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Weight Loss Forum / General Topics / August 2006Is it me...
Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? Back to school time? Sheesh Will~ > Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? > > Back to school time? > > Sheesh > Will~ I dont know if you are specifically refering to me or not but I suspect I may be one of the perpetrators. I certainly have not intended to offend and I appologise if I have but I honestly cant beleive that there are people posting here that intend to lose weight and then maintain that loss without excercise. I find that alone staggering in such a group and I would expect most people to know better. But hey, to each their own I guess. I will however continue to preach that a combination of diet and exercise are key. >>Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I dont know if you are specifically refering to me or not but I suspect > I may be one of the perpetrators. No, she doesn't mean you. There was an article in Women's World that mentioned a link that lands here and it's caused a bunch of newbies to show up briefly as well as an onslaught of spam. > I certainly have not intended to > offend and I appologise if I have but I honestly cant beleive that > there are people posting here that intend to lose weight and then > maintain that loss without excercise. Beeswing has always held that unique position. It's not impossible to do and that's why she keeps mentioning it. It's just HARDER to do and not as good for you, but do-able nonetheless. Sort of. But it's her experience and it seems fair enough that someone with different experiences should chime in when the occasion arises to mention it. > I find that alone staggering in > such a group and I would expect most people to know better. Be careful who you call an idiot. It might be you. > But hey, to each their own I guess. I will however continue to preach > that a combination of diet and exercise are key. "Preach" is certainly the right word. I preach the same religion. But belief/faith isn't the same as math/science. She's right in a mathematical sense. If you eat less you'll lose weight. Dally 244/168/155 > > I certainly have not intended to > > offend and I appologise if I have but I honestly cant beleive that [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Dally > 244/168/155 Thanks, Dally. Have I told you lately how good it is to see you? :) beeswing >> I certainly have not intended to >> offend and I appologise if I have but I honestly cant beleive that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >experience and it seems fair enough that someone with different >experiences should chime in when the occasion arises to mention it. I have to chime in here and say I'm quite sure Beeswing's position is not unique, if you're using the word literally. I for one have said several times here that I have no evidence that whether or not I exercise has any impact on my ability to lose weight, or the rate at which I lose it. For me, I'd rate the relative importance as something like 95% diet and 5% exercise at the most in terms of weight loss alone. I have also always said that I acknowledge the tremendous importance of exercise for all sorts of other reasons, especially as you get older and I do follow an active lifestyle, mainly because I love walking and I also believe in taking other measures to maintain my fitness in specific areas. But there have been periods when I've been unable to exercise and have still lost weight easily by managing my food intake. I also acknowledge there is a debate about losing fat vs losing muscle which I'm not going to reopen here. Perhaps I'm unique too:) janice > But there have been periods when I've > been unable to exercise and have still lost weight easily by managing > my food intake. > > I also acknowledge there is a debate about losing fat vs losing muscle > which I'm not going to reopen here. Managing your food intake is the most important thing because you burn calories whether you pump iron or watch TV all day long. As long as your intake is less that your output you will lose weight. Many low-carbers feel muscle loss is not as great with the higher amount or protein they eat. I don't know if that's true. I haven't looked for any studies on it and now lack faith in some of the studies anyway since the HRT (breast cancer) information came to light. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 155 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== >> Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But hey, to each their own I guess. I will however continue to preach > that a combination of diet and exercise are key. I don't believe it's in reference to you though I could be wrong. You aren't the first and probably won't be the last to go round and round with an idiot.  Signaturethe volleyballchick > I don't believe it's in reference to you though I could be wrong. You > aren't the first and probably won't be the last to go round and round with > an idiot. > -- > the volleyballchick Hope you're not suggesting I'm an idiot. I'm actually too bright for my own good. ;) beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > beeswing Absolutely not referring to you dear. You're very well able to understand the choices you make aren't always optimal as are most of us. You also aren't really a drama queen though I guess if you practiced a bit you could try if that would make you happy! You and I have gone round in the past on certain issues and it's always been a pleasure to discuss them with you as opposed to others who just know it all and exaggerate everything said. Signaturethe volleyballchick > > Hope you're not suggesting I'm an idiot. I'm actually too bright for my > > own