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diagnosis? compulsive overeating/bingeing

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Her Subj. - 30 Oct 2005 21:37 GMT
I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
back to 140lbs now, whereas I was at my lowest at 131 two months ago,
standing at 5'9"). i binge when i feel like i need to "conquer" things.
in other words, objects (in this case, food) need to be touched by me
or i feel very uncomfortable with not having had conquered it. and i
don't even eat just a little, i totally gorge. for example, this
morning i had oatmeal AND half of a game hen. then i'll eat very weird
things like yoghourt afterwards and even spoon a fingerfull of nutella
and barbeque sauce --stuff i'd find repulsive on any normal day.

i try to return back to normal eating the next day only to binge one or
two days later. i don't think i'm bingeing because i feel hungry (in
fact, during my binges I am rather full), but it may be linked to
something more emotional. i tend to binge when i am bored and feel
unaccomplished. i know this is all mental and i know i can control it,
but my hands and mouth take over my brain when i'm in binge mode.
something is terribly wrong.

has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
with this.
Nunya B. - 30 Oct 2005 21:57 GMT
>I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
> acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
> with this.

Yes, I've done similar things.  I recommend a few resources to read that
have helped me:
Overcoming Binge Eating by Christopher Fairburn
Life is Hard, Food is Easy by Linda Spangle
It Was Food vs. Me...and I Won by Nancy Goodman

It's not something you just wake up one day and stop doing so don't listen
to those who know nothing about it and tell you to just to stop.  You do
need to decide that you want to stop and then go through the process of
dealing somehow with the emotions that drive you to doing this.  It's not
easy and it's work, but it can be done.

Professional help is also available but difficult to find someone who
specializes in eating disorders.  Many binge eaters and bulimics tend to do
better with self-help.
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the volleyballchick

Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 04:07 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions on the reads.

I agree with you in regard that it definitely is not something one
can't "just stop" doing. It's like telling an alcoholic that they just
have to stop drinking and they will be cured. It's linked to very
intricate and sensitive issues.
Nunya B. - 31 Oct 2005 04:13 GMT
> Thanks for the suggestions on the reads.
>
> I agree with you in regard that it definitely is not something one
> can't "just stop" doing. It's like telling an alcoholic that they just
> have to stop drinking and they will be cured. It's linked to very
> intricate and sensitive issues.

If there's anything more you want to discuss about it feel free.  If you're
more comfortable doing it privately, this email works.  There are a few
other people on this group that have experienced binge eating and understand
it.  It's a lot more than just eating a bunch of food.  Binges are in the
eye of the beholder because of the emotional and control issues involved.
I've found that discussing it here is not always fruitful because it's not
well understood by those who don't experience it.
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the volleyballchick

Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 08:03 GMT
Thanks, Nunya B. I know what you're talking about re: people who like
to make quick assumptions based on whatever little information they
have. I recall Ig once told me something about my period, because, of
course, he must know all the details of my cycle and how it relates to
my food intake.
Nunya B. - 31 Oct 2005 14:42 GMT
> Thanks, Nunya B. I know what you're talking about re: people who like
> to make quick assumptions based on whatever little information they
> have. I recall Ig once told me something about my period, because, of
> course, he must know all the details of my cycle and how it relates to
> my food intake.

There certainly are folks out there who will take a little bit of info and
then make assumptions.  The thing is eating disorders, including binge
eating or compulsive eating - not just anorexia and bulimia, are seriously
misunderstood.  The amount of misinformation given out is astounding and
yes, there are people in this group who have never had a clue no matter how
many times it's been explained.
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Ignoramus8862 - 31 Oct 2005 14:56 GMT
> Thanks, Nunya B. I know what you're talking about re: people who like
> to make quick assumptions based on whatever little information they
> have. I recall Ig once told me something about my period, because, of
> course, he must know all the details of my cycle and how it relates to
> my food intake.

Let's see...

On Aug 8, you posted an article
1123510308.490898.314280@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com. There, you said
that you have not had a period since June 20.

I replied to that, quite sensibly, that "it was not that long".

Very soon afterwards, your periods, in fact, resumed.

I cannot see how I was so terribly wrong about that issue. No amount
of assumptions could change the fact that the maximum delay of your
period was on the order of 3 weeks.

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Nunya B. - 31 Oct 2005 15:21 GMT
>> Thanks, Nunya B. I know what you're talking about re: people who like
>> to make quick assumptions based on whatever little information they
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> of assumptions could change the fact that the maximum delay of your
> period was on the order of 3 weeks.

