in the world of
reality. And if, in the world of reality, fat people are "mean,
stupid, paranoid, ignorant" (which I personally do not believe to be
the case), then that's the reality to deal with as far as his forum is
concerned. Slapping such labels on fat people is only useful to the
extent that these labels reflect the truth AND help him make the right
decisions.

The reality, as I understand it, is that people are divided into
suckers and non suckers.

Suckers are not interested in a web forum that makes an attempt to
discuss hoodia in an unbiased manner, without influence of hoodia
sellers. They are desperate and buy on the spur of the moment.

The non-suckers, at the present time, note that there is precious
little evidence that hoodia works (one medline article that is only
marginally related, that mentions hoodia), and plenty of bullshit.

They are, therefore, not interested in hoodia in general and,
therefore, not interested in a formu that helps decide which brands of
hoodia are "pure" and which are not pure.

The more I think about this issue, the more I am becoming convinced
that the real opportunity in hoodia websites may lie in a well
researched anti-hoodia website. Plenty of people would want to link to
it.

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Marten Jansen - 25 May 2005 19:33 GMT
Maybe it helps if I use my real name.....

>>>>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
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> created a CMS for writing lessons and solvers, hopefully it will
> improve the situation.
Ignoramus11475 - 25 May 2005 19:49 GMT
> Maybe it helps if I use my real name.....

Marten, maybe you could educate me a little bit, are there any studies
proving that hoodia actually creates a sustainable weight loss?

I checked medline for "hoodia", and found only one, relatively
irrelevant article about IV injections of some hoodia extract.

i

>>>>>>>> Not really, I do not know much abouit link selling. To me, buying
>>>>>>>> links is too expensive for an informational (non-selling) website.
[quoted text clipped - 104 lines]
>> created a CMS for writing lessons and solvers, hopefully it will
>> improve the situation.

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Marten Jansen - 25 May 2005 20:27 GMT
> Marten, maybe you could educate me a little bit, are there any studies
> proving that hoodia actually creates a sustainable weight loss?

That's exactly why I keep nagging about an independent hoodia forum. There
is no scientific proof, just many people that say it helps them lose weight
and some that say it does nothing for them.

It's funny, I've been through similar discussions on very different topics.
The fact that there is no scientific proof doesn't mean that the whole topic
should be laid to rest. On the contrary....as soon as there is scientific
proof FOR or AGAINST, then that ends the debate. As long as there isn't,
then user experience is the only thing that can help people choose a
legitimate brand. Please read http://hoodia.in/hoodia-weight-loss-pills.php.

I'm no hoodia guru, just someone that passes on what he hears, and tries,
pretentious or not, to organise a brand-independent hoodia debate.

>> Maybe it helps if I use my real name.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 120 lines]
>>> created a CMS for writing lessons and solvers, hopefully it will
>>> improve the situation.
Robin Hoodia - 21 May 2005 22:03 GMT
Actually, you were right. I meant no harm, but I'm just beginning the
understand the sensitivities involved.

>> Hi Ignoramus, care to elaborate on hoodia hawker? I don't know what that
>> =
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>><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt;=20
>> 223/174.8/180</FONT></BODY></HTML>
 
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