good. ;) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > the volleyballchick What a relief! Although I could polish up my drama queen skills, if you truly want me to. :) I think part of the reason I wanted to jump into that other thread is to be a temperate voice for an unpopular viewpoint. If that makes any sense. beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > beeswing Sure it does. There's a difference between a temperate voice and a hyperbolic moron. You're able to express your POV while still validating the opposite side. It makes a world of difference. Signaturethe volleyballchick > > Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But hey, to each their own I guess. I will however continue to preach > that a combination of diet and exercise are key. I don't know that you are specifically referring to me -- but I will continue to ignore people who "preach." I know what worked for me as much as you know what works for you...I'd never have the presumption to tell you what you "have to" do to lose weight and maintain a weight loss when it runs counter to your own experience. Some people got mad at me last time when I was here because I was vocal about the fact that I wasn't choosing to exercise past doing a bit more walking or biking around a schoolyard occasionally or sometimes going to yoga. They kept telling me that I couldn't lose weight that way...even as I was doing it. And they told me I couldn't maintain it that way...and then two years past, and I hadn't gained it back. As you pointed out elsewhere, I did indeed eventually gain some of the weight back, but exercisers can do the same. My highest weight this time was still 20 pounds less than my top weight before, and I am starting to lose again. I don't feel any need to convince you as to my approach; I'll even agree that your way is healthiest. But it does tick me off when people say "It can't be done." It can be done. And for some people who absolutely won't exercise no matter how much you or people like you preach, it seems preferable to being overweight. It's not necessary that you understand that. I don't understand people who enjoy exercise, either. I haven't disparaged you or your approach. Could you please consider treating me with the same respect? Thanks. beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Thanks. I dont believe at any point I have treated you with any degree of disrespect, I donk know you for a start and I certainly appologise if offence was taken. I've also never stated that you cant lose weight without excercise, tho opposite is true, repeatedly, today. I know you can, I did. Excercise helps the weightloss sure but I believe where it becomes vital is the maintenance. You just have to give yourself an ongoing challenge or I find old habits would be far too easy to fall back into. I have no intention of going through the rest of my life one glass of wine (or piece of cake, whatever) away from gaining weight. We produce some of the best reds in the world down here and I aint missing out on them :) For me life is too short to spend it obsesively counting calories. If it works for you I'm glad but personally I'd rather take a more holistic approach. Again, I appologise if I caused offence, none was intended and I wish you all the best. > Again, I appologise if I caused offence, none was intended and I wish > you all the best. Phew. ;-) Dally > > Again, I appologise if I caused offence, none was intended and I wish > > you all the best. > > Phew. ;-) > > Dally So, did you buy that? ;) beeswing > I dont believe at any point I have treated you with any degree of > disrespect, Um, it was "staggering" to you that people such as me could believe as I do and you "would expect most people to know better." That's pretty disrespectful. >I donk know you for a start and I certainly appologise if offence was taken Thanks for apologizing. As far as I'm concerned, enough about this. Thanks. beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > beeswing Way to take an apology! Wasnt intended to be disrespectful but I stand by every word. > > x-no-archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Way to take an apology! Wasnt intended to be disrespectful but I stand > by every word. So which words are you standing by? The apology, or the words that I'd taken some offense at? I wasn't meaning to be rude in my response, I just thought it was pretty clear why I might have felt disrespected...but apparently you couldn't see that, so I felt it worth letting you know. I shouldn't have posted the reply I did to Dally, though, and I'm sorry for that. I got hung up on your saying that you didn't see how you could have given offense...and posted that without really thinking enough. I actually appreciated the apology. But not if you didn't mean it. I really want to move on, now. beeswing > got hung up on your saying that you didn't see how you could have given > offense...and posted that without really thinking enough. Rereading your apology post, you said that you meant no offense, not that you didn't see how you could have given any. I should have taken you at face value unstead of reacted. As I said, I'm sorry. beeswing Well said :o) I don't think your approach would work for me, I'm loving working out.. and huh... loving food a little too much *grin* To each our own. The idea that you have to be an "athlete" to maintain weight loss is ridiculous. You do have to move some, which you're doing (walking and biking are awesome activity). Will~ who will keep working out to make up for the "occasionnal blueberry muffin.. ;op > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > beeswing > I don't know that you are specifically referring to me -- but I will > continue to ignore people who "preach." I know what worked for me as > much as you