Right or wrong this is another example of how you were your normal
obnoxious, know-it-all self thus no one cared what you had to say.  It's
been pointed out to you for years and you choose to ignore because as usual
you are always right and everyone else is always wrong.
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Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 17:24 GMT
Periods vary month by month and are not cut-and-dry.
Ignoramus8862 - 31 Oct 2005 17:37 GMT
> Periods vary month by month and are not cut-and-dry.

Exactly, I agree with you 100%.
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Carol Frilegh - 31 Oct 2005 18:20 GMT
> > Periods vary month by month and are not cut-and-dry.

Even if they are cut, they are not dry! (Couldn't resist :-)
Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 18:57 GMT
Wanwo - 30 Oct 2005 23:11 GMT
I'm a weekend binger. Like you I'm not overweight. In fact I'm quite trim
now. I have my total weekly calories under control. Its just that on Sat/Sun
I'll eat more than half my weekly calories. And so Mon-Fri I need to eat
fairly lean, which is generally not a struggle but I realize that by
restricting myself during the week my body will start craving certain foods
and this will trigger another weekend binge.

People will say eating moderately is best, i.e. a similar amount of calories
each day. I'm not against that but I'm also not against varying my calories
day to day. I like the idea of listening to my body. Some days it wants to
eat more, other days less depending on what I'm doing or what mood I'm in. I
imagine that primitive man/woman may have had to eat lean some days, but
then after a successful hunt could make up for it with a bit of feasting.

The problem with this kind of eating though is during these weekend binges I
tend to eat a lot of carbs, and quite often not the good kind. So the
QUALITY of my diet is being reduced by eating this way.

I don't really know the solution. It's something I'm still working on. I
usually overeat in front of the TV. Cutting that down may well work for me.
I think the main thing will be my determination to overcome it. In fact your
post has got me thinking I really need to lick this problem and now rather
than just drifting along week after week. So thx for bringing up the subject
and good luck!
Nunya B. - 30 Oct 2005 23:40 GMT
> People will say eating moderately is best, i.e. a similar amount of
> calories each day. I'm not against that but I'm also not against varying
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> some days, but then after a successful hunt could make up for it with a
> bit of feasting.

I also vary my calories through the week with light days, "eating more" days
mostly due to hunger, and then splurges which are always planned.  There
isn't really anything wrong with it as it seems like what most "normal"
people do when it comes to eating based on the observations I've made of my
naturally thin friends.

> The problem with this kind of eating though is during these weekend binges
> I tend to eat a lot of carbs, and quite often not the good kind. So the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> now rather than just drifting along week after week. So thx for bringing
> up the subject and good luck!

If you are somehow not able to control *what* you're eating then you might
want to look at how boredom (watching TV, etc.) is affecting your choices.
The book that I've been reading lately "Life is Hard, Food is Easy" deals
with stuff like boredom and stress and "innocuous" seeming emotional eating
in addition to the more extreme stuff.

Sadly many people live such a black and white life that when they hear
emotional eating they think only of the person (usually female) being overly
emotional and downing a pint of ice cream while crying over her latest
problem.  Simple emotions like a frustrating day at work can lead to an
extra snack of some type of comfort food and over time it adds up.

I too am glad this subject came up because it certainly isn't treated
seriously enough.  Dealing with the emotional aspect of my eating has made
me feel so much better, stronger and in control.
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Wanwo - 31 Oct 2005 09:42 GMT
>If you are somehow not able to control *what* you're eating then you might
want to look at how boredom (watching TV, etc.) is affecting your choices.

I don't know that it is boredom. I either watch TV because I'm interested in
the program or if I'm watching crap it's because I don't want to do anything
that requires effort. Maybe that is boredom(?). I'll check on that book. Thx
Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 04:16 GMT
> I'm a weekend binger. Like you I'm not overweight. In fact I'm quite trim
> now. I have my total weekly calories under control. Its just that on Sat/Sun
> I'll eat more than half my weekly calories. And so Mon-Fri I need to eat
> fairly lean, which is generally not a struggle but I realize that by
> restricting myself during the week my body will start craving certain foods
> and this will trigger another weekend binge.

I eat rather normally during the week, but I do the occassional
mini-binge, only to go on an all-out binge (around 2500-3000 calories
per day) during the weekends, holidays, or when I'm away from my home
(like I am right now). I don't think my bingeing has to do with the
fact that I'm denying myself certain foods or that I am not eating
enough calories during the week. I think it has to do more with me
being unfulfilled about something --and I am not sure what this thing
is.

> I don't really know the solution. It's something I'm still working on. I
> usually overeat in front of the TV. Cutting that down may well work for me.
> I think the main thing will be my determination to overcome it. In fact your
> post has got me thinking I really need to lick this problem and now rather
> than just drifting along week after week. So thx for bringing up the subject
> and good luck!

I no longer own a TV and I never watch television, so I don't have
opportunities to eat in front of the television. However, I am needing
to write a lot of things for work and am putting it off and instead
I'll spend two hours bingeing. I'm glad to have contributed to this
group with this topic. I want to find a solution.
Doug Lerner - 31 Oct 2005 00:56 GMT
On 10/31/05 5:37 AM, in article
1130704628.662543.322620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Her Subj."
<hersubjectivity@yahoo.com> wrote:

> has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
> with this.

When I am not dieting I binge eat regularly. I would eat even when not
hungry. Since you are not overweight your problem might be a bit different,
but I think most of the very overweight people here have experienced binge
eating.

doug
Matthew Venhaus - 31 Oct 2005 01:24 GMT
>I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
> acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> things like yoghourt afterwards and even spoon a fingerfull of nutella
> and barbeque sauce --stuff i'd find repulsive on any normal day.

You aren't giving all the quantities, but it really doesn't seem like this
is what I would call gorging. Half a game hen and a bowl of oatmeal sounds
like a good--although untraditional--breakfast. Probably under 400 calories.
How soon afterwards did you eat the other stuff? And how much? With typical
quantities it still doesn't sound like a huge amount of food. What would be
a normal day for you?

> i try to return back to normal eating the next day only to binge one or
> two days later. i don't think i'm bingeing because i feel hungry (in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> but my hands and mouth take over my brain when i'm in binge mode.
> something is terribly wrong.

This is making a little more sense. You are full, but continue to eat for
some emotional reason, because you are bored, or feel unaccomplished.

> has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
> with this.

Boredom eating-yes. I use deflection of some sort. Go to the gym, practice
piano or guitar, take a walk, etc.

Signature

Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.

Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 08:08 GMT
I wrote down what I ate today (in no particular order):

piece mozzarella cheese
oatmeal
cottage cheese
four strawberries
4 T peanut butter
2 T nutella
6oz chicken
veggies
granola + 1/2 yoghourt
yoghourt
10 almonds and walnuts
banana cream pudding
quick oatmeal
1 bag of candied almonds (those $2 bags one gets on the streets of new
york)
1 serving of indian food from whole foods
1 oz granola
10 almonds
2 spoons of ice cream
3 tea sandwiches
1/2 scone
3 bites of mixed desserts
3 spoonfuls of sauerkraut
2 pickles
1 T bbq sauce

I hate half of this list probably in the afternoon, whereas the first
half was before 7am. each time the food was consumed with 3 hours. i
ate until i felt totally uncomfortable. a normal day for me would be
around 1500 calories. i think i did well over 3000 today. can you
estimate based on the amount i specified?
Matthew Venhaus - 31 Oct 2005 18:28 GMT
> I wrote down what I ate today (in no particular order):
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> around 1500 calories. i think i did well over 3000 today. can you
> estimate based on the amount i specified?

I think your estimate of over 3000 is reasonable and some of the stuff
listed does look like rather pointless eating. I guess what we would
need to figure out is what is leading you to eat each item listed.
Some "non-diet" food exploration is to be expected by a "foodie" in a
culinary haven like NYC but some of the foods just don't match that
expectation.

I am no psychologist, and I don't really have any knowledge about
binge eating but it looks like a lot of your snacking is on crunchy
items. Perhaps while you are working on the "fix your head" front, you
could reach for crunchy, salty vegetables instead of nuts and granola.
I also notice a few sweet, creamy snacks. Perhaps fat-free, no added
sugar yogurts and sugar-free puddings could be substituted for them.
But I wouldn't do this if some of the more knowledgable posters on the
binge eating front think that it would be a hinderance to dealing with
your psychological problems with food.

--
Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.
Nunya B. - 31 Oct 2005 18:50 GMT
>> I wrote down what I ate today (in no particular order):
>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Matthew
> Slow and steady wins the race.