know what works for you...I'd never have the presumption to > tell you what you "have to" do to lose weight and maintain a weight > loss when it runs counter to your own experience. But you will find there are people on this NG who do PREACH as gospel that only those who work-out can lose and maintain weight-loss. If someone disagrees with their beliefs and preachings they're called idiots. > Some people got mad at me last time when I was here because I was vocal > about the fact that I wasn't choosing to exercise past doing a bit more > walking or biking around a schoolyard occasionally or sometimes going > to yoga. They kept telling me that I couldn't lose weight that > way...even as I was doing it. And they told me I couldn't maintain it > that way...and then two years past, and I hadn't gained it back. I'm surprised they're not calling you a liar and an idiot. :-D I just lost 15 lbs with nothing more than my usual house and yard work plus walking 2 miles 6 times a week. No gyms or fitness-training involved. If I didn't do the treadmill I'd still lose weight but slower. Or I'd eat even less to maintain the loss. > As you pointed out elsewhere, I did indeed eventually gain some of the > weight back, but exercisers can do the same. My highest weight this > time was still 20 pounds less than my top weight before, and I am > starting to lose again. I don't feel any need to convince you as to my > approach; I'll even agree that your way is healthiest. But it does tick > me off when people say "It can't be done." It can be done. That's what ticks me off as well. It's as if they're preaching their fitness/resistance -training as gospel truth - that unless one does as THEY DO they will fail to lose and maintain the losses. And for some > people who absolutely won't exercise no matter how much you or people > like you preach, it seems preferable to being overweight. It's not > necessary that you understand that. I don't understand people who enjoy > exercise, either. BRAVO! Many people find working out to be a terrible monotonous bore. > I haven't disparaged you or your approach. Could you please consider > treating me with the same respect? There is no need for anyone to disparage the fitness-enthusiast's approach for them to start insulting people and calling them idiots. Never mind the "idiots" are losing weight without working out like they are. It's a bummer how they insult and degrade people who disagree with them and surly drive many off the NG who are looking for support and not insults. I would think those into fitness and endurance training would seek that kind of NG, not a diet NG. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 155.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== > But you will find there are people on this NG who do PREACH as gospel > that only those who work-out can lose and maintain weight-loss. If > someone disagrees with their beliefs and preachings they're called idiots. You're conflating "lose weight" with "be well". I absolutely preach that you need to exercise your body to maintain wellness. Fat maintenance is part of it, but not the main part. If you're fat you probably need exercise more than most people, and if you're elderly you probably need exercise more than most people, and those are typically two groups that eschew exercise for poorly-informed reasons. > I just > lost 15 lbs with nothing more than my usual house and yard work plus > walking 2 miles 6 times a week. No gyms or fitness-training involved. Walking 2 miles most days of the week is more than Beeswing does and more than most Americans. Are you trying to argue that you weren't exercising? Or that it wasn't painful for you? No one is saying you should do drudgery. Quite the contrary, the sermon goes something like this: sports are fun, add some joy to your life. > If I didn't do the treadmill I'd still lose weight but slower. Or I'd > eat even less to maintain the loss. You are misinformed about the benefits and effects of exercise. I just had to go and google you - we've been over this before. I now remember that you are grasping firmly onto your ignorance so I won't trouble you further with facts, cites or sources. > That's what ticks me off as well. It's as if they're preaching their > fitness/resistance -training as gospel truth - that unless one does as > THEY DO they will fail to lose and maintain the losses. I just wanted to highlight this to make it easier to google for when you want to look back and laugh at your ignorance later. Do you recall the thread in which you asked people who had lost and maintained weight loss to raise their hands if they exercised? And, what, 100% did, right? Beeswing is THE ONLY ONE who claims not to exercise. Everyone else puts some effort into integrating movement into their lives. (And I have my doubts about Bees... sometimes it comes out that she walks an awful lot and does yoga fairly often. Looks like exercise to me.) > BRAVO! Many people find working out to be a terrible monotonous bore. I refer to your chosen form of exercise as a "dreadmill". Perhaps it's not movement of your body that is boring, it's the way you CHOOSE to move your body. It sounds like you're suffering from a failure of imagination. > There is no need for anyone to disparage the fitness-enthusiast's > approach for them to start insulting people and calling them idiots. I'm not calling you an idiot because you don't want to work out, I'm calling you an idiot because you keep maintaining that there aren't any significant benefits of working out. Idiocy seems like a pretty good working hypothesis for your inability to integrate new information. > Never mind the "idiots" are losing weight without working out like they > are. It's a bummer how they insult and degrade people who disagree with > them and surly drive many off the NG who are looking for support and not > insults. I would think those into fitness and endurance training would > seek that kind of NG, not a diet NG. I'm not in a diet newsgroup. HTH. Dally >> But you will find there are people on this NG who do PREACH as gospel >> that only those who work-out can lose and maintain weight-loss. If >> someone disagrees with their beliefs and preachings they're called >> idiots. > > You're conflating "lose weight" with "be well". I think you realize that everyone knows weigh loss and wellness are not the same thing. Not all overweight people are "unwell." Or will you now claim everyone you knew who was obese/overweight is/was sickly? Let's not play mind-reader here. I absolutely preach > that you need to exercise your body to maintain wellness. Fat maintenance > is part of it, but not the main part. I don't work out and I am *well*, as are millions of other people, some doing less exercise than I do each day. > If you're fat you probably need exercise more than most people, and if > you're elderly you probably need exercise more than most people, and those > are typically two groups that eschew exercise for poorly-informed reasons. Poorly informed? You can't seem to accept that some people find work-outs, gyms, biking and treadmills boring or just "not their thing." They don't avoid these things because they think they wont do good. Many people also have health conditions that make fitness training all but impossible, or at the least painful. Some have arthritis. Some suffered an injury as I did. Some just don't have the mental makeup to do repetitious, mindless boring workouts. >> I just lost 15 lbs with nothing more than my usual house and yard work >> plus walking 2 miles 6 times a week. No gyms or fitness-training >> involved. > Walking 2 miles most days of the week is more than Beeswing does and more > than most Americans. Are you trying to argue that you weren't exercising? Did I say I wasn't exercising anywhere? I don't do all this Fitness/resistance/endurance training talked abut here. Or that it wasn't painful for you? No one is saying you > should do drudgery. Quite the contrary, the sermon goes something like > this: sports are fun, add some joy to your life. Sports are FUN if you like sports. Some of us despise sports or at the least have no interest in sports. >> If I didn't do the treadmill I'd still lose weight but slower. Or I'd >> eat even less to maintain the loss. > You are misinformed about the benefits and effects of exercise. You are misinformed that one needs do exercise to lose weight and maintain the loss. I just > had to go and google you - we've been over this before. I now remember > that you are grasping firmly onto your ignorance so I won't trouble you > further with facts, cites or sources. There is no ignorance involved. Working out is not necessary to lose weigh or maintain weight loss. >> That's what ticks me off as well. It's as if they're preaching their >> fitness/resistance -training as gospel truth - that unless one does as >> THEY DO they will fail to lose and maintain the losses. > I just wanted to highlight this to make it easier to google for when you > want to look back and laugh at your ignorance later. The ignorance is all yours. People lose weight all the time and never touch a barbell or walk further than the car in their driveway. Do you recall the > thread in which you asked people who had lost and maintained weight loss > to raise their hands if they exercised? And, what, 100% did, right? I don't recall the thread or what group it was asked on. What is the message ID? > Beeswing is THE ONLY ONE who claims not to exercise. Everyone else puts > some effort into integrating movement into their lives. (And I have my > doubts about Bees... sometimes it comes out that she walks an awful lot > and does yoga fairly often. Looks like exercise to me.) Well lets be realistic. How many people actually SIT and do no exercise at all during their waking hours? And what % of people do fitness training? >> BRAVO! Many people find working out to be a terrible monotonous bore. > I refer to your chosen form of exercise as a "dreadmill". Perhaps it's > not movement of your body that is boring, it's the way you CHOOSE to move > your body. It sounds like you're suffering from a failure of imagination. Of course!!! Geeze.... It never crossed my mind to do the repetitious and boring machines and weights! You know, the SAME old exercises every day. Tell us how imaginative and how much FUN it is to lift those same weights, day after day, month after month.... year after year....... that sure takes imagination!!!!! :-D >> There is no need for anyone to disparage the fitness-enthusiast's >> approach for them to start insulting people and calling them idiots. > I'm not calling you an idiot because you don't want to work out, I'm > calling you an idiot because you keep maintaining that there aren't any > significant benefits of working out. Where did I claim there were *no one* benefits? I didn't benefit. The women who started with me that January found no benefit. Maybe to you you benefited. I never said you didn't. Idiocy seems like a pretty good > working hypothesis for your inability to integrate new information. See? More insults because you lack reading comprehension. You can't accept the fact that what worked for you didn't work for someone else. >> Never mind the "idiots" are losing weight without working out like they >> are. It's a bummer how they insult and degrade people who disagree with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm not in a diet newsgroup. HTH. You're not? What does alt.support.diet mean? LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 155.