Turns out that sometimes when you reach for something crunchy it's due to a
negative emotion like stress or anger.  I substituted my tortilla chip
massacres after work with single serving whole grain crackers, soy crisps or
sugar free chewy candies I get from WW that just keep me chewing and
chewing.  Soft foods don't do it, even gum.  It's a normal snack time for me
since it's 3 hours after lunch and another 2 until supper.  I just made the
snack healthier, planned and fitting the mood.  Helps me decompress on the
way to the gym :)

I do recommend the book on emotional eating, it really did open my eyes to a
few things.
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the volleyballchick

Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 18:56 GMT
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Matthew. You are right in that
a lot of the food I consumed is really "non-diet" food. I mean, the bbq
sauce I had was bottled and straight out of the fridge. And there is
really no reason to take in sauerkraut that's been sitting in a jar in
said fridge for god knows how long. A lot of my exploration isn't
really "foodie"-oriented (although I am a huge foodie), rather, it's
just pointless eating for the sake of eating. It has something to do
with looking for a taste but not being able to find it (or just wanting
to "conquer" food).

I have a really strange method of eating certain foods where I take
half a bite of something that's in a bag and leave the other half back
in the bag. For example, if I have a bag of almonds, I'll go through
each and every almond and eat half of the almond, dropping the other
half of the almond back into the bag. I'm then left with an entire bag
of half-bitten almonds. Sometimes I'm interested in finishing what I
started, but I'm usually satisfied with "marking" each almond with my
consumption.

This is indeed entirely psychological, I think. A lot of people
describe me as "svelte," but this bingeing thing is a real issue.
Her Subj. - 31 Oct 2005 08:09 GMT
I wrote down what I ate today (in no particular order):

piece mozzarella cheese
oatmeal
cottage cheese
four strawberries
4 T peanut butter
2 T nutella
6oz chicken
veggies
granola + 1/2 yoghourt
yoghourt
10 almonds and walnuts
banana cream pudding
quick oatmeal
1 bag of candied almonds (those $2 bags one gets on the streets of new
york)
1 serving of indian food from whole foods
1 oz granola
10 almonds
2 spoons of ice cream
3 tea sandwiches
1/2 scone
3 bites of mixed desserts
3 spoonfuls of sauerkraut
2 pickles
1 T bbq sauce

I hate half of this list probably in the afternoon, whereas the first
half was before 7am. each time the food was consumed with 3 hours. i
ate until i felt totally uncomfortable. a normal day for me would be
around 1500 calories. i think i did well over 3000 today. can you
estimate based on the amount i specified?
Ignoramus26744 - 31 Oct 2005 01:57 GMT
People on the Internet love to give diagnoses, but they are rarely
correct. Check out the definition of binging and see if it applies to
you. Do you eat until you get so full that you are uncomfortable
physically?

Half a chicken (admittedly, with nothing else) is my regular lunch,
and my weight is only 23% more than yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge

i
Nunya B. - 31 Oct 2005 02:25 GMT
> People on the Internet love to give diagnoses, but they are rarely
> correct. Check out the definition of binging and see if it applies to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> i

It looks like you didn't even read your own cite.  Even wikipedia says that
toe does not need to be uncomfortably full to have had a binge. Wikipedia,
while entertaining and informative, is not necessarily a reliable source.
It's only as reliable as the last person to post to it. Even a high school
teacher wouldn't allow it as a valid citation.  In this case it's a good
start.

To the OP: when I mentioned people who really have no clue what binge eating
is, this is the guy I was warning you about.
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joanne - 31 Oct 2005 04:41 GMT
> Wikipedia, while entertaining and informative, is not necessarily
> a reliable source. It's only as reliable as the last person to post
> to it. Even a high school  teacher wouldn't allow it as a valid
> citation.

A more reliable source perhaps would be the "Something Fishy" website
which deals with an array of eating disorders:
http://www.something-fishy.org/whatarethey/be.php

joanne
Cubit - 31 Oct 2005 02:07 GMT
I've never been a binger.  My 1st thought is that your body must be short on
something.

> I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
> acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
> with this.
Ignoramus26744 - 31 Oct 2005 05:10 GMT
HS, one more suggestion, somewhat along the lines of what Cubit
mentioned. You are eating relatively low fat and a lot of carbs and
are feeling hungry. That is not very unusual. It is worthwhile to
explore if eating low carb and high fat would take care of your
hunger. It worked for numerous people. That way you could eat game
hens and such, much more often, and not be hungry, which is not at all
bad.

i
Beverly - 31 Oct 2005 14:48 GMT
> HS, one more suggestion, somewhat along the lines of what Cubit
> mentioned. You are eating relatively low fat and a lot of carbs and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> i

I don't believe HS mentioned anything about 'feeling hungry'.  In fact,
she stated she continued to eat until she felt uncomfortable.

I don't know too much about binge eating except from what my friends
who suffer from the disorder have told me,  but I do recall it doesn't
have too much to do with actual hunger.
janice - 31 Oct 2005 09:52 GMT
>I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
>acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
>with this.

I've suffered with this sort of problem for most of my adult life, and
I have to say that although it's not nearly as bad as it used to be
all the various interventions and strategies I've tried (and there
have been many) haven't really made it go away completely.

I recognise some of the behaviour you describe, with variations.  I
have had long periods of what I call "remission" when I've managed to
not binge for up to 6 or 7 months, but the behaviour is always lurking
somewhere in the background waiting to return.    I can trace the
origins of my binge eating to reaction to the stupid semi starvation
diets I followed when I was in my late teens, but I realise the
reasons are more complex than this and that people can continue to
binge for reasons that may not be related to the reasons they
originally displayed the behaviour.

Nowadays at least it's recognised as an eating disorder and there are
a number of books and resources that address the problem.  When it
happened to me in the '60s I thought I was the only person in the
world who had ever behaved like this.

I don't see at all what binge eating has to do with fat acceptance,
except that it's quite possible that  if I wasn't continually striving
to lose weight I would be less likely to binge at times - indeed this
is one suggested approach for dealing with binge eating, but I've
never been able to let go of the dieting enough to trust this.   For
me, bingeing has resulted in much bigger fluctuations in weight than
what you are describing.  I absolutely agree that it's all in the
head. It has very little to do with hunger for me, too, although I do
feel a strong sense of deprivation (quite different from hunger) when
I'm restricting my food intake - even on a very healthy diet of 1500
calories with no foods banned - and I think this probably does have
something to do with it.

People mean different things when they talk about binge eating - you
can tell that by the way that some people refer to it here.  It's
quite different from merely being a bit greedy or overindulging.
Although I wouldn't regard Wikipedia as an authoritative source for
medical information, most of the bullet points listed to describe
binge eating apply to me.   I don't normally count calories when I go
into binge mode,  but I made myself do this once or twice and for me
it can mean around 5000 calories or more on a "bad" day.  I don't
think we know how many people suffer from the problem, because part of
the behaviour can be intense secrecy so that even those closest to you
don't know what's going on

I hope you find some advice here to help you, but in my view the
number of solutions is as great as the number of reasons individuals
binge in the first place and ultimately the solution needs to come
from within.

janice
Marie - 31 Oct 2005 16:11 GMT
> I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
> acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> has anyone had similar experiences? please share how you have dealt
> with this.

Well, it's hard to say without knowing your full history. It affects people
differently for different reasons. Some people are sugar addicts or just
binge on everything. You need to examine yourself by using the tools to
identify the scope of the disorder if you do have it, as below.

I was a compulsive binger for many years. I stopped it with the
self-counseling (as in working out childhood issues), reading books,
changing my diet (less refined carbs, more good fats and protein), and
exercising. My biggest trigger was refined carbs (cakes, candy, ice cream,
pies, bread, rice, etc.). I believe compulsive binging is a combination of
unresolved issues, poor coping skills, and an imbalanced diet for your own
body chemistry.

Once you decide you want to stop and work on yourself, it can take a while
to get this under control (as in resetting your brain chemistry), but just
hang in there, don't give up, and do the work. Surround yourself with
support if you need it, and pursue good books about this disorder. Learn to
identify your moods and set yourself up to do other things. If you get
bored, go for a walk or do something you might enjoy doing. Sounds
simplistic, doesn't it, but you have to learn to shift to doing other
non-eating activities when your emotions step in. Also, analyze your diet,
which I believe is one of the binging factors.

It does get easier in time, and this disorder can be controlled with the
right tools. I didn't think I could ever control it after 25 years since 5
years old, but my problem at the time was the lack of education and tools.
No one knew much about eating disorders then.

My favorite book is The Sugar Addict's Total Recovery Program. While you may
not be a sugar addict and do not wish to implement this diet, it discusses
brain chemistry and how it's affected by a chemical imbalance as in diet or
poor environment (having friends boosts your endorphin levels, for example;
or having a highly dysfunctional family drastically alters your stress
hormone levels that drives you to cope with food or drugs), and how it in
turn drives your behavior. It's worthwhile to read about this part. It may
be available at the library near you.
Ignoramus8862 - 31 Oct 2005 16:24 GMT
>> I feel like I am a compulsive overeater. I know there's a "fat
>> acceptance" newsgroup, but I don't feel as though I am fat (probably
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> turn drives your behavior. It's worthwhile to read about this part. It may
> be available at the library near you.

That was a very interesting personal story. Thank you.
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