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== snip. snip. snip. I think it's really coming down to semantics: organized, planned exercise versus real-life "work" as "exercise." My father never understood why I lifted weights when I could get the same workout cutting and stacking firewood. "Anytime you wanna exercise (lift weights), come on over," he'd say. Now, I didn't disagree with him, and I do a fair amount of woodcutting for my cabin. However, I consider going to the gym, lifting or running, logging my exercise, comparing my workout figures, and challenging myself to lift heavier or do more reps or run farther next time "exercise." I love to garden, and do all of the cutting, digging, hauling, and turning myself--no rototiller, no "man"power. But it doesn't compute to me as actual "exercise," because I consider it "work." Just like cutting wood and gardening, housework and other chores to my pea-brain are "work." I love to hike in the woods and cross country ski and snowshoe. These activities are exercise. They burn calories. They make me fit. They increase my quality of life. But I view them differently than I do "organized, planned" exercise. So, I don't think anybody has been advocating being a couch-potato, nor do I think anybody has insisted that one needs to be a world-class athlete. I think a few ill-constructed, misinterpreted responses have set off this on-going battle and it's getting really old. Amy 168/117/... > So, I don't think anybody has been advocating being a couch-potato, My 11-year-old daughter taught me a new phrase a while ago: mouse potato. It's like being a couch potato, only a mouse potato is hooked on using the computer. For some reason, I get a kick out of the term. (Hey, don't look at me -- I use a trackball! ;) ) beeswing > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > beeswing HEY! I have two of those at home!! My DH keeps threatening to throw the laptop out the window. Thank God school starts soon. Amy > snip. snip. snip. > > I think it's really coming down to semantics: organized, planned > exercise versus real-life "work" as "exercise." Could be. I get plenty of exercise pushing the mower every week, housework, lugging shopping bags up the porch, on my treadmill, bringing in firewood all winter, turning the compost pile etc. Most people can't afford a life of leisure. > My father never understood why I lifted weights when I could get the > same workout cutting and stacking firewood. "Anytime you wanna exercise [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > myself to lift heavier or do more reps or run farther next time > "exercise." I understand. To you it's a challenge. It's fun. It may even be part of your social life at this point. And there's not a thing wrong with that. > I love to garden, and do all of the cutting, digging, hauling, and > turning myself--no rototiller, no "man"power. But it doesn't compute to > me as actual "exercise," because I consider it "work." Just like cutting > wood and gardening, housework and other chores to my pea-brain are > "work." But that "work" is exercise. You're using your muscles. I know I came to see the gym were I went as a torture chamber. To add insult to injury although I got stronger physically - I looked exactly the same after all those torturous months of mind numbing workouts. I didn't even drop one size. I ended up needing x-rays for joint pain. And to top it off, lost not one pound. I didn't feel any better either so it was pointless for me to continue. > I love to hike in the woods and cross country ski and snowshoe. These > activities are exercise. They burn calories. They make me fit. They [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > athlete. I think a few ill-constructed, misinterpreted responses have > set off this on-going battle and it's getting really old. AMEN!!!!!!!! LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 155.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== > Beeswing is THE ONLY ONE who claims not to exercise. Everyone else puts > some effort into integrating movement into their lives. (And I have my > doubts about Bees... sometimes it comes out that she walks an awful lot > and does yoga fairly often. Looks like exercise to me.) I know it really frustrates or confounds some people, but I really *don't* exercise. The only walking I've done this summer is in from the parking lot for my job, and that wasn't very far. I just started a new position, and one of the "advantages" is that the parking lot is a fair piece further away than in my previous position (and I don't pass by the cafeteria on the way in!) -- that should help. And I think I've been to yoga maybe three times all summer. (I used to go at least once a week, but, unfortunately, I fell out of that habit a long time ago. Since I enjoyed it, that's one thing I may take up again, after the yoga studio is through with their summer break.) It's actually appalling how little exercise I do. I'm not proud of it, but at least I'm honest about it. ;) beeswing You didn't have to prove my point... Will~ >> I don't know that you are specifically referring to me -- but I will >> continue to ignore people who "preach." I know what worked for me as [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > they don't do it very often. > =================================== > I don't know that you are specifically referring to me -- > beeswing Not you, bees. > > Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But hey, to each their own I guess. I will however continue to preach > that a combination of diet and exercise are key. Not you. Amy 168/117/... > Or are we having a lot of stupidity going around here suddently? > > Back to school time? > > Sheesh > Will~ It's not you. Signaturethe volleyballchick |
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